Foreign laborers hit hard by downturn in Japanese economy

Thursday 23rd October, 07:58 PM JST

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nigelboy at 02:30 PM JST - 24th October

This is nothing more than a mere reflection of continued racist attitudes by the Japanese. Put simply, they could hire these foreign workers directly at a 20% savings to their company. Cut out the dispatch agencies that send these workers to various sites and hire them on as full time staff. As new-hires most of these workers will work for lower wages from the outset. Time for Japan to stop the racism, get rid of their dead wood in their companies, and hire qualified people to do the job... no matter what nationality !

Another pathetic attempt to bring the race issue to this article.

First of all, where did you get this 20% savings crap? Second, what makes you so sure that the Japanese won't work at lower wages from the outset? There are over a million Japanese who are classified as Day workers (日雇い）and I'm quite positive that they will work for lower wages if they are offered as a full time staff. And these people can't "abandon Japan amid the troubles and cash in".
boobug at 03:58 PM JST - 24th October

"where did you get this 20% savings crap?"

Lemme guess, you think dispatch agencies work for free ? Cut them out completely and you still have enough left over to pay pensions (which most dispatch agencies don't) and insurance.

"Second, what makes you so sure that the Japanese won't work at lower wages from the outset?"

Because these are the same Japanese that shun the "3 K" jobs ! And again, you seem to be missing the point, the market should decide the value of these jobs... not a race/gender based archaic system like we see in Japan. Other industries, ex: foreign language teaching, has proven that foreigners from impoverished nations (the philippines, Indonesia, M.E. etc) will work for 1/2 the salary as a Japanese. I know, my office has hired up dozens of third worlders who will work for as low as 1,500 yen an hour ! The job to date has paid better than 3,500 yen an hour.

"There are over a million Japanese who are classified as Day workers (日雇い）and I'm quite positive that they will work for lower wages if they are offered as a full time staff."

Really ? How do you explain all the job hopping freeters ? NEETS ? Hikikomori ?

All of these individuals either quit a job in search of a better paying one, or have given up all together ! Talk about "abandonment and cashing in" ! A nation of quitters if you ask me !

As for race, well... I guess you weren't here when the Japanese government stated that foreign nationals will never be in positions of management where the subordinate is Japanese ! That was the beginning of Japans "nusring" crisis, and we see where "that" racist attitude got them ! Sorry, there are just too many examples and I don't want to get too far off topic. The fact is Japan's racist attitudes and xenophobic attitudes is the main reason for its problems with labor shortages !
nigelboy at 04:33 PM JST - 24th October

Lemme guess, you think dispatch agencies work for free ? Cut them out completely and you still have enough left over to pay pensions (which most dispatch agencies don't) and insurance.

Utter garbage. Your argument works only if there are no costs involved when a company does exactly what these dispatch agencies do.

"Because these are the same Japanese that shun the "3 K" jobs !

So according to your logic a small struggling company will hire a Japanese at a higher wage "3K" than a foreigner that will work for 1,500 yen/hr. Yep.

Why do people like you always come up with off the wall absurd claims?

Really ? How do you explain all the job hopping freeters ? NEETS ? Hikikomori

What about them? NEETS/Hikikkomori are not part of the labor force and are not included in the （日雇い）category. Focus now.

The fact is Japan's racist attitudes and xenophobic attitudes is the main reason for its problems with labor shortages !

Labor shortage? Hello?? McFLY?? Hello? Read the article.
boobug at 05:54 PM JST - 24th October

Poor nigelboy, dude has obviously bought into the misinformation so rampantly dispersed here at these so-called "news and discussion" sites. So if I may,

"Your argument works only if there are no costs involved when a company does exactly what these dispatch agencies do."

Wrong ! Dispatch agencies are nothing more than a middle man. Common sense surely dictates that direct contractual agreements are going to be much cheaper for any company that is actively hiring ! Heres the scenerio, as is a dispatch agency charges 10,000 yen an hour for dispatching a worker. 3,000 yen goes to the worker, the agency takes the rest. The agency doesn't bother to make pension payments or insurance because they claim the dispatched individual is a "part-timer" with their firm. In this case, almost everyone loses ! The worker is underpaid, the government fails to get pension payments, insurance companys lose out, and the company receiving the laborer is paying way too much ! This is a common practice for many dispatch agencies and the leading cause of drastic increases with Japan's working poor ! What conmpanys should do, if they simply quit acting like racists, is to hire the individual at 4,000 yen an hour and take the remaining 6,000 for pensions, housing allowances, insurance premiums, etc. Now Nigelboy, I work in this industry, so trust me I know of what I speak.

"So according to your logic a small struggling company will hire a Japanese at a higher wage "3K" than a foreigner that will work for 1,500 yen/hr. Yep."

Yep is right ! Have you bothered to check the numbers of bankruptcies in Japan the last 5 years ? Have you stopped to ask yourself why there is a nursing shortage in Japan ? Have you once tried to comprehend why Yoshinoya has gone to almost all Chinese staff in their Tokyo area shops ?

"What about them? NEETS/Hikikkomori are not part of the labor force and are not included in the （日雇い）category."

But they were part of the labor force ! Trying to ignore them now is irresponsible pie in the sky nonsense ! As is the vast majority of your post... McFly !
MASSWIPE at 07:30 PM JST - 24th October

"This is why "mass" immigration becomes a problem."

Well then, Nigelboy, why don't you tell this to the people at Keidanren? They are the ones (pure-blooded Japanese, through and through) who are pushing harder than anybody else for mass immigration in Japan. They don't have any confidence in the ability of indolent Japanese to get away from their Nintendo DSLs and do factory work. Do you?

You keep whining about people bringing race into this discussion. The entire Japanese immigration policy is based on race, akin to the White Australia policy. Why were unskilled laborers from Brazil with names like Sameshima made an exception to the rule and given Japanese work visas in the first place? Because such people have Japanese blood, and the Japanese establishment foolishly thought that that alone would assure their assimilation into society. You reap what you sow. Japan has brought these problems upon itself. It's time for a new policy in Tokyo.
nigelboy at 01:28 PM JST - 26th October

Wrong ! Dispatch agencies are nothing more than a middle man.

Common sense tells you that companies rely on these employment agencies simply because they can't be bothered with the cost/time required to advertise, screen, and process the potential applicants. To say that these agencies caused an increase in "Day jobs" is a lame argument. It's exactly the opposite. The demand for Hakken/Day Jobs are result of companies cutting down personnel costs for jobs that require no certification/qualifications and little educational background.

Yep is right ! Have you bothered to check the numbers of bankruptcies in Japan the last 5 years ? Have you stopped to ask yourself why there is a nursing shortage in Japan ? Have you once tried to comprehend why Yoshinoya has gone to almost all Chinese staff in their Tokyo area shops ?

Why does this pertain to the article above? The workers indicated in this article are almost exclusively non-certified individuals (not like the nurses) who's only qualifications are for manual labor. This is what we're talking about. To say that these small companies would prefer to hire a 3,000 yen/hr Japanese over a 1,500 yen/hr foreigners is ridiculous beyond hope. Your example is just the opposite. What they are doing is hiring foreigners over Japanese because of the lower wages (Yoshinoya). You're all over the place.

But they were part of the labor force ! Trying to ignore them now is irresponsible pie in the sky nonsense ! As is the vast majority of your post... McFly !

No They are "potential" labor force which is anyone over 15 years of age. What we're talking about here is the over a million Japanese "Day Job" workers who WOULD do virtually almost anything to become a full time staff. Hikkikomori/NEETS have no desire to work and are classfied as so separately under the MHLW classifications.

And again, the ultimate proof that you have no clue what you're ranting about.

"The fact is Japan's racist attitudes and xenophobic attitudes is the main reason for its problems with** labor shortages **!"

McFly?? Hello?? Is anybody in there????
nigelboy at 01:32 PM JST - 26th October

It's time for a new policy in Tokyo.

MASSWIPE.

That's what I said.

"This is why "mass" immigration becomes a problem"

They're great as a temporary basis but the economy turns sour, they become a burden. This is what the Western nations are facing.
nigelboy at 02:03 PM JST - 26th October

The entire Japanese immigration policy is based on race, akin to the White Australia policy. Why were unskilled laborers from Brazil with names like Sameshima made an exception to the rule and given Japanese work visas in the first place?

http://www.hanmoto.com/bd/isbn978-4-7503-1752-6.html

This is a book about comparisons of immigration policies thorughout the world.

Better Nikkeis than non-Nikkeis.
MASSWIPE at 09:40 PM JST - 26th October

"Better Nikkeis than non-Nikkeis."

Wrong again, Nigelboy. Rather, better to regard unskilled foreign laborers as human beings rather than just replaceable parts that can be discarded when a downturn occurs. Whether the foreign laborers have Japanese blood or not is far less important.

Again, contact Keidanren if you're so worked up about this issue. That organization is pushing harder than anybody else for mass immigration in Japan, because Japanese businesses want that cheap, exploitable foreign labor. For once, demand that Japanese take responsibility for their actions. Can you do it? Somehow I don't think so.
elbudamexicano at 11:28 PM JST - 26th October

What is KEIDANREN? I want to know more about this organization MAsswipe.
barfly08 at 06:30 PM JST - 28th October

Nigelboy, Huh ?

"The demand for Hakken/Day Jobs are result of companies cutting down personnel costs for jobs that require no certification/qualifications and little educational background."

Surely you jest ! The largest form of dispatched worker in Japan are language teachers... who must have university degrees !
barfly08 at 06:39 PM JST - 28th October

More huh ?

"To say that these small companies would prefer to hire a 3,000 yen/hr Japanese over a 1,500 yen/hr foreigners is ridiculous beyond hope. Your example is just the opposite. What they are doing is hiring foreigners over Japanese because of the lower wages (Yoshinoya). You're all over the place."

Seems to me that Boobugs point is that thousands of corporate bankruptcies and a falling nursing supply are both examples of how Japan refuses to hire cheaper foreign labor, to the point of economic and industrial suicide... I'd have to agree ! It seems that only recently Japan has made efforts to hire foreigners directly. I say dump all dispatch agencies and let the Japanese learn more about open and free competition in the job market, trust me taking out the middle man will be a boom for everyone, except the dispatch agency of course.
helloklitty at 07:31 AM JST - 30th October

gogogo says: Why is there a down turn in the economy? Look at the exchange rates today, doesn't seem there is any problem with the yen.

The strong yen exacerbates the downturn in the economy because it makes Japanese exports more expensive which hurts sales for Japanese companies.

The strong yen is good only for travelers going overseas.
barfly08 at 04:54 PM JST - 30th October

"The strong yen is good only for travelers going overseas."

Wrong ! It should be a boom time for any J entrepenuer that has the no-how to market quality American products. From GE to Proctor and Gamble, the shelves here should be flooded with stuff we Americans have grown to know and love !
nigelboy at 03:04 PM JST - 5th November

Wrong again, Nigelboy. Rather, better to regard unskilled foreign laborers as human beings rather than just replaceable parts that can be discarded when a downturn occurs. Whether the foreign laborers have Japanese blood or not is far less important.

Why is it "wrong"? Those that want to make Japan their permanent home will do so by educating themselves and thus transform themselves from becoming "unskilled" to "skilled". Those that are here "for the buck" are just as you said replaceable parts since "Some foreign laborers have abandoned Japan amid the troubles, especially those from Brazil, where the currency is plummeting and workers with savings in Japanese yen see an opportunity to cash in."