Thursday May 24, 2012

Japan refuses to stop Iranian oil imports

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  • -4

    Hide Suzuki

    YES!!! It's about time Japan stopped being a yes man to America.

  • 9

    Serrano

    Yes! Who cares if Iran is pursuing nuclear weapons - we need oil!

  • 1

    Hide Suzuki

    @Serrano, Yes we do need oil. So you think Iran will somehow give up on their neclear programs if Japan doesn't import oil from them ?

    Those are two completely different issues. If Japan stopped importing oil from them just because the US gov asked us, then it will just piss them off, more reason to continue their nuclear program.

  • 3

    some14some

    @Hide Suzuki: Then Japan should oppose sanctions against Iran.

  • 1

    Hide Suzuki

    @some14some, why ? We are neutral with Iran. They are just business partner, nothing more. We don't have to be like former US president Bush, "You are either with us or you are with the enemy". That was a stupid statement he made.

    If the US government wants Japan to stop importing oil from Iran, then the US needs to provide oil to japan at the same or lower price.

  • 4

    Nessie

    If the US government wants Japan to stop importing oil from Iran, then the US needs to provide oil to japan at the same or lower price.

    Hide, oil is fungible. You buy it on the world market and everyone pays pretty much the same price. Imagine if people bocotted Lawson. There might be a negligible increase in the price of nikuman, but everyone would be paying the same price.

  • -3

    soldave

    As long as you're business partners, it means you can stick your head in the sand to what they get up to outside of your agreement, apparently. I'd assume that's why there are such strong connections between corporations/government officials and the Yakuza in Japan.

  • -3

    Hide Suzuki

    @Nessie, thanks, that's good to know. But it still doesn't change the fact that they are two different issues. Do you guys actually think Iran will be like "Oh, Japan stopped importing oil from us, let's stop the nuclear program" ?

    North Korea isn't a rich country, and Japan doesn't buy oil from them but they have nuclear weapons. Iran will continue their research on nuclear weapons, whether Japan buys oil from them or not.

  • 4

    gaijinTechie

    Hell, even I would develop nuclear weapons if US and Israel threatened to use them against me. It's a hideous thing to say, but how many nukes have been used against people after the "enemy" also got their hands on one? Give everybody nukes, perhaps we'd finally get some peace... one way or another.

    Besides, this is just Irak all over again. You may shove the usual propaganda, show me Iran's nuke program of proofs of it, then I believe you. Not a second before.

  • 3

    Mirai Hayashi

    @Hide Suzuki

    The point is, with Japan's support, it makes it that much easier for Iran bolster their nuclear program, which further destabilizes the region. I would hardly think that Japan would want to be responsible (directly or indirectly) for causing further instability in the middle east. Japan has other options. They can oil from the Saudi's, or Russia. Choosing a nation that is run by a dictator, is not the way forward, not to mention that its bad diplomacy for Japan's business partners

  • 1

    HonestDictator

    @Hide they're pretty much right, no $$ from exporting oil= much less $$ for advancing nuclear technology or at least slowing it down. Less money equals less cash for materials, scientist paychecks, paying off information agents etc.

  • 0

    tkoind2

    "Give everybody nukes, perhaps we'd finally get some peace... one way or another."

    Spoken like someone too young to remember the cold war and living under the constant fear of nuclear holocaust. Idiotic does't begin to describe this idea as a political policy for the world.

    Look, I am not for war with Iran or N.Korea over nuclear weapons. But I am also not for either country, or any country for that matter, to have nuclear weapons. They are simply far too dangerous to the well being of humanity. And anyone who cares about any other human being should be on the same page.

    Let's say county A actually decides to use a nuclear weapon. The chances that country B or C will retaliate are high. Even a small exchange of nuclear madness would have profound consequences for nearly everyone in those nations as well as in neighboring states. And this is before we even begin to consider the risk of escallation.

    I do agree that we don't want an arms race in the ME leading to more nukes. The only way to avert that is to make sure Iran doesn't get them. War is not the answer, but economics can be. That is why it is important for the world to boycott Iran and press them economically to give up this plan.

  • -1

    kwatt

    There is no problem if the US gives much oil to Japan when it stops it from Iran.

  • 0

    Wolfpack

    The United States and European powers have sought to step up global pressure on Iran after the International Atomic Energy Agency, the U.N. nuclear watchdog, came its closest yet to accusing Iran of pursuing nuclear weapons.

    Maybe international cooperation isn't such a great idea; especially when a nation is starved of energy resources.

  • 0

    kurumazaka

    Mirai, Iran being run by a dictator is irrelevant. Compared to Saudi Arabia, Iran is downright liberal. The problem with doing business with Iran is what the revolutionary government intends to do with its earnings, namely export their version of Islamic revolution and establish regional dominance akin to the old Persian empire. Shia Iran has old scores to settle with the Saudis and the Sunni in general. The Saudis have stated publicly that they will go nuclear the moment Iran does. Gulf states are arming themselves to the teeth out of fear of Iran. Then of course there is that little "wipe Israel off the map" thing. There is real fear that Ahmadinejad genuinely believes that it is his duty to instigate the great war that will bring about the return of the Hidden Imam. I don't know if that is actually true or just tactical bluster, but if you actually listen to what the guy says,(just check out his various UN General Assembly speeches) you really don't want his country to become a great power. Unlike NK, which is primarily focused on preserving its own little uh, interesting, reality, the revolutionary government in Iran has real big ambitions that are pretty much bad news for everyone else. And because of the geographic realities of the region (it is called the Persian gulf for a reason) Iran does not have to become an actual super power to be able to cause real problems for the world at large.

  • -4

    smithinjapan

    Gotta love it; Japan kow-tows to the US and the Western world in imposing sanctions on Iran for their nuclear program but then turn around and ask them pretty-please for some oil. Maybe Iran should sanction Japan to send a message of the hypocrisy.

  • -1

    Mirai Hayashi

    Mirai, Iran being run by a dictator is irrelevant.

    I think its very relevant. Iran is suppose to be a democratic society ran by the people. The reality is that it is run by an illegitimate government that does not represent its people. Do you honestly think that that the citizens of Iran want the Iranian government to develop nukes and inhabit peace in that region?

    I'm not saying that Saudi Arabia or Russia are the best solutions to the problem. Those two countries have their fair share of their own issues. But at least they are not being ruled by an insane and illegitimate leader who has threatened time and time again to destroy its neighbors, and slaughter their own people. Until Arab spring has washed over Iran, I don't think any first world nation should have any dealings (business or otherwise) with Iran.

  • -2

    VicMOsaka

    Finally, Japan sticking up for it'self. I hope the other Japanese Companies like Hitachi honor their agreements that they made with Iran in the past. Japan, don't get sucked in with the American/Israel UANI propoganda organisation against Iran. Japan and Iran have had a good relationship, but then Japan does'nt boss them around and make warlike threats all the time. We don't necessarily like the middle east countries but we should leave them to their own devices whether they have nuclear weapons or not. Most every other developed ( or not ) country has them and no one talks about bombing them all the time. Iran already has had nuclear weapons for some time. Let's face it, they could have got them from Russia, Pakistan, North Korea, India at any time.

  • -2

    Waddi Andii

    Japan as a bigger Nuclear issue than Iran LOL It is also interesting that Japanese deported an Iranian father and abducted the daughter,

  • 2

    kaketama

    In the first place, it is the US that began to press forward with hostile policy against Iran, calling them "axis of evil" at 2002, despite the fact that Iran did not develop nuclear weapon at that time(they allowed IAEA to check up their institutions). How does a country protect themselves from the US? There is no choice but nuclear weapon. Considering the fact that Iraq was destroyed by the US even though they did not have mass-destruction weapons and that Pakistan and India, which have already developed nuclear weapons, have not faced such sanctions, it seems natural for Iran to try to gain power.

    Japan need not take part in the sanctions. I think this sanctions won't solve anything. Instead, I want to see Japan tell the US to abandon their hostile policy and then negotiate with Iran and other countries the US regards as "enemy". But I also think it will never happen.

  • -1

    kurumazaka

    Sorry Mirai, I think we are largely in agreement here. My point is that the problem is With the Iranian governments behavior, rather than its being dictatorial. There are far nastier dictatorships on this planet than Iran that are also far less dangerous. Rigged election aside, Iran does have representative government and Ahmadinejad himself has to answer to Religious authorities. He is not all powerful, having nothing remotely close to the authority of say, Saddam or the recently deceased Dear Leader.

  • -2

    Mirai Hayashi

    @VicMOsaka

    You really need to do a fact check because there are so many inaccuracies in your comments.

    Most every other developed ( or not ) country has them and no one talks about bombing them all the time 9 countries have nukes (that's hardly close to "most") US, UK, China, Israel, India, Pakistan, North Korea, France, and Russia.

    Iran already has had nuclear weapons for some time.

    Iran is not in the list, hence its not a good idea for Japan to fund them, because it could bring them closer to having them.

    Let's face it, they could have got them from Russia, Pakistan, North Korea, India at any time.

    I doubt that any of these nations are that tight with Iran, and if they were, it would be very difficult if not impossible for these countries to just "give" nukes to Iran without being detected.

    We don't necessarily like the middle east countries but we should leave them to their own devices whether they have nuclear weapons or not.

    Like we should leave North Korea to their devices right?....oh, I forgot, Japan's is within NK's nuke range so I guess we shouldn't...funny how we have different standards for different countries eh?

  • 0

    Mirai Hayashi

    this is my statement BTW, not a quote

    9 countries have nukes (that's hardly close to "most") US, UK, China, Israel, India, Pakistan, North Korea, France, and Russia.

  • 2

    WilliB

    Yes! Let Ahmedinejad have his bomb and wipe out Israel. Iran has oil, Israel has no oil. Money talks, morality walks. Japan´s government gets it.

  • 0

    JeremiahW

    @smithinjapan

    Maybe Iran should sanction Japan to send a message of the hypocrisy.

    Does Japan abduct Iranian hikers? I guess your argument is that they should. Not too bright.

  • 0

    psychopathsareincontrol

    uh oh - Japan disobeying the US - i would be expecting an 'accident' - nuclear or otherwise - to befall Japan as punishment

  • -3

    Foxie

    Wise choice there from Japan. Make friends not enemies.

  • -3

    Crystalyle

    Myself, YuriOtani; OkinawaMike; VoiceOfOkinawa together MIGHT welcome this move. I want Japan to show it's true colors as it has been all year long. The year is not over yet. We still have a week left.

    I really think it's time to dissolve America's relationship with this country. It is a failed mission. After WWII believing that Japan and the U.S would be strong together.

    It is simply Japan using the U.S. Gaining access to our technology. We blindly sell weapons to the very people who would use them against us.

    Howard Hughes provided the design for the Japanese Zero. Next thing you know, it's flying over Hawaii bombing Americans left and right.

    Now, Japan has these business deals with Iran. Japan knows that Iran would love to nuke the U.S. and we can see that Japan knowing that would gladly continue to financially support that.

    It's time for the facade to come down. Move American forces out of Japan and then we'll see who's really allied with who.

    BTW Foxie. My enemies enemy is my best weapon. Japan isn't making friends.

  • 0

    just-a-guy

    Wow! Japan could say 'NO" to America! Dont underestimate the DPJ!

  • 0

    kurumazaka

    Kaketama, US hostility to the present Iranian government dates back to 1979 when the US Embassy was stormed and it's staff held hostage for 444 days, which under pretty much any definition is an act of war. While i admit that the "Axis of Evil" speech wasnt helpful, don't even try to portray the revolutionary government as an innocent victim of US bullying. US congress does not begin its sessions with chants of "Death to Iran." The revolutionary government relishes being the enemy of the US and does not waste any opportunity to harm US interests. When Obama tried to be somewhat conciliatory, he got smacked upside the head for his efforts. Don't try to pretend that the revolutionary governIment has any interest in friendly relations without first having the US grovel at Khameni's feet and then hand the region over to Tehran. (that pretty much sums up Ahmadinejads response to Obamas overture) While there may on occasion be areas where some cooperation is possible, the fact is that the US stands between Iran and its regional ambitions, and the only thing that will satisfy Tehran is if the US gets the hell out of the way, which will never happen bar a complete collapse of the US or possibly the discovery of an alternative energy source that makes oil irrelevant.

  • 0

    Bartholomew Harte

    Good for them! The U.S. doen't need Oil from Iran & I don't hear Big Oil U.S.A. looking to help. Obama & Co. should Mind their own buisness ,Japan can do without their input on this!

  • 2

    Pigumon

    @ Hide Suzuki- You left out a very important detail, MONEY. "Not Supporting" a ban means, giving billions of dollars to Iran. That's all that really matters here. You're funding nuclear programs of nations that are crazy enough to use them. Japan waves its flag and claims to be so anti-nuclear weapons, but this is clearly supporting the production of nuclear weapons.

  • -3

    smithinjapan

    JeremiahW: But to be fair my argument was not at all about kidnapping (interesting you should bring that up when one of today's top stories is about Japan's kidnapping of children) but that if Japan can impose sanctions on Iran, why can't Iran on Japan? I'm not sure why you would resort to a kind of boolean logic.

  • 0

    sf2k

    With dwindling world oil supplies, crippling the 3rd largest economy isn't a bright idea in any case. Already the drums for more war are beating in America though. Intelligent foreign policy is unlikely to win out.

  • 8

    zichi

    You take your oil and energy imports from wherever you can get them regardless of whatever might be happening inside a country. America imports oil from Saudi while the "House of Saudi" is an evil empire.

    America over looks the human right abuses in Uzbekistan, because it needs the supply route into Afghanistan, especially with all the problems in Pakistan.

  • -1

    Hide Suzuki

    So while the US Government can have nuclear weapons but Iran can't ? Who decides what countries can and which ones can't have them ?
    One more thing, the US government started the war against Iraq, claiming that they had WMD=nuclear weapons, and turned out that they didn't.
    So we can't always trust what they say.

  • -1

    Hide Suzuki

    @Crystalyle "Move American forces out of Japan " I totally agree. You want them out of here, some of us don't want your soldiers. They should just leave.

  • 0

    spudmanreincarnated

    Hide: Agree with your last two comments. Genba should have asked the US to provide the oil that it (Japan) would give up, put the onus back on America to pay up if it wants to be the worlds police force.

  • 0

    Mirai Hayashi

    "Move American forces out of Japan " I totally agree. You want them out of here, some of us don't want your soldiers. They should just leave.

    You're forgetting that Japan has two neighbors that are wishing for this day to come so they can pounce. Japan is within striking distance of both NK and China. The only thing that's keeping them at bay is the presence of the US military.

    So while the US Government can have nuclear weapons but Iran can't ? Who decides what countries can and which ones can't have them ?

    Ideally, everyone should disarm, but that is easier said than done, and way besides the point of the argument. The question is, should Japan be buying oil from Iran who's agenda is to have a nuclear program in place. Japan really should seek fuel from less hostile nations that don't have a recent history of slaughtering their own people.

    One more thing, the US government started the war against Iraq, claiming that they had WMD=nuclear weapons, and turned out that they didn't.

    Yes and the US regrets the decision on one monkey-brained president and his war mongering administration.

  • -1

    lostrune2

    So what? The US isn't helping Japan with its North Korea issues. Let Iran and North Korea have their nuclear missiles. If Iran can have it, then so can North Korea.

  • -1

    zurcronium

    Economics comes first. Japan needs oil but does not need to embrace all US policies. Koizumi sucked up to bush when he illegally invaded Iraq and for nothing for it, but now the DPJ is a little smarter.

    So bush invaded iraq, which was no threat, and did not invade NK, which was and is a threat. Why, NK had nukes. Simple answer. Israel has nukes which the US helped to build. The US policy is all lies and PR. Its the pentagon again trying justify its trillion dollar budget of which half is pure graft.

  • 0

    oberst

    Agree or otherwise, Japan acts on her own national interest, just like China or other countries do things based on their national interests.............

  • 1

    WilliB

    kaketama:

    " In the first place, it is the US that began to press forward with hostile policy against Iran, calling them "axis of evil" at 2002, despite the fact that Iran did not develop nuclear weapon at that time(they allowed IAEA to check up their institutions) "

    You really should check your facts before commenting. Iran signed the NPT and has since continuously violated it. The IAEA inspectors were deceived for years, it was Iranian dissidents who revealed the degree of deception and the nuclear bomb program which went on under the noses of the IAEA. Iran has not only been developing nuclear weapons in secret, it has been developing them in direct violation of the treaties they signed.

  • 2

    Albert Lazzaris

    America have a serious problem with war addiction. Iran better smile to it's allies because they are going to need help. Oh dear American government, we need oil in Japan, if we stop buying from Iran, will you supply us with better deals?

  • 0

    villagehiker

    Japan needs oil. Get oil wherever you can make a good deal. End war through trade. Notice this is different from establishing peace through trade, which will never happen because of greed. But maybe trade can stop war. The lack of trade has certainly helped start wars. However, if Iran is building nuclear weapons, that needs to be stopped. Iran has no need for nukes. It would be nice to get rid ours, but as world police officers--a role most Americans don't like--we cannot do that yet. Maybe someday.

  • 0

    Tahoochi

    Beggars can't be choosers!

  • 0

    SuperLib

    Hide Suzuki: So while the US Government can have nuclear weapons but Iran can't ?

    Yep.

    Who decides what countries can and which ones can't have them ?

    The issue is generally looked at by people who actually consider the consequences of a nuclear Iran. If you take yourself out of that circle, that's your choice.

    One more thing, the US government started the war against Iraq, claiming that they had WMD=nuclear weapons, and turned out that they didn't. So we can't always trust what they say.

    Then trust everyone else who believes Iran is going nuclear, including those countries who did not support the US invasion of Iraq.

    If North Korea announced that they have built a nuke and have mastered the ability to drop it anywhere in Japan, would your first thought be, "Gosh, that's fair....can't complain"? I mean other countries have them why not North Korea? China has them and they can strike Japan, so I guess it's only fair the NK is able to do the same. It's only fair and two countries are two countries....nothing distinguishes them at all (apparently).

  • -1

    Hide Suzuki

    @SuperLib You didn't answer any of my questions, at least not with any logic, just your opinions. I don't want to trust, I would like to know facts.

    "If North Korea announced that they have built a nuke " NK already has nuclear weapons, so your example means nothing unfortunately.

  • 0

    issa1

    This is a bad choice but it is Minshuto.

  • -2

    Mirai Hayashi

    So while the US Government can have nuclear weapons but Iran can't ? Who decides what countries can and which ones can't have them ?

    I've already answered this question but here it is again:

    A nuclear Iran ran by an insane dictator, who has massacred his own people in recent history, and has stated that he is adamant about wiping out his neighbors, would destabilized the region. It would cause a nuclear arms of epic proportions, and many of these religious zealots have no issues in wiping out everyone including themselves to please the Picard (reference to an old Star Trek episode for those who didn't get it). You think that the US/USSR arms race was disastrous, give Iran a means to fund their nuclear weapons program and see what happens. At least with the US/USSR arms race, both countries realized that the outcome of a nuclear war would be disastrous. With Ahmadinejad, there is no telling what's going through his insane head.

    Secondly, nuclear countries should be moving to disarm, but with all of these countries getting their hand on WMDs, it always going to end in a stalemate. In my opinion, ANY country considering developing nuclear weapons program should be heavily sanctioned, any country that continue to bolster their WMD programs, and is not coming up with a road map to disarm should be sanctioned (including US, UK. France, Russia...etc)

    Back to the topic: Iran has make it clear that they want nukes. while at the same time openly express hatred for the US, Israel, UK and other countries. And for Japan to blindly fund a country with a dictator like that is EXTREMELY irresponsible. I think it was brought up earlier, but I think Japan would seriously change their tone if the US all of sudden decided to arm NK with F35 (for example). They would see it as a threat that would destabilize the region and perhaps even an act of war. Well, like-wise funding a very power hungry dictator with the means to destroy other countries can be perceived the same way.

  • 1

    villagehiker

    Beggars can't be choosers!

    But they can and should. Get the best deal. The best deal goes beyond quality and cost of product. America buys oil from Venezuela, a country with a leader who hates us. End war through trade.

  • 0

    Seiharinokaze

    Economic sanctions can lead to war. Japan knows it. Sanctions on the central bank of Iran that makes them unable to export oil and get paid is tantamount to the ultimatum. Notwithstanding Israel's nuclear development with or without its membership to NPT, the U.S. and U.K. seem to be only ready to go to war with Iran. Being a proud nation with a remote memory of conquering the ancient superpower Babylonia and arduous fervor for the manifestation of Imam, Iran may take up the gauntlet though stupidly. It's more than just a jump in oil prices and inflation worldwide. They may also aim to bail out the sovereign debt crisis in EU by wartime economy. Looks gloomy indeed. Japan might as well say to them that the inevitable war should not become a self-fulfilling prophesy. Heck, you can do without Megiddo. But actually what Japan can do is just being noncommittal by wriggling out of any undertaking.

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