Lexus crash inspectors point to possible flaw in gas pedal: LA Times

Monday 26th October, 10:10 AM JST

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societymike at 01:31 PM JST - 26th October

My father has an LS460, same setup, it's pretty easy to put into Neutral whether it's in "D" or the "manual mode". Also, our Vellfire has the exact shifter set-up, it too can be put into neutral easily.
Suzu1 at 01:42 PM JST - 26th October

The point is that it might not be so easy for someone to do when the car is in an uncontrolled state of acceleration in traffic. Who cares if you can shift to neutral in normal conditions?
Junnama at 01:43 PM JST - 26th October

Ah well, then no problem, right? Who needs a recall? Just shift it into neutral? What is all this complaining about?
ronaldk at 01:53 PM JST - 26th October

One question I have is why pressing the brake would not stop the car.
societymike at 02:21 PM JST - 26th October

Junnama at 01:43 PM JST - 26th October Ah well, then no problem, right? Who needs a recall? Just shift it into neutral? What is all this complaining about?

That's just silly. If you read my first post, I agreed, it was the pedal at fault. I was simply stating how avoidable this accident was if the driver didn't panic or had better training.
Junnama at 02:23 PM JST - 26th October

"That's just silly. If you read my first post, I agreed, it was the pedal at fault. I was simply stating how avoidable this accident was if the driver didn't panic or had better training."

I was indeed being silly!! Anyway, Toyota should be more careful or they will lose their #1 automaker crown. (Oh wait, already happened)
bamboohat at 02:49 PM JST - 26th October

Is this a recall that is remedied car by car? how many cars are we talking about?
Suzu1 at 03:25 PM JST - 26th October

One question I have is why pressing the brake would not stop the car.

When an engine goes to full throttle and is speeding at 120 mph, the brake might not stop the car. The ES 350 and most other modern vehicles are equipped with power-assisted brakes, which operate by drawing vacuum power from the engine. But when an engine opens to full throttle, the vacuum drops, and after one or two pumps of the brake pedal the power assist feature disappears. As a result, a driver would have to apply enormous pressure to the brake pedal to stop the car, and if the throttle was wide open might not be able to stop it at all. Indeed, a 2007 study by federal highway safety officials showed that braking distance and force on a Lexus ES 350 increased fivefold when the throttle was wide open. And evidence introduced in sudden acceleration trials suggests that it can take up to 225 pounds of pressure on a brake pedal to arrest a runaway vehicle, far more than most drivers can muster from a seated position.
Tahoochi at 06:38 PM JST - 26th October

As much as I am a fan of Toyota cars, I think there's more to this story than what is explained in this article. With that said, I think there are several potential causes of the August accident in California and other similar cases from pedal, engine, floor mat issues, to driver error, installation error, and freak accidents. "Unintended or Unintentional Acceleration" is an on-going debate/issue from long ago which doesn't just focus on Toyota cars, but other brands as well. There's a lot of info available on the web if you look for it.

Speaking from personal experience, about 8 years ago, I experienced unintended acceleration in my '97 Dodge Dakota pick-up truck in Canada. As I approached a stop sign and took my foot off of the gas pedal to brake, my engine starting to rev at about 3-4000 RPM. I put the car in neutral, stopped at the side of the road, and turned the engine off. To make a long story short, I found out there was a PINE CONE stuck in the throttle of my engine! Despite the freakish odds of something like that happening,..... it happened! ...To me! That's why I believe that it's hard to blame this problem on one cause, and even more difficult to find the exact cause for each case, including the August accident in California.

I must say though, that Toyota is in a bind on this one because there is a definite pattern on the make and model of several unintended acceleration cases in recent years.

Here are some sites regarding "Unintended Acceleration" that I found to be interesting:

http://www.usatoday.com/money/autos/2004-04-13-unintended-acceleration_x.htm

http://mfes.com/suddenaccel.html

http://autocoverup.com/#STS=g1919411.pzf
usaexpat at 11:25 PM JST - 26th October

All accelerator pedals can become ubstructed by the floormats I believe. This smells alot like the Audi 5000 unintended acceleration hysteria that nearly killed Audi in the 80s. Should be good news for other premium makes as Lexus is going to take a hit for this one.
isthistheend at 12:09 AM JST - 27th October

Interesting posts. What is ironic is that it was a police officer, and owner of another Lexus so he should have been cognizant of the 3-second push off button. While it sounds fishy that he wouldn't have responded to the dilemma by doing such a "basic" response, I think it the surprise and panic of his situation somehow jerked him out of common sense mode and he "forgot or disassociated from performing" a normal action. In this sense, it could be that all the bells and whistles of the Lexus works against it becoming a road standard. It appears that Lexus, with all its attention to making this car the highest standard possible, forgot a very key point to its success....requiring a special drivers training program making it mandatory to pass before stepping in and turning the key. Oh yes, that's right, they don't have to do that to start the car, right? In other words, lots of things are confusing in this level of auto. Its another case of convenience vs. true serviceability. Kind of like the internet and cell phones being the essence of convenience, but humanity somehow losing a bit of its heart and soul in the process.
Badsey at 05:07 AM JST - 27th October

this car performed fine until this driver encountered it = I still see no reason to blame the car. This man needs to stick to cars that are low-performance -until then he is just a danger to everyone on the roadways including himself (typical Cal Lib)
Tahoochi at 08:30 AM JST - 27th October

This man needs to stick to cars that are low-performance -until then he is just a danger to everyone on the roadways including himself (typical Cal Lib)

Badsey, I hear what you're saying but... the man that you refer to and his family are dead. You speak as though he were still alive.

But like I said, I understand what you are saying. I personally believe that anyone who drives a car should at least know basic emergency procedures SPECIFIC TO THE CAR THEY DRIVE, before they get on the road (ie. spare tire location, how to turn engine off, how to shift gears manually, how to use ABS properly, etc.)
Yelnats at 04:05 PM JST - 27th October

Couldn't they have side swiped a wall or something to stop the car or really slow it down or blow the tires? Were the occupants wearing seat belts? What about the front, rear and side air bags? This story does not give us full info.
Tahoochi at 04:47 PM JST - 27th October

Yelnats: Apparently, just a minute before the crash, one of the people in the car called 911 and said the car had no brakes, and that the accelerator was stuck. The car was going at over 120 mp/h (193 km/h) when it hit an SUV, then launched off an embankment, rolled repeatedly, and then burst into flames... google the story and you'll probably be able to find more details.

Seat belts? Air bags? Don't think they would've mattered. Side swiping a wall? This may have been doable, but at 190 km/h, pretty hard to just keep from hitting others cars. Maybe they couldn't make it to a wall, or there was no wall? The driver was a 20-year veteran of the California Highway Patrol. With all due respect to their family, I still think shifting to neutral would have been the rational thing to do.