Tattoos, rap and saggy pants

By Bruce Sallan

The journey from child, to teen, to young adult to parent seems to have similar stops along the way for most everyone. When I was in college, during the “age of stupidity,” as a man I greatly respect refers to the ‘60s and early ‘70s, as a love-child and soon-to-be yuppie, I was thoroughly convinced that I would be a different parent to any children I might have than my parents were to me.

Naturally, I had all the answers. My parents’ tastes in music, fashion, and politics, my Mom’s “helmet” style hair-do which required weekly visits to the hair salon, were all stupid, old-fashioned, and ugly. It was inconceivable to me that they didn’t dig or see how groovy The Doors, Janis Joplin, Jimi Hendrix, or The Stones were. The fact that most of them died of drug overdoses escaped me at the time (e.g. Brian Jones of The Stones in case you think I’ve missed something). The fact that Mick Jagger and his remaining crew still perform when our generation famously said not to trust anyone over 30 is also a lost irony on most of my AARP-aged contemporaries now.

So, when I became a parent, I was sure I’d appreciate and respect my children’s tastes because they’d probably just be the same as mine. I’d enjoy their music, their hairstyles, their fashions, etc. Of course, my brilliance and confidence about how I’d parent turned out to only be a repeat of my own parents’ experiences with me! As with most expectations, they disappoint.

First, there was rap. Then, tattoos and piercings. And, my favorite, wearing pants that fall down to the bottom of their butts. While my teen is not allowed to have tattoos, or piercings, he makes up for it by coming home with tattoo sleeves penned at school, in class, by various of his friends. (A tattoo sleeve, as the word sleeve implies, is a tattoo that covers the entire arm, up to the shoulder). Now, as a parent, we all know that we have to pick our battles and my teen son knows that tattoos and piercings are not going to happen in our house. In spite of it being against our religion, he’d love to have a tongue piercing, a death skull tattoo or, at the very least huge pierced earrings, as many of his teen friends have at ages as young as 14.

We all watch different screens, in our respective rooms or wherever they happen to be. They can watch movies on a 2-square-inch mobile device. Homework is done while multi-tasking, between texting friends, watching YouTube, and playing guitar. Ultra-violent and horrors movies are among their favorites; anything in black & white is unacceptable.

Watching my teen son pull up his pants to cover his boxers, non-stop, truly mystifies me. Is this really an inevitable part of life’s cycle? I suspect yes. There’s no doubt that parenting today has greater challenges than for my parents’ generation. When I was in elementary school, in the late ‘50s and early ‘60s, they could trust that I could walk to and from our nearby public school with total safety, that the music I’d listen to then (before the ‘60s began in earnest) would contain lyrics that wouldn’t corrupt my youthful ears, that the movies I’d go to would also have values and heroes and villains that reflected a traditional sense of right and wrong. We watched the same television shows together, as the three networks were our only option, so when The Beatles first appeared on Ed Sullivan, I put up with the opera singer, the Broadway singer, Topo Gigio, and the guy who spun the plates on a stick, before I finally got to see The Beatles and their shockingly long hair. But, even with The Beatles, occasionally my parents would appreciate them, like when Paul would sing a song like “Yesterday.”

As for my kids’ music, most of the band’s names alone make me crazy. I’m sorry, but it’s hard for me to appreciate songs by groups or singers called Napalm Death, T-Pain, Ol’ Dirty Bastard, and Cannibal Corpse with song titles such as “Crack A Bottle,” “Hammer Smashed Face,” “Evisceration Plague,” “Chopped ‘n’ Skrewed” and “Stanky Legg.”

What happened? I was supposed to be the hip parent where all my kids’ friends would confide in me, say to my boys “wow, your dad is so cool.” I’d play for them music that they’d never heard of and think it was so terrific, discuss classic movies and television, and have deep political conversations. Not a chance. I get the same rolled eyes and glazed over looks that I gave my parents. I guess it’s karma, it’s payback time, and it’s the inevitable generation gap.

Bruce Sallan has served as an independent television producer and an ABC Television executive. He has produced over 30 television movies, pilots and series, winning several industry and community awards, and was a regular contributor to high-profile entertainment industry journals such as Daily Variety. His column, “A DAD’S POINT-OF-VIEW,” primarily focuses on a father’s perspective on parenting. www.brucesallan.com.

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Latest 15 of 89 Total Comments Show All

sf2k at 07:10 AM JST - 31st August

Tattoos, rap and saggy pants throw in he sheer absurdity and ugliness of body piercings; society in devolution. The great race to the bottom and whoever it was that said; 'human history becomes more and more a race between education and catastrophe' had it right... By 'education' he or she wasn't talking about collecting pieces of paper either.

clowns in effect, for the clown society. scary but nonetheless just childish clueless clowns
AK619 at 08:57 AM JST - 31st August

@Biglittleman:

You can listen to the street ignorant preachers if you want, you don't seem to care about the badness it has contributed to society. Just because Rap didn't effect me and you like the flu, dosen't excuse the majority of thousands of men that are over flooding the prision system. You gotta have a crack pipe to smoke crack, just like you gotta have Rap mixed in with street gangs to create the big BOOM of crime thats still going on!

Bro, I highly doubt you been in the real streets, but you sound like a loyal follower of the "Rap cult preachers". Go ahead and keep your tattoos, saggy pants, and keep pretending to live the imaginary thug life in Japan.

At 30 you haven't dumped that man child rubbish yet? Man grow up! I'm out and moving on to do better things, and won't look back to ignorance. You gotta degree? Thats very good of you, how about doing something positive to help other poor blacks, instead of keeping them down by promoting Rap?

We do need some good Cops in the poor communities, think about it?
DenDon at 09:19 AM JST - 31st August

Readers, you continue to go around in circles.

this whole debate has and been going round in circles for centuries. the writer knew this but still wrote it and you chose to 'publish' it. focusing on the writer then I can only say he is hackneyed and naive. a television executive, hmmmm.
tkoind2 at 09:29 AM JST - 31st August

When I was a teen in skinny black jeans pointed shoes and dark eyeliner my parents were pretty worried. Gothic looked like something evil to them. To me it was rebellion against the beige conservative world I grew up in and a society that seemed to care only about money.

My niece and nephew now listen to bands that wear similar fashion but whose music I can't enjoy as much as old dark sounds. But their purpose has not really changed. They want to express their frustration and differentiate themselves like any previous generation. As long as it does not harm them, then let them enjoy it.

I have tattos that bring back good memories, piercings that remind me of long lost friends and times. I am no worst the wear for having been Goth for many years. I have a great job, good home, happy life and I managed to keep my creativity alive with music and my political and social values alive as well.

I am maybe more conservative personally. I hated rap when it started and still do today. But this is a matter of taste and not generations.

To the writer, if you don't "get" your kids behavior now, you probably won't, but you should do as my parents did. Allow them to express themselves through fashion and music. It is far better than restricting them and having them act out through more harmful means of expression.

As for your religion. If it is something true to them, they will come back to it in time. But for me and many of my generation, we saw the superstitious holdovers of ancient religions as one of the causes of the world's troubles and rejected it permanently. We did so in favor of new ideas. Ideas about peace, secular morality, responsibility to the world and people around us, compassion, empathy, love and hope. All without the instructions or threats of any dieties. In this we found hope for a future ruled by compassionate reason and not by superstitious belief.

Trust your children to learn from you, guide them, but let them be free to express as well. In the end they my surprise you in their ability to grow up into fine people.
nutsagain at 10:23 AM JST - 31st August

Trust your children to learn from you, guide them, but let them be free to express as well. In the end they my surprise you in their ability to grow up into fine people. Interesting ... this is the philosophy of A.S Neil and the Summer Hill school in the UK. A very hip educational institution in its day. An aquantaince went there and attended a school reunion some years ago. Her comments were interesting as I recall; "God, they absolutely ALL have problems. attempted suicides, multiple marriages, drug and alcohol dependancies" etc. Food for thought, I thought ...
tkoind2 at 10:37 AM JST - 31st August

Nutsagain. There are many factors that could be responsible for the reunion outcome. I did not attend, but my friends who went to our Catholic school reunion found similar results. I imagine that most school reunions have collections of people with problems. And the percentage probably has more to do with where they live and the environment they make their lives in than the highschool they went to.

The ills you listed I believe come from modern urban society where people feel disconnected, selfish, isolated and under constant pressure. Society wants everyone to be "normal" when in reality few people are. What we need is a society that accepts diversity and individuality and maybe people would grow up better adjusted instead of feeling like they have to conform or that they have failed to do so.
notimpressed at 03:45 PM JST - 31st August

Gmme a break .... music and fashion are means of self expression, be it positive, negative, or nonsense. The moment we deem our opinions on such things to be more relevant than the right of people to express themselves in whatever way they wish, is the moment we are living in fear and repression.

I'd rather someone express their negativity through audio-visual means than physical. Can some of the posters not see that perhaps the people who make such music, felt that way in the first place? Would you even know about it if it wasn't for the freedom of self expression that we all enjoy today? You don't have to like it, you just have to have options. Listen to the music and have no other sources of information to make your own decisions? Weak excuse for bad behaviour. Never mind the music, where are the parents and the teachers of the youth, praising them when they do well, and teaching them better ways when they do wrong. Humans have that inate ability to do what they will. You can't stop artforms without forcing them underground and making them more fascinating, so stop whining and enjoy what you enjoy, promote what you promote, forget the rest. I don't have to like someones music to have an intelligent conversation with them. POsters here arguing about thier street cred, but trying to blame music for bad attitudes have missed the point. It just shows a stubborn refusal to accept reason, and the need to find a scapegoat, rather than look at ones own self, or the underlying reasons of any problem. Seriously, try digging a little deeper.

BTW, the poster who said something about killing people after listening to system of a down, thats hilarious. Comedy at its best. They sing songs that are anti-war, and do not promote violence at all. You are mistaking your own inability to control your emotions while hearing a certain type of sound with actual reality. I personally find thier music quite upbeat and happy. I would not consider it hardcore at all. The teens can have it.

oh and the writers writings are just the frustrated ramblings of an old guy who got left behind in the development of current music and styles. It happens, the youth will always question thier elders, and when they dont its stagnation. The human race as a whole, as well as individuals, explore thier options, and make mistakes and success where they find them. We all learn and move on.

I personally like lots of musical genres, i like baggy pants, but not down around my butt, and i have tattoos with a cultural significance that may escape some, but thats ok, I dont have piercings because they creep me out, but i dont mind people who do. And if you dont like me, thats ok too. DOnt blame the music, I think the most negative music I listened to over the years, probably saved me from acting out on some of the frustrations of growing up if anything. All my mistakes were my own, not some artists, and when I changed my life for the better, it was of my own free will, and I still listen to the same music, if not a broader range of tastes than before. gee, that darned rap and heavy metal music didnt do a good job of screwing me up now did it. YOur fired!! wheres a new invisible demon to blame?
biglittleman at 05:13 PM JST - 31st August

@AK619,

Why you getting up set? You are suppose to be above all this. Yet, instead of addressing any of the comments I have made about Rap music. Now questioning my ghetto pass and all that nonsense. You have completely ignored anything I have said. You are now resorting to name calling. That is pretty sad player. And you are now making our people look bad. Once again grasping at straws!

Despite your years on the streets and your exposure to Rap you have learned very little from your experiences. All that anger you had as teen that got you caught up in streets has now been channeled at the one thing you blame for those experiences. Maybe you should blame the problems like bad parents, fathers, communities and the individuals for allowing our generation to get these problems. It seems you haven't really gotten rid of that anger. Now you want to be a police. It sounds like a bad combination. Cops with issues taking out on the public. I have experiencd that perosnally. You seem to have traded in your street preacher for another preacher. Which has taught you only hate and intolerance. At only have faith in whatever while throwing out common sense. You were the same person earlier talking about President Obama addressing the Black community. One point he made asking for the fathers to step up. That is one solution to the problems in our communities. Once again the symptom(Rap) isn't the same as the problem.(more deep rooted things other than rap)

I thought we going to have an opportunity to sincerely discus some issues without the bulls&%t. Unfortunately, I was wrong. :(

Step your game up player!
AK619 at 08:06 PM JST - 31st August

@Biglittleman:

You don't know me and thats getting off topic. I only tried to convince you to change your views regarding a topic on Rap music, however to no avail. Hey enjoy the tattoos, saggy pants, fake gold chain, and whatever else those ignorant fools preach to you about.

In addition, former gangsters that turn into police or security officers usually make better Cops then those that never grew up in the hood. I personally met some, they're a real positive example for the youth to look up to, because they been there.

As a grown man, I might be able to save a youth that needs a prestigous example, rather then a wanna be street punk. I'd say thats more positive then a grown ld man with tattoos, saggy pants, and a fake silver chain, who has an imagination that thug music is positive. Who do the youth have to look up to these days without parents, I guess grown men into gangster Rap with saggy pants?

I like the positive message that Obama is promoting, go back to school next year everybody! Good luck!
biglittleman at 06:29 AM JST - 1st September

@AK619

you say....

You don't know me and thats getting off topic.

Yet, you believe to know who I am. You should go back and read your posts. Everything you thought about me has been wrong. Your last several posts have been saying the same thing. Example, " You must not be from the hood." "You don't know what the thug life is like." Saggy pants, gold chains and tattoos are evil. So are sounding like a broken record a religious nut. Stop the preaching of intolerance. It closes your mind and you don't learn anything.

I only tried to convince you to change your views regarding a topic on Rap music, however to no avail.

You should actually stay on the topic. Actually address the comments I have made about Rap. Prove to me I am wrong. What was your response? AK619: I don't have to prove to you Rap music is bad. That is just silly. Another example of ignorance. How do you expect to convince youths about anything if you don't have logic and common sense to show them the right way. Kids aren't stupid and your lack of understanding in that is why folks are failing to get the message across.

You have ignored everything I have said. First, that shows your closed mindedness which leads to ignorance. Second, you have not tried to convince by using logic and common sense. You are trying to preach. Like, a religious nut. I challenge you to logically put an argument together about the dangers of rap. You are correct some of the best cops are those from the neighborhoods they patrol. That is only if they have learned from their experiences. They also know not to call the people they are trying to help ignorant fools and losers because their preferences in music are different.

I'd say thats more positive then a grown man with tattoos, saggy pants, and a fake silver chain,

Go ahead and keep your tattoos, saggy pants, and keep pretending to live the imaginary thug life in Japan.

It is getting old player! Like a broken record or lunatic. With that kind of thinking you won't help many people. It will be like the blind leading the blind.

You should know by now all Black folks don't dress that way and still listen to Rap. You should also know all rappers don't dress that way. Your generalizations about your own people shows you are out of touch. You actually sound like the Caucasian folks from the suburbs. Do I need to check your ghetto pass?

Moderator: Once again, we ask you to stay on topic please.
notimpressed at 09:32 AM JST - 1st September

biglittleman, that was your best response yet. Case closed.
BuddhismTech at 12:48 PM JST - 2nd September

The "Tattoos, rap and saggy pants" article is fairly interesting. But I greatly admire the comments below which are very educational and professional.

I want to say that I am so fortunate to be born deaf in America (white man), which that handicap of mine made it harder for me to be enticed and exposed by America's darker culture consisting of brainwashing music which often accommodated with violence, sex, and drugs. But tattooing is a different story. In 1980s, not so many Americans had tattoos. The tattooing fad actually began in 1990s, but slowly. In that decade, I started to see a few football players who had tattoos around their arms on TV. A few wonderful athletes, like Michael Jordan, had their ears pierced. Starting in the 21st century, owing to Internet and American mass media, tattooing was greatly popularized and encouraged. By now, so many women and men already have them. Astonishing phenomona!

Despite all of negative influences, which are evolving through time for more extreme and worse, are given to the American society, I don't have much trouble leading a normal life. Virtue is very important if you want your family to stay together in one piece. Even if an individual is only one, but possessing self-control, consideration, and patience, he can play a positive role and be inspirational to many other family members and even friends. True. We can't depend on the famous actors, actresses, athletes, musicians, singers, etc. for our well being, because we don't really know some actual aspects of their real lives.

Well, this article made me wanting to use Wikipedia to find an information about Japan's hip hop culture. Wikipedia said that it was influenced by African Americans. But this is a highly controversial subject which I would not go ahead to explain. This is an unfortunate fact.

If you want to know more about Japanese hip hop, just type "Japanese hip hop" on Wikipedia's search. It will get you to the article. Very intriguing, but warn you that it contains a link which leads to more controversial article. Warning: Not for sensitive people.
therealmusashi at 04:49 AM JST - 3rd September

Yep, trying to be the "hip parent" is exactly why your kid is doing all this retarded rebel crap. If you can get your kid to respect you, he will want to be like you and seek your approval. When I was growing up, even though I wanted to rebel against my parents, and didn't agree with them, I could look at Vince Neil and the idiots in Motley Crue, and then look at my Dad, tri-lingual, PhD in Physics, owned his own business and I could see which one was real, and which one was a stupid act.
Soochi at 12:29 AM JST - 5th September

Kids (young and old) have been thrashing out to Napalm Death for the best part of the last three decades - nothing generational about them whatsoever.
Soochi at 12:29 AM JST - 5th September

Kids (young and old) have been thrashing out to Napalm Death for the best part of the last three decades - nothing generational about them whatsoever.