Arrested American man says reclaiming his children 'not crime'

Thursday 08th October, 06:29 AM JST

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taj at 07:37 PM JST - 14th October

IF he goes to judge&jury (lay-judges) he could find that Japanese people will be very biased against a man who breaks up a family for his own pleasure. VERY big no-no. It's one thing to have your thing on the side, as long as you keep it discreet and remember where your duty lies. HUGE cultural difference. Very un-shacho-like as one 2Channer put it.
igotchu at 07:56 PM JST - 14th October

Taj, I like your sense of humor, we all need to take a break from this and let the tempers cool down. Peace.
Cicada at 08:57 PM JST - 14th October

LFRAgain:

You got all of that from a quote about him not wanting to practice medicine because he learned he wasn’t comfortable with being aroung sick people?

No, I arrived at my tentative conclusions based on all I've read, videoes watched, etc. You're free to disagree with my interpretations. Why the big fuss?

Actually, you are not being accurate with "he learned he wasn’t comfortable with being aroung sick people". The point is he was extremely uncomfortable because he is a severely afflicted hypochondriac. That is what he was saying. Being around patients aggravated his hypochondria. And he made these remarks in early August.

michaelqtodd:

Makes it even more bizarre that he could have been so stupid as to come over here and try to grab his kids on their way to school.This case is way too interesting.

Yes, indeed. The man is clearly brilliant, and yet there seems to be a dark side that overwhelmed him. His kidnapping actions make no sense from any angle. Some will say "desperation" but that is not explanation and is really another way of saying "mental instability" or some kind of breakdown.

Noriko's friends have described him as "troubled" and prone to sudden bursts intense anger.

I wonder if people think it is just coincidence that his mother died a week after he was born, and his father died when he was still a tyke. So he himself was not raised by his parents.

taj:

Will Cicada get custody full of the other posters attention? Or will LFRA and new spouse iGotchu win out?

I don't think either of them is adding anything to the discussion, but merely repeating their basic position of support for Chris. That's alright, but I'm trying to elaborate on some interpretation and speculation, which others are free to mull over and accept partially or not, it's all the same to me. Either you find some of it insightful in some way, or you do not. There is no need to hurl insults around like these two have done. It's not like I will feel terrible as a result, or will care that their narrow viewpoint remains unchanged.
Cicada at 09:57 PM JST - 14th October

It's interesting that one of the first things Chris Savoie complained about upon being arrested (through his loud mouth spokemen Amy to the American press) was a medical condition that needed attention. Apparently he claimed he needed medication, but Japanese doctors determined that medication was not necessary.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypochondriasis

Many hypochondriacs require constant reassurance, either from doctors, family, or friends, and the disorder can become a disabling torment for the individual with hypochondriasis, as well as his or her family and friends. Some hypochondriacal individuals are completely avoidant of any reminder of illness, whereas others are frequent visitors of doctors’ offices. Other hypochondriacs will never speak about their terror...

The significance for Chris Savoie in his career was that his condition was aggravated by being around sick people to the point where he could not be functional. That is the reason he gives for not pursuing medicine, but instead turning to technology, as he felt more comfortable working with things and machines.
LFRAgain at 10:15 PM JST - 14th October

Cicada,

"The point is he was extremely uncomfortable because he is a severely afflicted hypochondriac."

I really need to know what it is about you that compels you to take the following phrase: "he learned he was a hypochondriac who was not comfortable dealing with the sick"

. . . And liberally tack on words like "extremely" and "severely afflicted"? Can you honestly not see just how much you've been tainting every point you make with copious amounts of prejudice?

"I wonder if people think it is just coincidence that his mother died a week after he was born, and his father died when he was still a tyke."

And THIS?! What in the name of all that is good and right does this have to do with the price of apples?!

"their basic position of support for Chris."

You just make this all up as you go along, don't you? I never said I supported Chris specifically. I've maintained all along that:

A) Outdated Japanese family law forced both Chris and Noriko into an untenable situation

and . . .

B) Noriko is by no stretch innocent in this, by virtue of the fact she violated a court order when she took the children to Japan

In the process of taking these positions, I've found myself wasting a ridiculous amount of time addressing an unintended point, namely your largely frivolous posts here.

You have contributed very little to the discussion outside of drawing upon hearsay, speculation, and your own widely advertised prejudice to manufacture an image of Chris Savoie as some horrid, dysfunctional monster who has done the unthinkable: he tried to get his children back.

These three areas are the only ones I've tried to address here, and you've only managed to respond by hopping on a bandwagon michaelqtodd long since abandoned by latching onto rumors, whisperings, and outright fabrications from -- ye gads, of ALL places -- OTHER forums across the 'Net to drive home a point that borders on fanatical zeal.
You've already decided Chris Savoie is a monster in your eyes. That much is obvious. And in order to convince everyone else that he is a villain, you've amply demonstrated your complete willingness to lie, cheat, and steal to build your case. Call that an insult if you like, but you've gone from reasonable musings at the start of this all to sounding like a complete loon with every post you choose to creatively embellish. It's really, truly freaky to watch.
taj at 12:03 AM JST - 15th October

Hmmm. I guess my subtle suggestion for a cooling of tempers was too inflammatory for the board. It's been deleted!! (Oh well. the flames still fly.)

Michael, I didn't answer half your question earlier. I wrote what I think likely will happen, but not what I think is deserved. For that, I'd need to be in the court room, hearing actual first person testimony, and seeing the confiscated video/photos. (Shannon Higgins is a photographer by trade & training). And the police / medical photos of any injuries, etc. AND like any Japanese jurist, I put a lot of store by REMORSE. If a person shows none, they're a danger to society. Personality disorder or whatever. A person who understands the harm /trauma they've caused in their moment of passion or panic, we can work with. And I don't necessarily believe that the guy is as much of a selfish, whiny jerk as his American lawyer and wife are making him out to be through the Tennessee news stations.

As for a deterrent, the lack of success should be sufficient. Also, any left-behind parents who've been paying attention should realize that there has be a change in government recently. This administration has spoken very publicly and favorably about changing family laws and making things more fair for non-custodial parents. Now is NOT the time for rash, desperate measures. Now is the time for reasoned pleas.

Lets hope this mess gets cleared up smoothly and that the focus can be shifted to more reasonable people.
Cicada at 04:48 PM JST - 15th October

LFRAgain:

I really need to know what it is about you that compels you to take the following phrase: "he learned he was a hypochondriac who was not comfortable dealing with the sick"...And liberally tack on words like "extremely" and "severely afflicted"?

Chris Savoie himself stated that his hypchondriasis is so severe that it made him unable to function in situations where he would be responsible for sick people.

If you are interested in more than your two points A and B which you have reiterated only about a thousand times, I'd suggest you read up on the mental disorder that Chris Savoie has said he is afflicted with.

A) Outdated Japanese family law forced both Chris and Noriko into an untenable situation

That is your opinion, but most people think it is more simple: Chris Savoie unnecessarily forced Noriko into an intolerable situation.

B) Noriko is by no stretch innocent in this, by virtue of the fact she violated a court order when she took the children to Japan.

Noriko is not guilty of anything in Japan, and is only guilty of leaving the intolerable situation in America. You would like to say that she shares somehow in the guilt for Chris's reprehensible behavior, but she does not. You, for some reason, want to blame Japanese law and a Japanese woman for Chris's inexcusable, violent kidnapping of children.

you've gone from reasonable musings at the start of this all to sounding like a complete loon

Putting your penchant for irrelevant personal attack aside, I'd have to say that you are looking for excuses for Chris: Japanese law is bad, Noriko disobeyed a court order...

Whereas I am looking for some common thread that both explains Chris's extraordinary insensitivity toward Noriko and the children while in America and his violent abduction behavior here in Japan.

The man has said he is afflicted with hypochondriasis, a mental illness that is often associated with obsessive compulsive disorder. His abduction had nothing to do with a love for the children, I think, but rather an inability to lose control over them. He's a control freak, and now he is "tortured" by his inability to control the lighting in his jail cell, where hopefully he will remain for a long time.
Junnama at 04:51 PM JST - 15th October

This Chris Savoie story is quite sordid - I only wish the media here was covering it with as much vigor as they did Noripi.....
igotchu at 06:23 PM JST - 15th October

Cicada, I don't care how you put it your Hypochondriac argument is never even gona make it in the court room. I hope Chris is keeping his mouth shut because you guys have lulled him into talking and twisted his words to fit your reasoning for denying him access. You say Noriko escaped from the intolerable situation in America, well all of your arguments is coming back to my original claim, and that is she lacks the understanding of the role of step-parents in the children's life. Answer my questions, plain and simple:

Do you believe a child from divorced parents, can grow up with the mother's new husband and the father's new wife?

In international child custody cases do you believe a child has the right to know both of his parents?

Please explain why Japan does not enforce a parent's right of access to his or her child when the custodial parent does not approve?
igotchu at 06:37 PM JST - 15th October

Taj, what do you mean REMORSE? Are you expecting Chris to be remorseful for trying to stay in his kids life? No loving parent would feel remorse. Why don't you expect Japanese courts and judges to show remorse for all the parents they have denied access to their kids.
cstaylor at 06:57 PM JST - 15th October

Christopher Savoie has just been released from jail with all charges dropped: http://edition.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/asiapcf/10/15/japan.custody.battle/
taj at 07:32 PM JST - 15th October

igotchu, if you ever have to deal with Japanese police, my advice is this: apologize. Apologize for taking up their valuable time. Apologize for the inconvenience of the paperwork they will have to complete. Bow a lot.(You'll get away with a hell of a lot more that way!)

Remorse = recognition, regret, reflection.

People who admit their action caused harm to others (more trauma for the kids for sure!) are less likely to reoffend. Ditto people who show regret.

What I'd do in Dr. Savoie's case is wail and moan and apologize and blubber. "Oh what have I done! I've hurt my ex-, I've shocked my kids, and now I'll never see them aga in! Oh woe is me. What have I done.!" And then make them pity me. And then get let off.

(PS. Did I mention I'm a bit devious?)
igotchu at 07:49 PM JST - 15th October

You will have my support if things keep moving in the right direction. Just signing the Hague is not enough, all parents, Japanese included must have access to their kids. And as long as we are moving in the right direction I see no reason why the rest of the world will not be more supportive of your efforts to find out what really happened to Japanese nationals abducted to North Korea. I will fight for that issue on these forums just as hard. I promise you, igotcha on that one. Peace.
LFRAgain at 08:56 AM JST - 16th October

Cicada,

"Whereas I am looking for some common thread that both explains Chris's extraordinary insensitivity toward Noriko and the children while in America and his violent abduction behavior here in Japan."

Utter rubbish from start to finish. You're not only at the head of the mob, but you're the person passing out torches and pitchforks. You aren’t looking for answers here. You're looking for validation of your own prejudices.
Cicada at 11:22 PM JST - 17th October

LFRAgain:

Utter rubbish from start to finish.You're ...you're ... You... You're...

You don't even have an argument, and need to resort to personal remarks.

Of course if you do not accept that Chris Savoie's treatment of Noriko (after he only got 2 weekends per month visitation) was unforgivably insensitive and vile, then we just don't agree. No need for you to be upset when others don't agree with you. That is actually what was said about Chris Savoie -- that he would suddenly fly into a rage when someone did not agree with something. So maybe you have quite a lot in common with him.