ICHIHASHI ARRESTED BY POLICE IN OSAKA

good

Hooray!

they got the father on the phone now... good news!. Fry the POS. Wow he sure did alter his face...

The Hawker family can now find some peace of mind, such as it may be.

THANK YOU FOR THE UPDATE. THIS IS GOOD NEWS.

Yatta!!!!!! finally, this is good news!!!!

Great job, Keystones! You do come through!

It was a matter of time. Maybe he finally listened to his Mum and turned himself in. She put out a plea for him to do so on Tokudane this morning.

Lindsay, rest in peace.

Says on Mainichi that he was trying to board a ferry.

That doesn't sound much like he handed himself in, but who knows, if he walked into a large number of cops and felt the game was up maybe he did turn himself in to them?

happy news! Gonna have a beer now and celebrate. RIP Lucy, justice will be served I believe.

yeah seems it was at the ferry terminal, but did he turn himself in or was he spotted?

good

Gotta watch NHK news at 9pm tonight!

Great news!

Now hang him.

Yeehah grandmah...!! Can't wait to see that yucky horrible face behind bars where he belongs.

fantastic news..

He hasn't been found guilty of anything yet.

Says on Mainichi that he was trying to board a ferry.

I'm surprised he didn't try to swim for it.

maybe the reward money can be used to get the father over here...and attend the court case.

thank goodness for that. yourock - i agree (though lucy was the british girl who worked as a hostess and was killed, this time it was lindsay). a glass of wine and a moment of silence for lindsay: do not forget her face

woohoo!!!

if he turned himself in then no one collects the reward

kobe kid:

if he turned himself in then no one collects the reward

are you seriously concerned about the reward? such a callous thought when a girl died so horrendously, her killer has finally been caught/turned himself in/whatever - he's done for now.

i send out my heartfelt thanks to the police of Osaka for getting him.

when it happened, and was released in the british press, my grandmother almost had a heart attack, thinking that it had been me. i can only imagine the pain this caused her family - and that is never going to be compensated by financial means

I would have thought he fled to the Inaka, put on a flu mask, and rode local trains to where ever he needed to go. Its like he wanted to be caught I guess. It would have taken a huge effort to do all over what he has done to evade capture over the past two years. He probably ran out of will power and put himself in the firing line.

I second Dolphingirl with caps on WOOHOOO!!!

To Lindsay - may you now rest in peace, never forgotten.

To Lindsay`s family and friends - I am SOOOO happy for you. This will not being Lindsay back, but maybe help to give you some of the closure you need.

And to all the posters here on JT - WISH I could join you all for one big celebration of this news, but as zoechan rightly pointed out, a lovely girl has gone. I will be having a (very small, very weak! 38 weeks pregnant!) glass of wine here in front of the PC and thinking of Lindsay and her family- please join me!

Oh - and to JT - thanks for putting the news in caps and understanding how important it is to the posters here.

Just had a look over at Asahi (in Japanese). Apparently he was picked up on a tip off by a passerby. They apparently saw him waiting at a ferry terminal in Osaka (do they have ferries in Osaka?), and the police rushed down there to question him after polishing off their bento. After a bit of prevaricating, apparently he claimed to some dude called Elvis Presley, he admitted that he was in fact, Ichihara. The police now have him down the station for a warm bath and a pat on the back.

At least that is the gist of what they are reporting in the Japanese media.

Apologies for the mistake, Lindsay I meant. BBC news haven't posted anything as yet, but NHK's News 9 will no doubt have more information. Just happy he's in custody.

Damn, They got him! Bravo!

Great news and her parents must be so relieved.

The story has now been posted on the BBC.

Brilliant!

This is excellent news - it might even help spur the J-police to perform better on other cases. Clearly the evil creep was running out of places to hide so well done to the media for highlighting the case and to the person who spotted him.

see this http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/coventry_warwickshire/8352230.stm

Thank goodness, thank goodness, thank the goodness of all the efforts by the police. I hope the plastic surgeons get grilled good and long and regret that they didn't bring this to light sooner. But thank goodness AT LEAST he's been caught!!!!! Whether it takes whatever it takes, we can rest assured that at least we can sleep a bit easier tonight. Amen, and amen again.

Given the fact he looks very different in this picture I hope the allegations of racism (no one turning him in when he was SURELY so recognisable) and ineptitude (how could the Police not find him given he was SURELY so recognisable) will cease.

Well done to the Police for getting him finally.

This will lead to a lot of soul-searching by the Japanese police as to why he could escape and then evade capture for so long.

good news indeed!

I would have thought he fled to the Inaka, put on a flu mask, and rode local trains to where ever he needed to go. Its like he wanted to be caught I guess.

You can't hide in the inaka. Everybody knows who everybody else is, and everybody gives strangers a good eyeballing. Not so in the city. This guy was a narcissist who wanted to be free, whatever the cost.

Im so happy for Lindsay and her family. May she rest in Peace.

And may this animal get the what he deserves.

thank you kirakira - cheers! and a little tear shed that finally, finally, finally, he is apprehended.

I'm sure this will go on into the hundreds of contributors, but while still below that, I have to say that the plastic surgery Ichihashi had, changed his almost evil looking mug into one quite civil. Whoever did it is both a good technician AND an accomplice to a fugitive. Whoever performed the surgery must be brought out and or is this not possible according to law? My point is that without a doubt the dr. must have know the mug he/she was working on was that of criminal Ichihashi. There is not another with anything near those looks! And don't forget that when entering the trial and criminal proceedings. We need to remind ourselves what the real Ichihashi mug was, to never forget the absolute hideousness of his dastardly crime. He is not that civil looking kind, hard-working gent he now appears thanks to the surgery. Its quite shocking, actually.

Wow. I never thought it'd happen.

His arrest was expected (the way news media were focusing for last few days) and now....what will be the punishment and when? sincerely hope it won't be same like Japanese actress Sakai (one and a half year suspended for three years).

And to all a good night!

yeah, we will now know what was going on for all this time. Who helped him, and how he was able to hide in plain sight for so long.

They got him, I'm in disbelief that the jcops did their job!! At last. See jt. Keep the story alive and people will not forget, now I tell you how to do your job. That job is report and sod what the government tell media to print. RIP Lyndsey. Gone but not forgotten by those who care.

YES!

I guess this is big amongst the foreign news. My relo said; well if that guy can find work, why is there people who say they cant.....

This is a relief for the Hawker family. Not good news, as Lindsay Hawker is not here anymore and because it took over 2 years to get him. A few important points for the Japanese government and the Japanese public to digest:-

Ichihashi's latest identity was discovered thanks to the member of staff who discovered his post-op photo - NOT DISCOVERED BY THE POLICE AFTER MORE THAN 2 YEARS.

Ichihashi's lifestyle in Osaka was revealed, again thanks to that diligent member of staff at the cosmetic clinic - NOT BECAUSE OF THE POLICE AFTER THE 2 YEAR INVESTIGATION.

Ichihashi was finally found at the ferry port in Osaka, spotted by member of the public who told the cops - YET AGAIN, NOT SPOTTED BY THE INEPT POLICE.

A relief, but serious questions need to be asked here.

Incredibly great news. Very happy that he has been caught. I hate to bring it up, but now comes the trial. Hopefully he will get what he deserves, but I am a little anxious about the trial. I hope the police and prosecutors have all the evidence they need to convict this guy of murder, and not just getting rid of a body. The circus is not over yet.

Kudos to the person that recognised him in that ferry waiting room!

Suspended sentence or 5 years maximum. I think Horie's sentence will be longer than his.

Moderator: Please refrain from posting pointless remarks like this.

Let me be the first to congratulate the JCops! (Or let this be the first time I've ever had anything good to say about the JCops) And I sincerely mean it... Bravo Zulu JCops!

They got him!

Fleeing to Okinawa...he might have had a chance up north in Hokkaido, maybe escaping on a Russian shipping boat or something, glad they got him!

So what about a sentence for this chap folks. According to NHK, the police down in the big O are wasting no time is dragging Mr. Ichihashi back to Chiba to face the music. Given all the hoopla surrounding the case, the plod down in Osaka probably cannot wait to get rid of the chap. Lets just hope he doesn't do a runner when they open the paddy-wagon doors back in Chiba.

Thinking about a sentence, the first thing the cops have to do is put him in the frame for Lindsay's murder. At the moment they only want him for abandonment of a body. Once they get this over and done with, there will be recriminations about him doing the runner, which will probably hurt him when this thing finally gets to trial. Considering the unpredictable nature of the Japanese legal system, it is pretty difficult to imagine what sort of sentence he will get. If he cries and sobs like a fading idol, he might get off with a good behavior bond and his bus fare home. This is imaginable if you consider the lack of worth that has been put on the lives of foreign murder victims in the past in Japan. That chap who strangled the American down in Roppongi only got a good behavior bond. Anything is possible in this country.

On the other hand, Ichihashi might get hung, drawn and quartered just to quench the blood lust of the JT readership. My own prediction is 10 to 12 years on a murder rap, with a career in Japan's entertainment industry afterwards, just like the guy who topped himself in LA last year.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cwxwgWCVzlE

holy crap! worth the CAPITALS

Fantastic!

Let me be the first to congratulate the JCops! (Or let this be the first time I've ever had anything good to say about the JCops) And I sincerely mean it... Bravo Zulu JCops!

Please, please tell me that this is a tongue-in-cheek comment and that you are not serious ! Are you totally out of touch with reality ?? Read my previous post above. Two members of the Japanese public found him, not the useless cops.

Looks like the J-cops got their man. Good for them. Glad to see him locked up.

Good. Now convict him on murder charges and execute him.

1.Ichihashi's latest identity was discovered thanks to the member of staff >who discovered his post-op photo - NOT DISCOVERED BY THE POLICE AFTER MORE >THAN 2 YEARS. 2.Ichihashi's lifestyle in Osaka was revealed, again thanks to that >diligent member of staff at the cosmetic clinic - NOT BECAUSE OF THE >POLICE AFTER THE 2 YEAR INVESTIGATION. 3.Ichihashi was finally found at the ferry port in Osaka, spotted by >member of the public who told the cops - YET AGAIN, NOT SPOTTED BY THE >INEPT POLICE.

What are you going on about?

Duh. Only the clinic staff are going to be able to examine him, see the scars etc from the previous surgery, and put 2 and 2 together. His lifestyle in Osaka (this past year, before that he was in Chiba and Fukuoka) was revealed by the men he worked with. He worked as a construction worker for a year, lived in the dormitory, and ate all his meals there. It was not until after the post-surgical picture was broadcast that the people who lived with him a year finally realized it. 3.You think that there should be cops at every train, bus, and ferry station?

There was not only one surgeon...how the first one didn't recognize him I have no idea. However, after the most radical parts of his surgery he went on to have his eyelids done, and then got his nose done.

After the old bloke that spotted him called Suminoe police station they sent... 2 policemen to check it out and then another TWO.

Do you have any idea how many false tips have been called in?

Note to the PoPo: Now that you have him, don't drink the tea, fall asleep or let him fool you with a point down the hall and a "What's that?" while he runs the other way. Keep your eyes on this slippery fish. Bring out all the tricks. Handcuffs, shackles, straight jackets... the works. DON'T LET HIM GO... AGAIN.

I wonder if he was in handcuffs. You couldn't tell from the TV coverage of them transporting him to Shin-Osaka station.

Osakadaz, I just get sick of reading the constant dribble here about how they should have done this, should have done that posted by people who evidently don't even watch the news, seeing how little they know about the case....

Haven't seen just CAPITALS in a headline used before in JT, so credit to that person who suggested it, or just did it. Changing the subject, it's very unlikely Ichihashi will get the death penalty for this, assuming he's found guilty. Murdering multiple people with intension will usually get the death penalty. I'm guessing here, but being rejected by a hot English teacher won't be case for the death penalty. But who knows. I don't.

Moderator: Just for your interest, we have used capital letters for headlines twice before: on 9/11 and when Saddam Hussein was captured.

now throw away the key

Great news, I hope this brings some closure to the poor Hawker family. Maybe a little justice at last. I'm sure many men and women of the police forces in Japan worked very hard in this frustrating 2 and a half years.

Lets get some blanket coverage now for some of the other psychopaths out there still at large - starting with the remaining Tokyo Sarin Gas terrorists at large after 14 years. This recent publicity seems to have done the job.

Sarge wrote:

Good. Now convict him on murder charges and execute him.

X 1,000

I am glad they finally caught the scumbag, and I am confident that the Gyotoku constabulary wont let him run away in his socks again this time.

Play fair with justice, and the course of law will protect/help all. RIP Lindsay.

http://www.japanprobe.com/2009/11/10/tatsuya-ichihashi-arrested-in-osaka/#comments

mr hawker found out from the news program.

The cops were going to tell Mr. Hawker they arrested Ichihashi, but TBS beat 'em to it.

The police could easily transport him by helicopter or private plane, but chose to parade him across the country on the shinkansen.

They could also say that the train and platform are restricted for security reasons rather than fighting through hundreds of screaming cameramen.

But that wouldn't make for good TV.

You think that there should be cops at every train, bus, and ferry station?

Mmm, actually, yes. On a trip to Hachijojima by ferry last year, we entertained ourselves by playing Spot The Cop On The Jetty at every island the boat stopped in at, both going and coming back. There was always at least one police officer checking (discreetly) everyone getting on and off the boat.

Dunno about buses and trains, though.

There are never enough cops in the world in any city to solve an capture every single criminal out there. Statistically speaking, there's about 1 police officer per 300 people. LAPD for example has always been unerstaffed, even though they have over 10,000 police officers in the city, thats still 1 officer per 400 persons. Do you know how many false tips are called into the emergency lines every day? Heck we often see on the news old ladies calling the police hundreds of times for no reason.

Unless he confesses, I wonder how they will actually prove that Ichihashi killed Ms Hawker. They had the same trouble with Joji Obara and Lucy Blackman, I recall.

I just get sick of reading the constant dribble here about how they should have done this, should have done that posted by people who evidently don't even watch the news, seeing how little they know about the case....

And Himajin, I am sick of your dribble trying to defend the police investigation. Clearly it is the likes of you who have not kept up with the news on this case, when you then try to defend the very professionals who are paid to find the information that was discovered by non-professionals. If it weren't for the assistant at the clinic and the truck driver, we wouldn't be reading this headline this evening matey.

Moderator: Please keep the discussion civil.

Glad they caught the guy. A bit slow but they got him!

Slightly off-topic maybe, but I really feel for his parents. Not sure how many people here watched the interview, but they really seem like decent people and it is such a pity they have to suffer it all along with everyone else. I'm sure they'll also be wondering how their son ended up this way.

He must have had "HELP" !!! He couldn't have done it alone. I hope the j police dig deeper and arrest the parents, friend(s) or family relatives. He couldn't have done it alone without any help.

3.You think that there should be cops at every train, bus, and ferry station?

Himajin, after key information published this morning that Ichihashi had been living and working in Osaka, even my 3 year old would have had the sense to post 1 junior cop down at Osaka ferry port. But maybe that's the level of intelligence you are trying to defend ?

but I really feel for his parents. Not sure how many people here watched the interview, but they really seem like decent people

Although their apology seems a little 2 and a half years late to me....

it is such a pity they have to suffer it all along with everyone else.

However, their child is still alive.

I'm sure they'll also be wondering how their son ended up this way.

Let me see now. 300,000 yen a month pocket money and a free apartment at the age of 28 with no job or studies. Yeah, I wonder how...

Northlondon,

This is a relief for the Hawker family. Not good news, as Lindsay Hawker is not here anymore and because it took over 2 years to get him. A few important points for the Japanese government and the Japanese public to digest:-

Ichihashi's latest identity was discovered thanks to the member of staff who discovered his post-op photo - NOT DISCOVERED BY THE POLICE AFTER MORE THAN 2 YEARS.

Ichihashi's lifestyle in Osaka was revealed, again thanks to that ?diligent member of staff at the cosmetic clinic - NOT BECAUSE OF THE POLICE AFTER THE 2 YEAR INVESTIGATION.

Ichihashi was finally found at the ferry port in Osaka, spotted by member of the public who told the cops - YET AGAIN, NOT SPOTTED BY THE INEPT POLICE.

A relief, but serious questions need to be asked here.

The only question that needs to be asked here, at least as far as your above nonsense is concerned, is how someone could be so abysmally ignorant and myopic in an assessment of how Ishihashi was ultimately captured.

I'm sure you've got a dissertation queued up, outlining in dazzling complexity your superior approach to apprehending a suspect who not only had his appearance surgically altered shortly after fleeing, but also chose to hide in some of the most heavily populated cities in the world.

And of course, I’m certain you have a brilliant justification for why you chose not to share your genius with the proper authorities from the start, in effect robbing the police and Hawker family of the benefits of your insight. Please, do share.

In the meantime, this IS good news. In fact, it's WONDERFUL news, not only for a Japanese public that has had to unknowingly tolerate a disguised murderer in their midst, but also for the friends and family of Lindsay Hawker who have wanted nothing more than to see Ishihashi brought to justice. Please don’t diminish the significance of this event with your petty axe-grinding.

Amazing news! w00 h00! now burn in hell Ichihashi!

I just get sick of reading the constant dribble here about how they should have done this, should have done that posted by people

Well Himajin, I guess all the investigation experts from other countries, whose police can not provide even minimum security to commoners, are logged on to JapanToday to criticize the JCops. After all, JCops just managed to keep the crime rate low in this country!

Ichihashi is arrested, now, if there is not enough proof to convict, all these experts will be nagging about the Japanese judicial system as well!

I am looking for a bookie who will take a bet on the fact that the parents were supporting him the whole time.

The mother's pre-emptive calling of a TV show to meekly ask her son to give himself in is a blatant back-pedalling, self-preservation move on her behalf, and only happened after the photo's were released. Damage limitation for sure.

Also, how did she know he was still in Japan? <Rhetorical question, by the way...

Blatantly feeding him cash the whole time.

never would i have thought the keystones could pull this one off. Well i was wrong, it just took them two years. Congrats for a job well done

LFRAgain, yet another Chiba police force excuser. And let me repeat it to those posters here who do have a brain LFR, this is not wonderful news. It's a damn sad story for a family all the way back in England who lost their daughter to this monster. It's a relief for her family who want this thug to face justice, but's that is all it is. And don't place my opinion in front of her poor family when you are dancing around with words like wonderful.

also chose to hide in some of the most heavily populated cities in the world.

Yet another defender of this whole drawn-out police case shooting himself in the foot with ridiculous statements. How can you 'hide' for over a year in one of the most heavily populated cities in the world !

Kudos to the person that spotted this animal! I'm so glad the bas*ard has been caught! Was just thinking...if that had been Britain...the police car would have been lucky to get out of the police station in one piece!

Glad to see this scumbag arrested. Yes, it may seem like it took a while to do it, but at least they did get him in the end, and before the 20-year statute of limitations was to run out. After all, there are tons of scumbags out there in the world (not only in Japan) still roaming free. And although it would be nice to see Japan have something similar to an "America's Most Wanted" TV show to help, I have yet to see that show directly lead to anywhere near a 50% arrest success rate. In other words, catching fugitives are not always easy open-shut scenarios. In a sea of people, I can imagine that it would be quite easy to disappear if someone wanted to; especially if they were disquised as one of the many faceless and nameless homeless out there.

Bottom line on this story, Ichihashi-san has been arrested for the alleged murder of Miss Hawker. The only way I could see the family have some piece of mind from all this is to have Ichihashi be tried as a foreigner using the quick Japanese trial system. If he is tried as a normal Japanese citizen, he will probably have any sentence suspended due to mental helath problems. Would a normal criminal evade the law for two years and get plastic surgery to alter their appearance and remain in Japan to eventually be caught?

Northlondon:

" Let me see now. 300,000 yen a month pocket money and a free apartment at the age of 28 with no job or studies. Yeah, I wonder how... "

Actually, I seem to remember he graduated from horticulture school.

first the j-cops nab that military hit-and-runner in okinawa. now they've nabbed j-land's most wanted! well done! battin' a thousand. go jakes, go! next, nail all those JHS & HS girls who're sellin'emselves online! get out the dragnets!

Just watched the interview with his parents and I too thought they appeared to be full of crap. They denied everything and the answers seemed too prepared. Although it was difficult to hear with the rain pelting down (they couldn't have found a better location for the interview?), there was just something 'off' about the whole thing. For Japanese parents of a killer they seemed to be very calm and cool. And man, does he look like his father. Why did this couple not appear in front of the cameras two years ago?

Back to the apprehension of this nut, for two years I've been wondering why it was so hard to find the guy. I wonder what percentage of Japanese men between 20 and 40 are as tall as he is. 1 percent? 3 percent?

Am I the only one that thought that TBS interview was in poor taste?? [see youtube link above]

The anchor just kept asking poor Mr. Hawker -- who only wanted to get off the phone so he could call his family! -- "How does it feel? How does it feel??" Like after answering the question two or three times already he was finally going to respond, "How does it feel? I'm going to Disney World!!"

Eegads.

Bottom line on this story, Ichihashi-san has been arrested for the alleged murder of Miss Hawker.

Let's get it straight. At the current time this piece of pond life has been arrested on suspicion of abandonment of a body, nothing more, nothing less. Rather, before police got to put him in the frame for this girl's murder, he did a runner. The first thing on the agenda for the fuzz is to tie up the lesser charge of abandonment. While doing so, they will try and get enough evidence to upgrade the charge to murder.

This is great news. Well done to the passenger at the terminal. I hope the guy/girl spends every penny of the reward on themselves. It takes a lot to stand up and be the person that actually does something, no matter how small.

I guess all the investigation experts from other countries, whose police can not provide even minimum security to commoners, are logged on to JapanToday to criticize the JCops

I have been living in Japan for a looong time. Therefore 'my' cops who are responsible for my security and protection are the Japanese cops. I have the right to comment on how useless they are.

if there is not enough proof to convict, all these experts will be nagging about the Japanese judicial system as well!

But it wouldn't be the first time they couldn't convict a murderer though would it ?

Congratulations to the japanese police force. they have done a terrific job. It is quite funny that all the people who never had a good thing to say about the police are on here thinking they were the ones who found him. In the end it was the japanese police with the help of concerned japanese citizens. Remember it was not a foreigner who helped but the fantastic people of japan. Well done. Also had to have a laugh at the guy before who admitted he has been locked up in japan and then says all bad things about the police. Well they caught you so they cant be all bad.

I dont give a dime for people posting about how they would do themselves to get a criminal caught. Pretty much most countries in the world a criminal can be on the loose for many years or never get caught. No matter if its Japan, USA, or europe. There have been loads of cases in the US where crime suspects were not apprehended for years, and being smart about why Ichihashi could be on the loose for two years is just a poor way of trying to be a home sofa cop. Try joining the police force instead.

Congratulations to the police? Really?

He was spotted by 2 passengers in a waiting area, who advised the police. The cops walked up to him as he remained seated and arrested him. He was hardly "captured."

Congratulations and thanks to the 2 people who recognized him.

YES! Well done, ferry passenger! Thanks to you, this scum is finally under lock and key. A tip of the hat to you, and to the Jcops who didn't let him run off this time. we'll see you in the courtroom, Ichihashi!

Burn in Hell, Ishihashi!!!!!!!!

I am pretty sure that is the way it happens in most other countries. A criminal is spotted by the public and they contact the police. Japan is the same so stop blaming the police for letting him go. He has probably sat next to you on the train and you didnt do anything.

samuraisteve, totally right pal. And we should be asking, why have they only just now crawled out from under the rock they have been hiding under for the last 2 years ?? It's a bit sick to me. They should have made themselves available to the media ever since he went on the run. They are just looking for some kind of sympathy now their son has been busted.

wow , he has been arrested at last. why didn,t he come to my station , even though i am not a japanese , but i am very good at identifying a suspect. i would have been 10 million yen richer by now . Anyway, thank the smart guy and the police also for a job well done and i hope he pay dearly for the crime he has committed.May his soul rest in peace.

Congratulations to the japanese police force. they have done a terrific job. It is quite funny that all the people who never had a good thing to say about the police are on here thinking they were the ones who found him. In the end it was the japanese police with the help of concerned japanese citizens. Remember it was not a foreigner who helped but the fantastic people of japan. Well done. Also had to have a laugh at the guy before who admitted he has been locked up in japan and then says all bad things about the police. Well they caught you so they cant be all bad.

Your totally incorrect comments are summed up with your closing sentence. The police didn't catch him. They were led to the exact place where he was sitting.

with the help of concerned japanese citizens. Remember it was not a foreigner who helped but the fantastic people of japan.

Yeah right. Such 'concerned' and 'fantastic' people of Japan that they employed Ichihashi, lived with him for over a year and gave him cosmetic surgery...

One less nut on the street. Hundreds more to go.

"You're nicked me old beauty1"

fantastic news. this is really one chapter of my time in japan that i'm glad to see (hopefully) nearing a close. at least there's now some hope of finding out what happened

Remember it was not a foreigner who helped but the fantastic people of japan.

Today is not really a day to be claiming that the people of Japan are in some way superior to non-Japanese. Let me remind you, this very sad story is of a Japanese person who tortured and murdered a 'foreigner'. Or didn't you know that ??

About time.

Do not blame cops only. Average people here are not bright. They all saw him but failed to notice.

We are "celebrating" the capture of that torturer and murderer! Now that he is captured, I would like NEWSPAPER and on-line companies to show BOTH faces, before and after. This after face starts to look like a beagle and might draw false sympathy from the Mark Chaplains out there. The former face could never create such a dichotomy.

Wow they finally got the nasty bugger. A shame he wasted his money making himself look at best no less ugly than the original. He should have skipped the country he could have been walking around free in Thailand or Cambodia.

Good. Now convict him on murder charges and execute him.

Sarge - for once you and I are on the same side. String this despicable prock up from a very high and public beam. I'd put my hand in my pocket to watch it on pay-per-view.

They have his arrival on the shinkansen at Tokyo eki on live right now. As well as the expected media scrum, there are hundreds of vultures waiting with their mobile phone cameras treating this monster like some kind of film star and waving at the news cameras. And it's midnight on a Tuesday night ! A very sad and sick reflection of society here.

Remember it was not a foreigner who helped but the fantastic people of japan.

Seriously what does that mean?

Watching this live 'media fest' on TV right now, it reminds me of something out of Natural Born Killers. Sick society indeed.

Good to see the police doing such a professional job of crowd control on the live TV footage. It's like Dawn of the Dead out there. Utterly useless.

In any other country a new story such as this would not draw hundreds of spectators with their mobile phone cameras and frenzied news coverage treating him like some celebrity. Other nations would be hanging their heads in shame at such a disgrace of a fellow countryman. People here are really sick sometimes.

Watching this live 'media fest' on TV right now, it reminds me of something out of Natural Born Killers. Sick society indeed.

Ichihashi is the OJ Simpson of Japan. He has become a celebrity by default.

I imagine they will get in the region of 10,000 queuing up for tickets to his trial, and the few who get tix will scalp them for a fee which will enable them to retire in luxury. Ideed, something is sick about all this.

And Himajin, I am sick of your dribble trying to defend the police investigation. Clearly it is the likes of you who have not kept up with the news on this case, when you then try to defend the very professionals who are paid to find the information that was discovered by non-professionals. If it weren't for the assistant at the clinic and the truck driver, we wouldn't be reading this headline this evening matey.

Those were just a couple of "credible" leads out of thousands that the police decided to release to the media. If the police released every bit of information (without verifying the credibility), the general public would lose the interest and the awareness level would not have been there.

The police could have simply transported him by helicopter from the roof of the Osaka police station to the roof of the Funabashi police station.

What a ridiculous media parade.

"Watching this live 'media fest' on TV right now, it reminds me of something out of Natural Born Killers. Sick society indeed."

And if no one had shown up to document Ishihashi's capture, you can be certain of a flurry of accusations of racism and Japanese not considering the murder of a non-Japanese newsworthy.

It's really sad that some would use this news as an outlet for unresolved issues they have with a country that they have allegedly lived in for an "looong time," presumably voluntarily, yet paradoxically spare no time or opportunity to belittle and berate with thinly veiled suggestions of Japanese inferiority.

zander, I think the small risk of a helicopter accident with Japan's most wanted might have put the kaibosh on that. And it is after dark. Although I agree with your point how the cops are going to milk this for all it's worth and as if they have done a great job. What a joke.

I wonder if he was in handcuffs. You couldn't tell from the TV coverage of them transporting him to Shin-Osaka station.

ahem, you can be pretty certain that he was cuffed as well as roped to the bloke that was holding the jacket over his head.

They had the same trouble with Joji Obara and Lucy Blackman, I recall.

the obara case was a lot more complicated than this, and he was given life sentence for everything else that was proven. that said, maybe he would have been put to death if he wasn't acquitted for the blackman murder as well. with the profile that this case has, ;et's hope they don't screw it up..

It was lucky that he was captured so soon after the recent publicity surrounding his "face changes". Well done to the guy who spotted him.

Good news, bt I hope he does not make a PRISON BREAK.

but I do not understand something, the criminal`s bed in Osaka has the same sheets that were shown in his flat in Tokyo.

let's hope they don't screw it up..

Could be looking at letting the new lay judges sit on this trial as well. Evidence is stacked up so his guilt won't be a problem - only question mark will be over whether it was premeditated, if proven then good chance he'll swing.

i think he has been on here most of those 2 years.

Hundreds of vultures out in the rain with their mobile cameras and umbrellas live on TV surrounding the police van with Ichihashi inside. Very sad people.

Good job Ferryman! These white gloves have indeed magical powers - it's not just some Mickey stuff. On a serious note, this one seems to have well worked, only TWO cops were needed to apprehend that fugitive. And it's about time too. Good job at the bad guy's side too, impressive how he managed to 'openly hide' that long. I mean tax matters, transportation matters ... any foreigner would have difficulties to accomplish that. Fingerprint machines at ferry terminals should be considered :p. Hopefully the Japanese legal system will work well and result in looong removal of that individual from society.

"Yet another defender of this whole drawn-out police case shooting himself in the foot with ridiculous statements. How can you 'hide' for over a year in one of the most heavily populated cities in the world !".

So what you're saying is that every other police force in the world solves every crime on its books within a couple of weeks? Northlondon, I think you're the one who is fantasizing here. You only have to look through the history of crime to see the number of criminals that have evaded the police.

Betting, I have never expected a 100% arrest rate. It does not happen anywhere. But for such a high-profile murder case, the mistakes made are inexcusable. And a tough arrest rate does not mean that we should not push for much more professional investigations. It does not excuse the bad job that was done here and I am getting very angry this evening at all this slapping on the back of the police for a job well done. I for one have not forgotten how many times this investigation had to be shaken up by the Hawker family and by the foreign media and community here. Does nobody else here remember how we had to complain at the lack of poster ID's of Ichihashi in police boxes around Japan ?

Good news to hear. Let's hope they have even better luck in finding Miyako Hiraoka's killer.

There would be a noose with his name on it, if there were any justice in the world.

But since Europeans don't believe in capital punishment, I guess a number of years in jail should be sufficient for his rehabilitation and return to society, and I suspect the Japanese court system will eventually concur.

Regardless, I hope the Hawker family eventually gets some closure to this terrible tragedy involving their daughter, but they'd better be prepared for the snail's pace of the court system in Japan.

Tatsuya Ichihashi-you will rot in hell one day.

the fact is that in Japan it is quite safe for everyone and the public and police should try to preserve that as best as possible.

There was clearly ample opportunities to knock Ichihashi off earlier if the cops had of gotten off their duffs and done something and if the public at large were not so apathetic.

Anyway, in the end the media delivered Ichihashi to the police but lets give credit to the cops closing the noose on him in the last few days but clearly all the fight was gone from Ichihashi. He had all but given in and was probably headed for Okinawa to commit suicide.

String him up!

the low rate of violent and petty crime in japan has next to nothing to do with the police, and everything to do with organised crime and social tendencies.

Lindsey - please rest in peace.

Just be glad he got caught and stop pretending your/our police would have been any better because there are plenty of unresolved murders here in old Albion.

And Himajin, I am sick of your dribble trying to defend the police >investigation. Clearly it is the likes of you who have not kept up with the >news on this case, when you then try to defend the very professionals who >are paid to find the information that was discovered by non-professionals. >If it weren't for the assistant at the clinic and the truck driver, we >wouldn't be reading this headline this evening matey.

Tell me then, in the US and other countries, why do they need programs like 'America's Most Wanted' asking for help from the general public?

The 'likes of me'? Aren't we superior? Not keeping up? Anything I've posted about tonight's events was directly from this morning's/evening's news. Even on this thread, things that people are posting as fact are totally inaccurate. You don't mind though, do you, as long as they agree with you?

Such 'concerned' and 'fantastic' people of Japan that they employed Ichihashi, lived with him for over a year and gave him cosmetic surgery...

Pretty inaccurate for someone who's 'keeping up'. They lived a year with an altered Ichihashi. The second and third surgeons operated on an altered Ichihashi. You would have recognized him regardless, though, I'm sure....

Osaka coppers got him .... hahaha cool .

Just opened the paper and was thrilled to see and read this story. I pray Lindsay's family is able to find some peace not that this monster has been arrested.

It was even news here in Switzerland. So, hang him, this scum is not allowed to have a life...

I pray Lindsay's family is able to find some peace now that this monster has been arrested.

Sadly yes and no, he has been finally caught, so that aspect will give them closure, but Hawker senior has said he looking forward to sitting across from Itchy-bridge at the court trial....what if the itchy one torments them by refusing to acknowledge what he did or just plain torments them? I would have mixed feelings about that - wanting to see him, it could/will reopen the wounds of their lost daughter after all this time worse than ever.

There's lot of pitchfork wielding self-righteous posters on this forum. You all appear to forget Tatsuya Ichihashi is "suspected" of murdering Lindsay Ann Hawker so why are the comments on this board automatically assuming his de facto quilt posting premature hatred like he is scum and you want him to burn him at the stake? Please Restrain yourselves even if the likelihood of him committing the offenses is 99% let the power of the courts decide his guilt NOT your own.

I agree with Himajin this is a severe case of missing white woman syndrome painted by the tabloid focused western media. Why is this story hyped compared to any other domestic murder with a suspect at large? The death Lindsay Ann Hawker is saddening but why is this story MORE important than every over death with an at large suspect? Is it because the JCOPs are incompetent fools and let the suspect get away? NO. all police forces screw sometimes and Japan has one of the lowest murder rates and rapes per capita of any industrialized nation so the incompetent JCOPS must be doing something right. Many of the British and American foreigner posters on this website forget that this country is many times safer than your own. The real reason is because the media again jump on the Japan bashing yellow peril wagon where a sweet innocent young western woman is in the strange nation surrounded by manga reading sex crazed panty stealing Japanese perverts.

Japantoday is also riding the bandwagon Bolding the title like it's more important than any other news article. imagine all the adclick revenues you will be raking in.I know this site is catered to the English teaching foreigners in japan but your severe lack of neutrality is somewhat disappointing.

I agree with Himajin this is a severe case of missing white woman syndrome painted by the tabloid focused western media.

Sorry, it wasn't me who said that. I posted some information on the news and was jumped on with both feet by NorthLondon, that's all.

Defend, most of the posters here don't even live in this country, for some reason loads of people who have nothing to do with anything in Japan come on here to heap bile on Japan and the Japanese. I've been on here off and on for 8 years, I've never seen it this bad. There USED to be some really good discussion here, now it's just a site for disgruntled rants.

OMG! I can't believe they finally got him!

Himajin

I agree with you. There are a few armchair detectives, like northlondon, who are clearly obsessed with this case (count the number of messages from him on this thread alone). These people know nothing about this case and most of their posts are just hot air and fantasy.

They constantly bash the cops, even when they have caught their man. Well, the fact is that the Japanese police did a good job since last Thursday when the case broke. Of course, Ichihashi was arrested after a tip from the public. That is the essence of police work in every country. Northlondon seems to think that reflects badly on the cops. I say it is the result of the police getting Ichihashi's photo out there and alerting the public.

My cousin, who is a police officer in Sydney, says these cases are very difficult to solve and their resolution often hinges on a lucky break, particularly with the public's help. And while the Chiba police may be faulted for Ichihashi's initial escape, they have never given up the search, nor did they lose interest in the case.

Northlondon, this isn't the first time I have had to put you in your place. In future, please don't let your emotions run away with you. Base your opinions on evidence, not pipe dreams. And that includes your continued attacks on Ichihashi's parents. I have said from day one that there is not one iota of evidence that they assisted him and unless such evidence comes to light, I suggest you stop slandering them.

Moderator: Readers, please refrain from making accusations against Ichihashi’s parents unless you have evidence. And please stop sniping at each other.

Well said Smartacus!

And I gotta wonder at all our resident Sherlocks who were convinced that he'd committed suicide or was being protected by the yakuza, etc.

Anyway, always good to see a murderer caught, regardless of the ethnicity or nationality of the victim.

Finally!!!

I'd like to add one thing. The police need the support of every decent citizen to function. They can't do their job properly without such support. So it doesn't help when readers come on sites like this calling them Keystones all the time. The police have a difficult job. This isn't "CSI," where they can catch the killer in an hour.

Give them a break and at least try to understand how hard it is to crack a murder case.

I wonder if the caller will get the 10 million smackeroos?

It seemed like Ichihashi gave up, since he realized that his biggest mistake was going to Nagoya Clinic to get another plastic surgery. Once the public saw the reconstructed face, it gave new leads to the Japanese police.

I wouldn't be surprised if that caller didn't ask for the 10 million. He seemed like he wanted this Ichihashi caught like the majority of the Japanese people. Ichihashi humiliated the Japanese police, he also became an embarrassment to the Japanese people by causing an international incident when thought he can easily force himself on Lindsay Hawker without a fight. Up to the point where he didn't realize that he can kill another human being.

smartacus,

Give them a break and at least try to understand how hard it is to crack a murder case.

I agree with what you have written. However, I do think this case will help the police become even more effective in the future. One thing that has been mentioned in the press is the fact that wanted photos of Ichihashi were not sent to plastic surgery hospitals in Japan. It is thought that if pictures of the suspect had been sent to such hospitals it would have been easier to identify him when he went for surgical consults. In fact, that is evidently what the doctor of one of the hospitals Ichihashi visited has stated.

Anyway, I am glad Ichihashi is finally been caught. Good on all concerned in bringing him to justice.

MadokaKato:

" It seemed like Ichihashi gave up, "

And how is trying to go to Okinawa "giving up" in your mind? If the ferry terminal employee had not called the cops, he´d be in Naha. "Gave up"???

My opinion is that I am sick of the posters here saying what a good job the police did. These cops that did such a good job, they hadn't even been checking photographic records from cosmetic surgery clinics around the country (because it was the clinic assistant who forwarded the picture). That is very basic detective work. And for all the posters here trying to convince us what a difficult job the cops had, you seem to have neglected one major fact. That the police knew Ichihashi's full name, parents address and had his photo since day 1 of his escape 2 and a half years ago.

Moderator: Sorry, but you are going around in circles repeating yourself. Please move the discussion along.

That is very basic detective work

Slight edit needed;

That is very basic armchair detective work

"My opinion is that I am sick of the posters here saying what a good job the police did".

And some of us are sick of the bashing the Japanese police get. No police force is perfect, absolutely none. And unfortunately, at the end of the day it is just another murder case that needs to be solved like many crimes.

"That the police knew Ichihashi's full name, parents address and had his photo since day 1 of his escape 2 and a half years ago".

So you seem to think that his parents are responsible for the murder? The police can't be everywhere at once. Is there any proof that Ichihashi went to his parent's house?

So you seem to think that his parents are responsible for the murder? The police can't be everywhere at once. Is there any proof that Ichihashi went to his parent's house?

? Where did I say that ? I said that the police had most information about Ichihashi from the moment he escaped. They were not looking for an unknown suspect.

Suspended sentence or 5 years maximum. I think Horie's sentence will be longer than his.

Moderator: Please refrain from posting pointless remarks like this.

Speculating about the outcome of the sentencing after the trial is is not pointless. Others on here have done it too.

The only pointless remark was the comment you made. Please refrain, ne?

Many thought this guy had escaped to Korea under a false identity given his Korean roots and relatives there. Glad he is finally caught and brought to justice.

Many thought this guy had escaped to Korea under a false identity given his Korean roots and relatives there. Glad he is finally caught and brought to justice.

I almost wet myself laughing. There hasn't been a hint of Korean ancestory for Ichihashi even in the gossip mags.

Very good news indeed. I watched the reports on BBC World earlier with a feeling of grim satisfaction. It won't bring Lindsey back, but at least this lowlife isn't free any longer.

Bet they sent more than 9 cops to apprehend him this time, though....

WilliB

Did he fight back? Did he attempt to run?? Well, he was too exhausted to do either physically or emotionally. He confessed he is Ichihashi before he was positively ID.

Since he didn't get a passport, he was running out of choices. Who knows what he had in mind if he successfully escaped to Okinawa.

Use some damn common sense here. The plastic surgeon thought the man resemebled Ichihashi but wasn't positively sure at the time (who would be, he looked different). So after he left the clinic, the doctor looked up his photo and made the decision to call the police. Sending photos to clinics wouldn't have changed anything from this. In any case, there was a followup appointment, which in most cases criminals have been nabbed in exactly this situation (for showing up at the followup).

Next, the caller who saw him happened to be at the ferry terminal. Use some damn common sense, the caller didn't have an elaborate plan to track down Ichihara, he simply happened to be here.

Japan would be far more screwed if half the commenters here were the police. Their bashing couldn't be more ironic and inane.

they hadn't even been checking photographic records from cosmetic surgery clinics

Any proof of that?

Did you know that there are 15 pages of listings of cosmetic surgery clinics in Tokyo on one site alone?

"That the police knew Ichihashi's full name, parents address and had his photo since day 1 of his escape 2 and a half years ago".

His full name, which he changed, his parents' address, where they did a phone tap for quite a while (as well as watching Ichihashi's bank account), and had a photo of his unreconstructed face. And?

Bet they sent more than 9 cops to apprehend him this time

The article says two, then another two....

"My opinion is that I am sick of the posters here saying what a good job the police did".

And I'm sick of you groundlessly bashing the Japanese police, making out like they're Keystone Kops, when in fact they have a better clear-up rate than the police forces of some cities I could mention -- including the one after which you name yourself.

Also, you bash the Japanese public for making a to-do about this guy, again showing total lack of perspective.

One kind of expat I hate is the kind who lives for years in a country, and bashes it endlessly and inaccurately, romanticizing the "home country" by implicit (and false) comparison.

Moderator: All readers, please keep the discussion civil.

bdiego;

Use some damn common sense here.

I think that's asking too much of our bounty of armchair Sherlock Holmeses

bdiego,

Sending photos to clinics wouldn't have changed anything from this.

I strongly beg to differ. If the first plastic surgery hospital had had a wanted photo of Ichihashi, the chances would have certainly been highly that they would have realized exactly who he was. After all, at that time, both the photo and the face would have matched. This is what I said was reported and this is what the surgery office is reported to have said in media. As it is, without a photo, it is certainly possible (and likely) that the first hospital did not realize who he was.

I strongly beg to differ. If the first plastic surgery hospital had had a wanted photo of Ichihashi, the chances would have certainly been highly that they would have realized exactly who he was. After all, at that time, both the photo and the face would have matched. This is what I said was reported and this is what the surgery office is reported to have said in media. As it is, without a photo, it is certainly possible (and likely) that the first hospital did not realize who he was.

As always, hindsight is 20/20. In your country, is it a standard procedure to pass out photos to cosmetic surgery clinics for every wanted criminals "at large"? If as you say, the "first" plastic surgery hospital had had a wanted photo of Ichihashi along with every other "at large" criminals in the past as well as the future, the chances of that clinic recognizing Ichihashi is no greater than that of ordinary citizen recognizing Ichihashi in public simply because his features would have been diluted with tens and hundreds of "at large" photos these clinics would have received in the past. If these clinics had Ichihashi photos of him only (none from the others in the past), then of course, the chances are higher that the staff would of recognized him. However, that's not what we're talking about here.

nigelboy,

As always, you jump in without really reading what people write. First, I am merely reporting the suggestion that was reported in the Japanese media that the police should have passed out a photo of Ichihashi. I further was merely reporting that one of the surgical hospitals themselves had suggested that if they had been provided with a photo of Ichihashi that they would have been able to recognize him. Second, I am speaking about my country. Third, your question about other countries as absolutely nothing to do with this discussion as this manhunt did not happen in 'another country' it happen in Japan and I am talking about Japan. If you want to talk about what happens in other countries, there is a 'World' section of JT just for that. Lastly, the murder rate in Japan is extremely low. The suggestion was not for 'wanted criminals', but was for ones like Ichihashi who are wanted for murder. There is also face recognition software that can be utilized to make the comparisons faster as before photos of patients can be compared to photos from posters.

Interestingly, and yet oh so unsurprisingly, you have no suggestions yourself but seem to be perfectly satisfied with the system as it is. Sad. One would think it would be positive to consider how to improve things in the future instead as the people in the reports I presented did. Maybe you should try it sometime instead of always trying to compare Japan with your own country. Japan is Japan, not your country.

Justice delayed,justice denied..and if ever convicted of MURDER,he can get life as maximum punishment of which after 7 years he can appeal for parole and go free. He has taken a life therefore he had forfeited his, so 7 years is not enough!

The Japanese Police got lucky this time = If Ichihashi would have gotten on that ferry he could have easily escaped to the US or UK and would have never been caught. He could have easily joined the American military and be fighting in Afghanistan on his 3rd tour by now.

-the plastic surgery was a mistake also.

Thankfully the Japanese Police always get their man (and confession) with the populace's help. I never had any doubt, but it was upsetting having to wait. =Don't commit crimes in Japan.

Maybe you guys should all write a movie about this and your theories.

MadokaKato,

Yeah, maybe we should start with your theories first.

Glad he is finally caught but isn't it ironic that the banner ad on the JT News homepage reads -

Teach English in Tokyo Live in a great city Teach great people.

As always, you jump in without really reading what people write. First, I am merely reporting the suggestion that was reported in the Japanese media that the police should have passed out a photo of Ichihashi. I further was merely reporting that one of the surgical hospitals themselves had suggested that if they had been provided with a photo of Ichihashi that they would have been able to recognize him.

Well of course the media is also going to play the hindsight game. It doesn't matter to me whether it was the media or you that made the point. I simply countered by my previous post above. Secondly, maybe you could help me what you mean by "one of the surgical hospitals" since the one in Nagoya stated specifically that Ichihashi looked completely different from the "wanted" pictures.

"既にほかで手術をしていたため、手配写真と全く人相が異なり、手術時は気づかなかった"

Interestingly, and yet oh so unsurprisingly, you have no suggestions yourself but seem to be perfectly satisfied with the system as it is. Sad. One would think it would be positive to consider how to improve things in the future instead as the people in the reports I presented did. Maybe you should try it sometime instead of always trying to compare Japan with your own country. Japan is Japan, not your country.

According to NPA stats, the apprehension/arrest rate for muder is around 97% and has been around the mid 90 percentile for a long time. Is it perfect? Certainly not but it's head and shoulders above any of the countries where the posters here are from so forgive me for putting some perspective on these armchair detectives with their "coulda woulda shoulda, after the fact, hindsight" analysis.

nigelboy,

hindsight

Umm...If 'as always, hindsight is 20/20 (you know, perfect or correct) ', then you have already admitted my 'hindsight' was correct. Then, amusingly, you attempt to incorrectly argue against it.

Also, 'hindsight' is one of the reasons people do not make the same mistakes again (for example, now you won't use the expression 'hindsight is 20/20 and then argue that said hindsight is not 20/20).

the media is also going to play the hindsight game.

As they, we and, or course, the police should. As noted above, hindsight helps people avoid making the same mistakes again. That is, unless you think the world is perfect and no one should take stock of anything they do. You never think over what you have done and try to learn from it? I should hope that is not the case. Do you generally berate people that do? I again should hope not.

maybe you could help me what you mean by "one of the surgical hospitals" since the one in Nagoya stated specifically that Ichihashi looked completely different from the "wanted" pictures.

Heh, funny you paste a Japanese quote with the answer to your question and you don't even notice. Do you read what you paste?

既にほかで手術をしていたため

'Because he had already had previous surgeries...'. I guess I understand why you don't read what others write, you did not seem to read what you wrote. Why bother pasting something you did not read in Japanese? Again, he had been to more than one surgical hospital, as even noted in the quote that you provided, although you did not seem to notice it. So, of course he was going to look different than the wanted posters at that point. I also wrote that very same thing above. However, again you seem not to have noticed that. I and some in the media were merely suggesting if each of the surgical hospitals had been provided with the photo, it could have been used when he first appeared at the hospital. There is nothing wrong with this statement and it is a true statement. In contrast, in your previous post, you not only seemed to be against the idea of wanted posters being sent to cosmetic surgeries, but also against them in general suggesting they had little meaning.

nigelboy,

Sorry, I mistakenly hit the submit button. To continue:

According to NPA stats, the apprehension/arrest rate for muder is around 97% and has been around the mid 90 percentile for a long time.

Umm...why are you writing this to me? I agree 100% with this and have never written anything to take away from the hard work the police do. As I wrote in my first post on this thread (which it seem again you have not read), I agreed with smartacus when he wrote that readers should understand how difficult it is to crack a murder case and should give the police a break. I continued with the suggestion that this case will help the police become even more effective in the future. Did you see that? Even more effective. As you wrote, nobody is perfect. However, only the foolish would not want to avoid future avoidable mistakes. That is why 'hindsight' is important and why berating (as you did) attempts to avoid the same mistakes in the future is counterproductive.

so forgive me for putting some perspective on these armchair detectives with their "coulda woulda shoulda, after the fact, hindsight" analysis.

No, I cannot 'forgive' you (I know you are being sarcastic here), because you specifically chose my post to which to respond without really reading it and you went so far as to even suggest that wanted posters in general have no meaning. There is nothing wrong with reviewing procedures to avoid mistakes. In fact, you have been doing exactly the same thing in your responses in this thread. You have been guessing as to how things would have been different if other things had been done and whether they would have been more or less effective.

There was absolutely nothing abnormal or unusual about my reported suggestion and there was no reason for the attitude you took in responding to it. Try reading what people write more carefully before you post.

Umm...If 'as always, hindsight is 20/20 (you know, perfect or correct) ', then you have already admitted my 'hindsight' was correct. Then, amusingly, you attempt to incorrectly argue against it.

Also, 'hindsight' is one of the reasons people do not make the same mistakes again (for example, now you won't use the expression 'hindsight is 20/20 and then argue that said hindsight is not 20/20).

No kinniku. My point about hindsight is that people including yourself have cricized the police based on benefit of knowing the fact Ichihashi did or try to do in the past when not a single soul especially in this site suggested about sending pictures about clinics during which time he was at large. Only when the strong evidence that he was using such clinics surfaced that the armchair detectives started with their "woulda coulda shoulda".

And secondly, do you think for a moment that passing out pictures to clinics immediately after his escape would of caught the guy if Ichihashi decided to have a sugery two years after? What good that's that going to do when the pictures at the clinics are tucked away in a file? Sure it would of worked if Ichihashi happens to come by certain clinics after few days when the pictures were distributed. But like I said before, that's no more effective than a posters we see outside kobans if Ichihashi didn't show up for these clinics two years after.

I mean if it's that simple, all the police has to do is distribute Ichihashi's pictures to every household in Japan. But that's not going to be "effective" because people will lose interest.

So to answer your post above, it is not a "mistake"as you claim when the police cannot predict EXACTLY what Ichihashi is going to do while he is at large.

nigelboy,

including yourself have cricized the police

Please point to ONE place where I have criticized the police. I have not done so. Again, you are incorrect and show that you do not read what people write before responding.

not a single soul especially in this site suggested about sending pictures about clinics during which time he was at large

Just because someone does not suggest something correct before does not mean the suggestion is incorrect when suggested later. Your argument continues not to make much sense.

Only when the strong evidence that he was using such clinics surfaced that the armchair detectives started with their "woulda coulda shoulda".

Ummm...the police had suggested for some time that Ichihashi was attempting to change his appearance. They even put out a poster of him looking like a female. So, the suggestion that in future sending photos to plastic surgeons may be effective is completely valid.

passing out pictures to clinics immediately after his escape would of caught the guy if Ichihashi decided to have a sugery two years after?

Yes, if the clinic had the photo and compared it with the man in front of them.

What good that's that going to do when the pictures at the clinics are tucked away in a file?

Again, try reading what people write, I answered this already. First, there are not that many murders in Japan. If there is a NATIONAL manhunt, it was follow there are wanted posters. If there is a suspicion that the suspect will attempt to change their appearance, as there apparently was in this case, then sending photos to hospitals makes perfect sense and certainly could not have hurt.

that's no more effective than a posters we see outside kobans if Ichihashi didn't show up for these clinics two years after.

Why? If the photo matches the person, it was be effective. Certainly the media blitz of the last few days helped to have Ichihashi captured.

But that's not going to be "effective" because people will lose interest.

Yeah, right. Like the ferry employee lost interest...NOT.

it is not a "mistake"as you claim when the police cannot predict EXACTLY what Ichihashi is going to do while he is at large.

Who is talking about "exacts"? I am merely suggesting that since it was a possibility that he was going to change his appearance that sending photos would have been helpful. You have written absolutely nothing to prove it would not have been.

A big "arigato" to the J-cops for finally catching the SOB. I trust that the Japanese judiciary system will deal him in their own way. After all this is Japan, and we basically have no right to lecture to the Japanese, for it is a sovereign nation. If we don't like here, we should all just go home. In any country, one rotten apple spoils the whole bunch. Plain and simple.

After all this is Japan, and we basically have no right to lecture to the Japanese, for it is a sovereign nation.

Nonsense.

nigelboy,

As I wrote above, I am merely suggesting that since it was a possibility that he was going to change his appearance that sending photos would have been helpful.

National Police Agency Police Chief Takaharu Ando agrees with me.

警察庁の安藤隆 春長官は「今後は、容疑者の写真を整形外科医院に手配することを 検討する」と述べました。

Translation: National Police Agency Police Chief Takaharu Ando stated that “We will consider sending photos of suspects to plastic surgery hospital from now on.” http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uddN7kB8cdc&NR=1

Yup. That's gotta sting, huh? Anyway, I will wait for your apology for incorrectly accusing me of criticizing the police, which is something I have never done. Quite the opposite in fact.

Ummm...the police had suggested for some time that Ichihashi was attempting to change his appearance. They even put out a poster of him looking like a female. So, the suggestion that in future sending photos to plastic surgeons may be effective is completely valid.

Considering he had little money (50,000 yen according to some reports) at the time of escape, plastic surgery was not considered an option at that time nor in the immediate future. Hence, it makes perfect sense to narrow your search to where he would be hiding/frequenting/working. The bottom line is that if he couldn't earn the money, there would no plastic surgery.

Yes, if the clinic had the photo and compared it with the man in front of them.

And that applies to handing out pictures to every household and business establishments doesn't it?

try reading what people write, I answered this already. First, there are not that many murders in Japan. If there is a NATIONAL manhunt, it was follow there are wanted posters. If there is a suspicion that the suspect will attempt to change their appearance, as there apparently was in this case, then sending photos to hospitals makes perfect sense and certainly could not have hurt.

I'm going to answer the above by replacing some phrases in your last setence.

"If there is a suspicion that the suspect will try to earn money, as there apparently in this case, then sending photos to business establishements makes perfect sense and certainly could not hurt"

Why? If the photo matches the person, it was be effective. Certainly the media blitz of the last few days helped to have Ichihashi captured.

Yes. Thank you. It became news because of his new image. I stated previously on this thread that..

"Those were just a couple of "credible" leads out of thousands that the police decided to release to the media. If the police released every bit of information (without verifying the credibility), the general public would lose the interest and the awareness level would not have been there."

An example is a direct mail advertisement. You'd be lucky to glance at it if you happen to be interested in a certain product/services but in most cases, that goes into a trash bin.

Psycologist Kageyama summarizes it best.

不安心理から（市橋容疑者を）整形に走ったものの、整形したことが報道されて、かえって目立つ結果となってしまった」

"Because of his anxiety he chose plastic surgery. And the fact that his surgery was reported increased his exposure"

Which by the way, reinvigorated the public attention which lead to his capture.

Who is talking about "exacts"? I am merely suggesting that since it was a possibility that he was going to change his appearance that sending photos would have been helpful. You have written absolutely nothing to prove it would not have been.

If we're talking about changing appearances, how about sending photos to barbers/salons? My point is that the possibilities are endless including sending to construction companies that hired Ichihashi which enabled him to earn enough money to get the plastic surgery.

Yup. That's gotta sting, huh?

Not really. I knew about the Chiefs statement before. This kneejerk statement if it is applied means that there will be less man work hours allocated to future criminals' to other avenues which have lead to capture of past fugitives.

http://mainichi.jp/select/jiken/coldcase/fugitive/news/20081029ddm041040126000c.html

http://mainichi.jp/select/jiken/coldcase/fugitive/news/20081028ddm041040019000c.html

nigelboy,

Considering he had little money (50,000 yen according to some reports) at the time of escape, plastic surgery was not considered an option at that time nor in the immediate future.

I never wrote that the police thought he was immediately going to change his appearance. It was later that the police suggested that. A police case is a living breathing thing, it changes over time and so does the police reaction to it. Again, you really need to start reading what people write.

The bottom line is that if he couldn't earn the money, there would no plastic surgery.

Your point is what exactly? He was on the run for over two years and obviously did earn enough money over time.

And that applies to handing out pictures to every household and business establishments doesn't it?

Do you not read the news? The police did give out posters to households and business establishments. They did not give them to plastic surgery hospitals. When trying to catch someone, it is a game of numbers and, in many cases luck, for the police in addition to the regular detective work involved. Obviously the more people thought to have a chance to see him being passed a photo to look at the better chance of capturing him.

I'm going to answer the above by replacing some phrases in your last setence.

Go for it.

"If there is a suspicion that the suspect will try to earn money, as there apparently in this case, then sending photos to business establishements makes perfect sense and certainly could not hurt"

Heh, you are selective in what you read in the news, huh? As I wrote, the police did pass out and send flyers, posters and photos to business establisments. Maybe you should know a bit about your subject before you shoot your mouth off.

An example is a direct mail advertisement. You'd be lucky to glance at it if you happen to be interested in a certain product/services but in most cases, that goes into a trash bin.

Ummm...I always look at things before I put them in the trash. I would imagine most people do.

Which by the way, reinvigorated the public attention which lead to his capture.

It certainly made it stronger, but I disagree with the idea that the public was not interested up to that point. The Japanese are quite vigilant when it comes to crime and criminals and when it comes to capturing them.

If we're talking about changing appearances, how about sending photos to barbers/salons?

Before I answer let me ask you, how do you know that they didn't? After all, you did not know the police had sent flyers to business establishments, did you? However, the chances are much more unlikely that he would go to a barber. One only needs a pair of scissors and some hair dye to do those kinds of changes and it would not be worth it for a fugitive to risk going to a barber/salon. The same is not true of plastic surgery. Common sense.

Not really. I knew about the Chiefs statement before.

Sorry, I do not believe you. If you had heard the POLICE CHIEF'S statement before saying EXACTLY what I wrote, you would not have incorrectly accused me of CRITICIZING the POLICE. I am still waiting for that apology for your incorrect claim, by the way.

This kneejerk statement if it is applied means that there will be less man work hours allocated to future criminals' to other avenues which have lead to capture of past fugitives.

First of all, I really wish you would not criticize the police using hindsight like that. The police agree with my conclusion

Second, your assumption that sending flyers to plastic surgeries, when they sent them to other business establisments, would somehow prevent the Japanese police from solving cases is unfounded and ridiculous.

Still waiting for that apology for your completely incorrect accusation that I was criticizing the police. As anyone can see, I have never done that. Quite the opposite. In fact, the National Police Agency Police Chief agrees with what I wrote and stated so. Yup, it's gotta sting. Probably better for you to start actually reading what people write before posting. It would also be better if you tried not to criticize the police as you did in your above post. It merely sounds like what it is, sour grapes.

I never wrote that the police thought he was immediately going to change his appearance. It was later that the police suggested that. A police case is a living breathing thing, it changes over time and so does the police reaction to it. Again, you really need to start reading what people write.

It was later suggested that he may change his appearance as a "woman" using a wig. Of course, any fugitive on the run is going to change his/her appearance. This is a no brainer. But to what extent they go is another matter. That is the point.

Your point is what exactly? He was on the run for over two years and obviously did earn enough money over time.

To narrow your investigation since personnel/man hours are limited. Just because he's been on the run for over two years does not mean he made enough to save money. Just because he happened to save substantial sums of money doesn't me he'll resort to cosmetic surgery. Just because Ichihashi did those things does not mean the future and current fugitives are going to follow the same paths as the past fugitives the police caught.

Do you not read the news? The police did give out posters to households and business establishments. They did not give them to plastic surgery hospitals. When trying to catch someone, it is a game of numbers and, in many cases luck, for the police in addition to the regular detective work involved. Obviously the more people thought to have a chance to see him being passed a photo to look at the better chance of capturing him.

Did they send them to "every" household and business establishments? Before you criticize someone of not reading, I suggest you do the same.

Ummm...I always look at things before I put them in the trash. I would imagine most people do.

I would imagine that most people would glance it over, and go "not another Ichihashi pictures", and go straight to the trash. And I would venture to say that majority of business establishments will do the same. The police in Japan generally sites two reasons why it becomes difficult to capture fugitives. 無関心　（Disinterest) and 相互不干渉 (Non involvment in other parties affairs). In this case, what made the general public more interested is the fact that he did change his appearance which lead to more heightened awareness as the psychologist sited previously addressed. If the police informed the media of every possible leads without credibility, the general public will lose interest and if that's the case, the media stops reporting about it.

It certainly made it stronger, but I disagree with the idea that the public was not interested up to that point. The Japanese are quite vigilant when it comes to crime and criminals and when it comes to capturing them.

In general, they are not "quite vigilant" when it comes to crime and criminals and when it comes to capturing them as addressed in my previous paragraph.

http://shadow9.seesaa.net/article/108676645.html

This is why the issue of using public funds for award money was implemented couple years ago.

The general public tends to lose interest when the same info/picture is recycled over and over. This case, especially, is a an example of that.

Before I answer let me ask you, how do you know that they didn't? After all, you did not know the police had sent flyers to business establishments, did you? However, the chances are much more unlikely that he would go to a barber. One only needs a pair of scissors and some hair dye to do those kinds of changes and it would not be worth it for a fugitive to risk going to a barber/salon. The same is not true of plastic surgery. Common sense.

Common sense tells you that Ichihashi is hiding in a underground district and frequenting internet cafe's which the police were concentrating on during the investigation. Can't confirm that he was working in those type of establishments but we know now that he was indeed using internet cafes. My point is that you concentrate on these "common sense" establishments first and foremost and continue to do so until a new credible lead on his whereabouts are confirmed. Just because Ichihashi happens to use cosmetic surgery should not be a boiler plate investigation method for future fugitives as even the police chief qualified his statement with (今後必要に応じ).

nigelboy,

In contrast to yourself, since I have never, from the beginning been speaking in absolutes, nothing you have written in your latest response detracts from my suggestion that it is possible it would have been helpful to send photos to hospitals. Let us look at your comments specifically and see why they have generally added nothing to the conversation, shall we?

It was later suggested that he may change his appearance as a "woman" using a wig.

Yes. So? They found a wig in his apartment that led to the police suggestion a year later. They were hoping for a lucky lead as police are want to do. I am suggesting that sending his photo to hospitals would have also been wise to try. The National Police Chief agrees with me.

To narrow your investigation since personnel/man hours are limited.

Are you reading what I write? This sentence does not even respond to what you quoted from me. Plus, I NEVER suggested narrowing the investigation. In fact, that is what YOU have been suggesting. Are you having trouble keeping track of what we are talking about?

Just because he's been on the run for over two years does not mean he made enough to save money. Just because he happened to save substantial sums of money doesn't me he'll resort to cosmetic surgery. Just because Ichihashi did those things does not mean the future and current fugitives are going to follow the same paths as the past fugitives the police caught.

Of course it doesn't. No one, including either myself or the National Police Chief, who agrees with me, have ever spoke in absolutes. You are the only one here speaking in absolutes. That is why you are mistaken.

Did they send them to "every" household and business establishments? Before you criticize someone of not reading, I suggest you do the same.

It was a ridiculous question and a ridiculous notion and I did not take you seriously. You seem to lose track of the conversation quickly. You are suggesting sending photos to hospitals would take away from solving murder cases, which I have suggested is both ridiculous and unfounded. Then you suggest they spend an impossible amount of manpower on the impossible task of handing a photo to each and every citizen and resident in Japan. Sorry, again, that does not make much sense.

I would imagine that most people would glance it over, and go "not another Ichihashi pictures", and go straight to the trash.

If they recognize the man, that would be the goal of passing out the papers. That would increase the chances of capture. That is all the police are hoping for. However, now you seem to be arguing against wanted posters in general, which, again, does not make sense as they have helped to capture fugitives in the past. The rest of your paragraph talking about 'disinterest', including the couple of Japanese words to explain simple English words (which you tend to use strange English to explain), adds nothing new to the conversation, nor does it take away from what I wrote.

what made the general public more interested is the fact that he did change his appearance which lead to more heightened awareness as the psychologist sited previously addressed.

However, I found it interesting you are not aware that phone calls to the police actually DECREASED, not INCREASED, after the new images were shown by police.

In general, they are not "quite vigilant" when it comes to crime and criminals and when it comes to capturing them as addressed in my previous paragraph.

You did not address that at all. You merely suggested that over time it becomes more difficult to capture fugitives. Of course, this is only natural and I have never written anything to say it is not. I have merely suggested and the National Police Chief agrees, that as the investigation continues new methods should be considered and I suggested sending photos to hospitals as one of these suggestions. This does not mean Japanese people are not quite vigilant about crime and criminals.

The general public tends to lose interest when the same info/picture is recycled over and over. This case, especially, is a an example of that.

No, not only that. The picture that police had no longer mattered because it did not match the fugitive. That was the biggest problem in finding him.

Common sense tells you that Ichihashi is hiding in a underground district and frequenting internet cafe's which the police were concentrating on during the investigation. Can't confirm that he was working in those type of establishments but we know now that he was indeed using internet cafes.

I have no problem with this and have written nothing to say this line of investigation was wrong.

My point is that you concentrate on these "common sense" establishments first and foremost and continue to do so until a new credible lead on his whereabouts are confirmed.

Yes, and the National Police Chief and I are suggesting sending photos of the number one subject of a national manhunt to hospitals can also be common sense.

Just because Ichihashi happens to use cosmetic surgery should not be a boiler plate investigation method for future fugitives as even the police chief qualified his statement with (今後必要に応じ).

The National Police Chief and I NEVER said it should be a 'boiler plate' investigation method. I quoted the National Police Chief as saying they were 'considering' (検討)it and I merely suggested it be considered. Why is it you are just noticing it now? Again, you have added nothing new to the conversation and are just repeating what has already been written. You are the only one suggesting 'boiler plate investigation methods' and absolutes. I have merely been suggesting possibilities. I am still waiting for the apology for your completely incorrect accusation that I was criticizing the police. It was you above that did that. The most honorable thing for you to do now would be to admit both that my suggestion, which the National Police Chief agrees with, should at least be considered on a case by case basis and that you were mistaken when you mistakenly jumped in and wrongly accused me of criticizing the police, which as anyone can see I have never done.

Yes. So? They found a wig in his apartment that led to the police suggestion a year later. They were hoping for a lucky lead as police are want to do. I am suggesting that sending his photo to hospitals would have also been wise to try. The National Police Chief agrees with me.

That is not what the National Police Chief stated. He merely stated that the police will consider sending photos to clinics if necessity arises meaning that if there is a strong evidence that he/she will use such means, then they will consider it. What you are insisting is that the photos should have been sent before the first sugery ever took place when given the evidence at hand at the time, this may not be applicable. Now looking back, was there a strong evidence that Ichihashi was going to use a clinic? No. Because when he escaped, he left his wallet and the police concluded that he fled the scene with no more than 50,000 yen.

The below link has some archived articles about the possible whereabouts of Ichihashi by experts a few months after the incident. Interesting note here is a former police investigator stated at that time that he is most likely hiding where he could maintaing his anonyminity and rest where there are heavy concentration on overnight stay and that there are many ways to earn just enough through manual labor.

http://nazo.fujirink.com/?cid=31959 市橋容疑者の所持金は少なく、自動車などの移動手段も持っていないと見られる。「匿名性の高い場所、簡易宿泊街などに身を隠し、肉体労働などで日銭を稼ぐなど手段はいくらでもある」とした上で「コンビニなどの強盗、ひったくりをするのではないか」と指摘する。

My question to you now is at what point and where should the police started investigating the clinics? Please bear in mind that police personnel/hours a limited and it would mean that they have to pass out the pictures personally on clinic to clinic basis as Dr. Omori stated.

同学会によると、指名手配犯の顔写真なども学会を通じた連絡手段があるわけではなく、各警察が病院に注意を呼びかける場合は、病院に対し、個別に手配写真などを配布していくのだという。

Please also bear in mind by doing so, you are allocating less personnel/man hours to other credible whereabouts as referenced previously. Please also bear in mind that Ichihashi is only the second fugitive apprehended where he/she used plastic surgery. I'm curious to know your answer because you seem to assume that NP Chief would consider sending pictures before a fugitive tries to use the clinic where I'm under assumption that “今後必要に応じ” means that there are strong evidence in place which to me means evidence that he had in fact used or try to use the clinics.

However, I found it interesting you are not aware that phone calls to the police actually DECREASED, not INCREASED, after the new images were shown by police.

"整形後の市橋容疑者の写真を公開してから６日正午までに、２００件以上の情報が寄せられていたことが分かった。"

After the release of the new picture to noon on the 6th, there were over 200 tips.

"捜査本部には事件発生から先月末までの間に７５００件を超える情報が入っていたが、２年半以上がたった最近では、１日平均２～３件ほどしか情報がなかった。"

From the time of the incident until the end of October, there were over 7,500 leads. After two and half years since the incident, recently, they only received on avereage 2-3 leads.

http://headlines.yahoo.co.jp/hl?a=20091106-00000610-san-soci

It was a ridiculous question and a ridiculous notion and I did not take you seriously.

The reason why I repeat that statement is the you operate under the assumption the police force personnel/manpower/funds are without limits. So now that you agree that it's not, the issue is how those limited resources are to be utilized best as much as possible. And given the evidence and leads at that time, it did not call out for handing out pictures to clinics door to door nor shall it apply to present/future fugitives.

Now going back a few messages, I'm curious to know where you got this from?

I further was merely reporting that one of the surgical hospitals themselves had suggested that if they had been provided with a photo of Ichihashi that they would have been able to recognize him.

That is not what the National Police Chief stated. He merely stated that the police will consider sending photos to clinics if necessity arises meaning that if there is a strong evidence that he/she will use such means, then they will consider it.

Ummm...Yes, he did say that and what you wrote is EXACTLY what I said. He said they should consider it and I said they should consider it and you jump in and tried to claim there is no reason to consider it. You have been suggesting they should never consider it. The Police Chief and I think you are wrong. Obviously the police chief is considering it because it would have possibly been helpful (IE wise) to have done it this time. As I have been saying all along. Again, you are merely repeating yourself and in addition are using my words. Read what I write CAREFULLY before you respond and you might realize you have no argument left.

What you are insisting is that the photos should have been sent before the first sugery ever took place when given the evidence at hand at the time, this may not be applicable.

Lots of what police do may not be 'applicable'. As I have repeated for your benefit many times already, chasing a fugitive is a numbers game. The longer the fugitive is out the higher the chance they have changed their appearance. Anyway, Ichihashi is not the first long term wanted person in Japan to change his appearance using plastic surgery and because of the publicity of this case, I doubt he will be the last. Is it possible he would not do plastic surgery? Of course it is. Just as it was possible he was getting money from friends or relatives. EVERY logical path should be considered. You have been insisting that investigations should be done EXACTLY the way they have been up to now and I think that is unrealistic.

The below link has some archived articles about the possible whereabouts of Ichihashi by experts a few months after the incident...

Sigh...Again (and again and again), I am not suggesting that plastic surgery should always be considered as a possibility. No one is suggesting that. I was not suggesting they start sending photos the minute he escaped as you seem to be suggesting with your quote. However, once a reasonable period of time has passed (obviously this would be one a case by case basis), I think it is reasonable to CONSIDER the idea. You have been insisting it NEVER is reasonable to CONSIDER it and you are wrong.

My question to you now is at what point and where should the police started investigating the clinics?

In Ichihara's case? Well, I admit I am not one of the detectives that was assigned to the case. However, I would suggest that around March of 2008 would have been a logical time to consider it when they started to suspect he had attempted to change his appearance. I would never suggest that this would have guaranteed capture. However, in this case, it would have made his capture more likely. That is what I am saying all along. Considering his relative success, I think it is possible that other people will now attempt the same thing.

Please bear in mind that police personnel/hours a limited and it would mean that they have to pass out the pictures personally on clinic to clinic basis as Dr. Omori stated.

I disagree with the premise that police would need to pass out the photos personally. Obviously that is not the only way wanted posters are given out in Japan and it would not always be necessary in this case.

Please also bear in mind that Ichihashi is only the second fugitive apprehended where he/she used plastic surgery.

Ichihashi's case now makes the possibility that someone in the future will try it again much more likely. The price of these surgeries are getting cheaper as well which increases the likelihood that someone will attempt it in the future.

Please also bear in mind by doing so, you are allocating less personnel/man hours to other credible whereabouts as referenced previously.

Yes. Obviously any method takes away time from other methods. However, I disagree with your blanket and unfounded statement that it would prevent other fugitives from being caught.

However, I found it interesting you are not aware that phone calls to the police actually DECREASED, not INCREASED, after the new images were shown by police.

Sorry, my DECREASED and INCREASED were backwards. I was merely saying that wanted posters do work and that it was the images of Ichihashi that got him arrested. You have been suggesting that wanted posters do not work. I was suggesting that this is evidence that they do.

The reason why I repeat that statement is the you operate under the assumption the police force personnel/manpower/funds are without limits.

Baloney. I have never made any such suggestion. Please stick with what I write. It is your assumption that by sending photos to hospitals that it means other fuigtives will NOT be caught. You have made that suggestion.

So now that you agree that it's not, the issue is how those limited resources are to be utilized best as much as possible.

Yes, and you say photos should NEVER be sent to clinics. The Police Chief and I think you are wrong...and you are.

And given the evidence and leads at that time

Sorry. As much as you think you are, you are not qualified nor knowledgable enough about what the evidence and leads in the case were to make this statement.

Now going back a few messages, I'm curious to know where you got this from?

Nope. No more free informational tips for you. First, I am still waiting for the apology for your completely incorrect accusation that I was criticizing the police. It was you above that did that. The most honorable thing for you to do now would be to admit both that my suggestion, which the National Police Chief agrees with, should at least be considered on a case by case basis and that you were mistaken when you mistakenly jumped in and wrongly accused me of criticizing the police, which as anyone can see I have never done. Then I will respond.

Ummm...Yes,

The quote I was responding to was "I am suggesting that sending his photo to hospitals would have also been wise to try." which is obviously not the chief said. But then again, as ambiguous and empty as Chief's "We will think about the possibility of sending pictures to clinics if we feel it's necessary" knee-jerk-appease-the-public-for-now-comment, one could intepret it that way.

Lots of what police do may not be 'applicable'. As I have repeated for your benefit many times already, chasing a fugitive is a numbers game. The longer the fugitive is out the higher the chance they have changed their appearance. Anyway, Ichihashi is not the first long term wanted person in Japan to change his appearance using plastic surgery and because of the publicity of this case, I doubt he will be the last. Is it possible he would not do plastic surgery? Of course it is. Just as it was possible he was getting money from friends or relatives. EVERY logical path should be considered. You have been insisting that investigations should be done EXACTLY the way they have been up to now and I think that is unrealistic.

As I continuously stated, I favor status quo because of the reasons I cited previously in that in a manhunt, there are limited number of police personnel. Hence, the police should concentrate, first and foremost,the whereabouts based on credible leads and evidence at hand and that includes the clinics(part of a business establishment) if and only if there is a strong evidence that suggest so. Just because they found a "wig" is not one of them. EVERY logical paths should be considered? Sure. I'm sure when Chiba Police were brainstorming, one officer may have brought up the possibility about the use of the cosmetic surgery along with many other possibilities. But you yourself have to admit that the list is endless and actually "considering" and "taking action" are two different things.

I'll give you credit for explaining your position when such pictures should be distributed but unfortunately, all you did was basically open up a whole can of worms since every fugitive who is wanted for heineous crime wants to change their appearance. This is a no brainer. If we were cite Ichihashi as an example, every futigitive on the below link should fit that profile.

http://www.npa.go.jp/wanted/index.htm

Sigh...Again (and again and again), I am not suggesting that plastic surgery should always be considered as a possibility.

Will you please grow a spine take a stand? You're sentences are too ambiguous like that of the Police chief.

Every fugitive who is wanted for henious crime (i.e.Murder) is going to want his/her appearance changed. Yes or No??

If you answered "Yes" to the above and if you truly believe that the Police chief agrees with you, then it won't be long before their pictures (18 fugitives) are distributed to the cosmetic clinics in the near future, right?

Sorry, my DECREASED and INCREASED were backwards.

No you didn't.

I was merely saying that wanted posters do work and that it was the images of Ichihashi that got him arrested. You have been suggesting that wanted posters do not work. I was suggesting that this is evidence that they do.

I never stated that "wanted posters" don't work. I pointed out the decrease in effectiveness when recycled the same thing over and over again. What I stated exactly was:

"In this case, what made the general public more interested is the fact that he did change his appearance which lead to more heightened awareness as the psychologist sited previously addressed. "

And for the second time, what the psychologist stated was:

不安心理から（市橋容疑者を）整形に走ったものの、整形したことが報道されて、かえって目立つ結果となってしまった」

"Because of his anxiety he chose plastic surgery. And the fact that his surgery was reported increased his exposure"

Nope. No more free informational tips for you.

Your whole argument is based on the premise of

"I further was merely reporting that one of the surgical hospitals themselves had suggested that if they had been provided with a photo of Ichihashi that they would have been able to recognize him."

It would of been nice to have a link to that source, that's all.

First, I am still waiting for the apology for your completely incorrect accusation that I was criticizing the police.

But you are criticizing the police.

"Criticize-To judge the merits and faults of; analyze and evaluate."

The quote I was responding to was "I am suggesting that sending his photo to hospitals would have also been wise to try." which is obviously not the chief said.

It is obvious that this is what the chief meant as the reason he was making the statement is that everyone knows had they sent photos to cosmetic surgeries they would have possibly increased the chance of him being caught.

knee-jerk-appease-the-public-for-now-comment

Now, THIS is criticizing (will get to your knowingly (?) incomplete definition of the word later) the police. The chief is merely showing that the police are attempting to learn from experience. If you really attempt to think about it you will see there is nothing to criticize there. However, again, it is ironic that you criticize (will get to your knowingly (?) incomplete definition of the word later)the police while incorrectly suggesting I was criticizing them.

As I continuously stated, I favor status quo because of the reasons I cited previously in that in a manhunt, there are limited number of police personnel.

As I have continuously stated, the idea that police would have had to personally hand out the photos nationwide is incorrect and unrealistic and does not match police procedure. So, the amount of man hours you are attempting to suggest would be necessary would not.

Hence, the police should concentrate, first and foremost,the whereabouts based on credible leads and evidence at hand and that includes the clinics(part of a business establishment) if and only if there is a strong evidence that suggest so.

However, there were voices in the police and former NPA detectives suggesting that Ichihashi might use plastic surgery. In fact, an article in December of last year here shown in January of this year on JT has a quote from one former NPA detective suggesting that if Ichihashi gets plastic surgery that it will make him hard to catch. Some other things to consider, you were incorrect when you said only one other person in Japan used plastic surgery to attempt to allude police. Members of Aum also did this. Ichihashi came from a medical family. Although it now seems unlikely, it was thought by former detectives of the NPA that Ichihashi's family might give him financial help. In Japan, people can get cosmetic surgery with relative ease. If you have the cash, you do not need to correctly identify yourself and you do not need to show any national or social insurance card. You can be anyone and get it done with no questions asked. So, yes. There were not only suggestions within the police, there was also a system in place that makes it fairly easy to do so. That is why I think, if both the police and the system are not changed, we will possibly see more cases like this in the future.

If we were cite Ichihashi as an example, every futigitive on the below link should fit that profile.

There are not that many people that are the subject of a Japanese national dragnet. Ichihashi was the number one subject of a national manhunt. The others on your list don't fit that situation.

Every fugitive who is wanted for henious crime (i.e.Murder) is going to want his/her appearance changed. Yes or No??

As I said, this is a case by case situation. However, the case of Ichihashi was quite different from the other cases that you linked. Ichihashi was the number one subject of a national manhunt. The police felt pressure to capture him because of criticism they received about the way Ichihashi got away from them when they first went to capture him. Obviously if the police are going after the number 1 subject of a manhunt, sending photos to hospitals would be logical. Obviously more effort should be put into a case which the police consider more of a priority. However, I would have no problem with updated pictures of all 18 wanted people being sent to hospitals. Again, there is no need to have them lovingly and personally delivered by the police. Police often fax, mail or email such notices as well.

No you didn't.

I was merely attempt to reiterate my strong conclusion that seeing the photo helped Ichihashi get captured. Further, even if the photo was just 'tossed in a file' at the hospital as you suggest. If the original faced Ichihashi were to walk in, it would be a simple task to say 'Hey, didn't I see that face before?' 'Let's look in that wanted photo file.' 'Hey, it's him!" Though I do admit in my excitement to type my response, I wrote it incorrectly. Hey, my grammar and spelling haven't been that great in this thread either.

I pointed out the decrease in effectiveness when recycled the same thing over and over again.

However, if hospitals have the original picture of the number one subject of a nation-wide manhunt, it follows he would be more easily recognized. BTW, I don't think it was the 'recycling' that was the problem. It was the fact that Ichihasi didn't even look like what the posters showed anymore. So, of course, they will be less effective over time if he has changed his appearance. That is why it might have been helpful if hospitals had the original photo to compare him to.

"Because of his anxiety he chose plastic surgery. And the fact that his surgery was reported increased his exposure"

I have not disagreed with this, so there was no need to repeat it. However, it was the existence of the photo itself, that match Ichihashi's appearance that led to his arrest. An original photo sent to a hospital could have reasonably had the same result.

Your whole argument is based on the premise of

"I further was merely reporting that one of the surgical hospitals themselves had suggested that if they had been provided with a photo of Ichihashi that they would have been able to recognize him."

The night he was captured, one of the TV stations interviewed several hospitals, one I believe was in Fukuoka, that made this suggestion and also stated that they had never been given a photo of the suspect. I have not seen this specifically in print. It was on the news the night he was captured.

But you are criticizing the police.

"Criticize-To judge the merits and faults of; analyze and evaluate."

Umm...please. You were not using this definition in your response to me. Let's look at a more complete definition, shall we?

1 : to consider the merits and demerits of and judge accordingly : evaluate 2 : to openly find fault with : to openly point out the faults of

I was not and am not finding fault. I am not being disapproving of the police, which is exactly what you meant by your comment that I was 'criticizing the police'. Now, I am still waiting for the apology for your completely incorrect accusation that I was criticizing the police. It was you above that did that. The most honorable thing for you to do now would be to admit both that my suggestion, which the National Police Chief agrees with, should at least be considered on a case by case basis and that you were mistaken when you mistakenly jumped in and wrongly accused me of criticizing the police, which as anyone can see I have never done. Weighing the pros and cons of something is very different from opening and disapprovingly finding fault with something, which you incorrectly accused me of doing. Still waiting for the apology that I am due.