Kagoshima woman held over murder of her 3 children

KAGOSHIMA —

Police on Sunday arrested a 37-year-old woman for allegedly strangling her three children to death on Saturday afternoon at their home in Kagoshima.

According to police, the suspect, identified as Satomi Fukutomi allegedly killed her sons aged 10 and 8, and her 4-year-old daughter some time after 3 p.m., TV Asahi reported. Her 39-year-old husband was at work at the time and discovered the bodies when he returned home at about 8 p.m.

Police said the woman had slit her wrists in an apparent suicide attempt, but is in a stable condition, TV Asahi reported. Police quoted her as saying that she wanted to kill herself and see her children. So far, the suspect has given no motive for the killings, TV Asahi reported.

Neighbors told TV media they were surprised at the murders and said the family seemed a happy one.

Japan Today

  • 2

    Tan Sharon

    It so sad to see this happening over n over again. Most japanese mother is suffering from post natal depression and manic depression. And most case there are spouse is not aware about the sign of depression.

  • 2

    smithinjapan

    Sick woman, and poor husband -- to come home and find that! Why can't people like this woman seek help? or at WORST, try suicide BEFORE harming the innocent children? RIP to the kids. I hope the woman gets some help before a very, very long prison sentence.

  • 1

    NeverSubmit

    Betcha she was on medication.

  • -1

    Franchesca Miyara Yang

    Ha! They always seem a "happy one" here in Japan. (Nobody ever seem to have a clue about anything!)

    Well, 3 innocent children were murdered at the hands of this "subhuman" but knowing that this is Japan, she will NOT go to prison. She will be given extreme leniency and a nice 5 year probation period for "first time murder in the family" which is the norm with these type of atrocities committed against your own blood. I have a family member working inside the court and I know how often these so called "justice" verdicts are delivered. These child murderers go unpunished as long as they kill their own kids, not someone else's. She will show remorse and say a few gomen nasai and she will get off scotfree.

    The problem is that Japan does not protect children and they are treated as one's property under current Japanese law.

  • 6

    Franchesca Miyara Yang

    Tan SharonMAR. 25, 2012 - 04:29PM JST

    It so sad to see this happening over n over again. Most japanese mother is suffering from post natal depression and manic depression. And most case there are spouse is not aware about the sign of depression.

    I could care less if this "thing" was depressed or on medication. I have 4 young children and I have been depressed, stressed, tensed, irritated, etc and I have SEEKED for help! Even when I couldn't speak one bit of Japanese, I asked for help. No shame in asking for help. It's unbelievable to read posts condoning what this monster did just because "she was a poor depressed mother, blah blah.." Poor babies..all dead, one by one. OMFG!

    Yet again, another Japanese "Andrea Yates" comes out of her dirthole.

  • 4

    ThonTaddeo

    "she wanted to kill herself and see her children"

    She was able to "see her children" every single day, before she murdered them.

    I feel for that poor father who had to come home to that, and for these children's grandparents, aunts, and uncles. My God.

  • 5

    BurakuminDes

    Rest in Peace to these three angels.

    Here we go again with the "blame everyone/everything else" for my actions. This evil person has callously and willfully murdered 3 innocent kids - she MUST swing - anything less is an insult to the memory of these little Angels.

  • 1

    DoLittleBeLate

    Well well. What would a Japanese news day be without reading about yet another Japanese parent murdering his/her own children? Can't really imagine a more vicious crime - other than its apparent non-stopping repetition, that is.

    What was daddy dear doing in the office on a saturday until 8 p.m anyway? Oh well, I'm sure it has no connection with all the exactly similar cases that end up the same.

    How many more failures will emerge?

  • -1

    tmarie

    Another day, another child murdered...

    I don't think postpartum goes on for ten yeas! Depression perhaps but certainly not postpartum.

    Selfish cow. That poor father. Japan needs to start dealing with unhappy home situations pronto. Getting women to work si they aren't trapped home in unhappy marriages would help. Now just to convince the female population that this is a good thing...

  • 0

    tmarie

    Dolittle, he out earning money to put food in the table. You have no idea of his job a d working conditions. Talk about blaming the victim!

  • 5

    Alphaape

    Neighbors told TV media they were surprised at the murders and said the family seemed a happy one.

    Translation: She did well in keeping her mental problems well hidden so that she put on a "happy face" and followed the plan of what was expected of her in the area.

    Like I have always said, my area seems nice and quiet, but every Friday when I take the bottles out to the garbage pick up location, I see bags with well over a case of beer cans and other bags of empty hard liquor bottles. A lot of people seem like they are drowning their sorrows.

  • 0

    Mirai Hayashi

    Most japanese mother is suffering from post natal depression and manic depression

    The youngest is 4...post natal depression.... really? There is NEVER a good excuse for killing your kids, or any kids for that matter...She should be hung!

    Police quoted her as saying that she wanted to kill herself and see her children.

    This sentence doesn't make sense!

  • 0

    oikawa

    Francesca Miyara Yang

    I could care less if this "thing" was depressed or on medication. I have 4 young children and I have been depressed, stressed, tensed, irritated, etc and I have SEEKED for help! Even when I couldn't speak one bit of Japanese, I asked for help. No shame in asking for help. It's unbelievable to read posts condoning what this monster did just because "she was a poor depressed mother, blah blah.." Poor babies..all dead, one by one. OMFG!

    I agree. Depression doesn't make you lose your cognitive abilities. I never read about similar instances of murder in other developed countries, probably because it isn't acceptable there, but nothing is done about it in Japan apart from some juvenile anti-suicide campaign with AKB or someone.

  • 2

    serendipitous

    BurakuminDes

    She probably wants to be executed so that would be the easy way out. She has already punished herself and her family, too. Of course she should not have done it but I'd be surprised if the father was a model husband and father. Maybe she wanted to somehow punish him for something (not helping at all or wanting to get a divorce). I know, just speculation but.....

  • 5

    FightingViking

    Neighbors told TV media they were surprised at the murders and said the family seemed a happy one.

    Translation: She did well in keeping her mental problems well hidden so that she put on a "happy face" and followed the plan of what was expected of her in the area.

    I am in NO WAY trying to defend the mother however, the "family SEEMED a happy one" - really got to me... NOBODY knows what goes on behind closed doors...

  • 1

    Seavey

    So far, the suspect has given no motive for the killings

    I think she did. She wanted to die herself, but still see her children in the afterlife without waiting for them to die on their own.

    Police quoted her as saying that she wanted to kill herself and see her children.

    As stupid, selfish and misguided as that is, its probably the clearest motive I have ever read about in a case of parents killing their children in Japan.

  • -2

    Ewan Huzarmy

    So she attempted suicide to see the children she had just murdered !?

    Typical 'pity me' excuse....How about NOT killing them, enabling you to see them everyday !

  • 0

    bajhista65

    Japanese women , not all of course, when they get married cannot cope with hard life when it comes. Mostly financial problems seem to be the monster. Yes the husband will do his part to earn for the family. The mother is left to budget, pay the loans, feed the kids, clean the house, do the laundries etc etc etc... but what if the salary of the husband won't meet the budget. That's how stressed and depressed the mother become and can no longer live with it.. Their could be a problem with the husband too that's why she doesn't want to leave the kids with him so better kids die with her. Families in Japan have so many domestic problems we just can't see becuase they are very secretive and pretend to be normal and happy. Deep inside they are suffering. So now the mother live... I am very sorry for her because she will carry the weight of what she has done to her children.

  • 1

    FightingViking

    Their could be a problem with the husband too that's why she doesn't want to leave the kids with him so better kids die with her.

    That's exactly what I meant when I said NOBODY knows what goes on behind closed doors...

  • 1

    Macpaul Emeka Ekwueme

    Slit her wrists in a suicide attempt? No kidding, like that would be fatal enough to take get out. She had the guts to strangle one kid after another but couldn't just tie the ropes around her neck. I say, gas this monster!

  • 0

    ambrosia

    This is truly a horrible situation all around. It's horrible for the husband, the grandparents and most of all the kids. That said, it's hard to imagine this being completely out of the blue, regardless of what the neighbors say. If this was completely out of the blue then the husband has all of my sympathy. If not and he willfully turned a blind eye because that was easier than dealing with what was going on at home, then he is at least morally culpable, if not legally.

    Moderator: Readers, please do not attempt to bad-mouth the husband in this case.

  • 0

    borscht

    Postpartum or postnatal depression doesn't last four years. Typically it occurs within and for a few months after birth.

  • 0

    ambrosia

    I'm not saying the mother did or didn't have post-partum depression but if people are going to post claims that it doesn't last for more than a few months, the U.S. National Institute of Health would beg to disagree with you. As for a typical case, I'm not sure what that means or how it relates to this case since killing your three children is hardly typical behavior of any mother.

    "If left untreated, postpartum depression can last for months or years, and you may be at risk of harming yourself or your baby. The potential long-term complications are the same as in major depression."

  • 5

    yasukuni

    Predictable responses. Father kills children - he is evil. Mother kills children? Post natal depression, stress, husband working too long, husband not working enough, husband not earning enough, husband bad for not noticing that wife is stressed/ depressed/has post-natal depression etc. Society, the govt, the neighbors are too blame. You name it.

    How about these Japanese women in their 30's stop killing their kids?

  • -1

    myolin

    Thats the results of full with stress.

  • -1

    yourock

    do readers understand the exact meaning of post natal depression? Her youngest was 4. I hope she gets help, as a nervous breakdown has obviously occurred. I'm against the death penalty, full stop. Killing her won't help.

  • 0

    ambrosia

    Yasukuni: I think that the responses, right or wrong, are predictable for a reason. Right now, men are three times more likely than women to commit violent crimes and the act of filicide is still, thankfully, so shocking that people naturally want to understand why. Below is an excerpt from one of the more interesting articles on infanticide and filicide, particularly as to how it's viewed differently by society depending on whether or not it's the mother or father who does it. It's a quick but very interesting and informative read and may go some way in addressing your salient points. I think it's particularly relevant in Japan, where so many people still consider the home and raising the child to be the mother's sole domain.

    http://www.slate.com/articles/newsandpolitics/politics/2002/03/whenparentskill.single.html

    *Perhaps it comforts us to believe that anyone who violates the sacred mother-child bond is simply crazy; it would be unimaginable if these mothers were making rational criminal choices. And since women are not violent in other contexts, most scholars, including Oberman, argue that the majority of maternal murderers suffer from depression, postpartum psychoses, and other mental afflictions. But no one has put forth an analogous medical theory to explain whether fathers who kill their offspring are also depressed, isolated, or psychotic.

    Perhaps murderous mothers are no crazier than fathers. Perhaps murderous fathers are even crazier than mothers. Either way, the failure to view these crimes as morally or legally equivalent reflects a more central legal truth: We still view children as the mother's property. Since destroying one's own property is considered crazy while destroying someone else's property is criminal, women who murder their own children are sent to hospitals, whereas their husbands are criminals, who go to jail or the electric chair. Why does the legal system treat a mother who kills someone else's child as though she were a sociopathic killer while showing mercy toward a mom who drowns her own? For the same reason the law treats individuals who burn down other people's houses as criminals and institutionalizes those who burn down their own. Men are disproportionately jailed for filicide not because they are more evil than women but because we believe they have harmed a woman's property—as opposed to their own.*

  • 1

    Zybster

    And what do all of you know about her that you are so quick to judge her? Do you know what made her commit suicide? Do you know why she thought it would be better for her to kill her children? Do you think that she just woke up one morning and decided her daily schedule: breakfast, laundry, killing children, suicide?

    I don't know what happened to her and why she decided to end it all for herself and for her children, but I would suspect that she was at a point when she couldn't bear anything anymore. I don't know what pushed her to that point, so I can't judge her. Maybe she is as much the victim as the children?

  • -4

    Cos

    To kill a 10 year old boy, and then one of 8... uh, they can fight back. She seems * strong* for your next-door housewife. Does she have a background in fighting sports or even medicine ? Did she drug them ?

    do readers understand the exact meaning of post natal depression?

    Yess ! They are all doctors like you. And to read them, PND would be the only existing mental issue that may affect a mother, and diagnostic can be made via news articles.

  • -1

    ambrosia

    oikawa:
    I don't know what your background is that you can definitely say that depression doesn't cause cognitive dysfunction but there's a whole slew of academic research out there that contradicts you. Again, I'm not claiming to know why this woman did this but just that the amount of misinformation that comes out of people when articles like this appear does nothing to help women who may well and truly be suffering from postpartum depression and don't know what's going on or how to deal with it.

  • -1

    Franchesca Miyara Yang

    yasukuniMAR. 25, 2012 - 11:33PM JST

    Predictable responses. Father kills children - he is evil. Mother kills children? Post natal depression, stress, husband working too long, husband not working enough, husband not earning enough, husband bad for not noticing that wife is stressed/ depressed/has post-natal depression etc. Society, the govt, the neighbors are too blame. You name it.

    How about these Japanese women in their 30's stop killing their kids?

    BINGO!!

  • -2

    Franchesca Miyara Yang

    I wonder if people would still call for mercy and condone this murdering rampage if this killer happened to be the father.... No Post Natal Depression then? So it only affects "women"? LOL Double standards @ its finest.

    She could have seek help but she chose to kill the children. She's not human to me. Hang her high for all I care.

  • -3

    nigelboy

    Well, 3 innocent children were murdered at the hands of this "subhuman" but knowing that this is Japan, she will NOT go to prison. She will be given extreme leniency and a nice 5 year probation period for "first time murder in the family" which is the norm with these type of atrocities committed against your own blood. I have a family member working inside the court and I know how often these so called "justice" verdicts are delivered. These child murderers go unpunished as long as they kill their own kids, not someone else's. She will show remorse and say a few gomen nasai and she will get off scotfree.

    http://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/%e4%b8%ad%e6%b4%a5%e5%b7%9d%e4%b8%80%e5%ae%b66%e4%ba%ba%e6%ae%ba%e5%82%b7%e4%ba%8b%e4%bb%b6

    http://www.asyura.com/0610/nihon21/msg/200.html

    http://www.sc365.org/pc/201103/%E5%80%9F%E9%87%91%E8%BF%94%E6%B8%88%E3%81%AB%E8%A1%8C%E3%81%8D%E8%A9%B0%E3%81%BE%E3%82%8A%E5%A6%BB%E5%AD%903%E4%BA%BA%E6%AE%BA%E5%AE%B3%E3%81%AE%E7%84%A1%E7%90%86%E5%BF%83%E4%B8%AD%E3%80%80%E8%A2%AB/ http://ryukyushimpo.jp/news/storyid-158771-storytopic-193.html

    http://www.asyura2.com/0306/nihon5/msg/103.html

    http://mainichi.jp/area/yamaguchi/news/20120229ddlk35040313000c.html

    All those cases cited above have prison term from 2.5 years to Muki Choeki.

  • -1

    ambrosia

    yourock: Posters understand what they want to, meaning if it's easier to think that Japanese women are more prone to infanticide and filicide than women of any other culture, then that's what they'll understand. If it's easier to imagine criminals as less than human then that's what they'll understand. It's easy to characterize this as a particularly Japanese problem and to characterize certain people as less than human because we then get to think of ourselves as somehow superior. It's also easy to assume that trying to understand why someone did something so horrible is the same as asking for mercy for that person because it's easiest to think in black and white, us and them, good and evil, etc. Great fun all around, isn't it?

  • 1

    oikawa

    ambrosia

    The problem is that in Japan taking your children with you seems a quite natural response to feelings of committing suicide. Infanticide and filicide happen in other countries but not on the same scale as in Japan, due I think to certain attitudes toward suicide and honour which are prevalent here. As for cognitive dysfunction I was thinking more of logical reasoning which I don't believe is affected. Memory, concentration etc might be impaired, but the decision to commit suicide for example is actually completely rational given the circumstances of a depressed person. It is not a sign of irrationality. However I have never seen any studies of depressed people showing a realigned moral compass. You never hear of acts of violence purely because of a depressed state of mind. It might contribute to certain circumstances but will not realign someones mentality to make them think that killing other humans is acceptable. Being depressed doesn't change your underlying knowledge of right and wrong, I would say it just reaffirms even more strongly what you do believe but it doesn't change you.

  • -3

    ambrosia

    oikawa: Sorry if I sound skeptical but I'll need a bit more than your assurances that infanticide and filicide happen to a greater degree in Japan than elsewhere. As for it being particular to Japan in response to suicidal feelings, read the article I cited to yasukuni. It addresses the points you've brought up but suggests that it's not all unique to Japan, rather that it's particular to places where children are considered more the property of the woman than independent humans in their own rights. That feeling may exist more strongly in Japan than in a place such as the States, for example, but it is hardly unique to Japan. I don't understand what you're trying to say about a realignment of one's more compass either. Studies have shown that parents commit infanticide and filicide out of depression and hopelessness and that certain forms of affective disorders may be risk factors for criminal behavior (Moms Who Kill / Psychology Today The Role of Depression in Murder-Suicide / psychiatry online. Is Depression a Risk Factor for Crime / Crime Times). The problem is not just in Japan. The problem is in not dealing with the problem wherever it exists. Sweeping generalizations are generally neither helpful nor true.

  • -1

    ambrosia

    Again, not unique to Japan. Japan was included in this study as were the States, Australia, Austria, Brazil, Canada, Finland, France, Hong Kong, Japan, Ireland, New Zealand, Sweden, Turkey and the United Kingdom,

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2174580/

    *Our recent study of mothers found not guilty by reason of insanity in two U.S. states found that the perpetrators were often depressed and frequently experienced auditory hallucinations, some of a command type. Over one third of the homicides occurred during pregnancy or the postpartum year. Almost all the mothers had altruistic or acutely psychotic motives (22). A small New Zealand study that interviewed the mothers after their filicides found that psychotic mothers who had committed filicide often killed suddenly without much planning, whereas depressed mothers had contemplated killing their children for days to weeks prior to their crimes (49).

    A significant proportion (16-29%) of filicides end in completed suicide by the mother (56). Many other mothers make non-fatal suicide attempts in association with their filicides. When mothers of young children commit suicide, about 5% also kill at least one of their children (57,58).

    Up to 4% of mothers with untreated postpartum psychosis will commit infanticide (70). *

  • 4

    Matthew Simon

    I must say that Japan may not have a high crime rate but when there is a crime committed it is usually I really heinous one. I pray for the lost children. May they rest in peace.

  • -1

    Franchesca Miyara Yang

    Yes Matthew, I sincerely agree with you. Also, there is a tendency of showing mercy and condone this type of heinous child killing by many people when the killer happens to be a woman. This is downright pathetic and low. No poster in here would be wasting her/his time trying to convince people of the "dangers" of post natal depression. We all know, after all, that post natal depression affect only women?...lol (Ever heard of a father suffering PND?)

    Again, if the killer happened to be the Father, I bet not many people would "bother" defending him with research copy pastes and showing mercy towards him. Blatant double standards to me.

  • 1

    Jack Stern

    One wonders if these life taking events were premeditated or instantanious. What would motivate a woman to take three of her children's lives? None of us seems to know why it happened. One could come up with all sorts of ideas. I suppose we'd need to go to the trial and listen to the defence lawyers and psychologists so we would get some insight. At 37 years old and having a ten year old would mean it wasn't a short marriage and required lots of parenting time. Some of you would have had her jump in front of a train before doing such a crime and thus spare the kids. That's not an answer to these horrific crimes which seems to be happening so often. These mothers need reaching out to for help and understanding.

  • -2

    Darren Brannan

    Personally I hope she swings.

  • 0

    kakifry

    Why do the kids have to dragged into people's breakdowns and die? I mean, you decide to kill yourself, why take the kids with you? It is so self-centred and cruel. The poor husband not only has to accept his wife is dead ( in this case she survived) but that his kids died as well!! I hope she is kept in prison for years, so she can daily remember what she had done and how her husband must hate her. Leave the kids alone! If someone is determined to commit suicide then he/she should leave others out of it!

  • 0

    tmarie

    Japanese women , not all of course, when they get married cannot cope with hard life when it comes. Mostly financial problems seem to be the monster. Yes the husband will do his part to earn for the family. The mother is left to budget, pay the loans, feed the kids, clean the house, do the laundries etc etc etc... but what if the salary of the husband won't meet the budget. What hard life??? If they don't have the money, perhaps mom could get a job?? Daycare IS there for people who need it - which makes it harder for those who want to work but not "need" to work. Feed the kids, cleaning the house is a hard life??? I see it as "things that need to be done", not hard. Perhaps a little more perspective that getting married and having kids isn't the key to happiness?

  • -7

    Nicky Washida

    @Ambrosia - THANK YOU. BIG thank you. I have no idea of the circumstances behind what led this woman to do something so terrible, but I am sick to death of reading so much nonsense about the "facts" behind PPD/PNI - many of which seem to come from people with no knowledge or experience whatsoever of the condition.

    So thank you for sharing some pertinent, relevant and factual information. Again I have no idea if post partum psychosis is behind this womans acts, but it CAN last years if left untreated, it absolutely CAN lead to criminal acts and it is most certainly not possible to rationalise what you are doing if you are truly in the grip of it. Thos are the facts about PNI. Whether or not this woman was suffering with it or some other mental disorder, or is just simply evil remains to be seen.

  • -5

    Nicky Washida

    @tmarie - I dont necessarily disagree with a lot of what you are saying, but this constant attacking the women of Japan at every opportunity really is - and I mean this will all due respect - getting a little tiring now.

    I have just had to quit my daycare and from now on for the next two years I will be keeping my youngest at home with me. I have had to quit work for medical reasons therefore no more daycare. The change is needed, but I am nervous. I dont quite know how I am going to cope being at home doing all those things you listed, not interacting with adults I have anything in common with other than a 2 year old child, while my husband gets up to God knows what just because he can - he has the freedom to do it.

    Not saying life at home is going to be so terrible - I honestly dont know but I DO know that when I was on maternity leave I found it lonely and isolating, but please - once you have tried it for yourself and seen how lonely and soul-destroying it can be - then I will be more than happy to listen to your diatribe about how lazy and selfish these women are.

    Sorry! Just a sensitive topic for me right now! :)

  • -4

    smithinjapan

    ambrosia: "Up to 4% of mothers with untreated postpartum psychosis will commit infanticide (70). *"

    Translation: "excuse".

  • 2

    Vast Right-Wing Conspirator

    Nicky, sorry but the argument of "you can't have an opinion if you haven't done it yourself" is not valid. A person need not be a pro baseball player to have a valid opinion about the sport, nor be a Hollywood director to criticise a movie.

    If you don't interact with adults, the fault would be your own. If your husband gets up to "God knows what", then your marriage may have bigger issues than your future as a stay home parent. I say that as both a father and a husband, so my opinion has wieght, right?

    As for the lady in the article, she had options. She could leave the marriage, for one, if her husband was not supporting the family. She could leave the house if she were feeling uncontrollable anger or frustration- go for a walk, scream at a tree, Two of her kids were already in elementary school, the other soon to start, so getting a job was another option. Killing three children, one after the other? No excuse, no amount of stress, no frustration can excuse that. It's a pity her suicide attempt was unsuccessful.

  • -1

    ambrosia

    smith: That would be an inaccurate "translation" but go with it if it makes you feel better.

  • -1

    ambrosia

    Nicky: I've no idea why this woman did this and have offered none of the information as an excuse, though clearly some posters would have you believe otherwise. We can all postulate as much as we like but none of us knows and maybe never will. Regardless, it's easy enough for anyone with a computer and the inclination to find the facts on infanticide, filicide, ppd, etc., so all the random inaccurate nonsense thrown about is a little curious. Good luck with your new situation. Now you're aware of the potential pitfalls I certainly hope you'll avail yourself of every and all resource available to help keeping you sane. I use that word only half in jest.

  • 0

    tmarie

    Well said Vast,

    Nicky, I usually agree with your posts but on this one, nope. There are many, many things a women can do to get out and not go crazy - work being one of them. Thing is, many think it is a "right" they have to stay home once they have kids and would rather not even think about working for their sanity. I wish you well but lately you've been making plenty of comments about your marriage and husband. Perhaps you could read Vast's comments and think about what he's written.

    Not interacting with adults would be YOUR choice, not something forced on you. You live in Tokyo - of all places with plenty of international playgroups. Some don't have it as easy.

    INdeed, we don't know what happened here except a j mother killed her kids. I get tired of reading this, reading that somehow it is the dad's fault and "oh the poor woman". There is help out there. This women it seems didn't go that route and instead is alive while her kids are dead and her poor husband has to deal with it.

    Also, I get tired of bashing the women here but when I see things every single day that do my head in, someone needs to speak out about it - and I need to speak out about it because if not, I might bash one of them. Better here than in real life, no?

  • -1

    ambrosia

    Where are all of these supposed posts begging for mercy on the part of this women? The vast majority are begging for blood. Even some of the ones that are contemplating why she might have done it have started off with the apologetic "I'm not excusing her..", no doubt in order to avoid the wrath of the rabid JT crowd.

  • 0

    oikawa

    ambrosia

    I didn't say it was unique to Japan. As you said yourself,

    That feeling may exist more strongly in Japan

    so I think we pretty much agree with each other there.

    The point about the "moral compass" is that although depression slows down cognitive function in terms of memory, concentration etc, it doesn't alter functioning when it comes to intelligence or moral reasoning, i.e IQ or the ability to know right from wrong. In most societies suicide would be considered a right, albeit a terrible one, but taking others with you when you did it would most certainly not. In Japan though it just doesn't seem that way, that you do in fact almost have certain rights in that respect. And it might just be hearsay, but coming to this site everyday I see stories like this every week it seems, and I think most posters would agree. The last time I saw a story like this on BBC it was a cause celebre where the woman was suffering severe auditory hallucinations. She was literally psychotic, and deservedly got sent to a high security hospital. And this was 2 years ago. I don't see these stories every year or month, let alone every week. And this shouldn't be a surprise, given the history of ritual suicide in Japan. It must be shown, and people must be educated, that in contemporary society it is actually not acceptable to kill all your children when you want to kill yourself.

  • -3

    tmarie

    Begging for mercy? I've said no such thing. There are posts however that are automatically assuming that this couldn't possibly be the woman's fault. The first post, the post question why the dad was working on a Saturday... There have been a few which is where my comments have been directed. Whereas yours have been directed at those that disagree with your opinion. I'm certainly not calling for 'blood" but am sick and tired of reading about mothers killing their damn kids every week in this country. How can one not be sick of it?

  • 0

    ambrosia

    oikawa: I respectfully disagree with you. The facts simply don't bear out your theory. Intelligence has little to do with what you've termed "moral reasoning" when it comes to depression. If you've bothered reading any of the information I've posted for you then you'll see that what you're saying is indeed hearsay. "The majority of nations that have infanticide laws have followed the British precedent and decrease the penalty for mothers killing children under one year old." This would seem to suggest that British laws recognize postpartum depression as a cause - not excuse - for infanticide and filicide and that a certain degree of leniency is provided. Japan also has infanticide laws. Where exactly is the difference?

    *...all recorded cases of infanticide in England and Wales for the period 1995-2002 (298 cases in total). * That works out to about 42 cases of infanticide per year. Taking population and demographics into account, are you really reading about more such cases on JT?

    • Moderator

      Readers, please stay on topic. Comparisons with other countries are not relevant to this discussion.

  • 0

    ambrosia

    And then there are posts that automatically, no matter the topic, assume that the woman is to blame for everything, particularly Japanese women. How can one not be sick of it, indeed.

  • -8

    Nicky Washida

    @tmarie - Let me just say I am only half disagreeing with you.

  • -4

    tmarie

    Ambrosia, since it is the mothers doing the killing in most cases, would it not be fair to assume the women are to blame most of the time?? And since the population is over 50% female, I think it is safe to assume that more than 50% of the time, women are to blame no matter the topic. Certainly not for everything but I've got stats on my side! ;) Why the automatic assumption that it isn't the women? You can't make such statements without agreeing that you defend, defend, defend which is just as "bad" as "always" blaming the women.

  • -2

    ambrosia

    "Ambrosia, since it is the mothers doing the killing in most cases, would it not be fair to assume the women are to blame most of the time??"

    No, it isn't safe to assume that. Assumptions are not facts.

    "And since the population is over 50% female, I think it is safe to assume that more than 50% of the time, women are to blame no matter the topic."

    Again, no. Are you seriously saying that women in Japan are 50% to blame for all crimes, responsible for the passing of stupid laws, responsible for 50% of business corruption, etc.? Thats a bit of a stretch even for you but yes, stand your ground on that one for sure.

    "Certainly not for everything but I've got stats on my side! ;) Why the automatic assumption that it isn't the women?"

    What stats? Saying that half the population is comprised of women therefore they're half to blame for everything isn't exactly a stat, is it?

    "You can't make such statements without agreeing that you defend, defend, defend which is just as "bad" as "always" blaming the women."

    Yes, I can actually because I do not defend, defend, defend. You've mistaken disagreement with your comments as defense of a crime. I'll make no apologies for trying to understand why people do horrible things nor for posting factual dissections of those topics. I'm certainly not the first one to notice your bias against anti-Japanese women. Keep trying to convince us all that you're just speaking the truth though. It makes things predictable.

  • -1

    ambrosia

    Sorry, your bias against Japanese women.

  • 1

    oikawa

    ambrosia

    I think you have missed the point that it is not pure infanticide or filicide that are more common here, it is taking children with you when you commit suicide that is more common. Do you live in Japan? Because if you do I would be astonished if you couldn't say you hadn't read of more cases here where parents take children with them as if it is their right.

    I don't really know what you don't understand about the point about the moral compass. It's quite simple. The brain might tick slower when depressed but you don' t suddenly become stupider or think theft, rape or murder are acceptable. And it is interesting that the UK law you mentioned was enacted in 1922, a time when the thinking was, to quote,

    the balance of her mind was disturbed by reason of her not having fully recovered from the effect of giving birth to the child

    which is pure Victorian thinking, something which on other topics feminists would be up in arms about. And it is interesting that mental health organisations often produce advertising campaigns where they have to specifically point out that depressed people are not violent, to counter stereotypical myths about depression, yet which is apparently a partially justifiable cause of violence post-birth.

  • -2

    tmarie

    Are you seriously saying that women in Japan are 50% to blame for all crimes, responsible for the passing of stupid laws, responsible for 50% of business corruption, etc.?

    I've said no such thing and that would be a pretty large assumption on your part. You don't get that you are doing exactly what you are posting about. You've taken my post and have stretched it to some pretty interesting conclusions. I am talking "merely" about the murder of kids in this country by family members, the abuse of children... You've taken my comments and run with them.

    Indeed, I have biased against Japanese women. I make no effort to hide that. I call it as I see it. I came here with a very open mind and daily I see things thank make me shake my head. Add up the years, the things I've seen, it would be hard not to have them. They aren't all negative. Thing is, this is JT which reports on crimes. I am sick and tired of seeing this type of crime being committed by the mothers who are suppose to love and protect their kids. Heaven forbid I think there is an issue and speak out about it.

    Your posts are also predictable - though does lead to interesting discussion at times so am more than happy to read your comments. Shame you can't do me the same honours.

  • -1

    Vast Right-Wing Conspirator

    Actually, child assault/murder tends to fall into TWO categories: the one in this article, and the case of the boyfriend abusing/killing the girlfriend's children from a previous relationship. The latter case generally involves a desperate woman doing anything and ignoring anything so that she can keep her..... well, I can't say "man", so how about "partner".

    I guess the old adage that "blood is thicker than water" isn't true.

  • 0

    ambrosia

    "I think it is safe to assume that women are to blame 50% of the time, no matter the topic."

    Those are your words. I twisted nothing. If you meant something other than any old topic then you probably shouldn't have written "no matter the topic".

    "Indeed I have biased against Japanese women"

    Good to see you finally admitting it.

    • Moderator

      Back on topic please.

  • -1

    ambrosia

    Oikawa: Yes I live in Japan so there's nothing astonishing about my reading of such cases occurring here. Unless they involve multiple murders they'd be unlikely to be reported nationally in the States it being a much bigger country with a much bigger population. Again, you've obviously not read what I posted as it tells you quite clearly that, of the countries studied, the U.S. has the highest rates of infanticide and filicide. As for "pure" infanticide and filicide, I've no idea what you mean. Killing one's infant or child is the definition of the words. The why doesn't come into play in the definition. As for recovering from the affects of giving birth, there's nothing Victorian or anti-feminist about that notion. The hormonal changes that occur both immediately after a woman gives birth and over the longer term are well documented. I think we'll respectfully have to agree to disagree on this. Have a good evening (no sarcasm intended - you can never be too sure on this site)!

  • -7

    tmarie

    **"Indeed I have biased against Japanese women"

    Good to see you finally admitting it.**

    Have never, ever denied it.

    And I guess you're right, I can see how you misread my meaning. Should have been more specific. In terms of child abuse, it is usually the women. Better?

  • 3

    missy27

    Franchesca, I totaly agree with you!

    bajhista65, Life is hard but that is no excuse to hurt you children. I married my Japanese husband when I was 19 and had my first child at 22. I could only speak basic Japanese and had absolutely no support or help, these women atleast live in their own country. I worked a full time job (very stressful,), had no family around me, husband working and of course "Japanese mentality" (I will explain this later)In other words when I was a new mom I was working a stressful full time job, had no support, not my country BUT I never once hurt my child.I was stressed out to the max with full blown panic attacks but I never once hurt my child or blamed them for anything wrong in my life. Yes stress can sometimes make people do things they regret a normal person would not kill their children because of it. You cant blame stress on this, she is appearanty a very sick person and I am sorry but your comment about Oh Japanese woman is so stressed this and life is so hard that is bull crap! Its your decison to get married and have children, BE responsible for christs sake. Try working a full time job and not just staying home and being a parent ( i can comment on being a housewife because now I am one and trust me its much harder working)....I love my two kids more then anything and would do anything to make sure they were safe.

    Oh to anyone talking about how terrible it is to be a housewife...its not. I am one now and I love being with my kids and yeah there are times its lonely and isolating but its MY CHOICE to stay home and there are many women out there who have to work and want to stay home with their kids....if being a housewife is so bad then get a part time job dang it!! Stop making excuse this is not Iran and women do not get stoned for working here. I know a woman who has 3 kids and works. If you use day care as an excuse for being so expensive then dont have alot of kids...stop at 1 and go back to work. That is one of my biggest pet peeves is women who complain about this. Its your decision to have kids! By Japanese mentality I mean not wanting to deal with problems and sweeping everything under the rug.

    Not everyone who hurts their children have PPD, there are people out there who are very selfish and only think of themselves. I dont know this whole story but I just dont think PostPartum Depression played a role in this. I am sure the husband knew there were problems but most likely just ignored them. Its sad that these precious children had to have their lives cut short. R.I.P Little angels. :(

  • 2

    missy27

    Tan Sharon, Not aware or maybe they ( the dads) dont want to see it?

    Mental health issues are very much ignored here and when a country has the highest suicide rate in the world there needs to be more awareness on mental illness. The signs of these type of tragedies are always there rather anyone wants to admit them or not. I am sure there were subtle signs that this woman gave off that the husband should have seen.

    But again there are people who just are selfish and can and will hurt their children and spouses for no reason other then wanting them gone.

  • 2

    fidaruzki

    about time for society and families not to sweep mental illness under the carpet

  • -1

    smithinjapan

    ambrosia: "smith: That would be an inaccurate "translation" but go with it if it makes you feel better."

    Sorry, would "shouganaine" suit you better? That's not what you said specifically, of course, but you are still making excuses for a person who has murdered three children. Quite frankly I think that trying to justify multiple homicides, especially of one's own family, is disturbing. This woman is not only inhuman, she has taken the life of three humans, all her kids, then of course failed to take her own. What does Japanese law generally demand in the case of taking more than two lives? I'll give you a hint: it's not sympathy or excuses.

  • -1

    smithinjapan

    ambrosia: "assume that the woman is to blame for everything,"

    In this case, without a doubt. Or did someone else murder their three children?

  • 0

    garomakaikishi

    easy for every one to comment and ridicule her. maybe she was at the lowest point in her life. maybe she asked for help many times didnt get it. just because all of you above have a good life doesnt mean the same for everyone.

  • -2

    ambrosia

    smithinjapan: Please show me where I've made any excuses for this woman? You can't because I haven't. Pretty much every post I've made has been to do with PPD and infanticide / filicide. Pretty much every post I've made has simply been statistical, factual, cited information regarding who commits such crimes and where. They've been made in regard to comments suggesting that Japanese women do this more than any others. Again, nowhere at any point have I tried to justify what this woman did. I took pains to state that I do not know if this woman was suffering from PPD and even if she was that that would not be an excuse. A reason is not the same as an excuse, as I've said before, not logically and not legally. I don't know what or who your fight is with but if you imagine it to be with people who excuse murder then you've chosen the wrong target.

    "In this case, without a doubt. Or did someone else murder their three children?"

    No, it would seem that this woman did murder her children but then if you actually read what I wrote you would know that this comment was not about that woman. It was in response to a particular poster who's, by his or her own admission, got issues with Japanese women in general.

    You're wasting your time by not reading what I've actually written and by getting angry about things I never said. I'll not waste any more of mine by responding to your spurious accusations. Good evening.

  • 0

    smithinjapan

    ambrosia: "Please show me where I've made any excuses for this woman?"

    Sure. Oh wait, sorry... you did that with your own comments.

    "Pretty much every post I've made has been to do with PPD and infanticide / filicide. Pretty much every post I've made has simply been statistical, factual, cited information regarding who commits such crimes and where"

    Guess what, I ''pretty much" know you're making excuses, you just try to water them down under the guise of PPD or whatever excuse fits the bill for the moment. But hey, why not avoid the fact that I point out you are making excuses for this woman by claiming she might suffer from PPD (10 years later!) and instead suggest I haven't called you up on your comment?

    Ouch!

    " I'll not waste any more of mine by responding to your spurious accusations."

    Or my 'quotations'. Tough to distinguish the two, but I didn't make the things you said, only prove you wrong, but hey, let's take a look where you potentially blame the husband instead of the actual murderer:

    "That said, it's hard to imagine this being completely out of the blue, regardless of what the neighbors say. If this was completely out of the blue then the husband has all of my sympathy. If not and he willfully turned a blind eye because that was easier than dealing with what was going on at home, then he is at least morally culpable, if not legally."

    No wonder you don't want to comment back! :)

  • 1

    smithinjapan

    Ambrosia: You have been trying to blame what this woman did on anything but murder since she murdered her kids. Can you not see that? I think your excuses have varied from some bizarre and delayed 10 year post-partem to potentially blaming it on the father.

    The poor kids, to have people seek excuses for their murder if it's a woman.

  • 0

    oikawa

    ambrosia

    Thank you for your reply. What I meant by "pure" was in the sense that that was all, without the killer committing suicide too, as I continued with in the sentence in my previous post. And in this article

    http://www.glocom.org/specialtopics/socialtrends/20040107trendss65/index.html

    it does indeed state that suicide and killing children simultaneously is more common in Japan.

    To quote,

    rate of incidence is still much higher than in European Union countries and North America. In the Japanese local and national press you can usually find at least one or two cases of "muri-shinju" reported every single day. Even in the English language press there are about two cases reported each week

    That was my first point. I don't think it's even that outstanding or surprising, suicide has long had less of a stigma here, just that more needs to be done to educate people that it's not a wise move and that you probably won't be better off for it.

    The second is that of course there are going to be chemical changes after childbirth, but I and I think most people don't think that justifies killing other people. As I said before you have the right to kill yourself but not the right to kill others and I have never heard of anyone, assuming they were not acutely psychotic, of changing their mind on that point just because they were depressed. The law, I fear, is not a good fall back on topics such as this as it is too complicated to pare down to such simple statements. you have to make your own mind up. Could this woman be charged with infanticide if she'd killed a newborn? Or a 4 yr old as well? And a 10 Year old too? Or maybe infanticide for the newborn and murder for the 4 year old and 10 year old? And what about a different person altogether? Why is it more acceptable to kill your own child when you are suffering "Post Natal" depression than it is to kill other people, or at other times?

  • 0

    Tahoochi

    Ambrosia: I think I know what you're saying... not making excuses for the woman, not condoning her acts, but at the same time not agreeing with people like borscht who downplay PPD and simply say "PPD is not a factor, it only lasts a few months"... well I have a wife and mother of a 3 year old and 8 month year old, and I can tell you the hormones are still running very high (God bless my wife). PPD may not be an excuse, but I for one am interested in knowing the true reason behind this woman's actions. Unfortunately, neither the media, or other posters will be able to tell us the answer.

  • -1

    nigelboy

    I must say that Japan may not have a high crime rate but when there is a crime committed it is usually I really heinous one. I pray for the lost children. May they rest in peace.

    Well. It's usually the "heinous" ones that are reported because it's news worthy.

  • -7

    tmarie

    easy for every one to comment and ridicule her. maybe she was at the lowest point in her life. maybe she asked for help many times didnt get it. just because all of you above have a good life doesnt mean the same for everyone.

    So does that excuse her killing her three children? Take YOUR life, not your kids.

    Also, where on earth does it state this women was depressed? I can't see it in the article. Plenty of people are assuming she's depressed but perhaps she wasn't? It wouldn't be the first time a mom has just decided to off the kids. She survived after all. What better way to get a light sentence than try and inflict a little self harm to make it appear you were mentally unstable. Regardless, my prayers are for the dad and the kids.

  • 0

    602miko

    OMG! ahhhhhhhh ... this news break my heart, poor little kids, what's going here in japan right now? why your kids? killing people was not fun, for GOD sake save your kids life give them a chance to grow up. REST IN PEACE little kids hope your mom burn in hell, death penalty the right punishment for her .....

  • 0

    Franchesca Miyara Yang

    missy27MAR. 26, 2012 - 08:28PM JST

    Franchesca, I totaly agree with you!

    bajhista65, Life is hard but that is no excuse to hurt you children. I married my Japanese husband when I was 19 and had my first child at 22. I could only speak basic Japanese and had absolutely no support or help, these women atleast live in their own country. I worked a full time job (very stressful,), had no family around me, husband working and of course "Japanese mentality" (I will explain this later)In other words when I was a new mom I was working a stressful full time job, had no support, not my country BUT I never once hurt my child.I was stressed out to the max with full blown panic attacks but I never once hurt my child or blamed them for anything wrong in my life. Yes stress can sometimes make people do things they regret a normal person would not kill their children because of it. You cant blame stress on this, she is appearanty a very sick person and I am sorry but your comment about Oh Japanese woman is so stressed this and life is so hard that is bull crap! Its your decison to get married and have children, BE responsible for christs sake. Try working a full time job and not just staying home and being a parent ( i can comment on being a housewife because now I am one and trust me its much harder working)....I love my two kids more then anything and would do anything to make sure they were safe.

    Oh to anyone talking about how terrible it is to be a housewife...its not. I am one now and I love being with my kids and yeah there are times its lonely and isolating but its MY CHOICE to stay home and there are many women out there who have to work and want to stay home with their kids....if being a housewife is so bad then get a part time job dang it!! Stop making excuse this is not Iran and women do not get stoned for working here. I know a woman who has 3 kids and works. If you use day care as an excuse for being so expensive then dont have alot of kids...stop at 1 and go back to work. That is one of my biggest pet peeves is women who complain about this. Its your decision to have kids! By Japanese mentality I mean not wanting to deal with problems and sweeping everything under the rug.

    Not everyone who hurts their children have PPD, there are people out there who are very selfish and only think of themselves. I dont know this whole story but I just dont think PostPartum Depression played a role in this. I am sure the husband knew there were problems but most likely just ignored them. Its sad that these precious children had to have their lives cut short. R.I.P Little angels. :(

    EXCELLENT! Finally somebody with a post worth reading. Something about REAL DAY LIFE! I've been through heaven and hell and I have 4 young kids!! I've been temporarily insane at times! However, the thought of taking my anger on them and kill them never crossed my mind, I did think about harming myself though! I needed help and looked for it, I still need help and I still LOOK for it. I don't go crazy killing my children. I don't care what the Feminazis say here, PND does not necessarily drive a woman to kill a child, let alone 3!! How come fathers killing their own kids don't get accused of having PND? Don't be ridiculous. LOL! I've seen the way the wild crowd here are ready to crucify men when they kill children. Who's kidding who? Feminazis are ruining this country. Equality is what is needed. I despise child murderers, males and females. But in this case a woman murdered her 3 children. That "thing" shouldn't be allowed to walk scot free. Child murderers, crazy or not, must never be allowed into society. Never.

    If I ever go "nuts" and kill my children, please hang me ASAP!

  • -1

    Franchesca Miyara Yang

    by the way... Do any of you know the will and strength that takes to strangle a 10 year child old to death??

    Child murderers are same as rapists. They are scum that should be locked away for life, never to be set free again.

    Again, who's kidding who?

  • -1

    bajhista65

    MISSY22... we all know personality differs. It all depend on individual's respond to life problems.

    IMHO, since the mother is alive... let's pause this discussion and let's just wait for the motive and reason for killing the children.

  • 0

    bajhista65

    @Franchezca & Missy22....hahahaha I did not justify the mother's actions killing her children and her unsuccessful suicide. I just posted some reasons with exceptions. :)) I do understand your venting. so.... Cheers...

  • -1

    Franchesca Miyara Yang

    bajhista65MAR. 27, 2012 - 09:25PM JST

    @Franchezca & Missy22....hahahaha I did not justify the mother's actions killing her children and her unsuccessful suicide. I just posted some reasons with exceptions. :)) I do understand your venting. so.... Cheers..

    Venting at what? I don't think that "cheers" is the wisest word to use in a topic such as this. It's a tremendous tragedy where 3 young lives were shattered and there is no way someone would justify or condone such heinous act. I don't care if she was sick, depressed, temporarily insane or just pure nuts. She chose to kill her babies and she will pay for it, in this life or the next. Since we know the typical verdicts delivered by this justice system, I don't think many of us would hold our breath but at least we have the freedom and heart to express our feelings. I just really hope that those condoning and showing mercy for this "woman" will do the same thing the next time a Father kills his children. Double standards shouldn't be allowed.

  • 0

    fidaruzki

    I have a colleague who came from a family of 13 and his mother is a full time housewife. my grandmother has 9 surviving children and she too was a housewife, living through WW1 and WW2, and later post war in Singapore with my grandfather's meager salary as coast guard. and I have siblings with children growing up and the stress of living in fast and modern world is affecting them all. and I simply could not understand why a mother have the heart to kill her own children because of stress. unless she is certified mental patient, please do not insult those people with mental health problem by pledging insanity when she is charged in the court of law.

Login to leave a comment

OR

More in Crime

View all

View all