Do you think all-girl groups like AKB48 are being marketed as sexualized Lolitas or is it just harmless fun?

I think it is a case of being in the eye of the beholder.

The talent agencies marketing these groups are clearly covering all bases.

They are marketed as cute and fun to the teenage crowd, but then sexualized for the 20s/30s/40s otaku male crowd where the big money is — some of these guys make decent incomes as salaried professionals of which they are willing to spend a significant chunk on catering to their "idol" fetishes.

To the creepy oniisans they are definitely being marketed as sexualized lolitas. Just looks at the lines when their "goozu " are sold.

Good one, SimondB! As a retired touring musician, I understand the nuances of the game, and must agree with both Sensato and sillygirl, too. They're sexualized commodities. What makes the whole situation sad is that they're not allowed or supposed to date a young man while they're in the group, otherwise they're vilified, fired, sued and otherwise disgraced. Just for being young and (supposedly) hot. Personally, I like them, as a theme, but not as a musical or cultural icon. They're pap. And I'm sure there are masses of men, young and old, who play with themselves while they watch the videos.

Are you for real? OF COURSE sexual lolitas.

I'm not entirely sure who else these girl groups are for besides lonely men

Both, depending on which segment of the audience they're selling to at the moment. You've got kids into them because they're teenagers and you've got old pervs into them for the same reason.

Pedo pop simple as that, I know the mods don't like me telling it like it is, but what other label would fit!

It's not just a Japan thing. Remember Brittany being marketed as hot snatch at the age of 16-17? As usual, Westerners are quick to be shocked at what Japan does without realizing it's us, too.

Without the accompanying visual "eye candy," AKB's "music" would fall on deaf ears.

In Japan, image is everything. And the image here is, "Never mind the music-take your pick, fanboys: we've got a girl for every one of your never-to-be-fulfilled fetishes!"

Peter Payne is right. Great example. A lot of the attention paid to Anna Kournikova when she first hit the scene-- it certainly wasn't about her tennis skill-- and the "Olsen Twins Countdown" come to mind, too.

It's not just a Japan thing. Remember Brittany being marketed as hot snatch at the age of 16-17? As usual, Westerners are quick to be shocked at what Japan does without realizing it's us, too.

Britney is still with us and had made millions - for HER and for her managers. These girls get tossed after making peanuts for themselves but millions for their sick and twisted handlers. Britney was no doubt exploited but when you look at the end game, she's def done better than anyone who has ever been in one of these groups.

Not just Japan... you see it from western countries too... and not just music... all of those US teen movies about kids at school getting up to all kinds of naughty things.

No, not at all. Now leave me alone while I watch "Heavy Rotation" again and again.

Western starlets seem to get their fame by transgressing social boundaries. They make their mark by choosing just how much they are going to sexualize themselves and titillate their audience, and find a niche in whatever range they're comfortable with.

Japanese starlets' sexualization seems to come by the undersage archetype they play. There seems to be this notion that being young and thus "innocent" is inherently desirable, and that desirability is instantly lost if the girl has even the slightest, mildest sexual experience.

I'm not sure either sort of sexualization is really better than the other, but if I were a girl I'd much rather grow up in the society that sexualizes the choices I make rather than my lack of experience making choices.

It's all a distraction.

Keep the population stupid while the powers that be, take the gullible to the cleaners. AKB here, Kardashians there, Big Brother somewhere else, throw in materialism, ethnocentricity or some other superstition to convince people that they are not whole, but that maybe with a little extra work they can find fulfilment, salvation, shiawase or whatever the always-distant goal is called.

Allahu Akbar, and Repent and Ye Shall be Saved are the same bullshit affirmation as You're Worth It!, after all...

George Carlin says it most eloquently: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RyQ1RoEotPk

Love others. That's all we need.

I agree with sensato 100%. The talent agencies are marketing these groups so cleverly.

Then you got other clever gimmicks like "Babymetal" for example. Even if one doesn't really like metal music, they might find a few of their tunes catchy when they see the 3 young "lolita" vocalist acting as the face of an actual metal band.

Fruit Pochette is another example.

https://youtu.be/Dnzhjuqm8xo

Yes to both questions

@katsu78

Interesting assessment. Two thumbs up.

A group of hot girls in bikini with kawaii expressions, sure why not Lolitas right? And the fans falling in love for them! Sure why not right?

Just go down near the Akihabara theatre and you'll get your answer!

Katsu: Excellent post, and a very valid comparison on attitudes in general when it comes to sexualization.

As for AKB in particular, since that's what the question is asking about, I'd say a LOT of the sexualized Lolita element, and a little of the harmless fun. I think THEY believe they're in it for the latter, but the company is taking advantage of them and portraying them as the latter. And as the latter sells better, once the girls move on to unsuccessful careers after, they end up falling back on the sexualization bit -- to their detriment. How many have gone to porn, now?

What in the heck does "sexualized Lolitas" even mean? The average age of AKB is like 19 or something with only a few token members below 16, 16 being marrying age for girls and a common age of consent. So the term "lolita" does not seem to apply.

As for "sexualized" that is one of the most ridiculous words ever coined. I have tried to work out what it means, and the conclusion is that its just a stupid buzzword for those who are hellbent to be indignant about human sexual attraction in some form. For example, you cannot put lingerie on a tree and make it sexy. Whatever you put lingerie on has to be sexy in the first place. Thus, if to sexualize means to make sexy something that isn't, its not possible without measure too extreme to be worth talking about, such as major plastic surgery.

But the fact is that AKB is not regularly even in swimsuits or lingerie. They are usually in skirts of the variety that girls of all ages wear all the time.

It seems to me that people want to lay at Japan's feet what is going on their own countries, just in different forms. What do you suppose Japanese people think of America when they saw Miley Cyrus waving her 19 year old butt in the camera a few years ago? Britney Spears has already been mentioned. What do you think they think when they saw the teen Selena Gomez's cleavage? I will tell you. They thought the same as those people here who freaked out over teen girl's legs!

This whole thing is nothing but cultural perspective, faux outrage, women past their prime expressing jealousy, and the anti-sexuals among us.

To answer the question: harmless fun. And no, I am not an AKB fan in the slightest.

Pffff- Artists like M. Cyrus, S Gomez, Becky G etc. are all solo artists (who are actually in the business to make music).

Unlike AKB/SKE/NMB-48, where all the talentless 144 of them are rolled off an assembly line at some agency. And only to be exploited.

Cyrus, Gomez, Spears do not fuel that whole "sexy school girl" fetish culture catering to middle aged men. Look at all the jk activity in japan's society attributed to fascinations of these girl groups by men well into their 40's or 50's even.

Why? Cause the all-girl groups such as AKB are marketed as sexualized lolitas.

I wonder why the question already uses the term "Sexualized Lolitas"....let me think....

As a fan of idols, I think they are being exploited as "Sexualized Lolitas" (as you say). The fact that almost a huge percentage of "fans" are middle-aged people who like to see young girls in bikinis, lingerie. And in recent years you couldn't deny that there are a LOT of "fan-service" that exploit this girls (eg. 2 girls kissing, pantie shots, etc). In their "Heavy Rotation" video alone, you can't deny it.

I am a fan of AKB48 and other idol groups, but I am not a fan of sexually exploiting this young girls, who averaged 13-20 years old just to cater their old-perverted clients. If its like summer and the girls are in bathing suits (not 2 piece) or summer outfit it's accepted. But come to Japan and you will see almost everyday girls as young as 13 years old in 2 piece outfits in trains, magazines, etc. And they also sell gravure dvd's of children for crying out loud! It's just a "legal" form of child porn..

Girl groups only represent a certain percentage of Idols.

The real Otaku aren't really into those jailbait groups and Idols.

@It"S ME

I think you got the real otaku part wrong.. Real otaku are the ones who go into jailbait groups.. Like spending a lot of money just to have a 5 min chat with her idol.. They have a term here but I forgot it (I think its "TL").. They spend massive amount of money just to prove that they are the REAL OTAKU.. I hate those kind of people..

*his

Sado001.

I was married to an Otaku(myself one) my wife was also an Animator and Manga-ka. So I got to meet many Otaku and people that create that stuff.

Most true Otaku hold a rather high position in their jobs and are married with kids and hate the current Anime, etc trends.

You are confusing the overseas definition of Trekkie's, etc with true Otaku, most hate Akihabara and prefer Nakano Broadway ( the real mecha) which predates Akiba.

Akiba took off about 20yrs ago as it was scheduled to become a major IT centre so leases were short and cheap which also suited the Pink Industry which now accounts for a large selection.

Meet a true Otaku than we can talk further.

@It"S ME

My girlfriend was an Otaku (Anime) and I was an Idol Otaku.. I think Anime and Idol otaku differs a lot when it comes to proving if you are a "Real" Otaku or not.. In my experience, I encountered a lot of Idol Otaku and they really go to places where their Idols go, buy a LOT of CD's to join events, and spend a LOT of money just to prove they are #1..

I don't see anime otaku go nationwide just to see their favorite anime's event (Correct me if I am wrong)

Yep they are definitely a product aimed at a particular audience I.e. middle aged loners. Am not condemning the talent companies btw and think that if their western counterparts in usa, europe eoz etc felt that there was a market for such groups in their respective countries they would do the same.

Thing is 45yo western single dudes arent going to cough up anything for a photo, mug or t shirt nor pay 100$ to watch 50 bimbos dance and lip sing at a concert. Girls bands a la spice girls were mostly for young female teens. What I find interesting, and worrying too, is that in japan men are more likely to live their fantasies 'for real'. And those agencies know that: they just have to show the bait and people will bite.

Agree here Anime and Idol Otaku are different, myself don't care about Idols either.

Most of the old-time Otaku consider it a batch of merit and dislike the new Otaku. Said that I grew up with 70's Anime in my home-country.

Still prefer Dallos, Jin-Roh, Votoms, etc over most current Anime. Back in the day there were few Idols aside from the musicians like Zard, etc.

The Idol trend appears to have started with the Akiba popularity, go there now and you hardly here any Japanese = Tourist trap.

@goldorak

You're right.. For example in my country, even if you are a die-hard fan of a band, you will not spend 1000 dollars just to have a 5 min talk with your favorite artist. That's the problem I think with Idol Otaku in Japan, they obsess with this so called "Fantasies" and the entertainment companies sees this as an opportunity to make money..

@It"S ME

I agree, I don't watch the recent anime's since almost everything you watch this days are full of fan-service AKA BIG BOOBS/PANTIE SHOTS.. Me as well love the anime before 90's below. The anime today is going the same path as the Idol industry, catering a specific audience to make money..

Sado001.

We are in agreement.

Most Anime Otaku do travel Japan to visit locations featured in the Anime , my neighbourhood is full of them.

And of course there are events in Nagoya and Osaka that sell goods by local artists.

Den-Den town in Osaka is the Kansai equivalent of Akiba, Nagoya is also a major anime centre. My Wife (RIP) was from Nagoya and Kawamori was her Senpai.

Try Agent Aika for fan-service, and there is always the Gainax Bounce too.

But we are in agreement, you are an Otaku to me.

Glad you like the old Anime like City-Hunter, Maison Ikkoku, etc.

@It'S ME

I just don't like the capitalism that the idol/anime industry turned into.. Yes, creators/producers must earn something from their works, but if you are exploiting women in liue of the topic and use that to make money, Then there is really something wrong..

Sorry to hear about your wife

Again we are in agreement, exploiting teens or anyone is a no no in my books.

Can't really blame the kids as I think most are 'forced' into it by their parents. True the kids got a fantasy to be an idol but their parents, IMHO, try to cash in on it.

@It”S ME

I personally know some idols (Not the major ones), as far as I know all of them went to auditions on thier own accord because it's their dream.. But when it comes to big groups like AKB or young gravure idols (I saw like around 8 years old) mmaybe some of them are forced to do it. I just can't imagine an 8 yr old wanting to post sexy for money..

Yup, many of those teen Idols like beauty-queens overseas are groomed from an early age for it.

Same counts for many top athletes they start at age 3 or 4, doubt it is their will but it becomes an integral part of their upbringing.

They see nothing wrong as that is all they know.

You're right, we can't blame the girls for doing that.

Agree, can't decide who is worse the agency or the parents.

Either way those girls future are messed up.

One Idol I know now hosts a Radio Program on my wards Radio Station, those Idols have few skills after their fame is over.

Sad really.

In my opinion the agancies are to blame.. A lot of these girls are I think on contracts so if they say to you that you wear this, do that, you have no choice but to do it since you will be forced to pay if you don't do it.. Some agencies exploit this since technically its legal in Japan. Unlike in my country, you won't see a child/teen wearing a 2 piece bikini without the media and the people cursing you about it.. As I said in my first comment, it's child porn less the nudity and sex.

My girlfriend asked me that question. What happens to an idol after graduation..

Very valid points and I agree with your GF what happens to them after graduation.

I gave one exa!ple, some who got skills might go into becoming singers, rest I see at best as talents working on their previous game.

Those girls got a good start but few will be able to become more than:

https://youtu.be/5u-rYzSSs7U

The most famous idols can have a big break after idoling, but a lot of them just go back to what they had left (studying, part time). But the saddest part is some of them go to the av industry.