Health care is a hot topic for debate in many countries. What do you think is the best system?
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34 Comments
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cow76
Public. The American system is clearly not working. They spend 16% of GDP on health care, double that of countries with public health care systems and somehow still manage to end up with tens of millions uninsured. And a country which will let its citizens die of preventable diseases loses the respect of other countries.
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nisegaijin
Private completely de-centralized system with no government involvement what so ever. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w6zYMZaPLgc
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Statistician
Yes the UK has a pretty good system whatever oddball Thatcherite MEP's might say on Fox News. I'd rather be treated there than in either the USA or Japan.
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Sarge
This Brit told me it's damn near impossible to get a dentist appointment in the U.K. unless you're rich and pay the dentist out of your pocket. He must be lying...
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timtak
The Japanese system works well for me. The UK system was a bit dog eared but the staff were dedicated.
In both the UK and Japan waiting times work both as a barrier to proper care, and as a deterrent to over treatment. I think that when medical treatment becomes free then waiting lists are inevitable.
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Simon_Foston
Unfortunately no he isn't. A lot of dental treatment isn't paid for on the NHS, and dentists are charging sky-high fees. As a result you get stories in the news from time to time about people doing DIY dental work on themselves in their back gardens. This is what you get when you have governments who claim to support the NHS but don't want to spend the money to make it work properly. The UK government is all about hiring private consultants to set performance targets for public institutions, but not giving them enough money to meet those targets because it's all been spent on the consultants' fees.
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Altria
Basic healthcare should be a right in any civilized society. If people want to pay extra for private treatment, let them do that.
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RandomTask
The NHS is generally good, but dentistry turned into a joke around 10 years ago where all the NHS dentists turned private, leaving the public no choice of where to go.
Japan's system is pretty messed up too from what I hear, people getting turned away from hospitals in the countryside until they die in an ambulance untreated (do they have helicopters?). Seperate health insurance plans for full time workers, leaving the part time workers and self employed to support the government plan and therefore the pensioners.
The American system is also terrible, far too expensive and profit driven by the HUGE companies who benifit by denying people treatment. I hear France has a good system.
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nisegaijin
Why is this a right? Please explain, because maybe owning a Ferrari should be a right too and government should subsidize me one.
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solarbuster
Health care needs to be defined; as for the following logical reason it will either work or not work the way people want it to.
First a nation needs to decide by referrendum if they want to be a caring nation or not.
If they decide they do not want to be a caring nation then Health Care becomes a commodity the government then leaves care to privatised business.
If they decide they are a caring nation then Health Care becomes a right and the government must put a Health service in place. This is nothing to do with politics, socialist or otherwise.
The business models for private industry and a service are very different. A private businesses main activity is to return maximum profits to investors and to do so must keep infrastructure and customer service as light as it possibly can to stay competive.
A services main activity however is to provide good outcomes to all it's clients and to do this infrastucture needs to be as heavy as posible within it's budget, which means no cash profit but better service. Which in return like all goverment infrastructures returns gains to society in mant different ways.
Because of the nature of health service only government run systems can provide holistic outcomes in health when health is decreed to be a right of all the nations people.
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KallyPygous
Universal health care places a massive burden on the state by allowing the unsuccessful to survive, when it would be better for the human race as a whole if they didn't - passive eugenics - as opposed to the active eugenics policy employed in Canada until recently. A nice side effect would be that gang bangers would be less inclined to have gun fights if they had to pay for the health care for their wounds.
Of course, there might be further costs on the state if all the workers were too sick to work and pay taxes, and the costs of dealing with disease epidemics as a result of immunisation programmes being cancelled, but hey - the wealthy would still be all right - they could all live in gated communities.
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Sebaschan
Denmark has a good system in my point of view. Fully (or at least a big part) financed through taxes on unhealthy products like beer, cigaretes or those including sugar. So those who live unhealthy actually have to pay more...
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tclh
If other workers (specially manufacturing workers) have to work to compete with workers in China, India..health workers too (doctors ,dentists included) should face the same competition from China India. Then the system will be stabilized eventually ,because when you earn more you can pay more, if you earn less you may pay less. It is a pain when you earn less as manufacturing workers but have to pay more for doctors, dentists which can maintain their very high income due to lack of competition.
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Loki520
How utterly liberal of you to leave out some interesting facts.
Blame the "greedy" companies (insurance, pharmacy, etc..) all you want, but all you're REALLY doing is distracting anyone from any real reasons reform is needed. TORT REFORM in addition to keeping the government out of the health care business.
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rajakumar
I think there is no best system in health care,there is no such thing.
It is all quack medicine with short term benefits.
For better health we need to go back, to good old ways of our grandparents and their way of great common sense towards clean healthy living .
How did our grandparents live so long,because they followed the clean decent ways of their grandparents.
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KallyPygous
So the US is the only country in the world with a medical R&D programme? So Glaxosmithkline and Bayer, the third and fourth largest pharmaceutical companies in the world, respectively, have no R&D programme?
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cow76
Loki520 A portion of that 16% also includes cost for health care provided to illegal aliens in the country....Another portion of that figure is the amount of medical supplies and expertise that we donate to other countries. So other countries don't have illegal aliens or give aid? Blow me away! I thought they did!
Also, even if you allow your blatantly wrong assumptions, there is still a huge difference between America's 16% of GDP spent on health vs Australia's 8.8% or Japan's 8%. (Also, these countries don't have tens of millions of people uninsured).
0
Betting
Japanese health insurance (which I view as one part of health care) certainly isn't very good if you are self-employed. Unlike those employed at companies where the company will 50%, the self-employed here pay the monthly contribution by themselves. It's like the self-employed are penalised through no fault of their own.
But as for the services provided by Japanese doctors, dentists etc., I can't find any reason to complain (other than some minor stuff).
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blvtzpk
@Raja: You're suggesting that previous generations lived longer than current ones, something which is patently false. How do explain the incrementally increasing life expectancy over the generations? Using facts and your logic, it would seem that NOT living like our grandparents did (or having access to better diet, health services, medical technology and therapies) and being naughty, immoral people has had its benefits! Oh, as for affordable health care for all, I'm behind it 100%. A healthy society is...well...a healthy society.
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seesaw
Free medical system is the best! I'm lucky to have been born in one such countries. Japan medical system is simply too expensive though I could afford it.
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GW
seesaw, due pls give us an example of a country that provides "free" health care, I have never heard of such a thing. Hint, just because you dont hand over $$$ when using a health care system AINT the same as free!
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ChrisBiggins
The NHS, though with minor faults , that hopefully Dave Cameron will rectify is marvellous. I went with terrible tummy wummy pains, god, i thought my time had come to pass on. A sweet assistant got me into a room within 5v minutes. I was examined, had multiple tests by a specialist and was sorted out and my mind set at rest within 4 hours. Also i pay much more tax and NI than the average BRit, much of which goes to the NHS and i don'T begrudge them a penny.
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Disillusioned
If you are in good health it is cheaper to use a credit card in emergency situations than to pay a large monthly sum forever regardless of the health insurance system or country you are in.
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onewrldoneppl
nisegaijin at 02:08 PM JST - 21st August
Basic healthcare should be a right in any civilized society. If people want to pay extra for private treatment, let them do that.
Why is this a right? Please explain, because maybe owning a Ferrari should be a right too and government should subsidize me one.
i hope many people you love suffer painfully/terribly, and then die because they don't/can't have access to healthcare. or a ferrari. i hope you die with them.
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Farmboy
I have no idea. I lived in the US for a long time and had just one brief period in which I was insured, though I always had work. I was not able to buy insurance through my employer because it wasn't offered, and to buy it elsewhere was unbelievably expensive. When I got sick, I didn't go to the doctor unless I thought I might die because I didn't make enough to pay for it. Last I checked, if you go to Prompt Care with an infection or the flu, it costs a hundred dollars plus to see the doctor, and about the same for the medicine. I haven't checked for a while, so it's probably gone up. I don't recommend this system. I hope there will be a better one.
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movieguy
I don't know what all this B.S. talk is about having to wait to be treated. I've been in Tokyo 15 years and I have NEVER waited for more than 15 minutes to be treated by a doctor when I've just walked in. The hospitals and clinics near my place also take reservations and as soon as I get there to fill out the paper work about why I'm there I immediately get to see the doctor.
I also had a bad ankle problem that no one could seem to diagnose. I finally found a doctor who was considered one of the best for sports injuries in Japan on a referral from my local clinic doctor and he said if I wanted to be without the nagging discomfort that I would need surgery but that it wasn't necessary (read: ELECTIVE). I said I wanted the ELECTIVE surgery and I made an appointment for 10 days later. He said he had an opening a week later, but I had to make arrangements with work. My ankle is as good as new. My only complaint about the surgery is that they made me stay in the hospital for 6 days after the surgery.
Granted Japan has issues in the country side, but that's a doctor shortage as much as it is a bed shortage, but all of this fear people are putting into others has just got to stop.
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Farmboy
movieguy,
My wife waited four hours the other day. That isn't BS, though we aren't in in the Tokyo area.
The system is Japan is adequate, I think, but the quality is spotty. Your doctor might be the best in the world or just some kid with no experience who reads the standard procedure but doesn't get the big picture. Still, 85 percent of the time, it's good enough.
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kenbrady
Loki520, how utterly conservative of you to throw "tort reform" at us as if that's truly the reason that things are screwed up.
If [frivolous] lawsuits are such a major issue in the cost of health care, then why are hospital groups, insurance companies (and pharma, since you mentioned it) in the US showing such significant profits? You'd think such unregulated that would pretty much put them all out of business.
Also, I find it telling that you want to keep the government out of the health care business where it might benefit individuals but are happy to have it intervene where it might benefit corporations.
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kenbrady
Sorry: "such unregulated frivolity as that would pretty much..."
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432cestus80
There is no perfect health care program, but it can be corrected depending on the economic trend. Presently, Japan's Health Insurance is too expensive of its premium. Foreign workers cannot afford premiums of health insurances, whereby foreign workers or nikkeijin just simply ignore with a mindset... "que sera, sera" "whatever will be, will be". But what is ironic is the Japan's political leaders who are just naive on this kind of issue. As well as the poor implementation of Japan's Labor Laws that makes it more complicated in the implementation of health insurance laws. However, I have known that Japanese are well disciplined and business geniuses, they can tackle every issue with ease. Other countries cannot because of strong beliefs of democratic life there is always debates on issues.
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thedeath
are you an american? watch "Sicko"
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buddha4brains
The Washington Post had an interesting myth busting story about healthcare outside the US. That is, if you dare to read it.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/08/21/AR2009082101778.html
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sinjuku
Well, let me see, illegal immigrants have milked the US out of $1.2 billion in Texas, 1.4 billion in California, and some have the US total cost at 10.7 billion for totally free medical care. Throw in the the advanced technology and world class training ? Seems like a no brainer... THE USA !
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