Sunday May 27, 2012

JAPAN NEWS AND DISCUSSION

What is the difference between patriotism and nationalism? Can they or should they be taught in the classroom?

Have Your Say Feb. 04, 2010 - 03:06AM JST ( 29 )

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29 Comments

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ppayneFeb. 04, 2010 - 03:52AM JST

A blog post I recently made on this subject: http://www.peterpayne.net/2010/01/patriotism-in-japan.html
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asan11Feb. 04, 2010 - 04:23AM JST

I say that patriotism is a love and active support of one's country in a way that seeks to make sure the country is heading in a good direction, even it it includes things such as dissent. Nationalism can take on many definitions, but the most negative in my opinion is the notion that one's country is superior and all other people are beneath them. A more neutral brand of nationalism can be seen as "everything for the country, by the country." This is just my opinion of course.
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yabitsFeb. 04, 2010 - 05:54AM JST

The difference between the two should definitely be taught.

Nationalism is a form of patriotism on the cheap. It's what the person really meant when he said that "Patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel."

To refer to another great quote: "My country, right or wrong; if right, to be kept right; and if wrong, to be set right." This concept of "setting right" a country gone wrong implies non-violent non-cooperation and civil disobedience. Therefore, patriotism is more about ideals, and nationalism is more about symbols.

One more example: A patriot would defend the right of someone to burn a flag of their own country in protest (in support of the ideal of freedom of expression), while a nationalist would oppose it, attaching a kind of sacredness to the cloth symbol while denying what it truly stands for.
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NeoJamalFeb. 04, 2010 - 07:00AM JST

Biased reporting by the media of Allied states against patriotism practised by former Axis states.
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Triple888Feb. 04, 2010 - 07:55AM JST

Patriotism is defensive and nationalism is offensive.
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AngeloFeb. 04, 2010 - 09:30AM JST

The difference is greed (not willing to share with others). These things are not to be tought in schools. It should be governed by laws.
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OdogmaFeb. 04, 2010 - 09:43AM JST

They mean different things to different nations and peoples.There is no American equivalent for European notions of patria;likewise, Japanese blood ties to the their land are not soon understood by many foreigners in Japan.
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cliffworksFeb. 04, 2010 - 09:54AM JST

Patriotism is the willingness to kill and be killed for trivial reasons. Bertrand Russell
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OdogmaFeb. 04, 2010 - 12:39PM JST

Patriotism is the willingness to kill and be killed for trivial reasons. Bertrand Russell

Of course, Russell's patriotism took the form of letting others die for his trivial reasons....
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combinibentoFeb. 04, 2010 - 01:00PM JST

Patriotism is taking pride in your nation's values. It should be taught in schools. Nationalism is the belief, regardless of and without a critical analysis of its values, that your nation is superior to others.
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dolphingirlFeb. 04, 2010 - 02:06PM JST

Patriotism is love of one's country and is more concerned with the common good but it doesn't mean that you have to agree with everything your country stands for.

Nationalism has a negative connotation to it since it stresses the importance of one's country over others and a collective or ethnic identity which can include a negative view of foreigners.

Neither should be 'taught' in schools but patriotism might naturally come out of learning about one's country in an objective way.
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SeiharinokazeFeb. 04, 2010 - 02:20PM JST

Patriotism is love for one's own country, in most cases for the country where you were born and raised. It's a simple and ingenuous feeling. Nationalism is what you do not get to realize until you are put in geopolitical realities where the national interests of a country clash with other's. To tell the plain fact in today's context, it's simply about how you unctuously resist to the overriding demand by superpowers.
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donkusaiFeb. 04, 2010 - 02:39PM JST

I find patriotism to be caring for and wanting the best for your country. This can just as easily take the form of criticising your own country if that is what is needed to draw attention to damaging practices or false idealism. As a result, the main aim of patriotism can be the overall improvement of one's country.

Nationalism, on the other hand, is the belief that your country is intrinsically better than others, no matter if your country is in the right or the wrong. Unfortunately, nationalism lies as the main cause for most wars over the past century or more. Many people label nationalism as patriotism, even though they are quite different. Nationalism should never be taught in schools, though it is possible for patriotism to be taught under the guise of civil responsibility.
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johnnyrebFeb. 04, 2010 - 04:08PM JST

patriotism is loving america. nationalism and/or communism is loving any other country. at least that's what gw bush taught me...
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alphawolfFeb. 04, 2010 - 08:44PM JST

I looked this up a long time ago.. I seem to remember that Patriotism is backing up your country, loving it blah blah and Nationalism is the same thing but a willingness to allow the government have much more power over the people for the "good" of the country.. and to do it without question.
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lincolnmanFeb. 04, 2010 - 09:07PM JST

Patriotism is love of your country or its values without judging or comparing it to any other country or people - it is non-judgemental. Patriotism also allows criticism.

Nationalism is love of your country or its values along with a judgemental component such as ethnocentrism, fascism or xenophobia that compels citizens or their government to beleive that they are superior to other countries or people. Nationalism does not recognize criticism.

Both should defintitely be taught and the distiction made clear - along with past and present examples of each......
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gonemadFeb. 04, 2010 - 09:29PM JST

Patriotism is the love towards the own social and cultural environment in much the same way like children love their parents. With the exception of extreme cases, it doesn't depend on whether parents behave better or worse towards their children. Just like filial imprinting, you cannot teach it and the only way to influence it is to modify the social context as a whole.

Nationalism is a completely different concept. It is the definition of a group out of the antagonism towards other groups. The purpose is to conceal conflicts within the group. When a coherent inner definition of the group is missing, nationalism easily resorts to worshiping of empty symbols. You can teach nationalism in school, but do you want to teach ignorance, arrogance or hatred to your children?

Although patriotism and nationalism are most often used in the context of countries, they can apply in just the same way to any other group, smaller but also bigger ones. A good example for supra-national nationalistic behavior (oh what a term :-) is just here in front of your eyes when you read the comments in JT made by people from western countries.
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dammitFeb. 05, 2010 - 07:59AM JST

Patriotism is a positive thing. A fondness or affection for your country, complete with a desire to improve things in that country that need improving and a common sense of inherited shame for the wrongs committed in the name of your country by people in the past. This sense of shame should not be overwhelming though, and you certainly shouldn't be expected to bow and scrape and apologise your entire life for things done before you were born, but you should be aware of them and feel strongly that such things were wrong, and brought shame on your country. That way you can help make sure they never happen again.

Nationalism is a negative thing, an unreasonable belief that your country is always right and therefore anyone who tries to change it must automatically be some sort of enemy, even if they're just the opposition leader. The wrongs committed in the name of your country by people in the past are something to be proud of, and certainly never apologised for. Anyone who suggests that these acts were anything other than great is obviously the enemy and violence is automatically the best way of dealing with them, whether it's the man next door, the leader of the opposition, or a foreigner who says it was bad. And if it's a foreign leader in a foreign country then he or she is obviously a terrorist. That's nationalism, a twisted form of patriotism for the nut-jobs of this world.
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timorborderFeb. 05, 2010 - 10:24AM JST

Good to see everybody butchering that famous quote about the difference between these two concepts.

And to answer the second question, no these values should not be rammed down the throat of individuals under the guise of education. Rather, the individual should be allowed to develop their own set of beliefs (including patriotism) as a net result of the interactions they experience.

Nationalism on the other hand is the bxstard child of propaganda, whose path can only lead to misery, division, destruction, and ultimately death. Indeed, look at those countries who espoused nationalism in the 20th Century. A whole generation of English/German/French, etc. youth was erased during the First World War due to Nationalism. That exercise was so much fun that it was repeated in World War 2.
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guestFeb. 05, 2010 - 10:38AM JST

Patriotism, is freedom and love, it freely comes straight from the heart.

Nationalism, is forced, bullied, born out of fear, and insecurity.
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FarmboyFeb. 05, 2010 - 11:05AM JST

The differences have been noted above. Both words, however, have been used to indoctrinate children (and adults) to do things they would not ordinarily do or believe things they wouldn't ordinarily believe. Governments use both words to rewrite history, or at least to slant it.
British folks and Americans, just for an example, have a remarkably different view of the Boston Tea Party. You remember...the event when the treasonous criminals took the law into their own hands? Or do you remember the patriots who threw off the yoke of oppression?

Personally, I agree that patriotism is a good thing, but maybe it should be allowed to develop naturally. If schools do the job of teaching students to examine facts critically and form opinions carefully, I'd be content. That's a big enough job.
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XXXXXFeb. 05, 2010 - 02:48PM JST

patriotism=US nationalism=JP
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mareo2Feb. 05, 2010 - 06:00PM JST

Patriotism. You love your country enough for risk your life defending your home for the sake of your family and friends.

Nationalism. You hate foreigners and minorities, because you think that that your race and/or culture is superior and must to remain "pure". Anyone that dared to say that your country did something wrong is an "enemy" or a "traitor". Tendency to paranoid conspiracy theories, police and militaristic state.

In short, a nationalist is like the patriotic version of a religious fanatic, with censorship and inquisitors. Are religion and patriotism bad? No as long a there is no fanatics that think that the use of violence is fine in the name of Good or the Country.

Do "patriotism" have to be teached in schools? No. Why? Do we teach religion is schools? In Japan we teached in schools that the Emperor was a living God and that japanese "race and culture" was superior. Nationalism and religion. What we got? Two nuked cities, become a client state of the USA and millions of asians dead. It was a good idea? I and many japanese school teachers think that is a terrible idea.
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SargeFeb. 05, 2010 - 06:08PM JST

Anyone who has been taught to read can look up the meanings of patriotism and nationalism in a Webster's or an Oxford or a Random House Dictionary, and of course these words should be taught in the classroom, why shouldn't they be?!
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limboinjapanFeb. 05, 2010 - 08:24PM JST

Patriotism is the pride you feel for your country's values and how it treats its citizens and the rest of the world!

When a country feels it must TEACH patriotism then something is wrong in that country!

Once you start TEACHING patriotism you inevitably slide into NATIONALISM which bring with it discrimination, xenophobia, intolerance and hatred!
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donkusaiFeb. 05, 2010 - 10:07PM JST

Patriotism, is freedom and love, it freely comes straight from the heart. Nationalism, is forced, bullied, born out of fear, and insecurity.

Not at all. Nationalism is not always forced, but often comes out of overzealous patriotism. Nationalists can love their country so much, they can want to enforce it on others.

A lot of good comments here, except perhaps the ones like "patriotism=US nationalism=JP", which clearly show a strong nationalistic slant (in this case toward the US).
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MissingJapanFeb. 05, 2010 - 10:25PM JST

johnnyreb is right -- in good ole W's uh-MUR-i-ca there was only supposed to be ONE acceptable expression of patriotism, and anything else was viewed (by him) as disloyal, or as "aiding the terrorists." Let's hope we can get beyond such dangerous and simple-minded nonsense. During my years in Japan I drew the impression that compared to Americans the Japanese had a much more sophisticated approach to appreciating their country. They felt free to point out its flaws, and suggest improvements, without fear of being called disloyal.

Japanese aren't given to loudly proclaiming that their country is "#1" in this or that respect, either... that always strikes me as evidence that the proclaimer actually has real doubts. It's like I read somewhere -- people only jump up and down and shout about things they actually aren't totally sure of (think "USA is #1," "Jesus is Coming!," "American cars are the BEST!" etc). No one jumps up and down to shout about things they are completely sure of... (think, "The sun is definitely going to rise tomorrow!!!"). Chants of "USA, #1" has the flavor of people trying to convince themselves of something....

I'm a proud US servicemember who's not afraid to take an honest look at his own country... so if you're tempted to call me disloyal, please re-read what I said 25 times before doing so... thanks :-)