Is a man giving up his seat to a woman on a train or bus an outdated form of respect?
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62 Comments
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0
serindipity
Is a woman giving up her seat for a man an updated form of equality?
0
rjd_jr
Nice question (wink wink). I personally don't think so, but I'm not sure what the feminookies think about this.
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outofmydepth
as far as i know it has never been in fashion here.
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smartacus
Does gallantry ever go out of style? My mom used to say no. Actually, the last time I did this on the Yamanote line, the lady I stood up for refused to sit down in my seat. And while we were gesturing at each other, some guy plopped down onto the seat.
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seimei
Japanese guys could learn a thing or two about respect in general from this form of gallantry.
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stanoue
I think it's a nice form of respect. No reason why women's equality and men offering seats to the ladies can't both work together, the latter is just a politeness thing. Besides, I will offer my seat to an elderly person - there should be a pecking order for those seats.
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Sarge
The other day I offered ny seat to a woman standing holding a baby, and she refused.
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Pukey2
I'll offer it to a woman if she is elderly, handicapped, pregnant or maybe if we're both standing to begin with. But I see absolutely no reason to give up my seat for other women, unless I know them personally. And I've never seen men do otherwise on the trains in any country.
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ColAmerica
Pukey- I agree with most of your post , though a man is less likely to give up his seat in Japan, and in Korea come to that.
I would always offer my seat to a pregnant woman or an elderly or infirm person of eother gender.
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cow76
It's blatantly sexist, treating women as the 'weaker sex'. However, I always give up my seat to anyone that needs it, pregnant women included.
0
escape_artist
If a woman is in need -- disabled for any reason, carrying a lot of things, has small kids she needs to hold, looks tired, is elderly, pregnant, etc. -- or I know them, like my wife, then mostly like for men, yes, I'd give up my seat. But not simply because she's a woman.
I don't expect it, but would a woman give up her seat to me in similar situations? After thousands of miles logged on trains in Japan, I've never once experienced this. I would also never expect anyone to give up their seat to me just because I'm a guy. And all this applies to any seat, not just in the so-called silver seat areas.
Definitely outdated.
In the same manner, I try to always take a peek and hold a door open for someone behind me, regardless of their gender, and especially if she/he needs help getting through. This is another form of thinking of others I don't see enough of in Japan, mainly in the big cities. I don't go abroad often, though... is it really any different in Australia/NZ, the U.S., Canada, Britain or the like?
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Azrael
No, definitely it's not outdated.
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some14some
certainly not but i have noticed it is outdated in Japan.
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Farmboy
I suppose it's outdated, but it hasn't been replaced by any new form of respect. Respect itself seems to be going out of style.
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JackDorff
It`s not outdated, although sometimes when I try to show such courtesy here I get a look of contempt. The pregnant women certainly appreciate it though.
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GeorgeRoper
Strewth, if i went on the bus and there was only one seat left, and i took it and made Mildred stand up, there would be hell to pay.
Inj the old days if you didn`t get up your seat for an old person or a woman, you would get a clip round the ear from an adult.
These days people don`t care about old fashioned manners, even Jerry give up his seat after downing a bottle of Scotch.
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PeaceMissileUSA
Good call Mr Roper sir. Many young folk have lost the art of chivalry.
Thye weak must be cared for and giving up a seat to someone needy is a manner taht should be taught from a very early age.
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ExPrinceska
I was once given a seat by a German man on the bus in Germany. I was delighted. But then it struck me - maybe he thought me pregnant which was not the case and I was ashamed of the metaboli syndrom that made me look like a pregnant woman :(
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ExPrinceska
But still it is so nice if a man gives a seat to a woman, so nice gentlemanlike gesture, women will like it I think. I will like it. But the salarymen on the train will never give their seats. It is a lost cause in Japan. Maybe in europe men give seats but in Japan no. Hopefully the gaijinmen do it to fellow gaijinwomen, not only to the Japanese ladies.
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Sarge
Princess - That must have been a disconcerting experience! But it's entirely possible the man who offered you his seat was just being a gentleman ( like me )!
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ExPrinceska
Well, Sarge, i do not know, I will always have my suspicions that the kind German guy gave me the seat because he decided I looked pregnant but of course I wish it was for another reason. I really doubt that gentlemen exist anymore, only in books I think that is why it is good to read Victorian books.
0
DerekTrotter
I always give me seat up to ladies and pensioners of course.
My dear old mum said on her deathbed "He who gives up his seat for someone needy, shall have a seat next to god".
I always reminded Rodney about that, so he would grow up proper like me.
If we can
t think about others, then whats the point in thinking then!0
Sarge
Princess - I and DerekTrotter exist - therefore gentlemen exist!
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Betting
I think it is getting outmoded. Probably with the next generation of youngsters it'll probably be gone. I won't give my seat up to a young woman (anyone under 60). But I'll give up my seat to anyone looking frail or sick (male or female) and of course ... pregnant women :)
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bamboohat
I'd give up my seat to an old woman, maybe. I'll admit though that sometimes I'll look around and think to myself "if they aren't, I certainly ain't gonna.."
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romulus3
romulus has issues on this. for an old lady I would or even a very old man but when I take the train and my son is asleep on my shoulder, Japanese young people sitting in priority seats see me and DO NOT GIVE UP THE SEAT. So romulus is not weak. I just say in english and very loudly "OFF" and they move and run to another carriage. What a selfish and miserable nation. My son ways 16 kilo at 2.9 years old and when he is sleeping its a dead weight. I need to arms to support him. I cannot hold the handrail. Its dangerous for my son but they never think about him. Last week I went ballistic and yelled in Japanese "get of the seat you selfish Japanese person. This is for elderly and parents with small kids. Why cannot you open your eyes and see". I cleared the whole priority seat section and an old lady got a seat too. she gave me a big smile.
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Quirinus3
Quirinus agrees with Romulus3.
I had to make people on Japanese trains give up priority seats for the elderly many times.
Japanese have good manners, so they so to the world, NOT true, their manners are a disgrace!!
Educate the young to respect others not just themselves.
0
Pukey2
I'm wondering whether you would have yelled if it was the New York subway.
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akaguma
if women want to be treated as equals in society in terms of salary and other entitlements then the concept of the 'gentleman' giving up his seat for the poor, vulnerable woman is a little outdated. i'm sure such a concept will rankle with all the southern-styled military boofheads
0
idealist
Equality cannot be reduced to black and white. Men and women are not "equal", because the word man and the word woman are different words. What does that mean? Further, I am not Bob, and Bob is not me... My name's not Bob and I've never met him. So even men and other men aren't "equal". Nothing is "equal", per se.
The best we can take from the idea of "equality" is to not make rash or hasty judgments about others, and to try to help others, no matter if they're "equal" or not.
0
WMD
This 2008. This is just not an issue anymore. We are all equal as is always rammed down our throats. Man=woman, woman=man. They are totally the same thing. Seat exchange doesn't exist anymore as there's no reason for it.
0
rranta
Being polite doesn't end by changing years. How can you value being a gentleman, if you don't behave like one.
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Nippon5
Ok First of all this subject has nothing to do with who is equal or not.. You dont give up your seat because the lady cant stand, you do it to be kind and you feel that person looks like they need the seat more then you do.I give up my seat to any person that looks like they need it more then me (old person, woman who is pregnent, person with child lady or man with arms full of stuff), but very rarely do they give up a seat to me when I have my 3 year old and my 6 year old in toll. I have to remind them that the seats are for people who really need them in Japanese and they always move, some talk under their breath but still move. I have had young women give up normal seats for me so I can sit down while holding my daughter, I have also had young men do the same. I dont think this ios a fad or a fashion that can go in or out of style. I feel this is a personal belief that you either have or you dont have and in my family we have this belief. My 12 year old gives up his seat when ever he sees someone who needs it more and he gets a big smile in helping someone.. So maybe its dissapearing because people just dont want to do it, but those of us who still believe in curtosy will always hold the door, pick up the item dropped, or give up our seat to those who are in need..
To those who dont give up your seat... remember you will get old and need to sit on the train sooner or later.. do on to other as you would have them do on to you...
0
LFRAgain
It's definitely outdated, as it should be. But I don't necessarily see it as a sign of the decline of manners, respect, and Western Civilization.
The premise that a woman needs to sit more so than a man because she simply lacks the physical stamina to stand for long periods of time is clearly insulting to her and blatantly sexist, even if the intentions are pure. There's no reason to assume that a woman can't stand as long or as well as a man. Women give birth, for Pete's sake. That requires a pain threshold and stamina that few men can scarely imagine.
Conversely, there is no real reason NOT to offer someone a seat, either male or female, just to be nice. Which is the general policy I adopt. If I'm not feeling particularly tuckered out and can stand on the train, then I'll stand. If there's plenty of room on the train, I'll sit. And if I'm beat and I'm sitting in a packed train when a woman boards, I'm not certainly going to give that seat to her for no other reason than her genitals being different from mine. Not gonna' happen. And it isn't because I don't respect women. Personally, I'd like to think demonstrating respect for the opposite sex involves something a little more substantial than, "Oh, you poor thing. Here. Take my seat."
It's common sense, of course, that if it's someone with a number of packages or small children, or physically encumbered in some way, then I'll give up my seat as a matter of course. But again, the idea of just being nice should be the main rule of thumb, rather than some archaic idea of "gentlemanly" conduct born in a time when women weren't even allowed to vote, much less receive equal education.
0
JeromeInJapan
For the old woman from tofu store... yes no problem.
For the yellow haired orange skinned teenage girl who frequents Harajuku and Shinjuku... no freakin way!
0
GW
lfr
I dont see anybody on this thread mentioning giving up seats for young able bodied women, & clearly there is no need to.
We all need to give up our seats to the eldery & folks obviously struggling with kids, groceries etc.
there is one exception though in my book I flat out will not give my seat to some chick loaded with those stupid oversized point brand bags looking like they are about to fall of their high heels, forget those type, I expecially hate them when their damned bags take up seats, these types can rot in hell for all I care, ok rant over, felt good, carry on!
0
buggerlugs
I was brought up to have good manners. Ladies first, give your seat to those more needy than yourself, help people with heavy bags or buggys on stairs. these are just a few examples. If you do not do these things then you are not a nice person. I always remember the time I was in Hawaii, a lady was walking through the door behind me so I held it open. She accused me of thinking she was weak and that she was equal, well I replied "I'm British" and let the door go, moral of the story; be nice even to idiots who have no understading of good manners. And yes I would have held the door for a man . japan often lacks manners in big cities.
0
isthistheend
Romulus, could you offer a romaji translation of how you said; "get out of the seat you selfish Japanese person. This is for elderly and parents with small kids. Why cannot you open your eyes and see". I'd like to use it someday...maybe. Concerning this issue, what do you think is the cause of such "hear no evil see no evil" type of mentality? They don't think we have tongues (or guts) to call them out on their poor behavior, or what? Thanks.
0
Sarge
isthistheend - Here's a sort and sweet version of what you want:
"Teme! Tatte!"
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Sarge
isthistheend - Not that I'm recommending you say that to anyone...
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Schoolboyerror
Yep - outdated. If the person isn't old, pregnant or disabled, they won't be getting my seat. That said, I never sit in the priority seats, so I shouldn't be their first port of call anyway.
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Nippon5
Temee Tate? Maybe Sarge
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isthistheend
Thanks. I like that. Teme! Tatte! Is it O.K. to say that to women too? or is this Teme just for the gentlemen of the group?
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rjdsr
I paid the same amount for my ticket. I see a seat, I take it. If you want the seat, get there first. No more handouts for the lazy!
0
uperjer
chivalry isn't dead. i give up my seat because it's the right thing to do.
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isthistheend
There is ALWAYS someone to give your seat up to. Ever notice? You give it up once, you can give it up 1000 times and there'll still be someone to give it up to. Why do you think so many people sleep on the trains? They want to stay put! But seriously, as foreigners, hurray for chivalry, and I'll join the ranks on occasion when there's reallyh someone in need. I'm surprised that no one here has mentioned how the natives will often refuse to take the seat that you offer, not wanting to be shamed. I've had that happen more than I can count. So it gets to be tricky. Do I make the gesture and then be chagrined/refused? Or should I just stay put like all the natives. Then there are the cases when just as I stand up, someone about 2 seats down suddenly stands up, not to be out-shamed by a foreigner.
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Sarge
isthistheend - On second thought, forget "Teme! Tatte!" That could wind up very nasty. Instead, say, "Kare ( or Kanojyo in the case of a woman ) tsukaresou naa" ( He/she looks tired ). Yeah, I know that's lame...
"There's always someone to give your seat up to."
Not on Amtrak ha ha ha
0
lipscombe
I wont stop being polite, it amuses me to see the Japanese who look at my holding the door-open as if it were a covered pit trap tactic.
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Blue_Tiger
No, it isn't: it is common courtesy, not to mention chivalry and gentlemanly. When I'm traveling on the train, bus, or subway alone, I usually give my seat up if it is crowded. If I'm with my wife, I usually don't...
0
Blue_Tiger
Agreed, lipscombe...I usually get that "Okay, when's the other shoe going to fall?" look...
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lipscombe
yeah, it's annoying when they actually look you in the eye and then take a detour to open a door themselves, still we try eh...
0
Triple888
Women nowadays aren't really women in the traditional sense. So should not be treated according the traditions.
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OgieDoggie
Moot point people... in my view since it will be IMPOSSIBLE to move (get up from seat, move side ways..etc) on those crowded morning trains, even if you wanted to give up your seat you wouldn't be able to get out of it.
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bushlover
I won't give my seat up to a woman. I may be accused of being sexist. I believe in equality for all.
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toolongheremaybe
It's nice to stand up and offer a seat to a woman. I have done it many times, and it usually makes a woman's day. She probably tells all her friends about it and says how foreigners are such gentleman.
BUT, don't be surprised if you are first refused. A lady of 80 who obviously is dying to sit down will often say no first. Just offer again, and they will, or explain that you are getting off soon. Some of you forget that Japanese of the old school of manners will sometimes refuse once or twice for politeness. Even some foreigners still do that. Offering your seat and having someone say no at first doesn't mean they hate foreigners. And the advice of saying "temee tatte" is stupid. Maybe it was a joke, but some people who don't know Japanese might actually say it. Any foreigner who said that to a Japanese on a train needs to go back home.
0
omarbabilon
I do it, and i think it's not outdated, stupid or sexist. It is really hard to see a salary man giving his seat to an old, pregnant or handicaped women, I'm sorry to say this... but for me is unacceptable. Anyway, in another situation if i want to give my seat to a young lady, who maybe is tired... why not?..., maybe she could be more safe from chikans and perverts. Outadated?, stupid?, sexist?, so sorry dude... i was teached if you are men you are stronger than a woman..., why not to make a difference in a country where women are treated as second class citizens.
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Jayeln
Everyday's a tough war to fight with ojisans in order to get the seat in trains..
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Richard_III
Yep, I'll give my seat unconditionally to a pregnant or elderly lady; if I'm stood up and and there's an empty seat in front of me and a lady next to me, then I'll offer it to her first. If i'm at the stairs and a lady is struggling with a suitcase or pushchair I always like to help out as well.
If anything, it's nice to do these things if not to distinguish yourself from the uncouth extremely poorly mannered rabble of Japanese men, whom I believe by and large to have shocking manners.
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Philosophy187
There is a social institution called Time Management - All women and men grow equally. It is not my fault that you are old ,pregnant, cripple or retarted - google the schedule and get with the program.
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