JAPAN NEWS AND DISCUSSION
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In an OECD survey of 36 nations on people's perceptions of their living conditions, Japan ranked 21st in terms of quality of life; Australia, Norway and the U.S. were the top 3. What do you think of that?
( 12 )
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The Fukuoka mayor is banning public servants from drinking alcohol for a month; the Osaka mayor has declared war on tattoos on civil servants. What do you think of all this?
( 21 )
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Why do you think Facebook's stock failed to live up to the hype in its trading debut?
( 13 )
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Which sport, when played well, do you think is the most exciting to watch?
( 62 )
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What's the difference between an average burger and a great one?
( 12 )
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- Business Teaching Positions - Part-time - Kanto Region
- Interac, Tokyo
- Salary: ¥3,000 ~ ¥5,000 / Hour
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- National Relief/Substitute Teacher - summer start
- Interac, Tokyo
- Salary: ¥275,000 ~ ¥300,000 / Month
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- 営業パーソン
- 加治金属工業株式会社, Tochigi
- Salary: ¥240,000 ~ ¥350,000 / Month Negotiable
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47 Comments
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smartacus
I think that in Japanese culture, the most important thing about someone who commits suicide to avoid prosecution or atone for an accident due to negligence or scandal is that the act expiates the sin. No matter what the person has done, once he or she commits suicide, an investigation into that person's affairs almost always comes to a halt and certainly there is no more coverage by the media. It effectively wipes the slate clean.
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rjd_jr
I think it is the honorable thing to do. I've stated this before on a similar thread, but to characterize suicide in these cases, such as head of a company involved with negligence resulting in injury/death, as being "cowardly" or somehow wrong is totally inaccurate.
You see, one only has to see the headlines of heads of corporations and leaders, period, the world over, who have little to no remorse or guilt for their wrong doings. Look at the CEO's of those corporations who have lost billions, and are bankrupt, due to their horrid decisions countries futures are at stake, citizens are without jobs and nothing to feed their kids. And for this, they are rewarded with hundreds of millions in stock and other compensations, and laugh all the way to their retirement villas (or yet another cushy CEO job), as the victims of their recklessness suffer.
So when I see people, such as Jp leaders, CEO's and the like, committing suicide, it means they are taking the ultimate responsibility and accountability for their mistakes. They are saying they do not deserve to live for the suffering they caused. No one can deny that that is the ultimate sense of taking responsibility.
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GW
rjd jr
I deny it so there
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some14some
In japan it is like a tone that makes corruption firmer and stronger.
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Razor
Where does this idea of suicide for atonement have its origins? Is it a bushido thing? It would be interesting to hear from Japanese readers on this topic. I think it is mainly older execs that still believe in suicide for atonement. The next generation of Japanese leaders won't hold such beliefs.
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Brainiac
In the case of an accident like a train or plane crash, I would rather see the executive stay in his or her post and make changes in the company, rather than bailing out.
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NuckinFutz
A cowards way out!
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outofmydepth
chicken`s way out. i agree with brianiac.
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lipscombe
it denies victims the satisfaction of seeing justice (admittedly, justice is a long shot) and further encourages the belief that there is something honourable about killing yourself with a vacuum cleaner cable. Samurai these fools are not, just criminals.
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KissMint
There's always that lone voice supporting anything Japanese, no matter what... It gets so tiresome after a while...
I agree with Brainiac, NuckinFutz, et al.
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Schoolboyerror
rjd is right in that it is deplorable to see anyone getting away with it; however, it certainly suicide in itself certainly isn't an act of taking responsibility, let alone the ultimate. That would be helping all the facts come to light, compensating anyone you damaged, making sure it didn't happen again, etc.
I also wouldn't call suicide cowardly - it must take some guts to overcome the fear of the unknown and kill yourself. I'm glad, however, to see CEOs and government officials doing it - it's one less parasitic pension for the system to support in future, and it does mean they won't be doing it again.
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TPOJ
They are saying they do not deserve to live for the suffering they caused. No one can deny that that is the ultimate sense of taking responsibility.
I'll deny it.
Your argument would make sense, except for the fact that these people only kill themselves after they're caught.
Maybe after an accident, or being caught for a one time thing (even then, it's extremely questionable.) But when you do something for years and only "atone" when people find out about it? Bulls***.
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Pop123
Huh? How does taking your own life atone for anything? Two wrongs don't make a right. Those who want someone to die for his mistake or wrongdoing is merely seeking revenge. Those who think taking their own life will pay for the mistake or wrongdoing are making another mistake.
The man of courage is the one who admits his mistake and takes pains to face those he has wronged and makes amends as best he can. The idea that you can make up for anything by taking your life is faulty and also immoral.
People who take their lives are not cowards unless you are a cruel mass murderer like Hitler. People like that are afraid to face the justice. But many who kill themselves are depressed. There is no honour in taking your life. It is a misplaced act of honour.
Society needs to have compassion. Compassion is better than suicide. In life we make mistakes all the time and humility and compassion provide the means of redemption, not suicide.
Many Japanese need to know that because the idea of sucide as an honourable means of saving face is actually quite meaningless and achieves zilch. There is a better way and that is the way of humility, compassion and forgiveness.
Since we are not Jesus who is perfect and sinless no one can atone for the sins of another or even his own. Everyone deserves another chance and no one needs to take his or her own life. This is my humble opinion. Arigato.
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JeromeInJapan
These people should stay alive and help those that they have disadvantaged. Give 50% of their salary untill the damage is repaired or untill they die if they have killed someone.
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tclh
Suicide is a NO NO and NO,never! A man who commited suicide may think that it is all his faults and this is the only way out...etc, completely wrong. Like the tainted rice case, starting with globalization, then pollution ,then deals between governments,then desperation to pay bills&taxes...too many things involved and beyond individual control.Just live and face the music to see what will turn out,
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serindipity
This is a funny question. Does suicide really atone for wrongdoing? It may account for an admission of guilt, but that's about all.
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sageb1
The ultimate suicide is St heart redeeming loss of face.
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shammuk
its better than denying
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Spidey
Suicide only benefits the one who is committing it. Those left behind in its wake must deal with the repercussions it brings. Granted it takes a cetain level of courage to do it, however when that courage is motivated by shame and guilt, it truly is the easy way out. And having a society that puts little value on one's own existence coupled with the misplaced sense of honor that it brings doesn't help.
S
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Patto
"There's always that lone voice supporting anything Japanese, no matter what... It gets so tiresome after a while..." Dear Kissmint, I had an awful time with culture shock too. Just hang in there, and eventually you'll see how the Japanese system works out, even though it is preposterous from the POV of Western thought. In the meantime, I think nearly everyone vicariously enjoys a good bellyache. Regarding suicide, the Japanese I know would call it regrettable and in no way an atonement. It's so passe! Seppuku was an honor to be conducted only under honorable circumstances. There were also heroic suicides at times of war, for example. But few if any current suicides are honorable in any sense. What is really regrettable is when someone kills himself out of loyalty and takes the blame in place of the real culprit, who gets away with it and does it again.
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Nippon5
In a word
STUPID
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irabujapanu
Japanese media to blame..the "masskomi" takes it to the extreme and paints horrible pictures which may be wrong than facts. Also its becoming a defacto standard to commit suicide after wrongdoing..No justification for what the guy has done but think human life is much more valuable.
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thepro
just another bizarre part of a really strange culture
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Nessie
Jero, totally agree.
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jmarc
face up your responsability, don't avoid them. face your clients angers and face justice, that's been a man. There's to much sense of shame in jp culture. If the comit suicide it's is mostly to avoid the same i think. Kinda bushido code. Seppuku is a way to regain your lost honor.
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ichinensei
pathetic attitude. that's what i think.
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seriousfugu
cowardly - plain and simple.
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rjd_jr
Totally agree with shammuck. In the bigger scheme of things it is irrelevant whether it is a Japanese leader/CEO or someone from another country, my opinion would be the same (only mentioned it from a jp perspective as this is a japan related website after all). After all, it's not only Jp leaders/CEO's that have ever committed suicide after scandals and wrongdoings.
From those who surmise it as being part of bushido and seppuku I would fathom that is correct. Suicide in its traditional Jp sense was to restore a sense of lost honor or shame. From a cultural standpoint, those in Jp scandals who commit suicide I would believe do so in order to atone for the wrongdoings of their institutions. Again, so many crooks get away with destroying lives and get rewarded for it or slaps on the wrist, so to have someone take responsibility for it by taking their lives is far more honorable to me.
And a leader/CEO committing suicide is far, far different situation from a situation where a brutal killer and the like commit suicide. Different mindset, different situation.
Don't let nationality or culture cloud your opinions at times people.
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lipscombe
ahahahahahahahahahahahaha
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Crimsonsil
Doesn't really help fix the problem, and you can't do much good to anyone else dead...
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NYC_Samurai
Saves the taxpayers money. Can't do much bad to anyone else either
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akaguma
it makes a better impression if they can at least make the effort to leave a packet of tissues on their former person in order to compensate for any mess-related issues
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shreeree
I think if we all resolved are issues in such a way there would be no one left in this world but infants. We all have done things that we aren't proud of or felt shame about so we keep it to ourselves. The only difference is as long as it remains a secret it's not a scandal. So choosing suicide only taboos the ones left with the shame of what that family member has done causing others to shun them thinking their are mental issues in their family. All because of the sins of the one that was too cowardly to stay alive and rectify their errors. What is the need for being a forgiving person if death is the way of apologizing?
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KitsuneYoukai
Utterly ridiculous, is what I think. It's just a way of saving face or not owning up to your mistakes and taking responsibility for it.
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kokuryu
It is stupid. Once you end your life, it is over. If you did something wrong, admit to it, take the lumps that go with it, and begin anew with a fresh start and do not make the same mistakes twice. That is what life is all about.
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browny1
Suicides in these cases generally are an escape from the overwhelming oppressiveness cast by the "shame culture". To remain and survive in this society would be akin to a living hell for many. As noted earlier compassion and forgiveness are not woven into the fabric of this society to any great extent, as is generally the case in some other modern societies. There is no honour in takings one life under such conditions. It is not noble. The act only wreaks havoc with the lives of many others - most of whom are completely innocent. Those choosing escape over facing squarely the realities of their actions create so much sorrow, despair, anger, and head shaking - why, why, why? But they're dead and they don't have to be accountable - they escaped. Making the tough 30+ calls at night to tell people that their friend has "offed" himself and witnessing the wave of pain over the ensuing weeks, certainly knocks any notion of chivalry, as ascribed by some.
This society must begin to deal with the prevailing epidemic of self-murder and look inwards and see if there are some cultural misgivings that really need reflecting and acting upon.
30,000+ suicides a year equals misery for millions.
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solarbuster
Problem is most of the real bad guys don't sepuku. Even in the samurai period some leaders who had ordered many others to sepuku were finaly murdered by their retainers who made it look like sepuku to save their clans honor. Many good guys committed sepuku to cover up for idiots and crooks under them or above them. The same crooks or idiots would never have killed themselves so the crooks and idiots multiply while good guys become extinct. Saying that, I would encourage the good guys to try and live to put rights the faults others have caused, while at the same time encourage the crooks and idiots to sepuku before they breed another generation like themselves.
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Schoolboyerror
browny1
I think most of those have less to do with shame and more to do with having nothing to live for.
If I were just finishing university and starting out as a salariman, I'd give some thought to topping myself rather than sign away the next 40 odd years of my life.
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umioso
That may be the "easy way out", but it's a coward's cop-out. Stay alive, face the consequences, PAY in Dollars, Euros, Yuan, Yen or in jail time. That way, one will have the possibility of making amends, reimbursing theft or "paying a debt to society". Suicide is basically sociopathic and antisocial behavior. It is a permanent solution to what may be only a temporary problem.
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Schoolboyerror
the snag with that is that in Japan the "consequences" for the bigwigs often amount to nothing more than a couple of seconds of bows, fake tears and insincere apologies.
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ninjitsu182
If all else fails and there REALLY aren't any options, suicide would be an option. Is it not part of bushido?
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shreeree
Why do people always associate bushido with the common suicide. Bushido means "the way of the warrior" which if you aren't living your entire life as a samurai's. You have no business thinking you are dying like one. Besides, centuries ago they chose to take their own life before their enemies could rob them of it. It was a ritualistic ceremony that most of the time was witness or assisted by others. So what is honorable about killing your entire family, children, others on the street...ect...before killing yourself is consider "Bushido"? I think even linking the term to what is happening in Japan today is dishonoring the history of the Samurai that lived with honor and traditions. They would never have killed themselves over things such as being caught with drugs, prostitutes, extramartial affairs, or because their favorite talento did it, or financial difficulties like they are doing today. Those things are simple shames you live with and if you can't live with it where you are you move where people don't know you and start over.
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Molenir
I think its the cowards way out. It means you are running from responsibility, not taking responsibility for it. If you do something shameful, you should live to apologize, to atone for your actions if that is possible. And if it isn't, you should live to do what you can.
Suicide is nothing more then the ultimate means of running away from your problems, and evading responsibility.
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Triple888
It shows that they really cared for the disasters they caused by choosing to compensate for their mistakes with their most precise asset: life.
But those affected by the troubles could care less what they do to themselves.
So bottom line is, suicide does NOT solve other people's problem but only (probably) solve theirs.
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sageb1
suicide is the result of two millennia of oppressive cultural pressures from high up upon the common man, and is the legacy of a shame-based culture.
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