JAPAN NEWS AND DISCUSSION
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In an OECD survey of 36 nations on people's perceptions of their living conditions, Japan ranked 21st in terms of quality of life; Australia, Norway and the U.S. were the top 3. What do you think of that?
( 12 )
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The Fukuoka mayor is banning public servants from drinking alcohol for a month; the Osaka mayor has declared war on tattoos on civil servants. What do you think of all this?
( 21 )
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Why do you think Facebook's stock failed to live up to the hype in its trading debut?
( 13 )
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Which sport, when played well, do you think is the most exciting to watch?
( 62 )
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What's the difference between an average burger and a great one?
( 12 )
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- Business Teaching Positions - Part-time - Kanto Region
- Interac, Tokyo
- Salary: ¥3,000 ~ ¥5,000 / Hour
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- National Relief/Substitute Teacher - summer start
- Interac, Tokyo
- Salary: ¥275,000 ~ ¥300,000 / Month
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- 営業パーソン
- 加治金属工業株式会社, Tochigi
- Salary: ¥240,000 ~ ¥350,000 / Month Negotiable
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75 Comments
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tmarie
I hate the system. Where I am from everyone gets minimum wage. Why should the people listed above get tips while others don't? I don't mind tipping up to 20% IF the service has been excellent. This whole "I'm a waitress you must tip me even though the service was bad or average" is not good. Those who expect them are usually the worst out there in terms of service and attitude. When I go "back home" I don't tip unless I feel they deserve it. Then I am told by others that I "must" tip. No, I don't and won't.
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smartacus
I don't like the tipping system at all. I hope it never comes to Japan.
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societymike
One of the many things I love about Japan is NO TIPPING!
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Apsara
What tipping system? In Japan and in the country I come from there is no obligation to tip in restaurants or taxis.
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KallyPygous
What I don't understand about the tipping system in restaurants is that you tip after - how can you insure against your food being gobbed in if you tip after? The tip is then a reward for no phlegm? How would you know, in vichyssoise, for example?
As for tipping in taxis, excuse me? I would perhaps give the driver some money up front and ask him to shut up and keep his bigotry to himself, but at the end of the journey?
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Altria
There's a tipping system in restaurants and taxis?
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Weasel
Can't speak specifically from where you're from, but in the US, there are different minimum wages based upon one's job classification and the state one works in: http://www.dol.gov/esa/whd/state/tipped.htm
As far as tipping goes in my book, if you're a slug or have the attitude of a wolverine on meth, you'll be tipped accordingly.
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Farmboy
I prefer the Japanese system, where the price is higher, but tips are included.
In the US system, things are structured so that service people do not get a living wage unless their customers tip. Waiters and waitresses do not necessarily get minimum wage, and the responsibility for this is on the customer and not on the employer. If you work in a nice hotel, you'll make plenty, but if you work in a small local restaurant you will be poor unless the restaurant is very popular, in which case you'll be overworked.
Customers are not aware of this situation, and people are naturally cheap. They want to pay as little as possible and justify this however they need to. For these reasons, I think it's better to do what the Japanese do. Raise the price, and give service people a reasonable wage - no tipping.
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bushlover
All countries I have been to don't have tipping. The US and Canada are the exceptions. True 3rd world countries in that respect. The onus shouldn't be on the customer to pay more to the server to do their job. I hate when they come round when you have food in your mouth to ask you if everything is ok, especially when you want to tell them the food isn't that great. And then they expect a tip for this. Substandard pay should be fought against by the people in this industry and supported by the government. I don't mind paying a bit more for the items if I know the people make good money. But they also must not let their serving standards drop. A drop in customer service should also be grounds for dismissal by the employer. I like the service in Japan much more than in North America. And they don't get tips at all.
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Kronos
I do not like the tipping system. Include it in the price if you must and then allocate to the employees. So everyone knows what they are paying / receiving and the cash flows do not fluctuate.
Also a clarification: I have seen many places (not in Japan)where a tip is always expected & it is almost mandatory. In that case, it is not called a tip, it is a fee.
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Kronos
Farmboy:
Umm... If you know the salary before you accept the job, it is really one's own responsibility. You cannot expect to make a living based on a feeble wage and waiting for some unrealiable cash flow. If everyone has to "tip" you though, then it is basically an additional fee and not a tip.
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cleo
There is no tipping system in restaurants and taxis here. Good thing, too. On the whole the service is good, and if it isn't I don't need to use that particular restaurant/taxi company again. If the minimum wage people receive is not enough for them to live on, then the minimum wage needs to be raised.
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morriconelover
@Kronos: Many jobs in the US as cleaning staff or waitress have such a low salary, that even with two jobs, you wouldnt be able to maintain a decent living. Even harder as a parent. There are many books, studies, and articles about this. Youre saying that its peoples own responsability they have low paid jobs, well, if there are no other jobs to have, then its not like they chose it as a dream job. An american female journalist tried for a few months to change her life and live for a while as a cleaning staff to research the reality. And was shocked to see how hard her own economy became, and how hard everything became. And also that tipping was a really important part of the salary. Tipping should be a bonus, not something that sustains you. In Denmark where i am from, its not so normal to tip, cause salary is pretty high, no matter what job you have. Even paper delivery boys make higher salary than mcdonalds staff in america. The difference in salary can be shocking. But talking about tipping in generel, then its up to the different countries. Different places, different ways. Im glad though that Denmark and Japan dont really deal with tipping.
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Barelythere
"I prefer the Japanese system, where the price is higher, but tips are included."
I think it's actually called paying a humane-ish minimum wage as opposed to having the tip 'included'.
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bushlover
North American service industry workers are really in need of a union. This is where a union can benefit people. Yes the "minimum wage" if is below the poverty line then it should be raised.
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Farmboy
Barelythere and Kronos,
In the US, tipping IS the system. If you can't afford to tip, you can't afford to go out. When people take a waitperson job, they expect to be tipped. When they give great service, they expect a good tip. You can dislike it all you want, but that IS the system. I don't like the system either, but I leave a tip. Please don't visit a restaurant in the US if you don't understand this.
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AK619
People are getting the wrong idea about tipping. Tipping is not a system, or something a person or business expects to get. When a cutomer tips a service person, it's because his personality and service was outstanding to the customer. If the waiters service was bad, then they get no tip. A tip depends on the customer and how good he feels the waiter served him. To tax a customer tips for service is stealing money. You give money as a gift, towards thoughs you like and serve you well. Its the same with a street musician or entertainer, if you enjoyed his free performance, then you can give money out of your heart. This is the problem with Japan, no one gives out of the heart, they just expect someone should pay something out of business, not pleasure or happiness.
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cryogyny
I agree with the general sentiment against tipping in Japan for the service industry. Please castigate any American tourists you see attempting to pass over extra cash. Although I suspect that most Japanese service staff would graciously hand it back out of shame. Now if only we could pass on a similar message to landlords on the gratuities they are paid.
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Kronos
To Morriconelover & Farmboy:
Thanks for the replies. I understand how it works. But to clarify: Tip is supposed to be voluntary, hence the definition of a tip. If you "must" tip, then it is just another fee.
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TSRnow
Everyone here seems to be opposed to tipping, but I think there's some good in it.
In Japan, where the fee is included, you can expect a certain level of service. Whereas in some places I visited(mostly in Southern Europe, I'm sorry to say), without the expected tip, I could easily imagine some employees goofing off...
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Kronos
Sounds more like a bribe to me.
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Osakadaz
Tipping as an expected form of payment removes any joy that one gets from doing it..vehemently opposed to the practice.Some people from the US especially actually go to poorer countries on holidays and show too much largesse to the local population (ie: 3 days wages in one tip)..this makes it hard for other tourists and creates a nasty vibe when one cannot live up to a previous donation..it probably also perpetuates the idea that foreigners carry a lot of cash and encourages robbery too.
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telecasterplayer
Once, I mind-farted and forgot about the "no-tipping" system in Taxis. A Kyoto cab driver was laughing and waving his hand back and forth when I tried to tip him. It was a wonderful experience. Honesty in pricing is the best system.
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Rugbyfan
I'm from New Zealand and in NZ we don't tip. New Zealanders in the tourism and service industries pride themselves on their genuine friendliness and quality service. I've been to the US a few times and really don't like it when a tip is expected, especially when you can tell that the waiter is "pretending" to be nice. The same thing goes for some US airlines like United. I found the cabin attendants to be really "two faced". Please don't get me wrong, this is not an anti-USA rant by me but rather a hatred of the tipping system. I found the local people I met when travelling through the US, especially in North Carolina and Kentucky to very nice and friendly.
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Mittsu
if you want to tip, tip. If you don't, don't. Nobody can force you to do so. I have tipped in Japan and recipients generally ok with thaking it - dress it up as "buy yourself a drink because meal/ride/whatever was good".
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TSRnow
Ah, so it does! Tipping in Hotels have that sort of sense, doesn't it?
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M51T
Sorry farmboy, but I'm in the US and A right now and I haven't given a tip yet. Tips = fabulous service is a falsehood.
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TheGeneral
Rugbyfan,
You do realize that flight attendants don't work wages plus tips, right?
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ratpack
It sucks....i hate it. But in saying that if i get EXCELLENT service i will tip. But I detest the pathetic service you often get in places from people who have the mindset that they will get tipped anyway regardless of the service they give you...needless to say i dont tip them.
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Farmboy
No problem for me... your waitperson is the one who will care. The custom is to tip a certain minimum amount, and more if you get great service. You will be perceived as a cheapskate, and the waiter will not get a living wage. There are other people like you, though most are not U.S. citizens. As I said, I prefer the Japanese custom.
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Farmboy
I've been in Japan for a while, so I double-checked the salary for waitpeople. This is the first one I found: $3.63 plus tips, about 350 yen an hour plus tips.
http://careerlink.com/5/6/3/8/po/000083f.htm?src=simplyhired
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Disillusioned
I gave a ¥500 tip to a waitress in Tokyo bar a few years back and she took it to the manager who divided it up equally between all the staff. I reckon they got about ¥15 each. Don't tip in Japan. They have no idea what to do with it. I'll give a tip in Australia if I feel I have received exceptional service or if I want to get exceptional service, but other than that, no. - I've heard a few stories about Japanese traveling to the US and getting caught out by either not tipping or over tipping.
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Nessie
Which tipping system? Where?
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rajakumar
Tips are given to make people happier. Customers give to encourage good services by people. Customers also feel happy,that have done some deeds via tips.
People take tips because they want to get more richer. If you have the money to give ,no harm in giving to those who serve you in some ways.
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tmarie
In the US, tipping IS the system. If you can't afford to tip, you can't afford to go out. When people take a waitperson job, they expect to be tipped.Wait staff should never expect it. Those who behave accordingly get nothing from me. As for the sob story about pay, they know full well going into those jobs. Great waiters and waitress don't often complain about tips because people will tip them., It is the crappy staff that mumble about getting nothing and call the customers cheap. Seems they haven't learned how to treat customers.
And funny, I get better treatment in Japan where there are no tips. Americans and Canadians seem to have forgotten the whole definition of "gratuity". I don't give into peer pressure if the service was average at best - more so when my province pays them min wage. Greedy, greedy.
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Farmboy
Yes, I generally get better service in Japan, too. The system here is healthier all the way around. That doesn't change the custom in the US though. I think it's a good idea to buy a guidebook to check the custom in a country rather than expect the custom to be the same because the language is the same. Fodors or Rough Guide are suggestions. Tipping is expected because it's the custom in the US. Not tipping in the US (and probably in Canada), especially in smaller restaurants, is like kicking the poor, and elsewhere it just marks you as a cheapskate.
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bdaniel08
In France, tipping is not the system since in restaurants and coffee shop the tip is now always included...so you dont have to tip once more !
In taxi, do as you want but they expect a tip !
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bdaniel08
Farmboy
I dont know where in Japan you are speaking about but there is usually no tips for waiter, waitress and they are paid from 850 to 1500 yens an hour, depending the place and hours. (morning or evening, night)
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Farmboy
bdaniel, Sorry, the post referred to tipping the the US, but I wasn't clear about that. Yes, I like the Japanese system because the waiter/waitress get a reasonable salary, and all costs are included in the price.
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pawatan
I don't tip in Japan, nor does anybody else. What is this questions supposed to be about, exactly? I like the fact that people make a decent wage and nobody tips, if that's what's being asked.
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jigjapan
good for the one receiving it....
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LFRAgain
Want a tip? Get a job that doesn't requires one.
On a more serious note, I think I pretty much reached the limits of my patience with tips when "Tip Jars" started popping up at places like Starbucks and the 20-something staff behind the counter, in some inexplicable fit of overinflated self-entitlement, suddenly decided I should give them a little bit extra to do a job they were already being paid at least minimum wage for - a job that usually involved little more than pressing buttons or moving a pastry from a glass case to a glass plate with an apparently oppressively heavy set of metal tongs - all in a space that required moving no further than a meter or two to complete any given order.
Tipping is a bizarre "tradition" that truly needs to go the way of the dinosaurs, or probably more appropriately, the way of indentured slavery.
Pay a decent wage to people in the service industry and leave it at that. There are service industries that do it all over the world without a noticeable drop in profitability. Why should it be any different in places like the U.S.?
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OssanAmerica
Tipping may originally have started with good intent, an additional voluntary payment for services EXCPECTIONALLY well offered. Today here in the US it's a freaking MANDATORY SURCHARGE that is expected regardless of how pathetic and unacceptable the service has been. When I am in Japan I marvel at the no-tipping system that almost always comes with exceptional service. If there is one area that we need to "copy" from Japan, it's their no-tipping system. Besides, do we really think that cash tips are getting reported as income tax? Doesn't the IRS give a hoot about the multi-millions getting past them? A college kid told me that I was being insensitive to young people who get paid little and they need the tips. BS I told him, the restaurant should raise their prices and pay decent wages, and no tipping. What's really horrible is that this horrible tipping habit can be found in Europe as well. Tipping should be banned on a global scale as it simply encourages poor service and tax evasion.
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KitsuneYoukai
I heavily dislike it. Theres so much gray and situations that call for differences in the etiquette of tipping that also change without you even knowing until someone points it out; Oh! it's no longer 15% for good service but 18%. When the heck did it change?
It needs to stop and the employers should pay them more. I think putting that reponsibility of compensating employees for what employers will not pay is ridiculous. You always hear someone say; "I don't get paid enough" and quote you their actual pay. Why should a consumer be held responsible for it.
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XXXXX
tipping, what tipping?
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bushlover
LFRAgain, that 12:26 AM post was the best I've seen on tipping so far. I second that emotion.
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johnnyreb
there's no tipping in japan.
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onewrldoneppl
i've travelled with japanese people (departing from japan)overseas so, i've observed two types of japanese travellers:
1) the type who are completely oblivious of tipping and don't do it
2) the type who are extremely self-concious of the japanese reputation (deserved or undeserved) for being bad/non-tippers. these people usually OVER-tip. they tip everyone. they even tip bad service.
i cannot say which type of person is better/worse but, i usually try to remind/advise my fellow travellers beforehand or at least before the bill arrives.
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n3312
If I'm not mistaken, the only place in Japan that I saw a tip box at the counter is a Cold Stone Creamery branch. In the Philippines, I only give tips as a bonus to the one giving the service, specifically taxis. Some restaurants in the Philippines are weird in that regard. In the folder/clipboard/tray or even the bill itself, the words "NO SERVICE CHARGE" are displayed prominently, in large, boldface, uppercase letters. It's like they scream "TIP ME!!!" Still, I give tips depending on the service and/or the food. If the bill otherwise includes a service charge, no tips for you. Tips shouldn't be required. Because if it is, it wouldn't be a tip anymore, as another post said. It will become a fee.
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noborito
If it would lower the price of food yet. Because service in most places sucks and I wouldn't tip a thing.
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chinpira
Tipping is a joke... what exactly does "give great service" mean anyway? Shouldn't great service be included as a job requirement? Do they become my employee as soon as I enter the restaurant/taxi? meaning I have to subsidize their wage? Can I fire them if the service is bad?? "Give great service".... what does that really mean in the end? A fake smile and asking if everything is fine?? A dance routine on my table perhaps? of for a taxi, getting me to my destination without getting involved in accident?? Tipping/Begging... same thing. Sorry for the rant... I hate the idea of tipping - with a passion.
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Kwaabish
In Japan, I tip cabbies once in a while by letting them "keep the change". Of course, there is also the "kokorozuke" that you hand the staff at an onsen ryokan. But it's also amazing to get the level of service such as those at hotels in Japan and they absolutely refuse to take any tip.
However, when I'm in the States, it sickens me to think that the workers believe that they DESERVE a tip automatically, no matter what level of service provided.
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stirfry
well the service charge added to all bills is the same as a tip, and its mandatory...thats worse than tipping for excellent service or witholding one for shite service.
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stirfry
flight attendants get tips ?
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barkeep
i can agree w/ most of you that the tipping in the US is a bit out of hand .. i am american , i also spent 15yr behind the bar and in the restaurant buisness so i depended on my tips to make a living being my paycheck was 0.00 every week after taxes are taken out and healthcare is paid.but there was a comment above about what is good service?? good service to me is(was) that when you come dine w/ me (or drink) you have everything you need at any moment during your meal ...if your a regular guest you definately get preferential treatment(the best table, never wait for anything, and i also would know what u drink so by the time you sat down your drinks would be on the table waiting for you!!) now if you can name a restaurant in japan or anywhere else for that matter that does that .. please let me know and i will be sure to go... i feel that now when i travel back to the US ,the service is mostly poor , and they expect 20-25% ti[p no matter what ....ridiculous... and i recently went to atlantic city (new jersey) and shelled out tip after tip .. to the vallet,coat chk, concierge,etc.. just silly.. everyone has there hand out and they really dont do anything to deserve tips.. my point is here that yes i agree its gone overboard and the restaurant industry needs to address, my suggestion is add it to the bill!! as long as i dont get a bill for my dinner , then have to tip 20% ill be happy!!!! but i have a soft spot for tipping only because i depended on it for so long , but i did feel i went over and beyond my call of duty!!
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OssanAmerica
I disagree. I's rather pay a fixed service charge and get the service which is almost always very good (Japan) than be "forced" into paying an underserved tip for crappy service (USA).
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OssanAmerica
My mailman expects a tip from me every Christmas. He's a fraking Federal employee FFS. If my house caught fire do I have to tip the firemen who put it out?
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Azrael
Tipping system is highway robbery! u____u!
It's a microversion of that Japanese landlords do >.>;.
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UnagiDon
I don't have a problem with tipping per se, but I do have a problem with the expectation that tipping is standard, no matter how crappy or indifferent the service. Tipping should only be given when the service is beyond the norm. When I moved back to Canada from Japan, I suffered serious culture shock at just how awful and downright surly bank tellers and restaurant staff were - a 7-11 clerk in Japan gives better customer service.
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Badge213
In Japan I don't tip taxi drivers or restaurants.
In the USA I think its out of hand.
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Cicada
People dumb enough to take a job with low pay that depends on tips do not deserve to be tipped. The best way to protest the system is to never tip.
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seeker1
Cicada, that is really an inane statement. Some people don't have a choice in the matter, and take any job they can get. Having worked in a restaurant, I know that tips really help make ends meet sometimes. Tipping in the US does seem high, but I do tip for good service. There was one time that I almost left a penny tip. At a TR rib restaurant in SF, after the meal the waiter handed me the bill and stated that no service charge or tip was included on the bill. He was practically begging me to tip him.
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combinibento
The tips are not "included;" tips are gratuities which are by definition optional. In places where tips are customary, they are expected even when a "service charge" is included in the bill. A service charge may be split among employees but tips are specifically for whomever served you and thus should not be split or shared among others.
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escape_artist
The "tipping" system in the States, at least, has long been what the bonus system in Japanese corporations has become (for those who get them, anyway)... rarely based on merit anymore but rather an expected part of one's wages. Being forced to pay a "tip" under such a system, then, is ridiculous; it's not a tip anymore at all but a tax or extra charge that customers can't escape from if they want to eat there or use the service. "Bonuses" in Japan for the most part aren't really bonuses anymore either, but rather just portions of eligible workers' paychecks withheld and then paid out in ritual fashion twice a year.
In Japan, where there is no tipping expected (and long may it be that way!), there are other ways to "tip", or show appreciation for a job well done, satisfaction after a delicious meal, etc., such as simply being a return customer, or telling others about it so the place gets even more business. In the end this will help the business much more than a set percentage of "tips" being extracted from customers' wallets on each visit. Similarly, the best way to let a business know their service is poor is simply not to patronize it anymore, and to let others know the same. In my experience, businesses that force customers to pay such "tips" generally have the poorer service, quite simply because the workers have no incentive anymore -- for all sorts of reasons, not all monetary -- to please the customers and strive to make sure they return.
Tipping as it's entrenched in most businesses in the US is a farce. The fact that workers' livelihoods depend on receiving a fixed amount of "tips"(and in Japan, "bonuses") proves this. The tip jar on the counters of more and more places is a lot more honest and true to the real essence of tipping: letting customers have the freedom to give more, give less, or give nothing at all, but leaving that choice entirely up to them.
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morikun
Ossan -- good point about the mailman. What would happen if you didn't tip? Would you get worse service from the post office? Is that possible?
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Cicada
seeker1
I may have exaggerated, but rarely is anyone forced to take a job in which the pay is based largely on tipping. They do it because they think they can make money, and the whole system is unfair. Ugly women are tipped less as waitresses, for example.
I never tip, whatever the service is like. I am not the manager, judging and deciding how much they will be paid. If I am to do that, I myself should be paid. The managers and owners should decide what wages are appropriate and pay the workers themselves. Leave me out of it.
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junkface
They aren't as aggressive when asking for it. For domestic flights where in flight snacks are served. They usually have a styrofoam cup where you can tip them when they serve you. Additionally, when you leave the airplane after touching down, I've noticed on several occasions them holding out a cup for tip or leaving the cup somewhere where you notice it.
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DenDon
there isn't a tipping system
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KnowBetter
Tipping is like giving a 'treat' to a dog that does a trick or a banana to chimp that gets the answer right. In Canada and the U.S. the farking 'tards' behind the counter at any Starbucks expect some kind of tip and place their VERY noticeable "TIP" jar in front of you on the counter. Why must we tip at Starbucks and not at Mc Donalds when they bring your meal to your table because it was a 'special grill' order (i.e. 1/4 with cheese but no pickles, mustard or ketchup)?
Tipping turns me off and when I'm in countries where tipping is EXPECTED I just try to avoid the whole mess but either not using those services or only picking those that are so good that it's worth the hassle of judging what to pay the little 'preformer'.
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