Friday February 17, 2012

JAPAN NEWS AND DISCUSSION

What is the best way to get more men to take paternity leave?

Have Your Say Mar. 17, 2010 - 04:13AM JST ( 33 )

Order by Time Order by Popularity

33 Comments

0

TastyGreensMar. 17, 2010 - 05:58AM JST

First of all, it needs to be supported by Japanese corporate culture, not just from the legal perspective. Nobody wants to take extended time off to spend with their newborn if it's going to mean dirty looks from your co-workers for months after you return to work.

Secondly, it needs to be funded by the state. I don't know of anyone in Japan who can afford to take extended paternity leave without pay, especially when you factor in the costs associated with a newborn child.
0

motogaijinMar. 17, 2010 - 07:13AM JST

First of all, it needs to be supported by Japanese corporate culture, not just from the legal perspective.

Not just corporate culture, but the culture in general. Even if Hiro's job lets him take paternity, will he do it if his father, and his wife's mother and father badmouth him for not being manly enough? What about his friends? What about his wife?
0

OkinawamikeMar. 17, 2010 - 07:13AM JST

Come on, you know the only way to get a guy to do anything is to give him no other choice!

See "E" on the gas gage for more information.
0

hellhoundMar. 17, 2010 - 07:52AM JST

That baby excuse is a good idea! I will try that at work sometime!
0

sharpieMar. 17, 2010 - 08:33AM JST

everyone lves rules here. make it mandatory
0

sharpieMar. 17, 2010 - 08:39AM JST

for a majority of the men, its the way they were raised that it is the problem. you've got to work. i agree that sometimes they dont know why the hell they're working so hard, but when it's been pounded into your head from when you were little, and using your own parents and relatives as your only example, arent you just bound to be stuck in the same lame routine?

may be an extreme case but there are men out there that dont even know where the green tea is in the kitchen? do these types of men benefit from maternity leave? probably not. if anything, they'll be the cause of more trouble than help for their wives because now they've got to take care of 2 babies full time
0

5SpeedRacer5Mar. 17, 2010 - 08:53AM JST

Keep small babies from crying.
0

haganahMar. 17, 2010 - 08:55AM JST

“What is the best way to get more men to take paternity leave?”

Get more wives pregnant? Sounds just a little too obvious to me, but then maybe I am missing something about the way the question was set.
0

whiskeysourMar. 17, 2010 - 09:00AM JST

" What is the best way to get more men to take paternity leave? " I n Japan ? Is this a trick question ? Let me see ?

Occupation : English Teacher ** **What is paternity leave teacher ?

If I'm late five thousand yen (5000 yen) deduction of salary. Ten thousand yen (10000 yen) each day I take a dayoff during the scheduled work week. Seems to me I really don't have an option. When I do have a child, I have to hope my child is born on the weekend or Japanese national Holiday & hope for the best.In my situation i know I will get a serious talking to from my (final warning)employer.

Paternity leave is a joke for school (Japanese counterpart) teachers ( only if your a public school teacher ) and I seen my teacher have a 10 minute meeting in explaining his wife is expecting or taking the kid to the hospital. It's a fun life in japan. No wonder the birthrate is down.
0

bamboohatMar. 17, 2010 - 09:20AM JST

Make them want to.
0

noboritoMar. 17, 2010 - 09:51AM JST

Most wives don't want their husbands around. Most can't even take care of themselves after birth, i.e. they go home to their mothers house for 1 month to rest and recover. Heck my mother was in and out of the hospital in 2 days and back to work 3 days after that. Culture difference, but come on, the world doesn't stop. As for the fathers, most grow up to be like their fathers... only wanting their freedom, pink salons and nights out with the boys, under the pretense of work.
0

SushiSake3Mar. 17, 2010 - 11:07AM JST

Myself and most of my foreign mates here are young-ish dads and all have taken paternity leave and loved it. Societal/role expectations are powerful. No males in my family before my generation changed nappies or did much at all in terms of hands-on childcare. I'm doing everything I can, and without wanting to sound like I'm showing off, consider myself more of a well-rounded husband and very importantly - father - than any other older male relative in my family. I'd say most married J salarymen are husbands way more than they are fathers. Being a father means spending quality time with your kids. Working late and bringing home loads of cash may make you a provider, but not a father. J men should cut the crap and take the paternity leave.
0

LostinNagoyaMar. 17, 2010 - 11:15AM JST

I agree 100% with you, TastyGreen. State money and camaradage from co-workers would be a great incentive.
0

FrungyMar. 17, 2010 - 11:16AM JST

Noborito - I don't know where your wife had her baby but where I am there isn't any option, the new mother has to stay at the clinic for a week, although she may get time off for good behaviour ;). My wife said she needed the week to relax.

As for paternity leave, I was entitled to two days, but I sensed resistance so I came into work, cleared my desk and then headed off early about an hour after lunch (so 4 hours before "closing time"), and that seemed to satisfy my colleagues that I wasn't slacking off. The joke was that on day 1 I had been up since 10pm the previous night an holding my wife's hand until 8am that morning, then after the birth I dashed into work, arriving 10 minutes late, gave the news and then sat like a zombie for 2 hours drinking coffee and trying to figure out what was going on. Ironically people made comments about me being 10 minutes late, but sitting there for 2 hours drinking coffee was just fine.

If there's one thing Japan needs to get over it's this entire idea that presence = productivity. It doesn't. I know guys in my office who do in a week what I do in a day, but when bonus time comes around they get the same bonus I do, and sometimes more because they're often "working late" (i.e. socialising in the office or reading manga at their desks). I on the other hand get my work done, then head home because I get bored very quickly. I've tried offering to pick up work from my colleagues but this made me very unpopular since they're already struggling to make their workload last all week and don't want to be seen as having nothing to do.

I think this "presence-based" approach to business is probably my biggest pet peeve with the way that Japanese business works. I can understand that businesses want you "available", but I can be available on my ketai, online, or other ways without sitting at my desk drinking copious quantities of coffee and trying to stop my brains from oozing out my ears with boredom. The complete absence of tele-commuting in Japan also contributes to pollution and traffic congestion problems, plus the mind-warping boredom must contribute to the suicide rate. I know there's only so many times I can reorganise the stationary on my desk before I begin to think that perhaps death isn't entirely awful ;).
0

chottoMar. 17, 2010 - 11:21AM JST

Make it a legal requirement.

As Frungy said, this country needs to get over the "presence = productivity". Just take a look at JT's picture of the day of that 'politician' sleeping. Words fail me.
0

AzabuSamuraiMar. 17, 2010 - 01:53PM JST

If there's one thing Japan needs to get over it's this entire idea that presence = productivity.

@Frungy; so true and your logic is spot on. Its so annoying how salarimen/women think that if your not the office, you are not working. I think its jelousy and group mentality; we all must suffer and sacrafice together under the same conditions or its not work.
0

dolphingirlMar. 17, 2010 - 02:28PM JST

Frungy: Enjoyed reading your post. No matter how hard I try to understand when I hear about the mind-games that go on in offices here, I still cannot wrap my head around it!!

The child-care leave law only came into effect in 1992 so it's no wonder that the concept of a man taking time off to take care of his new born baby seems very foreign to most Japanese. I would guess that most people still believe that child-rearing is the woman's job.

However, times are a-changing...slowly. I remember talking to some of my middle-aged male students who did take their paternity and were very happy and excited to have the opportunity.

Unfortunately, many companies probably still frown on men who take time off to be at home. Add to that pressure from coworkers who think these fathers are lucky to have such a 'vacation'. Staying home to look after your baby isn't work!

Men can be great caregivers too! I really hope that Japan will open it's mind and see this. Otherwise children will continue to lack any real father figure in their lives.
0

blvtzpkMar. 17, 2010 - 02:30PM JST

@ Frungy & AzabuSamurai

Right on. Presence is everything. I can name a couple of TV shows, when regulars are not present, cardboard cut-outs of them are inserted in the place where they usually sit. And I don't think those cut-outs are ironic in the slightest. Perhaps these should be made for the workplace as well. ;)
0

5SpeedRacer5Mar. 17, 2010 - 07:24PM JST

"this country needs to get over the "presence = productivity". "

I won't abide it. Never could. I think it is a "least common denominator" mentality whereby actually judging performance and having a backbone to state your opinion about someone's performance are replaced by this yardstick of "time in the office."

I took a lot of time off work when each of my kids was born. Actually picked up and walked out on a couple of occasions, even when I was the boss. I mean work is work, but screw that... I'm a daddy!! If someone complains, they are toast. Don't come between people and their kids. They will mess you up.

On the flipside, if people don't want to work, I just send em home. Bad for morale. Having children is a happy time, and I know that loyalty earned from letting people enjoy their lives pays in spades. And you get loyalty from MOMMY as well as DADDY... see.. I am a smart guy. I am pretty sure that companies are compensated to some degree by governments for paternity leave, too. I can't believe people cannot work things out.

I have no complaints about having kids in Japan. I have put my foot down plenty of times and made some sacrifices, but Japan is aces.
0

tmarieMar. 17, 2010 - 10:46PM JST

Frungy, well written! The whole mentality of sitting there trying to look busy just pisses me off. I've already "informed" the hubby that if/when we have kids he WILL be taking time off. He will get away with it as well as his wife is a gaijin and they expect me to make such demands on him - even when I don't. Works out well for both of us as I get him around, he gets time off and the office probably feels sorry for him to be forced home by his wife! ;)

As for what needs to be done, we could be here all day discussing the cultural aspect of it, the useless fathers, the useless mothers that return home as they haven't a clue on how to look after a baby, the workers attitudes... In general Japan needs to wake up and start changing their attitudes about many things - this being just one thing.
0

Darren WhiteMar. 17, 2010 - 11:44PM JST

Wow ! That's a tough one ...

It needs a paradigm shift, but ( shhhhhhh ) it's happening slowly. More and more fathers are present at the birth of their child, and more and more fathers are taking an active role in childcare.

Best be quiet or the Oyaji will notice !
0

dammitMar. 18, 2010 - 07:26AM JST

Force them.

It's the only way.

Make it so companies are legally obliged to force men to take paternity leave. And make it paid (of course).
0

marcelsMar. 18, 2010 - 09:00AM JST

I think Japan has to enforce it into the legislation and for the men to actually get paid... But my worry is the J men wouldn,t know what to do with that spare time....
0

justmy2centsMar. 18, 2010 - 05:02PM JST

Is this question supposed to mean the few days off that fathers take when babies are born? Or does it mean the extended time up to a year after the baby is born, instead of the mother?
0

techallMar. 18, 2010 - 05:12PM JST

Things are changing but tradition had it that the wife goes home to mama in her last month of pregnancy and stays there for about two months after the baby is born to regain her strength. Meanwhile hubby plays bachelor, why whould he want to take leave?
0

dolphingirlMar. 18, 2010 - 08:54PM JST

Men do legally have the right to ask for parental leave. The company cannot refuse their request. Sadly, only about 1% of fathers take this leave.

There is maternity leave and child-care leave so, to my understanding, technically both parents can take time off.
0

AzabuSamuraiMar. 18, 2010 - 09:44PM JST

@techall has a good point. "satogaeri-shusan" (home town birth) is common. The wife is gone for a few months. Sure he could go with her but it would be awkward hanging out in the in-laws conservative village. They would want him at work because a)its normal b) when he's around the wife is expected to take care of him too. Now, the concept of telecommuting would solve the work issue. Women in Japan stay in hospital for up to a week after a normal birth (unlike the US where they get sent home in under 24 hrs). Traditionally they do this because the woman should rest and if she is sent home, her house care duties start.

What is needed for paternity leave to take hold is a mind-set adjustment of the man's role in birth, house care and wife support. And the acceptance of telecommuting.
0

ptolemyMar. 19, 2010 - 02:06AM JST

To the point, take the leave. It is your right under the law and the employer can be fined for refusing it. No need to worry about the tooth sucking office oyaji think. They are bitter if people even take their full lunch hour.

That is if you are a "full time" employee you have the right. Contract or part-time employee, you are screwed.
0

MediocremummyMar. 23, 2010 - 05:51PM JST

When I had the twins,hubby had to fight tooth and mouth to get just one day off! He explained that his wife was foreign,no family to help on his side so I was pretty much alone but his manager just commented "Well,that's your wife's problem.She'll have to deal with it". The love just flows.....We might be on our fourth soon.....I won't be in Japan when baby no 4 hits this world.Both hubby and I feel that Japan just isn't a family friendly country.