Why is teaching at English conversation schools in Japan such a maligned profession by some people?
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- Business Teaching Positions - Part-time - Kanto Region
- Interac, Tokyo
- Salary: ¥3,000 ~ ¥5,000 / Hour
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- National Relief/Substitute Teacher - summer start
- Interac, Tokyo
- Salary: ¥275,000 ~ ¥300,000 / Month
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- 営業パーソン
- 加治金属工業株式会社, Tochigi
- Salary: ¥240,000 ~ ¥350,000 / Month Negotiable
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120 Comments
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0
CoolCali
Because all too often the 'teachers' are irresponsible, unethical frat boys that have read one too many articles in soft porn fluff mags like "Maxim" portraying Japanese women as an easy mark. These jerks come over here, act like, well, like frat boys. It's been going on far too long, so now the profession has been scarred. If the J-govt wanted to, they could tighten up the requirements for teaching English conversation. Say a minimum being a TESOL/TOEFL cert. I don't know if that will ever happen though. Until then, I'll just keep providing the best I can for my students.
1
smartacus
I think the profession is unfairly maligned, especially by some readers on JT, who frequently say it is not a proper job. I have as much respect for dedicated English conversation school teachers as I do for any other profession in Japan.
For those teachers, if you enjoy your job, then don't let comments from ignorant people hurt you. There is no shame in what you do.
0
Maria
Because those who malign it are either snobs, or ex-teachers who were crap at teaching and just took the piss.
1
neverknow2
Because the people that work there have no training as teachers and many of them lied about even going to university.
0
Betting
Both sides are to blame I think. Many teachers come to Japan for the "Japan experience". Japan is viewed by many as a cool and interesting country so teaching provides an easy entry. For many of those teachers it is really a working holiday, so they don't treat it with as much professionalism as it should be.
And because it is a holiday and they need money to go out and have fun, they have refused (at some schools) national health insurance, pension etc as it would decimate their paypackets. I think helps erode professional standards as teaching here basically becomes a part-time job.
The Japanese haven't helped themsevles either. When I taught years ago, I overheard some older obasan-type students tell the staff, "We'd really prefer someone American, younger with blonde hair". Most students just aren't serious at all. Older women study so they can get out of the house and meet people. Without thinking parents make their kids study, not even knowing what that child will do in the future. Some older students study because their doctor recommended it to keep their brain active after retirement.
In short, it is a business that I hope will that will eventually fail and the only companies left will be the ones that will cater to a more motivated customer base that really needs it.
0
Disillusioned
That may be true for some teachers, but only a few. Most are professional, educated and enthusiastic teachers.
I was not aware teaching English was so maligned by anyone. Although, with the recent bankruptcy of GEOS and the stains left by the fall NOVA, that goose that was done for kiddy fiddling a few months ago and teacher's salaries dropping by nearly a third over the last four or five years it has created a very poor image of English teaching in Japan. When I first came to Japan a decade ago the impression of an English was that of admiration and respect. Now, I am apprehensive to tell people I teach English in Japan.
0
masterkun05
Because most teachers are young singles here for a holiday and cultural experience and have little teaching experience and no teaching qualifications. The low wage or salary and the fact their is little prospect for advancement reflects this. The pay is barely adequate for a single living in a Leo Palace let alone a family.
0
nigelboy
Getting paid for speaking the only language (even after a decade for some) you know. Why on earth would some people disrespect such profession??? (sarcasm)
0
SushiSake3
Partly because English teachers get paid to speak their own language, and most people both in and outside the teaching industry here know the system is chronically failing students. It doesn't help that JGov has made Japan the only country in the world where a foreigner can teach English without a teaching qualification.
0
Ninjazilla
It has less to do with the job than with alot of the teachers attitudes sometimes flat out racism behind or not even behind the students backs. But there are also some haters who seem to be jealous of the job.
0
pointofview
If you like teaching, go for it. People would just rather slag off the English conversation teacher instead of the currupt banker. The teaching job is more important too.
0
Monkeyz
I've noticed that a good chunk of the snobs like to say that English conversation schools suck because you "only" need a BA to work there and no other qualifications. Which makes it almost like just about every other job in Japan. Actually talk to Japanese people and you find folks with a degree in law, but they do accounting. Much like eikaiwa workers who have a degree in history but they teach English.
I understand when people have a low opinion of the frat boy types who are just here to screw girls and get wasted. I don't think lowly of my coworkers unless they keep calling in sick due to hangovers or sexually harass the staff.
0
nigelboy
At least they have to do "accounting". All these Eikaiwa "teachers" have to do is speak their native language.
0
Papigiulio
lol, I completely agree with coolcali. But I didnt know the pay was that low for a teacher. At GABA they pay like 300000 yen a mth if im not mistaking. That is a REALLY good pay.
0
my2sense
The industry, management and government let it go down the drain. No benefits, low salary and loss of interest from real teachers.... left with bottom of the barrel candidates/professionals. Actually in the 80s it was quite the thing to be an English teacher. As some state above they take anyone now I guess...no degree or (fake), no certifications, non-native speakers, dudes who want to chase tail, worker holidays. Then basically you have the in betweens who learn Japanese and break into a new racket--(finance, media, sales, head hunters, export) I would say 80% of the teachers here are absolute social idiots and suck at teaching. The remaining 20% are legit, hard working and add to this society by helping people, raising own families and paying taxes. On another note I have met tons of guys here and also working in Asia (Hong Kong, Bangkok, Singapore) who play themselves off as something they are not (ex-teachers) or they simply reinvent themselves. Betting had some other good points too. I would say all the teachers on here are that good 20% ; )
0
wontond
Because a few bad apples have spoiled the bunch...much like how a lot of us readers of j-today feel about the j-cops.
0
goddog
I know of people that teach English who made their own diplomas or printed them from on line.
0
Blacklabel
Because it does not require a special skill or a qualification to just hold a simple daily conversation with people in your own language. Especially when the people who you are getting paid to talk to don't know your language anyway and cant even tell if you are any good at your "job" or not.
0
manfromamerica
It's not TEACHING that's maligned, but the TEACHERS.
0
Speed
It's not what you do, but how well you do it. Many teachers are quite serious and professional about their approach to teaching English conversation here.
Some aren't and it seems that the reputation of the whole industry has been downgraded as such. Stereotypical comments about any industry are better left ignored.
If people in this or any industry work hard and are doing a good job, then that's a reason to be proud. There's no shame in that.
0
ronaldk
Well having gone from eikaiwa to a professional job in Japan, there are some very good points about teaching. You can get private students and build up your own business; much closer relationships with Japanese who can fill you in on Japanese culture, family, etc.; I actually used to tell jokes and laugh during my job (not anymore); easy to take time off; low stress besides the boredom; pay is perfectly satisfactory for middle class life. I think an Indian philosopher once said there is no shame for any person in doing something to support himself/herself or his/her family. I agree.
0
Blacklabel
It would also help if the profession as a whole had some actual "results" to be proud of. Like Japanese people as a whole actually getting BETTER at English over the last 20 years or something? Well THAT hasnt happened for sure....despite the trillions of yen spent and millions of hours of class time.
About the only "results" I have seen is an increase in marriages coming from student/teacher relationships. In years past it seemed to be more of a secret one night stand type thing going on with students.
0
ronaldk
Anyways, the gravy train has moved West. China is the new El Dorado for Eikaiwa. Heard the grammar is easier and basically same Kanjis.
0
Obot2008
@ SushiSake3 "JGov has made Japan the only country in the world where a foreigner can teach English without a teaching qualification."
wow you are so wrong, you can get those jobs in China and Korea all day long without a teaching certificate. what's more, at least japan requires a 4 year college degree to get a legal work visa...you don't need that in either of the afore mentioned countries, as well as many others...please be infomed or at least google something before you post...next
0
borscht
Some teachers just speak their native language; others teach it. There's a bit of a difference to those who teach. Such things as correct pronunciation and vocabulary are sometimes important to language learning and teaching.
0
masterkun05
Borscht u nailed it. Such a big difference between being able to speak English and being able to teach it effectively. Unfortunately most of the teachers of English are not professional teachers. Doesnt mean they cant contribute though. It depends on the level of English required by the student.
0
masterkun05
Would be nice if us Westerners could do other jobs here.
0
sarcasm123
People who want to come to Japan and can work, they come to Japan and work. People who want to come to Japan and can study, they come to Japan and study. People who want to come to Japan and can neither work nor study, they come to Japan and "teach" English. That is why this is a maligned profession.
0
marushka
Because for some male teachers teaching in japan is great opportunity to hang around and to meet with pretty japanese girls ( back to their home country, they would not have even a chance to meet such beautiful ladies)
0
ChopstickMaster
Hi everybody. How are things?
And why is this question limited to conversation schools?
At any rate, teaching English for the first couple of years in Japan is fine. I will allow it. Party while you're young, and all that. But not after five or so years.
0
Papigiulio
masterkun05? We Westeners CAN do other jobs. for that I am living proof. You must have been only using the Metropolis or Gaijinpot system. Ontopic, I agree with borscht, and in that I find that for English school they should only hire people WITH a (real) degree in teaching English.
0
Zenny11
Agree that english teacher should have some form of teaching qualification.
I also one that never worked as an english teacher as I already had 15yrs experience in my field and thus was elligible for a Visa. You either need a Uni-degree or a certain number of years of actual working experience to get a work visa.
HTH.
0
wiwaneko
Hm, I hope people won't think of me badly when I'm a teacher. I actually plan on going to university to major in English and I want to learn Japanese because I just don't understand how you can teach a language to someone properly when you can't even communicate with them. I want to be a teacher anyway, but I also love the Japanese culture, so I figured it'd be a good deal for me. (I also feel that you should have to get some certification to teach English.)
0
thundercat
I think that most people who criticize eikaiwa teachers are just jealous. These teachers are for the most part young and free of responsibility. They get a reasonable salary (for someone with no strings!), decent vacation and are able to meet attractive Japanese men and women.
0
michaelqtodd
We killed the golden goose
18 years ago when I first came her we used to get paid at least 7,000 yen an hour and often much more for an hour`s private lesson Now people are advertising on Gaijin Pot and elsewhere that they will work for 700 yen an hour.I said it then and will say it again we need to be like the taxi drivers
I coach Twitter strategies to businesses and charities now and do not teach English but I enjoyed it with people I chose to work with and would do it a few hours a week if the pay was different.We need to form a union and say we will NOT teach English anywhere at anytime for under 5000 yen
Taxi drivers control things like this.They are not allowed to take anyone into their cab for under 660 yen.We could be the same.Then many good quality teachers would come here and the whole thing would be done properly
Teachers would do 20 hours a week plus some preparation and travelling time and get at least 400,000 yen a month. A reasonable wage for a semi professional person.Thoughts?
0
MASSWIPE
Ah, this topic yet again. Strong feelings about this issue can be summed up in two words: Charisma Man. Like most things in life, it comes down to issues of sex and power. Thus, the more accurate question here should be "Why is there so much resentment of white males teaching English at any level in Japan?" Because white males are the target, of course. Females and non-whites who teach English in Japan are, generally speaking, assumed to be there for reasons beyond sexual satisfaction. Plus, it's assumed they have to put up with more unpleasant stuff, like sexism, loneliness, and negative racial profiling/discrimination.
Also, this resentment of white male English teachers in Japan results from the belief that a human being's value is derived from what he/she can do, skill-wise. The white male English teacher's blissful, care-free, well-sexed existence in Japan is a violation of the idea (among those who don't consider language teaching to be a skill) that there should be negative consequences to living life as a professionally unskilled, unmotivated person.
0
Icewind007
The reason is because people are blindly moved by mainstream news media. All people hear are the problems and the bad cases that some people are responsible for.
How often do you think news media would cover the good teachers and any progression in this area of teaching?
0
Good_Jorb
When I first came to Japan, I didn't think anything was wrong with English teachers but then I started to meet the "lifers". They hate Japan but because they lack any real marketable skills they can't go home either. So they become these petty bitter people, who by sight alone are enough to depress you and their conversations are so asinine it's painful. Then there is the whole westerns can't get any other job then an English teacher in Japan, an assumption believed by almost all English teachers and a lot of Japanese. If you're smart enough and work in the right professions you don't have to be an English teacher.
0
Zenny11
Hrm, not so sure if english teachers, etc got it so well. Maybe if they work for a high-school or University, and those guys do earn some good salaroes.
I always saw teaching at schools like NOVA, etc more like working in the fast-food Industry, etc.
As for them being sexed, ever watched the traders, brokers, etc in Roppongi and Shibuya?
Another thing that I think plays a role is how the school advertise their foreign teachers in the media.
And nevcer mind those absolute stupid and often incorrect english lessons you see on JR trains, etc.
One other thing, most foreigners that DON'T work as english teachers here are often very highly qualified with degrees for their profession, etc.
Whereas you only need to be a native english-speaker with ANY University degree to land a teaching job. And I have seen and met many non-native english speakers whose english was better ...
HTH.
0
Mark_McCracken
Perhaps people have become tired of maligning lawyers, bankers and flight attendants.
0
chotto
Because there are idiots in the system.
Some English teachers, be it at eikaiwa or in the school system, actually do care about their students and their progress (myself included).
Unfortunately, they are not the ones who get the press or the publicity. There are too many Japanophiles/otaku/introvert/social recluses who come to 'teach' English, and behave/act very oddly and do stupid, ignorant and obnoxious things.
0
gaijintraveller
Students have been led to believe that if they pay enough money, they will learn to speak English. However, to achieve the results that they require, they must work hard as well, and most are not prepared to do this.
Simply handing 500,000 yen to a business that claims to be a school will not miraculously provide fluency. If it did, I would happily part with 5,000,000 and become fluent in ten languages.
The teachers should not be maligned for the shortcomings of the schools like Nova that spend money on advertising and location instead of providing quality education.
The students themselves and the Japanese education system also deserve some blame. Students have been taught not to make mistakes with the result they are afraid to even try. If the Japanese education system taught them to learn from mistakes, they would not be afraid to make an effort to speak.
0
Zenny11
chotto.
I agree wth you. Have spoken to many guys and many do see a english teaching stunt as not nothing more than a paid holiday, like working in a kibbutz, etc.
Another thing that many forget that plan to come here for a 2~3yr trip is that it WON'T look good on their CV unless they want to work in a related industry.
Interwiewed on guy once for a position. Asked him why he took a 3yr break after Uni to work in XYZ. He said he wanted a break and play-time. Told him sorry, we don't have a position for him and he should have invested those 3yrs in getting experience as his current proffesional knowledge is now 3yrs outdated.
HTH.
0
Zenny11
stunt = stint
0
neverknow2
I don't know where you live, but it's obviously not Japan. I've been in Japan for 3 years. I'm not an English teacher, but every non Japanese I know is either a "DJ" or 'English Teacher". None of them went to university and all of them lied about their degree.
0
Zenny11
gaijintraveller.
I agree. My Japanese wife(RIP) chose a good school that also offered talks with NON-native english speaker. So she got used to a variety of accents(Important talking from personal experience).
Funny thing is after she came back from overseas(travelled for a few years) she was worried that her english was getting poor so took the TOEIC test and scored 98%. Which is a score I think most native speakers won't get.
HTH.
0
manfromamerica
LOL! I never heard the DJ one, but I know many "writers" and "musicians".
It's the teachers themselves who give english teaching a bad name.
0
KaptainKichigai
The same reason anything is trashed by anonymous online posters- ignorance. Your personal experience is one in 10 thousand a year. It is not enough inforation to make an informed opinion. Neither is mine. It is not a "maligned profeesion" to the millions of Japanese who want to study and practice the language,
0
Zenny11
KaptainKichigai.
Hate to burst your bubble. Seen the "average" japanese student or the "average" english teacher.
For many (both sides) it is a cheap dating/past-time option only.
Agreed I wouldn't call it "maligned" as such but for the average school I think my fast-food comparision holds true.
Many get sucked into "promises" that won't come true, fault on both sides teachers and strudents.
Nova showed that is was a scheme to get bums to warm seats and enrich certain pockets.
Myself not a native english nor japanese speaker and I can tell when a school/teacher is serious and when they sell a scheme that rips both students and "teachers" off.
0
KaptainKichigai
btw- many many many authentically certified English teachers dont work at "English conversation schools." Especially "long termers" who have had the intelligence to open small schools with very succesful classes or immersion programs that have an extremely satisfied and loyal student body. I think what is "maligned" is the exploitation of English by the Japanese companies and the young foreigners that serve as cogs in their mismanaged machines.
0
Zenny11
My Japanese wife decided to put our son into "Minerva" one of the better english schools for kids.
Lets see 3yrs later he STILL can't read english nor understand the english Alphabet(was never covered all phrases only). All the teachers are Japanese that got their certificates overseas.
Reason why, it is a "Day-care" that "supposedly" teaches english. And I can point out another 20 or so similar "businesses" in my area both overseas and japanese run.
This is the level of your average "english" school in Japan.
Same for many so called "international schools". Only person that benefits are the owners.
HTH.
0
jea711
I think we can classify English teachers into 2 groups. First one is, the young ones and working holiday visa holders. Most of them came to Japan just to get a taste of what this country is like and they needed a job and as everyone knows, if you can't speak good Japanese here, you couldn't land on any decent job not unless you're an executive. So, to sum it all, their only chance is to be an English teacher. Within this group, we can find those people that "Zenny11" and "neverknow2" were talking about.
The next group is for those people who preferred to settle here and got married with Japanese. You can find serious and enthusiastic teachers within this group. Although most of them don't really want to do the job in the beginning, but has already accepted that Japan has nothing to offer to them than English teaching. These people have really tried and still trying to look for a better job but companies offer limited types of jobs for limited professions. Most of these people are even willing to go on blue-collar job but there's nothing to be found so they ended up loving their English teaching job and become masters of the profession.
0
Zenny11
Clarification.
I came here to live with my japanese wife. When I got here I had a solid work-history in IT with companies like Siemens, EDS, etc.
So english teaching was never a consideration for me. Have met many english teachers of the above mentioned groups, said most of my friends are guys that work in non english-teaching jobs(translators, IT, etc)
0
papasmurfinjapan
I don't think the majority of Japanese people consider it a "maligned profession". The only people that think that are bitter expats who don't work in nor understand the English teaching industry, but whose judgment of those who work in it has been shaped by seeing one too many losers at bars who just happen to also be English teachers. One rotten apple spoils the tree indeed.
I've met just as many loser/playboy/otaku/drifter designers, engineers, traders, embassy workers as I have English teachers. The only difference is they all have chips on their shoulders thinking they are somehow better than those who have chosen English education as a career.
I quit my career as a translator/web designer to become an English teacher because believe it or not, I actually enjoy teaching people English more than staring at a computer for 12 hours a day. Other expats thought I was crazy. For me, it has been the most fulfilling job, and best career choice I ever made.
1
sakurala
I find it sad that so many people look down on English teachers. I know that there are quite a few of them that do a poor job but sometimes is not 100% their fault. A lot of English schools promise training and professional development so it seems like they will be able to improve and become more professional, respecable and skilled in the English teaching industry. Also they may be promised chances to advance in the industry to become a recruiter or trainer which does become some peoples golas. Too often though, these promises go unfullfilled.
Also, it really depends on the teacher. I know there are a lot of sleezy people who come: lots of guys wanting to get chicks, lots of people wanting to party and so on. As for me though, I have been here for 2 years and love teaching. I studied anthropology in university which I find really helpful in my current job as a teacher. I was able to learn to look for cultural differences which makes it easier to both hold conversations with people and conduct myself in more Japanese friendly way. Also through anthropology I had to study linguistics which does have some applications in my job even today. I take pride in my job and often stay late to prepare, help with extra activities and try to make myself seen in public as a positive person. I am very careful and try to promote foreigners in a positive light in my community! When I was teaching at an Eikaiwa, my students did improve! Some just wanted to chat and I was fine with that. However, I helped 2 students increase their TOEFL score by 20 points over 3 months...I know it was not just from me, but without someone to push them the results may have been less. These results can be achieved but there has to be the desire to teach and the desire to learn between the participants.
SO... when people say English teachers just want a holiday or just want to do that job because nothing else is available, I do take offense. This is my job, my life and my passion.
0
Zenny11
Papa.
I don't think anyone is denying that there are serious and good english teachers out there who truly enjoy theor profession.
It is more about the image that BOTH foreigners and Japanese have about the profession.
And Traders/Brokers/etc also didn't have that HOT an image last time I checked.
As was said both the english schools and students are to be blamed for the current image & situation.
Like I saad my son was at "minerva", after my japanese wife died I wanted to move him to Shane. He refused as they do actual english studies and are not run like a play-group.
This is the image of the serious english schools in Japan by many "takes too much effort", etc.
0
jea711
That's good for you Zenny11... but there's a big number of people out there who are not fortunate enough to have a solid qualification and can't even speak any other language than their native ones. I've been here in Japan almost half of my life and I met a lot of foreigners from all over the country with different back grounds.
Well, anyway, going back to the topic...I think if the society itself can change, no matter what job or profession you have, it wouldn't matter.
I think anywhere you go in the world, teaching is one of the greatest profession. Only...not being appreciated sometimes...not just with people around, but the teachers themselves.
0
Zenny11
Jea711.
Being european(non-native english speaker)we can usually speak 3~4 languages fluently(something we got in common with much of the world).
My Japanese wife could speak Japanese, english, korean, german and get by in French, spanish and italian.
It all depends on how serious you are about your life and profession.
I respect an english teacher who is qualified and integrates well into the society, don't have time for guys that want the easy ticket/holiday.
0
stevecpfc
I remember a while ago a similar topic with many stating their fluency in up to 14 languages, thesze user names seem to have gone though.
I refuse to teach English in Japan as i am not a qualified teacher and i don`t want to rip anyone off. I know quite a few who do , most only see it as easy money with private lessons and a very small percent have any real passion for the job.
0
manfromamerica
yes, the bitter 1% of foreigners in Japan?
0
mindovermatter
The TOEIC is written for people who are NON-Native English speakers, so it wouldn't surprise me one bit, and I'm sure you could find more than a few Native English Speakers, who are NON-Native Japanese speakers, running the streets here in Japan, that could score higher than most Native Japanese speakers on the JPL test.... What does it mean...? Not a damn thing... But I highly doubt she would score higher on an ACT or SAT in English than a Native speaker, and conversely, it would be true for a Foreigner taking a Japanese university entrance exam.
Btw: The TOEIC is graded on a points scale, 990 being the highest, not a percentage score. But I understand what you mean.
0
manfromamerica
That's just silly. I guess you can't tutor your kids in math because you aren't a licensed teacher? Of course you can teach, just don't lie and say you are a pro.
0
manfromamerica
There's nothing wrong with teaching. It's the post-college grads who need some "time off to get the pot out of their system and figure out what to do with their lives, so in the meantime they'll come to Japan to chase high school girls" type of teachers that look like the fools.
0
Zenny11
manfromamerica.
How come than that nearly all native speakers fail it? I have seen japanese companies require foreign staff to take it.
Ok, her actual score was 968 points.(percentage is goven in brackets).
0
stevecpfc
I left school at 16 and can`t even spell English too well as many here know.No way would i teach a language i am not 100% confident in myself.
0
manfromamerica
zenny11
Hey, I agree with you here.
papasmurfinjapan-
That's awesome. I am sure you are a good one.
0
Rico808
For the number of teachers in the system, it's quite amazing how many posters here claim to "know" what most teachers are like and make the comparison to "frat boys" and social outcasts. I don't see how you could make any assessment as to how serious someone is unless you've taken their lesson yourself. If you asked me, I could tell you that ALL of the teachers I know have university degrees and are quite intelligent in their own right. They are just as capable of teaching as anyone you'd find teaching ESL at your local public school. If you think teaching your own language is EASY, you obviously haven't done so. I'm sure there are plenty of English teachers and linguists in your own country that you could take that up with.
I think that most of us are forgetting that the problem is not with the teachers themselves at all, but with the system they are put in. Someone has to hire these teachers, both good and bad. So if selection is poor at times, whose fault is that? Not to mention the ridiculous materials and systems that the companies would have you teach with. You're not just set loose to do what you like. Also, you must consider the attitude of a large number of people studying English here. Effort and attitude are often poor at best. People's study habits who resemble a joke, will be taught like a joke in return. A person only has so much patience for insincerity.
0
Fadamor
A native English speaker teaching English isn't going to have a hard time, unless he/she is trying to cover what the college entrance exams want you to know. I've been speaking English all my life but would be hard-pressed to pick an intransitive verb out of a batch of gerunds. IMHO, technical details like that get in the way of actually learning the language. I can conjugate English verbs at will but the only reason I remember what that means is I studied Russian in college and have been learning Japanese on my own.
I'm a strong proponent of the "immersion" method of learning a language, but that won't help the students trying to pass the English-portion of their Japanese College Entrance Exams.
0
idicemic
"...by some people?" is a key part of the question. Teaching at English conversation schools in Japan isn't such a maligned profession by all people. So let's think about the "some" and the possible reasons:
1.) zero-experience coming into the job 2.) poor cultural tolerance 3.) a less-than professional take on the job, i.e. "I'm on a working holiday." 4.) large eikawa companies that do little or nothing to improve their customer's satisfaction 5.) an industry that wagers on high teacher rotation and low student turnover 6.) almost zero professionalization sponsorship for existing teachers by their companies (because they expect people to run off within a year, or break contract) 7.) a saturation of big business oriented eikawas (that fortunately is shrinking little by little) 8.) an assumption (by both teachers and companies) that speaking native English + a four-year degree qualifies most 9.) a failed recruitment issue where filling open teaching slots and emergency replacements has led to hasty hiring 10.) a testing culture, which works for most subjects but falls on its face with respect for language (a quirky skill that challenges both parts of the brain in uniquely different ways).
That's my top ten for why teaching at English conversation schools in Japan is such a maligned profession by some people. But not all.
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idicemic
...but I believe the eventual failure of most big eikawa type schools will open the door for the "real" English teachers out there.
Without haphazard visa sponsorship of poor native-speaking wannabe teachers, they'll have to leave the industry: they're either too lazy, too untrustworthy, or too unskilled to survive.
This will leave the door open for smaller, honest privatized schools where both the teacher and the student reap the most.
In the end, the only losers will be the ones that were never part of the better side of teaching English conversation: bad teachers and out-of-touch corporate types.
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wiwaneko
So would it be better to teach English at a high school if I plan on getting a college degree and everything to teach? It seems like the high school students at least would somewhat have to learn. I actually want to teach, not just play around and socialize.
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GW
wiwaneko,
if you want to teach DONT come to Jpn, stay where you are & teach there.
If you just want to come to Jpn for a year dont worry about it, just come over do yr thing & leave otherwise you`ll most likely just end up hurting yrself
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DentShop
I guess it is maligned.
It happens to be a very unusual market. There seems to be a massive oversupply of teachers and a dwindling demand from students - resulting in poor salaries and conditions.
Many people teaching English are migrants but not from countries with lower living standards. Migrants in Western countries would never want to go back and give up their new life, regardless of the setbacks - but for Western foreigners in Japan, the thought is always there.
They are not here for the opportunities or high living standards, it starts as a lark and once a significant other or child gets involved, does it become serious.
Possibly the first lot of foreigners in history not leaving their country for a better life who end up staying. Worth studying rather than maligning.
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OssanAmerica
There are some English teachers who are indeed losers. And they have created a very bad image for all English teachers, many of whom are educated, serious professionals. But it is wrong to assume that ALL English Teachers are like that.
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Good_Jorb
You wouldn't charge your kid money for tutoring him. When you have no actual teaching skills/background and you are charging for your "English Teaching" services, it becomes a bit of a point of ethics. More so if your English ability is, to put it politely, lacking.
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motogaijin
I wrote a diatribe about this, but I'm just going to do a few talking points. This is coming from someone who did teach in Japan (sort of, I was an ALT, but one who had a high degree of autonomy)
-Some foreign teachers are hardworking passionate people, but the majority are lazy kids looking to get paid vacation for a few years, or otaku hoping to live out their anime/manga video game fantasies.
-When hardworking people are outnumbered 10 to 1 in a profession, it makes the profession look bad overall.
-It's trendy for females to know a little and to associate with Westerners (specifically Westerners), but by and large, most Japanese do not care about English. Some people actually hate it because it was thrust on them in school. The derision comes with the negative association.
-Many Westerners who do other things in Japan started as English teachers. They were put down, so once they move on to something else, they feel a need to put down existing teachers to distance themselves from the general perception of laziness and incompetence surrounding English teachers.
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Badsey
Whenever there are this many complaints about something --> it just means there is a huge opportunity for someone to come along and innovate ($$$). Learning is innovation in its' purest context.
I am sort of surprised that so many people are stuck on that 2nd language when you would think they should be on their 4th or 5th by now? Maybe if they would put more energy in learning than in trying to not learn? Life is struggle though
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moonbeams
Aside from the stereotype of I came to Japan to party Gaijin (funny I never met one), and the facts that it's easy to become a "teacher" and most of the teachers are "unqualified," the overwhelming majority of of the jobs available are designed to cater to the temporary employee. No insurance, no bonus, no pension and prorated salary. No overtime. In fact, most teachers are limited to just 29.5 hours so their companies can save from paying shakaihoken. These conditions make it a crappy job.
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moonbeams
Wiwaneko,
Do come to Japan.
But stay two more years and get your masters.
Everyone here has a BA and it's almost worthless in competing for a good position. Get your masters and maybe you can get a non-alt position. Good luck.
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Teachmeteachyou
I've met some really good teachers in my days doing Eikaiwa. It is a bit of an alternative profession, easy to get into and offering very poor conditions for anyone who wants to live here long term (though this can be helped by having well-paying private classes, I suppose). It's a case of the bad ones, for whom there is no filter in place to stop, damaging the reputation of the good ones. It is really prejudicial to generalise from the bad so I won't do it.
I should add here that there is a vicious circle involved in the logic here. Many of the customers in Eikaiwa are not only there to learn English, but also as a social exercise, a kind of club a bit like the circles in university life. So the schools cater to this, meaning that the qualities of a good Eikaiwa teacher are to be entertaining, funny, sociable, compassionate, a good conversationalist etc. Whether these are values esteemed in the general workplace or teaching profession is another matter, but open-minded people will realise that it's a unique profession that partly due to snobbery doesn't get the respect it deserves, even when done well by it's own standards.
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CHAMADE
Probably because it implies a pathetic failure to achieve a stable, more respectable source of income doing something more professionally legitimate at home??
Anyone who's ever visited Japan for over a week has probably come across dozens of flaky Pacific flostam types who wash up on the shores here without any qualifications whatsover, no money, no interest in Japan other than as a source of relatively easy money or easy sex, unsuccessful people or young adults -- here on a stopover on a self-discovery trip abroad. Then there are the government-sponsored 'teachers' who get sent to tiny villages in Aomori, recruited from young, easily manageable types who apply from their homelands but who also have minimal or no training nor experience in 'teaching English'.
Personally, given this country's virulent nationalism and adherence to neo-mercantilism and protectionism as a means to conduct trade, I'd say if knowledge is indeed power, then why in heavens name are Americans, whose country suffers from a decades-long and unsustainable trade deficit with Japan, empowering their staunch commercial adversaries by teaching them their language in the first place? They should be learning Japanese.
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sf2k
LOL... best choice between a web designer and english teacher? That's a toughie. Could have been worse though, you might have said graphic designer. For the trifecta you might try insurance, and your journey to the gaijin jobzone dark side will be complete...
Anyway, glad to see someone enjoying their position
However to answer the question of 'why is it much maligned' is that I can't possibly hold my head up high knowing that anyone with a pulse can basically get hired to do the same thing. There's not a lot of respect as a result. That shows up on the street when chided by Japanese themselves.
In the multiple decades of English teachers in Japan, the Japanese Only signs remain, a testament to this lack of respect and lack of communication thus showing Eikaiwa to be the fraud that is has always been.
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geronimo2006
It's not a profession. Professions normally have associations with registered members and limits membership by way of qualifications and experience to ensure standards backed by law. Replace the word profession with entertainer or prostitute (depending on your opinion).
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Youdontknow
I've been doing it for over ten years here, but 9 of those on my own. I live in a rural area, so there's really nothing else for me to do. However, I'm not complaining...I make my own hours, make more money than most 'teachers' do here who work a 45 hour work week, as well as many Japanese workers in various professions.
When NOVA collapsed in 2007, they pulled the English business down with them and the knock on effect is undeniable. Japanese people are also waking up and realizing that they really don't need to pay exuberant prices for lessons, books, cd's, dvd's etc...and still have little to show for it after three years of study!
A good teacher is worth his or her weight in gold - but woe the teacher who does too good a job in an Eikaiwa! Your boss wants to keep syphoning money from the 'client' as long as possible - who are you to even think that making the student speak proper English (or other languages) is okay?
And personally, I'd rather stare at a computer screen 12 hours a day than have to regurgitate meaningless conversations to people, who when they see you outside, couldn't give you the time of day!
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Blacklabel
I just dont get why all these "hardworking and passionate about teaching English" teachers dont stay in their own country and teach? Are there not millions of immigrants in your country that need to learn English?
Could it be that your own country actually has standards and qualifications needed to teach and that also a teacher's pay is not that much? So call it what it is, it is the easiest way to call yourself a "teacher" without having to be qualified. Plus you make more than real teacher makes. Win-win situation for some, but call it what it is, dont try to convince me you are a "teacher" or that you have a "profession".
If you want the respect of a "real" teacher, move to California, get your teaching LICENSE and teach night classes to Mexican immigrants for $10 an hour. Then I will believe all this "I have a passion for teaching the language" nonsense.
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tigerguy
Loser knucklehead "entertainers" who act like charisma man superstars have ruined the reputation for most quality teachers. English teaching in Japan has always been likened to junkfood fast food chain restaurants - they're cheap, ubiquitous and very bad for you. The so called teachers or entertainers that I've met have been total knuckleheads.
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Sarge
Because some people are social idiots.
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wiwaneko
Yeah, I was thinking about teaching in the US for a few years, just so I'd have 'experience' and it'd look better. I never thought about getting a masters, though. Thanks.
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amerijap
Because it's a menial labor. Most schools don't set a clear academic standard to evaluating students' performance. It's not a school affliated with academic institutions that provide students with special skills and qualifications that go beyond the language proficiency.
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pandaclair
I was an eikaiwa teacher for a few years. I met some teachers who really did care about teaching English, and worked really hard for their students. Then there were some who didn't really care about teaching as a career, but still took their jobs seriously and did what they could. And then there were others who did the bare minimum just for a paycheck (and access to Japanese women in many cases).
I was reluctant to admit to people I met in Japan that I was an English teacher, because they really are a dime a dozen. But the system as a whole is flawed. Japanese people are less likely to study abroad than they used to be, and with the need for English-speaking Japanese on the rise, many companies are taking advantage of the situation by bringing foreigners TO Japan. The teachers are treated as expendible, and as such the teachers know they are just putting in a year or two before heading back to their home countries.
Honestly, whenever my students asked me what they should do to improve their English, I always just told them to move to an English-speaking country for as long as possible. No matter how much Japanese I learned at home, it wasn't until I lived in Japan for about a year when I became pretty proficient and comfortable using it, and even after 3 years I still didn't have the skill level required to pass JLPT 1. Foreign language study takes time, dedication, and a lot of practice. One hour a week with some American/Australian/British/etc. college graduate won't do it.
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tigerguy
Reading all the comments I can summarize that people think that English teaching is an easy ticket to Japan (for desperate and dateless men) and thus access to all the women that they cannot get back home. I agree with the comment that there should be more strict guidelines to filter out the unqualified people. A person with a masters degree in English will get the same pay as an unqualified (degree-less) person with a spouse visa.
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TheRat
Have to have some STANDARDS on who they hire, particularly as ALTs. My wife was telling me about one Filipino guy that is gay and would dress up as a woman on weekends and do some entertaining on the side, (sex and all) to make some extra money. So many have no related experience at all in teaching English. This is ridiculous. Would you hire a carpenter who had no experience or training to fix your house? Heck no! Once they the simple standard that you must have a Bachelors in English education or in English (literature, etc) then the same ole problems will happen.
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scotchegg
You missed out recruitment.
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Nessie
What the heck does "maligned" mean?
-- signed, eikaiwa no sensei.
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tigerguy
Nessie, a perfect example of why eikaiwa is in the dumps right now. A minimum of TESOL or some receognized TEFL course should be required. None of these weird people masquerading as teachers.
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johnshiomi
I've been teaching English in Japan for 13 years... 3 as an ALT and 10 with my own small business. Gees... I didnt know that teaching at English conversation schools was considered maligned by some people. In my all my years of teaching experience I've found learning English is more than just about vocabulary, grammar, and idioms. It's about enjoying the process through a good relationship between teacher and student. It's also about learning about culture and new ways of thinking. Without these thing one cannot truly master a language. For some students learning is about using it abroad with foreigners. For others is just a hobby to enjoy. I think when English teachers learn this after many years they can learn to enjoy it much more and find it very fulfilling.
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papasmurfinjapan
And what, sir, or madam, may I ask is your "profession"? Obviously you hold it in higher esteem than that of mere designers, English teachers and insurance salesmen. We are honored to be among the likes of such an elite gaijin as yourself here on JT. We have much to learn, master.
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Ramzel
Yeah true, but that profession does have an 80% drop out rate, meaning that it is not a simple "working holiday" job. Also a lot of ex executives from major corporations work in that sector.
To the person that was saying that English teachers should make a union and agree not to go below 5000yen an hour - please tell me you were joking. At those rates you`re making more than some college/university professors if you work a meager 40 hours a week...
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Ramzel
Oh and to the actual profession of teaching English in Japan: I have no disrespect, but also at the same time no respect towards the profession, because as many people pointed out, a lot of people do it as a filler or because they cannot do anything else. However, it depends on their situation. If they are passionate and professional about their work, all the power to them. If they slack off and just wait for their paycheck, then they may as well work at the ward office equivalent back home. The guy who looks down on people who teach and do webdesign and insurance - I cannot identify with his opinions. Some people are career ambitious, others are not. Everyone has to work though. If you are happy with 150,000-400,000JPY a month, fine, teach English. If not, then get some commitment, aggressiveness and go out and do something. I am the type of person who doesn
t care about peoples life styles as long as they work for them. Personally I like to make a good living, so I would never consider teaching. About 7 years ago I had some free time and a friend asked me to take some of her classes for a week. I absolutely hated it, but I made 30,000JPY for 6 hours or so. I was pretty surprised at the wage as I had no experience and no idea what I was doing. Coming back to my previous comment, I think English teachers (especially who are non qualified, like I was for a few hours) are overpaid. Taking that wage would make me nearly 10MJPY a year (40 hrs a week) and having no experience in the field. Bottom line: Do as you please as long as it suits you, but I think that generally the English teaching "profession" is flawed in Japan as most teachers are not good at what they do. Having seen the results of "teaching" a lot of the people I have met could have saved a lot of money not taking lessons and simply watching something like "Friends" instead for free to gain the knowledge of English that they have.0
KaptainKichigai
How many teachers did you have growing up that were "good at what they do?". Or doctors? or car mechanics? or waiters? in my life, its always been 50-50. Win some-lose some. Some are good, some suck in all walks and at all education levels...even friendships. Thats life, not divided down to a single profession.
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idicemic
KaptainKichigai said it nicely.
geronimo2006 got it wrong. Teaching is a profession, not necessarily defined by association or else. Perhaps you should look up that word.
Ramzel, it does take commitment and aggressiveness to have your own school, or any business in Japan, especially if you're not Japanese.
And as someone else mentioned, teachers are worth their weight in gold, that is if you measure their weight by their preparation and effectiveness. For those of you that lack real teaching vision or ability, it is easy enough to overlook this and throw the baby out with the bathwater. Ironically, as more of these big business eikawa companies fail, the value of quality instruction will become stronger.
Going back to the posted question, it is a matter of being maligned by some, not all.
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Ramzel
Yes, that is what I was saying.
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idicemic
OK :-)
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idicemic
Hopefully more people will catch on to these issues and reflect seriously on what they are doing as teachers.
I hate to say that too many native speakers have gotten away with too much.
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sf2k
scotchegg & papasmurfinjapan
Rats I missed th recruitment haha. Yeah like anyone I did eikaiwa but thankfully a bit during the weekend. Did the flyer thing and that was "work". More lucrative was cash-only network administration, because I spoke Windows and had a smile. Also rewrote business English email templates. I actually billed for my services. I was actually paid on time and the exact amount.
I do have friends who are real teachers in Japan though, not the scammers. They have stayed over a decade now and made it a real career. It's the lower lifeforms that diminish their accomplishments. I didn't want to stay and end up that way, it's not my area. That was my choice, and a correct one.
Enjoy it, but you can't say you are proud to be an English teacher in mixed company. Sadly I would have though that the presence of gaijin would have improved racial relations in Japan, but really not much. Everyone is a black man from the 60s. And does nothing. Quite embarrasing I thought. You are accommodated, but that's all. Even this Janitorial Arts of Pride is a facade to yourself.
Not only is it maligned in Japan, it is next to useless outside of Japan. Outside, where people expect you to have real measureable skills.
Hence why insurance awaits the next returnee.
This also was the case for a friend of mine. I am not talking about things I've read. Only direct experiences.
Again, enjoy and have fun but don't delude yourself. That's a greater tragedy.
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KaptainKichigai
"not only is it maligned in Japan but it is next to useless outside of Japan." You are saying that ESL teaching is useless outside of Japan? I must be misunderstanding because that is just ridiculous, so I am sure thats not what you were saying.
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KaptainKichigai
btw, is teaching in English pre schools and kindergartens "maligned" as well? as opposed to "conversation schools"?
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sf2k
KaptainKichigai
certainly ESL is useful in the hands of a skilled teacher. In my hands though, (and thus the majority of the lay-part-time-replacement-he-looks-nice teachers out there) why? Why just give a job to me like I'm supposed to know anything?
So no this isn't the context. From the context of generalized non-skilled revolving door of human cargo returning home it is indeed a useless thing to have taught English if your country is awash in actually skilled teachers with credentials, plus a hiring freeze.
To be most successful, ESL requires skill in a second language. That language obviously then becomes Nihongo, and again limits your job abilities elsewhere. Thus it's a loop keeping you in Japan. Move around. Korea, China, Taiwan whatever. Keeps you fresh. That's a real professional in Asia with ESL skills.
Being unafraid in your profession means you're a professional. The kids were fun but it's not my gig, so a year tops and I was done. I can do math, go ahead and do the essay. The turnover rate does not beget a real industry, only a factory job can compare. (majority, not professionals)
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KaptainKichigai
They seemed like pretty straight forward questions. I dont need the epithet.
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DamoSuzuki
If I knew what maligned mean, I is answer the question, innit.
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idicemic
It would seem sf2k falls into the "some people" category. Glad you moved on; I feel sorry for the souls that wasted their hard-earned time and money on you.
Moving around Asia? I've met some that were indeed professional as well as unprofessional from this lot. They often brought fresh ideas, but also brought bad habits sometimes.
The question of teaching being maligned by some cannot be answered from this angle, but you made a good point about hiring freezes. Not sure if that's really the case, but recent failures at NOVA and GEOS have released more "free agents" looking for jobs.
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Busboy
I am an English teacher. I trained 3 years with an internationally recognized language school then went independent 2 decades ago. I still do classes daily and enjoy them. I have a paid off my ¥58,000,000 condo here and have a $545,000 portfolio as well as 2kg of physical bullion and several beer coupons in my dresser here... malign me.
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