Top heart doctors hesitant over new blood thinners

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  • 1

    VicMOsaka

    Why do they need these drugs when there is a natural blood thinner as in Natto or Nattokinase. My mother in law had bleeding on the brain twice, directly related to these dangerous blood thinners. My wife decided to become doctor and took her off the drugs and replaced them with nattokinase. Two more years and not a problem since.

    Finally told the doctor what we had done and he was not in disagreement at all. He said that the drug companies send all their drug brochures to them and claim that these drugs are the best so they believe it and prescribe them on their recommendation.

  • 1

    globalwatcher

    @VicMOsaka, what is nattokinase? I hate natto. That's only thing I cannot take among Japanese, but if it is good for blood thinner. I will do everything to like it. How often does she eat Natto? I appreciate your feedback on this. Thanks.

  • 1

    VicMOsaka

    Globalwatcher,

    Nattokinase is made from natto with the vitamin K2 removed so it will be compatable with any other blood thinners that people might be taking. You can buy it in capsule form and the best and cheapest place to procure it is from the USA. Most of the Nattokinase in the USA is also scourced from Japan and yet it is much cheaper from USA. The best place to purchase it from is iherb.com. iherb.com carries a huge range of supplements and vitamins and also has special freight deals to Japan with Yamato Transport . Look them up and if yo decide to order anything, just quote this code FIL284 if a first order and they will give you $5 off the order. We use " Doctor's Best " brand with 90 capsules and you take 2 a day. Capsules are small so easy to take for anyone.

  • -5

    wipeout

    So you've solved the problem of a life-threatening condition with an over-the-counter folk remedy. And now people who were on stroke medication can switch to this substance, remove themselves from medical supervision, and take your dosage advice, and it will be the appropriate dose for all of them.

    I never realized medicine was so easy.

  • 1

    globalwatcher

    @VicMOsaka, Thanks a million! I have just ordered a couple, they should be here by mid weekend. You sure are a life saver!! Are there anything else you recommend?

  • 1

    VicMOsaka

    wipeoutJul. 03, 2012 - 09:34PM JST So you've solved the problem of a life-threatening condition with an over-the-counter folk remedy.

    I wouldn't refer to it as a folk remedy. Do a search on it as there is a lot of information available on it. I am only relating the positive experience that changed our family through changing from some blood thinners like warfarin ( rat killer ) to a product that is well known amongst many doctors and researchers. Personally, I will not take dangerous blood thinners myself. I can only say that people who want an alternative to the drugs do so with caution and have doctor checks and supervision. At the same time, It is obviously important to make life style and food changes to combat high blood pressure etc. It is not my intention to prescribe any medicine, only to relate our own personal experience. By the way, my mother in law initially had a stroke and was put on blood thinners which resulted in 2 one month stays in hospital due to the bleeding on the brain.

  • 2

    VicMOsaka

    Globalwatcher,

    Hope that you can get positive benefits from the Nattokinase. Do a search over the iherb site as there are so many interesting items to view and many testimonials on all the products. I would especially check out the testimonials on the Nattokinase products. There is one other suppliment that I would recommend and that would have to be Vitamin D3 which we will never go without. Again check out the testimonials and make up your own mind.

  • 0

    globalwatcher

    @VicMOsaka, thank you for the info. Yes, I am taking D3 2000 mg/day. Plus, I have been taking these listed below"

    1) Low dose Baby Aspirin 81mg/day as my doc ordered.

    2)Niacin 500 mg/day for heart. as my doc ordered

    3)COQ 10 200 mg/day for heart

    4)Multivitamine -for senior

    5)New Zealand Bee Royal jelly 1000 mg/day

    6)New Zealand Bee Propolis 500 mg/day

    I have been doing these over 20 years and drinking soy milk./fresh orange/apple and oat meal with natural bran . Eat lots of fruits and salad. I used to do juicing, but stopped it as too much sugar.

  • -5

    wipeout

    I am only relating the positive experience that changed our family through changing from some blood thinners like warfarin ( rat killer ) to a product that is well known amongst many doctors and researchers.

    No, you asked the question "why do they need these drugs?", generalizing it to all patients who are prescribed with certain blood thinners. That very clearly implies that you think that they don't need them, the more so when you follow up with a cock-and-bull story about some wonder substance you can buy on the internet that does the same job only better.

    And in "relating your positive experience", you didn't (at the time) specify a condition that your family member was suffering from, and the person you recommended this folk remedy to didn't specify what condition they needed it for, yet you suggested a daily dose. The blind leading the blind, there.

    You also disregarded the possibility that people can be allergic to natto:

    http://ai.jsaweb.jp/fulltext/056030257/056030257_index.html

    because that doesn't matter, does it?

    One other thing: "natural" is not a goal in medicine, and nor should it be.

  • 1

    VicMOsaka

    Wipeout,

    Can't you read ? I wrote that my mother in law had bleeding on the brain twice after taking blood thinners prescribed by the doctor in the belief that it would prevent her from having another stroke. Allergic to Natto ? has anyone died from it ? Must be a lot of allergies in Japan as so many people eat the stuff. ( including me ) Nattokinase is no cock and bull story. It, like everything else is for sale on the internet, ( as though this is supposed to be a bad thing in your eyes) It is also sold in shops in Japan, USA and many other countries.

    I did not say or imply that people don't need blood thinners. What I am saying that there can be an alternative to drugs that will keep the arteries clear and dissolve blood clots which is proven in scientific studies.

    I don't know what you are going on about ? did you miss this in the article ? " But growing complaints of risks and deaths tied to the new crop of drugs have made some top U.S. cardiologists hesitant to prescribe them." That is why a lot of people take Nattokinase with good results. They don't want to croak before their time.

    You say--- " One other thing: "natural" is not a goal in medicine, and nor should it be. " You must have shares in some drug company.

    There are people in this world who know there are serious problems with most of the drugs on the market these days. Goodness sakes, you read about it in the news just about every day. ( and in this article )

  • -5

    wipeout

    Allergic to Natto ? has anyone died from it ?

    Now you see that's the difference between folk healing and legitimate medicine. They are required to address the issue of side effects. You, on the other hand, can laugh such things off, and carry on peddling your "cure" to anyone gullible enough to listen. Take two a day....

    Your wonder product is flogged as a diet supplement, along with all the other garbage, because it's nothing to the medical field. Three words: no proven efficacy.

  • 1

    VicMOsaka

    globalwatcher,

    I didn't see you mention any doctor prescribed blood thinners on your list. If as a senior you are able to avoid the drugs it has to be a good thing .It would probably be a good idea to check if the aspirin is compatable with the Nattokinase as both are for blood thinning or ant-clotting. Recently, there have been concerns in the medical community over the long term use of aspirin.

    Make sure to read all the iherb reviews and testimonials on Nattokinase. There are many very satisfied users. I personally eat Natto as I don't mind the taste. I am 66 years old, always taken suppliments and the only doctor's medicine I have taken has been the odd antibiotic.

  • 1

    VicMOsaka

    "wipeout,

    Now I am convinced. You are either a shareholder in a drug manufacturer or a medical doctor who takes kickbacks from their favourite drug maker.

    Instead of trying to convince people that Nattokinase or Natto which is proven to be of great benefit to people with circulatory problems etc., being garbage, why don't you check out people's testimonials from those who are using it. As an example, check reviews for Doctor's Best nattokinase on iherb.com as it has the highest reviews.

    Next, check out the drugmaker's warnings on their products. You still seem to be missing what is written in this article as follows---" But growing complaints of RISKS and DEATHS tied to the new crop of drugs have made some TOP U.S. cardiologists hesitant to prescribe them. Some are proposing a more rigorous monitoring regimen for when they are used." ( Caps mine )

  • -5

    wipeout

    Diet supplements (i.e. the legal category to which your wonder substance nattokinase belongs in the US) are covered by the Dietary Supplement Health and Education Act of 1994 (basically a weakening of the FDA's grasp in this area).

    And so, Vic, I am going to put this in very clear terms that even you should be capable of understanding.

    The act clearly states that such substances may not carry claims to "diagnose, mitigate, treat, cure, or prevent a specific disease or class of diseases".

    While the act does not apply apply to you or what you say (being as both you and I are just random nincompoops on the internet), you are unquestionably and explicitly claiming that nattokinase can be used in the treatment of specific diseases, and covering most if not all of the other legally forbidden bases too.

    The crap you are recommending is not a medicine, and that is clear under the US law. It is not permitted to be sold as a medicine, recommended as an alternative to a medicine, described as a medicine, or said to have the same effects as a medicine. The story you commented on is definitely discussing patients, doctors, and pharmaceuticals, not diet supplements.

    You are pushing a diet supplement in place of medicine, and yet you have no qualification and absolutely no idea what you are talking about. This was your question:

    "Why do they need these drugs when there is a natural blood thinner as in Natto or Nattokinase."

    This is a matter for a doctor to decide. If drugs are prescribed after a PCI procedure (basically a heart operation), how in Christ's name do you think it's for appropriate for you to suggest that they should be doing something else? What do you know about cardiac treatment? Or how to treat a patient with DVT? Or how to prescribe and monitor dose?

    Nothing.

  • 1

    VicMOsaka

    wipeout,

    At least I and many other non drug users live a healthy life with our vitamins and suppliments without your FDA approved killer drugs. Don't you take notice of the news and statistics on how many people die from their doctor approved drugs. America is a sick country and probably the biggest user of pharmacy drugs. It is you who does not know what they are talking about because you refuse to believe that medicine by way of drugs is harmful. Sure, there are medicines that are needed in some like thyroid problems and anti-biotics for infections etc. but now drug companies and USA government now want to put people on drugs just in case of some conceived future disease.

    I don't have anything against doctors and the more we have the better. But, when my doctor tells me that I have to take statins or blood thinning medicines etc., I will do my research and learn why I have a problem and work to fix the problem in a safer and more natural way. Doctors do good work but rely on the information given to them by the drug manufacturers. They don't know if it is really good or bad until they dish it out to their patients. As I stated before, Our doctor at the hospital, the surgeon who did the operations admitted as much.

    Sir, you are a liar as you keep accusing me of peddling medication and misleading people. Please JT, don't remove my post as wipeout has become personal. This person even ignores that the article is stating the dangers of current blood thinning drugs.

    Also, Nattokinase is not a diet supplement, it is a dietary supplement and Natto is a food. I never claimed Natto or Nattokinase was a medicine. All I have done is relate our own experience with using a product made from Natto and you have decided to attack me and make a big thing out of it.

    Why don't you read this article about blood thinning drugs again. You are obviously just not getting it.

    Quote --" warfarin is still one of the biggest causes of U.S. emergency room fatalities." Quote -- “The bad news is you can kill a patient as easily with the new drug "

    Wouldn't you like to see people being able to solve medical problems in a safer natural way ?

    This is my last answer to you as you are completely biased and under the influence of the FDA. who are in the process of banning supplements and vitamins which they also want to brand as drugs. There is no more point in arguing with you.

  • -4

    wipeout

    I never claimed Natto or Nattokinase was a medicine.

    Balls. You describe nattokinase as anticlotting, here: "It would probably be a good idea to check if the aspirin is compatable with the Nattokinase as both are for blood thinning or ant-clotting. " [sic]

    To manufacturers and companies trading in these supplements, the FDA forbids that claim concerning nattokinase, and sends warning letters to companies about it. This claim is specifically cited as a violation of the law:

    "Effectively helps to avoid blood clots that can frequently lead to heart attacks and strokes, the #1 killer in North America.”

    (Full letter here. http://www.fda.gov/ICECI/EnforcementActions/WarningLetters/2011/ucm268821.htm)

    The letter also states:

    "Furthermore, your “Heart Garlic Support Combo” and “Nattokinase Heart Attack & Stroke Prevention” products are offered for conditions that are not amenable to self-diagnosis and treatment by individuals who are not medical practitioners; therefore, adequate directions for use cannot be written so that a layperson can use these drugs safely for their intended uses..." [my emphasis, as that section describes exactly what you are doing].

    I see from your latest post that you don't like the FDA. Well that's fine. But they are still the regulatory body, and the law says what it says, and there's nothing you can do about that. Medications and dietary supplements are two distinct categories, and dietary supplements are permitted to be sold as long as they are sold as dietary supplements and not something else. The line has very clearly been drawn between them because all substances approved as medicines are tightly regulated and sold under a completely different understanding and after a completely different process of testing and approval. The fact that dietary supplement manufacturers and retailers continually try to erode the distinction is a demonstration of dishonesty, and in fact criminality. It's not because there is a grey area in the law.

    You are no retailer, so the law doesn't apply to you, but you are without question pushing the same line and making the same phony claims about nattonkinase. Not just making them, but continually making them, and insisting on your right to do it.

    You are promoting nattokinase as a medicine, exactly as the FDA has defined that behaviour in its warning letters.

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