Are Tokyo University students cleverer than other people?

Juggling and poker playing; oh the places you can go these days with a university degree!! How clever these students must be...

Just look at the grads running the country....into the ground. Maybe cleverer at lining their pockets plus the pockets of their cronies.

Did you know that, statistically, a huge percentage of people who end up going to Todai are born in either April or May?

kimuzukashiiiiiApr. 23, 2013 - 08:05AM JST Did you know that, statistically, a huge percentage of people who end up going to Todai are born in either April or May?

For those of you who are unfamiliar with the Japanese schooling system what kimuzukashiiii is pointing out is that students who are slightly older when they finish school have a better chance of getting into Todai. The reason for this is that the school year starts in April, thus a child who is born on, for example the 20th of April, will be almost a full year older than the classmates they're competing against.

This is a reasonably well-known phenomenon, and has various causes, ranging from the fact that being the oldest/biggest/more mature/etc. student in your class for your JHS and SHS years tends to instill a sense of confidence, plus of course the advantages of being older and therefore trusted more by teachers, etc.

There's no mystery here.

Getting into Todai is a filter system.

It selects those students who can absorb vast quantities of useless and disrelated information and regurgitate it verbatim on the exam paper.

It rejects those students who can't.

The majority of students who get into Todai haven't an ounce of original thought in their heads. Most of them are yes-men, pure and simple. This makes them ideal for government or big business positions where obstinacy and refusal to toe the line would be an obstacle. They also know how to sound intelligent and this helps to give credibility.

Todai itself doesn't DO anything.

It filters.

No more and no less.

The "cleverest" students in any country, during any time, are the ones who end up making the most money NOT CONNECTED IN ANY WAY to the government.

Musicians, authors, entrepreneurs, programmers, whatever.

Now, before you jump on me as a selfish, short sighted, greedy capitalist pig, those who make the most coin are the ones who are producing what is most demanded in a free market society.

In that respect, the cleverest are always paid well on the free market.

They don't become circus jugglers.

@gaijininfo

It doesn't occur to you that the "cleverest" folk might have worked out that there's more to life than raking in cash?

Are you seriously suggesting that a porn website entrepreneur is "cleverer" than a physician in a government hospital?

Not exactly a stellar roll call of alumni then.

I carry 20 in my brief case, so when I’m stopped at a red light I can read.

Lol! Indicative of the common sense level of Todai?

Are you seriously suggesting that a porn website entrepreneur is "cleverer" than a physician in a government hospital?

Yes, if he's making more money. People tend to immediately lose their objectivity when they hear the term "money" as if it's something evil, and it's only necessary "sometimes"

A physician working in a government hospital is getting paid a government salary. The government salary comes from taxes. Nobody pays taxes voluntarily. They only pay them because they will be punished if they don't. You can claim it's "for the greater good" until you are blue in the face, but if taxes suddenly became voluntary, people would stop paying that that wonderful government hospital would quickly dry up.

So, do you really think it's "clever" to take money from people via force, (taxes) and pay them to some doctor who couldn't get a job in the private sector?

BTW, just because you used another hypnotically vague word (hospital) that doesn't take away from the simple fact that the free market is ALWAYS better at providing goods to people, whether they be porn or open heart surgery, than the government.

No

if by "clever" you mean "has a high test score" than it's simple: yes. unlike some elite colleges in america that takes into consideration status (harvard), extracarricular activities (stanford), etc, todai students are the most clever in japan.

Tokyo university's reputation is due to its faculty, not its students. When you receive the lion's share of research funding it is easy to churn out journal papers and attract the best staff. Of course, this also means they will get some very good students too.

However, many bureaucrats and politicians are graduates of Tokyo university. You only have to look at the corruption and inertia in the government of this country to realise that these people are not "clever" at all, but a bunch of self-serving scoundrels. They are "clever" only in the sense that they realise where the power is and have worked to capture it for themselves.

The majority of students who get into Todai haven't an ounce of original thought in their heads. Most of them are yes-men, pure and simple. This makes them ideal for government or big business positions where obstinacy and refusal to toe the line would be an obstacle. They also know how to sound intelligent and this helps to give credibility. Todai itself doesn't DO anything.It filters.No more and no less.

Once again just goes to show that folks like to regurgitate things that other people have told them about university students in Japan without doing any research on their own.

While the image of University students in Japan is much like what is written here Todai is the exception to the rule and by far as well.

Todai is (arguably) ranked anywhere between 3rd (and generally accepted to be) ranked somewhere between 20th and 25th in the world and as the article states number one in Asia.

You don't get Nobel laureates from people " haven't an ounce of original thought in their heads" And they are not the exception either.

Once again Bertie, live and learn, live and learn.....

Todai is usually considered as the top research institution in Japan. In fact, the largest amount of investment has been spent for Todai in Grants in Aid for Scientific Research, which is the national grands for research institutions. Todai receives 40% more than the University with 2nd largest grants and 90% more than the University with 3rd largest grants.[32] This massive financial supports from the Japanese government directly affects Todai's research outcomes. According to Thomson Reuters, Todai is the best research university in Japan.[3] Its research excellence is especially distinctive in Physics(1st in Japan, 2nd in the world), Biology & Biochemistry (1st in Japan, 3rd in the world), Pharmacology & Toxicology (1st in Japan, 5th in the world), Materials Science (3rd in Japan, 19th in the world), Chemistry (2nd in Japan, 5th in the world), and Immunology (2nd in Japan, 20th in the world).[33] In another ranking, Nikkei Shimbun　on 2004/2/16 surveyed about the research standards in Engineering studies based on Thomson Reuters, Grants in Aid for Scientific Research and questionnaires to heads of 93 leading Japanese Research Centers, and Todai was placed 4th (research planning ability 3rd/informative ability of research outcome 10th/ability of business-academia collaboration 3rd) in this ranking.[34] Weekly Diamond also reported that Todai has the 3rd highest research standard in Japan in terms of research fundings per researchers in COE Program.[35] In the same article, it's also ranked 21st in terms of the quality of education by GP funds per student. Todai also has an outstanding research standard in Social Science & Humanities. Repec in Jan 2011 ranked Todai's Economic department as Japan's best economic research university.[36] And it is the only Japanese university within world top 100.[18] Todai has provided 9 presidents of Japanese Economic Association in its 42 year history, and it is the largest number.[37]

<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rankings_of_University_of_Tokyo

Are you seriously suggesting that a porn website entrepreneur is "cleverer" than a physician in a government hospital?

Yes, if he's making more money.

Well, all you've done is redefine the meaning of the word "clever" to mean "wealthy".

It's like saying "People who rake in the most cash are the best-looking, because I choose to define "beautiful" as earning tons of money.

A lot of us still don't fall for the free-market, greed is good propaganda. And a lot of us are all the happier for it.

Yubaru: thank you for the info! I wish this fluff piece would have shown how these clever students are putting their degrees to use in innovative ways. I am much more interested in seeing how young minds come about great ideas rather than how they do something completely unrelated but are considered great because they went to a name brand university.

For those of you who are unfamiliar with the Japanese schooling system what kimuzukashiiii is pointing out is that students who are slightly older when they finish school have a better chance of getting into Todai. The reason for this is that the school year starts in April, thus a child who is born on, for example the 20th of April, will be almost a full year older than the classmates they're competing against. This is a reasonably well-known phenomenon, and has various causes, ranging from the fact that being the oldest/biggest/more mature/etc. student in your class for your JHS and SHS years tends to instill a sense of confidence, plus of course the advantages of being older and therefore trusted more by teachers, etc. There's no mystery here."

Frungy indeed no mystery! Its just interesting to me.

In my native country (UK) I was the very youngest in my class, throughout primary, and secondary school, but I ended up going to one of the top 3 universities regardless.

I know that I was not the exception to the rule in this aspect, and while it is perhaps a common phenomenon in Japan, I wonder about elsewhere in the world? I doubt that, if you look at Harvard, the percentage of students born at the start of the academic year would be quite so high? Perhaps with the lack of critical thinking at Todai, and the sole focus of memorizing facts and churning them out like robots, those born earlier in the year have a clear advantage, which is very sad indeed.

Ah, Todai, the greatest university in Asia, but still not among the world's top-20.

A university is rated by many standards, but the greatest measure is employability upon graduation. Todai graduates have little trouble finding decent work after graduation (at least if they are men), but, compared to the top western universities, their opportunities are more limited. Like all other Japanese universities, the course work at Todai is about as challenging as flying a kite, and, like at other Japanese universities, Todai students spend much of their time traveling or participating in their social circle events. Todai is just the last part of the salaryman grooming system, much like any other Japanese univesity, but Todai students at least get the attention of larger companies.

The ulitimste measure of success is income. Income comes through hard work and innovation, neither of which are common in Japanese universities. The socialists will of course claim that this is nonsense, which further proves their ignorance. The quality of life most people enjoy is only partially of their own making, most owe their livelyhoods to those who have studied hard, worked hard, and taken personal risks to become successful, to those who have created the companies at which most people work. Unfortunately, most Japanese university students do not work or study hard, and few nationalitiea are more risk-averse than the Japanese, hence the the continuing decline of Japan.

Cleverer, in what context ?

You can so "No" all you like but the fact that it ranks 9th in Natural Sciences and Mathematics in the world, and the number of Nobel laureates it produces is not debatable.

http://www.shanghairanking.com/FieldSCI2012.html

and here's how they ranked universities

http://www.shanghairanking.com/ARWU-FIELD-Methodology-2012.html

Yubaru -

You don't get Nobel laureates from people "haven't an ounce of original thought in their heads" And they are not the exception either.

Of the 19 Nobel prizes awarded to Japanese citizens, four laureates graduated from Kyoto University (in science-related fields) and six graduated from Tokyo University (four in science, two in literature, one for peace).

As far as I could find out, the literature (Kawabata & Oe) and peace (Sato) did not teach at Todai. Of the science-related laureates, Negishi spent most of his research/teaching at Purdue; Nambu teaches at the University of Chicago and is an American citizen; Koshiba also taught at the the University of Chicago & Todai; Esaki did his research at Sony in Japan and IBM in the US.

While they graduated from Todai, their research for which they got the Nobel was done overseas. These four Todai graduates must have had more than an ounce of original thought but, unfortunately for Japan, it was allowed to bloom somewhere else.

there are various kinds of smart and i'm sure there are some todai students who are brilliant at everything and some that are only book smart and only got in cause they passed the testing criteria.

I found the article a bit confusing. Really, it only used a couple of examples. In the end did the article really prove anything?

NO, (trust me) but they have the best facility, instruments and most important funding. It makes hell difference.

Kinda like an American U, where the student sits in class and listens to tunes on his/her Iphone for four years and then sues the U in court for a degree claiming he/she was discriminated against because the Prof did not talk loud enough.

"It selects those students who can absorb vast quantities of useless and disrelated information and regurgitate it verbatim on the exam paper." ^ The typical response from someone whose been chewed up, spit out and butt-hurt by higher education.

most important funding. It makes hell difference

This definitely. During his two years as a post-grad at Todai, my son was amazed at how many public and private-sector institutions/groups/foundations were almost desperate to throw money at him and his colleagues to carry out research, attend overseas conferences, etc.

In my native country (UK) I was the very youngest in my class, throughout primary, and secondary school, but I ended up going to one of the top 3 universities regardless.

Hey, I could have written that! :-)

Let's consider the word "clever": typically dictionaries define it with other words like: adroit, skillful, mentally quick or nimble, resourceful, exhibiting ingenuity and inventiveness. Is this what we're talking about? Because none of that requires University education. Discussing Nietzsche or Schopenhauer isn't clever, in and of itself, and when was the last time you heard someone describe a Nobel laureate as clever?

Good poker players, that's cleverness; wringing cash out of internet rubes - yeah, that's pretty clever. But do you equate cleverness with what a respected physician, scientist, or top legal mind does? Not so much, because what they do is far more profound. A dog balancing a crisp on its nose; that's clever.

One would hope that in the course of earning a University degree, one also hones and harnesses innate or acquired cleverness in balance with knowledge and expertise to result in intelligence, but it don't always work out that way.

They have great networks and are looked up to by many other Japanese people, that helps them get ahead.

I always thought clever was not necessarily a good thing to be called. "good at achieving what you want, especially by using unusual or slightly dishonest methods" by Macmillan.

For the most part, Tokyo university selects students who are better than anyone else at playing the testing game that so many of Japan's youth.have to play. From amongst those, there are some exceptions to this group of exceptional people, because in addition to being test aces they are also good at other things as well. Exceptions are great, but far more important is the average mentality and ability set not only of those who made it into Tokyo, but of all those others who played the same game and didn't get into Tokyo.

Far too many of these people are at a loss when everything isn't handed to them on a plate for them to work on with a set answer already there that they are supposed to know or calculate and be graded correct for. They are not all like that by any means but iit is a serious problem for a nation that is in need of innovation - a problem that exists in Tokyo university just as it does elsewhere.

I think that one of the reasons for this problem is the idea that tests should be completely objective in order to be fair. Therefore there is avoidance of testing anything that can only be rated sujectively. Then many people who know that their future depends on their performance on these kinds of tests underrate and underdevelop skills and abilities of a kind that are not tested and come out with an unbalanced skill set.

While they graduated from Todai, their research for which they got the Nobel was done overseas.

Thank you for making my point. My comment was in reply to another posters insinuation that Todai students/graduates have no ability to think without being led around by their nose.

That is blatantly false.

Unfortunately Kokuritu Tokyo Daigaku had become the template of university here in Japan. They are good in memorizing and to derive an answer by applying information that had been previously learned. In a sense they are test smart.

The problem with Japanese education system is that it does not place emphasis on developing a logical thought pattern so they can envision a solution to a problem beyond an answer to a question. This is the challenge for Japan in a position where we are required to create something new and not merely replicate something that had been made already.

create something new and not merely replicate something that had been made already.

It goes to all levels.... like trying to convince a construction company to replace your concrete driveway with asphalt.

Yes, they are.

letsberealistic sums up my experience with my students/friends/acquaintances who have gone to Kyoto University (sorry, I don't know that many who have been to Todai). They are no dummies, but what really separates the people I know is not so much their intelligence, but their attitude. They are, for the most part, supremely confident in their abilities, to the point of being conceited. However it is this confidence in themselves that gives them the drive to succeed at what they do.

sangetsu03

the course work at Todai is about as challenging as flying a kite, and, like at other Japanese universities, Todai students spend much of their time traveling or participating in their social circle events.

So you studied there, did you? It's a shame if that's all you got out of university life.

SImple answer to the headline: No. They just work harder to get into university. But once they're in....

being of high intellegence will not guarantee wealth, some of the richest people in the world are far from being the smartest, good business sense and a good understanding of risk taking are far more important. or you can inherit wealth, richest woman in the world is Gina Rinehart 18.6billion while she has a good business mind she is far from super smart.

@papasmurf all the confindence in the world will not help you if you dont have good common sense and creative thinking skills, 20th century was built by the minds of creative thinkers which is why many nobel prices have been awarded to these people. why is it that Japan has won so few compared to its large population only 20!? Canda 20, Italy 20, Australia 13, Denmark 14 all have won nearly as many with much smaller populations. USA 338, UK 119, Germany 101 are the largest winners

which is why the saying goes about Japanese students, "taught to memorise not analyse"

Unfortunately Kokuritu Tokyo Daigaku had become the template of university here in Japan.

FYI in reality there are no longer any "kokuritsu" or national universities in Japan, it's a common misconception among many people. All the former national universities changed to "daigaki houjin" and all national universitieschanged to or were transformed into national university corporations.

It's been that way since around 2003 or 2004 I do believe. While the university still gets a huge portion of it's funding from the national government it is no longer a government university.

The majority of students who get into Todai haven't an ounce of original thought in their heads. Most of them are yes-men, pure and simple. This makes them ideal for government or big business positions where obstinacy and refusal to toe the line would be an obstacle. They also know how to sound intelligent and this helps to give credibility.

Bertiewooster: You may have a lot of evidence for this, but to me it sounds like off-the-shelf gaijin dogma. How many Todai graduates to you know?

Many of them, yes. But a good number are very good at memorizing information, but weaker in other aspects of 'intelligence'.

In my native country (UK) I was the very youngest in my class, throughout primary, and secondary school, but I ended up going to one of the top 3 universities regardless. I know that I was not the exception to the rule in this aspect, and while it is perhaps a common phenomenon in Japan, I wonder about elsewhere in the world? I doubt that, if you look at Harvard, the percentage of students born at the start of the academic year would be quite so high? Perhaps with the lack of critical thinking at Todai, and the sole focus of memorizing facts and churning them out like robots, those born earlier in the year have a clear advantage, which is very sad indeed.

I do like you little boast there, irrelevant to the topic - anyone of your intelligence would recognise this that of course young people can go to good universities. I also like your mention of "top 3". Had you been to Oxford or Cambridge you would have stated "Top 2" universities, of course.

But actually, the age thing is a phenomenum nearly everywehre, including the UK. The Institute for Fiscal Studies found that "children born in August were 20% less likely than their classmates born 11 months earlier. in September, to go to Russell Group universities – the top flight that includes Oxford and Cambridge. They were more likely to study vocational courses instead.". http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/datablog/2011/nov/01/birth-month-affects-results-well-being

This even affects sportsmen - professional footballers are more likely to be born in the autumn term. Very counter-intuitive, but it seems likely that the older promising sportsmen are more likely to be picked for the school team earlier and get noticed at a regional level and receive extra coaching than their less well developed peers.

This age bias will affect the Japanese educational system as much as anywhere else, so the cleverest children will not always get into the best universities on account of being younger when they sit key exams. Tokyo university students are still more likely to be cleverer than those at lesser universities.

I went to the 29th best university in Ireland.

wipeout,

As it is, the third university in the "top 3" in the UK would be a bit of a mystery to most of us. There's no single ranking system.

Thank you for the voice of sanity.

How on Earth can anyone rank universities?

Is there a "Top of the Pops" of institutes of higher learning?

＞the third university in the "top 3" in the UK would be a bit of a mystery to most of us.

The top three universities in most other countries would be a bit of a mystery to me, but I know what the top three in the UK are.

When I taught at a university entrance prep juku, what struck me about Todai's entrance exams was how straightforward, logical and strikingly similar they were to Western university entrance tests like the GRE or GMAT. Virtually all of the other schools' exams were logically incoherent and mainly asked students to regurgitate jumbled masses of useless and often unrelated information. The students who got into Todai (and Kyodai) were often the most creative, articulate and intelligent kids in class, real standouts who could take a step back from a problem and think it through for themselves... which unfortunately meant they were often considered socially awkward in the Japanese context. Sadly, their classmates who couldn't get into Todai were incapable of passing these exams, in some cases despite their obvious intelligence, because by the time they were 17 they were already better at the rote learning style. Ironic, eh?

wipeout

Utilizing the Nobel prize any kind of measurement for intelligence is completely meaningless since natural science had been ever more splinted into tinier compartments of expertise.

The science I studied(Physics) has no mutated considerably with larger and grander equipment that I only dreamed of only 25 years ago.

A lot of us still don't fall for the free-market, greed is good propaganda. And a lot of us are all the happier for it.

And society is worse off because of it. That's what anti-free market people fail to see. The ONLY way to get "rich" is by providing things that people want.

If you give up making money because you are "above it" then you're basically giving up trying to provide things that people want, and focusing on your own happiness.

That's pretty selfish.

“Todai students are really good at processing information,”

This, in the penultimate paragraph, sums up a lot of the students, I would bet. I like the sound of the juggler. He can think for himself, and was doing so since he was a kid.

Here's the difference between Japan's leading university and, say, Oxford or Cambridge: Ask a student "Why cars?" and see what kind of answer you get.

So, do you really think it's "clever" to take money from people via force, (taxes) and pay them to some doctor who couldn't get a job in the private sector?

(sigh) Free-market ideology strikes again, with the concomitant opinion that anyone who disagrees is a socialist, no doubt. Actually, I'm quite happy to pay tax to prevent the elderly and sick dying on the streets, and I'm quite happy to pay my taxes so that doctors can treat patients in a public hospital.

What a sick ideology it is that resents society so much.

The top three universities in most other countries would be a bit of a mystery to me, but I know what the top three in the UK are.

Please do not take it in the wrong way but I hope that the 3rd best university in the UK is the same for both you and kimuzukasiii ;-)

JaneM - I'm pretty sure it is. :-)

Is that the Tokyo University that came 30th in the world rankings?

I always prefer the Tokyo Inst. of Technology or TIT, myself.

You do not need to go to college to be considered "clever". (to begin with!) These cats have no idea. A clever guy will accomplish whatever without having to sit on his butt listening to a teacher for 5 years.

Is there a "Top of the Pops" of institutes of higher learning?

Kind of, except that it's based on a set of criteria, not record sales.

This year the third top university in the UK was Oxford. Top was Cambridge, and second was LSE. Of the top 30 unis, 5 were colleges of London University. Dunno why the London colleges are ranked separately, when the Oxbridge ones are ranked together.

http://www.thecompleteuniversityguide.co.uk/league-tables/rankings

I knew a girl who went to Todai. She was VERY smart. Graduated top of her economics class. Applied to the Bank of Japan and was immediately offered a position - but unlike her male graduating classmates, not on the management stream because, well, you know - babies n all that. She went off and did an MBA in Pennsylvania and was then snapped up by one of the worlds top consulting firms. When I met her - and this is poetry - she was on a bus from the airport. Sent over to Japan to consult on some important economic issues. The client? Bank of Japan!

This year the third top university in the UK was Oxford. Top was Cambridge, and second was LSE. Of the top 30 unis, 5 were colleges of London University. Dunno why the London colleges are ranked separately, when the Oxbridge ones are ranked together.

I realize this thread is becoming more concerned with naming Britain's 3rd best university, but there are a huge number of studies, but Imperial is normally considered the 3rd best. I have to say, I think the survey you cite is a bit dubious, giving too much weight to "employment prospects".

The Times Top 100 in the World puts Harvard at #1, Oxford at 4th, Tokyo at 8th, Imperial at 14th and LSE languishing at 25th.

How on Earth can anyone rank universities?

Quite easy actually.

lol 25th in the world is hardly 'languishing'. If all the London colleges were taken together, I wonder what their ranking would be? And where would Oxbridge be if all their colleges were ranked separately against other, whole universities? I think what it all boils down to is that there is no set-in-stone ranking; it all depends on what your criteria are and what you consider important. People scoffing that Tokyo isn't a good university because it's 'only' #8 worldwide aren't quite getting it, methinks.

Where is the individual innovation from top Japanese Universities? Japan has enough people who belong to groups. The parents of today’s children must not them to be trapped in the current system which is headed for failure. Japan needs young people who think as individuals and who are willing to change the system. It can not be done by consensus.

Cleverer? Is this article all about laughing? I go to a german University, which got no ranking, and also no incredible high tuition fees. This year, due to my grades, i was able to get a scholarship which allows me to do an exchange year at a top-notch japanese University. Not Todai, which is being announced to join my Universitys' Exchange programm in the next year, but another one, which already sent a lot of students to our place. And of course there are not dumb, but i would consider them rather normal, just like me! :)

I got top grades, but i wont ever be able to join a University like Todai on a normal basis. They are all way too expensive. I really cant understand people who are willing to pay for those Universities. Its just insane! Even if i could, i definitly wouldn't. Right now i also got top level classes, by only paying about 200$ a year of University Fees. Think about it!

@wtfjapan

all the confindence in the world will not help you if you dont have good common sense and creative thinking skills.

Thanks for stating the blatantly obvious. My point was from meeting people that go to top tier universities, it is not their intellect that stands out, but their confidence in themselves, at least compared to "normal" university students. Of course confidence alone is not enough to get you anywhere.

Still, I think it's funny reading all us gaijin complain about how uninnovative Japanese people are, when they are the same people that have pretty much been the world's leading innovators in everything from automobiles to home appliances for at least the past 30 years, with perhaps the exception of the iPod. I bet most of you drive Japanese cars, watch Japanese TVs, use Japanese videos and cameras etc. etc.

Innovation and creative thinking is not just measured in the number of Nobel laureates you know.

No. They aren't.

I have worked with many of them, and work with many now. They are mostly people who are really smart in one subject, but lack any real common sense.

A couple of the people I've known have been the weirdest, most annoying, socially inept people I have ever met.

I go to a german University, which got no ranking, and also no incredible high tuition fees.

Japanese Universities tuition costs are a drop in the bucket CHEAP compared to many if not most US Universities. Heck my son goes to a decent private University in the US and it costs OVER $50,000.00 (US) per year for tuition, room and board. That's roughly 5,000,000 yen. That is 75,282.06 DM.

i wont ever be able to join a University like Todai on a normal basis. They are all way too expensive.

Todai is a public university, the fees it charges are the same as the fees of any other Japanese public university and a lot cheaper than the fees charged by any private Japanese university or the top-level UK universities. Plus as I mentioned earlier, as a Todai student you find people literally throwing money at you in terms of scholarships, grants, etc. You even get to charge more for your time as a private tutor.

Still, I think it's funny reading all us gaijin complain about how uninnovative Japanese people are, when they are the same people that have pretty much been the world's leading innovators in everything from automobiles to home appliances for at least the past 30 years

Exactly, this baffles me as well. Perhaps, it is us that are insecure. After all the only reason people knock someone down is to build themselves up. Obviously some Japanese are incredibly innovative and imaginative as your post stated. Actually we shouldn't really have to make this comment as it is plainly obvious but it seems that some of us want to believe that Japanese people are mindless drones without an original thought in their heads. This kind of thinking is just insulting really. Plenty of clever people here and they aren't all gaijin.

I am sure that Todai graduates are on the whole far from stupid. What is wrong with them having to take take a test to get in that requires hard work? Societies reward what is important to them and in Japan's case it values hard work is one of the many things that is valued.

Sorry that last sentence was rather clumsy, wasn't it?

"clever" and "street smart" are 3 different things.

Whose survey and rankings are we talking about?

http://www.usnews.com/education/worlds-best-universities-rankings/top-400-universities-in-the-world http://www.timeshighereducation.co.uk/world-university-rankings/2012-13/world-ranking http://www.timeshighereducation.co.uk/world-university-rankings/2013/reputation-ranking http://www.topuniversities.com/university-rankings/world-university-rankings/2012 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Academic_Ranking_of_World_Universities http://www.leidenranking.com/ranking

Leiden ranking put Todai significantly behind China and Korea, behind Ewha Womans Univ of Korea.

What really matters is not where your university is ranked as a whole, but where the course you studied is ranked. Who cares is Todai is ranked number 1 in Biochemisty if you studied French literature?

Todai is a public university, the fees it charges are the same as the fees of any other Japanese public university and a lot cheaper than the fees charged by any private Japanese university

Actually in reality no it is not a public university. It is a "University Corporation" that receives public funding but then private universities as well receive public funds too.

Still, I think it's funny reading all us gaijin complain about how uninnovative Japanese people are, when they are the same people that have pretty much been the world's leading innovators in everything from automobiles to home appliances for at least the past 30 years

The reality is though that until recently the image of Japan was that it was very good at making other people's inventions better. Even many Japanese thought that way as well. They could take something from some other place and make it better but had a hard, if not impossible, time of creating something from scratch on their own.

The reality is though that until recently the image of Japan was that it was very good at making other people's inventions better.

That's what Apple has been doing for decades, and most people agree they are one of the most "innovative" companies in the world. You don't have to invent something from scratch to be innovative or original.

But just in case you doubt Japan's ability to invent great things, look at this and tell me I'm wrong.

http://www.weirdworm.com/10-bizarre-japanese-inventions/

Smurf.....You and pick and choose what you want to quote to make your point I understand that, but you missed the important part of what I was replying to....."for at least the past 30 years" and with that there is little argument.

@ Yubaru, sorry I don't really understand your point. Are you saying they haven't innovated because you believe they haven't invented anything from scratch?

Actually in reality no it is not a public university. It is a "University Corporation" that receives public funding but then private universities as well receive public funds too.

The fees are still half what the private unis charge. It was the supposed expense that dieLegende was concerned about.

I've been teaching critical thinking courses at Todai for about five years now. With a sample of about 150 Todai students to compare to about 600 or 700 students from other universities, I can unequivocally state that Todai Students are far more aggressive, determined and innovative than the average Japanese university student. Gakushuin students are not far behind. These students have personalities similar to the average westerner. Their willingness to be an individual in a crowd seems to be what enables them to excel to degrees far above their peers. It seems this personality type is what drives learning, which in turn leads to greater general intelligence.

lol 25th in the world is hardly 'languishing'.

Cleo, of course 25th is not 'languishing' - it was merely a rhetorical flourish.

The 3rd best university in the UK is probably Edinburgh or St Andrews.

@papa yes but Japan didnt build its economy on new ideas they took somebody elses idea and worked hard to make it better, optical discs, cars, motorcycles stereos, etc etc etc were not invented by Japanese, like I stated before very few of the 20th centuries new inventions were though of by japanese, and that is becasue Japanese arnt taught to think independantly, just follow the norm. Now China has come along and taken over what Japan had been doing only much cheaper.

@papa DVD/CD aka optical discs, cars, TVs, videos and cameras name me any home appliance that was actually invented by Japanese.

no. to answer the question

according to Cleo's link I went to the UK's 5th and 13th best uni. can sleep well...haha.

So actually it seems the answer to this question is define "clever" and define how you measure it.

All these bright Japanese students yet a scarcity of Nobel prizes???

I'll leave it to the gaijin intellectuals to save the world then....

kurisupisuApr. 24, 2013 - 11:32PM JST All these bright Japanese students yet a scarcity of Nobel prizes???

Come now, be fair. Japan is naturally out of the running for Nobel prizes in literature and similar categories since their main language isn't English, and historically they were recovering from WW2 for quite a while, so let's look at nobel prizes for science in the current millenium:

Shinya Yamanaka, Physiology or Medicine, 2012 Ei-ichi Negishi, Chemistry, 2010 Akira Suzuki, Chemistry, 2010 Osamu Shimomura, Chemistry, 2008 Makoto Kobayashi, Physics, 2008 Toshihide Maskawa, Physics, 2008 Yoichiro Nambu*, Physics, 2008 Masatoshi Koshiba, Physics, 2002 Koichi Tanaka, Chemistry, 2002 Ryōji Noyori, Chemistry, 2001 Hideki Shirakawa, Chemistry, 2000

11 nobel prizes for the hard sciences in the last 13 years. I exclude nobel prizes for literature, economics, peace and other similar categories since the judging criteria are far too subjective and as such it ends up as a political issue rather than one of merit.

@wtf

In 2011, Japan was granted the most patents in the world, with 238,323 patents granted. The USA came in second, with China a distant third. Among the US patent office's top 10 list of patent holding organisations, 6 are Japanese companies.

We will probably never know how many of those patent applicants went to Todai alumni, but I presume at least a few of them did. Todai, as an incorporated entity alone holds 436 international patents. For a look at the different patents held by Todai, I direct you to this page.

http://www.ducr.u-tokyo.ac.jp/jp/pp/

Hardly the work of mindless uncreative drones, wouldn't you agree?

After a bit more browsing the web, it seems Todai ranks 7th in the world for patent applications among academic institutions. Kyoto, Osaka and Tohoku are also (unsurprisingly) in the top 25. Cambridge is somewhere in the mid 30s, and Oxford doesn't even make the top 50.

http://www.wipo.int/pressroom/en/articles/2012/article_0001.html

So if new inventions, innovation, and creativeness are yardsticks by which we are going to judge Todai students, then empirical evidence in the way of granted patent applications shows they have something other students lack - maybe it is brains, more likely it is just funding... but let's just admit Tokyo University holds its own against the world's best, and those of us complaining about it are really only doing so because we are jealous that we weren't smart enough to go there.

It is strange how so many people here seem to know all about Todai and all the students. Even though you never went there or probably never even visited there. Talk about stereotypical thinking! And you think our education at Todai was bad? What doe that say about yours? We are a very diverse group.

Yes, yes they are. Do you know why? Because they have everyone fooled.

Students who enter to Tokyo Universities with top entrance scores are the children who have habit to study their one year's subjects in school before first semester begins.(spring since kindergarten time to enter 1st grade) They usually have excellent memory power. culculus is easiest. they just memorize textbooks of histoy, geography, science, literature, etc. , too. When teachers ask questions, they answer better than teachers know. At home, they use many reference books.

Are Tokyo University students cleverer than other people?

No... they're just better at memorizing some useless information for their bizarre entrance exams.

Are Tokyo University students cleverer than other people?,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, At least they are cleverer than people who never went school beyond HS. Smart enough that corporations hire them than HS only uneducated people. Clevere than peole who can't memorize simple instrucions. If you have relatives who went Tokyo U. observe them to find out.

If your children major Engineering related courses, be careful, You might have your TV and gadgets disassembled until tomorrow.

This is oneTodai Graduate of Todai who received Nobel Prize(Peace). Eisaku Sato, former priminister of Japan. He was a younger brother of Nobusuke Kishi who is a grandfather of current Prime Minister of Japan, Mr, Shinzo Abe. Mr. Kishi was also Todai graduate and received UN Peace Prize. Todai Graduates seem to be able to recognized internationally.

Todai alumnus usually get secured jobs. Sure video porno making is easy now and makers may get one time hit but do noit know their next game will hit or not. Their business is not steady and they usually wind up in lengthy prison life. Meanwhile Todai alumnus enjoy big salaries and have positions in commanding employees. If your grandchildren are brilliant, encourage them ti attend Today, Better than sending to Harvard or Yale.