How a Japanese airline would deal with 'nut rage'

The responsible thing: Order her 11 minutes of her time for each passenger and crew on that plane as they wish.

Yeah, but how would a Japanese airline deal with "nut rage" from one of their top executives? That isn't answered anywhere in this article.

I agree with Speed. This article completely misses the point. In fact, I am pretty sure no Japanese airline staff would physically restrain one of their top executives for throwing a fit on a plane. This article fails to address the essential issue at all.

“nattsu retaan”

Hilarious. But I think I like "nattsu kesu" better because of the double meaning.

"I am pretty sure no Japanese airline staff would physically restrain one of their top executives for throwing a fit on a plane".

My question is, would you do something if some douche canoe on your flight was causing a big problem and the cabin crew could not control him/her at that time?

I like to think I would help restraining someone without trying to be a tuff guy.

Yeah, already mentioned, the hysteric woman was their boss... and 11 minutes of delay is by no means a small inconvenience... the captain did have the power to either restrain her or have her arrested at the gates, none of these happened. This shows severe lack of training in this issue.. On the other hand, by openly escalating the issue the crew perhaps went into survival mode and avoided getting fired. We know the company already tried to cover up the trouble and they silenced the employees... having histeric bosses in the air is a cause of great stress, and it caused many deadly accidents, including the deadliest yet (Tenerife)

Yeah, the rules are easy to state when talking about a regular passenger. But when the person breaking the rules is your boss, it's a little harder to want to enforce them, when you also want to continue having a job.

This chick was an idiot though (of course that goes without saying). If she had a problem with the service, she should have made a list and dealt with it when she got back to the office. Dealing with it on the plane is not the right place, unless the staff was doing something that put passengers in danger. I have to wonder if she ever got any proper management training or not.

So what would a Japanese airline do? Funny the writer never answers the question they raise.

In Japan, I think this would not have dragged on as long as it has. If media caught wind of it, the executive would quickly hold a press conference announcing their "resignation" and a few deep bows. In the meantime, their family would receive anonymous threats.

Mr. Noidall: Please lighten up.

This is not about prejudice, but the reason why this story is far more likely in Korea than Japan has to do with the dominance of family controlled-chaebol/zaibatsu in the Korean economy. While most had "hero founders" now third and fourth generation family members are in the company hierarchy. Heather Cho went to one of the finest hotel management programs in the world, at Cornell, but it would appear she was just getting a stamp on her successor passport and not really absorbing the customer service ethos preached by the program.

Ultimately the more professional the management, the greater the likelihood the Korean chaebol will continue to adapt. Now in addition to too big to fail and too big to jail the chaebol next generations present the problem of too big to spank.

@kyushubill

So what would a Japanese airline do? Funny the writer never answers the question they raise.

they did..

Nikkan Gendai’s take on what occurred on the Korean Air flight is that had Cho thrown her fit aboard a Japanese carrier, she would have been physically restrained.

Basically would a Japanese executive do such a thing?

MHO is no since the executive would be fired before the plane touches the ground at the point of destination. The pilot and the cabin attendants would probably anticipate this and would not listen. There is also the pilot's union that would ram it up the executive's behind if he pressured the pilot to return being a classic case of power harassment.

When both side knows the protocol they follow procedure and not make a big scene.

Let's be honest, no flight crew in the world would reprimand and physically restrain their own boss in a situation like this, the difference being in some countries the staff would be the ones punished rather than the exec

Utter BS! If this happened in Japan or on a Japanese carrier the only difference would be that the person responsible would not face any charges -- or if 'worse came to worse' and they DID face charges, you'd see "suspended sentence" and business as usual. You can't seriously compare the reaction of South Korean flight crew and the company with the daughter of the owner of a company and what flight crew did with a regular, unruly economy class passenger on a JAL flight. Sorry. And as for their other 'rules' with unruly passenger, they are only exercised if the actions become extreme, and otherwise the crew are told to 'gaman' and are even reprimanded if the CUSTOMER causes problems. I have a number of female friends who are flight attendants, and they said while customers are generally better with Japanese carriers as costs are higher, they've been grabbed numerous times and were told they had to just keep smiling and try not to get close to the customer, etc. One quit because she was told to apologize to a customer who had groped her.

Yeah, Yeah, to deliver an argument you claim of a friends who happens to be in the industry.

God, internet is so convenient.

I expect Japanese steward to deeply bow and excuse himself off the plane and resign for not doing his job in the first class

@smith

I have a number of female friends who are flight attendants, and they said while customers are generally better with Japanese carriers as costs are higher, they've been grabbed numerous times and were told they had to just keep smiling and try not to get close to the customer, etc. One quit because she was told to apologize to a customer who had groped her.

This and that are different issues. Being briefly grabbed by the buttocks may be embarrassing to the attendant, but it does not really disturb the order on the plane. In this case, the order to gaman is understandable, and in any case you can't use one to prove the other.

Basically would a Japanese executive do such a thing?

MHO is no since the executive would be fired before the plane touches the ground at the point of destination. The pilot and the cabin attendants would probably anticipate this and would not listen.

I think both those are unlikely. The executive would not be fired and the staff likely would listen.

SamuraiBlue: "Yeah, Yeah, to deliver an argument you claim of a friends who happens to be in the industry."

Doesn't change the fact that the article is comparing apples and oranges. Saying "Korean companies don't restrain unruly passengers (in regards to THE DAUGHTER OF THE CEO), but with Japan airlines we do (an unknown, unruly passenger with no connection to the company)".

"God, internet is so convenient."

Without it you would not have this news -- or at least not an article that attempts to portray the actions of Japanese airlines as superior by giving completely unrelated examples (then criticize posters who give examples that ARE related to the industry and its practices).

Kazuaki: "This and that are different issues. Being briefly grabbed by the buttocks may be embarrassing to the attendant, but it does not really disturb the order on the plane. In this case, the order to gaman is understandable,"

Sorry, but sexual assault is not forgivable, and I think the fact that you fob off sexual assault as being forgivable quite telling of your comments. Second, since it is listed in the article above as one of the reasons for restraining a passenger: "Specifically, the above-mentioned article strictly forbids the following eight acts: engaging in reckless behavior when embarking or disembarking; smoking in a lavatory; interfering in the duties of flight attendants;" it is COMPLETELY reasonable to bring it up, and entirely comparable given that this list of rules is being used in the article to talk about conditions under which a Japanese carrier would not have given in to the customer.

"...and in any case you can't use one to prove the other."

Given the rules I just pasted in above, it CAN be used as proof, and I'm not the only one who knows this kind of thing happens. You just don't want to hear it because you KNOW it's fact.

Strangerland: "I think both those are unlikely. The executive would not be fired and the staff likely would listen."

Exactly!

Speed: Exactly. The issue here is bullying from sempai, and I am not at all sure that the same incident in Japan would have played out different. I certainly hope so though.

Also not mentioned is the fact that on both JAL and ANA you get your mixed nuts and rice crackers in a bag anyway - even in First!!!!

Probably if a Japanese executive from JAL or ANA took the same kind of conduct as the Ms. Cho did, the Japanese Airliner will have took a similar kind of action.... delaying and stuff...

But probably it wouldn't "return" to the gate but kind of stop there for a while, or something in that style.

But the probabilities that that type of conduct is taken by an Airliner Exec. are very low.... they probably will punish the flight attendant afterwards but not make a drama on the plane.

You had better watch out for LDP statesmen of that age. They used to behave like a king at overseas embassies.

I just don't see any Japanese executive doing such a thing. In Japan... Business 101 is the Customer Always comes First. Anything personal or any infractions by an employee would be discussed after the customer has been taken care of. In this case.... after the plane had landed in SK or at some point during the flight when it could have been discussed privately. I've seen some employees dressed down in front of a customer but only when the employee insulted or did not provide the proper service first. This is not just Japan... upper execs from many countries, in general, are level headed and would not think of doing such an arrogant and hot tempered thing.

I would expect that if it was a Japanese airline that the staff would apologize profusely to the exec, the pilot would make the decision to return to the gate, by which time the exec would voluntarily disembark. The flight would continue and late the issue would only briefly feature in the media - if at all. If it did, the exec would bow, apologize and step down. End of story.

A big deal is being made about the plane returning to the gate. Given it hadn't taken off, any board disruption is good cause for a return. Better to nip it in the butt on the ground than take off and try to sort it out in the air! The pilot's decision to return was the right one and was likely his own decision due the disruption on-board, not because he was told to do so by the angry exec. Though of course I could be wrong!

Ith Smithin Japan on this one.

My sister in law(Japanese) witnessed an inebriated (not totally drunk) man try a bit of slap-and-tickle with a flight attendant and then became aggro when he perceived that she was ignoring his drink requests. He spoke in a loud voice, basically putting down the woman. Such a commotion (not violent) was caused that the head steward intervened and the attendant profusely apologised for her shortcomings. My sister in law said everyone was disgusted with the man and his group were all very embarrassed. And the slob still got his drink.

So chalk up a victory to the obnoxious customer is always right vs common sense and decency - let alone laws & safety.

This was a JAL flight to Singapore.

Japanese are VERY different from Koreans, and most likely if any Japanese did behave like an idiot, most likely it would end up being a drunk YAKUZA, not your average Tanaka san or Nakamura san!

The question remains unanswered.

Cannot imagine such a thing happening on a Japanese airline because the Korean Air level of nepotism simply doesn't exist.

They need to add another rule to their written order: kids who repeatedly kick against the seat in front of them must be restrained and spend the rest of their flight in the cargo bay!

Mlodinow:

Cannot imagine such a thing happening on a Japanese airline because the Korean Air level of nepotism simply doesn't exist.

I guess you don't know anything about how Japanese politics works! Even China can't beat Japan when it comes to nepotism in politics.

Nikkan Gendai’s take on what occurred on the Korean Air flight is that had Cho thrown her fit aboard a Japanese carrier, she would have been physically restrained.

First of all, Cho isn't Japanese. Second of all, Cho's father doesn't own a Japanese airline. I have to agree with the first few posters - an article which claims to answer a question, but goes round in circles, never answering anything and basically saying how the Japanese wouldn't act like this or that. A feel-good-factor article for Japanese consumption.

Well, until now no Japanese airline executive has gone nuts over nuts served in a bag or other such thing on a plane, and, of course, never will after this incident on Korean Air.

Interfering with the normal operations of an aircraft is a very serious offence especially at such a busy airport. ATC are under enough pressure as is and delays like this and changes to schedules can lead to serious accidents. She should have been ordered off the aircraft and prosecuted accordingly.

@Mr. Noidall

It's quite shameful

It's called 'clickbait'

Sorry, but sexual assault is not forgivable, and I think the fact that you fob off sexual assault as being forgivable quite telling of your comments.

I did not say it is forgivable. However, I will say that a quick grab of the buttocks is really too minor to qualify as an assault. I'll grant you can probably some dictionary with a broad enough definition to include it, but this is really more harassment than an assault.

interfering in the duties of flight attendants

I guess you can exploit this one if you want to, but let's face it, this is a push. The rules are there to protect flight safety and order.

I am, for the record, completely willing to believe that the Japanese airline does instruct their staff to gaman in the case of a certain level of chikan type activity. In fact, I suspect even an American airline might. Yes, you can use one of these clauses to empower your staff, but overall the tradeoff is not worth it (confronting the customer is likely to make the disruption worse than gaman). Not just to the airline or its executives and stockholders, but even to flight safety and the interests of about 200-300 passengers on board.

The question was whether a Japanese airline captain will stand up to one of his own executives making a complete arse of himself. If you want to put a dollar in the "No" box, that's fine. In fact, I'll be sympathetic to any bet that says the rules get thrown out of the window when executives (of any nation) are involved. However, to try to pretend Japan or even only Asian countries are vulnerable to the "Boss is Right" attitude is racist, and to try and reinforce this claim by examples of discretion over minor violations is a non sequitur.

SmithinJapan - I also have stories from flight attendants from JAL and they said that serving in First Class was worse because of the superior attitude Japanese company executives have and how they take advantage of their status on a regular basis - and the attendants have to just grin and bear it. It happens in Japan and it's disgusting.

Kazuaki - sorry - but many will disagree with your definition of a "quick grab on the buttocks" as really too minor to be regarded as assault. To be honest - it really shows your own out of tune-ness. People have been trying to put the spotlight on such unwanted physical assault for decades only to have it palmed off as - well you know - it's nothing!

And your line of addressing it as harrassment instead of assault - well, I'll leave that to others to pass comment upon.

If your wife, daughter, mother, sister, friend was grabbed on the buttocks by a customer in the course of their duties - say as a sales assistant - then you'd believe it wasn't assault???

And yes, the behaviour discussed in the article can unfortunately be found world-wide, and to exploit it for personal ethnic discrimantory reasons is not to be applauded, however to comment that it may well happen on a more than rare basis in some countries is not in itself racist. Social constructs of cultural origin do exist and some are more prominent in certain countries than others.

What would be the chances do you think of for arguments sake, Holly Branson boarded a Virgin flight and acted like this, that the pilot would have turned the plane around and put off the said staff member?

Probably Buckleys! But we will never know, because anyone is capable of anything at any given moment - just that some are more capable of doing something at any given moment than others.

Pukey2 I guess you don't know anything about how Japanese politics works! Even China can't beat Japan when it comes to nepotism in politics.

um...this article is about an airline, not politics. I guess you (wrongly) still assume JAL is under Govt ownership? The large airlines in Japan are privately owned companies and are not known for nepotism, certainly in the case of ANA quite the opposite. Also, I have no idea why you brought China into it, the comparison is between Japan & Korea surely?

Kazuaki, I think your interpretation of what is not sexual assault is quite off. The penalty for harassment would likely be a verbal warning at the very most, whereas there should be much more dire consequences for "a quick grab of the buttocks". I would suggest that the letter of the Japanese law agrees because that would certainly constitute "chikan" on a train.

Well, if PM Abe were cabin crew, he would handle the situation by locking himself in a lavatory.

I remember a certain famous Japanese cabinet secretary who refused to stop smoking as the aircraft remained at the gate waiting to push back several years ago. The aircraft was significantly delayed until said gentleman allowed it to leave. No action taken. Japan is not qualified to comment on the actions of the Korean woman.

"Heather Cho (aka Cho Hyun-ah), 40-year-old daughter of Korean Air Chairman Cho Yang-ho and an executive in charge of the airline’s cabin service—(may be charged)—with multiple criminal charges, including violation of the aviation safety law, coercion and interference in the execution of duty."

Here's a charge Cho should be charged with, self deification.

High Princess Cho, at forty years of age, succeeded in illustrating the eternal child-like state of entitlement and class stratification only the rich can understand because everyone else is too stupid to participate in their world of constant pampering.

It must be terrible to have to put up with so many disappointing people who are simply so déclassé as to attempt to serve the almighty. Shame on Korean Air for subjecting Madame Cho to these horrific conditions. A great shame visits the Korean nation. How could they let these untouchables near dearest Heather? Let the world bow before these nuts.

Kazuaki: "However, to try to pretend Japan or even only Asian countries are vulnerable to the "Boss is Right" attitude is racist, and to try and reinforce this claim by examples of discretion over minor violations is a non sequitur."

I'm not trying to pretend only Asian countries allow this, though they are worse than their Western counterparts for the most part -- even in hiring practices would-be flight attendants have to give full body shot photos when applying; something not legal in many places because it is discriminatory. But the point is that article doesn't say this is an international problem, it says in Japan it would NOT be a problem when it most certainly would be, hence the "How A Japanese Airline would Deal with the Nut Rage...". THAT is the point!

And sorry, but groping a flight attendant, male or female, IS sexual assault in every definition of the word. It's not stretching. It may cause 'problems' if the flight attendant speaks up, but it should NEVER be tolerated any more than 'a quick pat on the buttocks', as you put it, on the train, and the whole 'gaman' thing and saying it is 'understandable' is indicative that not only would the same kind of thing be tolerated by airlines in Japan if it were a person with power, it is indicative of a sickness that prevails in society and encourages this kind of thing to happen. Again, I'm not saying it's limited to Japan, but I AM saying Japan is not an exception in how airlines deal with executives.

@smithinjapan, As I said, you are free to put your coins in that side of the pocket. However, if your best card to back it up is this kind of discretion, your cards just aren't very strong. The rules are there to protect the order and safety of the flight (and its hundreds of passengers). Call me a collectivist but it isn't there to protect a woman's butt even at the expense of the order and safety of the flight.

Or, Smith, will you be really happy with this scenario: You are in a business flight over the Pacific to an important meeting. In the middle of it, some flight attendant screams she's been buttgroped. The Captain takes a hard line to the issue, the agitated passenger resists, and eventually the plane has to be diverted so the passenger can be removed. Because of this delay, you don't make it to the meeting and you lose millions. Your company collapses due to this loss and dozens of your employees are unemployed. Are you really going to say it is all all-right, that it is OK you lost your millions because one woman's right to the sanctity of her butt has been defended? Now, granted, probably not every passenger has such a vital need to be ontime, but we are talking hundreds of them.

On a side-issue: I don't want to minimize or rationalize a buttgrope. On the other hand, call me a diehard masculinist but I object to the categorization inflation that goes on with all forms of sexual indiscretions. Used to be, "rape" meant Male (usually its Male) applied physical coercion to force Female to ground ... let's skip the rest. Now two people getting a bit drunk ... and then Female regrets it in the morning qualifies. A similar process is clearly going on with Sexual Assault.

I object to it not because I don't think they are problems, but that this inflation in effect cheapens the sacrifices of those who are victims of the uh, "Upper-Tier" of these offenses. If I was the victim of hard physical coercion with ten men, I don't think I want to have my experiences described with the same word as that women who got butt-tapped.

Your article didn't give the reasons it claimed it was going to in the headline. However, I'm pretty sure that if the daughter of a major shareholder and someone who had personally been an executive of a Japanese airline for around 15 years, did what this spoilt Korean brat did, she would probably be shamed in to resigning (for a couple of years before reinstatement) and no legal steps whatsoever would be taken. I salute the Koreans for at least admitting they have some selfish and revolting executives, and trying to do something about it.

Kazuaki, you are ignoring reality. In your example it is much more likely that the passenger will be restrained (if required) and instead of meeting who he expects upon arrival he will instead be met by a welcoming party of police. Planes are only diverted if there is a serious threat to the safety of the aircraft or other passengers.

Here are some examples for you:

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/buster/man-arrested-groping-flight-attendant-763092 http://gothamist.com/2011/06/10/man_who_groped_flight_attendant_my.php http://www.charlotteobserver.com/2012/04/19/3185055/man-accused-of-groping-flight.html#.VJ-k814Ak

And as to the rest of your example it's simply ridiculous & doesn't even deserve comment.

Japanese airline would deny it, claim that the passengers and the pilot asked for the plane to be turned back and say people who disagree are liars.

That sounds a straightforward way of serving a summons and giving an instant verdict! There is a Catche-22 question though, what if the miscreant happens to be a high government official or that of the airline itself or anyone related to them? Will the chief pilot stick to his guns and go ahead with the appropriate action which though should normally be the case? Interestingly, in an Indian TV serial entitled Airlines, the pilot just did that to deal with some miscreants one of whom claimed to be the son of the country's civil aviation minister. They not only misbehaved with the flight attendants and other passengers but also consumed alcohol in the flight against domestic flight regulations. The Captain first treated them courteously and even upgraded them from economy to business class. Having subdued them, he got back to the cockpit and told his co-pilot to send a message to the destination airport to get the security ready to arrest them. Subsequently, even against the orders of his superiors and the Minister himself, he insisted on their being tested for alcohol or they will not be granted bail by the police under any circumstances. Well, although this story is just a fiction such incidents are not uncommon in flights across the world. Air Passengers ought to bear in mind that just because they are flying they cannot demand from the flight attendants VIP treatment other than what is normally allowed and provided in such a scenario. The Korean Airline incident is indeed unfortunate and the Korean government is perfectly right to deal with the wrongdoer firmly though the passenger who happens to be the daughter of the president of Korean airlines has already relinquished position with the airlines!

Well, until now no Japanese airline executive has gone nuts over nuts served in a bag or other such thing on a plane, and, of course, never will after this incident on Korean Air.

Are you sure it hasn't happened? I'm not going to assume it hasn't. Anyway, I agree that this nationalistic stuff is really annoying and get's humanity nowhere except closer to its demise. I'm always ready to call articles that play into nationalistic chauvinism rubbish.

Ms. Cho's problems aren't over. I remember a news item about the Korean authorities preparing charges. Stay tuned, Nutso fans, more to come.

She should be charged within the law U.S. for endangering a plane, crew and passengers. By 'forcing' the pilot to return to the gate this nut case (tee-hee) could have caused delays or confusion to other planes leaving or arriving. We wouldn't want air traffic control to have to take their eye off their job because of some rich brat. This was JFK and a jumbo, not a Hyundai taxi told to go back to a driveway. Miss Macadamia has also gone off her nut (guffaw) before over the same snack and committed other violations (not stowing baggage).

Airlines are constantly graded on their timely gate departures and arrivals. For a pilot to return to the gate over a non-safety issue, there HAD to be something seriously wrong with that corporate culture!

JFK performs an intricate choreograph every day with planes slipping into gates only minutes after the previous plane leaves the gate. For a plane to pull away, stop, then return to the gate, that choreography becomes a 30-plane pile-up. It wasn't just the passengers on this flight that were impacted by this prima dona's actions. The following flight in that gate (at the least) was also impacted.

Japanese executives make notes of things, and would take care of it in the office. Privavtely no, but in front of a whole bunch of underlings.

This woman is very pretty and sexy. I think she could have charmed the flight attendant into doing anything she wished.