Messrs. Odoi, Yamashita, and Masugi's voices are heard, but they obviously don't speak for a majority of the Japanese American community.
How do you know. Anyone who speaks out against the reperations fanatics are immediately ostrocized. It's no different from the "Thought Police" of the 30's and 40's.
Looking at the internment camp issue through the lens of 20/20 history makes it look like a obviously racist and illegal act. But when your country is at war, and there is significant doubt you will survive (the U.S. was not nearly the superpower then that it is now), you do EVERYTHING you can think of to prevail. EVERYTHING. Even when you know that history will later judge you accordingly. The decision to intern Japanese americans was not done in the interest of civil liberties, or voter appreciation, or a bump in the polls but to WIN A WAR.
In order to win wars as big and important as WWII, you gotta do some dirty stuff.
Looking at the internment camp issue through the lens of 20/20 history makes it look like a obviously racist and illegal act. But when your country is at war...
Values are not values until they are tested. An America that flushes its values down the toilet through "obviously racist and illegal" acts indicates that its constitution, according to those who would betray it so easily, is no better than the paper its printed on.
You start excusing the illegal removal of the civil rights and liberties of innocent people, and a few decades later you might well justify torturing people.
One thing that most people don't realize about the Japanese-American internment issue, is that over half of them were children. And although, adults were given the option of receiving some monetary compensation for their internment; children were not; even though they had to go through the same hardships that the adults went through. There were even some cases where in the 10 concentration camps, that children were separated from their parents. Many of these children died, due to inadequate food and stress from living in these conditions.
Values are not values until they are tested. An America that flushes its values down the toilet through
The values that were tested, and prevailed, were those of self preservation. Some values are more important than others. That is why during a war the some of the values that are inherent in the constitution are temporarily superceded by the value of the country itself.
History is not all roses and rainbows. In order to survive, sometimes the survival of the many outweigh the rights of the few.
Some battles were purposely lost in Europe to not let the Nazis onto the fact that the allies had broken their codes. Innocents left to die, to secure a larger victory.
The values that were tested, and prevailed, were those of self preservation.
As it relates to tens of thousands of loyal Americans being deprived of their freedoms without due process, no rational excuse for "self-preservation" applies. If an event can be seen as wrong, it is just as wrong on the day it was committed as it is looking back at it.
It appears that what you are claiming is that the rights of human beings, as interpreted by one segment of Americans, are meaningless under any number of circumstances as seen by that segment. This is nothing less than a betrayal of the constitution and rule of law.
One of the common stories told by the Japanese Americans who experienced the relocation and internment was of their bewilderment when, in the camps, it came time to recite the pledge of allegience or learn about what the U.S. government claimed that it stood for. As it turns out, you are helping to justify the pledge and the ideals as lies.
Those are facts. Where did you read you information?
The fact is, that children DID die in the internment camps due to inadequate living conditions. As to my source, you should watch the documentary, "Children of the Camps" by PBS (The Public Broadcasting Service). There is even more information about this in Michi Nishiura Weglyn's highly-acclaimed book, "Years of Infamy". Her use of photos and detailed accounts of life in the internment camps are a good read. I highly recommend it.
To add, here is a link I found, with some photographs from an internment camp:
http://www.learningfromlyrics.org/Internment.html
"American citizens of Japanese origin were not even handled like aliens of the other enemy nationalities -- Germans and Italians -- on a selective basis, but as untouchables, a group who could not be trusted and had to be shut up only because they were of Japanese descent..."
~ Francis Biddle, Attorney General, Postwar memoirs
I'm glad the Japanese can remember this. It shows promise that maybe someday they will also remember why they got bombed, or what countries even participated in WW2, or the Rape of Nanking, or the Bataan Death March, or any of the other issues about WW2 history that have all but been erased from their school history text. This makes me ruminate on some famous words:
"Those who don't know history are destined to repeat it." - Edmund Burke
Yeah, I tried that. Let me connect the dots for you.
The whole thing is about Japan - this is news about Japanese-Americans and how they were treated during WW2. Since it's news about WW2 and Japan happened to be involved in WW2, the American government reaction to Japanese-Americans is part of that history. My comments are also about Japan, and its participation in WW2, and the history there.
Last I checked, this is a news site about Japan. The only reason this is even posted here is to get a reaction from people living in Japan or wishing to read about Japan.
this is news about ****Japanese**-Americans **and how they were treated during WW2.
Good point therealmusashi. But then you went and contradicted yourself by saying this:
I'm glad the **Japanese **can remember this.
Correction: I'm glad the Japanese-Americans can remember this. (since neither the Japanese nor the Americans could give a hoot about the Japanese-American ordeal). Believe me, "Japanese" and "Japanese-Americans" are quite different.
Trying to draw connections between what "Japanese-Americans" think, and what "Japanese" think about this issue (which by the way isn't even mentioned in this article) is like drawing a connection between "Ichiro getting 2000 hits and Japanese war crimes: "Ichiro has an ancestor who served in WWII, thus his ancestor has done some kind of war crime ... BOOM there you have a connection") Heck, I'm sure I could "connect the dots" between President Obama, and war crimes committed by Japan ... if I stretched it far enough.
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The_Berserker at 09:53 AM JST - 4th September
Messrs. Odoi, Yamashita, and Masugi's voices are heard, but they obviously don't speak for a majority of the Japanese American community.
How do you know. Anyone who speaks out against the reperations fanatics are immediately ostrocized. It's no different from the "Thought Police" of the 30's and 40's.
bamboohat at 08:57 AM JST - 5th September
Looking at the internment camp issue through the lens of 20/20 history makes it look like a obviously racist and illegal act. But when your country is at war, and there is significant doubt you will survive (the U.S. was not nearly the superpower then that it is now), you do EVERYTHING you can think of to prevail. EVERYTHING. Even when you know that history will later judge you accordingly. The decision to intern Japanese americans was not done in the interest of civil liberties, or voter appreciation, or a bump in the polls but to WIN A WAR.
In order to win wars as big and important as WWII, you gotta do some dirty stuff.
yabits at 10:48 AM JST - 5th September
Values are not values until they are tested. An America that flushes its values down the toilet through "obviously racist and illegal" acts indicates that its constitution, according to those who would betray it so easily, is no better than the paper its printed on.
You start excusing the illegal removal of the civil rights and liberties of innocent people, and a few decades later you might well justify torturing people.
seijichuudo9sha at 11:49 AM JST - 5th September
What drove FDR to his decision?Was it all the Wilson administration figures who served him?
Hotbox08 at 04:21 PM JST - 5th September
One thing that most people don't realize about the Japanese-American internment issue, is that over half of them were children. And although, adults were given the option of receiving some monetary compensation for their internment; children were not; even though they had to go through the same hardships that the adults went through. There were even some cases where in the 10 concentration camps, that children were separated from their parents. Many of these children died, due to inadequate food and stress from living in these conditions.
bamboohat at 10:53 PM JST - 5th September
The values that were tested, and prevailed, were those of self preservation. Some values are more important than others. That is why during a war the some of the values that are inherent in the constitution are temporarily superceded by the value of the country itself.
History is not all roses and rainbows. In order to survive, sometimes the survival of the many outweigh the rights of the few.
Some battles were purposely lost in Europe to not let the Nazis onto the fact that the allies had broken their codes. Innocents left to die, to secure a larger victory.
yabits at 11:24 PM JST - 5th September
As it relates to tens of thousands of loyal Americans being deprived of their freedoms without due process, no rational excuse for "self-preservation" applies. If an event can be seen as wrong, it is just as wrong on the day it was committed as it is looking back at it.
It appears that what you are claiming is that the rights of human beings, as interpreted by one segment of Americans, are meaningless under any number of circumstances as seen by that segment. This is nothing less than a betrayal of the constitution and rule of law.
One of the common stories told by the Japanese Americans who experienced the relocation and internment was of their bewilderment when, in the camps, it came time to recite the pledge of allegience or learn about what the U.S. government claimed that it stood for. As it turns out, you are helping to justify the pledge and the ideals as lies.
The_Berserker at 01:15 AM JST - 6th September
Many of these children died, due to inadequate food and stress from living in these conditions.
The Relocation Centers had the highest birth-rates and lowest death-rates of any wartime American community.
Unlike the the rest of America, the Relocation Centers were not subject to food rationing.
Those are facts. Where did you read you information?
The_Berserker at 01:16 AM JST - 6th September
History is not all roses and rainbows. In order to survive, sometimes the survival of the many outweigh the rights of the few.
I agree. A military combat zone is not regular civil society. The military calls the shots and the objective of the military is to win the war.
Hotbox08 at 10:28 AM JST - 6th September
The fact is, that children DID die in the internment camps due to inadequate living conditions. As to my source, you should watch the documentary, "Children of the Camps" by PBS (The Public Broadcasting Service). There is even more information about this in Michi Nishiura Weglyn's highly-acclaimed book, "Years of Infamy". Her use of photos and detailed accounts of life in the internment camps are a good read. I highly recommend it.
Hotbox08 at 10:34 AM JST - 6th September
To add, here is a link I found, with some photographs from an internment camp:
http://www.learningfromlyrics.org/Internment.html
"American citizens of Japanese origin were not even handled like aliens of the other enemy nationalities -- Germans and Italians -- on a selective basis, but as untouchables, a group who could not be trusted and had to be shut up only because they were of Japanese descent..."
~ Francis Biddle, Attorney General, Postwar memoirs
therealmusashi at 09:29 AM JST - 7th September
I'm glad the Japanese can remember this. It shows promise that maybe someday they will also remember why they got bombed, or what countries even participated in WW2, or the Rape of Nanking, or the Bataan Death March, or any of the other issues about WW2 history that have all but been erased from their school history text. This makes me ruminate on some famous words:
"Those who don't know history are destined to repeat it." - Edmund Burke
I certainly hope this is not in Japan's future.
OssanAmerica at 10:45 AM JST - 7th September
Why don't you try reading the article before you post something? It's about Americans of Japanese ancestry. Not Japan.
therealmusashi at 08:47 PM JST - 7th September
Yeah, I tried that. Let me connect the dots for you.
The whole thing is about Japan - this is news about Japanese-Americans and how they were treated during WW2. Since it's news about WW2 and Japan happened to be involved in WW2, the American government reaction to Japanese-Americans is part of that history. My comments are also about Japan, and its participation in WW2, and the history there.
Last I checked, this is a news site about Japan. The only reason this is even posted here is to get a reaction from people living in Japan or wishing to read about Japan.
Cheers.
Hotbox08 at 10:36 PM JST - 7th September
Good point therealmusashi. But then you went and contradicted yourself by saying this:
Correction: I'm glad the Japanese-Americans can remember this. (since neither the Japanese nor the Americans could give a hoot about the Japanese-American ordeal). Believe me, "Japanese" and "Japanese-Americans" are quite different.
Trying to draw connections between what "Japanese-Americans" think, and what "Japanese" think about this issue (which by the way isn't even mentioned in this article) is like drawing a connection between "Ichiro getting 2000 hits and Japanese war crimes: "Ichiro has an ancestor who served in WWII, thus his ancestor has done some kind of war crime ... BOOM there you have a connection") Heck, I'm sure I could "connect the dots" between President Obama, and war crimes committed by Japan ... if I stretched it far enough.