Shogi enjoying popularity among children as educational tool

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helloklitty at 12:57 PM JST - 8th September

So which is harder: chess or shogi? I never really cared, but every time I say I play chess, some Japanese person says, "Shogi's harder". (They also claim the Japanese CPA exam is harder, too. Come to think of it, the bar exam for lawyers in Japan is 'harder'. Bizarre. How's winning an Olympic gold medal - pretty hard, eh?)

Basically, anything non-TV is considered an educational "tool". The question is: How much is enough? I'd like to see me kids playing it for fun, but if one day someone says, hey, he should go live in Kobe and be a fulltime player instead of going to junior high school, I'd definitely draw the line. How much do the pros make anyway?
charlie3 at 01:26 PM JST - 8th September

As I write this 2 of our free school members are playing shogi behind me. they are conversing while they strategize and use their minds. As I see it, shogi is a lot more "social" than endless replays of dragonquest on their computers by themselves at home.

There is a group in Maine, I think it was, a whole free school based on chess and card games like Yugioh and Magic the Gathering.

Do I think these kids are the best socialized in their neighborhood? Probably not. But I imagine that being good at something will give them confidence, not to mention having something to do with their friends.

My free school in Joetsu, Niigata ("I CAN") supports kids who have enough gumption to get out of their bedrooms, but are not quite comfortable at school yet. We give them a low-pressure socializing structure, which DOES INCLUDE shogi, chess, card games, monopoly, cash flow and others (but no video games.)

From there we work up to bowling days, Karaoke, then camps and ski trips. I think shogi and other games can have educational and socializing value for these kids, in particular
dennis0bauer at 03:08 PM JST - 8th September

i guess shogi is more difficult as there are more posiblities and pieces returning to the board. I like Igo it looks very easy but it is very abstract.
serindipity at 04:37 PM JST - 8th September

And, how popular were the kids in the chess club at your high school? Weren't they the victims of countless wedgies, water bombings and bus beatings? This is a game for old people to stimulate their mind and pass the time. It's not a game for kids to waste their time.
soothsayer at 06:16 PM JST - 8th September

Like chess, shogi is essentally a cerebral, antisocial activity

Not the most cerebral comment I've ever read. At least you get to play with another person, which is much better than playing with yourself. Let's hope the kids keep it up! In fact, I can see a "hikaru no go" style anime and manga being churned out in the near future, and that'll attract even more kids to the game.
bamboohat at 09:53 PM JST - 8th September

exactly what skills does chess or shogi cultivate? have there ever been any long term studies linking early exposure to this and success in other fields?

Or does playing chess or shogi only prepare you for playing chess and shogi?
ExPrinceska at 10:53 PM JST - 8th September

I think shogi and chess develop the creative thinking of people and urge people to think of differente possible developments. I have always admired people who can think many moves ahead. Actually their brain becomes like a computer. Now some men can beat even a supercomputer who can analyze all the possible choices and choose the best move very quickly.
bamboohat at 06:28 AM JST - 9th September

ExPrinceska, I agree that's the stereotype, at least portrayed in the movies (That CIA guy in Charly Wilsson's war comes to mind)

But here's the question: Do otherwise normal people become smart by playing chess and shogi, or do people with an already natural tendency towards computer like smartness develop an interest in shogi and chess?

And what if somebody with a tendency for completely brilliant problem solving, who would otherwise find a cure for cancer, or a new type of world monetary system to feed the hungry, spends his whole life with other like minded geeks wasting their talent playing shogi and chess?

Would shogi and chess then be considered an "important educational tool"?
ExPrinceska at 09:20 AM JST - 9th September

bamboohat, I think that every person has a choice to choose what he or she does, if people want to be brilliant chessplayers only, let them be. If people are inclined for medical research, they will do it, so it is up to the person. But only a few people can become brilliant chessplayes, other people do it for fun and as a hobby and do not think it as a profession. So playing chess or shogi is one part of a person's education wich can teach a person strategy, patience, and concentration.
dennis0bauer at 03:10 PM JST - 9th September

bamboohat chess/shogi/igo are good for training the muscle between your ears. Not like some people who only train their remote control muscles.

By the way lots of the great scientist were also chessplayers.
tantantanuki at 04:32 PM JST - 9th September

In Canada we have something called the Chess and Math Association. Within recent years chess has been introduced to public school students as part of the 'Challenging Mathatics' effort. Students develop analytical skills and logical reasoning. I disagree with those who claim that chess (shogi too) is by nature an antisocial game.
Since shogi and chess are related games (they share a common ancestor) I believe similar benefits can be gained from playing shogi. Here is the link to chess and math:

http://chess-math.org/

Challenging Mathematics

"The "Challenging Mathematics" program is based on extensive research and field-testing. It focuses on problem-solving as a strategy for developing an understanding of mathematical concepts.

The goal of the series is to develop judgement and the ability to reason in children, to foster an ability to explain why and how when it comes to their solutions to problems and to develop their self-confidence as well as their own efficient strategies for solving problems.

The game of chess is a perfect fit with a program that has these types of objectives. Chess is problem-solving from start to finish. It forces you to look ahead and anticipate. Skills we all need to succeed in life.

Schools using the Challenging Math program are scoring far better in math than those using other programs approved by the Ministry of Education. The province of Quebec, where the program was first introduced, has the best math marks in Canada and Canada scores better than the U.S.A. on international mathematics exams. In the province of New Brunswick, Challenging Mathematics was introduced into all the French language elementary schools. Now, a number of years later, the French sector in New Brunswick is scoring much better in math than their English counterparts from the same province.

I do not want people to conclude from this that chess is the only reason for this. I believe it is the whole approach of the program and certainly the game of chess is part of that.

Chess is introduced in the second half of grade 2 (7 years old) within the Challenging Math program and youngsters continue learning the game right through to grade 6 (11 years old).

We will be going into more detail as this site is developed. If you want to purchase the "Challenging Mathematics" textbooks, you may do so through the Chess'n Math Association."
bamboohat at 10:18 PM JST - 9th September

Have there ever been ANY double blind studies done, with one group learning chess, and another group doing regular traditional school work and then charting their progress throught mathematics? If so, does it clearly show that playing chess has an observable positive impact on mathematics and problem solving skills, on ALL STUDENTS? If not, I don't see how you can claim that chess and shogi develop math and logic and problem solving skills in students that wouldn't already develop those same skills, in say, math and math problem solving. Personally, I see chess in school as the same as all the other subjects, not as an instructive tool, but as a sorting tool. Smart kids over here, dumb kids over there.

If your evidence is that many scientists played chess, is there any cause/effect relationship? or did they become great scientists for the same reason they played chess, namely they are really smart.

If your argument is that for many, chess and shogi is a good brain hobby, then why are hobbies being taught in school?
tantantanuki at 11:06 PM JST - 9th September

I certainly did not claim that the skills could not be developed through other means (math, math problem solving etc). I do think it is an alternative method of developing those skills. Some may find it to be a fun method. The goal is not to sort students according to skill levels. It is merely one method of aiding a child in his or her own journey and development. If there are other games or hobbies that can achieve the same goals and they fit the curriculum I think they are worth considering too.
Ah_so at 11:24 PM JST - 9th September

Shogi, chess and Go all develop the brain with regular players likely to demonstrate higher problem-solving and planning capabilities.
ExPrinceska at 12:00 AM JST - 10th September

I know some good chess players and most of them are very social and amiable people, so I do not think chess is an antisocial game. Of course I exclude the American world champion who died recently, after being arrested and held for several months in a Japanese prison. He was a genious.