AEDs to be installed in Tokaido, Sanyo Shinkansen trains

Tuesday 29th July, 05:52 AM JST

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14 Comments

JohnBecker at 07:43 AM JST - 29th July

AEDs are incredible lifesavers, no doubt about that. The fact that they can be made as simple and inexpensive as they are tells me that they should be made available in all public places - they should be (almost) as ubiquitous as fire extinguishers. Kudos to JR for putting them on trains. I hope they update the train maps on the undersides of the tray-tables to show their locations.
Hoolie at 08:04 AM JST - 29th July

You DO realise that using one of these devices when the heart is not actually stopped will put the patient into cardiac arrest, right?

Can you tell the difference between a weak pulse and no pulse in the excitement and stress of an urgent situation?

These devices are far too dangerous to be placed in untrained hands.
MeanRingo at 08:13 AM JST - 29th July

Yehaw... crank it up to ninety. And then it's my turn.

They are quite dangerous, but if you have someone trained well enough in their use, things should turn out just fine. And further to Hoolie's comments, can't two hands also cause someone's heart to go into arrest if CPR is not given properly? I think all people should be given some rudimentary first aid training anyways. I had it once, but learning Japanese has pushed it out of my noggin. Space is limited, but I'm up for a refresher course.
borscht at 08:42 AM JST - 29th July

can't two hands also cause someone's heart to go into arrest if CPR is not given properly?

Yes, but not nearly as easily as Taro slapping the AED paddles on the still pumping heart and blasting away.
USNinJapan2 at 08:46 AM JST - 29th July

Hoolie

Actually, you have it completely backwards. An AED is only effective on a person whose heart is NOT completely stopped but still has some electrical activitiy. If the person's heart is completely stopped then you first have to perform manual CPR on him/her before you can use an AED. These new AEDs are fully automated and voice-directed. Once you open one up it instructs you via voice and diagrams to place the pads in the correct spots. The AED then automatically checks the electrical status of the person's heart. If it's totally inactive then it will instruct you to perform manual CPR and tells you how step by step. If the AED detects the necessary electrical activity in the heart then it will automatically commence defibrillation. Modern AEDs are designed specifically to be used by people who have no medical or lifesaving training. In other words they are idiot-proof so even you and I can use them effectively...
borscht at 11:50 AM JST - 29th July

they are idiot-proof

Famous last words but if ever I'm in a situation wherein I need an AED boost, I hope it's true. However, I was choking like a mother in a restaurant here in beautiful Japan and how many people do you think rushed over to help? a) everyone b) half c) the restaurant staff d) no one.
Hughgarse at 01:28 PM JST - 29th July

a defibrillator in the hands of someone with no idea what they`re doing is about as useful as a handgun... achieves the same result.. death.
USNinJapan2 at 03:22 PM JST - 29th July

Hughgarse

You open the case. You place the contacts on the victim's body according to the diagram. You push the button (usually the only one). The defibrillator automatically diagnoses whether a charge is needed. If it detects a normal pulse it won't fire. If it detects no pulse at all it will instruct you to perform manual CPR first. Bottomline, an AED won't shock a victim if the victim doesn't need it or can be harmed by it. AED's aren't the same as the paddled defibrillators you find in an ER. You couldn't kill someone with one even if you wanted to. Like I posted earlier, modern AED's are idiot proof. Do you think AED's would be so widely distributed if they weren't? You say they're as useful/lethal as a handgun to a heart attack victim? Why don't you tell us how and why?
Hoolie at 03:35 PM JST - 29th July

Hoolie - Take a course at the local fire station. The AED itself does the monitoring to determine if pulse exists and whether the device needs to be used. 10 minutes is all it takes to learn it. Anyone can do it, trained or not, if they can follow the voice commands (of course in Japanese here.)

In other words they are idiot-proof so even you and I can use them effectively...

Used improperly, the AED can induce full cardiac arrest and/or cause third degree burns to the victim's chest.
USNinJapan2 at 03:54 PM JST - 29th July

Hoolie

Improperly? If the pads are placed incorrectly the AED won't fire. If the victim has regular cardiac activity the AED won't fire. Kind of hard to misuse these things I'd say.

So, if you suffered a heart attack and lost consciousness you'd prefer to wait for trained EMT's, however long it takes, than have bystanders use an AED on you?
borscht at 01:42 PM JST - 30th July

USNinJapan2 and Hoolie,

If the AED detects no pulse and instructs the person to perform CPR, can the person activate the AED anyway? Or, if the person performs CPR until the patient has a heart beat, does the AED automatically jolt the patient or does the person have to re-attach the contacts?
USNinJapan2 at 07:02 PM JST - 30th July

Like I said, they're basically idiot-proof. Bottomline, whatever the outcome of using the AED it's better than leaving the patient alone to either die or suffer brain damage/paralysis.