Anti-whaling group takes battle to U.S. Supreme Court

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  • 1

    LohmannBond

    Every nation has traditions which are out of step with the modern world. In Japan's case, whaling is one of those traditions, as is the dolphin hunt at Taiji. Your embassies around the world know what people think about these matters - whaling causes immeasurable harm to Japan's reputation as a modern nation. Your country is paying a high price for hanging on to its past.

  • 2

    ddpalmer

    The whale sanctuary was established in violation of the IWC's own regulations and a study by the IWC's Scientific Committee found the sanctuary was of no value. Then there is the fact that, as allowed by teh IWC's regulations, Japan objected to the sanctuary and thus are not bound by it.

    Then the moratorium doesn't have a loophole. The regulation under which Japan whales is an original part of the IWC's charter since 1946.

  • 3

    nedinjapan

    LohmannBond, I don't think it is much about whale meat being a 'cultural dish' for the Japanese. As Scott West says above, it is the 'bullying' culture that has bugged this issue. They want to prove to the world that they 'can' keep hunting the whales and enforce their 'right' to eat whales. It is not about 'logic' and 'argument' when the Japanese have a conflict, it is about who can 'intimidate' the other and win. They have entered such an 'obsessive' fight which makes no sense as another article here showed how much money the tax-payers are losing over this non-productive whale hunt.

  • 1

    Heda_Madness

    Who are they fighting? Australia and New Zealand are taking them to the courts and the other nations that oppose whaling do so through the IWC. It's only the SS who feel the need to fight them. To get violent. To break international law.

    I wonder what Robert Kennedy Snr would have thought about his son representing an organisation that uses violence to achieve their aims.

  • 1

    Eigen

    I think Sea Shep can really go out to prove that they're the better people if they can interrupt and prevent whale killing while still maintaining the 500 yard distance. They can show that you don't have to resort to extreme sea-tactics or acts of aggression and still accomplish your goal. I think if they can do that, they'd have a lot more backers behind them, including me!

  • -3

    Probie

    “It’s a mission that only they are capable of accomplishing and that is absolutely vital to the enforcement of international agreements on the high seas which otherwise go unenforced,” Kennedy told reporters.

    Hahaha! He's just trolling. The Japanese whaling, whichever way you look at it- for or against- is going on under an international agreement on the high seas.

    Kennedy called Japan’s government-supported Institute of Cetacean Research, which runs the whaling program and sued Sea Shepherd, “a pirate organization masquerading as a scientific research group.”

    Yeah? But they're doing in legally. Better than being a pirate organisation pandering to "greenies" only for the fat captains mediawhoring ego.

    Japan’s institute is “just like a bully who is finally challenged and runs to his mommy,” said Scott West, the director of intelligence and investigation for US Sea Shepherd.

    Wait wait wait

    Anti-whaling group takes battle to U.S. Supreme Court

    Er... why is it alright for the SS to do exactly the same? I guess there's not much "intelligence" being directed at the SS.

  • -6

    YuriOtani

    The US court acted out of its Jurisdiction as it is in Australian EEZ and the people involved are not even Americans. The American government thinks all Americans are their property and subject to US law even out of its Jurisdiction. Clue the Nazi did the same thing with all Germans were subject to das Leaders commands.

  • -1

    Christopher Smith

    without the SS - who else would get out there and fight for the whales?

  • 2

    cabadaje

    “It’s a mission that only they are capable of accomplishing...

    No, pretty much any ship, particularly US Navy ships, or even civilian Japanese ships, would be perfectly of not only matching the Sea Shepard's asinine accomplishments (not much of a challenge, really), but, I suspect, be capable of doing them much, much, better.

    Why don't they? Well:

    ...and that is absolutely vital to the enforcement of international agreements on the high seas which otherwise go unenforced,” Kennedy told reporters.

    Because everyone else understands that, like it or not, Japan is acting under international agreement. It is the Sea Shepard that is breaking the laws of the high seas.

    The International Whaling Commission has designated a whale sanctuary in the Southern Ocean.

    Yay. Now, can the IWC actually do something about the other half of the whole reason it was founded in the first place? You know, the half that it hasn't done crap about since it was set a moratorium when it was founded?

    Japan kills whales in the area through a loophole in a 1986 moratorium on commercial whaling that allows lethal research.

    They can call it a loophole all they want, but it doesn't make it one. A loophole is an ambiguity in the rules. When the rules clearly delineate under what circumstances something can be done, and when permits are issued specifically stating that the rules are being followed, it is rather petty to refer to it as a loophole.

    Kennedy called Japan’s government-supported Institute of Cetacean Research, which runs the whaling program and sued Sea Shepherd, “a pirate organization masquerading as a scientific research group.”

    "And that's why we demand the US government support the Sea Shepard, so that we can be a pirate organization masquerading as law enforcement officers!"

    Thank you, Mr. Kennedy, please sit down.

    In a filing to the Supreme Court on Friday, Sea Shepherd and Watson said that the lower court “acted rashly” and voiced concern over the order’s “extraordinarily long reach” to areas outside U.S. jurisdiction.

    Yeah, because, really, the issue has always been more about the whaling done by Japan right in US territorial waters.

    Where did you think they were going to refer to, Mr. Kennedy?

    The document said that the injunction marked “a potentially existential threat” to Sea Shepherd as more than 80% of its funding comes from donations, which “may slow to a trickle” without the anti-whaling campaign.

    Well then, don't base your business plan around doing things the US court system will find illegal.

    The Oregon-based group contended that it was observing the injunction, saying that the Brigitte Bardot sails under an Australian flag and is operated by Sea Shepherd’s Australian sister organization.

    Yes, I'm sure that will win you much sympathy with the court. Hopefully Mr. Kennedy wasn't the legal adviser on that one.

    Japan’s institute is “just like a bully who is finally challenged and runs to his mommy,” said Scott West, the director of intelligence and investigation for US Sea Shepherd.

    Hmm...Does that mean that Mr. West acknowledges that the Sea Shepard's past actions didn't actually constitute any sort of challenge to the whaling fleet?

    Let's get metaphorical:

    A boy takes to shooting rabbits with his .22. Shooting rabbits is permitted under a specific set of laws. Another boy objects to the rabbit killing. He begins following the first boy out to the field, and tries running in front of him every time he lines up a shot. On occasion, he chucks something at the boy. The hunting boy at first tries to ignore him, then tries to avoid him, and finally just gives him a smack and tells him to beat it. The moralist boy runs crying to his mom claiming he's been shot, although it was actually just a cut he gave himself. Meanwhile, the hunter goes to his parents, who go to the cops, who go to the kids mom, where it is learned the first boy wasn't actually shot, and where the cops tell both the mom and the boy that hunting rabbits is permissible under these specific rules.

    "But that's just a loophole!" Cries the moralist boy,

    "No, it is a specific article that delineates precisely under which conditions it will happen, what the disposal of the remains is to be, and how it is to be reported." Replies the cop,

    "But it's illegal!" Cries the moralist boy,

    "No, it was voted on by the entire county, under consultation with environmental experts" Replies the cop,

    "That field isn't in this county! I can do whatever I want there!" Cries the moralist boy,

    "Young man! The mother finally snaps, "You will not go that field, you will stop throwing things at that boy, as a matter of fact, I don't want you going anywhere near that boy! Is that clear?"

    "Fine!" Shouts the boy angrily, and turns to the other boy, "You are such a wimp, running to your mom for help!" He storms up to his room and phones one of the girls from school to and gets her to go tomorrow and bother the kid hunting rabbits in the field.

    Sound about right?

  • -3

    hkitagawa

    I think better to find a way to put DNA information of all the Animals in computer storage. Use all this money to develop the technology. Whales and many other animals will be extinct not because of whaling hunting, but global pollution, human population exponential increases, climate changes, changes inside the ocean food supply, etc.

  • -5

    Andre Hut

    The Japanese are operating in Australian Territorial Waters, in a whale sanctuary established by Australia, in defiance of a court order from the Australian Federal Court. Does that sound "legal" to you?

    Mass industrialized whaling was something started in 1945 by General MacArthur. Its not cultural at all.

    The Japanese took money intended for tsunami victims, and used it for supporting their whaling fleet. Do you think people are going to donate and help, the next time there is a disaster in Japan?

    The meat they take, loaded with Mercury, ends up in freezers by the ton, because very few Japanese even like it, then they use it to feed school children.

    Now they want to tax the Japanese people even more to help keep this nonsense going. Does this sound smart to you? Really?

  • 5

    nigelboy

    The Japanese are operating in Australian Territorial Waters, in a whale sanctuary established by Australia, in defiance of a court order from the Australian Federal Court. Does that sound "legal" to you?

    ATS, which Australia is a signatory, prohibits them from making such "new claims" such as a concept of "territorial waters".

    The Japanese took money intended for tsunami victims, and used it for supporting their whaling fleet. Do you think people are going to donate and help, the next time there is a disaster in Japan?

    No they did not. Japanese government have no control of the private donations. Stop relying on SS propaganda.

    The meat they take, loaded with Mercury, ends up in freezers by the ton, because very few Japanese even like it, then they use it to feed school children.

    The ones caught in the Antarctic have very little mercury.

    Now they want to tax the Japanese people even more to help keep this nonsense going. Does this sound smart to you? Really?

    That's for the people of Japan to decide. Not some outsider who have very little knowledge of the subject.

  • 2

    Duane Da'Vein

    I think it's time that sea going ships exercise their right to defend themselves from pirates and start sinking attacking vessels.

  • 3

    Kent Mcgraw

    As far as the SS, they are a criminal organization. Their only concern here is that they may lose 80% of their donations so they will not be able to harass people and get paid big dollars to do it. They would not even be doing it if they were not being paid to do it. Follow the money and you will see it is all about getting donations.

  • 1

    Yubaru

    SS can appeal all it wants to. However if the Supreme's first off even decide to hear the appeal, and choose to make a ruling on it, and in the off chance that they agree with SS they would be advocating terrorism and that is something I highly doubt they would do.

    Publicity stunt

  • 2

    letsberealistic

    It seems those who are opposed to SS, are opposed for the sake of being opposed to something radical - perhaps a conservative mind-set? Critics of SS on this board say nothing about whaling's cost to the taxpayer for widely accepted false science.

    I teach English to Japanese Fisheries Ministry members directly involved in the whaling issue and they all (3 members) agreed they disliked SS, but at the same time believed the whaling was not for science but the Japanese fear of losing face and pride.

  • 1

    danako

    Tell me RFK Jr., are there any other fugitives that the Supreme Court should be supporting?

  • 3

    Heda_Madness

    It seems those who are opposed to SS, are opposed for the sake of being opposed to something radical - perhaps a conservative mind-set? Critics of SS on this board say nothing about whaling's cost to the taxpayer for widely accepted false science.

    No, I take opposition to the SS for throwing glass bottles at people's heads. Something that Greenpeace also take issue with. It's possible to be anti-whaling and anti-SS. Though, I personally am pro- whaling within reason. But it's typical of an SS supporter to make such wild and unsubstantiated claims. Something that their fugitive leader has advised his supporters to do.

  • 1

    Jason Stiles

    EigenFeb. 12, 2013 - 08:59AM JST

    I think Sea Shep can really go out to prove that they're the better people if they can interrupt and prevent whale killing while still maintaining the 500 yard distance. They can show that you don't have to resort to extreme sea-tactics or acts of aggression and still accomplish your goal. I think if they can do that, they'd have a lot more backers behind them, including me!

    hmmm 500 yard you say? Simmons! Yes captian? Ready the 105 Howitzers, I'm feeling lucky today. Yes Sir!

    Sorry I been playing waaay too much Company of Heros, but in all seriousness it is possible for them to do so in a non-aggressional act.

  • 2

    T-Mack

    The Inuit people are leaving their sacred land's and moving south to find food, whales, and seal's and the such, are getting harder to find, over fishing , and over whaling is hurting people, and polar bear's and other wildlife who most, know nothing about. I for one do not support SS or their activities. I also do not support Whaling, that is not used for food. Eskiomes and Inuit have no one to turn to survive...We all must do more to help each other, than rush in and "grab all I can have" type of attitudes. " No more commercial whaling" Save face by helping the Inuit people...Sea Sheppard should be Impounded and Docked at nearest port and their crew sent home or to jail. Japan should hunt whale for food only, with out the risk of the SS and their crew's tactics to wilfully put people lives in needless harm's way.

  • 5

    cabadaje

    The Japanese are operating in Australian Territorial Waters, in a whale sanctuary established by Australia, in defiance of a court order from the Australian Federal Court. Does that sound "legal" to you?

    Oh? Has a decision regarding the legality of Australia's claim vs The Antarctic Treaty been handed down? Then surely the Australian Coast Guard, or perhaps even the Royal Australian Navy, is on-site, preventing major poaching in its EEZ, or at the very least, illegal whaling...unless, of course, it is neither poaching, nor illegal under international law as of yet.

    The meat they take, loaded with Mercury, ends up in freezers by the ton, because very few Japanese even like it, then they use it to feed school children.

    So stick to Minke whales and don't eat the organs. Tuna fish in the US was harassed about the mercury levels, but no one demanded the tuna industry roll over and die.

    I find it amusing that in no whaling thread will you find a pro-whaling (or even a neutral position) comment that hasn't been marked into the negatives.

  • 5

    cabadaje

    Critics of SS on this board say nothing about whaling's cost to the taxpayer for widely accepted false science.

    Kind of like how proponents don't say anything about how strangling an industry tends to result in loss of income, and how for all the claims of false science, there don't seem to be any articles refuting the scientific papers?

  • -3

    zichi

    The ex Japanese ship bought by Sea Shepherd, refitted and renamed the Sam Simon has located the whaling fleet supply ship. Its flag ship, the Steve Irwin, with ex captain Watson on board, is steaming at full speed to intercept the supply ship and will try to prevent it from refuelling the whalers, which would send the whaling fleet home early.

    No court action is going to prevent Sea Shepherd from taking whatever action it thinks is needed to stop the unnecessary slaughter of whales.

  • -4

    Yubaru

    I teach English to Japanese Fisheries Ministry members directly involved in the whaling issue and they all (3 members) agreed they disliked SS, but at the same time believed the whaling was not for science but the Japanese fear of losing face and pride.

    Maybe you can teach them that they would gain more face, pride and the respect of the international community if they stopped the whaling vs continuing to lose it by thumbing their noses to the reality that whaling is unecessary and their isnt a whole hell of a lot of pride in whaling because few if anyone really respects what they do in the first place.

  • -2

    letsberealistic

    Kind of like how proponents don't say anything about how strangling an industry tends to result in loss of income, and how for all the claims of false science, there don't seem to be any articles refuting the scientific papers?

    Suspect trolling here, but just to those who are out-of-touch with Japanese whaling issues -

    There are indeed scientific reports on Japan's so-called research - have you bothered to search? Consider this, when do scientists ever kill a wild animal in large numbers for research?

    And to all those who believe there is a whaling industry in Japan, please read more, there are stock-plies of whale meat in the hundreds of tonnes sitting in cold-storage in Ibaraki.

  • -5

    letsberealistic

    Maybe you can teach them that they would gain more face, pride and the respect of the international community if they stopped the whaling vs continuing to lose it by thumbing their noses to the reality that whaling is unnecessary and their isn't a whole hell of a lot of pride in whaling because few if anyone really respects what they do in the first place.

    I try to avoid dictating my political views to my students - with all respect, most Japanese tend to lack the ability and emotional maturity to debate rationally without getting very emotional - trust me have tried before.

    Ask most Japanese if they can put their pride and face-losing fears aside if they would support whaling continuation 99% would say NO.

  • 1

    ramses68

    Always liked the band "The Dead Kennedys". So SS managed to hire a lawyer with a a name. Easy to do when you're sucking at the teat of Hollywood elite, who have no idea about real issues. While I am Pro sustainable whaling, I can't help but think that SS is causing more damage than anything else. If it weren't for Santa Claus and his elves spending all that cash on boats and cruises, they could be EDUCATING the populace of Japan about mercury poisoning, taxpayer funds being used to support a dying industry, or that whales are akin to unicorns and should be preserved before they die out... When was the last time you saw a real live unicorn? That's right! Never! Because they were so darn tasty, we killed and ate all of them. Bones, hides, horns and all... By confronting the nation and attempting to force their ideals down the throats of the Japanese, SS is just continually making a bad situation worse. Quit buying boats, weed, and lawyers, and put all those Hollywood dollars to work on something more effective, and less offensive.

  • -9

    letsberealistic

    @ramses68

    Awesome idea for SS to spend the money on something more practical, but how do you suppose they can influence Japanese education - good luck with that one. Any more realistic ideas? I'm sure if there were other routes SS would be onto it.

    One thing many people mistake about SS - they are not violent war-mongers or terrorists - just a bunch of well-meaning, albeit naive, animal lovers. Don't believe me? Watch Whale Wars and see the doe-eyed truth of it all.

  • 1

    Kwaabish

    Best if the Japanese coast guard ships escort the fleet and forcibly repel any pirate action. Perhaps with a couple rounds of 20mm...

  • 2

    Heda_Madness

    One thing many people mistake about SS - they are not violent]

    Do you think that throwing glass bottles is not violent?

    This is what Greenpeace have to say

    In addition to being morally wrong, we believe the use of violence in protection of whales to be a tactical error. If there's one way to harden Japanese public opinion and ensure whaling continues, it's to use violent tactics against their fleet. It's wrong because it puts human lives at risk*

    http://www.greenpeace.org/usa/en/news-and-blogs/news/paul-watson-sea-shepherd-and/

    So yes, let's be realistic. Because throwing bottles, and other tactics of the Sea Shepherd IS violent.

  • 1

    cabadaje

    There are indeed scientific reports on Japan's so-called research - have you bothered to search? Consider this, when do scientists ever kill a wild animal in large numbers for research?

    When an animal can't be observed for the majority of its life otherwise.

  • 1

    Probie

    Best if the Japanese coast guard ships escort the fleet and forcibly repel any pirate action. Perhaps with a couple rounds of 20mm...

    I'd rather have them swiss-cheese them with 50cals.

    I try to avoid dictating my political views to my students - with all respect, most Japanese tend to lack the ability and emotional maturity to debate rationally without getting very emotional - trust me have tried before.

    And the SS fanatics do have "the ability and emotional maturity to debate rationally without getting very emotional"???

    Also, nice job of painting a whole country of people with the same brush, sir. Well done, well done.

  • -5

    letsberealistic

    So yes, let's be realistic. Because throwing bottles, and other tactics of the Sea Shepherd IS violent.

    Little bottles directed at the ship, not people. Green peace have political issues with SS so that comment seems a bit extreme.

    Again, watch the show and be enlightened.

  • 3

    Probie

    Little bottles directed at the ship, not people. Green peace have political issues with SS so that comment seems a bit extreme.

    They throw them at people too. So, give me the address of where you work and I'll come by and throw glass bottles at you while you're trying to do your job. Also, I'll bump into you; and run in front of you with a rope and try to trip you up and break your legs as you walk. If you complain, or call the police to get the crazy guy away from you, you are being hypocritical.

  • 3

    Heda_Madness

    Little bottles directed at the ship, not people

    Can you tell me of any court in any country that would decide that throwing bottles in the general vicinity of people isn't violent? Never mind it's in massively roilling seas where you have no control. And ignoring the fact that the disposal of glass in the Antarctic Ocean is in breach of the treaty.

    I wouldn't even call them environmentalists. Attention Seekers? Absolutely but they give environmentalists a very bad name.

  • -1

    Droll Quarry

    Find a lawyer, pay him enough money and he will say anything. The higher the profile the case is directly proportionate to the amount of enthusiasm the lawyer will have in pursuing it. If the case gets both the client and the lawyer media time, it will take on the airs of a holy quest. Nail that gold piece to the main mast!

  • 3

    OssanAmerica

    SSCS have reached a level of utter desperation. This attempt to overturn an injunctive order through the US Supreme Court is destined to be dismissed as it has no bearing on constitutional issues. RF Kennedy, Esq needs to consider the irrationality of his arguments in asking the United States to support an organization that the FBI has categorized as eco-terrorists. SSCS's degree of desperation shows elsewhere as they just filed a countersuit in Portland Oregon against the Japanese Whalers for the loss of the M/V Ady Gil. This one is going to be funny when the Whalers introduce testimony from Mr Ady Gil (who is suing Sea Sheperd), Peter Bethune (who is suing Sea Sheperd) and the Australian Maritme Safety Authority and Maritime New Zealand, both of whom concluded no fault to any one party in their respective investigations. Note that Peter Bethune has stated in his court papers that the "sinking" of the Ady Gil was ordered by Paul Wason, even though the vessel was repairable. Seriously, SSCS's legal manouvers are laughable antics, just like their "war" on the whalers. I'll bet their attornies are struggling to keep a straight face until they can go deposit their checks for legal fees. Personally, I would also like to see the ICR file an action in a civil court demanding 40% of the income earned by SSCS for every year that SSCS has conducted campaign against them since without one party to do the "whaling" there can not be another to do "anti-whaling". SSCS has submitted; "The document said that the injunction marked “a potentially existential threat” to Sea Shepherd as more than 80% of its funding comes from donations, which “may slow to a trickle” without the anti-whaling campaign."

  • 1

    SamuraiBlue

    It was "Game Over" for SS the minute the injunction for the activists to stay at least 500 yards away from the whaling vessels was ordered since animal channel will have to pull the plug on "Whale War" with either showing the group 500 yards away chanting anti-whale demands OR show the group infringing the injunction dragging the directors and producers of the program as co-conspirators.

  • -1

    Nessie

    • Throw bottles with intest to cause harm = legitimate demonstration of grievance; carry on

    • Accidentally drop PET bottle from aircraft = imperialistic act of violence; cannot be countenanced

    Welcome to Japan Today.

  • -5

    letsberealistic

    @Nessie

    Throw bottles with intest to cause harm = legitimate demonstration of grievance; carry on Accidentally drop PET bottle from aircraft = imperialistic act of violence; cannot be countenanced Welcome to Japan Today.

    facetiousness not necessary Nessie. I am not condoning SS actions, but all they do is throe little bottles of rancid butter onto the ships to taint the whale meat. Watch Whale Wars and you'll see SS people are basically average Joe's and would never want to hurt the Japanese whalers. They were noticeably shaken and very concerned one time when a Japanese whaler was reported overboard, although this turned out to be false.

  • -2

    Thunderbird2

    You know, it would be interesting to see a demographic chart of where JT posters who are either pro or anti whaling come from. I have a feeling that most of the pros will be conservative Americans.

    Back on topic, and SS should ditch the bottles tactic and just use whale distress calls through an underwater loudpseaker to lure or chase the whales away.

  • 4

    Probie

    but all they do is throe little bottles of rancid butter

    It's not just "rancid butter", it's acid. Yeah, it's the acid in rancid butter, but it's just like how it is with citric acid= drop some of that in your eye and tell me "it's just the stuff from oranges".

  • -5

    DJbooth

    Some of the comments on here are just laughable! Ossam you state the Aus & NZ gov's equities yet fail to mention your buddies comments(davidattokyo), how wikileaks provided gov interactions prior to the inquiry between japan, Aus, & NZ that the crack head Capt of the Shonan Maru would be found innocent, even before the inquiry was started! As for Bethune it is all recorded on camera, he ordered the scuttling of the Ady Gil, Paul Watson wanted him to return to Aus, he refused & demanded he board the Shonan Maru.

    & as for HedaMadnesses comments,(apt as she obviously is), at NO point do any SS crew members throw glass bottles at Antibes heads, quite the opposite, they are ordered to avoid any part of the vessel with people there.

    As for terrorism let's look at Greenpeaces statement as to why they would no longer send ships & crew to Amtarctica;"due to the increasingly VIOLENT TACTICS EMPLOYED BY JAPANESE WHALERS we are no longer willing to risk our vessels or crew", so J-whalers used VIOLENCE to get their own way, by deffimition a TERRORIST ACT...

  • -7

    letsberealistic

    ProbieFEB. 12, 2013 - 05:11PM JST but all they do is throe little bottles of rancid butter

    It's not just "rancid butter", it's acid. Yeah, it's the acid in rancid butter, but it's just like how it is with citric acid= drop some of that in your eye and tell me "it's just the stuff from oranges".

    The point being, their is no intent to harm others, so they are not being violent towards others, just the ships deck.

    Watch the damn TV series for cris sakes people and stop shooting from your vigilante-based ideas.

  • 1

    Kyle Alpert

    Whale is delicious and filled with nutrients from the purest depths of the sea. I am proud of Japan for standing up for itself here. Terrorists, Western or otherwise, have disavowed there human rights and should be dealt with expeditiously. Japan is acting within the law, and like any modern nation has a right to interpret & abuse ambiguously worded legislation. Truth is, historically, Western countries have done far more to deplete whale stock; Japan is just taking their fare share. International whaling law was created as is for a reason.

  • -4

    DJbooth

    Terrorism; to use violence or threats of to force your own views.So by using violence & threats to human lives the Japanese whalers did this to Greanpeace, so that makes the J-whalers TERRORISTS.

    & funny how some complain about SS appealing a decision but fail to mention it was on appeal of a decision that went against them that the J-whalers got this decision which is now being appealed by SS. So I guess they approve of appealing legal rulings that go against them, but if someone appeals & uses legal avenues against what they think that the apelants have no rights!

  • 2

    Heda_Madness

    It's not just "rancid butter", it's acid. Yeah, it's the acid in rancid butter, but it's just like how it is with citric acid= drop some of that in your eye and tell me "it's just the stuff from oranges".

    Contained in GLASS BOTTLES. Why is it acceptable to throw glass bottles? Do that at a baseball game, a football match and see what happens. It's an offensive weapon which is more than capable of killing someone. It doesn't really matter if it's a kind of acid or a kind of butter the fact is if you get hit in the head it could kill you. If it shatters, it could kill you.

    And why would anyone sanction or even support that?

  • 2

    Heda_Madness

    The point being, their is no intent to harm others, so they are not being violent

    If you walked in to 7-11 with a knife but no intent to harm the cashier, would it be violent? According to you it wouldn't be. According to the law it would be.

  • 3

    OssanAmerica

    DJboothFEB. 12, 2013 - 05:45PM JST Some of the comments on here are just laughable! Ossam you state the Aus & NZ gov's equities yet fail to mention >your buddies comments(davidattokyo), how wikileaks provided gov interactions prior to the inquiry between japan, Aus, >& NZ that the crack head Capt of the Shonan Maru would be found innocent, even before the inquiry was started! As for >Bethune it is all recorded on camera, he ordered the scuttling of the Ady Gil, Paul Watson wanted him to return to Aus, >he refused & demanded he board the Shonan Maru.

    The only crack heads are people who support eco-terrorism and believe Sea Shepherd generated outright lies, propaganda and ridiculous conspiracy theories. The games over the cards are all on the table in various judicial forums, it is now a matter of time before the SSCS show is over. Best find something else to support.

  • 1

    Heda_Madness

    & as for HedaMadnesses comments,(****apt as she obviously is), at NO point do any SS crew members throw glass bottles at Antibes heads, quite the opposite, they are ordered to avoid any part of the vessel with people there. Have you ever been on a ship in rolling seas? And you think you can control where something is thrown.

    Secondly. Glass shatters. Can you control that.

    Finally, I'm not a girl, but hey given you're accusations against me that's the least of my concerns.

    Is obviously what?

  • 4

    ddpalmer

    Andre Hut

    The Japanese are operating in Australian Territorial Waters, in a whale sanctuary established by Australia, in defiance of a court order from the Australian Federal Court. Does that sound "legal" to you?

    Sorry Andre but Australia makes those claims in defiance of the Antarctic Treaty. And the Australia court even said in their decision that Australia can't enforce the claims.

    The Japanese took money intended for tsunami victims, and used it for supporting their whaling fleet. Do you think people are going to donate and help, the next time there is a disaster in Japan?

    The money used wasn't donated money. It was Japanese tax revenue.

    The meat they take, loaded with Mercury, ends up in freezers by the ton, because very few Japanese even like it, then they use it to feed school children.

    Actually the whales from the Southern Ocean have lower mercury levels than most other seafoods.

  • -5

    letsberealistic

    Heda_MadnessFEB. 12, 2013 - 06:39PM JST The point being, their is no intent to harm others, so they are not being violent If you walked in to 7-11 with a knife but no intent to harm the cashier, would it be violent? According to you it wouldn't be. According to the law it would be.

    Slight error with your analogy, no? You mean, "If you walked in to 7-11 with a small bottle but no intent to harm the cashier, would it be violent?"

    No, I wouldn't call that viole. Would you?nt

    • Moderator

      No more analogies please.

  • 1

    Heda_Madness

    Go into a 7-11 and throw a glass bottle until the cashier does what you want them to do.

    You'll go to prison. Why? Becuase it's violent.

    As was said above, if someone went in to your work and started throwing glass bottles at you, you'd be alright with that?

    But your point is if there's no intent it's not violent. I disagree. Greenpeace disagrees. The law disagrees. And 12 of your peers would disagree with you in a court of law.

  • -2

    DJbooth

    GreenPeace also refuses to send ships & crew to Antarctica anymore due to the VIOLENT, TERRORIST ACTS of J-whalers as they have stated , maybe you should start including some of those quotes in your posts for a little more credibility?

  • -3

    letsberealistic

    All anti-SS commentators; be honest, are you;

    A. against SS because they are radical and extreme and that simply goes against your believe in as right and proper? B. against SS because you think Japan should continue whaling? OR C. All of above?

  • 3

    Heda_Madness

    Greenpeace are against whaling. That's pretty obvious.

    But well done for managing to post without a personal attack. Guess you're trying to get a little more credibility

    We passionately want to stop whaling, and will do so peacefully. That's why we won't help Sea Shepherd. Greenpeace is committed to non-violence and we'll never, ever, change that; not for anything. If we helped Sea Shepherd to find the whaling fleet we'd be responsible for anything they did having got that information, and history shows that they've used violence in the past, in the most dangerous seas on Earth. For us, non-violence is a non-negotiable, precious principle. Greenpeace will continue to act to defend the whales, but will never attack or endanger the whalers.

  • -2

    DJbooth

    & Ossam is funny how you cite AMSA & NZMA inquiries, yet at the time when Japan gov refused to give any evidence,(just like someone guilty refuses to give evidence in a court), you defended J-whalers saying they shouldn't give evidence, & both enquirer stated a FAILIER of providing evidence made the enquiry untenable, yet now you choose to quote them???

    & do not fail to remember the IWC has reprimanded Japan & past motions regarding the violent actions of the J-whalers & causing danger to human life at sea...

  • -3

    DJbooth

    & I think you will find Ossam as far as court rulings & authorities re whaling go regarding J-whalers, they have been on the losing end of such rulings, the appeal made to the 9th circuit court was & is their only win, now that is being appealed in a higher court, normal legal procedure.

  • -3

    DJbooth

    Heda once again you seem to have left out the bit about "increasingly VIOLENT TACTICS EMPLOYED BY JAPANESE WHALERS" & how they are no longer willing to risk the lives of their crew, so the J-whalers are TERRORISTS, using violence & fear to intimidate others...

  • 1

    Heda_Madness

    both enquirer stated a FAILIER of providing evidence made the enquiry untenabl

    This is perhaps the biggest falsehood I have seen on anything by the anti whalers. The MANZ inquiry accepted that there was another inquiry by the Japanese Coast guard, that the SS had willfully tried to remove evidence.

    You really want to read the report.

  • 2

    Yubaru

    One thing many people mistake about SS - they are not violent war-mongers or terrorists - just a bunch of well-meaning, albeit naive, animal lovers. Don't believe me? Watch Whale Wars and see the doe-eyed truth of it all.

    Really, then I wonder what their goals are when they attempt to physically harm the humans on the Japanese whaling ships? Sounds to me like you are using their being naive to justify their attempted murder of human beings in their desire to try and save the whales. That is a type of what's called eco-terrorism.

  • -1

    letsberealistic

    Heda_Madness Greenpeace will continue to act to defend the whales, but will never attack or endanger the whalers.

    Fair enough, can't argue with that. I think SS are just frustrated Greenpeacer's. I expect they realised Greenpeace was ineffective and went out on their own. Still I don't think Greenpeace is complaining about the results, and no-one has yet been hurt.

  • 1

    Yubaru

    I try to avoid dictating my political views to my students - with all respect, most Japanese tend to lack the ability and emotional maturity to debate rationally without getting very emotional - trust me have tried before.

    Sorry but this sounds like a cop-out and disrespectful of your students and is also a knock on the teacher as well. If they are intelligent enough to make responses such as ;

    and they all (3 members) agreed they disliked SS, but at the same time believed the whaling was not for science but the Japanese fear of losing face and pride.

    They are more than intelligent enough to discuss the issue without emotion IF the teacher instructing designs a proper lesson. It may take some time preparing them, but you do them a dis-service, and you underestimate them and look down on them as well. And I'll bet you dont even know why either.

  • -1

    DJbooth

    & Ossam you failed to quote the findings of both energies correctly, that due to failed of cooperation from the Japanese gov they were unable to reach a firm conclusion, but both enquiries laid at minimum 50% of fault on the crack head captain of the Shonan Maru, & both enquiries found the Ady Gil was in fact the vessel with right of way. & that the Shonan Maru altered course which ultimately caused the collision...

  • -2

    letsberealistic

    @Yubaru

    Really, then I wonder what their goals are when they attempt to physically harm the humans on the Japanese whaling ships? Sounds to me like you are using their being naive to justify their attempted murder of human beings in their desire to try and save the whales. That is a type of what's called eco-terrorism.

    Where and when have Sea Shepherd* ever* shown any indication they *want *to physically harm any human on the Japanese whaling fleet? And don't say because they throw bottles on the ship, the intention there is to damage the whale meat.

  • 1

    Heda_Madness

    ... all you like it doesn't make it true. The New Zealand report did NOT say that the SM altered course which ultimately caused the collision. Yet another lie.

    The report was equally damning to both parties

    They couldn't determine what impact that AG's acceleration caused That it was also the Gs responsibility to take action to avoid a collision

    Etc etc The conclusion being that both parties were at fault. And also the Shonan Maru acted responsibly after the collision until requested to stand down by the Bob Barker.

  • 1

    Heda_Madness

    Do you realise that intent isn't a pre-requisite in law? Unless of course you're looking at murder and manslaughter.

    I didn't mean to injure someone, it just happened that because of my actions I did. Is not a defence. Especially as any reasonable individual can understand the consequences.

  • 0

    letsberealistic

    If SS are the violent, blood thirsty hooligans you make them out to be, why after more than ten years has no Japanese person been hurt apart from their own fault?

    SS members HAVE been injured by Japanese whalers however; http://www.japantoday.com/category/national/view/3-anti-whalers-injured-after-japanese-crew-throw-hooks-bamboo-poles-at-them

    Who is the more violent?

  • 1

    Fadamor

    without the SS - who else would get out there and fight for the whales?

    Why do you have to fight for the whales? What is it about them that makes them better than all the other denizens of the sea? I'd be careful about singing the praises of Sea Shepherd. Sea Shepherd ignores the whales in the most need of protection. The vast majority of whales harvested are not even on the "Near Threatened" list, never mind the "Endangered" list. During the 2011/2012 season, the ONLY species taken by Japan in the entire southern hemisphere were Minke whales (266). They are listed on the IUCN "Red List" as "Least Concern". The North Pacific has a bit more to be concerned about with 96 Sei whales ("Endangered" on the IUCN list), 50 Bryde's whales ("Insufficient Data" on the IUCN List) taken last year, yet Sea Shepherd seems to not be interested in that area for some reason - too far away from the TV cameras, perhaps?

    So tell me again why Sea Shepherd is "fighting" for them?

  • 2

    OssanAmerica

    DJboothFeb. 12, 2013 - 07:33PM JST & I think you will find Ossam as far as court rulings & authorities re whaling go regarding J-whalers, they have been on >the losing end of such rulings, the appeal made to the 9th circuit court was & is their only win, now that is being >appealed in a higher court, normal legal procedure.

    The US Supreme Court only hears cases relating to some aspect of the US constitution, The right to get within 500 yards of soeone to harass them doesn't cut the mustard, SSCS's appeal will be dismmissed,

  • 0

    Heda_Madness

    Interesting link. The slow moving Japanese boat and the fast moving SS boat. And you say thatbtge Japanese attacked? Logic not your forte?

  • 2

    OssanAmerica

    Don't know why SSCS and it;s supporters continue to cling to the Ady Gil issue. Even after the collision the vessel was repairable. It was Paul Watson who ordered it to be sunk. The J-whalers did NOT sink the Ady Gil. "Peter Bethune: Paul Watson Ordered Him To Sink Sea Shepherd's Own Boat, Ady Gil, 'To Create Better TV' On 'Whale Wars'"

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/10/07/peter-bethune-paul-watsonn754764.html

  • 1

    Yubaru

    Where and when have Sea Shepherd* ever* shown any indication they *want *to physically harm any human on the Japanese whaling fleet? And don't say because they throw bottles on the ship, the intention there is to damage the whale meat.

    Actions speak louder than words. Those same bottles are a threat to humans too. Does that matter? How about attempting to foul the screws on a ship, thereby putting crews in danger, ramming vessels, AND only doing it when they can get some exposure on TV.

    It's not about the whales for SS really, it's about getting free publicity as I see it. There are other creatures in the ocean that need protecting but if it''s not in the camera forget it when it comes to SS.

  • -4

    letsberealistic

    Interesting link. The slow moving Japanese boat and the fast moving SS boat. And you say that the Japanese attacked? Logic not your forte?

    Ah, did you read the article, it says the Japanese whalers THREW large metal hooks and bamboo pole **at ** SS crew. Now you're defending violence you said you could never accept. You've lost all credibility.

  • -4

    letsberealistic

    @Yubaru and Fedamor

    Look into the issues more closely; Sea Shephard are involved in a wide variety of activities around the world to protect many different sea species - you only know about SS and whaling because you haven't looked further into it.

    Here, let me help; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SeaShepherdConservation_Society

  • -1

    Heda_Madness

    Does the expression self defence mean anything to you. The Japanese did not go after the SS, they repelled them. Had the SS not gone over to attack them (and remember the SS have previously put armed people on board a ship) then this incident would never have happened.

    Yet more posture from the SS.

  • -1

    DJbooth

    Oh Heda, self defense!? Like chasing SS vessels, using illegal spy flights out of Aus to chase down SS vessels, then use LRAD'S & water cannons to destroy a helicopter & kill crew, & remember it was the J-whaling vessel chasing & trying to destroy, is that your idea of self defense? Or do you believe the lies that come out of the ICR publicity crew who are paid million$ to defend the indefencable?

    & just when did SS put armed people on their ships? The only armed people in Antarctic waters, in defiance of the Mexico agreement are the armed j-whalers. Armed with Military grade weapons, LRAD'S, high powered rifles, flash bang grenades, high grade pepper spray weapons worn on canisters on their back, armed JSDF forces. Then look at some of the footage of assults by j-crew members using metal objects, spears, & more with intent of inflicting injury on SS crew members, & finally using a vessel of several thousand tons to ram & destroy a vessel of 14 tons with six han lives on board.

    & if you want more proof just look at footage of j-whalers endangering lives of GreenPeace crew well before SS ever went to Antarctic waters, these acts include firing an explosive head harpoon within feet of a Greenpeaces crew members head, throwing spears at them, dumping G crew into fridgid Antarctic waters, & destroying G vessels. All caught on camera & showing the terrorist tactics employed by j-whalers, long before SS even went to Antarctic waters, & showing the history of VIOLENT TERRORIST TACTICS EMPLOYED BY J-WHALERS...

  • -4

    DJbooth

    Sorry, that should have read; to TRY to destroy a helicopter, & kill crew

  • 0

    Heda_Madness

    Boarding a ship with a knife is armed. Or do you have special laws in your special little world?

  • 1

    ddpalmer

    The flights weren't illegal. Unlike the SSCS's actions. Well with the effective range of the LRAD unless the helicopter was illegally close to the Japanese vessel they were in no danger (and ignoring the fact thatthe pilots headphones would negate any affect of the LRAD). It isn't in defiance of any agreement to have weapons in the Antarctic. The Japanese have a right to defend their vessels against pirates. Try reading the UN CLOS, the SSCS meets the definition of pirates. And sorry but the neutral (if not anti-Japanese) investigation put equal blame on both sides of the collision, even with the SSCS trying to destroy some of the evidence.

  • 4

    Yubaru

    Look into the issues more closely; Sea Shephard are involved in a wide variety of activities around the world to protect many different sea species - you only know about SS and whaling because you haven't looked further into it.

    This very well may be true, but as long as they use terror tactics to attack the Japanese fleet any good they may do elsewhere will continue to pale in comparison.

    The Japanese have the right to defend their ships from attacks.

  • -7

    AriesKJJ

    Science is showing us much about Cetaceans. The Japanese public needs and deserves to understand about these creatures. Their social skills have always amazed people but we find now that whales and Dolphins have spindle cells which were thought to be exclusively human and are believed to allow for self awareness.

    This one scientific discovery should be enough to at least give us a reason to take pause. There is much to learn about Cetaceans they are not' "just another animal" . They are the animal at the top of the most important ecosystem on our planet and as that ecosystem goes ... so do we.

    Join the fight to save whales and dolphins using the twitter hashtag #tweet4taiji

  • 1

    arrestpaul

    letsberealistic - Ah, did you read the article, it says the Japanese whalers THREW large metal hooks and bamboo pole **at ** SS crew. Now you're defending violence you said you could never accept.

    Hahaha. In order for the eco-terrorist SS mopes to be struck by 10 foot poles, they would have to have been with 10 feet of the person with the pole. The question is, "Why were the eco-terrorist SS violently attacking the whalers"?

    Everyone has a right to DEFEND themselves from attack. The whalers are DEFENDING themselves from the pro-violence, eco-terrorist SS. The eco-terrorist SS are whining that the whalers are DEFENDING themselves.

  • 2

    arrestpaul

    letsberealistic - If SS are the violent, blood thirsty hooligans you make them out to be, why after more than ten years has no Japanese person been hurt apart from their own fault?

    I seem to remember an injured whaler being discussed by the lawyers during the Bethune case in Japan. And there are those ten (10) vessels that the eco-terrorist SS brag about sinking. Plus the Japanese vessels that the eco-terrorist SS brag about ramming. Shouldn't forget the glass bottles of acid that the eco-terrorist SS routinely launch at the whalers, or the red phosphorus flares the eco-terrorists SS shoot at the whalers, or the repeated attempts by the eco-terrorist SS to disable the Japanese vessels by entangling their propellers with ropes and wire.

    Let's face it, the violent, blood thirsty hooligans known as the eco-terrorist SS are as incompetent as crew as they are incompetent as violent, blood thirsty hooligans. It's not for lack of trying that the eco-terrorist SS have failed to injure more whalers or managed to kill someone.

  • -1

    arrestpaul

    The Sea Shepherd conservation group asked the U.S. Supreme Court on Monday to lift an order forcing it to steer clear of Japan’s whalers, who are seeking legal reprisals over harassment at sea.

    .....The U.S. Court of Appeals for the Ninth Circuit cited safety concerns when it issued the injunction, effective until a decision on the case.

    Kennedy jr has ASKED the SCOTUS to hear the case of the 9th Circuit injunction against the violence of the eco-terrorist SS. Kennedy jr can ask but that doesn't mean that the SCOTUS will agree to actually hear this appeal.

    On the other hand, it's nice to see that Robert Kennedy jr has found work in the legal field, even if it's only as a mouthpiece for eco-terrorists. I'm sure his late father would have been appalled at jr's choice to promote violence.

  • 0

    arrestpaul

    Looks like the U.S. Supreme Court has rejected Kennedy jr's request to hear the appeal.

  • 0

    andersenwhales

    As the whale wars continue giving positive support to japan from norway. its our culture. do not ever let anyone else define your own culture. especially not australians and paul watson.

    if paul watson is so hell bent on stopping the japanese why does not he save some critically endangered whales such as the right whale? they live off the coast of eastern north america. its in his neck of the woods.

  • 2

    Fadamor

    Japan's hunt in the southern hemisphere certainly isn't problematic. The only whales they've taken there are Minke whales (listed as "Least Concern"). Japan has less of a leg to stand on with the Sei whales (listed as "Endangered")they've taken in the North Pacific. If Sea Shepherd were worried about the whales, they'd be solely in the North Pacific blocking the hunt for Sei whales, but they don't go there - they like trolling around Australia and New Zealand looking for Japanese whaling ships.

  • 1

    OssanAmerica

    arrestpaulFeb. 15, 2013 - 11:15AM JST Looks like the U.S. Supreme Court has rejected Kennedy jr's request to hear the appeal.

    DJboothFeb. 12, 2013 - 07:33PM JST & I think you will find Ossam as far as court rulings & authorities re whaling go >regarding J-whalers, they have been on the losing end of such rulings, the appeal made to the 9th circuit court was & >is their only win, now that is being appealed in a higher court, normal legal procedure.

    OssanAmericaFeb. 13, 2013 - 02:37AM JST The US Supreme Court only hears cases relating to some aspect of the US constitution, The right to get within 500 yards of someone to harass them doesn't cut the mustard, SSCS's appeal will be dismissed,

  • 3

    andersenwhales

    watson is no concerned about whales. he is obsessed with people hunting whales. the most critically endangered whale in the world the right whale is not being hunted. they are killed by getting hit by huge tankers off the eastern coast of north america. to this day. paul watson and his brainwashed crew have not done a damn thing. not even lifted there little finger. they are too busy thinking of the cash they get by harassing japanese whalers who are hunting in a sustainable manner non endangered minke whales.

  • 1

    andersenwhales

    Jail Watson. Put him in Japanese detention and let the Australians and the whale lovers get hysterical. Paul Watson doesn't eat whales so he forces other people to give up whale meat too. If Japanese want to eat whales it is OK as long as the whales hunted are not endangered. Paul Watson is like a tabloid liberal in a klan costume. So is basically every country in the world who oppose Japanese resuming commercial whaling. The point of the scientific research is to resume commercial whaling. By studying the flocks etc they find out how many minke whales can be hunted. That meat is then sold. Instead of being artificially subsidized by the government a full resumption of commercial whaling and no subsidize from the government is the way it should go. Looking at 2 to 3000 whales are year from a stock of 750000 is not a big threat. IWC countries are bound to work in the interest of the whaling industry because Australia can't agree to these rules they should leave IWC.

  • 1

    arrestpaul

    OssanAmerica - Feb. 13, 2013 - 02:37AM JST The US Supreme Court only hears cases relating to some aspect of the US constitution, The right to get within 500 yards of someone to harass them doesn't cut the mustard, SSCS's appeal will be dismissed,

    You called it. The U.S. Court of Appeals for the Ninth Circuit cited safety concerns when it issued the injunction.

    Robert "my father was famous" Kennedy jr attempted to appeal the 9th Circuit's ruling by claiming that the 9th Circuit “acted rashly” when the judge ordered the eco-terrorist SS to cease and desist from violently and repeatedly attacking the whalers and the whaling vessels. Even the eco-terrorist SS doesn't claim that the 9th circuit doesn't have jurisdiction over the U.S.-based eco-terrorist SS organization.

    The next step should be for the 9th circuit or the proper U.S. government agency to remove the eco-terrorist SS non profit incorporation and tax exemption status.

  • 1

    OssanAmerica

    SSCS is losing the legal war in a big big way. Their legal actions,, from this attempt to appeal an injunction in the US Supreme Court, to filing an action in Portland Oregon against the ICR for the loss of the M/V Ady Gil when both Ady Gil himself and Peter Bethune are individually suing SSCS for the loss of the boat holding SSCS responsible, to the attempt to avoid Contempt of Court charges by arguing that the M/V Bridgette Bardot is Australian flagged and operated by Sea Shepherd Australia, as if U.S. Courts don't understand the concept of "subterfuge" all suggest a near childish level of comprehension of the legal process. Which I suppose is to be expected from an organization that has been incapable of distinguishing between "legal whaling" and "illegal whaling" all these years. The nonsense that SSCS and it's supporters throw at the media and internet forums doesn't work in a court of law,

  • -2

    arrestpaul

    OssanAmerica - SSCS is losing the legal war in a big big way. Their legal actions,, from this attempt to appeal an injunction in the US Supreme Court, to filing an action in Portland Oregon against the ICR for the loss of the M/V Ady Gil when both Ady Gil himself and Peter Bethune are individually suing SSCS for the loss of the boat holding SSCS responsible,

    The eco-terrorist SS toyboat Ady Gill was afloat until Watson dropped the tow. If the AG sunk, and it certainly looks like it did, the eco-terrorist SS are responsible for it's sinking.

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