Australia protests to Japan after whaling ship enters its waters

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  • 11

    Jeff Ogrisseg

    Nicely played, Canberra.

  • -7

    USNinJapan2

    Japan claims it conducts vital scientific research using a loophole in an international ban on whaling, but makes no secret of the fact that the animals ultimately end up on dinner plates.

    If AFP was unbiased this sentence would have ended as follows: "...end up on dinner plates in compliance with IWC Convention Article VIII-2 which requires any whales taken under special permits to be processed and the proceeds dealt with in accordance with directions issued by the Government by which the permit was granted.

  • 7

    caffeinebuzz

    The Japanese government will probably barely notice the whole irony of this- and call for the waaaahmbulance the next time a fishing boat from China shows up.

  • -10

    Vast Right-Wing Conspirator

    Is it illegal for a vessel to merely pass through the "zone" of another country? Somehow I don't think so.

  • 1

    gogogo

    Is the Australian government tracking the ships? I am against whaling but I would really like to know how they know that they entered.

  • 3

    Disillusioned

    Vast Right-Wing Conspirator - Is it illegal for a vessel to merely pass through the "zone" of another country? Somehow I don't think so.

    It sure as heck is! It is no different to the Chinese ships around Sengoku islands. And, as the article states, Japanese whaling ships are not welcome in Australian waters. They could actually confiscate the ships if they were so enclosed.

  • 0

    Disillusioned

    Edit: if they were so inclined. Damn auto type!!!

  • 0

    USNinJapan2

    “This vessel has armed personnel aboard,” he said. “It is an affront to Australia that it is entering our territorial waters surrounding the World Heritage-listed Macquarie Island, which is part of Tasmania.”

    Territorial waters is strictly defined as >12nm from the coast and the EEZ is defined as >200nm. The Australian EEZ which the Japanese ships are/were is NOT territorial waters. If it was, the Australian government would have the legal right to intercept and escort the ships out of its territory using its coast guard, but since the EEZ ISN'T territorial waters and the only authority the Australian government has in the zone is over the natural resources found there, all they can do is object and protest that the whaling ships aren't welcome in the EEZ. It's embarassing for Sea Shepherd that Bob Barker can't tell the difference between territorial waters and the EEZ and is clueless to the fact that his government has no legal authority to hinder foreign ships engaging in innocent passage in its EEZ.

  • -8

    USNinJapan2

    Disillusioned

    And, as the article states, Japanese whaling ships are not welcome in Australian waters. They could actually confiscate the ships if they were so enclosed.

    No, you couldn't be more wrong. The ships aren't welcome in the EEZ but they have the legal right to be there because Australia has no legal jurisdiction over foreign ships there who are not doing something that has to do with the natural resources found in the EEZ. The whalers are/were only transiting through the EEZ en route to the hunting grounds and were not hunting any whales inside the EEZ so Australia is merely expressing their dissatisfaction over their presence which is all they can legally do.

    It is no different to the Chinese ships around Sengoku islands.

    Oh I hadn't realized that this article is about China and Japan's territorial dispute. Off topic Mods?

  • 0

    basroil

    “The government strongly objects to whaling vessels passing through Australian territorial seas or our exclusive economic zone,”

    They can strongly object, but any ship is free to pass anywhere in the economic zone regardless of flag or purpose. It's not like the ship was fishing there, so they have jack.

    USNinJapan2Feb. 01, 2013 - 02:58PM JST

    Oh I hadn't realized that this article is about China and Japan's territorial dispute.

    The parallels between the two are very similar actually, ships are free to enter, leave, transit through, and idle in the economic zone without any legal issue. Fishing, drilling, and other economic activities (other than sales and trading) are restricted, but just like Japan can't tell Chinese military vessels to get out, neither can Australia tell Japanese vessels to do the same.

  • -5

    letsberealistic

    I think the whole whaling issue is going to come to ahead this year, especially with the increased strength of SS and the court hearing brought by Aus happening later this year.

    As soon as the Japanese themselves start to see the light and get behind the end to south-pacific whaling. We live in hope.

  • 4

    smithinjapan

    "“This vessel has armed personnel aboard,” he said."

    Japan is therefore sending militants into another nations territory, and it COULD be viewed as a declaration of war (in the extreme). Japan says it is 'carrying out its mission under international law' -- well, sorry, schmucks, that doesn't apply once you've entered another nation's territory! Australia should have some ships out there ready to catch and keep any Japanese ships or otherwise that enter the territory without permission. This is NOT international waters!

    Vast Right-Wing: "Is it illegal for a vessel to merely pass through the "zone" of another country? Somehow I don't think so."

    You don't think so, eh? So it's perfectly all right then for a Chinese sub to pass between the islands of Okinawa on its way to the open Pacific? Boy, you really didn't think that comment out carefully, did you?

  • 8

    smithinjapan

    letsberalistic: "As soon as the Japanese themselves start to see the light and get behind the end to south-pacific whaling. We live in hope."

    Sadly, they won't see the light. They'll forget the whole lie is that it's 'science' and people in Japan who have no interest in eating whale or know a thing about what's going on will be stirred by right-wingers and the media into a frenzy claiming foreigners (Australians in Australian waters, and other 'foreigners' in the Southern Ocean!) are on some kind of 'Imperialistic mission to destroy ancient Japanese culture' -- as though they've been whaling in the Souther Ocean on diesel ships with explosive harpoons for centuries! Then you'll say to them, "I thought it was for science!" and they'll just say, "You're attacking our culture" on repeat, deer-in-headlight eyes, etc. while the government scrambles to bribe land-locked nations in Africa to appeal to the international courts for help. The very few old codgers who are government subsidized so that most of the meat can rot in freezers or be force-fed to school children will NEVER see the light.

  • 3

    Vast Right-Wing Conspirator

    Smith;

    Actually, as long as that sub was outside of Territorial waters, then yeah I wouldn't care.

    Ditto for a Japanese ship outside of Australia's territorial waters. 12 miles vs. 200 miles. If the Japanese whalers enter the 12 mile zone, then the Aussies can take direct action. As for the ships having "armed personnel" aboard, I think it's only prudent for ALL vessels to have some form of self defence available. There is no mention of who exactly is armed, or if there are actual military/police on board. The story is vague on that point.

  • 4

    smithinjapan

    Vast Right-Wing: "There is no mention of who exactly is armed, or if there are actual military/police on board. "

    Unless they've changed something from last year when they took money ear-marked for earth-quake relief to put armed Coast Guard on Japanese ships (in international waters, making them mercs), then I'm assuming that's what they are still doing.

    In any case, they still entered Australia's zone, and if China did the same thing Japan would be screaming bloody murder. They can't see the hypocrisy. Anyway, year after year the case is being lost for Japan, and it won't be long before the loophole is closed, or at least whaling in the Southern Ocean banned.

  • 4

    sighclops

    @gogogo

    Is the Australian government tracking the ships? I am against whaling but I would really like to know how they know that they entered.

    Australia's hottest political issue at the moment is asylum seekers, which are seemingly caught daily. Patrolling the waters is a full time job.

  • 5

    Vast Right-Wing Conspirator

    Can you be more specific Smith? WHen you say "entered Australia's zone", what zone are you exactly referring to? Do you mean territorial waters, or their economic exclusion zone? It's important because the rules are extremely different for the two.

  • -7

    Outta here

    USNinJapan

    No, you couldn't be more wrong. The ships aren't welcome in the EEZ but they have the legal right to be there because Australia has no legal jurisdiction over foreign ships there who are not doing something that has to do with the natural resources found in the EEZ. The whalers are/were only transiting through the EEZ en route to the hunting grounds and were not hunting any whales inside the EEZ so Australia is merely expressing their dissatisfaction over their presence which is all they can legally do.

    I will point it out to you AGAIN as you seem to have trouble understanding the very law you are refering to. Under the rules regarding EEZ's ships may transit unhindered as long as they abide by the rules that are internationally recognised. This instance just like the ones last year where in breach of these laws. Yes vessels can transit however like last time these vessels where not transiting they where following another vessel into these waters and not leaving. It was not merely going through the EEZ on its journey. Imagine if you will a US vessel following a Chinese vessel into the Chinese EEZ. What would happen.... Oh thats right it would be forcefully removed. And before you go quoting about EEZ's my country already seizes vessels in our EEZ that are merely transiting... Indonesian fishing vessel, people smuggling vessels etc. Maybe we should do the same to this JCG vessel. Maybe we should board it and tow it to the nearest port to determine its intentions afterall we do it all the time in our northern EEZ.....

    "It is no different to the Chinese ships around Sengoku islands." Oh I hadn't realized that this article is about China and Japan's territorial dispute. Off topic Mods?

    LOL its not, the poster is merely showing the hypocrisy of the Japanese.... They bleat and moan when a Chinese vessel enters their self declared EEZ but doesnt blink an eye at repeated violating not only Australia's EEZ but also last year our Territorial waters....

    Its also amusing that those posters on here that bemoan the Chinese the loudest (you included) are also the loudest condemning Australia and defending Japanese actions...

  • 0

    USNinJapan2

    smithinjapan

    Why is it so hard to understand and accept the fact that Australia has no jurisdiction and authority over the Japanese vessels in its EEZ (12nm-200nm) regardless of whether or not there are armed personnel onboard? These ships aren't coming within 12 nautical miles of an Australian Coast, meaning they are not violating Australia's territorial waters. Even this idiot Bob Brown states that the Japanese have not violated Australian territorial waters. From this morning's article linked below: "Brown said the Shonan Maru No. 2 stopped just outside Australian territorial waters but remained inside Australia's exclusive economic zone Friday as the Bob Barker proceeded up the island's coast."

    http://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory/australia-protests-japan-whaling-ship-18372315

  • -1

    cleo

    This season both SS and the icr are being very quiet. No word from either of them on their websites about how dastardly the other is.

    Having the SM2 chase the BB up by Maquairie Island - didn't they use the very same tactics last season? SS claimed a victory because every whaling ship tailing an SS ship was a ship that wasn't actively engaged in whaling. Hopefully with more ships in the water, the SS will be able to stop all the whaling fleet from firing their harpoons and the whale butchers will once again go home early.

  • 3

    USNinJapan2

    Outa here

    But you're right. What would I, a career naval officer with more years at sea than I would like, know about EEZ's and territorial waters? Feel free to believe what you want...

    Just ask yourself one question. If, as you claim, Australia has the legal authority to intercept, board, and seize vessels and arrest crewmembers of vessels steaming and/or loitering in their EEZ that are not engaged in mining, surveying, fishing, etc. as is the case with Japanese whaling fleet, then why in all these years has the Australian government done nothing more than send a customs vessel to observe the whaling fleet despite all the dramatic rhetoric and the insistence of the anti-whaling crowd that their mere presence is a violation of Australian territorial waters and a violation of Australian laws, particularly the Environment Protection and Biodiversity Conservation Act? Why the inaction?

    Could it possibly be that the Australian government isn't stupid and knows full well that it's domestic anti-whaling laws can't legally be applied to foreign ships in its EEZ that aren't actually whaling there? Could it? Naaaaa. Of course they wouldn't know better than you...

  • 1

    oldsanno

    Q. Why is it so hard to understand and accept the fact that Australia has no jurisdiction and authority over the Japanese vessels in its EEZ?

    A. blind hatred

  • 0

    Thunderbird2

    The Aussies should send a frigate out there, show the whalers that they are no longer in international waters and that their presence there is extremely unwelcome.

  • -6

    Outta here

    USNinJapan2,

    The answer to your question is simple. For the same reason that they didnt last year even when the Japanese entered our territorial waters and refused to leave when it was demanded that they did. We didnt have any vessels in the area. See most of our military and customs vessels are located in the north of our country dealing with the illegal Indonesia fishing and also the illegal boat people. Which leaves the nearest naval or customs vessels large enough to make the journey in Sydney or Perth. There is also a matter of cost associated with doing it and the hope that maybe the Japanese would respect our borders. But that is looking unlikely.

    But as a career naval officer you would know better right. Phhh so your a career naval officer... Your also a pilot if I'm not mistaken!!!!

  • -5

    WA4TKG

    (USN-J/Pan) Captain Jack, I think you are, of course, held in CONTEMPT for the very fact that you ARE Military, and you DO know what you are talking about...just stop already, unless you are just keeping your typing fingers in shape :)

  • -3

    basroil

    smithinjapanFeb. 01, 2013 - 03:42PM JST

    This is NOT international waters!

    Actually, by the various treaties and UN definitions they agreed to, it is international waters. What it is not is a "high seas", but the legal distinction between EEZ and territorial waters is huge.

    So it's perfectly all right then for a Chinese sub to pass between the islands of Okinawa on its way to the open Pacific?

    So long as they don't stray within the territorial waters (or contiguous waters if they are polluting or likely to violate territorial waters) they can run circles around any islands they want. Not good manners, but perfectly legal.

    Outta hereFeb. 01, 2013 - 04:27PM JST

    They bleat and moan when a Chinese vessel enters their self declared EEZ but doesnt blink an eye at repeated violating not only Australia's EEZ but also last year our Territorial waters....

    Not at all, they might state in the news they dislike it, but they only launch formal complaints when fishing boats are fishing in the area, or ships violate contiguous and territorial waters. And unlike Australia's self declared Antarctic territorial waters

  • -1

    Outta here

    Basroil,

    Not at all, they might state in the news they dislike it, but they only launch formal complaints when fishing boats are fishing in the area, or ships violate contiguous and territorial waters. And unlike Australia's self declared Antarctic territorial waters

    Hey there basroil at least some countries recognise our claim unlike Japan's self declared unrecognised sovereignty claims... Hehe funny one Bazza.....

  • -1

    BurakuminDes

    The Aussies should send a frigate out there, show the whalers that they are no longer in international waters and that their presence there is extremely unwelcome.

    This is precisely what the conservatives under Abbott have promised to do after September when they take office - or at the least a patrol boat. The slaughtered whale numbers will be way down again in 2013 - I suspect they will be closer to zero in season 2014. Japanese tax wastage on these hunts may soon be over.

  • 3

    taj

    I appreciate the informative posts, differentiating between territorial and EEZ waters. I wish people would be less emotional and more reasonable (factual) on these threads in general, but I have little hope when it comes to the topic of whaling. Please, don't be discouraged by the down-votes though! I don't mind which side of the issue you're on, I'm happy to be better informed. So THANKS!

  • 1

    USNinJapan2

    Outta here

    But as a career naval officer you would know better right. Phhh so your a career naval officer... Your also a pilot if I'm not mistaken!!!!

    Yes I would. And yes I am. I am a pilot and many of us do drive ships during our tours at sea as ship's company, particularly on our disassociated (non-flying) sea tours. My knowledge of this topic is both academic (classroom) and based on first hand experience navigating and planning flights. What's yours? Google?

  • 0

    Scrote

    So last week Japan used water cannons on Taiwanese vessels that were outside the EEZ (> 12 NM), but inside the claimed territorial waters. In fact NHK make a big song and dance whenever Chinese ships come near to, but do not enter, Japan's claimed EEZ.

    I wonder what NHK will have to say about today's incident? Precisely nothing I expect. It all goes to demonstrate the breathtaking hypocrisy and bias in NHK "news".

  • 3

    USNinJapan2

    Outta here

    Hey there basroil at least some countries recognise our claim unlike Japan's self declared unrecognised sovereignty claims...

    Oh right, four whopping countries (UK, Norway, France, New Zealand) that recognize Australia's Antarctic Territory. In contrast 50 nations are signatories of the Antarctic Treaty System which specifically doesn't recognize territorial claims in Antarctica. And the kicker? Australia itself is a signatory of the ATS despite having territorial claims in the Antarctic. Someone explain that one to me.

    And once again you insist on dragging the territorial dispute Japan has with its neighbors into this. Japan's disputes are dispute over territory that is claimed historically by multiple nations. The question here is who should be the rightful owner of the territory. The case of Australia's claim to the Australian Antarctic Territory is one in which one nation (Australia) unilaterally has staked a claim over territory on the only continent without a native human population which a very large number of nations have agreed should remain non-national in order to prevent its militarization and to ensure freedom of scientific investigation. The question here is should any territorial claims be permitted on Antarctica. You don't see a glaring difference between the two?

  • 3

    USNinJapan2

    taj

    I wish people would be less emotional and more reasonable (factual) on these threads in general, but I have little hope when it comes to the topic of whaling.

    That's precisely the problem. The incidental fact that these Japanese ships happen to be whaling vessels is immaterial to the question of whether Australia has the right to do anything to them while they are in Australia's EEZ but not actually engaged in whaling. The verdict would be the same if this scenario were to be applied to vessels belonging to any nation in the EEZ of any other country anywhere else on the planet. Just because the location happens to be Australia's EEZ and that some here are vehemently against whaling doesn't change the rights afforded vessels in a foreign EEZ by UNCLOS or the inapplicability of Australia's domestic environmental laws to foreign vessels who are merely engaged in innocent passage by any international standard. It really shouldn't be an emotional and irrational argument but those rabidly against whaling insist on making it so.

  • 3

    USNinJapan2

    Scrote

    So last week Japan used water cannons on Taiwanese vessels that were outside the EEZ (> 12 NM), but inside the claimed territorial waters. In fact NHK make a big song and dance whenever Chinese ships come near to, but do not enter, Japan's claimed EEZ.

    You may want to check you facts, or maybe put down the bottle. The Taiwanese vessel not only passed through the island's EEZ but entered the Contiguous Zone which is inside the EEZ, between the EEZ and the innermost Territorial Waters. If you don't know what the Contiguous Zone is you may want to go look it up before making outlandish claims like the one above.

  • -1

    basroil

    ScroteFeb. 01, 2013 - 06:49PM JST

    So last week Japan used water cannons on Taiwanese vessels that were outside the EEZ (> 12 NM), but inside the claimed territorial waters.

    In addition to USNin's input, there's one further issue with your statement. The only way for your situation to happen is if you are talking about an inland lake or sea, as ALL territorial waters next to EEZ are inside that EEZ. Neither Japan nor Australia have such bodies of water accessible from outside the EEZ, so your incident didn't happen as you state it.

  • -1

    NZ2011

    Simply, if Japan wants to play with whales perhaps they should be doing it a little closer to home.

  • -1

    BurakuminDes

    The question here is should any territorial claims be permitted on Antarctica.

    Not really the issue at all. Macquarie Island is a territory of Australia - this is recognised by the UN and every other nation as far as I know. Undisputed. Last year, the Shonan Maru came within 5 km of Mac. Island - it appears this Japanese govt. ship is doing it again.

  • 0

    BurakuminDes

    BTW - Macquarie Island is a World Heritage site full of incredibly sensitive wildlife. It is of course sensible and logical that the Aussie govt. does not wish to have a whaling vessel anywhere near this pristine territory - let alone a few kilometres.

  • 0

    sf2k

    nutty season has returned

  • 1

    USNinJapan2

    BurakuminDes

    it appears this Japanese govt. ship is doing it (enter territorial waters) again.

    No it doesn't. If it did you'd be able to find an article to contradict this quote from this article:

    "...the Shonan Maru No. 2 stopped just outside Australian territorial waters but remained inside Australia's exclusive economic zone..."

    http://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory/australia-protests-japan-whaling-ship-18372315

  • -6

    eyeonwarson

    @ USNinJapan2

    The case of Australia's claim to the Australian Antarctic Territory is one in which one nation (Australia) unilaterally has staked a claim over territory on the only continent without a native human population which a very large number of nations have agreed should remain non-national in order to prevent its militarization and to ensure freedom of scientific investigation. The question here is should any territorial claims be permitted on Antarctica. You don't see a glaring difference between the two?

    The macquarie island sovereignty isnt in question, it belongs to Australia and does not come under Ozs Australian Antarctic claim at all.

    Regarding the australian comment of

    “The government strongly objects to whaling vessels passing through Australian territorial seas or our exclusive economic zone,” Environment Minister Tony Burke said.

    He can go take a hike, or better still, read Article 45 of UNCLOS and understand what that means. No, I´m afraid all we have here is yet another australian politician grandstanding for the voters

  • -1

    eyeonwarson

    Damn. missed this bit ..

    Brown, the founder of Australia’s Greens party, praised Canberra for raising the incursion with Tokyo. “This vessel has armed personnel aboard,” he said.

    Huh? how does he know? Did they shoot at him? perhaps in the same way that "watson got shot" ? ;o)

    If there were weapons on board, I sincerely hope they would be used in the event of some animal rights idiot trying to board the ship..

  • -2

    humanrights

    Canberra should Scramble Jets and use Water cannons on the Invaders! See how they feel!

  • 3

    choiwaruoyaji

    Japan has a huge PR problem with its Antarctic whaling.

    It is effectively flipping a big finger at all the countries closest to the Antarctic.

    Has anyone in Japan ever bothered to think about the fact that EVERY SINGLE COUNTRY closest to the Antarctic is opposed to their Victorian era whaling fleet greedily grabbing whales down there???

    That's right... South Africa, Argentina, Chile, Oz, NZ... every single one of the countries closest to the Antarctic is absolutely opposed to this.

    Does that mean nothing to Japan?

    Is grabbing whales to satisfy the greed of a few nasty oyajis in their dingy izakayas more important than making good relationships with all these countries?

    And then to provocatively enter the EEZ of one of those countries?!

    Let's try to imagine things the other way round...

    Japan is always going on and on about how important whale meat is for Japan's "food culture".

    Apparently Japan has an oh-so-very-important food culture.

    It's so important that they love telling the world about it at every opportunity.

    Well, let's Imagine if the Aussies started going on and on about their very important "barbeque culture".

    And let's imagine that the Aussies were demanding polar bear meat for that "barbeque culture".

    Imagine if the Aussies sent a huge fleet up to the Arctic every year to grab those polar bears, against opposition from Japan, Russia, Canada, etc., provocatively passing through those countries EEZ.

    Could you imagine it...

    Could you see how ridiculous and unimaginable it is?

    There... there you have Japan's Antarctic whaling...

  • 0

    USNinJapan2

    eyeonwarson

    The macquarie island sovereignty isnt in question, it belongs to Australia and does not come under Ozs Australian Antarctic claim at all.

    Of course it doesn't and no one on this thread has claimed that the sovereignty of Macquarie Island is in question. It is Australian territory without a doubt. The two territories with contested ownership that were being discussed earlier in this thread were the Australian Antarctic Territory (Australia's vs. neutral/no ownership) itself and the Senkaku Islands (Japan vs. China). You're read something into the discussion that simply wasn't there.

  • -2

    avigator

    Australians, are you aware of the "Boycott Japan movement until the slaughter stops" movement out there? Just type boycott japan in the Internet browser or in facebook.

  • 0

    DudeDeuce

    At least Australians seem to protest peacefully when it comes to Japan. If these were Lebanese fisherman, Sydney would be burned to the ground.

  • -2

    avigator

    To get Japanese back into reality, the World has to conduct its own mission of boycotting Japanese products. So, Australians, somebody has to set the example and start the process.

  • -2

    avigator

    I would not underestimate the power of the Australian Navy and the will of the great Australian people united under one common noble cause.

  • -2

    avigator

    There are a lot of whales that come down to Okinawa waters, why does not Japan hunt in their own territorial waters?

  • 2

    Sperry

    Is the Australian government tracking the ships? I am against whaling but I would really like to know how they know that they entered.

    Gogogo. Like the U.S., the U.K., and others, the Australians monitor their waters using Radar, Sonar, Satellite, and High-Altitude Reconnaissance.

  • 0

    caffeinebuzz

    I haven't heard of any boycott movement, and I doubt most Aussies have. Not to say it doesn't exist but you can find green group opposition to just about anything. They'd want to boycott Chinese products if they could, but that would be all but Impossible. I for one think it's time that Australia beefed up its navy and prescence with patrols using the considerable wealth at its disposal.

  • -3

    Tony Ew

    @ScroteFeb. 01, 2013 - 06:49PM JST

    So last week Japan used water cannons on Taiwanese vessels that were outside the EEZ (> 12 NM), but inside the claimed territorial waters. In fact NHK make a big song and dance whenever Chinese ships come near to, but do not enter, Japan's claimed EEZ. I wonder what NHK will have to say about today's incident? Precisely nothing I expect. It all goes to demonstrate the breathtaking hypocrisy and bias in NHK "news".

    Japan practise 'selective democracy'. It is not like what we have in the States where the good and the bad gets equal coverage. Wish there is big CNN viewership in Japan! That is why the Japanese people are not well informed whether it is this whaling controversy or the Okinawan talk of secession or even real Japanese war histories. It just drive the authorities crazy when such sensitive topics are mentioned... including whaling.

  • -2

    Cortes Elijah

    Im Aussie. If you knew a bit about Australia you would realise just how much area we own. Basically anything south of us. Bring on the Navy!

  • 1

    USNinJapan2

    Cortes Elijah

    If you knew a bit about Australia you would realise just how much area we own. Basically anything south of us

    That's nice. The UK, Norway, France, and New Zealand agree with you. Now try convincing the other 45 nations that believe that Antarctica should remain unclaimed and neutral. Good luck.

  • -4

    basroil

    avigatorFeb. 02, 2013 - 01:20AM JST

    There are a lot of whales that come down to Okinawa waters, why does not Japan hunt in their own territorial waters?

    Those are humpback whales are actually endangered and even a small hunt would drive them into extinction, since there's only about 20k of them. Even whalers are smart enough to leave those alone.

    Minke whales hunted by the japanese on the other hand number near a million in the antarctic region alone, and are not considered endangered by any scientific group.

  • 2

    zichi

    Hunting minke whales on grounds of overabundance not justified

    http://news.stanford.edu/news/2010/january18/minke-whale-research-012110.html

  • 2

    Tamarama

    Im Aussie. If you knew a bit about Australia you would realise just how much area we own. Basically anything south of us. Bring on the Navy!

    Perhaps you need to do a bit more homework about what we do, and don't own. Because, there is a body of water between us and Antarctica about the size of the country itself that is not 'ours' - it's International waters. Including the Australian Antarctic Territorial Waters.

    USNinJapan2 is spot on about this.

  • 1

    SamuraiBlue

    Whales residing in warm waters are usually nursing their calves that are too small to survive the cold waters of the polar ocean. Calves needs to mature and gain blabber to withstand the cold waters. On the other side whales feed better in the cold waters because the nutrients are more abundant making it the ideal feeding grounds.

  • 0

    nigelboy

    Good job USNinJapan2

    To the anti-whalers. Please read his/her posts carefully.

  • -2

    basroil

    http://news.stanford.edu/news/2010/january18/minke-whale-research-012110.html

    Palumbi's team has been going to Japan to obtain minke meat for the last 15 years, collaborating with Oregon State University scientist Scott Baker, and has developed a network of buyers who visit fish markets throughout central Japan for them.

    Well, it looks like the whale meat is being used for scientific studies regardless of what people are saying.

  • -1

    YuriOtani

    They are breaking Australian law and should of been intercepted and boarded. It is like the drug ships the USA catches and being illegal the Aussies should use some backbone and take them. Crime conspiring to commit an illegal act in their EEZ. Board and seize the whalers and bring them into Australian ports to await trial. These vessels are not doing innocent passage. They are entering the EEZ to do passage to commit a crime.

  • -1

    USNinJapan2

    YuriOtani

    People have put a lot of time, effort and thought into the preceding posts which explain in a rational and un-emotional way why the mere presence of Japanese whaling ships is not illegal per internationa laws or Australian domestic laws. You should bother to read them before repeating the same junk others have already posted. What you are overlooking is that the mere presence of whale meat on its own cannot be illegal in the EEZ as long as it is not being caught/taken within that EEZ. It's a fact that the Japanese are not doing the whaling there so they cannot be accused of illegally removing or poaching of Australian natural resources found in their EEZ. Furthermore, whale meat may be contraband in Australia (including its territrial waters), but it is not illegal in the EEZ (which is outside territorial waters) because Australia doesn't have customs jurisdiction there. The whale meat aboard the Japanese ships are not bound for Australian ports so there is no way that Australia can boad the Japanese ships and arrest the crews in the EEZ, again where Australia has no customs jursidiction, on the basis that they are attempting to smuggle/import illegal material. The Australian government is taking legal action against Japan's research whaling in general in the International Court of Justic, which is appropriate and where they should be contesting it, but there is no action they can legally take against the Japanese whalers directly. Think about it, if there was they would have done it long ago.

  • -1

    YuriOtani

    USNinJapan2, disagree and they should of boarded the poachers and sent them to an Aussie port. They are sailing through their waters with the intent to commit crime. International law is not east and straight forward. Am sure they can delay them until the end of the season. Why do you side with Japan? Is this a bribe to them from America?

  • -1

    USNinJapan2

    YuriOtani

    They are sailing through their waters with the intent to commit crime.

    A crime according to who? You? Whaling, in the form that Japan conducts it, is not a substantiated crime (yet) by any official legal body's definition and only in the minds of those who are anti-whaling. This is precisely why Australia and New Zealand have taken Japan to the International Court of Justice, because they need to have someone with international legal authority (someone other than themselves) establish that Japan's whaling in the Southern Ocean is illegal. Until a verdict is reached at the ICJ these countries have no legal right to take any action against the Japanese whalers in international waters, which the EEZ is.

    Why do you side with Japan?

    I am not siding with Japan. I am siding with reason and the rule of law, in this case UNCLOS, and the near total lack of recognition by other nations of Australia's claim to the so-called Australia Antarctic Territory and associated territorial waters. Why do you anti-whaling people insist on making this into a a black-or-white/whaling-anti-whaling issue? I am not pro-whaling by any stretch and personally lean more towards anti-whaling, but that doesn't mean that I believe nations like Australia have a right to or should take action that is not supported by existing laws. If you believe they should do what they want because they have a moral authority (which you happen to agree with) despite not having the legal authority, then you are advocating vigilantism at the national level and are no better than Sea Shepherd.

  • 0

    YuriOtani

    USNinJapan2 you do understand there is no such thing as "International Law", not really just agreement between different countries and blocks of countries. As for being anti whaling well there is no reason to kill these whale. It is not needed for research and the meat is not needed. So I am no better than Sea Sheppard, maybe I could volunteer to work for them. What you forget is the Japanese government has bribed all of the legal officials so their ruling is illegal as well.

  • -2

    USNinJapan2

    YuriOtani

    USNinJapan2 you do understand there is no such thing as "International Law", not really just agreement between different countries and blocks of countries.

    I would hope that with your JMSDF experience you know what UNCLOS is and that it is one of the few international conventions that is almost universally accepted (165 nations). It's about as close you get to an uncontested international law. Most importantly Australia is a long term signatory and know perfectly well their legal limitations in regards to their territorial waters versus EEZ. And here you are going on again about whaling and how evil and immoral it is. Why can't you understand that Australia's authority (or lack there of) in their EEZ and the applicability of UNCLOS is not suddenly changed just because whaling is involved? If Australia has the right to take action against the Japanese whaling fleet then why have they not done a thing in all these ears? A lot of expressing dissatisfaction and public and diplomatic protests for sure but not one direct, effective or physical action to stop the ships from doing what they do. Why? Can you think of even one logical reason why? I can, it's because they know they don't have the right to do what you're saying they should do. Simple as that.

  • 0

    YuriOtani

    USNinJapan2 nothing is simple with international law. I think you are missing my main point. So the Aussies protest, so what? History shows us these protests are not effective. So Japan flaunts intentional law, it has been proven the commission has been bought off. This is going to hurt Japan someplace else. Do you not see it?

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