China ships again seen in disputed waters

National Feb. 18, 2013 - 12:42PM JST ( 11 )

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11 Comments

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some14someFeb. 18, 2013 - 07:17PM JST

again? ignore or treat it like Dolphin Show few times a week !
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Tony EwFeb. 18, 2013 - 10:34PM JST

I think Japan have to see this in a different perspective. Here is why. China is doing this for domestic consumption. This is no different than Noda buying the disputed islands to prevent Ishihara takeover for domestic reasons. In both cases it is the domestic audience the governments are targeting but the side effect of course is inflammation of the Chinese people before, and now the Japanese people due to this frequent dancing around the 12 mile edge 'intrusion'.

Japan should lighten up and not make this such a big deal if it is seen the way I think. You can further use the analogy of the recent yen printing to boost Japanese economy. This is a purely domestic operation but then it affect the other side of the pond, translating into a currency war however much people want to deny it.

I don't see how China can stop making at least min sailings in order to keep her domestic audience happy. Japan just got to live with it like she expect others to live with her yen printing.
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walteryFeb. 19, 2013 - 12:59AM JST

Stay on there backs Japan. Give them an inch and they will take a mile. Keep it up!
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toanndsFeb. 19, 2013 - 12:32PM JST

Please accept the fact that at least since 1895 China has never been in control of the island. It kept silent for almost 70 years and even published some map saying that belong to Japan. China tactic is clear to both Japan and South East Asia: Changing status quo. Whatever in dispute now is mine, what are yours now I will make them become in dispute. It does not respect any international law. See their nine dash line claim over South China Sea: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nine-dotted_line. Even a kid with common sense would say it is ridiculous because it licks all neighbor coasts. However, it's amazing that Chinese people including their scholars were brainwashed to believe it is logical. I talked to many Chinese from master degree to Phd. They said Vietnam was a province of China being taken by France in the past and China will have to take it back in future. What a mind work! Everyone in this region saw China as a serious threat and US had to come back. History says it all: Tibet, Uighur, Cambodia's Khmer Rouge, North Korea, invading Vietnam in 1979, recent standoff with Philippine at their EEZ ... People are not stupid and they know quite well who is the bad guy.
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toanndsFeb. 19, 2013 - 01:36PM JST

... and land dispute with India as well. Why so many? No wonder why it is isolated now. Don't blame US/Japan. Blame your self for the bad things you do to your neighbors. Need to stress here as well: US had to come back to the region after many years of China misbehavior on South China Sea. People in this region view China as a threat and supports US back. China is the cause and US coming back is the consequence, not the other way round as the Chinese media propaganda.
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flowersFeb. 20, 2013 - 08:09AM JST

toannds, I hear people say, “silence is virtue”. There are at least four reasons why China was silent for so many years since 1895: China was weak and having internal wars, Japan incorporated the islands and changed the names of the islands without announcing it, China was a closed country even after the War, and neither Beijing nor Taipei was invited as signatories of the San Francisco Peace Treaty in 1951 from which the U.S. derived administrative rights. Now, look at the issue in a proper perspective, there were evidences that showed Japan knew that the islands were not terra nullius at the time, and various subsequent matters also proved that Japan stole the islands from China and disregarded the international post-war arrangements (Cairo Declaration and the Potsdam Proclamation). For 40 years China had kept a lid on the sovereignty dispute with Japan as the two past leaders agreed to shelve the issue, but Japan broke the agreement and even denied that the agreement ever existed. You mentioned about the international law, what international law are you talking about? China did not break any international law with regards to the nine dash line. You are right to say that many Chinese scholars truly believe all the territories in disputes do belong to China, as they believe in the truth, and it’s not because of the brainwashing. Believe me people in China are a lot smarter and they do not easily believe in the propaganda. Also, if you conduct a survey among the Chinese and Japanese living outside their respective countries, you will find that Chinese people believe in China’s ownership of those islands more than the Japanese. Only the naïve people will see China as a threat, China is served as counter-balance of power in the world. Without China you will see more chaos in the world, especially for those countries which do not follow the American ways. Territorial disputes are normal development of the country considering the long history that China has. But fear of China is created in order to paint China in a negative light, history told us that every war that China was engaged in there was always a good reason for it, unlike the US which invaded another country without a good reason and caused so much suffering for Vietnam before and now Iraq and Afghan. You can see that China has not been in a war with a single country for a long long time but how many wars that the US is engaged in now, and behind the scene Japan also has dirty hands on those wars. Nowadays, do you really think that China can invade and topple a government of another country? The fear of China is really misplaced. You are thinking that the US is coming back to Asia, but in fact it’s never left. What the US wants is to expand its sales of weapons in Asia by using China as a catalyst, but a number of countries in Asia do not really believe that the threat exists anyway. If you are smart, you would know who the bad guy really is.
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toanndsFeb. 20, 2013 - 02:22PM JST

history told us that every war that China was engaged in there was always a good reason for it Everyone would like to know the "good reason" from Chinese perspective in the invasion Vietnam 1979 with 600,000 soldiers, killing mostly civilians on the border, committing war crime over there, murdered international correspondents? Not sure if you heard about that war either :) And what is the "good reason" to support the Khmer Rouge which killed 2 millions Cambodians?

The most logic answer is: If you "good reasons" to kill dozen of millions of your own peoples in "land reform" and "culture revolution", no one in this world believe you would have any mercy to other neighbors.

China did not break any international law with regards to the nine dash line. That speak volume. Really not brainwashed or blinded? Tell it to the non-Chinese world, you would be more surprised!
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flowersFeb. 21, 2013 - 02:43AM JST

toannds, as I said there was always a good reason for China to engage in a war, please see the following link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sino-Vietnamese_War . Without China there wouldn’t be Vietnam today. You mentioned about “land reform” and “culture revolution” those were China’s internal matters, it came out with good intention but poor execution and failed outcome. They learned from their mistakes. Both Vietnam and Cambodia also had their own civil wars that resulted in the death of millions of their own people. Every country has its bad history, what you should see is whether it learns from the history and improves upon it. China came out with nothing 40 years ago at that time there were more bicycles than cars on the streets then, but look at it now a lot of things are ranked the best in the world. So, go to China and see it for yourself. By the way, I live in the non-Chinese world and most of them have much respect for the Chinese. It was a surprise to them to see China has improved so much in a very short period of time.
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toanndsFeb. 21, 2013 - 06:15PM JST

You are absolutely rite. Without China, Vietnam would be at least as same as South Korea now. Thanks to China, it copied the land reform and all kind of dictatorships. Thanks to China's weapons, Vietnamese them self killed millions each other.

China is a clear and present threat because the way it behaves in both Japan sea and South China Sea: Avoid any multiple-party talk or go to international court because they know their claim is groundless and ridiculous. Instead, it favors "bilateral talk" where it easily manage the tiny neighbors.

http://www.philstar.com/headlines/2013/02/21/911285/un-arbitration http://www.theaustralian.com.au/opinion/world-commentary/chinas-expansionism-echoes-history/story-e6frg6ux-1226581436149
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flowersFeb. 22, 2013 - 02:57AM JST

toannds, you seem to blame China for every bad thing that happened in other countries. Don’t forget Vietnam is a sovereign nation, they can think for themselves. You also didn’t mention about the weapons used by Vietnam also came from Russia and the US. So, they killed each other and you blame it on China. Don’t you think they would still kill each other even without China’s weapons? Just like what happen in the US and Japan today, they all blame China for their own problems. China is used as a scapegoat for their political gains. Why do you see China as a threat when China just wants to claim back what belongs to China in the first place? You can see the list of territorial disputes among nations in the world: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Listofterritorial_disputes. They all can be resolved peacefully, only if they talk to each other. In the case of the Philippines, China turned down the request by the Philippines to take a South China Sea territorial dispute to a United Nations arbitral tribunal because “the request is a political gesture, as taking the issue to an international arbitral tribunal will not help settle the dispute. Also, Manila's action violates the consensus in the Declaration on the Conduct of Parties in the South China Sea, adding that there are factual and legal mistakes and baseless accusations against China in the note and related notice. China signed the declaration in 2002 with members of the Association of Southeast Asian Nations, including the Philippines. The declaration states that disputes should be solved through friendly talks and negotiations by sovereign states directly concerned.” The Philippines does not follow the Agreement they signed. So, as you can see China follows the rules of conduct setforth in the Agreement and now you think China’s claim is groundless and ridiculous. By going to the UN tribunal, there is nothing to lose for the Philippines because if China sticks by the Agreement the Philippines will have their own say in everything so the favorable outcome is quite certain. Though China has the option not to abide by the tribunal decision, there would still be a political setback for China. It has nothing to do with the size of the neighbours, but China is going by the rules and policies.
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toanndsFeb. 25, 2013 - 11:45AM JST

The declaration states that disputes should be solved through friendly talks and negotiations by sovereign states >directly concerned

They all can be resolved peacefully, only if they talk to each other .

You made me laugh. The big neighbor intruded into your house, pointed the gun at you and said you should negotiate under its "friendly" gun barrel, not by kicking him out or calling police. All efforts from Philippines were "exhausted" (sic) thanks to all kinds of "friendly" Chinese ships in its EEZ (and dirty trick "friendly" banana import banning). Since the the 2002 declaration, China has been the one that harassing its neighbors most. It is trying to change the status quo before the next agreement between China and ASEAN countries completion (and it is trying to delay this as well).

Pushing its claims over 80% of the sea and licks all neighbor's coasts, Chinese's nine dash line claim is groundless and ridiculous. That only can come from a big bully. It's amazing that you and many Chinese "scholars" still can't see that from the map. Are you sure that you are not bias or brainwashed or blinded?