Chinese frigate locked radar on Japanese navy vessel

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  • 15

    CGB Spender

    Well, let's see. Will the CPC once again deny these claims as "totally unacceptable"?

  • -43

    avigator

    Japan needs to stop entering Chinese territorial waters and stop harassing Chinese patrol vessels and aircraft. Need more impartial information? Type Senkaku Martin Lohmeyer in your browser and it will return a thesis on this problem. I thought it was very objective.

  • -1

    technosphere

    Seems , China totally forgot a steel principle of " eight corners under one roof". Japan can refresh memories.

  • 20

    cabadaje

    That explains the envoy demand. I was wondering why Japan would suddenly do something so aggressive.

    This...is not good. I had hoped that China was bluffing and was simply too foolish to realize that the bluff had gone too far. Now, it seems more and more likely that China is not bluffing, and instead is too foolish to realize that it is sparking a war it cannot win.

    This is the boy who brings the gun to school. This isn't something that can be waved away anymore. This is the kind of thing that ends up killing people. Unless China capitulates, and by that I mean sends the envoy with an apology regarding the two "terrible errors" by their military, then the kid gloves come off. At that point, the likelihood of actual combat rises dramatically.

  • 17

    CGB Spender

    @avigator Sorry to rain on your parade but you are wrong! The Senkakus are Japanese and always have been!

  • 22

    SamuraiBlue

    I can only say one thing, locking on the weapon's radar cannot be dismissed as a simple mistake. One mistake and a military conflict would have started.

  • 3

    FPSRussia

    @cabadaje It's not a war that anyone can win. Even if do you go to war with China, the battle will not be simply over China's soil or over the ocean. For those of you hoping for a good show it may not be in HD miles away as you may hope. In fact, it may destroy the very things you've worked so hard to build.

    I'm betting North Korea is gonna get in on the act as a surprise guest.

  • -20

    yosun

    "A Chinese military frigate locked weapons-targeting radar on a Japanese navy vessel, Tokyo’s defence minister said Tuesday". "No mention was made in the announcement of the actions of any Chinese military vessels. It was not believed that the military ships had been in what Japan considers its waters at the time of the episode."

    I don't get it. Suppose CN military ships were not in so called JP waters, for what reason JP vessel/ helicaptors watched or followed CN military ships and thenceforth were locked by weapon-redars?

  • 2

    cabadaje

    @FPSRussia

    It's not a war that anyone can win.

    Sure it is. Once you get the enemy to the point where it can no longer mount a reasonable offensive against you, and you take over its primary center of political power, you have pretty much won the way.

    Unfortunately, nowadays there is a second half to the whole war thing, where you are expected to rebuild the country you just beat. Basically, the US would have to do to China what it did to Japan and to Iraq, while at the same time having to shoulder all the claims from the other countries that what a bite of the apple.

    Even if do you go to war with China, the battle will not be simply over China's soil or over the ocean. For those of you hoping for a good show it may not be in HD miles away as you may hope. In fact, it may destroy the very things you've worked so hard to build.

    That is a possibility, in the "Anything's possible" sense. It is extremely unlikely, in the "Yeah, we kinda of anticipated that and have measures in place" sort of way.

    I'm betting North Korea is gonna get in on the act as a surprise guest.

    That is the biggest fear. All the countries that China has pissed off recently (and in the near past), will start up their own individual actions, and some of them may not be too polite about asking for their land back. The US may well get stuck in a feeding frenzy quagmire. The Chinese by themselves are not the only threat (or even the major threat).

  • 1

    Graham DeShazo

    Does anybody know what the flight time of an anti ship missile would be @ a range of 3 km? Is there any practical counter measure for the target ship? I am only guessing but it would seem to me that the hit probability would approach 100% with catastrophic consequences for the target.

    There would seem to be a large tactical advantage to shooting first in such a situation which makes the likelihood of a mistake higher.

  • 3

    caffeinebuzz

    The stakes are much higher than just Japan and China having a old school naval rumble. This situation ha<>s the potential to engulf the entire region already simmering over past and present territorial disputes. Japan, China, the US, South/North Koreas (for starters), would be dragged into an absolute disaster by all of this. The status quo might not be that palatable, but it sure as hell beats what is looking likely in the near future.

  • 10

    SamuraiBlue

    Graham DeShazo

    It depends on how fast the missile is traveling but usually travels between Mach 1~2. So it will reach it's target around 4.5 to 9 seconds.

    When the crew heard the warning siren in CIC everyone was probably yelling getting ready for impact while others were yell for instruction on rule of engagement. Probably all in their minds they thought if they will live the next few minutes.

    That is how serious this incident is.

  • 14

    tideofiron

    Actually, a radar acquisition and lock is indeed considered an act of war by many countries, including the US. I well remember during the 90s that the Americans would destroy Iraqi radar sites that attempted to lock on to American fighter jets patrolling the No-Fly Zone.

  • 4

    Cortes Elijah

    Fingers crossed. We all loose if there is a war.

  • 14

    Surf O'Holic

    @yosun,

    What you fail to understand is that even if both ships were in international waters, locking onto another countries ship or aircraft with radar systems(fire control ) is considered an act of war by international standards.

  • 11

    JoeBigs

    The PRC is the greatest threat to world peace.

    It is time to end this paper tigers belligerent threats.

    First thing Japan must do is remove Article 9 from the Constitution and allow it's ships to defend themselves from these aggressive attacks.

    Time for diplomacy is quickly coming to an end.

    Let us just remember one thing, the PRC is one good push away from a civil war.

  • 2

    neobios

    Cold war is more of psychological rather than physical confrontation especially between economic powers like China and Japan, both are well refrained from making the first attack. It can only end in three ways, conversion into a hot war, dialogue or financial collapse and I think for the current situation it can only end with an economic crisis on either side as both are smart enough to know the consequences of conventional warfare while talks seems to be fruitless as we know it.

    What both countries need to do right now is to fully prepare the impact of the collapse on either side which is more likely to happen than a direct war.

  • -2

    tokyo-star

    Haven't you played BF3? If you hear the beeping sound after the lock sound, launch flares. Unless you are the gunner with a cr@p pilot, then you are toast. Not sure if it's 3km. Some of you guys need to hop online for a frag sesh, PM me your IGN.

  • 5

    OssanAmerica

    Really about time the world slapped China down before they stat WWIII.

  • 13

    Cortes Elijah

    Stop the crap China!

  • 8

    nandakandamanda

    yosun, China shadows and observes Japanese ships and Japan shadows and observes Chinese ships all the time. They play cat and mouse with each other. Chinese planes force Japanese planes to scramble almost every day, but I do not think Japanese planes force any Chinese planes to scramble.

    What is new here, yosun, is a Chinese ship locking its missile battery attack sights onto a foreign ship or aircraft.

    They may have thought it was a very clever and funny thing to do, but that would not be how the Japanese would see it.

  • 2

    mikihouse

    time to change the constitution...its an act of war

  • -1

    PnoyMafia7thFLT

    Fact is there will be war in the pacific. Old man popops was assigned during the korean war, it was the chinese army who was involved during that time. I will not be surpised at all nokors and prc will initiate the first shot of icbms. Cut off that dragons head.

  • 2

    BernieK

    China is bluffing. China has thrived because it devotes itself to economic development while letting the United States police the region and the world.

  • 5

    Hikozaemon

    China is testing Japanese defenses and reactions - and Japan is basically unable to respond to these tests.

    Today, coastguard ships spent 14 hours around the islands, the longest yet. Chinese navy is starting to more aggressively test and challenge the JMDF, and planes keep testing the resolve of Japan to respond.

    The point of all this is China is looking to creep in to exercise control, confirming carefully at each point that they can get away with doing a new act, and that Japan will not respond. You know South Korea would respond with missiles if a coastguard vessel got near Takeshima, just as China would respond with force if Japan tried any of these steps against Chinese territory.

    It is a slow invasion - something unaccountable dictatorships have the luxury of time to enable them to do. One day Japan is going to wake up and it will be Japan knocking on the door of these islands, rather than the other way around. Without direct intervention, with assistance by the US, China isn't going to stop escalating until it has taken control of them from Japan.

    And frankly, I don't think the US wants to know about this. And if Japan reacts, as it is being provoked to do, PRC has a news story to distract the disgruntled 600 million affected by the unprecedented government failure to control air pollution and focus anger on Japan instead once again. It's all win-win for China.

  • 13

    Tamarama

    Unbelievable. China have lost it. Extraordinary thing to do to a neighbor and country who they profess to desire a peaceful relationship with. It has taken no time for them to become beligerent and vengeful rogue country since becoming a bona fide economic superpower. China don't want peace.

  • -2

    Ewan Huzarmy

    Hang on a minute ! Is this the same minister that supposedly said that 'we will fire warning shots next time' a week or two ago ? It later turned out that he was misquoted by the Asahi shimbun.

    Is someone trying to cause contoversey again ? ( no, I don't mean China) I mean some right-winger who wants the populace to panic and be indignant, thus helping with Mr Abe's agenda. What agenda ?, I hear you ask ...... the one to change the constitution and tool up, relive the spirit of '39 of course.

  • 3

    Hikozaemon

    Avigator - the conclusion to the thesis points out China using military force in any way to resolve the conflict is dumb, and that sharing the resources around the islands (another thing China stopped doing years ago after the original agreement to jointly drill for gas).

    The author rules out pretty much all solutions as unfeasible. Which leaves the islands under status quo Japanese control.

  • 2

    xyberc

    The reality is ... it is an act of war when a weaker country locks its targeting radars on a stronger country's vessels, but not the other way round.

  • 2

    SamuraiBlue

    xyberc

    In Japan's case under article 9 of the constitution it doesn't matter if they are the weakere or stronger, to respond the adversary is required to shot first so act of self defence can be applied.

    That is what PLAN was testing. It takes guts of steel since the one on the recieving end does not know if it is a bluff or are they going to actually fire in which they are left only seconds to respond.

  • -10

    mano2012

    The problem is Japan. Until Japan gov acknowledges that the world can see everything that Japan is on the wrong side of the boat! .. Japan is in trouble.

    --

    Here is what you SHOULD ponder:

    Point #1

    --> Ironically, the Tanaka's statement in this meeting has been deleted by the Japanese Ministry of Foreign Affairs. Why?" WHY???

    "Unilateral Decisions by Japan-V/The Diaoyu/Senkaku-XXI

    "In 1972, Zhou Bin, now 77-years-old, was an interpreter in the meeting between Zhou Enlai and Tanaka Kakuei as both countries was trying to normalize their relationship. He served the official interpreter for the Chinese government in 40 years ago. As the issue of the Diaoyu/Senkaku was broached, according to Zhou Bin, the Chinese Premier Zhou did not “want to talk about it this time… It’s no good to talk about this now (Kyodo News 29 September 2012; Phoenix News 29 September 2012).” “Premier Zhou suggested solving (the territorial dispute) in future intergovernmental peace negotiations, and Prime Minister Tanaka agreed (Kyodo News 29 September 2012).” Ironically, the Tanaka's statement in this meeting has been deleted by the Japanese Ministry of Foreign Affairs. Why?"

    http://chinajapanusrelations.blogspot.ca/2012/10/unilateral-decisions-by-japan-vthe.html

    Point #2:

    a. Japan's FM went to Europe to garner support and they rejected him!

    ""Japan fails to win support on Senkakus issue from Europe's 'Big 3' October 20, 2012

    THE ASAHI SHIMBUN

    Despite his announcements of achievements, Foreign Minister Koichiro Genba failed to win clear support from France, Britain and Germany for Japan’s sovereignty claims to the Senkaku Islands during his European tour."

    b. Recently, these past weeks, Abe went to S.E. Asia. There were 2 points in his mission: - economic issues - trying to get some "support" in regards to Diaoyu... but the result is: ZERO for Abe.


    Enjoy the above :))

  • -2

    Fadamor

    Not sure what the current policy is internationally, but back when I was in the navy ('78-'84) we'd do that all the time. Tankers, freighters, Soviet Intel ships, whatever. It gives the Fire Control Techs practice on locking and holding onto the target. As long as the GUNS weren't tracking along with the FC radar, nobody really cared.

  • 3

    mamix

    China has invaded not only Japan but everycountry around it, Tibet, Uighur, Viet Nam, Philippines, Indonesia. In 1880-1940 some Japanese lived in one of Senkaku Islands. They run a plant for producing dried bonito fishes. People around the world must know which side's story is right.

  • -3

    maglev101

    Unfortunately, nowadays there is a second half to the whole war thing, where you are expected to rebuild the country you just beat. Basically, the US would have to do to China what it did to Japan and to Iraq, while at the same time having to shoulder all the claims from the other countries that what a bite of the apple.

    oh please...that's assuming the u.s. will prevail. it can't even gain decided victories against relative lightweights like vietnam, afghanistan, iraq.

  • 4

    SamuraiBlue

    Fadamor

    These days I believe VLS is the norm so just by lighting up the target radar is a serious sign.

    If PRC had launched you can say bye-bye to article 9 since it would have been thrown out of the window recieving a super majority at a referendum.

  • -4

    maglev101

    @cabadaje - u.s. military ain't all that. e.g. in ww2, most of the damage done against germany were by the russians. the best german units were fighting in the eastern front.

  • -11

    bao.2ye

    Obviously Japan vessels illegally entered China's water territory, the Diaoyu Island. China's battle ship shall fire.

  • 1

    nigelboy

    Ironically, the Tanaka's statement in this meeting has been deleted by the Japanese Ministry of Foreign Affairs. Why?"

    Because it's not an official joint statement but rather a sideline discussion. It's the same reason why MOF doesn't publish the conversation between Tanaka and Mao when Tanaka tried to apologize Mao for the war but instead Mao thanked him for weakening KMT which enabled the Communist to drive them out of China.

  • -7

    Tony Ew

    I see almost every poster read China's presence in the disputed waters as agression. I totally disagree! They were all civilian assets not military ships or planes!

    China is definitely laying the groundworks for ICJ. China is not attempting to provoke Japan. It is like Japan saying currency manipulation is not the main purpose but the act of QE result in lower yen value.

    Here China's purpose is laying the groundwork for ICJ sovereignty claim, not to provoke Japan as the main purpose. The ships 'intrusion' is actually China's attempt to set a track record, a pattern as evidence to show ICJ China have sovereignty. China can say 'obstacles' caused by US interference is the only reason she don't venture deeper. An ICJ judge can see this as a reasonable argument. This pattern of 'intrusion' plus China submission to UN Commission to rule on Continental Shelf extension of boundary makes Japan very worried. China's case is getting stronger and stronger so modern law is favoring China besides historical claims. This is the only reason why Japan protest so strongly against this continuous Chinese 'intrusion' plus Japan also protest China's UN Commission submission.

    "Two maritime surveillance boats had spent around 14 hours in the area, one of the longest periods they have been present, the coast guard said."

    Notice the Japanese protest was made because of the extended duration of 14 hours which give China even more proof of sovereignty and Japan is desperately trying to reduce this duration in future 'intrusions' to weaken China's case.

    When will China submit her case to ICJ? I suspect right after the UN Commision ruling on the Continental Shelf around July/August. Let's hope war don't break out in the meantime!

    So I think China is acting in a very civil manner!

  • 2

    nigelboy

    Tony EW

    As to China's recent submission to Commission on the Limits of the Continental Shelf, the commission itself does not decide territorial disputes nor does the decisions handed down effect the soverignty issue of Senkaku. As to disputes involving CLCS, it's heard by International Tribunal for the Law of Sea (ITLOS). In this matter, there was a case last year between Myanmar and Bangladesh in regards to the maritime boundary in the Bay of Bengal but the court pretty much decided that the equidistant line would be observed when there is an overlapping EEZ. Hence, it's pretty much a foregone conclusion that China won't be able to exercize their rights beyond the median line. (i.e. status quo where equidistant line is observed between mainland China and Senkaku) Hence, Japan objected to China's CLCS application simply because their extension request infringes on Japan's EEZ. Therefore, under UNCLOS, when such request overlaps as in this case, the law specifically states that you need a official consent from the other party (meaning Japan which China has not gotten a permission).

    In other words, China has it backwards in that they first must establish the soverignty of Senkaku which involves ICJ.

  • 12

    YuriOtani

    Locking weapons radar on another ship is like pointing a loaded gun at someone. I say the Peoples Republic was hoping the Japanese ship would do the same and fire first. This was a hostile act.

  • -8

    AlexNoaburg

    This story seems very thin to me. There's no reaction quote from the Chinese side and in the article it states that the Japanese side has already locked radar in January but this was not reported on (which illustrates a pro-Japan bias). It appears the media is propagandizing (playing up, or even in this case, manufacturing news) in order to set the table for an attack on China (speculation, but perhaps this is why Abe is seeking to change the Japanese constitution in order to strike first for "self defense" since China won't.)

  • -4

    yosun

    @nandakandamanda & Surf O'Holic: What you fail to understand is that even if both ships were in international waters, locking onto another countries ship or aircraft with radar systems(fire control ) is considered an act of war by international standards.

    I think the same as :

    FadamorFeb. 05, 2013 - 11:46PM JST : Not sure what the current policy is internationally, but back when I was in the navy ('78-'84) we'd do that all the time. Tankers, freighters, Soviet Intel ships, whatever. It gives the Fire Control Techs practice on locking and holding onto the target. As long as the GUNS weren't tracking along with the FC radar, nobody really cared.

    >@OssanAmericaFeb. 05, 2013 - 10:24PM JST : Really about time the world slapped China down before they stat WWIII.

    So China is so stupid! suppose I were china, I don't need to send any ships/ planes..., I simply dump 40% US dollars, that's about 1 trillion, then the US would be in big trouble! why china need to start WWIII? probably the relationship between us and china is better than you think?

  • -3

    AlexNoaburg

    Sadly, I think the propaganda is working. There is warmongering in this thread, calling the Chinese "dogs," to "cut off the dragon's head," etc. Talk to some Chinese people, most are the same as most Japanese on the street. They want to work, support their families. Most don't want war. Don't let the media make any of you think that war over a rock is acceptable. It will cost lives and jobs.

  • 8

    OssanAmerica

    AlexNoaberg, there is zero chance of Japan attacking anyone with or without a revised constitution. The entire world considers China to be the only one who is escalating the dispute and may actually start a war.

  • 9

    OssanAmerica

    Tony EwFeb. 06, 2013 - 12:08AM JST I see almost every poster read China's presence in the disputed waters as agression. I totally disagree! They were all >civilian assets not military ships or planes!

    They are all Chinese government controlled ships. Not civilian assets.

    "The China Marine Surveillance (CMS; Chinese: 中国海监) was created on 19 October 1998 as a paramilitary maritime law enforcement agency under the auspices of the PRC's State Oceanic Administration. "

  • 0

    Fadamor

    Fadamor

    These days I believe VLS is the norm so just by lighting up the target radar is a serious sign.

    The VLS anti ship missiles we have are Harpoon. They don't need a fire control lock-on to be used. You just get a bearing using the surface search radar and tell the missile to head that way a bit before turning on its on-board radar. If you're worried about a VLS launch, the fire control radar is the last thing you should be watching. The surface FC radar is mainly used for the turreted gun(s).

  • 3

    nigelboy

    Japan's note verbale in regards to China's recent application to CLCS

    http://www.un.org/Depts/los/clcs_new/submissions_files/chn63_12/jpn_re_chn_28_12_2012.pdf

    It cites Article 83 of UNCLOS and paragraph 5(a) of Annex I of Rules and Procedures of CLCS. (i.e. within International Law)

    China's response.

    http://www.un.org/Depts/los/clcs_new/submissions_files/chn63_12/chn_re_jpn07_01_2013e.pdf

    Cites "the Law of the People's Republic of China on the Territorial Sea and the Contiguos Zone". (domestic law)

    China's case is getting stronger and stronger so modern law is favoring China besides historical claims.

    Simply amazing...

  • 2

    Crazedinjapan

    I had barely wriitten my last comment with the previous article then this comes up. Just like I hypothesized on. China is testing it's abilities and Japan's response to it. Is china ignorant enough to think that the USA will just sit idly nearby and do nothing ?? They are sitting by weathered and season with a multitude of patience and experience watching this child with a new water pistol. Anyone hear on the latest concerning lasers being mounted on the USA vessels or is it still all hush hush ? Last I heard their capabilities were 10miles with a duration of 1 sec or so to penetrate any missile.

    They China may not like the hand they are forcing out of Japan. History has shown that stubbornness is one of the Japanese greatest traits ....keep kicking the dog and it will eventually turn around and chew your leg off !!

    Maybe it's time for the USA to step up and say step back..

  • -9

    mamix

    History repeats itself. China must have provoked and harassed Japan militarily also before the WW2. It would be too much for Japan to bear and dragged into the war. Japan got beaten by provocations and propaganda efforts by China.

  • -1

    T-Mack

    When I was I in the Navy, we did this all the time...lock on Radar, lock on Sonar, It's a prosecution technique, used to harrass other vessel's. We would actively "ping" on sub's and ship's..It's like a huge hammer of sound hitting your ship, really ring's the ear's on Submarines...It's used to chase vessel's out of territorial water's...No weapons, just alot of noise...!!!

  • -12

    Tony Ew

    @nigelboy

    I know ICJ means nothing in terms of enforcement it's opinion. Rather it is China's approach to embarrass Japan if Japan lose. That is where the stake is: Public Opinion and Japan is very afraid of being exposed as an illegimate owner of the disputed islands.

  • 4

    Sentiments

    Its still politics. China raised the level by carefully keeping outside of Japanese waters but still showing strength by targeting. Nothing special if you consider US and Soviet games during the cold war. By this action the Japanese navy are invited to follow their example. However if Japan follows they will be blamed for targeting Chines vessels in Chines waters, thus it could be interpreted as an aggression. Not to mention that Japan has to consider and balance its acts in regard of its constitution. Japan needs to first raise the mass medial buzz around this and internationally establish the first act of targeting on the Chinese and only then start to fine tune targeting exercises on Chinese ships. Its likely that the Chinese will continue to test Japanese resolve and, I guess, get utterly disappointed when they dont back down. China will be forced to show its true face, maybe an upcoming imperialist power.

  • 4

    nigelboy

    I know ICJ means nothing in terms of enforcement it's opinion. Rather it is China's approach to embarrass Japan if Japan lose. That is where the stake is: Public Opinion and Japan is very afraid of being exposed as an illegimate owner of the disputed islands

    You're not reading. As I stated in another article, Japan is a signatory to a declaration in which they agreed to abide by the jurisdiction and decision of the ICJ on any disputes in which the other party signed the same obligation. The mere fact that China is not a signatory is in of itself an "embarassment" for they are basically announcing to the whole word that they are above the international law and the U.N. body that exercize them. In other words, they are "thugs".

    China has no case. There is a reason why China hasn't even dare use the word "ICJ" in this dispute. Their silence speaks volumes.

    But you're right about "public opinion" in that there are people like you among the population who for some unknown reason believe that the recent submission of CLCS by China is a prelude to their subsequent submission to ICJ when the reality is that their application is in of itself a joke to begin with. When there is an overlapping EEZ, this is what civilized countries do .

    http://www.un.org/Depts/los/clcs_new/submissions_files/jpn08/usa_22dec08.pdf

    http://www.un.org/Depts/los/clcs_new/submissions_files/jpn08/plw_15jun09.pdf

  • -6

    Saketown

    This getting Good! Bring it On Commies! Radar Lock...Weapons Lock...Missiles Hot...Take Your Best Shot!

  • 5

    Betraythetrust!

    War is not fun, it is not a video game. People die, fathers,brothers, sons and daughters. War has been sanitised, we no longer see the gore of war on the news anymore, it is censored so we do not oppose the military adventures of the elite.

    Anyway, there will be no conflict between these countries, that is in the interest of nobody. The saber rattling and name calling is there to get support from the masses and it is working. People pick sides with no concern for the lives lost and destruction caused. The Japanese and Chinese governments are both pushing this nonsense to distract from the internal problems of their countries and it is working.

  • -8

    Owain T. Yamanaka

    All this for some empty islands?

  • 7

    OssanAmerica

    Owain T. YamanakaFeb. 06, 2013 - 02:54AM JST All this for some empty islands?

    No, it's a very valuable piece of real estate if you happen to have a Navy that's keen on gaining unfettered access to the Pacific. Ads early as 2003 the Chinese PLANavy declared their goal of breaking the "first island chain". What we are witnessing today in the East and South China Seas is China attempting to fulfill hat goal.

  • -5

    Tony Ew

    @nigelboy

    nigelboyFeb. 06, 2013 - 02:18AM JST I know ICJ means nothing in terms of enforcement it's opinion. Rather it is China's approach to embarrass Japan if Japan lose. That is where the stake is: Public Opinion and Japan is very afraid of being exposed as an illegimate owner of the disputed islands You're not reading. As I stated in another article, Japan is a signatory to a declaration in which they agreed to abide by the jurisdiction and decision of the ICJ on any disputes in which the other party signed the same obligation. The mere fact that China is not a signatory is in of itself an "embarassment" for they are basically announcing to the whole word that they are above the international law and the U.N. body that exercize them. In other words, they are "thugs". China has no case. There is a reason why China hasn't even dare use the word "ICJ" in this dispute. Their silence speaks volumes. But you're right about "public opinion" in that there are people like you among the population who for some unknown reason believe that the recent submission of CLCS by China is a prelude to their subsequent submission to ICJ when the reality is that their application is in of itself a joke to begin with. When there is an overlapping EEZ, this is what civilized countries do .

    You got it all wrong! Japan in fact is very worried about this CIVIL legal process moving forward. When Japan keep saying " There is Nothing To Negotiate" what is the world suppose to think? My one vote says Japan is afraid of being exposed an an illegal owner of Senkaku/Diaoyu islands, simple as that! Somebody who is confident will dare to bring this matter to a conclusion through arbitration or ICJ rulling but all along Japan says "Nothing To Negotiate" So Japan got what she deserve. China have to do something to give evidence of sovereign claim under modern law as Japan so cleverly want to downplay China's historical claims.

    China is not a 'thug' as you opine. China uses civil assets whereas Japan uses military assets in the dispute, like the EIGHT F15 chasing a small propeller civilian plane.! That's thuggish to me! Even the big Japanese coast guard ships hosing Taiwanese ships recently looks pretty offensive to the international community. See how much bigger the Japanese ships are, trying to drown the much smaller ships that might just sink!

    Even the ICJ ruling is not a sure thing to favor China because of US influence in the courts. Looks like 60/40 stacked against China under the current composition of the judges.

    Why don't China submit to ICJ now or earlier? Because the UN Commission on Continental Shelf ruling have not yet being made. China also need time to map up the Continental Shelf, so there is a good reason why China did not bring the case forward earlier.

    Japan submission to ICJ ruling comes with RESERVATION. This is a code word for 'if we don't agree, we will find a way to wiggle out, like the Diet voting against ICJ ruling' if it is against Japan. See, this shows Japan is not honest and just claim to be willing to submit for ICJ ruling but just for show! Anyway Public Opinion will see through all these tricks AND if China setup Japan for a war later, the world will be much more sympathetic to China than to Japan.

  • 8

    OssanAmerica

    Tony EwFeb. 06, 2013 - 04:03AM JST

    You got it all wrong! Japan in fact is very worried about this CIVIL legal process moving forward.

    No Tony Ew, you got it all wrong. Come back when China files a claim at the ICJ.

    China is not a 'thug' as you opine. China uses civil assets whereas Japan uses military assets in the dispute,

    Tony Ew, you don't read what other posters write do you? China is NOT using civilian planes and ships. China is avoiding taking the matter to court and choosing to send government ships and planes into the area. I would say China is a thug.

    Even the ICJ ruling is not a sure thing to favor China because of US influence in the courts. Looks like 60/40 stacked >against China under the current composition of the judges.

    Famous excuse used by countries that don't have a claim legitimate enough to take to the ICJ.

    Why don't China submit to ICJ now or earlier? Because the UN Commission on Continental Shelf ruling have not yet >being made. China also need time to map up the Continental Shelf, so there is a good reason why China did not bring >the case forward earlier.

    China will never bring the case to the ICJ. Not only will they lose flat out, but they will open themselves up top claims from all the other countries that it is trying to steal territory from.

    Japan submission to ICJ ruling comes with RESERVATION.

    Same as all countries that have submitted to ICJ ruling. Like the United Sates, Australia and EU countries. Come back when China decides to become a civilized nation and submit to the ICJ.

    See, this shows Japan is not honest and just claim to be willing to submit for ICJ ruling but just for show! Anyway >Public Opinion will see through all these tricks AND if China setup Japan for a war later, the world will be much more >sympathetic to China than to Japan.

    The entire world sees China as being aggressive, dishonest, rude, and belligerent. The only thing worse than a fascist country is someone who actually supports it.

  • 5

    nigelboy

    Tony Ew

    I belive myself and several others have already countered your repeated arguments but here it goes.

    You ask how the world would think when Japan's stance on Senkaku is that there is "no dispute". My answer is "of course they would". That's a universal response of any country that has physical possession of the territory. This is Korea's position on Takeshima as well. So what does Japan do? They initiate the process of taking the dispute over the ICJ (third time). You see Tony, when both parties aren't giving an inch, it basically means that there is "nothing to negotiate".
    So I ask again, could you tell us why China has not even dared to mention the word ICJ regarding this dispute? For me, looking at their "historical" evidence and using a little common sense, China has no case.

    As to the use of China using civil assets, the boats as well as the small propeller airplane are under China Marine Surveilance (中国海监) who have repeatedly infringed upon Japan's territorial waters.

    Getting back to ICJ, there already exists a Chinese judge and since U.S. withdrew themselves from the compulsory jurisdiciton, I don't now if they have any influence on ICJ. You often hear this argument a lot usually from people who are ready to make excuses on why China doesn't submit herself to ICJ.

    Also, like I stated numerous times, CLCS ruling have no bearing on the territorial soverignty. Are you seriously expecting a favorable decision for China when I already gave you the precedents as well as the proper protocol and procedure needed when there is an overlapping claim? " So no. CLCS committee would most likely not even address the request (ocean territory that infringes upon Japan) until proper agreement is in place. (See Palau and U.S. for Japan's application which I linked before)

    And finally, I don't know where you got this "ICJ ruling comes with Reservation" which you have repeated on other articles. Perhaps it's finally time that you enlighten us with evidence.

  • 3

    Kobuta Chan

    It looks like Communist Chinese Military is itchy for using new technology received via Communist Chinese Government's Cyber Spy network. I believe war is not far away from now. My Chinese friend asked me "do you think Japan and China will go to war"? Because, he had read about going to war with Japan in Communist’s mouth piece News paper. Communist Chinese leaders are very confident about victory over Japanese if they go to war with Japan. They don't calculate costs for Communist nation. They must understand every war has price tab on it and damage country economy. No one will win. Communist leaders must think about how they will feed 1.6 billions peoples in the future if they go war with Japan and US. It will be suicide mission for Communist leaders. Communist Chinese leaders must stop childish behavior at once.

  • 8

    Frungy

    When is it acceptable for a civilian to shoot someone in self-defence? When the person walks into your home and announces their intent to rob you? When they point a gun at you? When they actually fire?

    I'm using this analogy because it puts the current situation in context. China has already announced its intention to steal the islands. This latest incident is the military equivalent of pointing a gun at someone. Will Japan wait for them to actually fire?

    I think Japan has been reasonable up until this point, and has ignored as much as can be ignored, but when someone actually points a gun at you it is just a matter of time before they pull the trigger. The next time this happens Japan should respond with a weapons lock and then fire with no hesitation if they are in Japanese territorial waters. Let China wail as much as it likes, but Japan has a right to defend itself, and shouldn't have to wait until Japanese citizens die before exercising that right. China has broken so many international laws that it has absolutely no defence, and all anyone will be able to say afterwards was, "What took you so long Japan?".

  • 0

    RaidenX

    It appears the situation is critical yet persistence seems odd because under a signed treaty any foreign conflict on japan could trigger the cooperation and the intervention of the United States Military yet the chinese appear reluctant to appease furthermore this raises the question if china is prepared to confront and triumph over two technologically advanced militaries.

  • -1

    Fugacis

    This has gone far enough. This was an irresponsible and dangerous act by China. Coupled with Abe's increasingly bellicose stance, we're edging closer and closer to armed conflict; something I don't want to see and which would be bad for everyone.

    This is goading and a threat. However, Japan needs to stay the course; if there is to be a conflict, let China be the one that fires the first shot, and let Japan react proportionately. This way Japan can be assured to have the moral high ground. Don't turn this into a war first.

    This has got to stop.

  • 2

    Fadamor

    This latest incident is the military equivalent of pointing a gun at someone. Will Japan wait for them to actually fire?

    No, the military equivalent of pointing a gun at someone/something is... pointing a gun at someone/something. "Painting" a ship with FC radar is the military equivalent of saying, "I know exactly how far away you are and your course and speed, so I have a firing solution if it's needed." Considering how often it happens in the real world, we'd have obliterated the human race decades ago if the mere painting of a target was grounds for starting a war. Please don't kill us off yet with your uninformed outrage.

  • 0

    RaidenX

    Surely this is a bluff rather than an intimidation but still japan must alter the pacifist constitution and build nuclear weapons to gain an edge over china.

  • 6

    OssanAmerica

    While painting a target was done all throughout the cold war and still carried out today, it is undeniable that China doing so now at this time in this location is another act of escalating the conflict. Japan did the right thing by making it public so that the world will see how China continues to enflame this issue and inch closer to actual combat,

  • -4

    sfjp330

    nigelboy Feb. 06, 2013 - 02:18AM JST China has no case. There is a reason why China hasn't even dare use the word "ICJ" in this dispute. Their silence speaks volumes.

    If Japan has definite ownership without doubt, why did Japan offer to explore resources in a joint agreement proposal in 2008 with China? Sounds like a big concession by Japan if you ask me. If Japan owns it, they didn't need to ask China. It shows how weak Japan's claim is and they know it. You are fully aware that solution to the competing claims emerged in 2008, when Japan and China reached a principled consensus on joint development of an area that includes the potentially gas-rich Chunxiao/Shirakaba field. However, the 2010 ramming of Japanese Coast Guard cutters by a Chinese fishing boat and the subsequent arrest of the Chinese captain by the Japanese, have halted all movement toward formalizing the 2008 consensus. And your saying China has no case?

  • -2

    michikokada

    I like this, it's more fun than video games, and/or chess for that matter : D China is just learning from Japan: I want to talk but on the other hand I have my entire force aiming at you. Locking target but not firing must be chouette and even cooler when you know the target detected that and got furious, again I like this :) poor embassadors of both sides, sympathy!

  • -5

    Chin4Sailor

    A Chinese military frigate locked weapons-targeting radar on a Japanese navy vessel

    Good for them... You mean everything you went through Japan, watching all your people suffer because of your Asian aggression, and you still didn't take away any lessons that war is a very very bad thing for japan. After everything you perpetration on Chinese, and the millions and millions of others, you should be dealing with them, especially them, like you're walking on eggs.

  • 6

    OssanAmerica

    Chin4SailorFeb. 06, 2013 - 07:34AM JST "A Chinese military frigate locked weapons-targeting radar on a Japanese navy vessel" Good for them... You mean everything you went through Japan, watching all your people suffer because of your Asian >aggression, and you still didn't take away any lessons that war is a very very bad thing for japan.

    I guess you missed the part that says the CHINESE frigate locked on the Japanese vessel. Seems like China wants to copy Imperial Japan of 70 years ago.

    After everything you >perpetration on Chinese, and the millions and millions of others, you should be dealing with >them, especially them, like >you're walking on eggs.

    As if 70 year old history justifies China's plan to take over Asia. Those millions of others are now supporting Japan because they are threatened by China.

  • 1

    nigelboy

    If Japan has definite ownership without doubt, why did Japan offer to explore resources in a joint agreement proposal in 2008 with China? Sounds like a big concession by Japan if you ask me. If Japan owns it, they didn't need to ask China. It shows how weak Japan's claim is and they know it. You are fully aware that solution to the competing claims emerged in 2008, when Japan and China reached a principled consensus on joint development of an area that includes the potentially gas-rich Chunxiao/Shirakaba field. However, the 2010 ramming of Japanese Coast Guard cutters by a Chinese fishing boat and the subsequent arrest of the Chinese captain by the Japanese, have halted all movement toward formalizing the 2008 consensus. And your saying China has no case?

    ??? China's gas fields are on China side of the equidistant line. Secondly, Unocal, Shell as well as Japanese companies determined that the uncertainty in reserve amount and the high cost associated with transporting to Japanese mainland made the project not worthwhile. So yeah. If China wants to drill on the Japanese side of the equidistant line, they better have a joint agreement in place where China pays Japan.

  • -6

    Tony Ew

    @nigelboyFeb. 06, 2013 - 04:58AM JST

    Tony Ew So what does Japan do? They initiate the process of taking the dispute over the ICJ (third time). You see Tony, when both parties aren't giving an inch, it basically means that there is "nothing to negotiate". So I ask again, could you tell us why China has not even dared to mention the word ICJ regarding this dispute? For me, looking at their "historical" evidence and using a little common sense, China has no case.

    Didn't you hear me? China IS COMING to the ICJ! I had already explained the 'modern law' element in China strategy coupled with historical evidence. Time is needed to map out the Continental Shelf. I like to know why Japan object to China asking the UN Commission to review.

    As to the use of China using civil assets, the boats as well as the small propeller airplane are under China Marine Surveilance (中国海监) who have repeatedly infringed upon Japan's territorial waters.

    See what I mean? ... Japan's territorial waters? No sir! You EARN it when the world recognize it. Why is it that Japan's foreign minister went to Europe late last year and came back empty handed? Did any European say 'YES, Japan is the rightful owner of Senkaku/Diaoyu Islands' ? I can hear a pin drop. The silence is deafening!

    Getting back to ICJ, there already exists a Chinese judge and since U.S. withdrew themselves from the compulsory jurisdiciton, I don't now if they have any influence on ICJ. You often hear this argument a lot usually from people who are ready to make excuses on why China doesn't submit herself to ICJ.

    Whether you like it or not, the elephant in the room is always part of other people's deliberations. You see this all the time. US election, the China Card, current island disputes with Japan, Vietnam, Philippines, the US elephant in the room. People should just accept reality and not be naive. We cannot wish US influence away! A cursory read of ICJ judges shows a 7 pro US vs 6 pro China composition. http://www.icj-cij.org/court/index.php?p1=1&p2=2&p3=1

    Also, like I stated numerous times, CLCS ruling have no bearing on the territorial soverignty.

    I understand that. I stated this before! Now the whole game is Public Relations so that ONE of the two, either Japan or China will end up looking like a PARIAH if she was found not entitled to the disputed islands AND still want to hang on to them! I am sure China have enough honor and integrity to accept the rulings. Honestly I say if China help Taiwan to have standing in ICJ, Taiwan will be the real legitimate owner of the Senkaku/Diaoyou Islands because Taiwan have the Trump Card: Taiwan IS NEARER to the disputed islands than Japan or China! As I said the ONLY reason US gave administer rights to Japan was the fear of China taking over Taiwan and build a military base there, including a submarine base, so very very near to Okinawa US bases! If US had given the islands to Taiwan we would not be discussing this today.

    And finally, I don't know where you got this "ICJ ruling comes with Reservation" which you have repeated on other articles. Perhaps it's finally time that you enlighten us with evidence.

    http://chartsbin.com/view/1645 shows the type of ICJ memberships. As you can see Japan Australia Canada, all these countries with a 'guilt problem' add 'with reservations' to their membership type. US knows she will be sued left and right, so she wisely withdraw completely from ICJ ! China coming on board pretty soon!

  • -1

    Nessie

    Once you get the enemy to the point where it can no longer mount a reasonable offensive against you, and you take over its primary center of political power, you have pretty much won the way.

    And after that point, you have a huge guerilla war, plus a domestic terrorism resistance movement in Japan. Japan would win the war but lose the "peace". And if China went nuclear, Japan would not even win the war.

  • -4

    sfjp330

    nigelboy Feb. 06, 2013 - 08:25AM JST??? China's gas fields are on China side of the equidistant line. So yeah. If China wants to drill on the Japanese side of the equidistant line, they better have a joint agreement in place where China pays Japan.

    ????? They are drilling on the Chinese side, so why would China need agreement? So why would Japan ask to share seismic data which China refused? China has been producing gas since 2006 from a Chunxiao, located nearby a median line between a dual nations that Japan has due but China has rejected as a nautical boundary.

  • 1

    sfjp330

    Nessie Feb. 06, 2013 - 08:37AM JST And if China went nuclear, Japan would not even win the war.

    And if U.S. gets involved in Japan's defense in a event that China drops a nuclear in Japan, there will be no China left. Of course, the bottom line for those Americans convinced that nuclear weapons safeguard them from a Chinese nuclear attack might be that the U.S. nuclear arsenal is far greater than its Chinese counterpart. Today, it is estimated that the U.S. possesses over 5,000 nuclear warheads, while the Chinese has a total inventory of roughly 300. Moreover, only about 40 of these Chinese nuclear weapons can reach the U.S. Surely the U.S. would "win" any nuclear war with China.

  • 5

    nigelboy

    Tony Ew

    I just wish you read my post carefully. When there is an overlapping EEZ, you first need to ask the adjacent country for permission pursuant to UNCLOS and Rules and Procedures under CLCS. To simplify, China would not need this if and only if the Senkaku island did not exist. It's really a simple concept.

    Secondly, as with most territorial disputes, many nations that are not party to remain neutral for it doesn't matter what they think for most nations don't even have a clue as to where Senkaku is and what the dispute is about. But as long as Japan controls the islands, it's still deemed as territorial waters and I see no other nation other than China complain when Japan exercises their control.

    And as for Taiwan's claim, I seriously doubt China would entertain the idea of having their representative make a presence in the U.N. That's like China admitting that it's a separate state. Think please.

    As for the "reservation", I just wish you read the actual text.

    http://www.icj-cij.org/jurisdiction/index.php?p1=5&p2=1&p3=3&code=JP

  • -9

    Tony Ew

    @OssanAmericaFeb. 06, 2013 - 04:26AM JST

    No Tony Ew, you got it all wrong. Come back when China files a claim at the ICJ.

    It will be Headline News! Just watch for it in the N Y Times.

    Tony Ew, you don't read what other posters write do you? China is NOT using civilian planes and ships. China is avoiding taking the matter to court and choosing to send government ships and planes into the area. I would say China is a thug.

    I don't know if you have a different English interpretation perhaps? It's either Civilian branch of the government or the Military branch. So can you explain what you mean? You mean Private citizen planes when I say Civilian?

    Thug? Excuse me! Thug applies to street brawling, I hope you re read the definition of thug. You seems to like decorating China with 'facism', now 'thug'. Hmm, soon you may run out of vocabulary to describe China!

    Famous excuse used by countries that don't have a claim legitimate enough to take to the ICJ.

    Famous excuse? Have you look at the composition of ICJ judges? Read the list of countries there and of course if I am China I will be concerned. You know how Bush v Gore went right? By one vote and don't you think politics is a factor there?

    China will never bring the case to the ICJ. Not only will they lose flat out, but they will open themselves up top claims from all the other countries that it is trying to steal territory from.

    Long long time ago I banish 'Never' from my vocabulary. Like NEVER WWIII?

    Same as all countries that have submitted to ICJ ruling. Like the United Sates, Australia and EU countries. Come back when China decides to become a civilized nation and submit to the ICJ. The entire world sees China as being aggressive, dishonest, rude, and belligerent. The only thing worse than a fascist country is someone who actually supports it.

    Yes that fake civilization Australia among the ICJ membership. Afraid the aborigines will throw the 'rejects' out of their motherland? So of course, like Japan, let's put on a show and add With Reservation to our ICJ membership. US? US is completely out of reach of ICJ didn't you read? US withdrew from ICJ because I suppose too many charges may be leveled against her like Israel resisting Palestine upgraded observer status in UN a few months ago for fear of human rights abuse charges.

    Give me a break! It is more like the US and Japan and some Asian countries having disputes with China being blinded and paint China as a big bad guy! But of course when you lose jobs, you have territorial disputes, and you see China rising you resent her! I see you liberally using the word 'fascist' again! A clearer explanation will help readers understand how you arrive at your conclusion.

  • 3

    nigelboy

    ????? They are drilling on the Chinese side, so why would China need agreement? So why would Japan ask to share seismic data which China refused? China has been producing gas since 2006 from a Chunxiao, located nearby a median line between a dual nations that Japan has due but China has rejected as a nautical boundary.

    They don't need an agreement to built on the Chinese side. They unilaterally built them, remember? But they are careful not to build on the Japanese side of the equidistant line for the simple reason that UNCLOS states that equidistant/median line will be observed until there is a settlement.

  • -2

    lucabrasi

    @sfjp

    Do you seriously believe that the US is going to get involved in an all-out nuclear war over a couple of rocks it has no claim to? No chance, and I hope Japan isn't relying on American support as part of her strategy.

    I say let China have the Senkakus. Not officially, no declaration. Just walk away. One less distraction for the Chinese people from their government's antidemocratic brutality. Once the revolution kicks off in Beijing, Japan will be free to take them back without opposition.

  • 3

    Crazedinjapan

    Tony you aren't by any chance standing out in front of a Japanese embassy or consulate pumping propaganda posters up and down are you ??? Why would China "submit" indisputable proof meaning continental shelf mapping to the UN but need the time to map it out more for the ICJ. Of you don't like Japan or have nothing good to say about Japan without respecting the fact that they have allowed you to live here perhaps you should vacate and move to China.

  • -3

    Tony Ew

    @T-MackFeb. 06, 2013 - 01:33AM JST

    When I was I in the Navy, we did this all the time...lock on Radar, lock on Sonar, It's a prosecution technique, used to harrass other vessel's. We would actively "ping" on sub's and ship's..It's like a huge hammer of sound hitting your ship, really ring's the ear's on Submarines...It's used to chase vessel's out of territorial water's...No weapons, just alot of noise...!!!

    Thank you T-Mack for sharing your experiences. People should not over read these events. It is not like China have a dozen ships and planes in the area to protect each other in a properly orchestrated attack scenario. China knows full well a NAKED ship will be sunk if she fires at a Japanese navy ship. I can only see this as a harassment action as you mentioned. Japan is thus well advised to move further out of range to avoid these recurrences IN INTERNATIONAL WATERS.

    Remember 2001 China fighter jet collision with US spy plane? Same reason. Over international waters deemed too close spying on Hainan Island. Japan navy and helicopter may be spying on Chinese navy and they ask for themselves to be 'painted' SO YOU SEE JAPAN IS THE INSTIGATOR OF THIS TENSION!

    If Japan insist in being WITHIN RANGE of Chinese ships IN INTERNATIONAL WATERS, one can reasonably INFER Japan is BAITING China to start a war first. Very cunning!

  • 0

    Nessie

    Moreover, only about 40 of these Chinese nuclear weapons can reach the U.S. Surely the U.S. would "win" any nuclear war with China

    That's true, but you have to wonder whether the U.S. would risk even those 40.

  • 1

    Elbuda Mexicano

    If something is MADE IN CHINA, do not buy it! Boycott all Chinese things not just here in Japan but ALL AROUND THE WORLD and see how quickly the $$$$ loving Chinese will change their tune! This is the best way to get them where they are most weak, $$$$ in their pockets, in their bank accounts, then and only then will CHINA understand they have to PLAY BY THE RULES with the rest of the modern world or they can see their country implode and have their people start civil wars all over and instead of having 1 CHINA, more likely to have it disintegrate into a bunch of smaller countries divided by race, ethnicity, language, religion etc...

  • 3

    nandakandamanda

    Quote Tony Ew: "Taiwan will be the real legitimate owner of the Senkaku/Diaoyou Islands because Taiwan have the Trump Card: Taiwan IS NEARER to the disputed islands than Japan or China!"

    If this is true then China should butt out.

    BTW, the distance to these islands is from Taiwan 170 km, from Ishigaki Jima, 170 km. How is that nearer?

    (Not that distance has much to do with legitimacy.)

  • -4

    Tony Ew

    @Fadamor

    No, the military equivalent of pointing a gun at someone/something is... pointing a gun at someone/something. "Painting" a ship with FC radar is the military equivalent of saying, "I know exactly how far away you are and your course and speed, so I have a firing solution if it's needed." Considering how often it happens in the real world, we'd have obliterated the human race decades ago if the mere painting of a target was grounds for starting a war. Please don't kill us off yet with your uninformed outrage.

    Exactly! Chinese navy is telling the Japanese ships or helicopter to BUZZ OFF. You are shadowing me in INTERNATIONAL WATERS, too close for comfort, so JAPAN IS ACTUALLY AT FAULT. It is not very hard to understand if you have being stalked by someone. So I would say Japan is actually BAITING China to make the first shot and start a war. I hope the world understand what Japan is really up to!

    I also think US should revise the security treaty with Japan to NOT defend Japan if a PATTERN OF 'BAITING' can be established. Why put Americans in harms way falling into Japan's trickery?

  • -2

    Tony Ew

    @OssanAmericaFeb. 06, 2013 - 06:35AM JST

    While painting a target was done all throughout the cold war and still carried out today, it is undeniable that China doing so now at this time in this location is another act of escalating the conflict. Japan did the right thing by making it public so that the world will see how China continues to enflame this issue and inch closer to actual combat,

    I like to learn from you how do you communicate with a stalker. Japanese ships and helicopter stalk Chinese navy ships. Should China just allow the 'stalker' to get too close for comfort? Don't you think Japan is the aggressor here? . Japan like to convert 'aggressor' to 'victim' but you do it too many times the world will see through the trickery. But as usual Japan is very good at PR, so let's set the records straight here.

  • 1

    OssanAmerica

    Patrick SmashFeb. 06, 2013 - 12:38PM JST The Chinese are entering these waters on a daily basis because they claim they own them. Japan also claims it owns >them, but Japan's claim remains just a claim unless they admit the dispute exists and go to the ICJ to clear this up, >which they won't do

    Japan can not go to the ICJ. It is up to the claimant to file a claim. What do expect Japan to do, file a claim against itself? Japan, like the US, Australiam. EU is a country that has signed an agreement to submit to ICJ jurisdiction. China has not even done that. And it will NEVER make a claim in the ICJ because that would open itself up for claims from the many other countries it is stealing territory from.

  • 7

    Frungy

    FadamorFeb. 06, 2013 - 06:03AM JST No, the military equivalent of pointing a gun at someone/something is... pointing a gun at someone/something. "Painting" a ship with FC radar is the military equivalent of saying, "I know exactly how far away you are and your course and speed, so I have a firing solution if it's needed." Considering how often it happens in the real world, we'd have obliterated the human race decades ago if the mere painting of a target was grounds for starting a war. Please don't kill us off yet with your uninformed outrage.

    Please don't call me uninformed when it is you who is committing that mistake. Clearly you know nothing about military procedure. There is no "pointing the gun" stage AFTER a lock-on, the ships weapons are hooked into the radar and tracking the target as soon as the lock-on is acquired, and constantly generating firing solutions at this point. The way that military weapons systems work is that once a target is designated the weapons systems are constantly less than a heartbeat away from firing, and all that the computers are waiting for is for someone to press the button that STOPS them from firing.

    Do you get it? The weapon is already pointed at that stage, it is already ready to fire, all its waiting for is for someone to press the button.

    So clearly you're the one who is uninformed. Go back to your armchair general and pick up a copy of Jane's and read up on how military weapons systems work, or better yet take a trip down to your local military base and ask someone who knows and they'll confirm everything I've written here. China was literally a heartbeat away from firing.

    Oh, and FYI, passive radar would have given bearing, speed, etc. There was absolutely no need for this tactic. And if they were in International Waters then painting another flagged ship with active radar is, at best, an act of piracy, and at worst, an act of war. You do NOT wait for the enemy's torpedos to be in the water and their missiles to be in the air, because at 200+km/hr and a distance of maybe 1 km you have about 20 seconds before you're blown out of the water... at best and assuming you detect them the moment they're launched.

    Unless you seriously propose that the Japanese crew martyr themselves just to allow China to "take the first shot"? Because if you are then I recommend that YOU get out their and sacrifice your life rather than asking others to do it from the safety of your chair.

  • 3

    OssanAmerica

    Tony EwFeb. 06, 2013 - 01:11PM JST "@OssanAmericaFeb. 06, 2013 - 06:35AM JST While painting a target was done all throughout the cold war and still carried out today, it is undeniable that China doing so now at this time in this location is another act of escalating the conflict. Japan did the right thing by making it public so that the world will see how China continues to enflame this issue and inch closer to actual combat,

    I like to learn from you how do you communicate with a stalker. Japanese ships and helicopter stalk Chinese navy >ships. Should China just allow the 'stalker' to get too close for comfort? Don't you think Japan is the aggressor here? . >Japan like to convert 'aggressor' to 'victim' but you do it too many times the world will see through the trickery. But as >usual Japan is very good at PR, so let's set the records straight here.

    The record has already been set Ew.

  • 0

    nandakandamanda

    "China helping Taiwan to claim these islands" sounds like China looking ahead to when they can claim both Taiwan and these islands together in one fell swoop. I am sure Taiwan does not need or want China's help here.

    All anyone really wants is to revert to the semi-ambiguous status quo where various nations' fishing boats could come and go relatively unhindered. How to get back to paradise?

  • -6

    Tony Ew

    @CrazedinjapanFeb. 06, 2013 - 09:50AM JST

    Tony you aren't by any chance standing out in front of a Japanese embassy or consulate pumping propaganda posters up and down are you ??? Why would China "submit" indisputable proof meaning continental shelf mapping to the UN but need the time to map it out more for the ICJ. Of you don't like Japan or have nothing good to say about Japan without respecting the fact that they have allowed you to live here perhaps you should vacate and move to China

    No buddy. Actually I am very very sad at what is happening. I am neither Pro China Nor Anti Japan. I am pro truth wherever it leads. I had done business with Japanese people before, been to Japan twice and admire how organize and clean Japan is. And of course very nice ORDINARY people too!

    I am also actually very sympathetic about Japan's energy problem, hot summer with high air condition settings. If I am not mistaken WWII was all about RESOURCES, oil especially, minerals, timber etc. Japan is a very resource poor country and I was shocked when I went to one of your 'bear national park' near Mt Fuji and cannot see a single living animal there! So not much wild things that could easily thrive there like in South East Asia. I even saw the building in Kobe where the Westerners visit Japan to pry her open, and of course the Earthquake in Kobe cracked roads still near the pier.

    We have to put the 'bad genie' back into the bottle and the only way is to stop nationalism on both sides and stop reporting periodic 'intrusions' that China MUST do now for domestic consumption AND start joint drilling RIGHT AWAY, the 2008 agreement TO MAKE THIS INTO A DAILY HEADLINE NEWS INSTEAD OF THIS NONSENSICAL RHETORICS AND 'INTRUSIONS' REPORTING.

    I think a compromise may be reached by SLOWLY let China reduce the frequency of maritime 'intrusions' to almost a blip and NO ONE CARES! THE POLITICAL LEADERS, LOUDSPEAKERS NEED BE REIGNED IN!

    Actually the fault is the Generational War in both countries. Older people in Japan and in China HIJACKING the future of their respective younger generations. Do you see younger Japanese being so nationalist? I see they kind of feel lost, hopeless, that is what I read anyway and please read textbooks and also get other sources to compare accuracy.

    Now why do I talk a lot of NASTY things about Japan? BECAUSE of a history of DECEIT: Mukden Incident, Marco Polot Bridge Invasion pretext, Pearl Harbor sneak attack and other endless atrocities. YOUNGER JAPANESE SHOULD NOT SUFFER FROM IMPERIAL JAPAN'S ADVENTURISM but the older Japanese, farmers, I think they are the crowd that is fanning the flame here. Of course China also have her share of nationalists. Nobody is clean here.

    I hope the Japanese politicians stop talking from BOTH SIDES OF THEIR MOUTH. It is SO PREDICTABLE, one hand says 'we'll cooperate' the other hand say' 'nope, we won't negotiate'. Endless politicking!

    The Continental Shelf is humongous and China actually do not have the deep sea mapping technology until recently. At least that is what I know about China latest deep sea submersibles that help her to map the edges of the Shelf properly. So it is accurate to say this is the reason why it take so long to map it out.

    I don't do silly street level propaganda. Neither do I do propaganda here. If my observations and references seems like propaganda that may be because people dislike facing the truth. I cannot solve other people's problem especially if they prejudge the outcome.

    BTW I live in America.

  • -1

    SamuraiBlue

    The next step left is an ugly exchange of live fire that both side will regret.

  • 2

    lostrune2

    It's ok to ping ships. What the J-navy should do is just ping the other ship back. Then it's all even-stevens, and it'll be the end of it, that's that.

  • -1

    Droll Quarry

    Mr. Ambassador, you have nearly a hundred naval vessels operating in the South China Sea right now. Your aircraft has dropped enough sonar buoys so that a man could walk from Ishigakii to Taiwan to China without getting his feet wet. Now, shall we dispense with the bull?

  • -2

    Tiger_In_The_Hermitage

    I just wonder, if the ICJ says that these islands are Chinese, will Japan just hand over administration? I think regardless of what ICJ says we all have in our own minds who owns these islands.

  • -1

    MeLuvULongTimes

    If there is any kind of military conflict between China and Japan, it would be very brief as the US Navy would quickly encircle China's sea lanes and intercept all inbound and outbound Chinese freighters. It would not be a attack and destroy type of war, but, instead, an economic strangulation of the PRC. Which would, most likely, end up in civil uprisings and, finally, an overthrow of the communist government. They Chicoms know that, so unless they get really crazy, they will not attack. Offshore control is the answer: http://www.usni.org/magazines/proceedings/2012-12/offshore-control-answer

  • 0

    SamuraiBlue

    This is the very reason why Japan needs to amend article 9. If the JSDF ship was not within the continious zone, under article 9 the captain of the ship does not have the right to engage and the only thing he could do is hold position and use his CIWS to defend his ship. The captain will also be required to call out to the attacking ship to cease fire and remove their ship out of the immidiate zone.

    If the captain returns fire and sinks the enemy ship, he will face a CRIMINAL court facing man slaughter at least while the opponent political parties redicules him and his crew on a lofty "what if" scenario speculating that CIWS would have been enough to save his ship and crew and subduing the enemy ship with all the left wing fanatics crawling out of thier basement led by Asahi and the communist party to hang them.

    On the other hand if the captain retreats then he will porbably face a civil court on charges of abandoning his post and the right wings fanatics will be out to pull him down.

    For the captain and his crew the only choice left is get shot and become a martyr.

  • -1

    Globis007

    If China wins in this confrontation the world of peaceful countries loses. I think it's just a matter of time but china must fall. Half of their entire population is being affected by their poor air quality. Which will soon affect other countries as it gets blown their way. They are getting desperate and doing simply CRAZY things. Their foreign ministry is saying their government did not know about it because they know this would not be in their favor to start a war. China is like a bad design that has to be scraped and start over. I suspect that in this situation sadly Japan would have to sacrifice some people first before the US strikes back in defense of them and the world of peace.

  • 3

    Kwaabish

    Pinging or locking on by countries that had relative self constraint (such as US-USSR) back in the cold war days is one thing, that act being done by an illogical regime such as China in another. As for Japan, they wouldn't fire first anyway.

    China doesn't come out looking like an angel in the eyes of international public. Again.

  • -5

    Sentiments

    Tony. I have to say that Im happy that you seem to believe that you are promoting truth. Please dont be discouraged when everyone else seems to believe in a different kind of truth. Bottom line is that there is a potential for learning for everyone in the differences. Im sure I have learned something from your sometimes looong posts.

  • -7

    Tony Ew

    @Sentiments

    Please dont be discouraged when everyone else seems to believe in a different kind of truth. Bottom line is that there is a potential for learning for everyone in the differences. Im sure I have learned something from your sometimes looong posts.

    It will be nice to have many posters from outside Japan and also from outside Western countries esp US posting here. You understand there is no proper sampling here of sentiments for or against China or Japan because the silent majority don't vote! It is a public relation war for sure and of course I expect more people to take the opposite opinions than mine here being this is a Japanese website with more Japanese readers. I find the same bias towards Chinese positions in www.globaltimes.cn by Chinese posters from China.(guesswork by name as is done here as well) This is only to be expected in both cases.

  • 4

    Fadamor

    This is the very reason why Japan needs to amend article 9. If the JSDF ship was not within the continious zone, under article 9 the captain of the ship does not have the right to engage and the only thing he could do is hold position and use his CIWS to defend his ship. The captain will also be required to call out to the attacking ship to cease fire and remove their ship out of the immidiate zone.

    If the captain returns fire and sinks the enemy ship, he will face a CRIMINAL court facing man slaughter at least while the opponent political parties redicules him and his crew on a lofty "what if" scenario speculating that CIWS would have been enough to save his ship and crew and subduing the enemy ship with all the left wing fanatics crawling out of thier basement led by Asahi and the communist party to hang them.

    False. The captain can use any method at his disposal to defend his ship if attacked, EVEN ON THE OPEN SEA.

    Article 9 states:

    Aspiring sincerely to an international peace based on justice and order, the Japanese people forever renounce war as a sovereign right of the nation and the threat or use of force as means of settling international disputes. (2) To accomplish the aim of the preceding paragraph, land, sea, and air forces, as well as other war potential, will never be maintained. The right of belligerency of the state will not be recognized.

    Nothing in the article prohibits a ship from defending itself from attack as best as it can.

  • -8

    Tony Ew

    @Frungy

    There is no "pointing the gun" stage AFTER a lock-on, the ships weapons are hooked into the radar and tracking the target as soon as the lock-on is acquired, and constantly generating firing solutions at this point. The way that military weapons systems work is that once a target is designated the weapons systems are constantly less than a heartbeat away from firing, and all that the computers are waiting for is for someone to press the button that STOPS them from firing. Oh, and FYI, passive radar would have given bearing, speed, etc. There was absolutely no need for this tactic. And if they were in International Waters then painting another flagged ship with active radar is, at best, an act of piracy, and at worst, an act of war. You do NOT wait for the enemy's torpedos to be in the water and their missiles to be in the air, because at 200+km/hr and a distance of maybe 1 km you have about 20 seconds before you're blown out of the water... at best and assuming you detect them the moment they're launched. Do you get it? The weapon is already pointed at that stage, it is already ready to fire, all its waiting for is for someone to press the button.

    Thank you for your illuminating post. Perhaps you can also share your experiences if you have ever encounter enemy ships so close and your ship paint theirs.

    I for one think Japan is HARRASSING the Chinese ship by STALKING SO NEAR to this ship. What will your captain do in such a situation?WHY USE PASSIVE RADAR WHEN YOU ARE BEING HARRASSED? Isn't it fair to HARRASS THE HARRASSER? If Japan is truly honest about lowering the tension,

    WHY does Japan have her ships and helicopter STALK Chinese ships in international waters? I think Japan is baiting China to take the first shot and start a war. What do you think? US should not defend Japan in this case with US taxpayer dollars for such a stealthy act of Japanese aggression cloaked as victim!

  • -8

    Tony Ew

    @OssanAmericaFeb. 05, 2013 - 10:24PM JST

    Really about time the world slapped China down before they stat WWIII.

    @Cortes ElijahFeb. 05, 2013 - 10:27PM JST

    Stop the crap China!

    Boy, I wouldn't be so gullible buying Abe government storyline. I think Abe have a SCHEME TO BAIT CHINA INTO WAR. If you take off your First Instinct that says China is the aggressor, you will agree with me that Japan is IN FACT THE STEALTH AGGRESSOR! You can reach this conclusion by observing past Japanese war tactics, always feigning as victim while in fact really an aggressor!

    I for one think Japan is HARRASSING the Chinese ship by STALKING SO NEAR to the Chinese ship. What will you do in such a situation? WHY does Japan have her ships and helicopter STALK Chinese ships in international waters? I think Japan is baiting China to take the first shot and start a war.

    US should not defend Japan in this case with US taxpayer dollars for such a stealthy act of Japanese aggression cloaked as victim!

  • 3

    OssanAmerica

    Tony EwFeb. 07, 2013 - 02:15AM JST @OssanAmericaFeb. 05, 2013 - 10:24PM JST Really about time the world slapped China down before they stat WWIII. @Cortes ElijahFeb. 05, 2013 - 10:27PM JST Stop the crap China!

    Boy, I wouldn't be so gullible buying Abe government storyline. I think Abe have a SCHEME TO BAIT CHINA INTO >WAR. If you take off your First Instinct that says China is the aggressor, you will agree with me that Japan is IN FACT >THE STEALTH AGGRESSOR! You can reach this conclusion by observing past Japanese war tactics, always >feigning as victim while in fact really an aggressor!

    No Tony, China is the aggressor,

    I for one think Japan is HARRASSING the Chinese ship by STALKING SO NEAR to the Chinese ship. What will you >do in such a situation? WHY does Japan have her ships and helicopter STALK Chinese ships in international waters? >I think Japan is baiting China to take the first shot and start a war.

    You can think whatever you like, but the Chinese government has NOT claimed that the Japanese ships are "stalking" their ships. I have to admire your creativity though.

    US should not defend Japan in this case with US taxpayer dollars for such a stealthy act of Japanese aggression >cloaked as victim!

    Did you bother reading this article? http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/political-news/chinas-domestic-problems-a-recipe-for-regional-disaster-20130205-2dwb8.html

  • 4

    JoeBigs

    T-MackFeb. 06, 2013 - 01:33AM JST "When I was I in the Navy, we did this all the time...lock on Radar, lock on Sonar, It's a prosecution technique, used to harrass other vessel's. "

    Locking weapons is not a harrassment tech, it's an aggressive assault. Only reason you would do such a thing is to test, warn or to push.

    Locking weapons is not used for fun or if your just for the heck of it. It is very serious and must be used when the time warrants it.

    The PRC was wrong in it's attack. As I have said before, the PRC and it's servant nations are the greatest threat to world peace.

    T-MackFeb. 06, 2013 - 01:33AM JST We would actively "ping" on sub's and ship's..It's like a huge hammer of sound hitting your ship, really ring's the ear's on Submarines...It's used to chase vessel's out of territorial water's...No weapons, just alot of noise...!!!

    Getting pinged doesn't ring anyones ears, have you ever been on a sub and gotten pinged? Before you say a word, I have and you are way off.

    The use of active sonar is used to see if any subs are near or to get an accurate range of ships/subs. Pinging is not used for fun unless you are fishing and have the right equipment.

  • 5

    JoeBigs

    Tony EwFeb. 07, 2013 - 02:15AM JST Boy, I wouldn't be so gullible buying Abe government storyline. I think Abe have a SCHEME TO BAIT CHINA INTO WAR

    A member of the great water internet army speaks.

    A funnier joke has never be said. The only scheme here is the one you and your masters are playing. You really should go back and make sure that your superiors are okay with your comments before you continue to post.

    You do not want to lose your job to another, they may make you go work at FoxComm if you're not careful.

  • 6

    JoeBigs

    TigerInThe_HermitageFeb. 06, 2013 - 03:30PM JST I just wonder, if the ICJ says that these islands are Chinese, will Japan just hand over administration? I think regardless of what ICJ says we all have in our own minds who owns these islands.

    So you're claiming that the PRC has asked the ICJ to resolve the issue?

    If they have could you provide proof of this, but I will not hold my breath.

  • -11

    Tony Ew

    @OssanAmerica

    Here is something about the PRC. They are rather bland and uncreative in their presentation. They lose the PR war, and they don't always present themselves clearly. Why? BECAUSE CHINA IS RUN BY TECHNORATS, NOT A BUNCH OF WILLY MANIPULATIVE POLITICIANS LIKE IN JAPAN OR US! The best way is as I suggest for the Japanese Navy to show their ship log so we know why the Japanese navy ship is only 2 miles away.

    No Tony, China is the aggressor,

    Obviously you don't read Japanese history of deceits to win any war. Abe is borrowing from the Playbook Of Deceits from the WWII Imperial Japan gurus. Keep believing Japan is cool like Neville Chamberlain believe Hitler is cool!

    Oh, you also forgot the helicopter incident. Was the Japanese helicopter pilot drunk and find his way close enough to Chinese warship to be radar locked too? See, there is a PATTERN of Japanese stealth aggressive strategy!

    Don't bother reading stuff in the past tense. Political decisions evolve all the time. US will LEAD FROM BEHIND, that is codeword for let Japan get bloodied first. Oops, our jets, ships malfunctioned so cannot get there on time! I have to admit though US will provide early warning system 100% but not blood early on.

  • -1

    T-Mack

    @JoeBigs, I served as Sonar tech. and I have actively pinged on ship's and sub's and if you were in the water at "bottom bouce tripple freq" you would be fried alive in sound...I don't know what you know about sound, But it's my specialty...Active Sonar is Hurting marine life as well...You need to do a little more research before you get in line with troll's...Once more sound is now going to be used to disperse crowd's with intense heat caused by sound. I am also a commercial diver...so I'm afraid your sadly mistaken... but you really "Sound" like you know what your talking about...go try again...but thank's for your honorable comment's...

  • -2

    Zenpun

    JoeBigsFeb. 07, 2013 - 08:41AM JST

    The use of active sonar is used to see if any subs are near or to get an accurate range of ships/subs. Pinging is not used for fun unless you are fishing and have the right equipment.

    It is not entirely true Sir. It can be used for navigation safety too. If two ships are speeding or one is stalking other, it has high risk for colliding. The solution for avoding accident is pin point accuacy of analysing ship moving direction.

    Pls refer to

    http://www.farsounder.com/files/NavigationSonarForTheShipOperator_ForwardLookingSonarsAndMultibeamEchosoundersExplained.pdf

  • 1

    T-Mack

    Passive sonar is listening in all freq. You can tell what ship is near you by it's sound, for example USSR vessels used 50 and 100 hrz electrical, USS uses 60 and 120 hrz electrical, on GRAMS analisys you will see a strong line at 100 hrz and a harmonic at 200 hrz weeker yet at 300 hrz and faint at 400 hrz , and a strong line at 50 hrz and reinforced by a stronger signal (classified) due to reactor cooling pump's, not an American vessel. Active Sonar need's only one "ping" to have range, bearing and doppler=( coming or going away from you) to fire subroc's , torpedo's ...etc...all weapons are on target when "locked"...

  • 7

    Eautaceux Janais

    If reports are true, you know China isn't doing this for fun. They really want to start something--for sure hoping the Japanese would respond in kind and then pounce on the opportunity. I sure hope Japan stays classy but firm. Nations can't and shouldn't be pushed around by a newly-rich bully who can't buy class.

  • 3

    T-Mack

    China is late in their claim of the island's, so late that now, that all they can do is bully Japan out of the Senaku Island's like a "thug" taking a fellow classmate's lunch money...But America will not stand by and let that happen...If need be, move the Marine's from Okinawa to Senaku island's, no more drunk servicemen in Okinawa, and no more radar lock...Marines can better serve Japan from those Island's anyway...and you get the Osphrey out as well...

  • 3

    SamuraiBlue

    Fadamor

    Under strict interpretation of article 9 as you had posted;

    The right of belligerency of the state will not be recognized.

    Sinking the offensive ship could be taken as excessive act of self defense. The commander and chief, the prime minister must give those explicit orders and the ruling on conduct will be considered by court of law while the prime minister's orders will be ridiculed within the house of representatives.

    This is the point I want to make. With the present article 9 in hand the rules of engagement out side the continious zone is ambigous only to be given out by the Prime minister on a case by case situation. There are no court martials nor military rules of conduct as guidance and it will be always be handled by court of law under civilian criminal law.

    That is the reason why article 9 needs some admendments.

  • 0

    T-Mack

    (90 HRZ) main cooling pump's on an "Alpha Submarine" I just de-classified it...These alpha-class sub's would cost less if they were made of "Gold".... Titanium hull, 7 man, fast attack, very awesome Russian engineering...They are Nuclear Electric propulsion...they dive very deep...but China...no not to advanced yet, but they are using cold war tactic's, like someone posted on this thread earlier...

  • 8

    Frungy

    Tony EwFeb. 07, 2013 - 01:55AM JST I for one think Japan is HARRASSING the Chinese ship by STALKING SO NEAR to this ship. What will your captain do in such a situation?WHY USE PASSIVE RADAR WHEN YOU ARE BEING HARRASSED? Isn't it fair to HARRASS THE HARRASSER? If Japan is truly honest about lowering the tension,

    Harass? By your assessment I can point a gun at someone following the street because they're"harassing" me by walking in the same direction on a public street. Your position is so ridiculous that it barely merits comment.

    WHY does Japan have her ships and helicopter STALK Chinese ships in international waters? I think Japan is baiting China to take the first shot and start a war. What do you think? US should not defend Japan in this case with US taxpayer dollars for such a stealthy act of Japanese aggression cloaked as victim!

    Perhaps because they've announced their intention to enter Japanese waters, or have just left Japanese waters? Seriously, if someone if walking up and down the road in front of your street wouldn't it be a good idea to call the cops on them? If someone has just walked out of your house after entering illegally most people wouldn't even bother with the cops.

    What do I think? Since you asked I think you've got to be joking. If Japan was sending its ships into Chinese waters then you would have a point, but trying to argue that China voluntarily sending ships into Japanese waters when they're repeatedly been asked not to is in some way Japan's fault..... next you'll be arguing that murder victims are at fault in some way because they provoked the murderer.

  • -11

    Tony Ew

    @AlexNoaburgFeb. 06, 2013 - 12:36AM JST

    This story seems very thin to me. There's no reaction quote from the Chinese side and in the article it states that the Japanese side has already locked radar in January but this was not reported on (which illustrates a pro-Japan bias). It appears the media is propagandizing (playing up, or even in this case, manufacturing news) in order to set the table for an attack on China (speculation, but perhaps this is why Abe is seeking to change the Japanese constitution in order to strike first for "self defense" since China won't.)

    Exactly! Guess you and I are in the same boat. People here don't want to consider our viewpoints as a very real possibility, oh, I guess because most readers are Japanese perhaps or just plain China haters.

    I am very surprise why many American posters don't consider the very plausible possibility that Japan is full of deception given Pearl Harbor attack on US. Amnesia or distorted history books?

  • 3

    Alejandro Dela Cruz

    Why is a 50 cent army doing here?

    China is obviously looking to start something. Because their claims are all invalid, they want to start a war instead. Just as how they started claiming PH territories that was started by their fishermen intruding into PH waters. I think the next thing we will hear is that, Chinese warship fired warning shots to the japanese, Japanese warship retaliated and boom boom pow!

  • -7

    Tony Ew

    @Alejandro Dela Cruz

    Help yourself to some news here.

    "According to Japan's defense ministry, on the morning of January 30, the MSDF destroyer Yudachi detected the fire-control radar signal from a Chinese Jiangwei II class (Type 053H3) frigate, which was about three kilometers away.

    Li Jie, a researcher at the Chinese Naval Research Institute, told the Global Times that Japanese military vessels and aircraft have often made provocative gestures by tailing Chinese navy vessels on the high seas.

    "If the reports from Japan are true, the Chinese navy vessels might have intended to prepare for further provocative acts from the Japanese side by testing their radar equipment," Li said.

    Chinese navy vessels are often followed and harassed by Japanese military vessels and aircraft as soon as they leave Chinese territorial waters, a military source told the Global Times earlier.

    An opinion piece from South Korea's Munhwa Ilbo newspaper said Wednesday that by hyping the incident, Tokyo was trying to gain the upper hand in international opinion over the territorial dispute." http://www.globaltimes.cn/content/760701.shtml

    BTW I don't work for anybody. Just a ONE Man Army Okay?

  • 1

    JoeBigs

    T-MackFeb. 07, 2013 - 10:41AM JST @JoeBigs, I served as Sonar tech. and I have actively pinged on ship's and sub's and if you were in the water at "bottom bouce tripple freq" you would be fried alive in sound...

    Yeah, I for one would not swim infront of a sonar aray nor would I dance infront of a ships radar when active. But while in a sub I was happily covered by a double hall and lots of ocean so I did not have a care in the world.

    And no, when we got pinged it did not blow our ears or cause us any problems other than the CO getting ticked off.

    But to be honest, surface ships couldn't find us unless we let them. As we always said, surface ships are just targets.

    T-MackFeb. 07, 2013 - 10:41AM JST I don't know what you know about sound, But it's my specialty...Active Sonar is Hurting marine life as well...You need to do a little more research before you get in line with troll's...Once more sound is now going to be used to disperse crowd's with intense heat caused by sound. I am also a commercial diver...so I'm afraid your sadly mistaken... but you really "Sound" like you know what your talking about...go try again...but thank's for your honorable comment's...

    Like I said before, I for one will not swim infront of a sonar aray. Yeah I have an idea of how sonar works, too funny.

    As to my experiences, I had the pleasure of sitting infront of a monitor with those fun headsets on more times than I wish to remember.. It could be fun at times, but most of the times you sit and listen to biologicals (pop, pop pop)....Conn sonar we have submerged contact we've designated Sierra 12.....Conn sonar Sierra 12 has been classified as biologicals.

    Come on, let's be realistic, if our warships roamed the sea locking our fire control radars on the PLAN or the Russian navy we would hear it on the news. But we do not, we play it right and only use force or the threat of force when we need to.

    The PRC was wrong and folks that don't see that they too are wrong or they work for the PRC.

  • 2

    JoeBigs

    Tony EwFeb. 08, 2013 - 09:15AM JST Li Jie, a researcher at the Chinese Naval Research Institute, told the Global Times that Japanese military vessels and aircraft have often made provocative gestures by tailing Chinese navy vessels on the high seas.

    Is this the same Chinese Naval Research Institute that is part of the PRC military? Or is it something else?LOL

    Your propaganda efforts are a joke, you use state propaganda that comes from a state run orginazation to try and defend your nations aggressions. Really that one is too funny!

    Keep trying, the harder you try the longer you can avoid being forced to work at FoxConn.

    More propaganda from the PRC's water internet army.

  • -1

    JoeBigs

    ZenpunFeb. 07, 2013 - 11:04AM JST It is not entirely true Sir. It can be used for navigation safety too. If two ships are speeding or one is stalking other, it has high risk for colliding. The solution for avoding accident is pin point accuacy of analysing ship moving direction.

    Thanks for your concern, but to quote my former Commanding Officer, "if you're too close then you have done something wrong."

    Yes pinging or the use of active sonar is used at times for navigational purposes, but if it is used you must be very careful where it is used.

  • 2

    Kwaabish

    I am very surprise why many American posters don't consider the very plausible possibility that Japan is full of deception given Pearl Harbor attack on US. Amnesia or distorted history books?

    It's probably because the Pearl Harbor attack was conducted by a militaristic regime of 60 years ago that no longer is in power. In fact, the current Chinese regime looks and acts more like Japan of the 1930's and 1940's.

    Distortion, deception, censorship, aggression against neighbors. Japan of the past, China of present. Additionally, Japan hasn't massacred its own citizens in the range of millions of people in the last 40 years (Great Leap Forward, Cultural Revolution anyone?)

    No wonder the international community is distrustful of China...

  • -7

    Tony Ew

    @Kwaabish

    It's probably because the Pearl Harbor attack was conducted by a militaristic regime of 60 years ago that no longer is in power. In fact, the current Chinese regime looks and acts more like Japan of the 1930's and 1940's

    No sir! Japan is more like pre WWII if you see how Abe is trying to revise the Constitution to have offensive capability! China have NO reason to fight NOW with Japan because of US backing Japan in the Diaoyou/Senkaku Island. AND realistically China cannot win in direct air/sea/submarine combat with US involved, BUT WILL WIN if she introduces DF 21D and other long range land based missiles. However this will lead to WWIII !

    I hope John Kerry REVISE the US stance from BLIND defense of Senkaku/Diaoyu Islands to just providing early warning AWACS IF Japan revise the Constitution. Why should US tax dollars be spent defending Senkaku/Diaoyu Islands that is NOT sovereign YET? Remember US does NOT confer sovereignty to Japan, so make sense to everybody?

  • -1

    Jay Hoffman

    I don't want my tax dollars spent on defending the right wing abe government and people putting him there

  • 2

    jinkoenig

    I dont understand why Abe government is right wing? It is no problem to issue self-defense force to an invasion. I wonder why China said Senkaku islands are Chinese territory. It goes without saying these are Japanese. How does China think, if Japan pronounces that Manchria is Japanese territory? Are Chinese people right wing? Chinese are offended by this sentence.

  • 0

    T-Mack

    An actively pinging ship is a target for a submarine, however a line of sonar buoy's and a helicopter with torpedo's from the ship, find's the sub first, and the submariner's would never hear it coming...Having served on the USS Pollock, and the USS O'BRIEN , Two west packs...I have spent More time on the SQS-17 listening to all sound in the ocean than I care to think about..A scan, B scan, Target tracking consol, and the passive sonar I spoke of earlier...Got the best years of my younger life...But I loved the navy, and still do...Anti-Submarine warfare is alot waiting and listening...Classify ship's and sub's right down to the Hull number, mode of propulsion and weapons system's. Sonar has contact, bearing 060, Range 3000 yard's, opening doppler of 13 knot's, permission to go active? Permission denied...most of the time. and we very rarely got to use full power... Mostly 1/3 power...Permission to go active "Granted" one third power bottom bounce tripple freq...aye aye sir, (one ping that sounds like three different notes, with one higher pitched harmonic on each, six sound's all together ), Target tracking now has "lock"...Permision to fire.! Permission denied...Target tracking maintaining lock, Let's follow this Submarine for awhile...Just a peep into what goes on in Combat System's Controll...

  • 1

    T-Mack

    Fadamor, You have it right...Like I said when I was in the navy we did this all the time, just to chase ship's and Sub's out of our area's that we patroled. Some say it's like pointed a gun at some one, yea?, but for target tracking to fire it's weapons, it's take two people to deliver ordinance on a target, usally the XO, and Sonar watch Supervisor. So it would be more like two people holding that gun at you...

  • 1

    m6bob

    China, a country which created the dangerous North Korea, and now unable to represent the great Chinese race, all because of the communist system of government in power which do not follow international rules of diplomacy. Their MO is to deny every wrong they've done and hope for the best.

  • 0

    megosaa

    a radar acquisition and lock is indeed considered an act of war by many countries

    imagine having a gun cocked at you as you are walking pass. how do you feel?

  • 0

    toannds

    Please stop arguing! See this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nine-dotted_line It clearly shows the peaceful raise of China

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