Chinese ships seen in disputed waters for 28th straight day

TOKYO —

Four Chinese vessels were seen again Friday in disputed waters near islands that Japan claims as its sovereign territory. It was the 28th straight day that Chinese ships have sailed near the disputed islands known as Senkaku in Japan and Diaoyu in China.

The Japan Coast Guard said it issued a warning to the vessels which were spotted in the disputed area for about 90 minutes on Friday morning.

As well as the potential mineral reserves to which ownership of the islands grants access, both countries have considerable amounts of national pride at stake in the decades-old spat.

The dispute has hit the huge trade relationship between the two largest economies in the region. Senior representatives from both governments are reportedly readying for a third round of talks on the issue.

Japan Today/AFP

  • 6

    kimuzukashiiiii

    The third round of talks will be the same as the first and second ...

    China - "They are OUR islands, give them back." Japan - "No there are not. And no we will not." China (blows a raspberry and storms out of the room with grunts of "its not faaaaaaaaair.)

    Then the Chinese ships will be seen in the disputed waters for another 30 days. Commence round 4.

    Repeat as desired.

  • 0

    sfjp330

    After the incident, almost 40 percent of Japanese companies have expressed caution about future operations on the mainland, and possibilty of redirecting investment to Southeas Asia. The global economy needs Chinese reforms, just as the Chinese economy needs Japanese investment. China needs Japan much more than they realizes. Declining or not, Japan is still big. It has the world

  • 0

    OssanAmerica

    China can waste it's fuel on sending ships into the "disputed waters: for 90 minutes for the rest of eternity but it doesn't accomplish anything in terms of stengthening their "claim". And it certainly doesn't change Japan's position, if anything it only hardens it,. It does however continue the the breakdown in friendly Sino-Japanese relations that were established by Mao Tse Tung and Chou En Lai back in 1972 with J-PM Tanaka. And it does continue to project the image of China as a belligerent nation that freely mixes politics with economics to the rest of the world. How that benefits China is a mystery.

  • -6

    Asianhometown

    First of all, it's not Japan's island...U.N does not recognize it as part of Japan..Last month, England, France, and German all rejected Japan's Foreign Minister claim to the island and the US has no position. So its NOT Japan's island...Second..China was willing to leave the status quo as is and allow Japan to continue to administer it until Noda and the radical right wingers purchased the island..Before the purchase Chinese Patrol ships were not sailing around the island..third..Japan already lost control of the island since Chinese ships patrol around the island with no limitation and hinderance from Japan. Japan is not wiling to use force to kick them out and the US is not willing to get involved so China won..

    Bad move Japan..You should have just kept the island in private hands..

  • 4

    lucabrasi

    ...China was willing to leave the status quo as is and allow Japan to continue to administer it until Noda and the radical right wingers purchased the island.

    No. The government bought the islands to stop the radical right-wingers from doing so. Very basic fact.

  • 2

    sfjp330

    Asianhometow nNov. 17, 2012 - 09:46AM JST Japan already lost control of the island since Chinese ships patrol around the island with no limitation and hinderance from Japan.

    How ridiculous. Just because Chinese patrol boats sailed many times inside the 12 mile zone, they have control of the island? This is what you call bullying. What this tells you is that Japanese coast guard was disipline and avoiding any confrontation. China was looking for confrontation to esclate the problem. If China feels that they have the rights, present facts based on international laws.

  • -3

    jansob1

    I seriously cannot figure out why the Chinese haven't just landed troops there. Japan would be subject to a firestorm of international rage if they tried to retake them by force. All of Asia would screech "It's the 1930"s again!" and pretend that today's Japan is capable and desirous of taking over the Pacific. The Chinese would gain the instant sympathy of the world, with the media's full help.

    The US is not going to go to war over these islands. I don;t think the clear treaty obligations are a sure thing these days, much less an issue that we officially don;t have a position on.

    No one can risk the economic repercussions of anything more than a few protest notes.

    Once the Chinese said the islands were theirs, they were. The Chinese should put 100 marines on the islands, build a barracks, and all this will blow over.

  • -1

    nigelboy

    All of Asia would screech "It's the 1930"s again!" and pretend that today's Japan is capable and desirous of taking over the Pacific. The Chinese would gain the instant sympathy of the world, with the media's full help.

    I doubt it considering the aggressive actions by China in South China Sea.

  • -4

    CoreyL

    China is slowly starting to gain international support. Japan even said that we would try to have a "mutualistic" relationship with China. It seems that China has a much firmer stance than Japan.

  • -3

    jansob1

    Nope, the other Asians' hatred of Japan, combined with trying to curry favor with the new boss of Asia will make sure China pays no real price. They may KNOW that Japan is barely willing to defend the home islands, much less rebuild te Empire, but it's popular at home and appeases the Chinese....so they will do it. Countries with disputes with China probably already know they'll lose. There is no counter to China any longer.

  • -2

    nigelboy

    Nope, the other Asians' hatred of Japan

    Instead of staing "other" as if there are plenty of them, let's just name them. The two Koreas and China.

    Based on the recent BBC poll, one must ask who has favorable opinion of these three. (crickets chirping)

  • 4

    Frungy

    AsianhometownNov. 17, 2012 - 09:46AM JST First of all, it's not Japan's island...U.N does not recognize it as part of Japan..Last month, England, France, and German all rejected Japan's Foreign Minister claim to the island and the US has no position. So its NOT Japan's island...

    ... where do you get your information from, the back of cereal boxes? There was no such rejection, in fact there has been a thunderous silence. Why? Because everyone knows the islands belong to Japan, and saying, "No China, these are Japanese territory" would legitimise the Chinese position.

    Imagine for a moment if China suddenly claimed it owned America since their fleet of ships discovered America back in 1421 (see 1421: The Year China Discovered America" by William Morrow). ... The entire U.N. might fall over laughing, but they certainly wouldn't make an official comment, except possibly to snicker and walk off.

    Frankly this entire thing is ridiculous. China is making sparks and Japan is fanning them to get the LDP back into power. It's frankly juvenile.

  • 0

    WilliB

    I am afraid Japan will have to put a military contingent on the islands, the way Vietnam did on its remaining Spratleys after China annexed the Paracel islands.

    Otherwise, we wake up one morning with the red flag fluttering over the Senkakus, Chinese soldiers, and a Chinese radio tower. The communist Chinese government will just not leave it alone.

  • 0

    WilliB

    Asianhometown:

    " Germain newspaper editorials in October defended Chinese positions. "

    Can you quote the German newspaper editorials which defended Chinese positions? I would be curious to read them.

  • -2

    Asianhometown

    WilliB...below is the link to New York Times..I will post the German editorial later

    http://kristof.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/09/19/the-inconvenient-truth-behind-the-diaoyusenkaku-islands/

  • 0

    Asianhometown

    WilliB..please see below

    Deutschlandfunk, DLF, a German media channel, said in its broadcast on September 21 that the root cause of the conflicts over Diaoyu Islands is Japan's reluctance to comply with the international agreements that were signed for Japan's surrender at the end of World War II.

    Japan violates such agreements (Cairo Declaration and Potsdam Declaration).

    By such agreements, Japan needed to give up all occupied territories, and Japan's legitimate territories should be limited to the 4 main islands of Japan. Other territories such as Ryukyu Islands (Okinawa), and Taiwan and its nearby islands should be returned to the owners (China - either Republic of China at the end of WW2, or after the 1970's the PRC).Suddeutsche Zeitung, another German newspaper, said Japan does not fully realize that it committed crimes against China before World War II.

  • -7

    nigelboy

    WilliB...below is the link to New York Times..I will post the German editorial later

    Don't bother with German editorial if that's the best you got.

    http://ampontan.wordpress.com/2012/09/22/yes-it-is-inconvenient/

  • 3

    Asianhometown

    nigelboy...post some independent 3rd party articles rather than the biased Japanese ones...

    Look at the New York times, Deustschlandfunk, DLF and google others too.

    • Moderator

      Back on topic please.

  • 1

    yosun

    I saw a Taiwanese news couple days ago that again a taiwanese fishing boat was caught by JP coast guard around 24 miles south of Diaoyu/ Senkaku isles, this case shows why spineless taiwan/ KMT government can't protect its people. It's also quite understandable why CN ships have to keep going there!

  • 1

    cabadaje

    I seriously cannot figure out why the Chinese haven't just landed troops there.

    Because it would be strategically fatal and tactically foolish.

    Japan would be subject to a firestorm of international rage if they tried to retake them by force.

    They wouldn't need to retake them by force. All they would have to do is blockade the islands, which the Chinese invasion will have given them plenty of justification for. Incidentally, this would also mean that the patrol boats China keeps crowing about would have to slink back to their side with their tails between their legs, as it would be firehouses being aimed at them next time.

    All of Asia would screech "It's the 1930"s again!" and pretend that today's Japan is capable and desirous of taking over the Pacific. The Chinese would gain the instant sympathy of the world, with the media's full help.

    I'm...not completely sure you are up to date on China's world image right now.

  • 0

    jansob1

    Blockade? As in threaten them with violence? Board, ram or sink Chinese ships?...the Chinese will be darned sure the Japanese have to fire the first shot. And they won't do it. The second they land a platoon and set up that radio tower, it's over. China will face a short burst of "Oh, now, you need to be more politic in the future" and nothing else.

    China's world image right now isn't as bad as Japan's will be once the Chinese and Koreans make a full-blown "WWII Atrocities" media campaign. China's image is of a growing power that sometimes makes a blunder or two, but is going to be too powerful in the future to p*** off now. They took a hit when they torpedoed Japan's auto market there, but they can afford it more than Japan. They hold all the cards, or will soon.

  • 0

    cabadaje

    Blockade?

    Yep. The time-honored, offensive-defensive strategy, going all the way back to the days of siege warfare and further back to the Great Wall of China, were you really don't have to do too much beyond hold the line.

    As in threaten them with violence?

    Well...no. The whole point of a blockade is that you don't have to threaten. A country that can make a blockade is sending a clear message that unless you are powerful enough to break through, you best get on back home.

    Board, ram or sink Chinese ships?

    Or disable. We do have that option, if we really want to twist the humility knife in deep.

    ...the Chinese will be darned sure the Japanese have to fire the first shot.

    That's what the Chinese have been trying to do for months now. Hasn't worked. By invading the islands, they have effectively declared war with the islands as the prize (which, just taking that sentence all on its own, tells you how silly the whole thing is). When you declare way, it's too late to talk about who fired the first shot.

    And they won't do it. The second they land a platoon and set up that radio tower, it's over.

    Heck, they don't even need to set up a tower; it'll just get jammed anyway. But the moment the platoon lands on the island, the blockade springs shut, and suddenly a platoon of Chinese infantry find themselves on a deserted island with no re-supplies coming in, no enemies to fight, and no communication with the mainland.

    You are quite correct. The second they land, it would indeed be over.

    China will face a short burst of "Oh, now, you need to be more politic in the future" and nothing else.

    That would indeed be a pretty bad-ass thing to say, just to see the look on the PRC's faces when they demand their soldiers back.

    China's world image right now isn't as bad as Japan's will be once the Chinese and Koreans make a full-blown "WWII Atrocities" media campaign.

    Not saying you're right or wrong, however I will point out that we are already three generations away from WWII, and getting sympathy from foreigners isn't going to be very easy. After all, to a third party, war atrocities from Japanese aren't all that different from war atrocities from anyone else, say, China, for instance.

    China's image is of a growing power that sometimes makes a blunder or two, but is going to be too powerful in the future to p*** off now.

    Hmm...No.

    Very much No. I'm not sure just how much No I can emphasize.

    You are correct that China is seen as a growing power, even as a major power, right now. However, power is just one of the qualities needed for global presence. An even greater quality is stability. History makes it very clear what happens to countries with such an unbelievably huge gap between the wealthy elite and the below poverty peasants. On top of that, the government itself has shown itself to be dictatorial in nature, which is not inherently a bad thing, but it only really works when everything is peaceful and everyone has plenty. Unlike certain dystopian novels (and those who blindly follow them) would have you believe, people will only put up with a certain level of bullshit for so long, and when the damn breaks, the whole thing comes down in an anthropological blink of an eye.

    They took a hit when they torpedoed Japan's auto market there, but they can afford it more than Japan. They hold all the cards, or will soon.

    That's the thing of it; you are thinking at the national level. The impact of one country on another. The players here are global. China's entire rise to power is based entirely on the trust of the global players as a stable base for production, and China does not currently have the internal infrastructure needed to support itself on any meaningful level without the income generated from that external source. China may only be thinking about what it might lose with Japan, but the rest of the world is also watching. If China becomes too unstable (in other words, if it graduates college and still acts like a jock frat boy), it will lose its credibility in terms of being reliable for business, and it won't just be Japan, but pretty much all the global player business withdrawing as well. Simply put, if the risk of loss is greater than the potential for profit, it is better to cut your losses and find a better deal. That the country posing the risk of loss is getting more powerful doesn't really lend it any creditability, particularly when that power is directly tied to your willingness to continue working with it.

  • 2

    Ch1n4Sailor

    Good for them... !

    Even though I am NOT a fan of China, I feel this is exactly what the Japanese people need, reminder that even though they might have the biggest case of Amnesia on the planet earth, over their 50 years of Waging War against all of Asia.... The rest of Asia and the world haven't forgotten...

    Now when China starts trying to take Hokkaido or Tokyo, I will be on Japan's side, but until then, Go China! Isshihara, what a racist... A living, breathing, direct descendant of Class 'A' WAR Criminals...

  • 0

    jansob1

    Cabadaje, I hope you are right. Thanks for your perspective.

  • -1

    OssanAmerica

    AsianhometownNov. 17, 2012 - 09:46AM JST First of all, it's not Japan's island...U.N does not recognize it as part of Japan..Last month, England, France, and >German all rejected Japan's Foreign Minister claim to the island and the US has no position. So its NOT Japan's >island...

    I find it hilarious that Chinan supporters often just come out with some amazing alleged "facts". First, please explain just exacly what the UK, France and Germany have anything to do with the owbership of the vSenkakus. Secondly, the UK and France were part of he WWII Aliied powers, as was the Republic of China, which were party of the CAiro and Potsdm agreements all resulting in Japan being able to keep the Senkakus and having them returned by the United States as part of Okinawa in 1972. And bringing up Germany is riot because I think most us know they weren't part of the Allies ion WWII. Finally, and most important;y, plewase post the links from which you cite these nations which have nothing to do with the dispute one way or the other allegedly disaputing Japan's owbership. The U.S. by the way very much has a position, that it will defend it from Chinese invasion. A fact that has Beijing bent out of shape.

    Second..China was willing to leave the status quo as is and allow Japan to continue to administer it until Noda and >the radical right wingers purchased the island..

    This is another of China's big lies. There are 5 islands in he "Senkaku Group". One is owned by a sisterb of the Kuriharas, Japanese civilians. 3 were just bought by the J-govt, the "reason" that China uses to justify it;s tantrum. But the 5th island has always been owned by the J-govt and in fact was uised by the USAF as a live bombing site untll 1978. So perhaps you can answer these two questions; (1) If the J-govt's purchase of the 3 islands is the reason for China going postal, why didn't they before when the J-govt ownedone of the islands? (2) If China has owned these islands since "ancient times" why did thy never complain that the United States was dropping bombs on Chinese territory?

    Before the purchase Chinese Patrol ships were not sailing around the island..third..Japan already lost control of the >island since Chinese ships patrol around the island with no limitation and hinderance from Japan. Japan is not >wiling to use force to kick them out and the US is not willing to get involved so China won..

    China goes9nto Japanese waters for 90 minutes and runs, and that constitues "taking control" to you? Chiona is afraid to land on the islands because then their ships would get arrested and crew deported. China is afraiod to send in PLAN vessels because then not only would the JMSDF respond, butvso would the U.S. 7th fleet. Best not to keep repeating "US Won';t get involkved" whe the US Secretary of Defense and the Sec of State have said hey would IN CHINA to the Beijing leadership.

  • -2

    OssanAmerica

    jansob1Nov. 17, 2012 - 10:19AM JST I seriously cannot figure out why the Chinese haven't just landed troops there. Japan would be subject to a >firestorm of international rage if they tried to retake them by force. All of Asia would screech "It's the 1930"s again!" >and pretend that today's Japan is capable and desirous of taking over the Pacific. The Chinese would gain the >instant sympathy of the world, with the media's full help.

    I guess ou missed the paret where te United States told China that it would defend the Senkakus. China has not send any PLA Navy vesels there because of the fear of engafging the United States. It doesb't get abny simpler than that. You should also be aware that because of China's similar bullying tactics in territorital disputes "All of Asia" is supporting Japan as is the United States and the west.

    The US is not going to go to war over these islands. I don;t think the clear treaty obligations are a sure thing these >days, much less an issue that we officially don;t have a position on.

    The Chinese government clearly disagrees with you.And I am sure they ave far more resources and and intelligence to make such a determination.

    Once the Chinese said the islands were theirs, they were. The Chinese should put 100 marines on the islands, >build a barracks, and all this will blow over.

    \Again. the Chinese government isn't prepared to start a war with the United States,

  • -2

    OssanAmerica

    Chin4SailorNov. 17, 2012 - 06:58PM JST Good for them... ! Even though I am NOT a fan of China, I feel this is exactly what the Japanese people need, reminder that even >though they might have the biggest case of Amnesia on the planet earth, over their 50 years of Waging War against >all of Asia.... The rest of Asia and the world haven't forgotten...

    All of Asia is against China and supporting Japan. All of Asia considers China to be the biggest threat to peace in the region. So does the United States, Austraia, India, etc... Best to get a whiff of the coffee of the day.

  • -2

    CoreyL

    Its funny that even CHINA agreed to shelve the senkaku islands dispute for many years in return for Japanese-chinese cooperation and mutualism. Then suddenly Japan decides to purchase the islands.

  • -5

    YuriOtani

    Ch1n4Sailor he like all of us did not pick our ancestors. Your argument could extend to all of us. The living breathing descendants of Imperial Japan.

    The Senkaku islands are part of Okinawa. If the Peoples Republic wants them, they will need to do it by force. Now they are working up the nerve. It is just a matter of time.

  • -2

    OssanAmerica

    CoreyLNov. 18, 2012 - 04:22AM JST Its funny that even CHINA agreed to shelve the senkaku islands dispute for many years in return for Japanese->chinese cooperation and mutualism. Then suddenly Japan decides to purchase the islands.

    The J-govt always owned one of the 5 islands. Why didn't China make a stink back then? The renaining 4 islands were owened by Japanese civilians. Then the J-govt bought 3 of hgem. What differerence did it make to China's claim and position? None. There's absolutely no doubt that China deliberately escalated this issue as a backdrop for the change in power.

  • 1

    CoreyL

    The J-govt always owned one of the 5 islands. Why didn't China make a stink back then? The renaining 4 islands were owened by Japanese civilians. Then the J-govt bought 3 of hgem. What differerence did it make to China's claim and position? None. There's absolutely no doubt that China deliberately escalated this issue as a backdrop for the change in power.

    Deng specifically told the Japanese that he was willing to shelve the senkaku dispute in order to normalize relations and begin bilateral cooperation back in the 70s and 80s. If the status quo was met the relations between both countries wouldn't be at a historical low. I agree that China did escalate the situation by sending their patrol ships into the senkakus but if the Japanese government hadn't "purchased" the islands, this wouldn't have happened.

  • -1

    nigelboy

    Deng specifically told the Japanese that he was willing to shelve the senkaku dispute in order to normalize relations and begin bilateral cooperation back in the 70s and 80s. If the status quo was met the relations between both countries wouldn't be at a historical low. I agree that China did escalate the situation by sending their patrol ships into the senkakus but if the Japanese government hadn't "purchased" the islands, this wouldn't have happened.

    What Ossan is talking about is PRIOR to the 70's which us before the underwater resources are discovered.

    And who cares who purchased them? The owner and his family was pretty fed up with the threats from Chinese spies where they had to install extra security devices to his home in Saitama. Initially, he wanted to sell them to Tokyo. I wished he had but we'll see what the next cabinet will do with the islands.

  • -1

    Scrote

    If the waters are "disputed" perhaps the headline should be "Chinese and Japanese ships in disputed waters"?

  • 1

    BertieWooster

    Quit beefing, guys.

    China has more claim to Diaoyu (Senkaku) than Japan.

    Look it up in Wikipedia.

  • 0

    Daffy_Duck

    Bertie, Surely you could do better than Wikipedia?

  • -1

    CHAMADE

    China must be continually reprimanded, monitored and effectively contained by all its neighbors, Japan and the West until it begins to behave as expected and recognizes and honors internationally held rules of law, such as those governing intellectual property, currency manipulation, IT hooliganism, high tech theft, transparent government and human rights.

    Japan must continue to defend and protect its homeland, including the Senkakus. And like it or not, the West and America must be prepared to help enforce Japan's position on this and other matters vis a vis a blatantly rogue China.

  • 0

    AkagiRitsuko

    China is a rich kid bully. It isn't respectful, wise or trustworthy, it is courted by some for its wealth and others simply out of fear. The bully is typically a coward, and even a bully of genuine strength has only to be faced with a united front of previous or potential victims and it will be beaten.

    If China has a legitimate claim on the islands, it should conduct itself with more dignity. If not, it should stop trying to intimidate its neighbours as it only throws its insecurities and paranoia into sharp relief. As in the case of the Falklands disputed between Great Britain and Argentina, has anyone given consideration to what the actual residents of the islands desire?

  • -1

    BertieWooster

    Daffy_Duck-san,

    Bertie, Surely you could do better than Wikipedia?

    Sorry, DD (face reddening), I won't do it again.

    Try this one, an excellent article:

    http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/china/2012-10/10/c_131897055.htm

    Or try - dare I suggest - Googling it.

    It does seem that China has prior claim.

  • -1

    BertieWooster

    CHAMADE-san,

    China must be continually reprimanded, monitored and effectively contained by all its neighbors, Japan and the West until it begins to behave as expected and recognizes and honors internationally held rules of law, such as those governing intellectual property, currency manipulation, IT hooliganism, high tech theft, transparent government and human rights.

    I completely agree, but surely, you are not restricting this to China?

    There are several countries that do not honour internationally held rules of law, especially in regard to acts of military aggression. And I can't think of any country with truly transparent government, can you?

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