7 Chinese warships spotted off Japanese island

I hope they are not going to do it anything stupid.

Provocation anyone?

What is Beijing doing? Are the Chinese leaders really this stupid?

"Provocaton anyone ?"

So not unlike Japan and the U.S staging 'Take back the island' drills.

Ewan... they are their own islands, they can stage whatever drills they want to. If they were to have a show of force off the Chinese coast then that would be different.

Japan and the US don't plan to practice the drill using the Senkakus. China is clearly the aggressor as it has been in the numerous other disputes it is involved in.

Japan is standing up to China's bullying, not the other way around. Is Japan threatening to invade China or anywhere else? No! Can't explain any simpler than that.

Yonaguni is an inhabited territory internationally acknowledged as Japanese

So who is in the wrong here? This could al end up very nasty. Anyone who doubts this just remember the Falklands.

As far as I understand, they were moving minding their own business. Close, yes, but no reason to invent hidden motives yet.

Chinese communist government pushing and prodding the limits, trying to establish itself as the local super-power. This part of the world is not getting any safer, especially as US power is declining.

They are not in Japanese waters so let them do what they want to do.

Contiguous waters lie just outside territorial waters and are governed by international maritime law.

What's the big deal then?

I really don't see how this is news, they are legally allowed to transit the area which they are doing so what is the problem?

A Japanese aircraft spotted seven Chinese naval ships in waters 49 kilometers south-southeast of Yonaguni island

So what are the Chinese reporting? "Japanese aircraft spotted lover Chinese island".?

The ministry said the ships were two destroyers, at least one of which had missile capacity, two frigates, two submarine rescue ships and one supply ship.

What are the chances there might be a submarine or two out there too?

The Chinese armada is carrying out 'Re-retaking procedures' if an island has been under occupation of foreign forces! So this is definately a self defense one and there is nothing known as 'spiking tension'! Infact the one that carry out retaking drill was the cause of all tensions in western pacific! By the way, two submarine rescue ships means a flotilla of submarines were uner sea telling the opponets to 'watch yourself'!

Under the United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea (UNCLOS), to which both Japan and China are signatories, foreign vessels, including military ships, have the right to use the contiguous zone.

yeah rightOct. 16, 2012 - 05:20PM JST

I really don't see how this is news, they are legally allowed to transit the area which they are doing so what is the problem?

They are allowed only to transit through the area as pertaining to Japanese laws, as it is still part of Japan. They cannot try fishing or other forms of commerce without following the laws of Japan in regards to those activities. Additionally, Japan can enforce immigration, customs and sanitation laws.

Interestingly, China has always tried to lobby against having them recognized as islands for that very reason, and technically are only considered rocks. As they can support human life, at least the largest one that has an underground well source, they should be considered proper islands or at least the main one considered as such.

What Japan should do is impose a customs charge for transport of fuel, as well as a 10 million yen fine every time they piss into the water or dump garbage. They could easily float billions of yens worth of fines in the week until the Chinese turn around.

Pretty sure those 7 vessels are being monitored by the U.S. side as well as the Japanese. It's like playing war games with the real thing in the crosshairs ...

Remember it was Tokyo mayor Ishihara Shintaro said he wants WAR with China, he spoken to Seiji Maehara and the DPJ know towing to his plot and 'nationalrizing' the Senkakau islets! It was definately japan's faults not China!

Ishihara, grab your rifle and off you go! Japan needs you now more than ever!

Slow news day?? Much to do about nothing! International waters, so??

It's 1890 all over again and the Qin....er..I mean the PRC is believing their own propaganda.

China is a land power that can make sure their soldiers keep moving forward by pointing machine gun on their backs.

But Naval power?

Come on, their ships are few and far between not to mention that they are older than a dirt.

The book - Sengoshi no Shotai (The Truth Behind Post-war History) - states that the US will never remove its military bases from Japanese territory, no matter how much public outcry there is.Mr Magosaki (served as the head of the Foreign Ministry's Intelligence and Analysis Bureau) also said he believes that certain factions in the US would even like to see Japan develop nuclear weapons. Mr Magosaki termed an "offshore balancing strategy" under which neighbouring nations - he named South Korea, the Philippines, Vietnam and Japan - are encouraged to pursue actions to constrain China and its growing regional influence.

"The Senkaku [Diaoyu] issue is part of that strategy,"

Now we see why and how urgency that China need to take japan seriously in actions!

Elbuda MexicanoOct. 16, 2012 - 07:04PM JST

Slow news day?? Much to do about nothing! International waters, so??

Three types of "international waters", this one is the one where Japan can force them to obey certain laws in addition to economic exclusive zone related laws. This isn't the high seas.

Lets not forget that KAL 007 was further out at sea when the Russians shot it down for absolutely no reason. This can certainly go south quickly.

Thanks, Ishihara!

Come on, their ships are few and far between not to mention that they are older than a dirt

They have the third biggest Navy in the world, mostly geared for amphibious warfare, have had an extensive modernization program since the mid 1980's. Don't sell them short.

They have the third biggest Navy in the world, mostly geared for amphibious warfare, have had an extensive modernization program since the mid 1980's. Don't sell them short.

The Military Balance in Asia, 1990-2011

http://csis.org/publication/military-balance-asia-1990-2011

Three types of "international waters", this one is the one where Japan can force them to obey certain laws in addition to economic exclusive zone related laws. This isn't the high seas.

Lets not forget that KAL 007 was further out at sea when the Russians shot it down for absolutely no reason. This can certainly go south quickly.

Nothing is gonna happen, yet. These 7 ships are out in the open, so neither side want to escalate it, yet.

anyway, according to this: "The ships were believed to be returning to China after training in the Pacific."

http://ajw.asahi.com/article/behind_news/politics/AJ201210160060

@Mano2012:

Your link eventually leads to a 100+ page report of mostly graph (which rank China ahead of Japan in almost every field). In short, what are you trying to say?

Your link eventually leads to a 100+ page report of mostly graph (which rank China ahead of Japan in almost every field). In short, what are you trying to say?

I was giving credibility to your statement about "Dont sell them short" ;)

Just-a-big-guy

You seem to forget that China is the one that has been bullying its weaker neighbors (I do not mean Japan).

techallOct. 16, 2012 - 08:05PM JST In short, what are you trying to say?

In short, he is trying to say that China has everything more and better than Japan and will win in a non-nuclear conflict over the islands or anything else. The size and increased military spending by China may indeed create an illusion that China is stronger. However, it is an illusion as China is not protected at all, while most of its power is concentrated in relatively compact areas on the east coast. Japan is protected way better. That is why it is suicidal for China to attack anyone larger than Philippines. The amount of conventional weaponry and personnel plays only a very limited role, as it will be destroyed during first hours of the conflict. China will suffer Unbelievable losses in a hypothetical conflict with Japan, Russia or USA. China is only dangerous if it is militarily backed by Russia, with all the following consequences one may draw by oneself.

vulgar display of power, it plays into both governments hands very well, right around political change. The common enemy is you if you are stupid enough to play along

The book - Sengoshi no Shotai (The Truth Behind Post-war History)

Oh wow...thank you for the link. If it is true, it is very, very tragic for both Japan and China, who are neighbors and have to live with each other....

This is quite shocking, even though many of us suspect that to be the truth. There are simply no reasons for both nations to escalate like this, especially on Japan's part in this latest fracas, after so many years of close trade and economic relations. It's a good thing Dubya was so focused on the NeoCon's Middle East agenda, he neglected Asia and we enjoyed peace and prosperity. With US "pivot" to the Asia-Pacific, there has been nothing but conflicts. We don't deserve this fate, we suffered so much during WW2, we need to stay on the course for peace and stability.

From South China Morning Post:

http://www.scmp.com/news/asia/article/1062029/ex-diplomat-says-sino-japanese-rift-part-us-agenda

"A former Japanese diplomat has accused the United States of manipulating Japan since the second world war in order to "eliminate" prime ministers who sought to develop better relations with Beijing.

Ukeru Magosaki, who also served as the head of the Foreign Ministry's Intelligence and Analysis Bureau, has recently written a book that has soared to the top of Japan's bestseller lists."

In short, he is trying to say that China has everything more and better than Japan and will win in a non-nuclear conflict over the islands or anything else.

lol. Not really. The previous poster was making a comment, probably sarcastic, or did not have a more complete knowledge. ("Come on, their ships are few and far between not to mention that they are older than a dirt)

I simply wanted to supply an objective and publicly available info. ;)

@Mano2012::

Okay, Thanks, just didn't know what you were getting at.

The amount of conventional weaponry and personnel plays only a very limited role, as it will be destroyed during first hours of the conflict.

Where have we seen this assumption before (hint, think 1941)?

mano2012Oct. 16, 2012 - 08:25PM JST lol. Not really. The previous poster was making a comment, probably sarcastic, or did not have a more complete knowledge. ("Come on, their ships are few and far between not to mention that they are older than a dirt)

I understand, they said the same thing about Russia before just one of its armies totally kicked Saakashvili's butt (fully armed by the US and Israel) in three days, with their rusty and old weapons, no less. One should be honest in assessing one's own power. China has strong military, but very poor defense. Something also Chinese government may think about before making a military show.

foreign vessels, including military ships, have the right to use the contiguous zone.

So? what's the problem with JP who's so nervous? Everyone know that somewhere in Taiwan strait is only 70 miles width and hundreds of international ships go through it daily, anyone ever heard Taiwan or China complain?

Thank you, mano2012 and Qwerty2012. This discussion is quite important and one should find a non-violent solution from the current situation. At least, I hope. :)

I do believe that Qwerty2012 puts responsibility on Japanese government, but from the side I can see how Noda's government is running in between Ishihara & Co., Japanese public opinion, Chinese reactions, pressure from the US, wishes of the Okinawa people, which all pull in different directions. What he is doing, creates least amount of fire in the long run.

just-a-bigguyOct. 16, 2012 - 06:24PM JST Remember it was Tokyo mayor Ishihara Shintaro said he wants WAR with China, he spoken to Seiji Maehara and >the DPJ know towing to his plot and 'nationalrizing' the Senkakau islets! It was definately japan's faults not China!

What total utter nonsense. Building a lighthouse doesn't constituite war. The only calls a for WAR have been comming from China.

And those who believe it.,.. "Thanks, Ishihara!

This is how wars start....

@Konsta

I do believe that Qwerty2012 puts responsibility on Japanese government, but from the side I can see how Noda's government is running in between Ishihara & Co.,

There are two scenarios:

1) Japan is so inept in its policies, Noda reluctantly nationalized the islands, ended up bungling the entire issue, dangerously escalating and now the talk of war is palpable.

2) Japan is very astute. With the nationalization of the islands as its goal, Ishihara and Noda played their part to appear as if Japan never intended to escalate the situation, the US played each against the other to constrain and check China, China loses huge stretches of its sea access and the blame is wholly laid at China's feet.

Which do you think is more likely how geopolitics are played?

Wow ! here they go again. Threat and bullying. When will you stop. Your officials don't want to negotiate, they talk threat too much, they deploy your military around the disputed islands etc.. you are like a dog barking and threatening to bite but your tail is between your legs. If you're real intention is war with Japan, then pull the trigger #&%holes and see the consequences. It will be good armaments bizness for Russia and USA. Har...har...har..

"A former Japanese diplomat has accused the United States of manipulating Japan since the second world war in order to "eliminate" prime ministers who sought to develop better relations with Beijing.

A point which seems obvious to anyone who views these things with a critical eye. Hatoyama was dumped for this reason. Kan was Obama's BFF until he advocated for zero nuclear power. Noda is everything the US could possibly want, except he is woefully inadequate for the job of PM.

A point which seems obvious to anyone who views these things with a critical eye.

Not so obvious....90% of the posts and media reports online are resolutely anti-China.

yosunOct. 16, 2012 - 08:44PM JST

So? what's the problem with JP who's so nervous? Everyone know that somewhere in Taiwan strait is only 70 miles width and hundreds of international ships go through it daily, anyone ever heard Taiwan or China complain?

Read up on history man. There have been three Taiwan Strait crises with the most recent in 1995-6 when China finally took over Taiwan politically.

I think people keep forgetting two things:

1) The lands are administered by Japan and therefore Japan has economic exclusivity within 200nm, and rights to enforce customs and immigration within the 24nm currently being used.

2) There is no excuse for an unannounced "training exercise" within the economic exclusivity zone of any other nation. While they are in their right to do so, doing so unannounced or within the contiguous zone is practically declaring preparedness for war.

Not so obvious....90% of the posts and media reports online are resolutely anti-China.

Note my qualification, "...anyone who views these things with a critical eye."

On this board are many advocates for the US. Say anything against America, especially the military, and they show up to spout the talking points without ever addressing the issues. In the general population, most people are either apathetic to the whole thing or they have been conditioned to believe that the media is their trusted ally when, in fact, it most often acts merely as scribes for the government, falsely legitimizing the government's propaganda, lies, and deceptions.

Some people might not realize that China is simply defending with its military but offensive with its economy on Japan and for that we can only see the "real" result on both countries probably in a few months time.

just sabre rattling at the moment

HA HA!!! That's it? That's all the Commies can muster? 7 "Tin Can" Soviet Era Destroyers? Come On Boys! Where's that BIG "All You Can Eat Buffet Table" You Commies call an Aircraft Carrier? BTW, it has no Aircraft...:) Anyway, come on over the fence with your "Tin Cans" and take your Best Shot Cowards!!! We'll send that Commie Fleet to The Bottom of The Sea! Heck, those Dirty Smelly Commie Fishermen got more courage than the Coward Chinese Navy!!

basroil: There is no excuse for an unannounced "training exercise" within the economic exclusivity zone of any other nation.

Pls check the" United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea ", u'll know u're WRONG. EEZ is only for use of marine resources and also needed to be agreed by neighbors who also claim EEZ of the same zone. Also, foreign vessels, including military ships, always have the right to sail in the zone. The reason is very simple, suppose both of CN and JP don't allow others to pass their EEZ, then nobody can sail to Korea!

A democratic mainland China is a friendly China. All else is a threat and trading with those who pose a threat now or in the future is pure self delusional fantasy. Since "we" now have bought and sold more than enough "rope to hang ourselves", to rectify the situation, more PUSH is needed to accelerate the democratization of the mainland. The sooner the better. Waiting and hoping is a fools errand.

A democratic mainland China is a friendly China.

Well, sure. Let's go in there and spread a little democracy...American style. You know, like the US did in Libya, Iraq, Afghanistan, and, soon, Syria and Iran. That's worked out real well. The Middle East is now a garden spot for democracy, peace, and amiable relations.

Actually, that might just be what concerns the Chinese.

Looks like the time of fun and games is over. Patrol ships bumping each other, fire hoses. Now the Communist Chinese are showing what they really want, all of the Ryukyu islands. It has to do with surrounding Taiwan. So they send 7 highly expendable ships, this too might as well have "sink me" on the hulls. Now Japan will have to dispatch ships to keep an eye on them. This is where the mistake factor starts showing up. The "fun" never ends!

yosunOct. 16, 2012 - 10:33PM JST

Pls check the" United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea ", u'll know u're WRONG.

Lets for a second ignore your distaste for the English language and see that I never stated it was "illegal", and in fact stated quite the opposite. I believe it may have been censored at some point, but I specifically said what they are doing is "legal" but against good diplomatic protocol. Now, I said "legal" in quotes because they are likely violating several maritime pollution laws in the release of everything from dummy rounds to human wastes, which under UNCLOS fall under Japan's jurisdiction within the contiguous zone under certain circumstances.

EEZ is only for use of marine resources and also needed to be agreed by neighbors who also claim EEZ of the same zone. Also, foreign vessels, including military ships, always have the right to sail in the zone. The reason is very simple, suppose both of CN and JP don't allow others to pass their EEZ, then nobody can sail to Korea!

Ships have the right of passage and loitering within the economic exclusive zone, as well as the contiguous zone. However, the Chinese have in the past sent armed escorts into the Japanese EEZ to protect illegal fishing ships. The main issue this time is that it's simply abhorrent to hold training exercises without informing the region you will do so in, far worse than having them in the first place.

Lets not forget that China is the largest hypocrite this side of the Arab peninsula: http://news.xinhuanet.com/english2010/china/2010-11/26/c_13624036.htm

And I quote:

"We hold a consistent and clear-cut stance on the issue. We oppose any party to take any military acts in our exclusive economic zone without permission," Foreign Ministry spokesman Hong Lei said in a statement Friday.

"The United States and ROK should not take sensitive and provocative military actions at such a sensitive time and place," said Major General Luo Yuan, a researcher with the Chinese People's Liberation Army's Military Science Academy.

Yes, China complains when other countries use their (disputed, with most of the world agreeing it's south korea's) economic zone (not even contiguous zone as in this case, which is much worse) in a formally announced exercise, yet is perfectly for using other country's contiguous zone (internationally recognized) for clandestine "exercises" .

I seem to recall this can of worms being opened by a certain governor of Tokyo vowing to protect the Senkaku islands himself, as by his reckoning the national government wasn't fit to determine foreign policy.

I look forward to reading of Governor Ishihara making good on his samurai verbiage, girding his loins and setting out to meet the foreign devil aggressors face to face.

Because if he didn't, he'd come out of this mess looking like a right buffoon, wouldn't he? And I cleaned that up.

On this board are many advocates for the US. Say anything against America, especially the military, and they show up to spout the talking points without ever addressing the issues.

Actually, it isn't in the US interest either, wars will further devastate those, Americans, Europeans, Japanese or Chinese, who have suffered economic setbacks. It's like Iraq, the grunts will pay with their lives. Only this time, it may bring about WW3.

That is why EU got the Peace Nobel Prize. Some very smart people from countries with very different horizons, cultures and histories came along to say stop to this madness that was ongoing for centuries.

Hope I will live long enough to see the same happening here (and everywhere in the world). Because this has been proven to be possible!

@basroil: First of all, I'm not here for siding by either CN commie or JP Extremism gov, I basically think both parties are barking dogs. I am talking about the right to use international ocean, and I confirm nobody need to inform EEZ claimer to use the zone! I definitely don't care about " JP maritime pollution laws" for even radioactive polluted seafood as well as meat of whale-for-research can be sold in JP. Also, pls keep on topic, this topic is nothing to do with Arab... Again, because both of CN commie or JP Extremism gov are bad examples, don't waste your time to defend anyone of them because nobody could!

Be patient, Japan.

Don't be provoked, don't be angered, though it seems difficult.

yosunOct. 16, 2012 - 11:36PM JST

I am talking about the right to use international ocean, and I confirm nobody need to inform EEZ claimer to use the zone!

You confirm it? I didn't know you were an UN representative or legal representative of a non-member signatory. Again, it's not about legal rights, it's about diplomacy and not being a belligerent fool. China holds unannounced "naval exercises" every few years when they wish to expand their power, the last was off of the southern seas near Philippines two years back, and another was in the middle of a US naval drill (an accident surely, as the US would have blasted the ship out of the water if they didn't have every expectation that was the case) . While certainly there is no legal need, they have a responsibility to do so to avoid potentially catastrophic consequences.

I definitely don't care about " JP maritime pollution laws"

I'm sure you don't, as it seems China has brain washed every Chinese person into believing that there are no such laws. You can be assured that Japan takes the laws very seriously for foreign vessels.

Actually, it isn't in the US interest either, wars will further devastate those, Americans, Europeans, Japanese or Chinese, who have suffered economic setbacks. It's like Iraq, the grunts will pay with their lives. Only this time, it may bring about WW3.

Those who make the decisions to conduct wars do not actually fight wars. Their interests can not be judged in the same manner as the grunts or the families who suffer from economic hardship because of their wars.

http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/china/2012Diaoyu/2012-10/09/content_15802160.htm

It is very important for Obama to deliver a clear message to end this conflict.

t

It is very important for Obama to deliver a clear message to end this conflict.

This would seem to assume the belief that the US wants this to end or that it is in a position, given all of its conflicts of interests in Asia, to send a message that could end it.

basroilOct. 16, 2012 - 11:57PM JST

You confirm it? I didn't know you were an UN representative or legal representative of a non-member signatory.

Yes, I confirm it. NK/ SK ships never reported to CN or JP to sail to home.

China is being goaded into a common geopolitical play: other countries hem you in, and when you have no choice but to try and regain your territory, the constraining countries label you as "aggressive" and thus have a reason to escalate militarily. Play up the "conflict" in the media, appeal to nationalism and gain the support of the majority of the people. China's lone saving grace is its economic might, otherwise it would've become another Iraq.

Those closest to the war zone will suffer. The Fukushima nuclear crisis will pale as to how many "fly-jin" will leave the area.

AlexNoaburg Oct. 17, 2012 - 01:09AM JST

An astute observation. It was pretty much the same ploy used against Japan in the early 1940s. Who might expect an oil embargo and seizures of financial assets would have caused Japan to push back so hard. Those evil Japanese. Now its the evil Chinese and the evil Iranians. Sadly, Japan plays along with the US without any clear benefits for doing so.

Luiz / BRAZIL

It´s late for US and Japan Armed Forces to guarantee the Diaoyiou Islands possession from CHINA : Nuclear Weapons and more than 1.6 billion people on alert in china alone !! You all better think it over and over for the good sake of the WORLD nowadays . Seek PEACE with China and GOD will bless we all (The WORLD) 10-16-2012 - MrPeaceMakerBrazil

Apparently from US news sites it is typical for Chinese ships to go through this area when returning from the pacific and it's considered "legal." So there's nothing to any of this. Now if they end up anchored off the Senkakus then I would think that was a provocation.

Regarding the origins of WWII in the pacific, Japan had already invaded China and the US had applied sanctions to push the Japanese to withdraw. I'm sure that the Chinese of that era were happy to have some support.

I don't think there is going to be live fire over the Senkakus. There is a big difference between those rocks and Manchuria. It would be nice if the bluff and bluster ended and things got back to normal. But as long as the Chinese government is trying to deflect criticism it's going to carry on.

Problem is we found the ships with a patrol aircraft, usually countries tell other countries when their military ships will be close to their territorial waters. This helps avoid mistakes. Just think how happy the Communist Chinese would be if a Japanese task force appeared so close to Mainland China.

nigelboyOct. 16, 2012 - 11:54PM JST If anything, Ishihara was successful exposing the truth about the unruly thuggish behavior of the Chinese government and their uncivilized population. Now the critics back then don't even bother criticizing Ishihara's comment for they would look foolish if they tried to defend their behavior.

If China is so uncivilized, why don't the 20,000 Japanese companies relocate elsewhere? They are the guest of the China and if they don't like it, you can leave anytime.

Problem is Japan is the only country that is saying they have bogus claim of soverignty of Senkaku/Daioyu. All neighboring countries, Russia, NK, SK, China, or Taiwan does not recognize the soverignty, so what does it matter. Tell me any international countries recognize Japan's claim of soverignty for Senkaku/Daioyu? I know of none.

Luiz /BRAZILOct. 17, 2012 - 01:31AM JST IIt´s late for US and Japan Armed Forces to guarantee the Diaoyiou Islands possession from CHINA : Nuclear Weapons and more than 1.6 billion people on alert in china alone !! You all better think it over and over for the good sake of the WORLD nowadays .

Huh? You have to remember that Japan and China is one of the biggest trading partner in the world with close to $350 billion annually. If there is a war, the China's trade with Japan and the west will be reduced substantially. Japan's economic situation will be dismal. If you remember, it took China and Japan many decades after WWII to get where they are now, and they both have too much to loose. I doubt either one of these countries wants to get to this point and they are trying to minimize accidents that might happen.

Only thing for me to add, is this. If you're American, Japanese or Western European living and working in china now is a good time to consider getting out. We saw this coming a while back and packed our bags and left. Life does not equal money, it's so much more, plus living in a Chinese city is not really living either with all the pollution, poisonous food and fake almost everything.

If China is so uncivilized, why don't the 20,000 Japanese companies relocate elsewhere?

I'm quite sure many are contemplating.

They are the guest of the China and if they don't like it, you can leave anytime.

Not that easy. China has this so-called Civil Procedure law under Article 213 which makes it difficult for businesses and executives to just pack up and leave.

Problem is Japan is the only country that is saying they have bogus claim of soverignty of Senkaku/Daioyu. All neighboring countries, Russia, NK, SK, China, or Taiwan does not recognize the soverignty, so what does it matter. Tell me any international countries recognize Japan's claim of soverignty for Senkaku/Daioyu? I know of none.

Third party countries usually don't take sides when it comes to territorial disputes so "what does it matter"? If Japan's case is "bogus" as you claim, China is more than welcome to bring their case to ICJ.

We all know that Japan does not have sovereignty over the islands and I don’t know exactly why this “administration of Japan” language is used. This is bogus.

We all know that Japan does not have sovereignty over the islands and I don’t know exactly why this “administration of Japan” language is used. This is bogus.

A little reminder. Which country's official "arrested and detained" when a Chinese activist landed on the island? That's not only "administration" but "legal authority" and "legislation" and "jurisdiction" comes to play here. Sounds like "sovereignty" doesn't it?

nigelboyOct. 17, 2012 - 05:08AM JST Which country's official "arrested and detained" when a Chinese activist landed on the island?

Correction. Should read "illegally arrested and detained".

To be honest, I also do not understand the big language play between "administration" and "sovereignty". One can either own the land or do not own. Is ownership equal to "administration" or to "sovereignty"? If Japan owns the islands, it has full right to detain the Chinese captain or attack an intruder. If Japan does not own the islands, but only administers them, it has no right to do so, but has to consult the actual owner. If "administration" is not ownership, then the position of the US towards Japan is ambiguous and questionable. From one side the US claims that the Kuriles are Japanese, fully aware that Japan has no way to claim, own or administer those islands, or even fish in those waters. At the same time, the US does not allow Japan to own Senkakus, which Japan already administers, and which the US swore to defend against anyone else. There is something missing here. One thing, which is clearly missing is the notion of who is the "current owner". It seems clearly not Japan or China, according to the US. If it is US, then the quarrel of China is with the US and not Japan. If the current owner is Japan, then both "administration" and "sovereignty" are secondary to ownership and the US is playing a strange verbal game, giving hope to China, and well, making the two countries fight.

There is something missing here.

Yes...yes, it is. And it is something the US advocates don't want to talk about. The US will always hedge itself. You will know where they stand when they take action. One must not rely on treaties or promises, only actions.

Right now, Obama has to worry about the political ramifications of lying to the American people about Libya with election a couple of weeks away. Look for drone attacks there to enthrall the masses. The Japanese will just have to wait for their knight in shining armor to come save them.

"With US "pivot" to the Asia-Pacific, there has been nothing but conflicts. We don't deserve this fate, we suffered so much during WW2, we need to stay on the course for peace and stability." Can't agree more! Magosaki-san told the truth of that famous "US agenda", actually wise Japanese and Chinese have never believed the Americans' pretentious "good will" but unfortunately at times they had to play along, intl politics. Warships, fishing ships, sail along, just no war please, as Qwerty put it, our people suffered enough, we deserve peace.

techallOct. 16, 2012 - 07:52PM JST Come on, their ships are few and far between not to mention that they are older than a dirt They have the third biggest Navy in the world, mostly geared for amphibious warfare, have had an extensive modernization program since the mid 1980's. Don't sell them short.

You are correct the PRC navy is the third largest, but they are made up of old obsolete Soviet era ships.

The PRC at this time has 80 surface warships a majority of those are from the 1970s and 80s.

It also has around 70 subs more than half of these are are Soviet era/Chinese 1970s subs.

The rest of their forces are made up by coastal boats, amphibious landing crafts and mine warefare ships.

Now if you have ever heard a Soviet ship in action you too may say the same thing I do.

The PRC should just a big red bullseye on their ships as they leave port, because that's all they are.

YuriOtaniOct. 17, 2012 - 02:17AM JST

Problem is we found the ships with a patrol aircraft, usually countries tell other countries when their military ships will be close to their territorial waters. This helps avoid mistakes. Just think how happy the Communist Chinese would be if a Japanese task force appeared so close to Mainland China.

Exactly the issue that many pro-Chinese supporters here have. It's not about legality, rather not being a belligerent bastard.

Problem is we found the ships with a patrol aircraft, usually countries tell other countries when their military ships will be close to their territorial waters. This helps avoid mistakes

The fact is 'Mistakes' has been made, the Tokyo mayor Ishihara Shintaro has stated that HE WANTS JAPAN AT WAR WITH CHINA NOW! He told face to face to the Mr Noda and Mr Maehara has confirmed this in TV! the DPJ has done nothing to stop that 'maverik' but get along with 'nationrizing' the Diayoutai island, that means japan is no longer a friendly nation but a hostile one, Japan has see the Chinese navy is 'belligerent'! and of course no need to notify an enemy state to alert their navy to put our sailors in harms way!

Luiz /BRAZIL

sfjp-Oct 17-2012 -Thank you for the good thinking !! So it´s time for both Japan and China show the world their GREAT Amity also on the GOODWILL and FRIENSHIP grounds !

Peace upon Japan and china for good !! God Bless these great ASIAN countries forever !

The scary bit for Japanese people (I include myself after 23 years here and Japanese wife and kids) is that the Korean coast guard actually killed a Chinese fisherman this week in a dispute over territorial waters, and the Chinese basically said "Well, it was his own fault."

In other words, the Chinese are working to appease the Koreans to keep them onside against the Japanese. Imagine the reaction if the Japanese coastguard killed a Chinese fisherman.