Friday February 17, 2012

DNA tests uncover undocumented whale meat on sale in Japan

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  • 0

    Farmboy

    but there remained concerns that whales were killed illegally or not properly documented.

    So possibly 2 whales WERE documented and killed LEGALLY... Gee guys...really fishing for a story here. Yes, I know whales aren't fish.

  • 0

    Molenir

    Oh God no! No! 2 whales that were murdered for their meat weren't properly documented first! The Sky is Falling!

  • 0

    Scrote

    It's hardly a surprise: the government is well known for lying about the extent of their fishing/whaling activities.

  • 0

    browny1

    This not so much about "OMG, 2 whales murdered.." as just another example of the system failing and deceiving the public once again. Food mis-labelling and other associated deceptive practices have broken many of the Japanese consumers trust and confidence in what they have been lead to believe - naively or not - is a safe and trustworthy system. Any organization lying to it's customers is one not to be believed and trusted period.

  • 0

    Farmboy

    browny1

    I think in this case it's more of a story about how people don't really read these articles, but news agencies post them anyway. The story says:

    Scott Baker, associated director of the institute, said it wasn’t clear where the other two whales came from, but there remained concerns that whales were killed illegally or not properly documented.

    Now, how should we interpret this? Either Scott Baker has clear evidence that there were in fact two illegally obtained, undocumented whales caught and is being extremely wishy-washy about expressing himself, or he doesn't have clear evidence and doesn't want to be held accountable for his statement. I'm guessing it's the latter problem.

    I'm not saying that the documentation is necessarily correct, but I am saying that this report can be rolled up and thrown out with the recycling. There is nothing here or they would have said it in clearly stated words.

  • 0

    thundercat

    Farmboy,

    You are missing the bigger picture. If there isn't enough evidence to clearly state that these whales were killed illegally then getting the story out could be an attempt to get the Japanese government to react. The government's reaction to a story like this could shed light on the situation.

  • 0

    thundercat

    Let's also not forget that this is an endangered species.

  • 0

    smithinjapan

    The J-Police better go over and arrest these guys for 'stealing' the meat the J-government lies and protects under the guise of 'science'.

    This is no surprise.... if they could find even two unreported kills, no doubt there are hundreds more. Will this surface in the Japanese media alongside the reports of the heinous Green Peace crimes? Methinks not.

  • 0

    serindipity

    This comes as no surprise to me either. My only concern is, how much difference will this make? Is there enough damning evidence here to affect the IWC outcome? Even if the IWC rules against the Japanese it is now clear that they are prepared to make illegal captures. Let's see how much mileage Peter Garret can get out of this, if any.

  • 0

    ihope2eatwhales

    In the IHT, it is reported that "Funding for the sampling came from the International Fund for Animal Welfare ...".

    However, it is possible that some extra fin whales were caught in nets around Japan, but not reported. Now, it is legal requirement to report such a catch of a whale, it is quite legal to sell these. So no reason to not report it, unless the rules are not known. Unlikely.

    So, perhaps some whales were hunted, illegally. Possibility of the illegal acts must be investigated. The DNA samples analyzed by this scientist (with IFAW funding) should be submitted to the government, so it can be investigated. It is also perhaps possible that the DNA methods used are imperfect to correctly identify species of whale. Japanese government has registration process for the whales that are sold, so perhaps the "fin whales" were a different species than is suspected by the IFAW funded scientist. Information about where each product was purchased must also be provided, to enable investigation of illegal sales routes.

  • 0

    VoXman

    Its not surprising that the report does NOT jump to conclusions. Without solid evidence of wrong doing, the J-Gov will say that everybody is picking on poor Japan. So by merely reporting what they do know and let you the reader draw your own conclusions, the report has far more damaging effects. The world knows Japan is illegally slaughtering Whales. Reports like this help to hem Japan into a corner where they can no longer deny, deny, deny. The worlds oceans belong to the world, not Japan alone. Just like keeping the abduction (of Japanese citizens in NK) issue alive is important to Japan, many in the world feel that reports like this keep the whale slaughter issue alive and in the face of the J-Gov.

    Anybody read about the Docile Coral Seal in Hawaii? It was just hunted to extinction. The first documented man made animal extinction in history. I believe(?)

  • 0

    VOR

    whoooooops! Either somebody got paid or this is a setup.

    Why Japan risks its reputation internationally at the benefit of its domestic whaling industry is beyond me?

  • 0

    yosun

    If some of you guys really like to eat whale meat, pls just say "yes, it's delicious!" and don't mention some disgusting"scientific whaling program " ...etc. The manner a dirty theft keeps saying he's an honorable scientist.... really make me sick!

  • 0

    RepublicofTexas

    Could the meat have been purchased from Iceland or Norway? Japan does import whale meat, but that's just a guess.

  • 0

    cleo

    Could the meat have been purchased from Iceland or Norway? Japan does import whale meat

    I don't think so. According to reuters, 'The first whale meat sent to Japan in more than a decade by North Atlantic hunters Iceland and Norway is stuck in cold storage without an import licence'.

    http://www.reuters.com/article/latestCrisis/idUSL06683152

    The only way the extra fin whale meat could be from imports is if not all imports are going through the proper channels. - which of course is just as feasible/likely as the possibility that the Japanese are taking more fin whales than they are owning up to. It wouldn't surprise me in the least if the 'souvenir' meat given to the whaler crews that was outed by Greenpeace is undocumented.

    If you're thumbing your nose at the rest of the world anyways, who's gonna worry about a bit of creative bookkeeping?

  • 0

    thundercat

    ihopetoeat

    Are you actually suggesting that Fin Whales could be mistakenly caught in fishing nets? Fin Whales = gigantic!

  • 0

    bushlover

    They could be the left over from last year. Wow. this story really is fish food for the anti-whaling crowd to get on their soap box and start dictating their law to everyone. I'd like proof of the 'endangered species' argument.

  • 0

    Farmboy

    bushlover,

    You mean you want to see if it's on the list, or you want to go on a cruise to count them and make sure? While I agree the story is fish food, the fin whale is on the list.

    http://www.animalport.com/extinct-animals/Fin-Whale.html

  • 0

    Molenir

    Let's also not forget that this is an endangered species.

    Er, no it isn't. Thats what a lot of people fail to understand. Most whales are not endangered, particularly the smaller ones. There are species of whales that are endangered. The Blue whale is a good example, but the Fin is by no means threatened.

    Thats why I don't mind whaling. From my perspective, as long as they're not actually endangering the species, then I see no difference between eating whales or cows.

    And Farmboy, that list you shared is a very poor one. Not only are the most recent counts way off, but they're listing smaller whales as endangered, despite there being populations in excess of 50000. Some of the animals they list are definitely not endangered, while others that are, seem to be missing.

  • 0

    imacat

    In the IHT, it is reported that "Funding for the sampling came from the International Fund for Animal Welfare ...".

    ihope2eatwhales, your funding to post pro-whaling stuff here comes from the ICR, right? What happened to debiddo? You've obviously replaced him, but frankly, his posts were better.

  • 0

    cleo

    Most whales are not endangered, particularly the smaller ones. There are species of whales that are endangered. The Blue whale is a good example, but the Fin is by no means threatened.

    The fin is on the IUCN 'Red List', listed as Endangered.

    It is included in Appendix 1 of the Convention on International Trade in Endangered Species of Wild Fauna and Flora.

    IFAW says that the worldwide population is 'unknown'.

    The American Cetacean Society reckons that there's up to about 60,000 worldwide.

    Does by no means threatened have a new meaning I'm not aware of?

  • 0

    Molenir

    What it means, is with that population level, people are nuts for calling it endangered. Compare that to the previously mentioned Blue Whale, or even more so the Right whale which are legitimately threatened with only a few thousand animals currently.

    Don't get me wrong here, I'm not in favor of just outright lifting the ban on whaling, nor for indiscriminate slaughter. However neither am I in favor of listing animals on the endangered list when there are other species that really are in danger and which need a great deal more attention.

  • 0

    Farmboy

    Molenir,

    I looked at a couple of lists and at Wikipedia. It's on the list. If you have a list of endangered species that doesn't show the fin whale, let's see it...

  • 0

    cleo

    Molenir -

    By that logic, we shouldn't have the Blue whale (5,000~12,000) on the endangered list because there are more of them than there are eg baiji dolphins (close to 0 - last confirmed sighting in 2004).

    And it's OK to hunt the cheetah (less than 15,000 in the wild) because there are even fewer tigers ( estimated 7,000 in the wild).

    Doesn't compute.

  • 0

    ihope2eatwhales

    thundercat,

    You can se Please see recent stranding and entanglement record, kept by Japan's ICR: http://icrwhale.org/stranding0709.htm

    Item "M-1199" is for a fin whale ('nagasu kujira'). It was caught in Iwate, in a large trap net (大型定置網). In accordance with the ministerial ordinance, the DNA sample was taken by ICR, and the whale was sold. This whale was 10 meters, so it was just a baby it seems.

    However, this whale was caught in December, so probably it can not account for the extra whales suggested by this study.

    It is important for IFAW funded researcher to provide DNA information to authorities, so that it can be investigated.

  • 0

    ihope2eatwhales

    Please see the information of fin whale numbers at JWA homepage: http://www.whaling.jp/shigen.html Each summer there are 12,000 fin whales in JARPA research area, alone.

    Also, ICR research suggests the numbers are increasing rapidly http://www.e-kujira.or.jp/iwc/2008santiago/data/images/big/016.jpg

    In a few years time, once the crazy anti-whaling scientists start to do some research as well, even they will come to accept this. Japan is their teacher.

  • 0

    cleo

    ihope2 -

    According to that graph the numbers of fin whale have gone from 5,000 in 1996 to 10,000 in 2002 (but then down again in 2004). While it's good to see an increase, however small, those are not huge numbers.

    I could say my savings have doubled in the last seven days. This time last week I had 100 yen in my piggy-bank. Yesterday I dropped in another 100 yen. I'm rich! Pathetic I know, but on a line with your 'the numbers are increasing rapidly' argument.

  • 0

    thundercat

    Molenir

    Thats what a lot of people fail to understand. Most whales are not endangered, particularly the smaller ones. There are species of whales that are endangered. The Blue whale is a good example, but the Fin is by no means threatened.

    Are you saying that Fin whales aren't endangered because they are not big?! The are the second largest animal in the world, after the Blue Whale. Do you even know what a Fin whale is?

    ihope2,

    Cherry picking random snipits from ICR is never ever going to be convincing. Their entire mandate is to promote whaling under the guise of research! Anyway, thanks for clearing up that mystery about the 'accidental' capturing of the 'baby' Fin whale. 10 meters is tiny compared to the adult size of over 25 meters. Catching one of those giants would be impossible if one was using a fishing net. Do the babies taste better than the adults?

  • 0

    ihope2eatwhales

    thundercat,

    Many western people do not like to accept Japan's ICR data. It is the bias, but it matters not. The data is for us, whale eaters, not the crazy anti-whalers. Even with the data, the anti-whalers are against whaling. I feel sad for Greenland whalers. At the IWC　meeting of last week, Greenland whalers had support of IWC scientific committee to hunt humpback whales. Even so, European anti-whalers refused to allow the whaling. Very poor.

    I did not have the chance to try the young fin whale, but I'm sure it was very scrumptious!

  • 0

    RepublicofTexas

    Japan should reduce her whaling quota, but still be allowed to hunt some whales.

    Their entire mandate is to promote whaling under the guise of research

    The ICR isn't the only organization w/ questionable motives. The IWC betrayed its original purpose of protecting whales to allow for sustainable exploitation in the future.

    The pro-whaling nations accused the IWC of basing these decisions upon "political and emotional" factors, rather than upon scientific knowledge. These nations allege that the IWC prohibits all whaling, even though some in the scientific community have concluded that limited hunting of Minke Whales might be sustainable. They argue the IWC has swayed from its original purpose and is attempting, under the guise of conservation, to grant whales an entitlement to life, absolute protection from being killed by humans for commercial purposes.[28] Non- IWC whaling nations have expressed similar sentiments. Canada withdrew from the IWC after the vote to impose the moratorium, claiming that "[t]he ban was inconsistent with measures that had just been adopted by the IWC that were designed to allow harvests of stocks at safe levels."

  • 0

    thundercat

    RepublicofTexas,

    I would never claim for one second that the ICR isn't the only group with a political agenda. If someone were to base all of their arguments on evidence presented by the Sea Shepherd organization I would also state, without hesitation, that their mandate is political and their motives are questionable as well.

    I was simply pointing out to ihope2eatwhales that he/she is taking such an obviously biased stance by only ever quoting from ICR press releases that nothing they say can be taken at face value.

    ihope2

    "The data is for us, whale eaters, not the crazy anti-whalers." That you can't see the ridiculousness of a statement like this is beyond laughable. I don't think anyone is 'anti-whaler'(anti-whaling is perhaps what you ment?). If you maintain such a beligerant attitude I'm sure soon enough there will be a large 'anti- whale eaters' movement as well! I have long held the belief that whaling, done in a traditional way and in coastal waters is not necessarily a bad thing. The more garbage I hear from you the more I question whether even that should be allowed. Something to think about, eh?

  • 0

    RepublicofTexas

    thundercat,

    Thank you and sorry, my statement wasn't so much a criticism of your statement, but rather an attempt to present an "unbiased" statement in favor of whaling.

  • 0

    ihope2eatwhales

    thundercat,

    Whaling nations are now preparing to set up the new organization. We trust in the data and gathered by our scientists. We need not your permission to catch whales.

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