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IWC talks on Japanese whaling called constructive

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If this is really for "science," Japan should have no problem publishing all of the studies and papers this "science" is supposed to produce. If the majority of these papers turn out to be restaurant menus, they might have some 'splainin' to do.

6 ( +7 / -1 )

There is categorically NO requirement nor justification for lethal research based upon whats been stated by Japan in the past.

There are enough markers for both DNA and MtDNA for population studies to link to migration and inheritance - collected via skin sampling (in many cases skimmed off the surface of the ocean as they shed/slough large amounts of skin). What they eat, enzymic analysis etc all possible via poo sampling.

As crazyjoe says - if there's nothing to hide then publish the data.

6 ( +8 / -2 )

This "research" program has no place in the civilised world

1 ( +5 / -4 )

Japan has hunted whales for a few hundred years, but while other leading industrial nations including the United States and Britain once hunted whales, the practice fell out of favor and by the 1980s commercial whaling was banned.

This statement is vague and non-factual! Yes, Japan has hunted for for a few hundred years. However, it wasn't until after WW2 that large scale commercial whaling was introduced as a source of protein for it's starving population. And, the reason whaling "fell out of favor in the 80's" was because the whale populations had been so badly decimated it was no longer financially viable to hunt them. It only took 30-40 years of large scale commercial whaling to nearly wipe them out. Now, since commercial whaling was banned most whale populations have returned to around 50% of what they were 200 years ago. Some species are doing better and others are not. Most of the larger species of whales have very slow reproduction rates and if commercial hunting was allowed their populations would crash very quickly, as they did in the past. Japan wants to focus their hunt on the 'some-what abundant' Minki whales, buy they cannot prove the hunting the populations are sustainable. Furthermore, they are looking at whaling as a commercially viable business and the only way to do that is by large scale slaughter possibly upwards of 10,000 whales per year if they are given the go ahead. This would only take a few years to decimate the populations again. However, the real farce is, there is no market for such large quantities of whale meat. The purchase of 1,700 tons of meat from Iceland is onlt a political move to gain solidarity from another whaling country and also to use as fodder for their desire to return to commercial whaling. Japan is wasting 10's of millions of tax payers money on this frivolous pursuit and they just can't accept the IWC will never allow them to go back to large scale commercial whaling.

6 ( +8 / -2 )

So the IWC is still not doing its job and fulfilling its charter of scientifically determining if commercial whaling of specific species can once again be viable yet will hinder nations who are effectively doing it for them. SMH.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

Does "constructive" mean "paying money"?

1 ( +2 / -1 )

The problem is that the majority of Japanese men still think that whale meat is an aphrodisiac. It is supposed to taste appalling yet they still keep buying it for their wives.

-7 ( +2 / -9 )

Aphrodisiac? A bizarre and completely untrue assertion. Whale meat is rarely if ever consumed by the average person in Japan, and you would be hard pressed to find it in any supermarket. The government foists it onto the menus of nursing homes, public schools, and government offices to funnel public money into the coffers of the whaling industry. Even with these public subsidies, however, they are still in the red with freezers full of decades old stockpiles of whale meat that noone wants to buy.

4 ( +6 / -2 )

Nicholas TeeJun. 06, 2015 - 12:06PM JST

The problem is that the majority of Japanese men still think that whale meat is an aphrodisiac.

Nicholas who made you believe "the majority of Japanese men still think that whale meat is an aphrodisiac"?

The problem I see here is that there seems to be someone who is trying to spread untrue "rumor" through your mouth. My cordial advice to you is "Don't fall victim to manipulation by hate groups." You should verify whatever the person who made you believe that piece of BS says.

5 ( +5 / -0 )

Bradley Fried

Whale meat is rarely if ever consumed by the average person in Japan, and you would be hard pressed to find it in any supermarket.

Completely untrue assertion, as you say. Every single supermarket, both local and chain operated, that I've been in where I live sells whale meat, both sashimi and bacon, in their seafood sections, not to mention every seafood store (sakanaya). Whale meat is also on the menu of a majority of the better izakayas here in one form or another as well as a choice at every one of the sushiyas I frequent. Whale is obviously not eaten in the same quantities as other seafood like maguro, sake, tai, katsuo, etc. but it's a myth that it's not eaten by the "average Japanese" in significant amounts.

-5 ( +0 / -5 )

Every single supermarket, both local and chain operated, that I've been in where I live sells whale meat, both sashimi and bacon, in their seafood sections

It must be a regional thing then, because I have never seen it for sale in any of the supermarkets where I live, or have lived. There's a ramshackle 'restaurant' (aka a wooden shack) by the main road on the way to the next town that has 'whale meat' hand-painted on the wall beside the door, which I assume serves whale meat, but that's it. And I don't see anyone beating a path to its door, or allowing the proprietor to make enough profit to do the place up.

it's a myth that it's not eaten by the "average Japanese" in significant amounts

Strange then, if so many people are eating it in significant amounts, that the freezers remain full and are getting fuller, despite the drop in catch thanks to SS. None of the 'average Japanese' I know have ever expressed any desire to buy or eat whale meat.

As for 'the majority of Japanese men think that whale meat is an aphrodisiac' - you've been had, Nicholas.

3 ( +4 / -1 )

Completely untrue assertion, as you say. Every single supermarket, both local and chain operated, that I've been in where I live sells whale meat, both sashimi and bacon, in their seafood sections

I agree with Cleo that it must be regional - I never see whale meat in the supermarkets here.

Whale meat is also on the menu of a majority of the better izakayas here in one form or another

I suppose it depends on what you define as a better izakaya, but I rarely see it on izakaya menus either.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

cleo

You live in Tochigi right? One of the very few totally landlocked Japanese prefectures? I have a lot of family there and spent a lot of my childhood there, so I mean no offense, but I hardly think your neighborhood is a good sample for judging seafood tastes of the average Japanese when the average Japanese lives in a coastal prefecture where larger varieties and quantities of seafood are eaten. I guarantee you that people in Tochigi, Gunma, Yamanashi, etc. have never heard of half of the seafood that's eaten in coastal areas like where I live.

Strange then, if so many people are eating it in significant amounts, that the freezers remain full and are getting fuller, despite the drop in catch thanks to SS.ese.

And 1700 more tons inbound from Iceland! Another indicator that the Japanese aren't consuming whale meat? Hmm?

1 ( +3 / -2 )

I just asked my wife - she says she sometimes sees whale meat at the grocery store, but pretty rarely.

We live about 2 km from the ocean.

0 ( +3 / -3 )

I have never seen it for sale in any of the supermarkets where I live, or have lived.

So in addition to Tochigi, that would be Chiba and Toyama, neither of which are landlocked. Also frequent trips to the local supermarket with in-laws in Tokyo, also not landlocked. No whale. Not that the in-laws would ever think to search it out - it ain't food for them.

And 1700 more tons inbound from Iceland! Another indicator that the Japanese aren't consuming whale meat? Hmm?

More an indication, I should think and as others on that thread have suggested, of an attempt to gain some sort of solidarity from the only other countries hunting whales commercially, with Iceland and Japan expressing bloody-handed solidarity and giving the symbolic 'middle finger' to the world and rationality.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

1980s commercial whaling was banned.Norway and Iceland ignore the ban, OK why have they not been arrested? or questioned by the IWC?

-2 ( +2 / -4 )

Because they don't go to Antarctica to whale

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

"Whale," as we say in Texas - "A-la, mo!" (wait a minute, that's Japanese... lemme ask "Baron Kishi" how this came about!)

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

There is nothing in the Antarctic Treaty that says whaling is prohibited. Each signatory country is free to carry out scientific research which is what Japan has been doing. Like it or not. Go Japan!!!.

-2 ( +3 / -5 )

USNinJapan2: "I guarantee you that people in Tochigi, Gunma, Yamanashi, etc. have never heard of half of the seafood that's eaten in coastal areas like where I live."

So, all these prefectures that have "never heard of half the seafood that's eaten in coastal areas like where (you) live", but you think the average Japanese eats significant amount of whale meat?

"And 1700 more tons inbound from Iceland! Another indicator that the Japanese aren't consuming whale meat? Hmm?"

We all know that's political, and political only. It is FACT there is a surplus of whale meat in the freezers that they cannot sell, with some being forced into children's mouths through school lunches, so why would they need to order more except, as been pointed out, as a political move and a show of solidarity with Iceland? If there was a shortage, you'd hear complaining, like you do with a product ACTUALLY in demand, like butter. But not a single complaint about a lack of whale meat to be heard. And where I am I've only seen it once sold in a supermarket, and that supermarket only sold it because they sell a weird selection of unusual things. Not one person bought it, even after it was discounted a few times, and then suddenly after the expiration date (I checked it), the whole lot was gone. Talked to the owner about it, not at all talking about our views on whaling -- I have spoken to him quite a lot because I buy mussels from him -- and he said he tossed them because no one bought it. He also added he wouldn't be buying it again. Never seen it otherwise (except at two different izakayas.

1 ( +4 / -3 )

For 99% of Japanese, whale meat is "weird food".

It's in the same category as ostrich meat or alligator meat... something like that.

How many Japanese housewives are wondering... "Hmm... what shall I prepare for the family dinner tonight... I know... whale meat!" ?

Answer... almost none.

In Japan, especially among young people, whale meat is a niche food... it's weird food.

Maybe they will try it an izakaya for a laugh...

And, when they do try it, most Japanese people will think... "Hmm... not bad... tastes OK... but not fantastic... I won't be having it again soon".

That's the typical attitude to whale meat in Japan.

Of course you get some right wing Japanese extremists (some of them are posting here on JT) who will say whale meat is delicious and it's our precious Japanese "food culture" etc...

They have been somewhat brainwashed by the Japanese media into hating non-Japanese people and, for them, pretending to love whale meat is a part of their knee-jerk reaction against foreigners.

Also, when the Japanese media tells them to think something is delicious they will say it is delicious, even if it tastes really bad and, in truth, they don't like it!

I have noticed that some Japanese people, and in particular Japanese right wing extremists, are very suggestible to whatever they are told by the media. They can't seem to think for themselves.

Anyway, whale meat is a niche food in Japan and will always remain that way.

1 ( +5 / -4 )

choiwaruoyajiJun. 06, 2015 - 11:53PM JST

Anyway, whale meat is a niche food in Japan and will always remain that way.

So, why don't we end the moratorium of commercial whaling and let market decide? If what you said is true, there is almost no demand for whale and commercial whaling would disappear soon. No problem for you. In addition, the moratorium is 25 years over due now. https://archive.iwc.int/pages/view.php?ref=3606&k=&search=&offset=0&order_by=relevance&sort=DESC&archive=0

IWC Schedule

10 (e) Notwithstanding the other provisions of paragraph 10, catch limits for the killing for commercial purposes of whales from all stocks for the 1986 coastal and the 1985/86 pelagic seasons and thereafter shall be zero. This provision will be kept under review, based upon the best scientific advice, and by 1990 at the latest the Commission will undertake a comprehensive assessment of the effects of this decision on whale stocks and consider modification of this provision and the establishment of other catch limits.

By the way, sashimi of whale tastes really good. It tasted better than any other sashimi I have ever eaten. I know you will never admit it, though.

-2 ( +3 / -5 )

By the way, sashimi of whale tastes really good. It tasted better than any other sashimi I have ever eaten. I know you will never admit it, though.

I've has it a bunch of times. I wouldn't agree it's the best by far. I'll take a chuutoro, an ootoro or a nice piece of salmon any day. Whale is just ok, nothing special.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

sashimi of whale tastes really good

This is an example of what I am talking about...

Right wing Japanese people trying to pretend whale meat is fantastic.

I've had whale meat sashimi 3 or 4 times with coworkers.

It was OK... not bad... but not fantastic.

As Strangerland correctly observes, other types of sashimi are better.

There is so much media brainwashing in Japan. It makes me laugh.

-1 ( +3 / -4 )

As Strangerland correctly observes, other types of sashimi are better. There is so much media brainwashing in Japan. It makes me laugh.

I have never heard J media says that. The whale issue seldom becomes news in Japan. The Japanese are not interested in whale and don't understand why the westerners are so much obsessed with it that telling another country not to eat it. Maybe it is the westerners who are brainwahed from their childhood that whale is intelligent or whatever.

-2 ( +2 / -4 )

Tina Watanabe:

Taiji people, other Japanese people, and the government have their own beliefs in Japan. Those SS crew you met have no right to come to another country and sabotage what the Japanese people believe.

What SS is doing is not a noble cause Luce-A. Japan is having less respect for the westerners over this.

http://www.japantoday.com/category/national/view/sea-shepherd-seeks-u-s-court-injunction-against-japanese-whaling#comment_1988188

I have never heard J media says that. The whale issue seldom becomes news in Japan. The Japanese are not interested in whale and don't understand why the westerners are so much obsessed with it that telling another country not to eat it.

So in one article you say many Japanese lost respect for westerners over their anti-whaling stance, but not you claim most Japanese don't care or know about whaling. Care to explain?

Heck, you don't even eat whale, so why on earth do you so adamantly support whaling? After all, even you concede it contains dangerously high levels of mercury.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

Care to explain?

Sure. The Japanese are not interested in the whale. It is just one of animals. That is Japan's belief. Many Japanese have lost respect for the westerners who force their belief on the Japanese. Why can't you practice your belief in your country not in another country?

Heck, you don't even eat whale, so why on earth do you so adamantly support whaling?

I eat it if I find in Izakayas in support of Japan's culture since people like you started forcing your culture on Japan..

After all, even you concede it contains dangerously high levels of mercury.

I don't think it dangerously high. The older generations wouldn't have lived so long if it were so dangerous.

-3 ( +2 / -5 )

I have never heard J media says that.

Say what?

I think you might be confused about the point that is being made.

The whale issue seldom becomes news in Japan.

That's not true.

Whenever there is news about whaling that affects Japan, it is in the news.

I often see news on Japanese TV and in newspapers about whaling.

When the ICJ ruling was made, whaling was all over the news in Japan.

And the funny thing was... there was only one side presented... Japan vs the world.

That's what makes us laugh...

Do all Japanese think the same about whaling?

For example, in my country we have fox hunting... some people agree with it, other people disagree with it.

People think for themselves and decide their own opinion.

However, in Japan, the media presents the whaling issue as "Japan vs the World" and there is no range of opinion in Japan.

That's what makes us think... the Japanese are brainwashed by their media...

1 ( +4 / -3 )

That's what makes us think... the Japanese are brainwashed by their media...

Why do you compare with England and conclude anything about Japan? How can J media brainwash the people if they only covers ICJ ruling? Most Japanese never heard of whales until you guys started making noise in Japan. Admit it it is you that are brainwahed in your country otherwise you don't come to another country and try to change the locals into your way of thinking unless you are not brainwashed. Go practice your belief in your country if it is so important for you.

-3 ( +2 / -5 )

Sure. The Japanese are not interested in the whale. It is just one of animals. That is Japan's belief. Many Japanese have lost respect for the westerners who force their belief on the Japanese.

If Japanese people do not care about whaling, then why would they lose respect because foreigners criticize japan's whale hunt? ridiculous.

Why can't you practice your belief in your country not in another country?

Back at you: why can't japan hunt whales in Japan and not in international waters? One set of rules for foreigners and another set for japan, isn't that right Tina?

I eat it if I find in Izakayas in support of Japan's culture since people like you started forcing your culture on Japan..

People like me forcing my culture on you? Haha that's a laugh. You don't even know my "culture," and for the record I have very mixed emotions about whaling. Please, educate stupid gaijin like me; for how many centuries have the Japanese people been traversing the southern hemisphere in search of whales, for the people of Japan to eat? I'd love a link. Seriously, I've got a long ride home and it would make a fascinating read :)

On another note, Japan is a capitalist country, correct? If people actually wanted to eat whale, wouldn't they buy it at an izakaya regardless of cost? But it's not exactly common in Japan; Japanese people don't even want to eat the stuff.

I don't think it dangerously high. The older generations wouldn't have lived so long if it were so dangerous.

So if it's not dangerous, why does the government tell breastfeeding mothers not to consume it and for the general population to eat only very limited amounts? (No more than 60-120 grams a week if my memory serves me correctly.

0 ( +3 / -3 )

Most Japanese never heard of whales until you guys started making noise in Japan.

This is just ridiculous.

The Japanese government is always going on about "Japan's precious whaling food culture" and how important eating whale meat is for the Japanese people.

If that's not true and most Japanese have never heard of whales, you have to speak to the Japanese government... their propaganda is mistaken!

Admit it it is you that are brainwahed in your country

I don't mean to be rude, but are you having trouble understanding the English in this thread?

I am saying... in my country...about any topic we have a range of opinions.

When this topic appears in the media, for example on TV, we see people who agree with it AND people who disagree with it.

As for whaling in Japan... the media never shows any Japanese person who disagrees with it.

Why is that?

Is it always presented as "Japan vs the World" ?

Do all Japanese people think the same about this issue?

120 million people, all with exactly the same opinion?

Are Japanese people not allowed to disagree with whaling?

I watched the whaling topic on Ikegami Akira's news program. I thought it might be balanced and he would try to teach us both the the "for and against" arguments without bias.

But even his news program took the "Japan vs World" stance.

"Why are these foreign people being nasty to poor little Japan"

I was shocked that even his news program was so biased.

So when we see this biased media coverage, for us, it is very funny and childish media and it seems that the Japanese people are being brainwashed on this issue...

-1 ( +4 / -5 )

You guys came to Japan, where people eat whales/dolphin before you came, and demand the Japanese not to eat them? Can't you tell how ridiculous you are? I even suspect your intelligence.

Go home, we don't like you whoever force your culture/belief/religion on Japan.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

cardsfan

If Japanese people do not care about whaling, then why would they lose respect because foreigners criticize japan's whale hunt? ridiculous.

The Japanese do not care about whale like you do, so they eat the whale. The Japanese lost respect for the westerners because they are not being objective and fair on many things.

why can't japan hunt whales in Japan and not in international waters?

The international waters are not British waters. It is not illegal.

Please, educate stupid gaijin like me; for how many centuries have the Japanese people been traversing the southern hemisphere in search of whales

I don't feel like to search, I don't see any relevance.

Japanese people don't even want to eat the stuff

.I do. Did you ask all the Japanese? There are many kinds of foods not many Japanese want to eat, but still exist as food in the market.

why does the government tell

The govt tell many things for instance they say how much we should eat tuna, red sea bream, etc. but I don't care.

-3 ( +3 / -6 )

the freezers remain full and are getting fuller

A full freezer getting fuller? Sounds like a bit of hyperbole there.

I have seen people say here that there is "5,000 tons" of "unwanted" meat in storage, but when I looked at the figures now, they show only 1,535 tons in storage.

The most plausible explanation for this decrease is that those supplies are being gobbled up.

Interestingly, the same figures show that every other item in frozen storage is held in greater quantity than is the case for whale. The total stockpile of frozen foods was 768,788 tons. It's a wonder they even bother to include whale in the statistics at all, given the minuscule quantity of it.

Figures here: http://www.market.jafic.or.jp/suisan/file/reizo/2015/09_syuyou_2015_03.htm

0 ( +2 / -2 )

fxgai: The most plausible explanation for this decrease is that those supplies are being gobbled up.

It'd cost money to keep stuff they can't sell at freezing temperature. And the old stuff can get freezer burn.

-3 ( +1 / -4 )

OK, let me tell you the Truth about all this. Japan could simply withdraw from the International agreement so that the Japanese whalers could go whaling as Norway, for example. But then the government could not subsidize whaling under the name of research. The fact is that whaling is not economic for Japan; the demand is not high and the costs are higher potential profit for non-publicly funded companies. So go make up your mind what is going on in the scene of Japanese politics ...

1 ( +2 / -1 )

choiwaru

The Japanese government is always going on about "Japan's precious whaling food culture" and how important eating whale meat is for the Japanese people.

Really? I remember only once Abe said something like that on TV in my entire life when US ambassador demanded Japan stop hunting. Why did Japan have to explain it when not criticized?

their propaganda is mistaken!

No evidence of propaganda. I think you should trust the Japanese people more in general.

As for whaling in Japan... the media never shows any Japanese person who disagrees with it. Why is that?

Because there hardly any. And that shows how much you are doing the wrong thing, forcing your western culture on Japan.

Is it always presented as "Japan vs the World" ?

The most Japanese support whale hunt, so Japan vs the west, isn't it?

I was shocked that even his news program was so biased.

Why do you call it "biased" when you westerner find something different in Japan? It is not "biased" if Japan did not accept what the westerners demand. It is "defending Japan's culture".

Japanese people are being brainwashed on this issue...

How the Japanese people are brainwashed into not particularly interested in? I'm confident you are the one growing up being brainwashed as if whale were cute and intelligent.

-4 ( +1 / -5 )

How the Japanese people are brainwashed into not particularly interested in? I'm confident you are the one growing up being brainwashed as if whale were cute and intelligent.

Because as previously mentioned on this thread - the government only presents one viewpoint. Its own

0 ( +1 / -1 )

@tina

I'm confident you are the one growing up being brainwashed as if whale were cute and intelligent

Brainwashed into thinking whales are intelligent by who? Those sneaky biologists with their scientific studies?! Come on Tina, we just the other week had a lengthy debate triggered by your claim that dolphins are stupid. Let's not do it again about whales! The animals are intelligent. I'm not saying that as an argument against hunting them - just as a scientific point. I provided you a good list of cetacean intelligence studies; you still haven't read them? I remind you that you eventually withdrew your comment about dolphins being stupid, and given that I'd suggest that you stop saying dolphins or whales lack intelligence - it weakens your argument.

As for them being cute, cuteness is completely and utterly irrelevant - and I don't think they are cute anyway!

The most Japanese support whale hunt

Most Japanese are indifferent to the whale hunt.

so Japan vs the west, isn't it?

No, it isn't. It's whalers vs anti-whalers. There are western whalers and Japanese anti-whalers.

May I ask how you feel about the government spending so much of our taxes on a pointless Antarctic whaling program (pointless in that demand could comfortably be met through coastal whaling alone) at a time when the pension pot is running dry and people in Tohoku are still living in temporary housing?

0 ( +2 / -2 )

turbotsat: I think it's more plausible that they actually sold it, and that's why the stockpile is only 1,500 tons now, not that they dumped meat they had because they couldn't sell it.

1,500 tons. It's a mere boatload.

News the other day was that Iceland was transporting a similar amount to Japan. Some people were saying that the Japanese government is behind it, as they want to politically support their whaling allies. But again, I think it's more plausible that there is simply enough demand that makes it attractive for the Icelanders to send a boatload of the stuff here.

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

Brainwashed into thinking whales are intelligent by who?

choiwaru said the Japanese were brainwashed, so I said it is not the Japanese that's brainwashed but the westerners are.

Most Japanese are indifferent to the whale hunt.

That's the evidence that the Japanese are not brainwahed. You can't brainwash people into infifference. But the Japanese are becoming less and less indifferent since the westerners started forcing their perception on Japan.

There are western whalers

Yes, and those are not bashed because of you know what.

and Japanese anti-whalers.

Where? I have never met such people in my life. I imagine some Japanese working for green peace, or some Japanese who don't want to hurt the feeling of westerner friends or English teachers to maintaine the relationship? Why does Japan have to be concerned such a small % if any of total population?

May I ask how you feel about the government spending so much of our taxes on a pointless Antarctic whaling program (pointless in that demand could comfortably be met through coastal whaling alone) at a time when the pension pot is running dry and people in Tohoku are still living in temporary housing?

Nasty thing bring up the unfortunate Japanese people for your westerners cause. Many Japanese would feel the govt's spending on this( if any) is right things to do when the westerns are forcing their white culture on the Japanese.

-5 ( +0 / -5 )

May I ask how you feel about the government spending so much of our taxes on a pointless Antarctic whaling program

The western strategy makes it politically impossible for the government to do much else, given the circumstances.

From my point of view the government should quit the IWC and issue sustainable whaling permits independently.

This could eliminate the drop-in-the-ocean that funding for whaling represents. But the government doesn't want to quit the IWC because quitting international organizations isn't what Japan does these days.

Meanwhile the western governments (in the reverse political situation, having to cater to people who actually think this is an issue) could continue to complain their heads off about it, just like they do now.

Everybody would come out a winner this way, except the bureaucrats who love to turn up for IWC meetings in various exotic places.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

Why does Japan have to be concerned such a small % if any of total population?

That's a good question. Why is Japan so concerned with such a small percentage of the population who is pro-whaling when it's so small?

-2 ( +1 / -3 )

Everybody would come out a winner this way, except the bureaucrats who love to turn up for IWC meetings in various exotic places.

fxgai, the bureaucrats would not give up exotic place meetings just to save the Japan's culture.

-1 ( +2 / -3 )

Hi Tina.

choiwaru said the Japanese were brainwashed, so I said it is not the Japanese that's brainwashed but the westerners are

A westerner said something you didn't like so you just said the opposite? That isn't a very effective way of refuting what they said.

That's the evidence that the Japanese are not brainwahed. You can't brainwash people into infifference

Ok, but please remember that I haven't said the Japanese are brainwashed; another westerner said that but it isn't an opinion I have voiced and you can't lump us westerners all in together. I do think the Japanese media is failing the Japanese people with its very one-sided coverage, but I know lots of Japanese who don't buy it hook line & sinker. Which brings us on to:

Where? I have never met such people in my life. I imagine some Japanese working for green peace, or some Japanese who don't want to hurt the feeling of westerner friends or English teachers to maintaine the relationship?

I have met many such people; I know many such people. There are lots of Japanese who are against whaling, whether you like it or not. They tend to be very careful about saying it too loud though; those that do campaign on the issue are subject to abuse and intimidation from uyoku groups.

Why does Japan have to be concerned such a small % if any of total population

It's concerned about the tiny fraction of the population who conduct whaling and eat the meat. The fraction who are against it is far larger than the fraction who are actively involved in whaling.

There are western whalers

Yes, and those are not bashed because of you know what

No, I don't know what. What? Please specify.

And besides, they most certainly are bashed. We're talking about Norway and Iceland, and they get huge amounts of criticism just like Japan does - especially Iceland for its fin whale hunts. The fact you don't read it here or on other Japan-centric sites, is precisely because they are Japan-centric sites. Mainstream English language newspapers frequently print articles criticizing Norway & Iceland.

Nasty thing bring up the unfortunate Japanese people for your westerners cause

You're avoiding the question, but I'm not being nasty bringing up Tohoku; in the last 4 years I have spent a good deal of my free time volunteering in Miyagi following the tsunami, and have given good deal of my blood, sweat and tears (mostly sweat!) taking part in recovery activities. And I am genuinely furious that the government wastes money sending ships to Antarctica to turn whales into frozen meat when there are still people in temporary housing. Have you seen life in temporary housing Tina? I have, and I think it's a disgrace for the government to waste that money when there are rather more pressing concerns. Don't you?

Many Japanese would feel the govt's spending on this( if any) is right things to do...

If any?! Tina, do some research, the government spends billions of yen running annual whaling fleets to the Southern Hemisphere. Don't you think it could be better used? Please ignore the fact you're being asked by a foreigner, and answer the question from an economic perspective.

...when the westerns are forcing their white culture on the Japanese

Nasty thing to mention skin colour in a discussion about whaling. Race has nothing to do with it.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

@Yoshitsune

I don't believe those papers.

@zichi

I know your position, that's why I said "even zichi" and "better"

The majority of Japanese don't like being told by other countries to end their whaling.

The majority of what country don't mind being told by other countries what to do? I think you might be killed in some countries if you do that for such a long time as you do in Japan.

-5 ( +0 / -5 )

Tina.

I don't believe those papers

The Guardian didn't conduct the survey. It was conducted by the Nippon Research Center and reported around the world by many papers. Furthermore, the survey shows more support for whaling than against it, so it's a bit self-defeating of you to insist on not believing it simply because you've unfairly accused me of lying and don't want to backtrack.

The JT article didn't even make any accusations for you to not believe. It discusses activism in Japan. I'm not convinced you even read it before saying you didn't believe it.

In any case, if you point blank refuse to believe or discuss any link I provide, there's not much I can do about it. But do not imply that I'm lying; it's downright rude.

Also do you think you could be polite enough to address (or even just acknowledge?) this:

I've asked you a question Tina, twice already (actually three times now), please be good enough to address it in your next reply; once again, from an economic perspective, don't you think it's highly questionable for the government to spend billions of yen on annual Antarctic whale hunts when there are more pressing concerns in Tohoku, the pension department, and elsewhere? (especially when the demand for whale meat could easily be met by coastal whaling without any need for the Antarctic program)

I'm not attacking you Tina, please answer the question; I'm interested to know what you think!

And you still haven't explained what you meant by:

There are western whalers

Yes, and those are not bashed because of you know what

I know what? I'm afraid I don't. Please specify!

And, like I said, Norway & Iceland do get criticized (especially Iceland). Here are some mainstream media reports of Iceland being criticized by other western nations & organizations:

http://www.newsoficeland.com/politics/foreign-affairs/item/433-barack-obama-wants-iceland-to-stop-whaling

http://www.greenpeace.org.uk/blog/oceans/26-governments-protest-icelands-continued-whale-hunt-20091002

http://www.express.co.uk/comment/columnists/stuart-winter/400086/The-brutal-reality-of-whaling-in-Iceland-Sea-turns-red-to-satisfy-the-lust-of-gourmets

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/09/15/us-iceland-whaling-idUSKBN0HA1Z020140915

Are you prepared to acknowledge that it was incorrect of you to claim that western whalers don't get bashed? Even if you won't acknowledge it, it is clearly the case.

I'm not here to attack you Tina, I'm trying to have a constructive discussion. So I wonder, what do you think about the fact that Iceland is criticized much more than Norway? Interesting don't you think? Why could it be? Clue - nothing to do with race.

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

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