Japan bribed small nations with cash, call girls to get whaling vote: Sunday Times

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  • 0

    DenDon

    arararara what a kerfuffle

  • 0

    timorborder

    Unfortunately, this is not news. It has been an open secret for many years. Indeed, such activities are just an extension of the manner in which Japan has conducted its ODA program for a very long time.

  • 0

    Tessa

    I agree, this has been talked about for many years. Why report on it now?

  • 0

    Zenny11

    Don't know why this is even news.

    It happens everywhere in busines, politics, etc. I had those offered to me too to get a deal through smoother.

    Who is more despicable the guy offering or the guy taking advantage of it? There is always an option to say NO to ANY offer.

    We all know that sex and money greases the wheels that make the world go round.

  • 0

    Stoker

    Sounds like an biased account of Japanese political tradition.

  • 0

    neverknow2

    Actually now that I think about it, they should have used that money to bribe some of the teams that are going to beat them badly in the world cup. It would have been money well spent because they will continue to hunt whales until the USA tells them not to.

  • 0

    goddog

    Sounds cool to me. I would have asked for 2 grand a two escorts. Business is business. Shoganai na

  • 0

    paulinusa

    "happens everywhere" "not news" Maybe, but were these details reported in the Japanese newspapers?

  • 0

    Tessa

    I've found the article in question: http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article7149086.ece The name of the Tanzanian will make you smile, if you hail from Osaka!

  • 0

    Mikanojo

    Ikkyou.. sex sells things! Shocking yes?

  • 0

    Zenny11

    Don't need to be reported, most people know what goes down.

    How many top-business execs would to like come back from finalising a deal and have known that call-girls, possible drugs, etc were involved. Sure their families and wifes would be happy to know.

    It is known as a "gentlemens agreement".

    Not saying all deals are like that but there are many, many deals like that.

  • 0

    jam_sandwich

    Zenny11, from your viewpoint this is acceptable practice? I guess if it's becoming normalized, they should have classes for up-and-coming business and political science majors. Bribery 101 Sex Scandals 242

    Anyways, using call girls? Man that's some greasy politiking going on there. Just goes to show you how close the Yakuza and J.Government really are, if not indivisible. All this for WHALES? WHALES? seriously? Why not grease up some Arab countries and get some free oil for your country... or maybe grease up some Chinese officials, so they don't invade you in the future. J-government, not only did you perform some several acts of indecency, you did it for some sea mammals... That shows Japan really has no where to go but down... I hope them whales are worth it...

  • 0

    funkymofo

    Don't know why this is even news.

    Because it's illegal.

    It is known as a "gentlemens(sic) agreement".

    No it's not, it's called bribery.

  • 0

    LostinNagoya

    Even if it's not new news, it must be reported, as ST did. In a world where people are losing their parameters of what's right and what's wrong, governments should set the example to bel followed. Bribery is a crime, a serious one. Japan should be ashamed of this: selling money and prostitute for the rights of killing.

  • 0

    Zenny11

    I never said it was acceptable, all I said it is a very common practice.

    Example: One major Software company invited me to their Xmas-party thanking us customers for the business of the year.

    Booze, strippers(you were allowed to touch), etc galore and that was from a major company that supplies the worlds top-comnpanies. Not going into what happened in the smaller rooms.

    You can call it what you want but it is common practice and accepted.

    So again not news.

  • 0

    jam_sandwich

    So doesn't "common practice and accepted" mean the same as "acceptable"? aren't you just contradicting yourself? They tend to have the same connotations you know. Which one is it? Please make up your mind, and let us know... Maybe not news in Japan, but this takes away whatever shred of credibility Japan has at the IWC... which means Japan will have little recourse but to withdraw.

  • 0

    timorborder

    Just read through the article in the Times. It does makes rather interesting reading. I was particularly impressed with the comments of the representative of Mali, who believes that whales (or too many of them) are endangering his country's fish resources. It was very nice of the times to point out that Mali is in fact land-locked.

    Anyway, if the times really has an axe to grind on this issue, it should have waited to publish this story when the IWC next meets. Published at the current time, this article, at best, creates a stir. Published to coincide with the next meeting of the IWC, this article would send the international press corps into a feeding frenzy.

  • 0

    funkymofo

    Thanks, I'll call it what it is- the Japanese Government's systematic attempts to illegally buy votes at an upcoming International Whaling Commission meeting. Whether or not this kind of thing occurs in private enterprise, and whether or not you got to touch a stripper, is irrelevant. This is an international commission that is charged with the conservation of endangered species, not someone shilling software.

    So again, yes it is news.

  • 0

    some14some

    Haji :(

  • 0

    Zenny11

    Anyone noticed that the above aricle states "Countries were WILLING to sell their vote". Makes me wnder who approached whom.

    Jam_Sandwich.

    For many it is acceptable and (here is the shocker) even expected. My personal opinion if I find it acceptable or not don't even come into play here.

    A deal is a deal and what matter is getting the deal(even if it involves a few favours, etc).

    It is only the media and some readers that really gets hyped about it.

    If you dig further you will find that similar stuff happens from all parties. Order a masseusse send to the room and she offers you a "Happy end" as she got a wad of cash from someone to offer a bit more, etc.

    This is just the way it is.

  • 0

    mrhatoyama

    The only question I have is, were the prostitutes Chinese or Japanese. I'm wondering just how desperate the Japanese were to keep fish on their market, could they part with their Japanese prostitutes and let Gaijin share these top notch prostitutes or did they just pawn off the Chinese ones??? The guy that runs the Chinese one by my house often explains to me that the price of these girls are less because they are Chinese and NOT Japanese, so I'm guessing the government of Japan thinks the same way.

  • 0

    Zenny11

    My point being.

    Don't just hit the guy offering something, also hit the guy accepting the offer.

    Once you accepted the offer you can't claim the high moral ground and complain.

  • 0

    jam_sandwich

    My first point was that you contradicted yourself, something can't be both "not acceptable" and "common practice and accepted" at the same time. sigh but I'll put semantics aside. My second point, being made as you read this, is that this "acceptable business" practice is probably not going to bode well for Japan, or the parties involved. As I recall, from a certain documentary, Dominica, one of Japan's bribees had withdrawn from the IWC. After they received a shiny new fishing building, promptly used for the local poultry. Why does Japan need to go to such lengths for some Whales? From a utilitarian perspective, it benefits the least amount of people in Japan. Why not invest all this misguided effort into another more beneficial industry? Maybe it's one of those things where the parent (international community), says that Japan can't have something, so immediately Japan must have it! My daughter behaves much in the same way. Forbidden whale is so much tastier I guess.

  • 0

    steam

    This is surprising why?...classic japanese business practise.

  • 0

    Zenny11

    jam_sandwich.

    Contradictions liken that exist everywhere.

    Wanna know how many "good & upstanding" christians I know that get drunk and beat up on their wifes after they come back from church-service. Or have a little bit of "fun" on the side even though they are married.

    Human nature. What we say and preach and actually do are different things. People need to keep a front up for their neighbours, business, etc.

  • 0

    jam_sandwich

    Upstanding christians? isn't that an oxymoron? Why couldn't Japan do what it's best at doing... be the victim? With this greasy set of affairs, Japan can't really be though of the victim of international bullying. Now they will be though of some ravenous whale eaters who would sell their own daughters for a fix... In Japan, first you get the whale, then you get the power, then you get the we-men!

  • 0

    smithinjapan

    Why is this news? Everyone except those in the utmost denial know this already.

  • 0

    smithinjapan

    Get ready for the: "You're attacking our culture" arguments for reporting on the bribing and pimping of girls for votes.

  • 0

    thundercat

    The government of Japan used my tax money to buy prostitutes for these overseas ministers? And all of this for whales? WTF! Just further confirms my view that these fisheries ministers and the ICR are just a group of common criminals. They care nothing for the citizens of this country... just their own bottom line.

  • 0

    GW

    Gee wonder how much Jpn spent & how many hookers were needed to sway the maguro vote?

    Folks it shud be obvious whats going on here, Jpn constantly has a tough time figuring out whats right about whaling, tuna, child abduction, child porn, the only thing that gets any action/response from Jpn is when it is put up for embarassment in front of the world that is why this is getting press

  • 0

    browny1

    to those who think this is not news -

    What on earth makes you believe that the majority of people know details of the sliminess of international dealings, and as such think it's ok?

    Just because in "Your World", "You" know about it, doesn't necessarily transpire for others.

    So this IS certainly news, and all parties on both sides need to be condemned for their gutter crawling. Especially as the topic (whaling)is already contoversial, you'd think they'd be trying to keep the squeaky side clean.

    And in my small business world, I've never come across meat-offerings for favours. To consider it ubiquitous, probably says more about the considerers than reality.

  • 0

    shufu

    Bah... doesn't shock me at all.

    These kinds of girls are available to clients in all layers of business in Japan. Its like offering massages or buying your lunch.

  • 0

    prinzjay

    Not surprised. The predictions were that Japan would lose the vote...and then at the last minute it changed to Japans favor...now we know why. What a disgusting country Japan is. Im happy these African officals went on the record and blew this wide open. Its very shameful and I hope this goes against Japan when the IWC meets again. Japan is a real low balling country...and will stop at nothing to get its way.

  • 0

    Zenny11

    brown1.

    No one said either side is squeaky clean that is the point.

    Might be "meat" offered or other stuff it happens all the times, stuff offered can be as small as an intro to a golf-club, school for children, etc.

    It happens and that is the reality, maybe some people are not aware of it or simply refuse to see things for what they are.

    In short "Everybody is up for sale" question is about the price you accept, but everybody has their price. This is reality.

    Japan too has their price. ;)

  • 0

    Zenny11

    Prinzjay.

    Reread the article the ministers "wanted" to sell. Nothing new those small countries are always offering their votes for a price.

    Not saying it makes it right to buy their votes(as japan did), japan just got in first before Aus, USA, NZ, etc did.

  • 0

    MrDog

    If the people who vote for these countries are shallow enough to vote for whaling even though they are against it because they got some call-girls and a bit of cash, they can't really be all that against whaling. Also, if they wanted the world to know about it, why didn't they make a big fuss about it at the time?

    Seems like people from these 3rd world countries are just after more cash next time to keep quiet.

    If they are doing it for trade etc.. with Japan, then I hope Japan stops trading with them of giving aid- the person bribed broke their side of the bargain, so if this is true, then Japan should stop trading with them because getting some limelight is a lot more important than trade is for them it seems.

    Are the countries bribed by anti-whale countries going to come forward too?

  • 0

    Laguna

    Ichthyologists and call girls and money: sounds fishy to me. Japan dropped the bait, and they took the hook. Let's hope it isn't a large-scale problem and that the authorities properly weigh the issue, not just dithering whether to fish or cut bait. Perhaps the whole Fisheries Ministry should be gutted and hung out to dry.

    Wait - aren't we talking about whales here?

  • 0

    womanforwomen

    As someone above said, why should this be news, and what difference does it make about the nationality of the call girls? As though those clean, righteous countries do not use call girls to buy what they want especially in politics. This Newspaper company is trying to create some waves just like the anti-whalers did? Is there someone who is able to find out who has bought the SS "prostitute" to create this nuisance about whaling.

  • 0

    BurakuminDes

    This is no doubt all lies made up by that disreputable Sunday Times rag. Absolute nonsense - just part of bully Australia's conspiracy to force Japan to stop their time-honoured and vital whaling tradition - eh, OssanAmerica?

  • 0

    whiskeysour

    call girls ??? Wow!!! I want to see what they loook like ? Who chooses what to go where ?

  • 0

    PeaceWarrior

    Laguna, great post! hahaha!

  • 0

    womanforwomen

    3rd world countries

    I guess this term is redundant at this time. What I observed from my rcent travel is that some 3rd world countries as you mentioned are doing much better than some First world counries.

  • 0

    semperfi

    And . . . . like OTHER countries do not BRIBE to advance their agendas? . . . .

  • 0

    maryhinge

    Whale-Oil-Beef-Hooked!

  • 0

    smithinjapan

    Zenny11: "Not saying it makes it right to buy their votes(as japan did), japan just got in first before Aus, USA, NZ, etc did."

    So you're suggesting that Aus., the USA, and NZ were going to go to those countries and bribe them so that they could carry out whaling?

    Come on! No one is saying anyone is beyond bribery here, what the article is pointing out, however, is that the JAPANESE have bribed these countries with hookers and money to vote on their behalf in regards to whaling. We're not talking about anything else here. Stop trying to make it seem like everyone is guilty to undermine the gravity of what the article is showing.

  • 0

    onewrldoneppl

    what's the tanzanian's name? is there any way of verifying whether this story is true before we simply assume it is? i think most countries voted in favour of japan, simply because they export to japan. i believe(d) the thinking was purely economic/commercial.

  • 0

    Zenny11

    Lets see they were "WILLING" to sell their votes for Aid.

    Guess the higher bidder gets it, the japanese were the highest bidder hence the article is about them.

    Or do you really think they only offered their votes to japan. Come on now be realistic.

    Nuff said.

  • 0

    NuckinFutz

    This should not surprise anyone since it is just Japan's normal way of doing business.

  • 0

    prinzjay

    If you read the original Sunday Times story, it mentions how british reporters were going around pretending to work for some billionaire conservationist at a IWC meeting and asked these small country representatives if they would be willing to sell their votes...all the while a hidden camera caught the small countries representatives comparing the "billionaires offer" to that of the Japanese. It was all caught on film...I would love to see it. The japanese outbid everyone...I guess you cant beat spending money and hookers.

  • 0

    Zenny11

    prinzjay.

    I rest my case you just confirmed what I said all along.

  • 0

    Stoker

    Some of the justifications here are just great. "Everyone does it", "The anti-whalers would've done it if they'd thought of it sooner", "It's the small nations fault for accepting the bribes". I'm sure you'd be this understanding if the shoe was on the other foot.

  • 0

    NuckinFutz

    So lets see here. We have the Japanese GOVERNMENT spending TAXPAYER money on prostitutes (who I'll bet were NOT Japanese) to buy votes of IWC members. Then the same government hands out CASH to foreign officials for more "conference" expenses. If these stories are proven true all Japanese government officials should be arrested, and those countries who took the bribes expelled from the IWC. Japan should then be expelled from the IWC and informed that ANY future whaling activities would be considered illegal and met with force. Time to start shaming the Japanese government a little!

  • 0

    Tessa

    According to the article, the name of the Tanzanian official is "Nanyaro." Like I said, you have to be an Osakan to appreciate it.

  • 0

    KyokoSmile

    **The International Whaling Commission (IWC) commissioner for Tanzania said “call girls” were made available at the hotels for ministers and senior fisheries civil servants during all-expenses paid trips to Japan, the paper reported. **

    Were these "call girls" Japanese nationals?

  • 0

    Zenny11

    Who cares?

    But considering the officials were guests in japan and got $100o a day highly likely.

    But than $1000/day buys many ladies of negotiable affection/Seamstresses(Terry Pratchett reference).

  • 0

    KyokoSmile

    **LostinNagoya at 01:41 PM JST - 13th June

    Even if it's not new news, it must be reported, as ST did. In a world where people are losing their parameters of what's right and what's wrong, governments should set the example to bel followed. Bribery is a crime, a serious one. Japan should be ashamed of this: selling money and prostitute for the rights of killing.**

    EXACTLY!!!

  • 0

    sarcasm123

    What?? This news has been on this site for many hours now, and still no post by davidattokyo??? Did he have a heart attack??

    Anyway, I think the West should not be to harsh on Japan. You see, bribing and call girls are Japanese Great Culture. Any Western nation trying to stop these habbits is trying to oppress the Japanese and their Great Culture. The Sunday Times is writing nothing but Western Propaganda! We Japanese must protect our culture, and protect Japanese traditional bribing and Japanese traditional call girls! I suggest we open a so called "research" institute to study these parts of our culture. I suggest that that great center of Japanese Culture - the Japanese whaling institute - starts this study, because they have already great experience in the study of Japanese traditional whaling and Japanese traditional embezzlement.

  • 0

    KyokoSmile

    What?? This news has been on this site for many hours now, and still no post by davidattokyo??? Did he have a heart attack??

    hahahaha, I'm also waiting for OssanAmerica and YuriOtani...Let the real debate begins!

  • 0

    KyokoSmile

    Bwahahaahahaha @ sarcasm's post by the way.. I'm totally ROFL everytime I read it.

  • 0

    Pukey2

    Where's davidattokyo? Perhaps bicultural can put a positive spin on this nasty piece of news.

  • 0

    stormqueen

    Lets make 1 thing perfectly clear the attempted bribery of officials by the American Salt Lake City for the Winter Olympic Games rights isnt by any means similar business tactics to what the Japanese are being accused of here....bwa ha ha

  • 0

    Triple888

    Probably true!

  • 0

    tclh

    Basically this news discovers that the sea is blue.?! shock ,horror wawawa...dou shiyou?. But those ministers, civil servants could always say no ,no no , we are the rightous ones.:-)

  • 0

    Sarge

    Weere these call girls certified STD-free?

  • 0

    commanteer

    Of course. Why do you think so many people want to work for the UN, the ISO (safety standards...yeah, right) and other international quasi-governmental organizations? The perks! Hookers are the least of it, and - get this - even sophisticated Europeans and well-meaning Aussies and Americans love hookers. The IWC is not as lush as some of the groups I named above, so they must be delighted that anyone cares enough to bribe them.

    This is what happens when you have organizations that weld power but have no accountability.

    Now excuse me while I go chew on some whale blubber.

  • 0

    funkymofo

    commanteer,

    These 'perks' you're talking about are bribes to buy votes to circumvent international democratic process with taxpayers money. Maybe others in other organisations do the same thing, but that is an irrelevant and juvenile attempt to defend the indefensible.

  • 0

    gaijinfo

    I'm sure this news was released to try and bring guilt to Japan and hopefully mitigate any sentence that New Zealand dude will get. I realize this is a British paper, and the dude is a Kiwi, but west vs. east and all that.

    Everybody knows stuff like this happens all the time, but this will force them to no longer pretend it doesn't.

    1000 bucks a day is peanuts. Couple friends of mine, who buy big engines for their ship building company were treated similarly recently to a trip in Europe. Not quite as extravagant, but paid first class air, hotel, etc.

  • 0

    KyokoSmile

    chew on whale blubber?? I think I'm gonna puke...yuck!

  • 0

    Zenny11

    gaijinfo.

    Britain(UK, NZ and AUS) are still Commonwealth. ;)

  • 0

    funkymofo

    Zenny and gaijinfo- so the Japanese govt. gets busted for bribery- and your response is that it's a plot by the evil Commonwealth. Beautiful!

  • 0

    mchawi

    -->Everybody knows stuff like this happens all the time, but this will force them to no longer pretend it doesn't. totally agree...

  • 0

    Zenny11

    funkymofo.

    Yeah ,busted for stuff that been known for ages.

    Very convenient time for certain parties to remind the world of old news, don't you think?

  • 0

    browny1

    Classic argument - A coupla friends of mine.....

    What a load of crock spewed.

    Who gives a rats whether others in other industries do it all the time. All that divergence is way off topic.

    Get a line on it.

    This topic is about the "Holy Whaling Fraternity" who have grubbed their way to get what they want, while portraying a "general public" image of "Us poor folks jus' doin' what we do to keep our traditions" - vomit.

    And they are pathetic for their almighty hypocrisy.

    And don't bring up your mates/acquaintances/colleagues/friends friends dallyings as justification for poo-pooing this topic. Write your own story about the deprivations of your business "do it every day" world.

    They got caught out - simple - and they got smut on their pretty lil' suits. No squirming out. They're outed.

  • 0

    Zenny11

    Browny1

    Don't holds back, tell us how you truly feel about the whalers. Honestly mate take a chill-pill you might burst something.

  • 0

    funkymofo

    Zenny

    Yeah yeah, it was the Queen's idea, right? Time to make a new tinfoil hat, I think the signals might be getting through.

    There is a meeting of the IWC coming, the Japanese Govt. are trying to manipulate voting there, using cash and prostitutes. Why is this not news?

    Would you rather proof of corruption and vote buying was prevented from being exposed until after the meeting, perhaps?

    There have been many allegations of this type of corruption- being caught red-handed embarrasses the guilty, and reminds the rest of us of the lengths the Japanese Govt. is willing to go to- using our taxes no less.

  • 0

    Zenny11

    Funkymofo.

    For how many years have the japanese been accused of vote-buying(not saying they don't) but it ALWAYS comes up times like this.

    And there will always people like you browny1 popping out of the wood-works. News like that always bring out the peanut gallery that is quiet at all other times.

  • 0

    funkymofo

    zenny,

    .... it ALWAYS comes up times like this.

    What, you mean like after they paid for the bribes and hookers, but before the voting starts? How rude!

  • 0

    sarcasm123

    For how many years have the japanese been accused of vote-buying(not saying they don't) but it ALWAYS comes up times like this.

    So now we have to be considerate for the briber and bring out the news only at times that are convenient for them?? :P

  • 0

    Zenny11

    Sarcasm123.

    No it is propaganda plain and simple, but guys don't see it and get all worked up over it.

  • 0

    funkymofo

    That was the most cogent and relevant part of your post! The rest was just calling someone a peanut that lives in a wood pile lol. Did I miss something?

    Seriously though, I didn't change the context of your quote at all- the problem you have here is that it's an inconvenient time for these revelations to come into the public arena. But you must understand, that's exactly what makes it a good story, and one that needs to be aired. You don't need conspiracies, you just need interest, and there is obviously plenty of interest about this issue. If the Japanese Govt. is buying votes, it's really their bad luck if the truth is outed at a time that doesn't suit them.

  • 0

    elmergavi

    I live in Mongolia and yes im willing to vote pro-whaling activities, Now wheres my prostitutes!!!!!??????

  • 0

    desmosedici

    Of course it comes up in times like this, seems there is an important vote coming up this month. But it's only bribing, so what. As long as it's not your own money of course, hm Zenny. You can also donate whatever you can spare. Show some spirit. They should check where this money comes from. I can't imagine that ordinary Japanese folks would be happy to hear that their hard payed taxes are used to bribe people in order to maintain something they are already forking out money for and have little interest in.

  • 0

    Zenny11

    desmosedici.

    Yes, it always comes up but NEVER any specifics like names and never any charges, etc ergo propaganda.

    And if you think it don't make news in japan you haven't lived here or switched on the telly.

    Those topics whaling, dolphin hunt, etc are widely broadcast and discussed on japanese telly.

  • 0

    womanforwomen

    I thought that this kind of thing happened during biblical times, no? If the News paper is smart enough they should publicize the Tzanian who was upto no good.

  • 0

    hokkaidoguy

    Why do I get the feeling that the fisheries ministers in countries that joined because of Greenpeace letter writing campaigns are feeling pretty ripped off about now...

  • 0

    Zenny11

    Sarcasm123.

    Yank the other one it has bells on.

    But I guess a short trip over to Youtube, etc would be out of the question.

    Not talking the NHK english news here that most japan-haters love.

  • 0

    womanforwomen

    sarcasm maybe you need to wakeup early to watch the news and other programs on whales.this evening there was a documentary on cameroon about some other lizard animal being eaten to extinction by the natives.

  • 0

    desmosedici

    Zenny

    The only time it comes on tv is, when it concerns Sea Shepard. I have never seen a meaningful discussion on tv about the necessity of whaling or whaling in general for that matter and I have been here 29 years, but ok, I don't watch tv the whole damned day. Two weeks or so ago, there was a segment in some news program, dealing with the Cove and the Sea Shepard and in the end they said: pretty soon we can't even "kill" plants anymore for plants are living things as well. Go figure. I doubt we will be seeing anything on tv here mentioning this bribing by Japanese officials, using (probably) tax payers money.

  • 0

    Zenny11

    desmosedici.

    Granted many programs are on during the morning(after 08:00am) hence not viewable to office workers, also many programs on over the weekend. Guys like Mino, Dave Specter, Terry, etc love that type of news

  • 0

    sarcasm123

    Come on, you have to be pretty far gone to think this will make the news here. When Japan can show itself as the victim, yes, THEN it makes the news. But this news shows Japan as the dirtly little country it really is when it comes to such matters. It will be completely ignored on all levels.

    this evening there was a documentary on cameroon about some other lizard animal being eaten to extinction by the natives.

    I saw it too. Nice to see you compare the first world country Japan to a tribe of aboriginals. :P

  • 0

    Scrote

    This is old news: it has been known for a long time that Japan paid for IWC votes. Since the bribe takers are mostly small countries it would be a good idea to weight the IWC votes according to population, which would render Japan's sneaky tactics irrelevant.

    None of this will be reported by NHK or other Japanese "journalists": they are happy to regurgitate the government line without question.

  • 0

    Bholder

    this news has just appeared on yahoo japan an hour ago. there is no mention of any prostitutes/call girls though.

    and the contrast in comments!!! over there it's all about imperial britain leading the white man crusade against innocent japanese ODA... blood chills when i think who i pass by on the street:

    http://headlines.yahoo.co.jp/hl?a=20100613-00000095-jij-int

  • 0

    thundercat

    I love how Zenny here is trying to turn this discussion into a pro - anti whaling debate. I fully support Japan's right to hunt whales... and yet news like this makes me sick.

    So, what makes you more upset about this story... the fact that Japanese officials are bribing foreign officials with cash and prostitutes or the fact this story was even reported? By reading through your posts it seems pretty clear that you don't care about the bribery but are quite upset that this story has been published. Your position makes no sense... if Japan wasn't engaging in nefarious deals we would never have to read this 'propaganda' as you like to call it.

  • 0

    Zenny11

    thundercat.

    Huh, when did I try to turn this into pro vs anti-whaling thing.

    What I was saying is that it is NOT news as it happens everyday and everywhere. Neither did I ever say that I was for those deals and supported them.

    Talk about twisting someones words.

    So far all we have is some ST writers word, NO proof, etc.

    But everybody is ready to string up Japan and lynch them as the big baddy.

    Like I said happens everytime before a big vote.

    Alos no-one thought it strange that NONE of the countries got suspicious about the newspaper making inquries and they happilly made the info available(incriminating themselves) and all for NOTHING in return.

    I am sure that the newspaper passed a few envelopes under the table to get the news.

  • 0

    Bholder

    just the first five comments from yahoo japan:

    1) rant about BP being based in britain, and look what they've done in the gulf of mexico, finishes with ironic "country of gentlemen" 2) praise to nippon for not leaving the iwc and just have talks with whaling countries instead. why all the blame on nippon, what about canada or norway? etc... 3) england's royalty also hunts foxes! WTF? 4) calling britons tone-deaf when it comes to palate, goes on to warn not to behave as you're still an empire, plus an expletive 5) equating it with "anti-whaling terror organisation"

    and just go and sort the comments by the number of "i agree" clicks if you want to go (much) further down this path... i just hold on to the hope that it's mostly net denizens, pretty much of the same sort as anywhere alse but...

  • 0

    Zenny11

    From the actual article(got removed from JT):

    **

    The reporters, posing as representatives of a billionaire conservationist, approached officials from pro-whaling countries and offered them an aid package to change their vote. **

    Link: http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/environment/article7149091.ece

  • 0

    Zenny11

    Another quote:

    The governments of St Kitts and Nevis, the Marshall Islands, Kiribati, Grenada, Republic of Guinea and Ivory Coast all **entered negotiations to sell their votes in return for aid. **

  • 0

    sarcasm123

    I think I will try to write my piece on bribes and call girls being part of Japanese culture on that Japanese news page :P

  • 0

    sarcasm123

    So, Zenny11, are you trying to make Japan look worse, or better. It is unclear from what you write here.

  • 0

    Zenny11

    I am not trying to do either.

    But the countries were and are still open to offers/bribes(if you want) and I don't think Japan was the only country making offers.

    Like I said Japan got it thus it is news if AUS, NZ made better offers we would never hear it on the news.

    News like that has an agenda behind it and people need to see it for what it is. All I am saying.

  • 0

    sarcasm123

    Not for a second do I believe AUS or NZ would offer bribes and call girls to some small countries to buy their votes. If they would, the people of those countries would be outraged. Only in Japan is this approach seen as acceptable.

  • 0

    Stoker

    On the contrary Zenny. If Australia or New Zealand had been found to be bribing countries with prostitutes it WOULD make the news in either country, and I sure bet that YOU wouldn't then be arguing that it was no big deal.

  • 0

    womanforwomen

    But everybody is ready to string up Japan and lynch them as the big baddy.

    And mind you, some of them are enjoying the hospitality of this 'dirty little country'.

    Sarcasm, the reason I pointed you to the tribal people story is that all the other tribal people who are not tribal anymore did deplete and squander away all the natuaral things until they realized that they cannot do it for their own good. Last week very early in the morning, there was a program on the whales and the other sea creatures. It was a very beautiful piece of work on NHK.

  • 0

    hamiltontruther

    It appears the Western media is growing a pair in showing the real Japan to the world.

  • 0

    ASUKA_RYO

    "Japan bribed small nations with cash, call girls to get whaling vote"

    Question: Well, after what has been exposed to the public then a scandal will occur followed by an official investigation and some heads will roll, right ? .....right....?...

    Answer: What happened ? Did something happen (looking another way) ?

    Hint: GoJ-->Uyoku-->Yakuza = the result is seen above

  • 0

    smithinjapan

    Zenny11: "But the countries were and are still open to offers/bribes(if you want) and I don't think Japan was the only country making offers."

    And yet you're still trying to turn this article into a general, 'Everyone does it, so why is this bad'? On the one hand, you're saying there's no proof. Then you turn around and say it's no big deal because everyone does it. I find that a bit of a contradiction, to say the least.

    Still, could we please discuss the bribery by Japan on the issue of whaling and stop trying to undermine it by talking about bribery in general?

  • 0

    paulinusa

    '"happens everywhere" "not news" Maybe, but were these details reported in the Japanese newspapers?' That was the 8th post on this story and you guys are finally starting to debate it. What did the Japanese media know and when did they know it? Will they bury this? And what will be the reaction of the Japanese people? Will they get the sordid details?

  • 0

    smithinjapan

    Zenny11: "Or do you really think they only offered their votes to japan. Come on now be realistic."

    Got it -- the countries that took the bribes are also bad. Who is arguing against that? But does that make Japan better for it? Come on!

  • 0

    Zenny11

    smithinjapan.

    We can discuss the bribery by japan once we got definite details and proof. Sorry, the times article don't provide them.

    Also not so sure how much data is correct as the guys at the time appear to want to cut a better aid deal.

  • 0

    sarcasm123

    And again some here "need more proof" for this and that, while they are always happy to believe any word the Japanese side says without seeing any :P

  • 0

    Zenny11

    Sarcasm123.

    I know you got your beliefs and all discussions are useless as you can't argue against a belief.

    As for beliefing the japanese side can't do as they haven't said anything about it. :P

  • 0

    Zenny11

    BTW, I find the Times artcle biased as they open with "mass whale slaugher", etc.

    Not really an objective look at things, IMO.

  • 0

    sarcasm123

    Oh come on, the Japanese claim so much on this topic. I will remember your username and see if you question any of their claims next time. This includes that so called research, and their so called "aid" they offer to these countries.

    Good night.

  • 0

    Disillusioned

    Oh, shock, horror! Could this be true? Japan has been buying votes from desperate countries to keep their whale 'research' and their position in the IWC? Oh, my dog! What's next? They have been abusing their research rights to supply the country with whale meat? I can't believe they would do such a thing! - It's about bloody time the rest of the world put a stop to this farce and put these lying, conniving scammers in their place.

  • 0

    Makun

    With the recent controversy of "The Cove" and denial of screenings in Japan, this simply restates issues presented in the film, and the measures people will take in such situations and circumstances.

  • 0

    Japlan

    The meat trade for small nations.

  • 0

    paulinusa

    If this happened in the States(and in other western countries for that matter) there would be an uproar: heads would roll, investigations, headlines, letters to the editor, etc. If this story, with the details, is widely reported, it will be interesting to see the reaction of the Japanese government and the Japanese general public.

  • 0

    thundercat

    Zenny you said:

    Don't holds back, tell us how you truly feel about the whalers

    Maybe you don't realize that people who are upset about this type of corruption may not even have an opinion about whalers or even whaling... I really think that heads should roll for this type of behaviour but I won't hold my breath.

  • 0

    Zenny11

    Agree if bribery happened they should roll. Never stated otherwise.

    But the article in question looks like they deliberately deceived goverment officials to reveal certain data and also the wording in the article shows that the writer has an anti-whaling agenda.

  • 0

    thundercat

    Never stated otherwise?????? You said repeatedly that you thought this was no big deal... that everybody does it... and now you want to claim that you think this IS a big deal and that j-officials should get in trouble?

  • 0

    Zenny11

    When did I say that they should go unpunished or that I approve their actions.

    Do I need to spell everything out for you guys. Like "Everyone does it but I don't approve of it and thus am in favour for punishing them."

    Clear enough now?

    Need to remember this is JT and thus people read things into posts that are not there.

  • 0

    nandakandamanda

    Misread the title. The first piece of news, Japan bribed small nations with cash, I could understand no problem. The second pice of news was a revelation, Call girls to get whaling vote.

  • 0

    thundercat

    When you come on here with excuses like "everybody does it, it's no big deal, this isn't news, the small nations were selling their vote etc etc etc" how would anyone ever guess that what you were really saying is "this kind of behaviour is unacceptable and those responsible should be punished"... Jez, even 4 year olds know that they should say what they mean...

  • 0

    paulinusa

    Will the government brush this off? Bury it?

  • 0

    Zenny11

    If people are unsure rather than attacking and slamming they could ASK for clarification ask like a 3yr old would. Noble idea???

    Not everyone here is a native english speaker too.

    But JT posters are happier attacking and slamming than clearifying things.

  • 0

    Zenny11

    Will the government brush this off? Bury it?

    Too early to say as it only hit the overseas news a few hours ago.

  • 0

    thundercat

    I understand your point about the language thing as English isn't even my first language... Is it yours? Even though English isn't my first language I know that I should say what I mean... I also know that earlier you were saying the opposite of what you are saying now. There is no possible way that you can think "its no big deal" and "someone should be punished"... that just doesn't make sense! (even to a 2 year old ;) )

  • 0

    arrestpaul

    sarcasm123 - And again some here "need more proof" for this and that, while they are always happy to believe any word the Japanese side says without seeing any

    .....Rather than protest at this blatant bribery, Ibrahima Sory Sylla, the national director of fisheries for Guinea, got straight on the telephone to his deputy minister. “I spoke to him [the minister] positively about your bargaining,” he reported back over lunch later that day, “time is pressed ... for us to make our decision.”

    .....On Friday the Guinea fisheries ministry denied Japan had paid any money to its delegates and claimed Sylla was not involved in IWC matters. Sylla was briefly put on the phone to say he had made everything up.

    • Which version am I supposed to believe? Especially without more proof.
  • 0

    thundercat

    the governments of St Kitts and Nevis, the Marshall Islands, Kiribati, Grenada, Republic of Guinea and Ivory Coast negotiated selling their votes in return for aid.

    These countries also get their ministers briefly on the phone?

  • 0

    OssanAmerica

    I agree that this isn't news to anyone on either side of the whaling fence. But what is remarkable is the blatant bias displayed by the Sunday Times in that their "expose" of Japan's practice ignores the fact that buying off countries for IWC votes was actually started by the Anti-Whaling faction and that's how the Moratorium of 1986 got put into place. Japan quickly started copying this method. Shale onthe Sunday Times for not covering the full "story" begind IWC vote buying.

  • 0

    america2010

    First, let me clear this up. The whaling industry wound NOT be involved in this type of behavior. It's a simple matter of it being both unethical and immoral. The ides of providing women for sex and bribing people stopped like 40 years ago. Also as a citizen of the United Stated, I can say us Americans also would never to something like this, so please let's drop this.......

  • 0

    apecNetworks

    Just out of curiosity....

    You are delegate for your country to the IWC, and your country doesn't care which way you vote. In the evening, a pretty girl comes to your hotel room and offers you an envelop full of cash. Then, proceeds to take her clothes off. No one knows but you, and you are lonely.

  • 0

    goodDonkey

    The ugly business of slaughtering whales just keeps getting uglier.

  • 0

    arrestpaul

    OssanAmerica - "The purpose of the IWC as specified in its constitution is "in safeguarding for future generations the great natural resources represented by the whale stocks;" and the original members consisted only of the 15 whale-hunting nations. However, since the late 1970s and early 1980s, many countries which have no previous history of whaling (some of which are landlocked such as Switzerland and Mongolia) have joined the IWC.

    • This shift was first initiated by Sir Peter Scott, the then head of the World Wildlife Fund.

    Labelling the IWC a "butchers' club", he mounted lobbying campaigns in developed countries with support from the green lobby and anti whaling block of IWC members to change the composition of the IWC's membership, which was instrumental in obtaining the necessary three-quarters majority vote to implement the moratorium on commercial whaling in 1986. This campaign triggered the first accusations of vote-buying in IWC.

    Thanks for the information. I've always wondered why there were so many NON-whaling nations involved with the IWC. Apparently, vote buying, providing "companionship" and influence peddling was very prevalent in the 70's and 80's. I think it's reasonable to assume that the animal-rights groups have continue their bribery to keep there shill voters in line.

  • 0

    medievaltimes

    Bribing is a normal part of Japanese business. And call girls are a common fixture in the Japanese businessman's environment.

  • 0

    arrestpaul

    medievaltimes - Bribing is a normal part of Japanese business. And call girls are a common fixture in the Japanese businessman's environment.

    Bribes or 'exchanging gifts' have been a part of INTERNATIONAL business and politics since mankind first started to interact between villages and tribes.

  • 0

    TheRat

    Bribing is a normal part of Japanese business. And call girls are a common fixture in the Japanese businessman's environment.

    Yes, yes, yes, but you are missing the point. My TAX dollars went to pay for those GD callgirls, and I didn't even have a say in it. Second point: how many meetings were set up (and PAID for) to get this arranged? Was the DPJ behind this? Which official decided on this? How MUCH money was paid? Were the girls actually worth the money? Were the girls VETTED? WHO was on the vetting committee? Really, this is an outrage! If this happened in Britain, I would give the conservative government a few days or weeks to hang it up? If the United States, it would be called "CALLGATE" with no end of discussions and revelations and then impeachment. But in Japan---crickets.

  • 0

    Darren White

    Don't worry, I'm sure that the hookers were purely for research purposes.

  • 0

    apecNetworks

    Another interesting question is how the info was acquired? Were hotel phones and rooms bugged? This is not something a delegate would tell anyone?

  • 0

    medievaltimes

    Bribes or 'exchanging gifts' have been a part of INTERNATIONAL business and politics since mankind first started to interact between villages and tribes.

    Of course. We all know that. But you aren't actually implying that this happens with the same frequency to all cultures over the world, are you?

  • 0

    Disillusioned

    The Japanese will flatly deny these accusations and respond with old 'westerners attacking Japan's culture' self-pity plea. As usual!

  • 0

    apecNetworks

    One third page down is an important aspect to these international conferences. It is a concern of mine:

    http://www.ncoic.com/nsapoole.htm

    Insight Magazine reported in a series of articles in 1997 that President Clinton ordered the NSA and FBI to mount a massive surveillance operation at the 1993 Asian/Pacific Economic Conference (APEC) hosted in Seattle. One intelligence source for the story related that over 300 hotel rooms had been bugged for the event, which was designed to obtain information regarding oil and hydro-electric deals pending in Vietnam that were passed on to high level Democratic Party contributors competing for the contracts.<59> But foreign companies were not the only losers: when Vietnam expressed interest in purchasing two used 737 freighter aircraft from an American businessman, the deal was scuttled after Commerce Secretary Ron Brown arranged favorable financing for two new 737s from Boeing.<60

  • 0

    medievaltimes

    Yes, yes, yes, but you are missing the point. My TAX dollars went to pay for those GD callgirls, and I didn't even have a say in it. Second point: how many meetings were set up (and PAID for) to get this arranged? Was the DPJ behind this? Which official decided on this? How MUCH money was paid? Were the girls actually worth the money? Were the girls VETTED? WHO was on the vetting committee? Really, this is an outrage! If this happened in Britain, I would give the conservative government a few days or weeks to hang it up? If the United States, it would be called "CALLGATE" with no end of discussions and revelations and then impeachment. But in Japan---crickets.

    You kind of made my point. This isn't Britian. And it isn't USA. It's Japan. And it's quite common here. And the typical reaction might not be to your liking. So, you have some choices. Simply venting about it over a beer (or an internet message board) won't do much.

  • 0

    apecNetworks

    Correction:

    "TWO thirds page down..."

  • 0

    xuanzhang

    Is there any more sensationalist news than British news? I'm surprised everything coming out of UK isn't tabloid.

  • 0

    commanteer

    funkymofo, the reason you're upset is because you think there is such a thing as an "international democratic process." Ain't no such animal. Never has been, never will be. Democracies work within the confines of a shared culture.

    The real waste of taxpayer money here is that such organizations as the IWA exist at all. I'm tired of my taxes funding lavish trips, bloated bureaucracies and first class travel for an organization that is corrupt by design (not by circumvention). By comparison, a few hookers is pocket change.

    And whale blubber, by the way, is that crunchy and delectable white stuff you get with your sushi teishoku. Not surprised few people know it. I was eating it a a table of 6 Japanese recently, and I was the only one who knew what it was. So much for it being a part of Japan's culture...

  • 0

    xyberc

    Are the call girls Japanese?

  • 0

    Klein2

    We should keep politicians separated absolutely and permanently from cash and call girls.

    Let's all get right on that as an important social initiative.

  • 0

    airrunwesker

    no.. more call girls are not actually Japanese! I would expect you of all people to know that@!

  • 0

    mikehuntez

    With the IWC meeting coming up I'm not surprised that this kind of news comes out of London of all places. Where yes tabloid reporting is common. Like I believe Japan spent that much money on bribing these countries just to be able to get a few whales. Not likely. And just what the hell is a "Lobbyist"? And how do they present themselves to these countries? "Hi I'm a lobbyist. I want to buy your vote against whaling in the IWC. What will it take?" Or something like that? A Lobbyist for who? What organization? Man the media is given a blank check when it comes to reporting that they don't have to substantiate where they get the info from except for vague references to "lobbyists" or "a source close to the investigation". Sounds like a bunch of bull to me.

  • 0

    aaronlennon

    Whale meat again, don't know where, don't know when, but I know whale meat again some sunny day.

  • 0

    888naff

    “call girls” what does this mean? is this a deliberate word play by the times?

    ...could mean very different things to what it means in the uk and have quite different levels of social acceptance (the uk doesn't have much of a range on these things and this pretty much means one thing there)

  • 0

    Aaron2008

    After having lived there from 1987 to 2003, I find it really astonishing to see the how the mighty have fallen!

    Does anybody remember the days when, Karel van Wolferen's book, "The Enigma of Japanese Power"?

    He was considered the anti christ and blaspamous for writing that book. out. Nobody dared to challenge fortress Japan then. Most of us were sold on the Japanese economic miracle. Eikaiwa teachers were making 10, 000 yen an hour. The body' con fashion was all the rave.

    Strangely enough, soon after his that book was published, the bubble burst. Almost 20 years later, with very little recovery in site, we see Japan's social, political and economic cracks glaring, warts and all. Today's Japan might want adopt the moniker from Yukio Mishima's book: "The Sailor Who Fell from Grace with the Sea"

  • 0

    sarcasm123

    So, where is the outrage caused by this news in Japan today? Coverage on tv: 0 seconds.

  • 0

    TheRat

    So, where is the outrage caused by this news in Japan today? Coverage on tv: 0 seconds.

    No need to report on it. It is business as usual. So, it will happen again and again.

  • 0

    funkymofo

    Sarcasm,

    Surprised? Me either.

    commanteer,

    the reason you're upset is because you think there is such a thing as an "international democratic process." Ain't no such animal. Never has been, never will be.

    Thank you for telling me why I'm upset. You see, all along I thought I was peeved at the J Govt. for using who knows how much taxpayers money on bribes, hookers, 'aid packages' and so on to systematically subvert voting at the IWC. Silly me. You may not like the wording I used but the facts remain, Japan's dirty little secret (yes, Japan is still denying it, so the J govt. at least thinks it's still a secret) is out.

    The real waste of taxpayer money here is that such organizations as the IWA exist at all. I'm tired of my taxes funding lavish trips, bloated bureaucracies and first class travel

    Do you mean the IWC? So you're saying it's OK for Japan to bribe other countries' bureaucrats with lavish trips, first class travel spending money, aid packages, hookers and whatnot, because you're sick of funding lavish trips, bloated bureaucracies and first class travel. Clever.

    And whale blubber, by the way, is that crunchy and delectable white stuff you get with your sushi teishoku. Not surprised few people know it. I was eating it a a table of 6 Japanese recently, and I was the only one who knew what it was.

    Ummm okayyy, and congratulations.

    So much for it being a part of Japan's culture...

    Indeed.

  • 0

    jam_sandwich

    So almost everyone on here says "what's new about that!" "it's common practice in business!" However common it is, these things are supposed to happen back door, you don't see the Japanese whaling commissioner sporting a pink cadillac, bling, fur jacket and a pimp hat, surronded by call girls? (that should be a rhetorical question) Once something this gets exposed, the parties (but more guilt falls on the briber, than the bribee) lose almost all credibility. Whether or not this is a common business practice, having it exposed, I think ill do irreparable damage to Japan's claim for whales. What next, some yakuza, or, err, whale industry official is gonna put a whale's head in the IWC head commissioner's bed?

  • 0

    SamuraiBlue

    jam_sandwich

    In criminal law it is common that the bribee(?) or the person takes bribes are more responsible then the briber(?) since the person who is on the receiving side will always have the last say not the otherway around.

  • 0

    sarcasm123

    In criminal law it is common that the bribee(?) or the person takes bribes are more responsible then the briber(?) since the person who is on the receiving side will always have the last say not the otherway around.

    Oh yeah, we all know that whatever happens, Japan is not the bad one. Japan is the poor victim of everything. Hey, they offered bribes and prostitutes because of their innate friendliness and those bad bad foreigners accepted it!! Can you believe it!? And now the white man is going to blame Japan... Ah, the irony!

  • 0

    sarcasm123

    In fact! Japan - in its never ending kindness - probably offered bribes so that other countries would not commit the sin of bribery. You see: it was protecting the other countries! Ah, Japan, always paying attention to the needs of others :P

  • 0

    arrestpaul

    funkymofo - You see, all along I thought I was peeved at the J Govt. for using who knows how much taxpayers money on bribes, hookers, 'aid packages' and so on to systematically subvert voting at the IWC. Silly me. You may not like the wording I used.......

    I thought you were upset because someone else was using the same tactics first used by the animal-rights zealots for the last 30 plus years and had better results. Sounds more like sour grapes than rightous indignation to me.

    What criminal act is alledged to have happened anyway. Delagates/representatives were offered gifts of money to be spent any way THEY wished and some of them may have spent the money on professional sex partners or pachinko.

    Maybe you should increase your donations to the World Wildlife Fund so they can offer "their" delagates a better deal?

  • 0

    ChrisBiggins

    arrestpaul, they were offered cash, aid and prostitues, get with the programme before trying to deflect the accusations.

  • 0

    funkymofo

    What criminal act is alledged(sic) to have happened anyway. Delagates(sic)/representatives were offered gifts of money to be spent any way THEY wished and some of them may have spent the money on professional sex partners or pachinko.

    Are you for real? More pathetic justifications. At this point, all you have is a vague 'he did it first' schoolboy argument and 'Yeah, sure we bribed them, but they decided how they'd spend the cash'.

  • 0

    arrestpaul

    funkymofo - Are you for real? More pathetic justifications. At this point, all you have is a vague 'he did it first' schoolboy argument and 'Yeah, sure we bribed them, but they decided how they'd spend the cash'.

    The WWF established vote buying as standard operating proceedure over 30 years ago and only now you are complaining about the process. How dare someone else try to bribe delagates to the IWC. If there's one thing you can't stand it's when bribed delagates accept a better offer. Where's the loyalty?

  • 0

    mikehuntez

    Funny how people don't believe the media except when it gives them ammo in their opinions. Why not question the actual source of this information? Do you really believe all these countries ministers would admit to have being bribed?

  • 0

    funkymofo

    mikehuntz, The individuals in question were filmed. Are you suggesting the Times (a trusted newspaper, not a tabloid as some have tried to imply) fabricated the footage?

  • 0

    lrodriguezsosa

    from Wikipedia: However, since the late 1970s and early 1980s, many countries which have no previous history of whaling (some of which are landlocked such as Switzerland and Mongolia) have joined the IWC. This shift was first initiated by Sir Peter Scott, the then head of the World Wildlife Fund. Labelling the IWC a "butchers' club", he mounted lobbying campaigns in developed countries with support from the green lobby and anti whaling block of IWC members to change the composition of the IWC's membership, which was instrumental in obtaining the necessary three-quarters majority vote to implement the moratorium on commercial whaling in 1986. This campaign triggered the first accusations of vote-buying in IWC. According to Scott's biographer, Elspeth Huxley, China's decision to join was influenced by a World Wildlife Fund promise to provide $1 million to fund a panda reserve. Dr. Michael Tillman, former IWC Commissioner of the United States, said in a radio interview that "there was what we called 'common knowledge,' that a number of countries joined and that their dues and the travel support was reportedly due to conservation groups providing it. So that, in a sense, one could say that the conservation groups set out a strategy that the Japanese copied."

  • 0

    OssanAmerica

    funkymofo at 11:23 PM JST - 14th June Are you suggesting the Times (a trusted newspaper, not a tabloid as some >have tried to imply) fabricated the footage?

    The Times has shown itself to be an anti-whaling propaganda mouthpice so we can chuck that "trusted" out the window. If they wanted to really do any expose of bribing and politics in the IWC they could hreporte the WHOLE TRUTH and made it clear that bribing for votes started with the anti-whaling faction. Instead they blast this news as if Japan invented it. Yellow journalism at it's best.

  • 0

    mikehuntez

    Funky, they were filmed? I'd love to see the film then. Got a url for me?

  • 0

    funkymofo

    Mikehuntez,

    Well, I checked the articles I could, you can just google it yourself, and there's mention of filming. I haven't seen it, but it'd be a giggle to watch. If I find it, I'll let you know. The original article is here:

    http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/environment/article7149091.ece

    Concerning filming-

    Japan denies buying the votes of IWC members. However, The Sunday Times filmed officials from pro-whaling governments admitting....

  • 0

    KeikoTokyo

    Ossan;"The Times has shown itself to be an anti-whaling propaganda mouthpice so we can chuck that "trusted" out the window."

    Are you once again denying indefensible proof? & stating all the world is just racist? Oh but then once again you are American right? Where SSCS holds NPO rights, & is based? So why are you not petitioning/protesting them to loose this right in your own home country? While at the same time stating if other countries wish to close the 'loophole' then they should also bribe the IWC? But then again you complain when Aus takes Japan to the ICJ to close the 'loophole'? So where do you actually stand? Or does it just change with the argument?

  • 0

    amerijap

    Britain’s Sunday Times reported in its online edition that Japan had bribed small nations with cash and prostitutes to gain their support for the mass slaughter of whales.

    The International Whaling Commission (IWC) commissioner for Tanzania said “call girls” were made available at the hotels for ministers and senior fisheries civil servants during all-expenses paid trips to Japan, the paper reported.

    Geez, I wonder how many people(in this board and beyond) will believe the statement above. Does BST have the report in hardcopy, too? What is/are the credentials of news writer(s)?? And, who got the news in the first place???

  • 0

    mikehuntez

    Funky I did read that article but I didn't see any reference to where we can see the actual footage of what they filmed. So until then it's just blah blah blah. And who wouldn't claim that they were wined and dined and paid big time if they think a counter offer is coming and want to have it overly inflated. What I want is proof of allegations not hearsay. But I don't doubt that agreements between nations exist. They get aid priority if they scratch Japan's back. I don't call that bribery just business as in the rest of the world. Proof of outright bribery should be available if it's going to be alleged by someone. But will it be as forthcoming as the proof that they are trying to kill us in the southern ocean BS? This is just propaganda to hurt reputation with the upcoming IWC meeting.

  • 0

    apecNetworks

    The Times have digital images of the call girls? Just out of curiosity, could JT get the photos and the estimated prices for the incident? I have no idea, and inflation is around.

  • 0

    sarcasm123

    Bwahaha, when bad news comes some here demand to see every little detail, not believing any word until they see things with their own eyes.

    Yet... When Japan claims whaling is their tradition, how many of them checked by themselves to see if this was true? When the Japanese claim they are doing research, how many of them checked the relevance of this research, either by themselves or by reading comments made by other researchers in the same field?

    NOT A SINGLE ONE.

  • 0

    LouReed

    She blinded me with science.

  • 0

    america2010

    Yes, this group is about anti-whaling as a entity can get. They probabily will remove this posting as they did my previous ones, they don't believe in any type of free speech.

    One message fron the USA, we will WORK towards bringing back whaling. President Obama wants this, and all American support him. Let's harpoon some whales.....

  • 0

    Aaron2008

    This lyric below might help serve purpose here:

    You got to know when to hold 'em, know when to fold 'em, Know when to walk away and know when to run.

  • 0

    ramses68

    We have paid professionals to do this in the states, we call them "Lobbyists". Governments negotiate through aid packages all the time to get what they want, unfortunately, throwing prostitutes and cash into the bargain seems downright seedy. I do believe, however, that Japan has a right to lobby other countries to their side with aid packages, fisheries buildings, etc. Feel badly for those whose tax money may have gone toward this, heads would have rolled over here, be interesting to see if anything like that happens over there.

  • 0

    arrestpaul

    sarcasm123 - Bwahaha, when bad news comes some here demand to see every little detail, not believing any word until they see things with their own eyes.

    Yes, that would be the most prudent approach. Are you suggesting that the viewing public should believe everything they read on the internet simply because it's on the internet?

    To paraphrase Claude Rains in the movie Casablanca, "I'm shocked, SHOCKED that there are phoney stories on the internet".

  • 0

    taiko666

    @OssanAmerica

    It seems you're not particularly angry about Japan's underhand and sleazy schemes. However, you are indignant that somebody has reported them. I would think this is a pretty common stance in the pro-"scientific whaling" camp.

  • 0

    sarcasm123

    arrestpaul, I give you today's "Selective quoting" award. Care to comment on the second part of what I wrote?

  • 0

    OssanAmerica

    taiko666 at 10:05 PM JST - 15th June @OssanAmerica It seems you're not particularly angry about Japan's underhand and >sleazy schemes. However, you are indignant that somebody has reported >them. I would think this is a pretty common stance in the pro->"scientific whaling" camp.

    Since you know nothing about what you speak let me correct you. Japan's "underhanded and sleazy" methods were copied from the WWF and the anti-whaling faction within the IWC. The Sunday Times, by reporting a "half-truth" has exposed itself as an anti-whaling propaganda mouthpiece and not an objective trustworthy news source. THAT is what I am indignant of. You understand the difference? Additionally, I am neither pro-scientific whaling nor anti-scientific whaling, a term which makes no sense whatsoever because the IWC Article VIII regulations on Scientific Whaling doesn't call for being pro or anti by anyone. It's right that every IWC member has. If people would get their limited brains out of their rear ends and actually READ the IWC proposal they would understand that IT REDUCES WHALES GETTING KILLED and IT CLOSES THE SCIENTIFIC WHALING LOOPHOLE. But most people are essentially mental sheep, lead on the "conservationist groups" that need something to wage war upon and therefore justify calling for contributions. baaaa.

  • 0

    OssanAmerica

    sarcasm123 at 10:08 AM JST - 15th June Yet... When Japan claims whaling is their tradition, how many of them >checked by themselves to see if this was true?

    http://luna.pos.to/whale/jwa_trad.html

    When the Japanese claim they are doing research, how many of them >checked the relevance of this research, either by themselves or by >reading comments made by other researchers in the same field?

    That the IWC Scientific Committee accepts Japan's Research Reports is sufficient, is't it?

  • 0

    Zenny11

    Looking at the current IWC proposal I think ALL whale-lovers should support it.

    Besides the extremists who INSIST no whale gets killed by whaling, sonar, etc.

    The current proposal will do away with research whaling, which bassically any IWC member can do if they so desire.

    In exchange some nations can still do "commercial whaling" but with a smaller catch-limit.

    The proposal as it stands would save the same amount of whales(YEARLY that japan takes) that SSCS claims to have saved this year.

    There is no bribe needed to supporft the IWC proposal but as long as Australia and SSCS will continue to work against the IWC charter expect the japanese to play rough and insist on their way.

    Choices I see: Be for the IWC proposal which caters to "most" parties or keep going as things are now(in which case more whales will die).

  • 0

    arrestpaul

    sarcasm123 - I give you today's "Selective quoting" award. Care to comment on the second part of what I wrote?

    • sarcasm123 - Bwahaha, when bad news comes some here demand to see every little detail, not believing any word until they see things with their own eyes.

    Care to comment on the first part of what you wrote?

  • 0

    sarcasm123

    Oh, sure, arrestpaul, I will comment on it, playing along with your childish game for a second.

    sarcasm123 - Bwahaha, when bad news comes some here demand to see every little detail, not believing any word until they see things with their own eyes.

    Here I go, are you paying attention? Like I said, when some news appears, and a certain type of poster does not like it, they often demand to see the original proof. This has in general 3 reasons: 1. they want to see the proof, which is a natural and positive response. 2. they have no idea how to give a reasonable reply to the news, so they are mainly trying to gain some time. 3. they want to make the opponent give up on the discussion by asking unreasonable requests (such as asking for evidence that obviously cannot be found easily, or is not available).

    I would say that you and others are using the requests for more evidence in all 3 ways. After all, you do know that the video of these officials being framed is not available yet, do you? Yet some ask for it, as if they can ignore the accusations in the article "because the video is not available". Can you see how stupid this is? Don't worry. Or the video will appear some day, or it will be shown to those to whom it really matters (judges perhaps?). This idea that ALL evidence is out there just for your convenience is an illusion.

    Now, for the second part of what I wrote, the part you "conveniently" forgot to quote.

    Yet... When Japan claims whaling is their tradition, how many of them checked by themselves to see if this was true? When the Japanese claim they are doing research, how many of them checked the relevance of this research, either by themselves or by reading comments made by other researchers in the same field?

    While the request for more evidence seems like a noble one, it suddenly disappears in the case of news or rumours that fit with the opinion of the commenter. No, suddenly random pages written by who knows are sufficient (see the link given by OssanAmerica above for example). Be very sure of it: not a single pro-whaler here has ever read ANY of the so called "research papers" produced by the whalers, nor have they ever read the comments given by people from the same field. After all, the "request for more evidence" is very flexible: when they want reject criticism every piece of evidence is useful, but on the other hand: when they do NOT want something to be rejected every piece of further information is to be avoided. That is why they stay away from further looking into the scientific part of this topic: they KNOW that any additional piece of information will only turn out to their disadvantage.

    Now, again, care to comment on this second part? I don't think so.

    Moderator: How about giving the reader a chance to comment before saying "I don't think so."

  • 0

    arrestpaul

    sarcasm123 - Bwahaha, when bad news comes some here demand to see every little detail, not believing any word until they see things with their own eyes.

    • Here I go, they often demand to see the original proof. This has in general 3 reasons: 1. they want to see the proof, which is a natural and positive response. 2. they have no idea how to give a reasonable reply to the news, so they are mainly trying to gain some time. 3. they want to make the opponent give up on the discussion by asking unreasonable requests (such as asking for evidence that obviously cannot be found easily, or is not available).

    Hmmm, I'll go with choice number 1. 1. they want to see the proof, which is a natural and positive response. Yes, I want to see the proof for myself. I've been around far too long to start believing something just because it appeared in print or was reported on the radio. I have no idea who works for who or who represents what agenda. SHOW ME THE PROOF.

    Part II - I have actually read one of the research papers or at least attempted to. It was about whale ear bones and their ability to hear. It was a bit over my head but the research wasn't written for me. The fact that the research exists is sufficient.

    The bottom line is that the IWC OK'd the taking of 1/10 of 1 percent of the minke whales. That small sample is NOT going to affect the overall population of the minke. The anti-whalers do not want ANY whales killed. That's just plain foolish to me. It's a resource and mankind can easily manage it.

    Blaming japan for "possibly" (I still want to see the proof.) bribing delegates that were willing to be bribed. That seems to be the only reason that many of these NON-whaling nations joined the IWC in the first place. The anti-whalers (WWF) started this tradition of bribery 30 years ago and it looks like they're mad because they got beat at their own game. Boo hoo.

    What I find absolutly astounding is that the anti-whalers chose to ignore video after video of the Sea Shepards repeatedly attacking the whalers. Someone is going to get killed.

  • 0

    sarcasm123

    Double standards again.

    Hmmm, I'll go with choice number 1.

    It is not a choice, my dear. All 3 are present, pretty obviously.

    Yes, I want to see the proof for myself. I've been around far too long to start believing something just because it appeared in print or was reported on the radio. I have no idea who works for who or who represents what agenda. SHOW ME THE PROOF.

    Ok, keep this idea in mind, and then read the following:

    The fact that the research exists is sufficient.

    So rather than being interested in content, you are just happy if something is reported. Does not fit with your "SHOW ME THE PROOF", as in: "show me the proof that this research is really relevant". Double standard No. 1.

    The bottom line is that the IWC OK'd the taking of 1/10 of 1 percent of the minke whales. That small sample is NOT going to affect the overall population of the minke.

    Those population numbers come from the whalers themselves. Yet, not for a second have you questioned this number. Does not fit with your idea of

    I've been around far too long to start believing something just because it appeared in print or was reported on the radio. I have no idea who works for who or who represents what agenda. SHOW ME THE PROOF.

    Which is double standard No. 2.

    Blaming japan for "possibly" (I still want to see the proof.)

    Yes, HERE you want to see proof, and in the 2 cases I pointed out above you did NOT want to see proof. Got it now? Why the double standards?

    What I find absolutly astounding is that the anti-whalers chose to ignore video after video of the Sea Shepards repeatedly attacking the whalers. Someone is going to get killed.

    And the video of the whalers shooting pepper spray onto each other, right?

  • 0

    arrestpaul

    sarcasm123 - Double standards again.

    I saw that the research exists. That would be the proof that I'm looking for. That's what you asked me about. Did I see the research? The answer is yes.

    If YOU have a different total for the number of minke whales I'd like to see it. Please provide a link so I can check the number provider myself.

    I answered your questions, maybe you could explain the reasons that the anti-whalers ignore or deny the videos showing Bethune, Watson and the Sea Shepards violent attacks on the whalers.

  • 0

    zurcronium

    Is prostitution a part of the "research" that the Japan Whaling Reactionary forces promotes?

    Lets face it whaling is so 1800s. Only those that want to live in the past care about this, in others words the Yaks and other right wing criminals.

  • 0

    OssanAmerica

    Looks like those accused by the Sunday TImes of receiving Bribes are speaking out.

    "BASSETERRE, St Kitts, Wednesday June 16, 2010 - The St Kitts and Nevis official named in a British newspaper report on countries accepting bribes to support Japan’s pro-whaling stance has described the article as being part of “an evil and vicious effort” to smear the twin-island federation and other small nations. Marine Resources Minister Dr Timothy Harris made his own allegations as he dismissed the report in The Sunday Times. Both his country and Grenada are denying that they were selling or willing to sell their whaling vote. “I think what we have here is clearly an effort by those who are opposed to whaling to use every means, including means of subterfuge, to influence policy positions of small countries that are members of the IWC (International Whaling Commission),” Dr Harris told WinnFM. “

    http://www.caribbean360.com/index.php/news/28229.html

  • 0

    ChrisBiggins

    OssanAmerica, The Sunday Times is owned by news corp and is anti SS and has little interest in whaling, but my dear, it does like to investigate corruption.

    It is not common for villians to admit guilt is it now.

    Moderator: Cut out the "my dear" please.

  • 0

    arrestpaul

    ChrisBiggins - It is not common for villians to admit guilt is it now, yawny wawny!!!

    And it's not uncommon for villians to produce phoney news reports.

    This is a simple issue to solve. Just release the "alledged" videos and let the public decide for themselves. What are they waiting for? What are they afraid of?

  • 0

    ChrisBiggins

    arrestpaul, Japan has offered no denial! Who is afraid now?

  • 0

    arrestpaul

    ChrisBiggins - Japan has offered no denial! Who is afraid now?

    I'm afraid that you didn't actually read the Sunday Times article, did you. Tsk, tsk.

    This is a simple issue to solve. Just release the "alledged" videos and let the public decide for themselves.

  • 0

    KeikoTokyo

    "The German parliament has declared that in order to be granted EU membership, Iceland must stop whaling,"; http://www.icelandreview.com/icelandreview/dailynews/?catid=40764&ew0a_id=363870

    So I guess Japan will not be bribing Germany, or other EU nations then!

  • 0

    mikehuntez

    I'm still waiting to see this video. Come on where is it? It exists as does the Sea Shepherd research that all whales are becoming extinct. Like the seals they are at the verge of extinction. Oh my dear!! Where exactly is SS research documented? The same place as where this video is; in the minds of anti-whalers who have now turned to a smear campaign weeks before the IWC meeting. Good Luck!! Credibility is up there with North Korea.

  • 0

    blunderbuss

    Britain’s Sunday Times reported in its online edition that Japan had bribed small nations with cash and prostitutes to gain their support for [****insert cause or agenda here****].

    Business as usual! ...But why should Britain care if the Japanese want to eat whale meat?

  • 0

    KeikoTokyo

    blunderbuss;"Business as usual! ...But why should Britain care if the Japanese want to eat whale meat?"

    The article is about bribery & corruption of a world organisation to suit the wishes of 1 country. & I guess like most nations that have followed the moratorium on whaling see this corruption as another abuse of the IWC. as the IWC is not there to do Japans bidding.

  • 0

    OssanAmerica

    "The German parliament has declared that in order to be granted EU >membership, Iceland must stop whaling,"; >http://www.icelandreview.com/icelandreview/dailynews/?>catid=40764&ew0a_id=363870

    So I guess Japan will not be bribing Germany, or other EU nations then!

    Germany is blackmailing Iceland. I'd say that's far far worse than bribing.

  • 0

    taiko666

    @OssanAmerica

    Disregarding all your insults, which also seem par for the course, we're not debating the IWC proposal here, we're debating Japan's sleaze as reported in the article. You still unable to criticize this sleaze, stating instead that it was copied from other IWC members. So, it's copycat sleaze? Guess that makes it ok then.

    BTW, your understanding of blackmail seems to be a little askew.

  • 0

    cleo

    Germany is blackmailing Iceland.

    'Blackmail' involves demanding money from a person in return for not revealing compromising or injurious information about that person. Germany hasn't (unless you know differently) demanded any money from Iceland, and is not threatening to reveal the information that it is a whaling nation. Guess what, it's already common knowledge.

    So, if you want to come into my home and I ask you to take your shoes off because that's what everyone who comes into my home is expected to do, am I blackmailing you? I don't think so.

  • 0

    OssanAmerica

    taiko666 at 10:46 PM JST - 17th June @OssanAmerica Disregarding all your insults, which also seem par for the course,

    What insults? Show me.

    we're not debating the IWC proposal here, we're debating Japan's sleaze >as reported in the article. You still unable to criticize this sleaze, >stating instead that it was copied from other IWC members. So, it's >copycat sleaze? Guess that makes it ok then.

    Not only is the alleged "bribing" a copy of what the anti-whaling faction started in the IWC, but the countries that have been named by the newspaper have openly denied that this is true. So what then would be the basis to criticizing Japan? That a newspaper ran a dubious one sided propaganda article? If anything there are more grounds top criticise the anti-whaling faction for their "sleazy and underhanded" madia manipulation prior to the IWC vote. And make no mistake about it, this is ALL ABOUT THE IWC PROPOSAL.

  • 0

    arrestpaul

    KeikoTokyo - "The German parliament has declared that in order to be granted EU membership, Iceland must stop whaling,"

    So I guess Japan will not be bribing Germany, or other EU nations then!

    Apparently, Germany has already been bribed by the WWF and the other animal rights organizations that have ADMITTED to bribing nations for the last 30 years to vote against whaling.

    Remaining loyal to the first organization that bribes you must be considered a valuable trait in some circles.

  • 0

    cleo

    What duress is being applied to Iceland? What threats or pressure is Germany using to influence Iceland's actions? Saying 'You can't join our club if you don't agree with and abide by the values of the club' is not duress, any more than asking you to take your shoes off if you want to come into my house. If you want to keep your shoes on, you're totally at liberty to stay outside. Same with Iceland. It's a simple choice, there's no duress, no threats, no pressure. You'll notice the EU has no member states where slavery is practiced, and no dictatorships. Would you say any slave-owning dictatorship that was required to change its ways before being considered for admission was being 'blackmailed'?

  • 0

    arrestpaul

    KeikoTokyo - The article is about bribery and corruption of a world organisation to suit the wishes of 1 country. I guess like most nations that have followed the moratorium on whaling see this corruption as another abuse of the IWC. as the IWC is not there to do Japans bidding.

    Of course not, it was firmly established 30 yrs ago that only the WWF and anti-whaling organizations are allowed to bribe IWC nations to influence the vote.

  • 0

    OssanAmerica

    Germany is applying duress on Iceland to change their position as regards whaling, ie; their position at the IWC proposal vote comming up. Demanding that Iceland follow ERU rules once it is a member is valid, not before and not with the purpose of influencing their voting.

    Saying 'You can't join our club if you don't agree with and abide by the >values of the club' is not duress, any more than asking you to take your >shoes off if you want to come into my house. If you want to keep your >shoes on, you're totally at liberty to stay outside. Same with Iceland.

    No, what Germany is saying is equivalent to demanding that you change your policy towards wearing shoes in the house before I consider letting you in. That's very different from demanding that you remove your shoes once you're in my house.

    Same with Iceland. It's a simple choice, there's no duress, no threats, >no pressure

    The Icelandic government clearly disagrees with you.

    You'll notice the EU has no member states where slavery is practiced, >and no dictatorships.

    Neither Slavery nor Dictatorships existed in Europe by 1993. Rather silly example.

    "“The German congress has with its decree on April 22nd 2010, declared full support of formal negotiation with Iceland, which aims to make Iceland a full member of the EU. At the same time, the Parliament has declared that Iceland must make amends in regards to whale preservation in accordance with international and EU law.”

    "According to the Minister of Fisheries and Agriculture Jón Bjarnason, the Icelandic government is willing to participate in a group working towards reaching a compromise regarding whaling. The International Whaling Committee will meet in Morocco later this month and the Icelandic government cannot be influenced by EU demands during that process."

    http://www.icelandreview.com/icelandreview/search/news/Default.asp?ew0a_id=363870

    Is this economic duress? I'd say so.

    "Iceland, reeling from the collapse of its major banks, submitted its EU application last July."

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/world/europe/10342863.stm

  • 0

    cleo

    what Germany is saying is equivalent to demanding that you change your policy towards wearing shoes in the house before I consider letting you in. That's very different from demanding that you remove your shoes once you're in my house.

    It's no different. I can't tell you what to do in your own little shack, but if you want to come and live in my house you take your shoes off at the door, not after you're traipsed your mud all the way through to your own bedroom.

    Germany is asking Iceland to make amends with regards to whale preservation in accordance with international and EU law. Asking a prospective member of your club to observe the law is not duress, economic or otherwise.

  • 0

    KeikoTokyo

    Ossan, just to prove my previous statement;

    http://www.japantoday.com/category/politics/view/japan-may-quit-whaling-commission-if-ban-stays-put

  • 0

    OssanAmerica

    cleo at 01:18 AM JST - 18th June what Germany is saying is equivalent to demanding that you change your >policy towards wearing shoes in the house before I consider letting you >in. That's very different from demanding that you remove your shoes once >you're in my house.

    It's no different. I can't tell you what to do in your own little shack,

    Well that's exactly where Iceland is UNTIL they become a member of the EU. In fact, even nations that have laws and rules which conflict with those of he EU are given time to make the adjustment. Furthermore it wasn't the EU that made this demand on Iceland, it was one of the EU members acting on it's own.

    but if you want to come and live in my house you take your shoes off at >the door, not after you're traipsed your mud all the way through to your >own bedroom.

    Anyone who is going to enter your house will have to abide by it. But the same person does not have to follow it visiting other homes before yours. Germany is demanding a policy change on the pat of Iceland before they are a member.

    Germany is asking Iceland to make amends with regards to whale >preservation in accordance with international and EU law. Asking a >prospective member of your club to observe the law is not duress, >economic or otherwise.

    Sure it is. Do you think Iceland is applying for EU membership for fun? Iceland has been in dire economic straits for years now. Asking a member to observe the EU law/rules if fine. Threatening an applicant, who is not yet a member to "vote a certain way", if they want to be considered for membership is blackmail. It attempts to influence Iceland's action through threat. And let's remember that that EU collectively did not make this demand on Iceland, after all even the EU position on the IWC vote is yet to be established as Denmark and Sweden are supporting a negotiated propsal whereas England and Germany are not.

  • 0

    yelspal

    Go Germany. Iceland can like it or lump it. I don't have the same passion about Iceland's whaling as I do about Japan's because while they rape their own seas - they don't come down to my part of the world and do it.

    However, if IWC endorse it - and Iceland come a-whaling down my way - they'd better bring their own LRADs and more.

  • 0

    mikehuntez

    The Southern Ocean is not yours yelspal. It's nobody's but the Earth's. Germany doing what it is doing is like India refusing westerners into the country because they eat beef. Stop eating beef if you want to come into the country!! It's different from being in the country and killing a cow to eat it. So I think Ossan is on the right track cleo.

  • 0

    Damien15

    Germany is blackmailing Iceland. I'd say that's far far worse than bribing.

    Yea, not really. They are trying to get them obey the rules of the bloc. It's not blackmailing.

  • 0

    Damien15

    The Southern Ocean is not yours yelspal. It's nobody's but the Earth's.

    Earth is made up of its people. And what majority demands should be the way to go. I will be in yelspal's boat when the time comes, and Ossan's claim for hypocracy is baseless.

  • 0

    Zenny11

    Damien15.

    Majority of the Human race I would say is made up by India and China, so far they are rather quiet on the whole subject.

  • 0

    cleo

    Iceland has been in dire economic straits for years now.

    Lots of countries are in dire economic straits. Being in dire economic straits does not give any country automatic free access to EU membership. Quite the contrary. There are lots of hurdles to jump, some of them pretty high. Ask Turkey or Croatia. Nor does being in dire economic straits give a country the right to ignore international law, though you seem to be suggesting that it does. Please correct me if I'm reading you wrong.

    Threatening an applicant, who is not yet a member to "vote a certain way", if they want to be considered for membership is blackmail.

    I cannot find any news article that says Germany is threatening to refuse to consider Iceland for membership of the EU, and in fact your own quote states 'The German congress has with its decree on April 22nd 2010, declared full support of formal negotiation with Iceland, which aims to make Iceland a full member of the EU'. Sounds pretty positive to me. Your Iceland Review link has an interview with the Icelandic Foreign Minister in which he's quoted as saying this is a day of good fortune for Iceland, because I believe that the application and a membership of the European Union is a fundament in the rebuilding of a New Iceland. I am convinced that this will bring us fortune and prosperity

    That doesn't sound to me like a government suffering duress and blackmail. It isn't clear who is responsible for the 'Iceland cannot be influenced' quote, but it seems to come from the Minister for Fisheries. But then he would say that, wouldn't he?

  • 0

    OssanAmerica

    Damien15 at 05:55 PM JST - 18th June Germany is blackmailing Iceland. I'd say that's far far worse than >bribing. Yea, not really. They are trying to get them obey the rules of the bloc. >It's not blackmailing.

    Not when Iceland is not a member of the bloc. It's blackmail; an attempt to influence action trough threat.

    Damien15 at 06:04 PM JST - 18th June The Southern Ocean is not yours yelspal. It's nobody's but the Earth's. Earth is made up of its people. And what majority demands should be the >way to go. I will be in yelspal's boat when the time comes, and Ossan's >claim for hypocracy is baseless.

    Australia's claim is recognized by 4 or 5 countries in the world. None of the "major" powers, United States, Russia, China recognize it. A far cry from the "majority".

  • 0

    arrestpaul

    cleo - Lots of countries are in dire economic straits. Being in dire economic straits does not give any country automatic free access to EU membership. Quite the contrary. There are lots of hurdles to jump, some of them pretty high. Ask Turkey or Croatia. Nor does being in dire economic straits give a country the right to ignore international law, though you seem to be suggesting that it does. Please correct me if I'm reading you wrong.

    I agree that there are many, many hurdles that must be crossed before a country can join the EU. (I doubt Turkey will ever be able to gain membership but that a different issue.) One hurdle would be a single members (Germany) concern about Icelands position on whaling. I seriously doubt that this would be a deal breaker.

    Maybe you can help me out? I'm not familiar with the EU's rules or regulations concerning the whaling activities of it's members. Are members allowed to make their own decisions? Does the EU explicitly allow/deny whaling? Does the EU accept the IWC's decisions on INTERNATIONAL whaling?

  • 0

    OssanAmerica

    cleo at 07:16 PM JST - 18th June Iceland has been in dire economic straits for years now. Lots of countries are in dire economic straits. Being in dire economic >straits does not give any country automatic free access to EU >membership. Quite the contrary. There are lots of hurdles to jump, some >of them pretty high. Ask Turkey or Croatia. Nor does being in dire >economic straits give a country the right to ignore international law, >though you seem to be suggesting that it does. Please correct me if I'm >reading you wrong.

    I think you've missed my point entirely. Iceland has an economic motive in applying for EU membership. For Germany to threaten to block the application, UNLESS Iceland votes the way Germany wants it to on the IWC propsal is ECONOMIC DURESS. IE; Blackmail.

    I cannot find any news article that says Germany is threatening to >refuse to consider Iceland for membership of the EU,

    I guess you missed the big bold heading at the begining of the article.

    "16.06.2010 | 17:00 Germany Wants Iceland to Stop Whaling The German parliament has declared that in order to be granted EU membership, Iceland must stop whaling, mbl.is reports.

    http://www.icelandreview.com/icelandreview/search/news/Default.asp?ew0a_id=363870

    and in fact your own quote states 'The German congress has with its >decree on April 22nd 2010, declared full support of formal negotiation >with Iceland, which aims to make Iceland a full member of the EU'. >Sounds pretty positive to me.

    I see you debiberately left out the second part of the paragraph:

    "At the same time, the Parliament has declared that Iceland must make amends in regards to whale preservation in accordance with international and EU law.”

    Your Iceland Review link has an interview with the Icelandic Foreign >Minister in which he's quoted as saying this is a day of good fortune >for Iceland, because I believe that the application and a membership of >the European Union is a fundament in the rebuilding of a New Iceland. I >am convinced that this will bring us fortune and prosperity That doesn't sound to me like a government suffering duress and >blackmail. It isn't clear who is responsible for the 'Iceland cannot be >influenced' quote, but it seems to come from the Minister for Fisheries. >But then he would say that, wouldn't he?

    Of course he would say that. Do you think ANY member of Iceland's government would agree to be blackmailed? And the Fisheries Minister is the appropriate person to declare that they "will not be influenced" (by Germany's threat) because that Ministry is the one that will be sending representativesto vote at Agadir.

    "According to the Minister of Fisheries and Agriculture Jón Bjarnason, the Icelandic government is willing to participate in a group working towards reaching a compromise regarding whaling."

    Germany and Englad are against this. Denmark and Sweden are for it. Hence no unified EU position has yet been established.

    "The International Whaling Committee will meet in Morocco later this month and the Icelandic government cannot be influenced by EU demands during that process."

    Just exactly what do you think the "'Iceland cannot be influenced" statement is referring to? It is refering to Germany's demand that Icelande votes the way Germany wants it to. Please cleo, I expect these denial-of-reality arguments from the trolls, not from you.

  • 0

    realist

    Why am I not surprised by this story? It is nothing short of disgusting, and I thought things had changed with the arrival of the DPJ as the ruling party. Obviously, nothing every changes in dear old Nippon. The Japanese bureaucrats seem to think they can bribe anyone to do anything, in order to gain some advantage for Japan. Really sickening.

  • 0

    Eddisofbextar

    Gotta love the Deri-heru here...

    is there even a department in stations for prostitution?

    guess not, as they would be pulling what, 30% of the girls found in shinjuku, shibuya etc off the streets, not to mention the part time enjyo kosai school girls.

    the dirty secret that everyone turns a blind eye to.

    if proven true, i wonder if the spirits of the whales will find some sort of peace of mind....

  • 0

    Aaron2008

    Hey kids! Have a look at this article: http://www.newsweek.com/2010/03/04/toyota-and-the-end-of-japan.html#

    "Japan will continue to give up, fade away, and blame its limitations on demographics and the changing international balance of power.

    In this bleak view, the Japanese will return to their mantra of shoganai (nothing can be done). Indeed, it seems that Japan's long decline may not be accelerating, but the prevailing sentiment is that nothing can be done to apply the brakes".

    One would think that if this were factual, let alone all the eikaiwa shutdowns, coupled with the moaning and groaning that goes on here as a reflection of the difficulty of life in Japan, you might want to think about getting off the Titanic when you can. If you're a foreigner, you got options that most Japanese don't.

    Oh, yeah. Don't forget to turn the lights off when you leave. (LOL)

  • 0

    space_monkey

    A lot of the whales they hunt spend 90% of the time in Australian waters. Japan hunts them the 10% of the time they aren't in our waters.

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