Japan catches 59 whales off Kushiro

Tuesday 20th October, 06:21 AM JST

The requested article has expired, and is no longer available. Any related articles, and user comments are shown below.

› Login to comment

Latest 15 of 112 Total Comments Show All

Nessie at 03:18 PM JST - 26th October

Here in Hokkaido, which is where this hunt was, most people I've met have eaten whale. There's one whale specialty restaurant here in Sapporo. But I haven't met any Japanese of any age that are too keen on the stuff.
jessssicaaa at 03:55 PM JST - 26th October

I can understand why westerners are againt whaling but i can also see why Japan is not ^^

Some obvious reasons being, they were brought up with it being ok and its a source of food.

westerners, strangly, seem to not know how we get fish, ya know the stuff we buy in the markets and shopping cetres? it comes from the sea! ;o shock and horror!!!! ^^

I can understand whales are important and all, but unfortunatly there is going to be a drop in sea creatures AND land creatures, we cant just stop that from happening, save the animals or quit eating any kind of meats? and dont go herbivore on me cause i dont want that option xD good for you if you are, but that doesnt mean the rest of us have to ^^.

We are born meat eaters, hunters, and we are trying to stop something that years ago was the natural way to get food (and still is) and nobody thought twice about it? Since then population has grown, and food demands have increased, plus some people are pigs these days, and stuff there faces even without being hungry.
cleo at 04:25 PM JST - 26th October

westerners, strangly, seem to not know how we get fish

On the contrary, we know where the whale meat comes from and how it gets to us. Which is why we think it's a Bad Thing. Some of us think the same about fish and other animals.

there is going to be a drop in sea creatures AND land creatures, we cant just stop that from happening, save the animals or quit eating any kind of meats?

Not quite sure if you're saying we can't 'save the animals and quit eating any kind of meats' or that we should....

and dont go herbivore on me cause i dont want that option xD good for you if you are, but that doesnt mean the rest of us have to

The world simply cannot support 7,8,9 billion people all pigging out on meat. Either you can choose to cut down your meat consumption, or your grandchildren will 'have to'.

some people are pigs these days, and stuff there faces even without being hungry.

That sounds like a good argument in favour of shooting whales with exploding harpoons....not.
davidattokyo at 09:42 AM JST - 27th October

cleo,

We now seem agreed that Japan was providing data (despite what the New Zealand government's anti-whalers were saying, and you swallowed so eagerly with fact checking for yourself).

And as you also point out they stopped doing so a couple of years ago due to the nonconstructive use of the data by anti-whalers.

Since Japan doesn't catch marine mammals in the North Atlantic, it's decision to submit data to NAMMCO ... seems bizarre to say the least.

What is bizarre is that anyone would imagine that the differing geographical locations of these people should preclude them from working together to improve their hunting techniques.
davidattokyo at 09:47 AM JST - 27th October

jessssicaaa,

unfortunatly there is going to be a drop in sea creatures AND land creatures, we cant just stop that from happening, save the animals or quit eating any kind of meats?

It doesn't need to be this way. When naturally renewable resources are exploited on a sustainable, conservative basis, the level of those resources can be held more or less flat over a sustained period of time. The science behind this is one of the lessons that has been learnt in part due to the consequences of over-exploitation of some large whale species.

So, we can have our whales and eat them too.

people are pigs these days, and stuff there faces even without being hungry.

This is very true...
diggerdog at 08:53 AM JST - 28th October

if you think about about the amount fish eaten in japan, not just whales, no way can any of it be sustainable.
diggerdog at 08:57 AM JST - 28th October

I think at the end of the day, japan doesnt need whale meat, the majority of people dont actually want to eat it, they are just doing it for the sake of it because its tradition and its what the old guys ate at school during the war. Ive seen events where they make up whale food to try to tempt people to eat it. Its just not commercially viable. If they want to eat it then the government should withdraw funding, let them go hunting and if nobody buys it then the industry would collapse, end of problem.
davidattokyo at 09:40 AM JST - 28th October

Well at least with respect to whales it should be sustainable. I am sure more worried about fish.

japan doesnt need whale meat

Heard it before. No one needs any arbitrary type of food one happens to eat. This isn't an argument against whaling.

Limited supply means realistically only a limited amount of people can actually eat it, but the majority of people who don't eat it don't actually want to prevent other people from doing so.

It does actually taste very good if you have a well prepared meal, that's why my friends who eat it do. But sure some old folks like to eat it because they always did. I don't blame them for it.

Ive seen events where they make up whale food to try to tempt people to eat it.

I've seen events where they make up aussie beef dishes to try to tempt people (children even!) to eat it.

Its just not commercially viable.

Not my impression.

if nobody buys it then the industry would collapse, end of problem.

Exactly. Total agree on this point. In reality however the IWC setting sustainable whaling catch limits is a prerequisite. What the government does fund currently is special permit research whaling. This puts some meat on plates but that's subsidiary.
hobbsy70 at 04:29 PM JST - 28th October

Davidattokyo, if whaling is "commercially viable", as you believe, then why does the Japanese government spend millions of Yen propping up the hunts in the Southern Whale Sanctuary? Does not commercially viable mean it can sustain itself? But then again you believe that slaughtering thousands of whales is "sustainable"! Again with "tradition", the Romans used to feed christians to the lions, so would it be ok now for the Greeks to do the same? According to your arguments it would be because it was "tradition", or maybe, just maybe humankind has moved past this sort of unacceptable behavior? & as for my earlier comment regarding you poisoning yourself with whale & dolphin meat, all you could do was to say "aren't I so inhumane", what about slaughtering of dolphins in an inhumane way, or whales dying over hours, drowning in their own blood, is this the kind of behavior you call humane? Is it not "inhumane" to poison you children with such a diabilatating desease, while knowing you are doing so? But then again you never mentioned "Minimata" desease, or Mercury poisoning again, is that because you know it to be true, & has happened in Japan previously, & has been shown in scientific studies of the meat,(both whale & dolphin), so you would prefer to ignore these health implications & arguments, while you can say others are racist or bigoted towards Japan, when in actual fact we are trying to protect "our oceans",(the worlds, not just for Japan), for ALL future generations, & help prevent you from poisoning your future generations! But we are all so inhumane & bigoted against you, right? As for hunting in Australian & New Zealand territorial waters, it has been documented, as it is also ILLEGAL to hunt in sanctuaries, if you do not believe me look up the definition of the word "sanctuary" in a dictionary! The Southern Ocean Whale Sanctuary is NOT Japanese territorial waters, or anywhere near Japan for that matter, nor is it "traditional" for you to hunt down there. As for Minke whale numbering 400,000, well that is not "millions" is it? By your own admission there! The "spotting" you talk of? Is this the spotting by the whalers before they slaughter them? Gee they would not be biased to increasing those numbers for the sake of keeping the industry going would they??? & finally just how many whales do you need to kill to find out what they eat? Or did you find something totally new & different in the last batch of 59 that got killed? If so what is this amazing new discovery you just made by slaughtering them? Or how old they are, but i guess once they're on the dinner plate they are not going to get any older are they?
davidattokyo at 06:36 PM JST - 28th October

hobbsy70,

Davidattokyo, if whaling is "commercially viable", as you believe, then why does the Japanese government spend millions of Yen propping up the hunts in the Southern Whale Sanctuary?

Commercial whaling is banned currently, and Japan abides by this. With commercial whaling banned, the only option to obtain biological data which the IWC convention recognises as vital for fulfilling it's mandate is special permit whaling. The Japanese government supports this special permit whaling financially, although the majority of the costs are offset by whale meat costs. This is appropriate, because if the operation was selling meat at higher prices and turning profits, it would then technically be commercial, and arguably in violation of the IWC commercial whaling moratorium.

Does not commercially viable mean it can sustain itself?

Yes. But note that there is a commercial whaling moratorium now.

Meanwhile, Iceland no longer abides by this, and it's commercial whaling operators are busy exporting fin whale meat products to Japan, free of government subsidies as far as I know.

But then again you believe that slaughtering thousands of whales is "sustainable"!

It is sustainable if the natural rate of growth is high enough to compensate for the numbers taken. A few thousand whales out of a population of hundreds of thousands is just a couple of percentage points at the maximum.

Again with "tradition", the Romans used to feed christians to the lions, so would it be ok now for the Greeks to do the same?

These days we have a notion of human rights, so no. Whales aren't humans though.

According to your arguments it would be because it was "tradition"

Why do Aussies slaughter kangaroos and cows? It's their tradition I suppose.

as for my earlier comment regarding you poisoning yourself with whale & dolphin meat

The meat is not poisoned. There are levels of toxins etc in different parts of the meat in different species, and generalizations can't be drawn but fair to say that eating different parts in moderation according to their peculiar features is wise.

what about slaughtering of dolphins in an inhumane way

What's a better way of slaughtering them?

whales dying over hours, drowning in their own blood

The vast majority die very rapidly of wounds from explosive harpoons or secondary killing methods, at least in Japan, Iceland, and Norwegian hunts. Can't say the same for US hunts, granted, but they seem to have some financial constraints.

is this the kind of behavior you call humane?

Accidents do happen.

But then again you never mentioned "Minimata" desease

On another thread I was just quoting The National Institute for Minamata Disease (a government organization), and how interesting their advice regarding consumption of whale products was.

in actual fact we are trying to protect "our oceans"

Sustainable utilisation does not harm the oceans.

& help prevent you from poisoning your future generations!

See NIMD comments on dolphin consumption. They infer that frequent consumers might eat a little more baleen whale instead.

As for hunting in Australian & New Zealand territorial waters, it has been documented

The international community doesn't recognise those territorial claims, let alone Japan.

it is also ILLEGAL to hunt in sanctuaries

Special permit catches are legal in "sanctuaries".

if you do not believe me look up the definition of the word "sanctuary" in a dictionary!

Read the IWC's convention carefully. Their use of "sanctuary" does not prevent special permit whaling, only commercial whaling. These sanctuaries were only created AFTER the "moratorium" and AFTER Japan was already conducting special permit operations. "Sanctuaries" are just duplicating the "moratorium" which also has no effect on special permit whaling.

Both the moratorium and sanctuaries ought be abolished and sustainable catch limits set appropriately.

As for Minke whale numbering 400,000, well that is not "millions" is it?

Globally there probably are about a million, but in any case 400,000 is enough for sustainable utilisation.

Gee they would not be biased to increasing those numbers for the sake of keeping the industry going would they???

The IWC has an independent programme which counted the whales. Japan only provided the vessels on which the international researchers did the counting on.

did you find something totally new & different in the last batch of 59 that got killed?

The results were different from last year, if you check the reports and compare. I do recommend you check the reports if you are interested.

Or how old they are, but i guess once they're on the dinner plate they are not going to get any older are they?

Age is important for modeling population dynamics which helps us understand what levels of utilisation would be sustainable.
hobbsy70 at 11:29 AM JST - 29th October

So once again davidattokyo you admit what you are doing is ILLEGAL & against the IWC moratorium on commercial whaling, the "research" is just a ruse for killing whales for your dinner plates, & yet you do it in sanctuaries, you just contradicted yourself with your own comments & arguments! So which is it? "commercial" or "research"? & if it is subsidized by the government just to make it not "commercial", & is done in a designated sanctuary, is that not ILLEGAL, & brokered by your government? & if it is all so above board why do the Japanese buy off small broke countries to vote with them in the IWC, is that not corruption?

The levels of mercury found in dolphin & whale meat is toxic by your health standards, & the rest of the worlds as well. & if these territories are not internationally recognized, then how do Patagonian Toothfishermen from Sth America end up prosocuted for fishing in these waters? & previously you have complained of other hunts being carried out in Japanese waters, but now according to you Japan can hunt anywhere it likes? You are quite the hypocrite. Just like by saying eating mercury laced whale meat is going to help people with Minimata desease, so treat mercury poisoning with more mercury???

So if there were 400,000 Japanese left in the world, would you consider it sustainable for us to keep killing them, at rates their reproduction could not keep up with? But as you say;"accidents do happen"! Ohhh that's right, you are all for human rights, what about destroying & over fishing of the oceans & in turn destroying ecosystems that all humans rely on to survive, is not that an abuse of human rights, for the rest of the world not just Japan?

The results were different from last year? So please impart these amazing new facts you learnt from killing these 59 whales? What their diet slightly differed from the ones you killed last year, because of different conditions of the oceans, slightly less or more availability of one or another food source maybe? Gee glad you had to kill them to find that out! Such GREAT "scientific " research done there, maybe you should put yourself up for a "Noble" prize. But i guess it is just like with tuna being over fished & the rest of the world looking to cut back on but Japan believes it can keep killing all, what about when there are none left? I guess you can look back at your "research" & say ohh well this one died at this age, maybe before it could reproduce! & the reproduction of whales takes a lot longer than humans David, just as fish stocks being over fished, it is going to take decades for them to make sustainable comebacks, that is if they are even given that chance too!

The counters you refer to on these whaling boats are also crew on these boats & sourced by Japan, not independent arbitrators! This can be seen in the video released from these vessels, ALL are Japanese!
davidattokyo at 07:08 PM JST - 29th October

hobbsy70,

So once again davidattokyo you admit what you are doing is ILLEGAL

???

& against the IWC moratorium on commercial whaling

Japan abides by the moratorium. Iceland and Norway aren't bound by it. There is no illegality by any of these nations (let alone me).

the "research" is just a ruse for killing whales for your dinner plates,

It's not a ruse, it's the only type of whaling that is permitted by the Japanese government right now in accordance with international rules Japan has decided to adhere to.

yet you do it in sanctuaries

Special permit whaling is exempt from "sanctuaries" and "moratoriums". This is written in the IWC's convention, Article VIII.

So which is it? "commercial" or "research"?

Currently it's research, because that's all that is allowed under the rules Japan adheres to.

if it is subsidized by the government just to make it not "commercial"

They are doing research so its not commercial, but it would be a bad look if research projects were turning profits.

if it is all so above board why do the Japanese buy off small broke countries to vote with them in the IWC

That's why countries receiving ODA from Japan have recently not been voting with Japan at the IWC?

The levels of mercury found in dolphin & whale meat is toxic by your health standards

The NIMD suggests the meat be eaten in appropriately moderate quantities. It's not toxic.

how do Patagonian Toothfishermen from Sth America end up prosocuted for fishing in these waters?

What law are they prosecuted under?

according to you Japan can hunt anywhere it likes?

All nations can catch marine resources where they like in accordance with international agreements.

Just like by saying eating mercury laced whale meat is going to help people with Minimata desease, so treat mercury poisoning with more mercury???

NIMD notes that baleen whale (specifically Bryde's whale) has low levels of contaminants and is safe to eat. Cetacean consumers can switch to it from dolphins etc to fulfil their needs.

So if there were 400,000 Japanese left in the world, would you consider it sustainable for us to keep killing them

Japanese people are humans, and humans have human rights. So it's kind of a stupid situation to suggest.

what about destroying & over fishing of the oceans & in turn destroying ecosystems

Sustainable exploitation requires that the exploitation be sufficiently conservative that when accidents do happen they do not have catastrophic and unintended effects and consequences.

Indeed some have noted that if the regime for the sustainable exploitation of whales was applied to other fisheries, the vast majority would have to be shut down straight away. The whaling regime is that tough. For example, no whale stock with a 95% chance of being less than 54% of it's un-exploited natural level of abundance can be harvested under IWC rules.

Whereas with various fisheries the managers actually target depleting fish stock abundance to levels below 50% in order to obtain maximum sustainable yield.

If you are worried about ecosystems then you should be very much in favour of sustainable whaling being implemented, as it would serve a fine example to other international fisheries.

The results were different from last year?

Yes, as I noted the details can be found in the reports, if you are actually interested in the research.

the reproduction of whales takes a lot longer than humans David

That's a gross generalization at best.

The counters you refer to on these whaling boats are also crew on these boats & sourced by Japan, not independent arbitrators!

Not true. The people counting the whales include New Zealanders, Americans etc.

This can be seen in the video released from these vessels, ALL are Japanese!

Don't confuse the "crew" of the boats with the researchers who do the actual counting
hobbsy70 at 03:10 AM JST - 1st November

So David, yet you still refuse to answer a simple question & continue to contrdict yourself between these responses & others you have forwarded, you say your hunts are not commercial, yet when questioned on them you say your government could turn a profit from, but would be embaressed to do so, because these hunts are NOT scientific, they are about putting whale meat on your dinner plate, yet you carry them out in a "sanctuary" under the guise of "research", so by that you are breaking the law, conducting ILLEGAL hunts in a designated whale sanctuary. & once again the information you provide with this "research" can be obtained through non lethal methods,(collections of skin samples & DNA testing), but then you would have no whale meat for your dinner table, would you? Yes you have lost some countries you bribed & paid of to vote for you in the IWC because their corrupt governments were voted out, so now you have recruited more, Kiribati, Laos, to name but 2. But when their people find out the conditions that come along with your money I am sure you will have to go & find more, since a vast majority of your Caribbean block has deserted you! You talk about American whale hunts, like they run a commercial oppertion the same as you, but the only whales killed there are to the Inuit's, & done in traditional manner, eg, rafts, & hand thrown harpoons, & the numbers are less than a 100 per annum, not commercial in boats that can outrun the whales, & firing explosive harpoons, therefor the whales have as much chance of kiling the hunter as they do of it, so why do not Japanese whale hunters use these "traditional" methods anymore if it is all about "tradition" Once again I asked you what are these "new" earth breaking discoveries you made by killing these 59 whales, & once again you avoided answering & tried to turn it back on me, so once again, PLEASE explain to us all what these great new discoveries were? As for gross generalization at best on whale & human reproduction, whales gestate for 11 months, or in some breeds longer, humans gestate 9 months, not a gross generalization, scientific fact, also whales then do not breed for another year - 2 years as the calf is still with the mother, which per chance you kill in the "sanctuaries" during your "scientific" slaughter, as well as pregnant whales, so kill not only the 1 whale but also the calf, multiple kills with the 1 explosive harpoon, yet you do not include this in your "scientific" research, why not? I have seen footage, & passenger manifests off your boats, sorry NO Americans or New Zealanders on them, so who exactly are these "phantom" researchers, & please give proof this time, not a gross generalization! It is great to know you are all for human rights, what about acting humanely, & respecting animal rights, or are all animals, endangered or not just here for your consumption? & as for Minimata desease I was just reading an article from Taiji, where many are suffering from high levels of mercury, yet your government & NIMD refuse to then test these people for Minimata desease, what is your government trying to cover up? The fact you have another outbreak of the desease on your hands, or are you going to wait like the original one & deny all until it is proven outside Japan before you accept the truth? & as for fishing in another countries economic exclusion zone, you know that is ILLEGAL, just as commercial whaling in a designated "sanctuary" is, just as anyone fishing in Japan's economic exclusion zone, & you government enforces that, otherwise the Chinese or Koreans could fish freely in your waters, which your government definately does not allow! So this time how about answering questions directly rather than trying to bluff them off
hobbsy70 at 05:35 AM JST - 1st November

Then lets talk about numbers, & breeding rates, commercial whaling of Humpbacks,(what Japanese tourist come to Australia to see), reached a low point of 100 whales a century ago, at which time whaling stopped,(unlike Japan when it wiped out all its local stocks), now 1 century later we have official numbers,(not from Japanese whaling boats), at 10,000, so over 100 years it has grown 1 a year, yet Japan wants to slaughter 50 humpbacks a year,(under scientific purposes), but the population has only grown on average 1-5 a year, so please explain David how this is within the population growth, & can be sustained, when ALL scientific reports say otherwise, ohhhh yes that's right, it's not about "science", it's about putting whales on your dinner plate! When are you going to admit this publicly, as you have said it a few times now through your other comments, eg whaling is sustainable as an industry, the government is only subsidizing it to prevent it making money & embaressing Japan internationally, admit who you are David, & your motives behind this fight, the rest of us have! SO who are you David, & what is your vested interest in this debate? As you are not an average citizen walking down the street to go to work, your work involves the industry of whaling, & trying to convince the average consumer it is ok, & while we are on the average consumer, why do you not tell them when they are purchasing dolphin meat? Why do you hide it as "whale meat", & charge the same for it? Another commercial ploy to back up your ILLEGAL hunts in the Southern Whale Sanctuary, so you can say our industry is sustainable, what about the villages that used to have dolphins, but has since hunted the populations into extinction? Ohh yes that is right, you are not willing to admit this, along with any proof of what you are doing is not sustainable. Just as when i questioned you on your millions claim, by your own admission there are not millions, 400,000, & maybe a million worldwide, not millions,(multiple of million), as you had stated. But then bribe another few 3rd world countries to support you in the IWC & you will think you have the whole world fooled right? Well keep it up, for your whaling policy is causing Japan as much damage & embaressment as America's foreign policy under Bush did, & the world is watching, & do not believing your story for a second. Just as in Taiji right now, do you think because no media is there the story & reports are not getting out? I as others have footage of your latest inhumane slaughters in Taiji, & you cannot stop it being released to the world, or hide what you are doing there, THE WORLD IS WATCHING, David, I hope Japan, & Japanese people are willing to live with this shame & dishonor from the rest of the world????? Just as in Iran during the last elections & civil disturbance afterwards, the footage is getting out, & will be made public, much to the discrace & dishonor of the Japanese people...(To whom you will have to answer)
hobbsy70 at 12:31 AM JST - 4th November

So where is your point by point explaination now David? Or because the article is no longer posted maybe you feel you do not have to explain any longer? & you can an run and hide behind your "commercial" whaling? Time to confess up, & provide us with some facts we are long waiting for, eg "great" new "scientific" finds in the last hunt of 59 whales of Japans coasts finds us.Thats right there is none, so you have no argument, so why answer the post or question, because David I have been posting it & all your comment all over the internet! So we are all waiting your reply, as to why this whaling or any other is "sustainable" or "acceptable" in your words? PLEASE EXPLAIN??????