Japanese airlines say they will obey China's air zone rules

TOKYO —

Japanese airlines on Tuesday said they would follow rules set by China when it declared an air control zone over the East China Sea, even as Tokyo said they should ignore them.

All Nippon Airways (ANA) said that since Sunday it has been submitting flight plans to Chinese authorities for any plane that was due to pass through the area. Its affiliate Peach Aviation said it was doing the same “for now”.

The announcements came after former flag carrier Japan Airlines said it was complying with demands Beijing set out on Saturday when it said it had established an Air Defense Identification Zone (ADIZ) where all aircraft were required to obey its orders.

The zone covers the Tokyo-controlled Senkaku islands, which Beijing claims as the Diaoyus, where ships and aircraft from the two countries already shadow each other in a dangerous game of cat and mouse.

“We have taken the measures in line with international regulations,” an ANA spokesman said. “Safety is our top priority. We have to avoid any possibility of the worst-case scenario.”

Peach Aviation said it had taken similar steps. “We will continue submitting our flight plans to the Chinese side for now,” a spokesman said.

Transport Minister Akihiro Ota insisted that the Chinese declaration was “not valid at all” and called on Japanese airlines to ignore it.

On Monday, Tokyo called in Beijing’s ambassador to demand a roll-back of the plan which it said would “interfere with freedom of flight over the high seas”, but was rebuffed by Cheng Yonghua, who said Tokyo should retract its “unreasonable demand”.

Under the rules, aircraft are expected to provide their flight plan, clearly mark their nationality, and maintain two-way radio communication allowing them to “respond in a timely and accurate manner” to identification inquiries from Chinese authorities.

The area also includes waters claimed by Taiwan and South Korea, which have also both registered their displeasure at the move.

(c) 2013 AFP

  • 4

    Virtuoso

    Japanese airlines should stop flying to China, period.

  • 7

    CH3CHO

    At the same time, Chinese air lines keep obeying the overlapping Japanese ADIZ.

  • 1

    Saketown

    And what happens if China decides to ignore Japan Airlines transponder signal?

    That's the question going forward...

  • -5

    gaijinfo

    Well, I guess that settles that.

    China - 1

    Japan - 0

  • 8

    gaijin6000

    Airlines gotta think about their profits. They don't care if China is in the wrong.

  • 25

    slumdog

    Well, I guess that settles that.

    I wasn't aware the Japanese airlines had formally taken the place of the Japanese government. The airlines are just doing what is safe for their passengers. It is common sense to avoid a potential conflict zone.

  • -6

    smithinjapan

    Abe and co. must be fuming and shaking their little fists. Time for some lawmakers to continue not doing their jobs and get on a private flight and disobey the new Chinese rules.

  • 9

    slumdog

    It's only because of flights to China that ANA didn't follow the same bankrupt path as JAL.

    Actually, ANA's superior service had something to do with it, too.

  • -5

    smithinjapan

    Virtuoso: "Japanese airlines should stop flying to China, period."

    And go bankrupt after losing half their revenue? Please! This whole island issue started by Ishihara aside, the two nations would never dare stop trading, and that includes flying back and forth.

  • 3

    slumdog

    This whole island issue started by Ishihara aside

    As much as I cannot stand Ishihara, and that is a whole lot, this has very little to do with him. The islands have been administrated and used by the Japanese government since they were returned to them by the US in 1972.

  • 0

    Kapuna

    smithinjapan; right you are. Politicians that believe the order can be ignored can charter a plane and test that theory.

  • 6

    Disillusioned

    They don't really have a choice, do they? Those rat bags in China are likely to shoot down a passenger plane just to prove a point.

  • 5

    slumdog

    You don't know what you're talking about.

    Actually, I know exactly what I was talking about. I was talking about the comparison made between ANA and JAL. I think ANA is superior. You, on the other hand, seem to have no idea what I was commenting about. Perhaps you should make sure of the content of the conversation before assuming others do not know what they are talkinga about.

    Your attitude of, China needs us, we don't need China

    Speaking of not knowing what you are talking about. The above does not even resemble my attitude in the slightest. You really should read more carefully before commenting on the posts of others.

    ANA would very quickly follw the path opf ANA.

    You might even want to read your own posts more carefully before posting.

  • -4

    smithinjapan

    slumdog: "As much as I cannot stand Ishihara, and that is a whole lot, this has very little to do with him. The islands have been administrated and used by the Japanese government since they were returned to them by the US in 1972."

    Even if that's truly the case, which Dog makes some good points on, you cannot deny the fact that current tensions began with Ishihara last year in April. Before that, while the island issue still existed, there was none of the current tensions that continue to escalate.

    So now you have Japanese airlines bowing down to Chinese rule. This is really going to ruffle the feathers of politicians here.

  • 3

    cornbread1

    gaijininfo: on whose scorecard?

    It seems to me that the focus of the Japanese airline companies is not their egos, but on the safety and well-being of their passengers. Having said that, in my scorecard, they (the J-airline companies) are more mature and matter of fact about this than how China is coming across--like children.

  • -1

    Athletes

    Japanese airlines should stop flying to China, period.

    Japanese airlines have to say Sayonaya to 1.3 billion consumers. It will be the boom time for Korean aviation industry. Because Seoul is the nearest transit terminal for destination of Japan for PRC tourists. Korean air hostesses are very friendly and polite too.

    At the moment, PRC tourists prefer to fly with Japanese airline for shopping in Japan. However no tourist will risk their life for shooting down by their own government.

    In my opinion, Korean air and Asiana airlines are safer for PRC tourists who have to travel to Japan. It may take longer for traveling through Seoul to Tokyo or Osaka. However safety is the priority ahead of time.

  • -4

    Tiger_In_The_Hermitage

    Commercial companies should stick to the rules and laws of other nations and stay out of politics. Companies need to make money not to create noise and political distractions.

  • 4

    sheetu

    It's no strange, S.Korea and Taiwan airlines have also submitted their flight plans to Chinese authorities.

  • 3

    pointofview

    They have no choice unfortunately.

  • 0

    lucabrasi

    Those rat bags in China are likely to shoot down a passenger plane just to prove a point.

    I don't think they would, as it would send out the wrong signals to China's rivals.

    If, say, a British Airlines flight entered Japanese air space by mistake, the Japanese wouldn't shoot it down, as they are confident that the airspace belongs to them and recognise no dispute with the UK over their territory. The Chinese seem to want to project the same air of total confidence in the integrity of "their" airspace.Shooting down a passenger plane would send out the message to the world that the Chinese government are paranoid lunatics, which (while it may be true) isn't what they want to do.

    And also, while they be a repressive, undemocratic, unsavoury regime, they're human beings like the rest of us. Ordering the deaths of hundreds of innocent fellow humans in full view of the rest of the world requires a streak of genuinely psychopathic evil, which doesn't seem to be there.

  • 1

    SuperLib

    Business is business. Things will get interesting when fighters get scrambled.

  • 0

    budgie

    Nobody wants to fly with threatening fighter escorts. Even if China is wrong it makes business sense for the airlines to play along. The alternative - in diversions, delays and spooked passengers - is bad for business.

  • -6

    Green Key

    Why would the U.S. defend Japan against a country that they conduct military drills with?

    "Chinese Troops Drill in Hawaii as Military Ties Deepen With U.S." http://www.businessweek.com/news/2013-11-11/chinese-troops-drill-in-hawaii-as-military-ties-deepen-with-u-dot-s

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kzoiUlnFDFc

  • 9

    CH3CHO

    DogNov. 26, 2013 - 02:49PM JST

    Japan is incidental to China, China has the choice of many options. China is vital to Japan because Japan has no other options.

    I am not sure if you see the reality. These days, the most popular business seminars on China in Japan are "How to divest from China". Japanese business leaders think the money they earn in China may not be brought out of China safely.

    The labor cost in China is rapidly increasing. Japanese business leaders see no advantage in manufacturing in China. They are much better off opening factories in Thailand, Vietnam or Bangladesh where labor cost is still cheap. Chinese business will soon see decreasing sales due to its cost disadvantage against SE Asian countries. I am not sure if China can survive economically in the coming decade. If they cannot find ways to survive, they will go back to state of starvation and "market of one billion people" will disappear.

  • -5

    darknuts

    This is an unfortunate move that only adds legitimacy to Chinas claim. Most passenger planes going in and out of China are carrying Chinese passengers. I highly doubt China would shoot down a passenger plane killing it's own people while at the same time committing an act of war that would certainly give Japan the world's sympathy and support so go on China, make our day.

  • 2

    steveinebisu

    Japan will lose those islands if they do not assert them

    Abe has two choices: Choice 1)Continue to 'protest' and do nothing Result: the slow motion invasion will continue and China will eventually take the islands from Japan sometime in the next year or two, put men on them and start building 'research' bases.

    Choice 2)Assert them now as follows (this should have happened the day the first ship arrived, but better late than never..) China just announced an 'air defense identification zone' that outlines other aircraft must identify to the Chinese or face military consequences..

    That is an act of war right there. Abe needs to assert it as such right now, and demand its withdrawl within 24 hours.

    In the meantime, this is also the excuse he needs to airdrop garrisons of men and equipment on those islands right now along with the above announcement. They are under Japanese administration and this is an acceptable reaction to the Chinese Air Defence declaration, which is an act of war over Japanese territories.

    Once the Japanese soldiers drop on the island, they need to install SAMs, start building airstrips and a port and get aircraft and ships there now ASAP to defend them.

    Will it piss off China? Yep!

    Will they start trade action against Japan? You bet!

    But unless Abe follows option (1) above right to the end, it is going to happen anyways eventually as China continues their slow motion march to take the islands. Better now than later when China is more strong..

    Will it start a war? Maybe? But again better to fight the Chinese now rather than later when they will be too strong to defeat as they continue to dismember Japan piece by piece.

    Right now, the Japanese Navy is stronger, the Chinese know this and likely won't risk a fight (and if they do, they will lose). This may not be true next year, or the year after..

    There are no other alternatives really..appeasement does not work in the long run..

  • -5

    StormR

    Its a matter of common sense and safety, not a matter of bowing to china's demand. If a Japanese airline ignored the notification and china shot it down can you imagine the dreadful position the airline would be in.

    I think the US should test out this notification by flying fighters there constantly lets see what the paper tiger does then.

    China needs japan for technology, be it bullet trains, electronics, hybrid technology or other such know how, without it china's people would still be living in mud huts with a fire in the floor and using a horse and cart, ohh wait a minute many of them still are. Anyway point is china needs japan tech so who needs who the most.

  • -2

    nigelboy

    Civlian passenger aircraft has everything to lose so they have no choice to comply. This is a no brainer. We're talking millions of millions of their investments. We're talking about lives of hundreds of passengers.

    As for military, we heard the U.S. reaction. Status quo for they're not responding to this crap. Same goes for JSDF. Status quo here. China has very little experience in scrambling while Japan has worlds of experience thanks to the Soviets and current Russia.

  • -1

    Kurobune

    I would certainly think so.

  • 0

    Saxon Salute

    Why would the Japanese stop flights to China? Nearly all of Japan's tourism is from China. Civilian airlines need to comply because if they don't no one will board their planes. Japanese military doesn't need to comply, nor does US military (the old chant: "come and have a go if you think you're hard enough" springs to mind) but civilian airlines cannot risk being show down just to prove a point.

  • 0

    sasapesso

    China should get over with its grudge against Japan, any state action motivated by nationalistic fervor is bound to create new problems. Senkoku may belong to either Japan or China, but irrespective of that, area China deems belong to it is not demarcated according to international agreements and laws, it is biased both against Japan and South Korea. Japanese airlines is just a corporation follows economic interest, there is nothing wrong with their decision, I am sure they also feel against China"s self-righteous blabber.

  • 3

    Thunderbird2

    @steveinebisu

    Will it start a war? Maybe? But again better to fight the Chinese now rather than later when they will be too strong to defeat as they continue to dismember Japan piece by piece.

    Right now, the Japanese Navy is stronger, the Chinese know this and likely won't risk a fight (and if they do, they will lose). This may not be true next year, or the year after..

    There are no other alternatives really..appeasement does not work in the long run..

    You can't be serious... Japan would be destroyed. Yes Japan probably has the superior technology but in terms of sheer firepower China could decimate them. I also don't think those nutters in Beijing would balk at using nukes either.
    I would rather the UN took control of the islands and made them a protectorate, administered by a neutral country.

  • -2

    smithinjapan

    StormR: "Its a matter of common sense and safety, not a matter of bowing to china's demand."

    Either way it's (notice apostrophe) bowing down to China. Japan brought this on. Now they cannot handle China's reaction. The US will do nothing.

  • -1

    LFRAgain

    This is asinine and it's bullying at an international level. How is what China’s doing any different from North Korea threatening nuclear hellfire on anyone that looks at it the wrong way?

    By acquiescing to what amounts to an implied threat of violence from China, JAL and ANA have all affirmed the maxim, "Might Makes Right." As long as the profits roll in, we don’t care if this is wrong in every way imaginable.

    Japan, South Korea, Taiwan, and all of the Southeast Asian nations that are affected by this unilateral declaration need to man up, find their collective cojones, and tell China, "No."

  • 0

    nigelboy

    You can't be serious... Japan would be destroyed. Yes Japan probably has the superior technology but in terms of sheer firepower China could decimate them. I also don't think those nutters in Beijing would balk at using nukes either

    He's correct. The combined Naval power of U.S. and Japan could starve China by blocking their life line which is the Sea Lane. Subsequently, the 2+ million PLA forces will be too busy stopping the mass riots everywhere throughout the country. The enemy will no longer be U.S. or Japan. Their enemy would be that of their own citizens.

  • 1

    CrisGerSan

    such a move is common sense. It is important to seperate what a nation does and what busiinsesses do, they are not the same thing. I coomend the airlines for seeing to safety but expect Japan to continue to be strong and not move an inch in other ways.

  • -1

    StormR

    Steveinebisu nice post and I agree japan needs to move on choice 2 and move fast,

    The US says they will back japan so lets test it all out and go for it, if china attacks then its all on for young and old.

    The Chinese supporters on here do not have any reason and will just continue there anti japan rhetoric it makes no difference.

  • 5

    Upgrayedd

    gaijinfoNov. 26, 2013 - 02:23PM JST Well, I guess that settles that. China - 1 Japan - 0

    Nah it's basically

    China - 0.5 Japan - 2

    The only thing China gets out of this whole mess is paper from Japanese airlines faxing their flight plans.

    Japan in turn gets world recognition of Chinese aggressiveness and hostility and a United States that no longer has any diplomatic qualms about using the Japanese name for the islands in official statements.

  • -5

    oldman_13

    Gutless Japanese!

  • -4

    sveinnyves

    If the communist party goes to war with japan, will the whole country will go to war? do you think the uighur, tibetians, inner mongolians etc will sacrifice themselves for the repressive regime? when all strength is brought to the frontline, its the best opportunity for internal rebellion to rise up and down with the communist party.

    For now, the current situation of airlines acknowledging air zone demand is what the communist party wanted. The communist party greed is too clear to stay neutral or take its side on land and sea matter.

  • -1

    Ahmed Abubakari

    the more the world becomes globalized and technological advance the more the silent springs and deepened trust deficit. The end time is near

  • 2

    YongYang

    “Safety is our top priority. We have to avoid any possibility of the worst-case scenario.”

    Well, flights to Okinawa will be affected too. Japan needs to think of what to do because no-one can be ditacted to by the stick. No one.

  • 3

    Thunderbird2

    @StormR - you too?

    Why are there people on here advocating provoking China into doing something everyone will regret? Ooh let's poke this ant's nest to see what happens... over some poxy unoccupied little islands?

    I am 100% behind Japan in this, but going to war? They aren't worth it.

  • 0

    nigelboy

    I am not sure if you see the reality. These days, the most popular business seminars on China in Japan are "How to divest from China". Japanese business leaders think the money they earn in China may not be brought out of China safely.

    Like this one.

    http://www.tjcc.cn/jp/PolicyView.asp?id=238&SortID=10

    And the boom.

    http://sankei.jp.msn.com/economy/news/130820/biz13082022560031-n1.htm

    Keidanren use to always show their displeasure towards Koizumi when he visited Yasukuni stating that it hurts their businesses. Now, not even a whisper towards Abe.

  • 1

    lucabrasi

    @Thunderbird

    "... Going to war? They aren't worth it."

    Wisest words on the thread so far. ; )

  • -2

    CH3CHO

    Thunderbird2Nov. 26, 2013 - 07:49PM JST

    Why are there people on here advocating provoking China into doing something everyone will regret?

    China may be an uncontrollable monster, unless we do something now.

    This is a battle to keep the rule of international law. We cannot allow China to ignore international laws any more.

  • -3

    recherche88

    I've read here that this all started with Ishihara a year ago... but have been reading stories of incursions by Chinese ships, planes, and the occasional submarine for years. Just did a quick Google search and the first story was about a Chinese fishing captain appearing to deliberately ram his boat into two Japanese Coast Guard vessels near the islands back in September 2010 and that was by no means the beginning of these Chinese provocations.

  • 0

    Kazuaki Shimazaki

    Well, it is a point for China, no doubt. But then, it is a point that was virtually guaranteed.

    Now, as for whether it becomes a net minus, it depends on if China is smart. They are playing their usual game of piling on their gains(at other people's expense) just slowly enough the other side keeps thinking "medium-term" and coming back to forgive them. If they keep playing it right, their reputation would keep falling but they'll keep their gains. Otherwise, they will incite a war, (at this time) probably lose it and be forced into signing another "Unequal Treaty."

  • 0

    DaveAllTogether

    Whether or not China is in the right (I don't think so) the airlines have no choice in the matter. The routes to some of the destinations that I fly to (Hong Kong for example) go through the new ADIZ. Granted we could fly around it but that adds time and at about 14,00lbs of fuel burned an hour that adds cost. Added cost equals fewer customers equals less profit.

  • -1

    Saketown

    I hope China is happy now that they've put ALL Air Carriers in a PANIC now.

    Oh BTW China, this is just word on the street now: Don't ever expect to get the Olypmics ever again.

  • -2

    DaveAllTogether

    I also don't think those nutters in Beijing would balk at using nukes either.

    Actually they would. Their use of nukes against Japan should mean a comparable retaliatory use by the US. I say should because with the present administration I doubt they have the testicular fortitude to do so.

  • 8

    Thunderbird2

    @CH3CHO

    China may be an uncontrollable monster, unless we do something now.

    This is a battle to keep the rule of international law. We cannot allow China to ignore international laws any more.

    Oh, so you attack them and force the world into WW3 over islands? Yeah, I can see how that'll teach them a lesson. You do NOT punch a bully on the nose unless you can run very fast, have a hammer to knock him cold, or a big brother to back you up... in this case the big brother (America) would probably only make matters worse.

    For pity's sake, this talk of goading China into a war is insane. Do any of you who want this actually have the slightest idea of what would happen? You really think China would slink away with a bleeding nose?

    You are scary people.

  • 5

    Saxon Salute

    Thunderbird2, what you read on here are often just belligerent comments by proud keyboard warriors. Some of the posters are paid, others are blatant nationalists. I also support Japan's continued rule over senkaku, but when you read people advocating war (even nuclear war) over this, you have to shake your head and wonder if these people are for real. Notice how they want someone else to get on civilian planes and fly them into dangerous situations. They aren't thinking of chartering one and being the catalysts for war themselves. Let's hope cooler heads prevail as this little dispute is not worth any lives.

  • -3

    AlexHax

    Looks like China is making progress. They are working on it and they deserve it.

  • -3

    nigelboy

    Oh, so you attack them and force the world into WW3 over islands? Yeah, I can see how that'll teach them a lesson. You do NOT punch a bully on the nose unless you can run very fast, have a hammer to knock him cold, or a big brother to back you up... in this case the big brother (America) would probably only make matters worse.

    WW3??!! No. More like incursions and stare downs by both sides.

    I see the scenario ending up like this after years and years of the above.

    http://www.aljazeera.com/news/asia/2013/10/china-india-reach-border-defence-pact-2013102363258699437.html

  • -3

    Kazuaki Shimazaki

    Oh, so you attack them and force the world into WW3 over islands? Yeah, I can see how that'll teach them a lesson. You do NOT punch a bully on the nose unless you can run very fast, have a hammer to knock him cold, or a big brother to back you up... in this case the big brother (America) would probably only make matters worse.

    Thunderbird2, do you remember that a similar policy of appeasement was considered to be one of the precursors of World War II (for those who think WWII began in 1931 or 1937, certainly the European part of it).

    For pity's sake, this talk of goading China into a war is insane. Do any of you who want this actually have the slightest idea of what would happen? You really think China would slink away with a bleeding nose?

    If the bleeding nose does happen, for another few years. It is kind of like the Sino-Vietnamese War.

    If the free world correctly analyzed the situation, they would have realized 20 or even 40 years ago that the real threats to their dominance are countries with 1 billion people in them, not countries with 300 million and are almost starving their people just to defend against American aircraft carriers and other means of technological prowess. They contained the wrong nation.

    If we want the future world to look like today (and let's face it, today is pretty nice), standing up to China even if it means a war may be the only way.

  • -1

    Elbuda Mexicano

    China has money now, congratulations! But does CHINA have any brains?? Does it have a heart?? Does it have a soul?? I really, really doubt it does now and CHINA should be ashamed of what it is trying to do to the rest of ASIA, but CHINA will soon find out what the rest of the world is really like and CHINA will end up the loser!

  • 0

    Thunderbird2

    @Kazuaki Shimazaki

    Thunderbird2, do you remember that a similar policy of appeasement was considered to be one of the precursors of World War II (for those who think WWII began in 1931 or 1937, certainly the European part of it).

    WW2 was more than 70 years ago. Germany had no nuclear weapons, ICBMs or millions of soldiers ready to trample anything in front of them.

    If we want the future world to look like today (and let's face it, today is pretty nice), standing up to China even if it means a war may be the only way.

    Rubbish. If you are prepared to don a uniform, man a missile battery and stand in the way of Chinese planes and ships then goad ahead, poke them on the nose until they fight back. But you had better be prepared to die, because there is no way they would stop until Japan was crushed beneath their boots. They would use their hatred of the Japanese to incite their population to support whatever they did.

    Yes, America would step in to protect Japan, but how quickly could they get aircraft and ships out there? They would have to rely on cruise missiles and target targets in China. North Korea would get involved, targetting South Korea...

    BOOM!

  • 0

    presto345

    I am 100% behind Japan in this, but going to war? They aren't worth it.

    The rock formations aren't worth it, I agree. Ceding rights to a nation that does not own them and is creating an international conflict makes me uncomfortable.

  • -1

    Asian2013

    It is best for Japan to conduct a survey in SE Asia and ask all the leading businessmen and enterprises that are in Chinese hands. Do they support China or do they support Japan? In SEAsia, I mean Singapore, Malaysia, Brunei, Indonesia, Laos, Cambodia, Papua New Guinea, Myanmar, even Vietnam and the Philippines! Read the ground and see how the people are discussing this issue. Some different SEAsian nationals that I have spoken to, have expressed support for China's move! I used to be an American company regional Vice President for SE Asia and greater China. So I have some feel in this area! Many of us have parents or grandparents who were tragic victims of imperial Japan!

  • 1

    techall

    Those rat bags in China are likely to shoot down a passenger plane just to prove a point.

    Forced down is a more likely scenario. Force a commercial plane to land at some god-forsaken Chinese air force base, hold the pilot and crew for violation of the Chinese self proclaimed ADIZ and all the passengers stuck in limbo while the two nations negotiate their release (quasi-hostages). Meanwhile the airline takes major hit in PR gut.

  • -3

    Frungy

    Forcing down a commercial plane is a highly unlikely scenario. There's no telling who is abroad, who their family connections are, what their nationalities are, etc. China isn't that stupid, it wouldn't risk irritating dozens of countries simultaneously. Their strategy has always been "divide and conquer". Right now they're irritating Japan, before that it was the Philippines. If they irritated the Philippines, Thailand, South Korea, India and Japan all at the same time there's a good chance they'd all decide that China needed to be shown its place and they'd form a strategic trade alliance and embargo China for a decade.

  • -2

    OssanAmerica

    Considering the degree of complaints from surrounding countries, what China certainly can not afford is an accidental shoot down of any commercial airliner of any nationality. The real risk is incidents whether accidental or intentional in military recon and training flights since the US, Japan and South Korea will not be recognizing the Chinese ADIZ requirements.

    AthletesNov. 26, 2013 - 03:18PM JST "Japanese airlines should stop flying to China, period. Japanese airlines have to say Sayonaya to 1.3 billion consumers

    The notion that all 1.3 billion Chinese fly or can afford to is laughable. I'll bet the "flying Chinese" are always pretty much the same well to doers.

  • -1

    techall

    Frungy: doesn't matter who is on the plane, the Chinese will blame the air line for not abiding by the ADIZ. They WANT an international incident..

  • 1

    Thunderbird2

    Frungy: doesn't matter who is on the plane, the Chinese will blame the air line for not abiding by the ADIZ. They WANT an international incident..

    So do some JT posters!

  • -1

    Michael Erickson

    If Japan sits idly-by and allows China to dictate Airspace through which they will grant Japan permission to fly through...or NOT...then the next step is that China will begin to dictate which ships can sail through their newly colonized waters/seas. Pretty soon, Japan will be nothing more than a suburb of Beijing. Japan must NOT allow China to annex all of the airspace over these islands and the whole sea...that would be the same as when Japan did it to Korea, China, Russia, etc. 68-years ago.

  • -1

    StormR

    Thunderbird2

    @StormR - you too?

    Why are there people on here advocating provoking China into doing something everyone will regret? Ooh let's poke this ant's nest to see what happens... over some poxy unoccupied little islands?

    I am 100% behind Japan in this, but going to war? They aren't worth it.

    Thunderbird2 so you'd let a bully push you around and take your lunch coz a few sandwiches isn't worth it, so when does it become worth it once the bully has taken your wallet or ?

    Time to stand up is when the bully first starts to stand over you, not after 2 or 3 years.

    China needs to be put in order coz it is way out of line, and quite honestly japan the US and other asian nations do not need china when it starts taken others property. Some other nations can make stuff cheaper and without other countries selling their technology, minerals and resources to the commies then they will have nothing to produce, lots of other developing nations for the US japan and others to sell their good s to and its not all in china who can afford the goods anyway.

    Without the west china will be a closed up factory fighting internal wars with its own people.

    The region is over due for a major re alignment and this could just be whats required.

  • 0

    techall

    Thunderbird2: I'm not sure if you are asking if I would like to see an international incident but I assure you I most certainly would not. That said, why do some posters here think the PRC went to all the trouble of declaring an ADIZ if they were just going to back down and show weakness at the first challenge? Just doesn't make sense. They want something.

  • -1

    EthanWilber

    @smithinjapan "The US will do nothing."

    Are you kidding us here ? :)

    The fact of matter is that the US has done many things already and will do many things necessary to keep Japan and China to cool down for not getting into a war that surely puts detrimental effects to the world's peace and economy.

    The hosts of issues involved between Japan and China are complex and complicated in many layers. To solve those thorny problems will take time as well as wisdom. The US has tried diligently for preventing things to get out control so far, but the US is also subject to certain constraints. For a starter, the US must protect its own notational interests, first and foremost, that may include: pushing China too much could backfire, enticing China to make concessions to the Russian and as a result to form some sort of alliance in the world stage.( China and Russia already stood together during recent Iranian nuclear deal for not going tough on the clauses). Please don't forget they are ex-communist countries and, they have the similar ideology. Further, the US needs China to stand by its side to deal with nuclear Iran and NK because China has the veto right in UN if the tough sanctions are sought.

    Granted, the US does not like Chinese aggressive behaviors, but the US can’t afford to be short-sight, either,

    And you are spot on Japan - it's not squeaky clean or innocent as many people may think.

  • 0

    Thunderbird2

    @StormR

    Are you really saying that Japan should 'man up' and confront China with military force? Do you really want to see the JMSDF and the Chinese navy firing on each other? Men and women dying for islands? No, the UN needs to take control and turn down the heat.

  • 0

    Jonathan Harston

    I thought Air Traffic Control zones were based on distance to control tower, not surface-level territoriality. London South East's ATCZ extends over part of the French coast.

  • -3

    J.basher

    Just look at the map and make your own judgement, the area of Japan ADIZ and China, from BBC new worlds.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-25087793

  • -3

    iWorld

    J.basher: "Just look at the map and make your own judgement, the area of Japan ADIZ and China, from BBC new >worlds. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-25087793"

    How come you don't get it, J.Basher? Japan have the right to have an ADIZ, China doesn't. It is that simple. Geez.

  • -2

    J.basher

    How come you don't get it, J.Basher? Japan have the right to have an ADIZ, China doesn't. It is that simple. Geez.

    That is your opinion, i have mine.... :)

  • 2

    sappquest

    The BBC is reporting that the US has flown 2 B2 bombers in that area in defiance of the Chinese...

  • -1

    Fadamor

    Every country has the right to establish an ADIZ and as long as they notify everyone else about it, there's normally no problem. In this case, however, China has included airspace over land claimed by another country and that IS a problem. Sticking with the article's subject, Japanese airlines should have no issues entering the Chinese ADIZ as long as they've registered the flights ahead of time. This is a pretty standard thing. The U.S. ADIZ extends 200 miles from the U.S.'s coastline, yet international flights use that airspace 24/7 without hardly an issue.

  • -1

    overchan

    If japanese airlines didnt do it they could easly be blocked by china. Or shoot down those communists are crazy

  • -1

    gelendestrasse

    It's no surprise that the airlines aren't going to get involved in the fight, they don't want an incident with a plane load of civilians ala KAL007. But I'm sure the JSDF is going to send planes in without bothering to tell the Chinese, etc. etc.

  • -3

    KariHaruka

    We should send our planes in and have all the crew and passengers stick their middle fingers up at the Chinese..

  • -2

    Kazuaki Shimazaki

    @Thunderbird

    WW2 was more than 70 years ago. Germany had no nuclear weapons, ICBMs or millions of soldiers ready to trample anything in front of them.

    Does not mean the principle does not apply. At least being separated by an ocean means the "millions of soldiers" are limited by the logistics of overseas transport.

    You are right that the West (including Japan, South Korea and even some in the South China Sea), blinded by short and medium term interests, has let China grow too big for their own good. And I can see that you are concerned about a war.

    However, unless you have great faith China actually has at least somewhat tolerable "last demands", the only choice is to accept Chinese subjugation whenever they feel like it or stand up to them. These past few years, they've already begun making preliminary noises about Okinawa. Now it is all right-wing newspapers, but the idea has been planted. Give it time and it'll migrate to the center and they'll start claiming it for real.

    Yes, fighting them would be messy now, but do you prefer fighting them when they are strong and bold enough to demand Okinawa or even Kyushu?

  • -2

    toshiko

    The result is that China will lose tourists from Japan. Japanese airlines will shift to other areas avoiding the area. So, no loss. Maybe go to So. America and USA? Maybe to Russia?

  • -1

    J.basher

    It's no surprise that the airlines aren't going to get involved in the fight, they don't want an incident with a plane load of civilians ala KAL007. But I'm sure the JSDF is going to send planes in without bothering to tell the Chinese, etc. etc.

    It will be no different like Iran passenger airline 655 in 1988 strait of Hormuz, US navy.

Login to leave a comment

OR

More in National

View all

View all