Japanese return to Canada's WWII internment camps
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3
smithinjapan
A blight on Canadian history. I hope some of these poor people have found peace, and it would be nice if the government apologized once again and offered further compensation.
-6
Ivan Coughanoffalot
Because, as we know, when it comes to WWII, the Japanese were only victims. Nothing bad ever happened to non-Japanese POWs in Japanese camps in Burma, or the Philippines, or Singapore, or...
Christ, the ability of these people to whitewash their history is incredible. They're worse than Scousers for wallowing in unjustified self-pity.
Moderator
Please stop using the discussion board to post anti-Japan rants. It reflects badly on yourself.
12
PeaceWarrior
Ivan, they were Canadians...
10
Kreza23
Ivan Coughanoffalot - Oh come on, give me a break! This is a short article about the POWs in Canada, with interviews of Japanese Canadians who were stuck in an unfortunate situation. If this were a full-blown thesis on WWII internment camps, I would agree that this is a terribly one-sided account, but it's not. It's a short piece on a slow news day.
And you think "these people" are wallowing in unjustified self-pity? You think it's unjustified for "these people" to think that they were unfairly taken from their homes and lost their own businesses? Allow me to remind you that these people who are "wallowing in unjustified self-pity" are Japanese Canadians, and not the people in charge of making history textbooks in Japan, so I don't see why you're pointing out the whitewashing of history. And in all of the quotes you see in the article, there isn't a single one where there is any hint of whining or wallowing in self-pity. You're mixing unrelated issues because of your anti-Japanese bias, and it's quite sad.
On another note, I know a lot of people lost a whole lot by having to go to these camps, but my late grandfather was actually in one of these internment camps, and I remember him telling me that he had a blast playing baseball every day with the Canadian soldiers at the camp. I'm sure it wasn't like that for everybody and it really was ridiculous that these people were considered spies and lost everything they had, but I was relieved to hear from grandpa that they weren't beaten down and treated like animals inside the internment camps.
4
dharmadan
The internment camps were a measured response to a perceived risk, wrongheaded but implemented quite humanely. These weren't death camps.
-4
CrazyJoe
"Nothing bad ever happened to non-Japanese POWs in Japanese camps in Burma, or the Philippines, or Singapore, or..." Those Korean guards that the IJA hired were very brutal I've heard.
-1
oberst
That was before the " civil right " moment, think about what the majority of the population would do to their fellow citizen ( of Japanese heritage ) if they were not " taken into protective custody ".
0
JeffLee
It was a dark chapter in Canada's history. However, Japanese spies had infiltrated Honolulu's Japanese community, and people on the west coast figured they were next in line after Pearl Harbor. So it wasn't a purely an unfounded racist move. Also, hundreds of German-Canadians, who arrived in the 1800s, were interned at Camp Petawawa, Ontario, but we only hear about the Japanese-Canadians, for some reason.
Seizing the property, however, was rotten. I can't see why it couldn't have been returned.
2
gaijinfo
Unfortunate collateral damage. Compared to all the other wars of history, and how suspected enemies were treated, this wasn't so bad.
Not saying it was justified, but there are far more cases of much worse mistreatment in recent memory.
Keep in mind that WWII was a time of huge nationalism, and the whole idea of identifying yourself with your country, as your race, was endemic, as was the whole "us vs. them" mentality.
These poor guys (both in Canada and the U.S.) were just in the wrong place at the wrong time.
0
Samantha Zoe Aso
Wasn't there a movie made about this a few years ago. I didn't get to watch it all but the small parts I saw were quite eye opening and moving. The family lost all their land and possessions. It was just awful.
1
Darren Brannan
They were interned in Australia also.
0
smithinjapan
Samantha Zoe Aso: "Wasn't there a movie made about this a few years ago."
May well have been. There's a good auto-biographical novel about the internment of Japanese-Canadians written by Joy Kagawa called "Obasan" (if I recall correctly), and there was a movie made 14 years ago or so called Snowfall in the Cedars that touches on American internment of (American) Japanese, but I'll have to check out if a recent film was made.
Darren: "They were interned in Australia also."
It's interesting you don't hear much about that. I wonder if the reasons, aside from paranoia, differed due to proximity. Did it occur at the same time, or later when Japan was advancing through SE Asia?
0
Samantha Zoe Aso
SmithinJapan~ Here's me 'a few years ago'. Think it was 'Snowfall in the Cedars' I saw bits of. I must be having way too much fun! Think I'll seek it and rent it again! Thanks for jogging my badly scarred memory!
-9
mimitchy
Never forget! the blatant hypocrisy of the US-Commonwealth Allies during WWII!
2
multitasker
One movie was set in the American islands around Vancouver Island and Seattle, Snow Falling On Cedar. Excellent Anyway, it was sad and shameful what happened in Canada (and other countries.)
"Please stop using the discussion board to post anti-Japan rants. It reflects badly on yourself." Thank you!
0
dharmadan
Did Canada have anything equivalent to the 442?
1
Kreza23
Just to add to my earlier comment, I haven't said anything about Japan being the only victim of the war, nor have I ever condoned any of the atrocities that Japan committed during the war. All I am saying here is that this story is just one of numerous unfortunate results of the war, and I don't see the need to relate it or compare it to others that aren't directly related. There were without a doubt many others who suffered worse, and I would never play down any suffering that others have endured. I just don't think this article has anything to do with history lessons in Japanese classrooms.
0
Cricky
There is an Australian/Japanese co-production about the internment camp at Cowra, and subsequent attempted breakout. Conditions were quite good, but it was a POW camp. Thank God we are past this mentality (I hope).
Great film many Japanese actors, moving. Would hate have it happen to me, I love my family.
2
Virtuoso
JeffLee@that is absolutely not true. As has been well documented, the agent who collected most of the military intelligence on Pearl Harbor was assigned to the Japanese consulate on Nuuanu Avenue and entered the US on a diplomatic passport. (He was a former naval officer but forced to leave the service due to his contracting TB.) No case of disloyalty by Japanese-American civilians in Hawaii was never proved, and unlike the west coast the ones with US citizenship in Hawaii were not detained. They served honorably in the US military as well.
1
Virtuoso
Addendum to the above: Try googling "Takeo Yoshikawa"
4
John Becker
Ivan, the article is about the Canadian internment of Canadian citizens of Japanese descent. It's not about a prisoner of war camp. It's not about the people who were fighting the war. If you have your own agenda concerning Japanese mistreatment of war prisoners, that's fine - in its own discussion. There's not much point of trying to shoehorn it into this discussion.
It's bad enough that these people were imprisoned for the duration, but to have their assets liquidated is inexcusable. They should have been reimbursed 100%.
-3
BlueWitch
@Samantha Zoe Aso
Snow Falling on Cedars. Beautiful film indeed. Ethan Hawke and Youki Kudoh I think.
1
nihoncritic
Historically when we look at tragedies, we need to look at them objectively and in chapters. Internment camps for Japanese Canadians and residents is a blight in Canadian history. The discrimination these people faced, monumental financial, and societal loss these people faced must have been beyond terrible. It is interesting how people like Ivan go on to mention about Japanese atrocities. The clear inability to discern between two different situations and "lump" the entire issues together without looking at the finer lines reveal that his or her opinions and beliefs were no different from officials back then, who clearly could not recognize the difference between local citizens and foreign adversaries.
3
Patrick Hattman
@Blue Witch:
I was lucky enough to do some work with Youki Kudoh about 5 years ago. She's quite an interesting person with her life spent between the U.S. and Japan.
As far as this story goes, it's good to remember a bit more, but when the interned Japanese-Canadians are dying off rapidly from age, it's also about time for us to move on. There are enough problems in the 21st century without constantly dredging up WWII-related issues from 70 years ago.
-3
oberst
Darren: "They were interned in Australia also."
It's interesting you don't hear much about that. I wonder if the reasons, aside from paranoia, differed due to proximity. Did it occur at the same time, or later when Japan was advancing through SE Asia? .................................................
prior to the mid 80's( + or - ), Australia had a " white " policy, I believe there were very few Asian immigrants allowed to settle down ( legally, that is )
2
philly1
The book is Snow Falling on Cedars by David Guterson http://reading-group-center.knopfdoubleday.com/2010/01/07/snow-falling-on-cedars-guide/ which was also made into the movie cited by Blue Witch.
Today's story concerns Canadians of Japanese origin who were removed from their homes and sent to live in internment camps because they were suddenly considered enemy aliens after the bombing of Pearl Harbor. It is its own story. Yes, other stories happened as well; however, this story is a news item with a single focus, not a treatise on the atrocities of war in general. It's inappropriate--as well as grossly flawed logic--to try to dismiss some "lesser" suffering because "greater" evils were perpetrated than this. To tell this one story does not whitewash the others.
In any war (civil or global) there isn't one group that won't perpetrate atrocities on the other and justify doing so with us versus them rhetoric that demonizes the other. Period. The actual atrocities all vary in degree. Did 90 women throw themselves into a well rather than face the mass rape and shame that would have been theirs for life as their side lost the skirmish? Were prisoners tortured daily, fed sub-standard rations, and forced to cut down forests, construct roads, railways, and run smelters? Were human beings turned into lampshades and soap? Did UN (so-called) peace keepers in Central Europe condone and participate in sex-slave trade? Did some people actually stake prisoners to the ground and allow bamboo to grow through them until they died?
These are but a few of the other stories of other atrocities told. Those who want to see them addressed in Japan Today might wish to pitch the editors and cough up a balancing story rather than make comments that can't be taken seriously.
-4
FernandoUchiyama
I don't think Canadian government was wrong in interning the japanese descendant in camps. Before all, the japanese started a stupid war with the US by bombing Pearl Harbor. IIt was like a child going against its father.
By the other side, Canadian government should have reimbursed all the people involved in the case, after the end of the war, a thing that didn't happen.
The positive side of the history is that these camps were not death camps and it seems the japanese were not mistreated there. It's a big lesson for Japan (also Germany), who invaded lots of countries, and instead of assuring citizen rights, they simply killed lots of people and mistreated lots of soldiers.
Had the japanese known the history of Alexander the Greatest before the WWII, maybe the japanese soldiers would have known that the best tactic of conquest is invade countries doing propaganda and sharing knowledge and culture, to make people to like the invaders.
Living and learning.
3
avenger
The Canadian government paid over 20K CAD to each person that were affected as well as set up funds supporting the Japanese community. How come this article does not mention that?
0
globalwatcher
avenger, initially these Japanese Americans refused accept that offer as it was very small compensation compared to what they had lost. Not only their civil rights were violated by the government, their properties including farm land were stolen by the government and never returned. Think about a property value around south of San Francisco, Watsonville today for an example. They lost billions to the government.
If you are interested, you can go to Japan Town in San Jose to learn more about the darkest history in US. Also I am including website you may be interested in reading.
http://academic.udayton.edu/race/02rights/intern01.htm#Cases
-1
globalwatcher
kreza23, everyone becomes a loser in a war. Nobody win. Therefore, the ultimatum going to a war should be avoided at all costs. That's the reason this lesson as well as others has to be taught in Japanese classrooms.
FernandoUchiyama, no, many died there. They never had a chance to go back to their homes they used to own. Please read the weblink I posted above. If you are interested in history, that's a good one to start.
1
albaleo
@ Ivan Coughanoffalot "They're worse than Scousers"
No one picked you up on that one. Not sure if you're joking or not. I hope so. I come from Scotland, where the "wallowing in unjustified self-pity" description is often aimed, and often rightly. But the treatment of POWs by Japanese, however bad, is never a justification for wrongful treatment of your own country's citizens and residents because of their foreign origins. Most Italian Scots men were interned on the Isle of Man during the war years. It's not something that is generally mentioned in Scotland. It should be, and we shouldn't try to hide our shame.
I've met many Japanese who have acknowledged the vicious treatment of foreigners during the war. I've found them generally more aware of those events than my British friends who tend to focus on the relatively small number of POWs involved, and who are ignorant of the worse treatment given to millions of citizens in the countries they were interned. Are you not wallowing in self-pity too?
1
YuriOtani
globalwatcher, you really do not get it. These were not Japanese citizens or soldiers. They were citizens of Canada and the United States. What the Japanese did has nothing to do with this story. The government of Canada and the United States put in camps (prisons) without due process but just because they or their ancestors came from Japan.
0
globalwatcher
Yuri, I do not know where I misguided you?. They were all citizens of Canada and the United States. Yes, indeed. They were all Japanese Americans and Japanese Canadians for sure.
This is one of my academic (post graduate) studies completed when I was in Berkley. I wonder where did I mislead you?
0
YuriOtani
globalwatcher, you are comparing citizens, citizens with captive soldiers. They did nothing wrong but be of Japanese ancestry. Where you go wrong is thinking of them as Japanese Americans and Canadians, instead of calling them American and Canadian citizens. This was the mistake of those that put them in camps as well. Makes me wonder why they do not call it government treason against these citizens? The government needs to restore their land to them.
0
globalwatcher
Yuri, if you follow all my responses on the post, you will be able to understand my solid position on this topic. I was responding to the post of Ivan.
It is called a Civil Right Violation against Japanese Americans here in US instead of treason. The government could not restore the land as they were already sold to others who hold the Deed of Trust.
1
YuriOtani
globalwatcher, actually you are wrong. The government using the power of government can buy the land and then give it to the ancestors of those who were rob of it. Cost, true justice is worth it, otherwise the term"land of the free" is a sick joke. I call it treason because it violates so much of the constitution. Civil rights violations makes it a much lessor crime. Again about the current owners, well their ancestors stole the land. Getting current land value is more than they deserve.
3
Hide Suzuki
@Ivan, there are lots of Japanese people with different opinions, some are overly eager to apologize and let's do everything to make it right to Korean& Chinese people (if you live in Kyoto, then you will know, there are lots of them). And there are those who go protesting against Korean drama. But I guess due to lack of your Japanese language ability or maybe lack of knowledge in general, you think ALL the 127 million of Japanese deny war crimes commited during WWII. Get real, this article is about Japanese Canadians, of course they describe them as victims.
-1
globalwatcher
Yuri, no. They cannot. I am pasting the 14th gurantees "due process". .
Notes for this amendment:
Treason is defined when individual is doing wrongs against the government in general.
0
globalwatcher
I forgot to add, Yuri. I believe in Civil discussions. What I am doing here is to present the facts, nothing more. I cannot reverse anything what was done in the past, but you and I have to keep this in mind that something like this against humanity will never happen again as long as we live.
1
YuriOtani
globalwatcher, so you are saying the government can do what it wants? The government violated the 14th amendment and it was never put right. Giving back the land or paying fair market value to the descendants is a start. The government of the United States betrayed citizens of their country and only because they were of Japanese descent. Again what about their 14th amendment rights?
-1
globalwatcher
No, yuri, that's my point. The government has to follow the due process.
Yuri, you are asking whole history of US here. Too many issues are involved. Basically the Bill of Rights is bridged to the 14th. There is a course offered as "Individual Rights" you may consider taking in law school. That's how much involved.
2
Lawbowski
There are eight instances in this article, including the headline, where the writer uses the incorrect term "Japanese" instead of the correct term "Japanese Canadian". This is hugely ironic considering the topic of this article.
1
Ah_so
During the first Iraq war ('91), I seem to remember that Britain interred Iraqi nationals for the duration. Perhaps not all of them, but certainly those on student visas and without good family reasons for being in the UK.
Subsequent to the invasion of Afghanistan and Iraq, a number of British nationals of foreign extraction have attacked their own country (7/7) etc.
In the first case, probably most agree that it was for the best to take them off the street. In the second, nobody ever proposed to lock up every 2nd generation Pakistani, but you can see the consequences of not doing so.
I am leading to the point that looking back, it is easy to wring your hand about your shameful history. In reality, we have not idea how many of those interred Japanese might have potentially been treasonous and got involved in espionage or sabotage. Personally I think it was an overreaction and misguided, but I have hindsight on my side. However, it was a decision that someone made at the time, weighing up these issues.
Just as an aside, a friend of mine's father was an interred 2nd generation Japanese during the 2nd world war. At a certain point, the military turned up and offered the young men the chance to join the military. The theatre of war was to be the European front. He joined up and fought. Obviously the military preferred them to be send to Europe rather than fight against their parents' birth place.
0
miyazawa3
It wasn't big deal ....they didn't shot you..right..? as you did in china...
3
mitoguitarman
Growing up in Canada, I early on learned that the country ethos was rather conflicted. Considering the way the "Canadians" treated the aboriginal peoples at that time (and much later), ripping apart families, stealing children to indoctrinate them in "Christian" schools, destroying their culture and livelihood, is it any wonder they viewed the "alien" Japanese-heritage citizens as less-than-equal? Canada may seem like such an enlightened country from afar, but taking a closer look reveals latent colonial attitudes that were/are not far beneath the surface.
-7
Ivan Coughanoffalot
I repeat: I have little sympathy for Japanese people - or those of Japanese descent if it will please the hair-splitters out there - when they start bleating about how badly done by they were in internment camps.
1
mitoguitarman
Well, Ivan, we are happy for you.
-1
Spidapig24
So once again we have a victim card being played by you know who. Yes these where Canadian citizens of Japanese decent, yes some where interned, others had their movements restricted and yes they lost their houses etc. Really why is this an issue again? These people where first and foremost Japanese citizens living in a foreign country, their native country was at war with their adopted country and had launched vicious attacks against both it (attacks on the commonwealth of which Canada was a part) and against its allies. Given the situation it is completely reasonable to lock up the Japanese people as a precaution. What l find very interesting is this, the Japanese are complaining about this yet again yet the same actions where taken against Canadians of German or Italian or Ukrainian decent, the same happened in Australia.
The other important thing that needs to be remembered in this, while Canada and Australia for example interned Germans and Italian civilians the war being fought against these peoples native country was tens of thousands of kilometers away, when it comes to the Japanese they where fighting on the doorstep of these nations so the threat was real and closer and given that it seems more logical to lock up people of the Japanese decent when your enemy is the Japanese.
One last point is this, its not sad that these people where locked up. Its sad that this whole event took place (the Japanese attacks), for if the Japanese didnt enter the war then these people would not have been locked up in the first place. So who is really at fault. And finally yes they did get locked up due to Japans actions but it must be remembered these civilians faired much much better than the civilians that Japan interned during the war all 130,000+ of them. Afterall what was the death rate of the civilians interned by the Japanese during the war? And yet here we are having to listen again to Japanese complain about the treatment they received in a war they started, l think its safe to say they where better off being Japanese interned by Canada (or US or Australia), than a white person interned by the Japanese. So when you are thinking they were hard done by think of the civilians interned by the Japanese and the large percentage that didnt survive?
-1
globalwatcher
My focus on the underlying cause of this kind of discrimination based on race we experienced in WWII must be unwavering. "Can it be explained?" I would say "yes, it is caused by hatred." The hatread is at the roof of evil everywhere. Racial hatread, ethnic hatread, political hatread, religious hatread and bullies in society. In its name, all seems permitted. For those who glorify hatread, as terrorists do, and the end justifies all means, including the most despicable ones.
My position is very firm on this issue here, Ivan.
-2
nihoncritic
Than Ivan, you choose to be ignorant about one of the most fallacious violations of Civil Liberties in US and Canadian history, than be our guest. I think it is fair that you be grouped in the same camp as Michelle Malkin who wrote that rather controversial book "In Defense of Internment."
0
timtak
This article and the comments goes to show at least that there is interest in WWII internment camps. There were lots of internment camps in Japan and none of them are open as 'dark tourism' attractions. Camp Fukuoka 17 in Oomuta about which books have been written, does not even have a plaque. There is an opportunity for rememberance, regret, reconcilliation, to present views of the past, and make money for a depressed region.
0
globalwatcher
Ivan, I think it is very hard to share a core value: "The Liberty and Justice for All" to someone who never lived in US. We learn this in school when we are growing up. It is in our cells, bodies and souls. I believe that the basic human rights is a core value of democracy no matter where you are.
1
proxy
Just to round out the story a bit, the old Kai Tak Airport in Hong Kong was built by Canadian POWs under the command of a Japanese Canadian who's father had served in the Canadian army during WW1 but moved to Japan before the WW2 started. He was known as the Kamloops Kid and was infamous for his ill treatment of prisoners. After the war he was charged with war crimes but the charges were tossed out because Canada could not prosecute its own citizens for war crimes. So they charged him with treason, found him guilty and strung him up.
There were in fact Nissei Canadians of Japanese dissent who sympathized with the enemy.
1
Hide Suzuki
@Ivan, Good, based on your logic, I geuss J government can arrest you and send you to prison for crims commited by your county men. I am sure you would not complain at all, thanks for letting us know.
Moderator
Readers, please do not be impolite to one another. Focus your comments on the story and not at each other.
0
Elbuda Mexicano
War is not pretty, people die, people get killed, people get tortured etc..in this case, the Canadian government, along with the US government was very AFRAID after Pearl Harbor getting attacked by??? The JAPANESE, so what are the people on the West Coast North America supposed to do?? Sit around having Moose Head beer and say well, the biggest country in the world got whacked by that island country the other day, Japan, give me another beer oh and my neighbors etc..up here in Vancouver are from that little island nation, but them folk are hard workers and they would never SPY against the USA, against Canada etc..right, Billy Joe just give me another Moose Head beer and lets forget about that little incident called Pearl Harbor. I really doubt Canadians are that friendly, they not also messed up the natives but they also slaughter those cute furry little white baby seals every year, right??
1
ReformedBasher
I'm not saying I agreed with internment but there was the Niihau Incident. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Niihau_Incident
Only case of this happening as far as I know.
At the other end of the scale, according to this site the 442nd Regimental Combat Team is the most decorated unit in U.S. military history.
http://library.thinkquest.org/CR0210341/442nd/splash442nd.htm
-1
sfjp330
globalwatcherDec. 05, 2011 - 02:58AM JST Not only their civil rights were violated by the government, their properties including farm land were stolen by the government and never returned. Think about a property value around south of San Francisco, Watsonville today for an example. They lost billions to the government.If you are interested, you can go to Japan Town in San Jose to learn more about the darkest history in US. Also I am including website you may be interested in reading.
If you know your history, due to the uncertainty of the situations and not knowing when they will be back, With a limited time that they had, some of the Japanese-Americans had no options of keeping their cars and property (land or home) and they sold it for fraction or discounted rate of what they are worth. However, goverment did not steal the property. They had limited choices. Some of the Japanese-American residents had Caucasian friends who took the responsibilty quietly to take care the house and they returned the house after they were out of the interment camp. Of course, during the war, some Japanese-Americans lost everything during the war. But if you look at American young men and women that fought in Europe and Asia, many didn't come back. Millions of families lost their sons and daughters. I know that 442nd unit is recognized for their sacrfices. At the time, nobody in the U.S. had if fair. Not just Japanese-Americans. The U.S. made apology in 1988, what more do you need?
0
JeremiahW
In some ways Canada shouldn't be blamed. They were doing what they do best.They were just imitating the US. Canada's wartime prime minister WAS a horrible racist (He openly praised Adolf Hitler early on) but he was more focused on excluding European Jewry from Canada than he was persecuting the Japanese that Canada let move to their country to do agricultural work.
0
sfjp330
sfjp330Dec. 05, 2011 - 09:58AM JST. their properties including farm land were stolen by the government and never returned. Think about a property value around south of San Francisco, Watsonville today for an example.
Stolen? Then explain to me why Mr. Sakauye's article. He owned land and house in San Francisco Bay Area prior and during the WWII.
At the outbreak of WWII, Eiichi Sakauye was 29 years old, a seasoned farmer in San Jose, an employer, and a community leader. He recalled the shock of Pearl Harbor and the subsequent flurry of activity preparing to leave the farm for some unknown destination. Neighbors and friends who did not own their own homes were allowed to store their belongings on Eiichi’s property during the internment.
Eiichi developed a special relationship with one particular neighbor, Edward Seely. When Eiichi’s family was evacuated, Edward volunteered to look after the Sakauye farm. Ironically, Eiichi’s family had looked after the Seely’s farm, as well as his invalid mother, while Edward served in the military during WWI. When Eiichi returned from camp after four years, everything was just as he had left it, thanks to the Seelys’ protective guardianship. Eiichi paid tribute to Edward Seely long after his friend’s death by placing flowers on Edward’s grave every week.
Source: http://jamsj.wordpress.com/
0
sfjp330
Mistake, Above question is for globalwatcherDec. 05, 2011 - 02:58AM JST
-1
jonobugs
This is a blight on Canadian history, and it shames me to think about what has been done. I would like to also comment that this article is NOT about a contest over which country treated it's prisoner's the worst during WWII, but rather a reminder about what happened in Canada.
I can't even imagine how I would feel if I were in the same situation as those prisoners.
0
globalwatcher
I agreed, however it was very unfortunate as the INTERPRETATION of the 14th amend was not in cultural and social thread to protect them. IMany took an advantage of them. I hope you understand what I mean.
Apology has been accepted and we need to move on. I have my obligaton to tell the truth what had been committed by the US government.in 1942.
4
Peter Esztelecky
To Spidapig24 "Canada interred Italians and Germans"? Really? Go look up the War Masures Act on Wikipedia. It lists all actions where Canada invoked war measures within the country, and only the Japanese were put in camps. During WWI, Germans and Italians had to carry identification and were labled enemy aliens, but that's as far as that went. Some restrictions on travel and jobs. Why? There were many generations of European settlers in Canada and lots of them, and they voted, and they were mostly invisible within the white population. Queen Victoria married a German. They were family. The Japanese were few, visible, and most were in Canada only one or two generations. They stayed in communities together within cities, and that made them easy targets. They weren't considered family. The experience of dealing with WWI on the homefront had softened the governments line on Germans and Italians, and many were fleeing from there to Canada. Most in Canada had no political ties the the relatively new regimes that were running things in the 1930's. When folks left home for Canada, they had no plans to return.
So, in short, only poeple of Japanese background, new citizens and old, were put into camps in Canada.
0
David Quintero Navarro
Great comments Peter!
-2
YuriOtani
Spidapig24, they were American and Canadian citizens. Some were resident aliens but they were residents of the USA and Canada. Clue someone born in the USA is an American citizen with very few exceptions. What the Japanese did is of no concern. These people were America's and Canada's own people with the exception they were of Japanese ethnically. globalwatcher, this is not over until America undoes all it did wrong. In America Constitution protections apply to all and not just the majority ethic group.
-4
YuriOtani
I would like to think that Americans have "outgrown" these wrongs. However I wonder if it could happen again? A lot of Americans are in denial or have made excuses.
1
globalwatcher
It is still happening, unfortunately. I am pasting a weblink for you to read. Morris Dees is a famous civil right attorney here in US along with many others. You should be thankful to all who are fighting for a good cause. If you were here in 1960 as an Asian, a landowner could have refused a lease to you based on your color of skin and race. We have made a big progress. I hope you will never forget that.
http://www.splcenter.org/who-we-are/leadership/morris-dees
-3
Spidapig24
Peter Esztelecky
Yes really, try looking up German Canadian internment and also Italian Canadian internment and you will see that these two groups also had civilians interned during the war.
Um this is a discussion about WW2 not WW1 and rather than a racial issue as you allude to it was more of a distance issue. The war in Europe with the Germans and Italians was fought many thousands of kilometers away on the other side of the ocean yet the Japanese landed on and fought over islands in much closer proximity to the Canadian coast.
Completely incorrect as l have stated and if you care to look into it you will see this too.
-1
Spidapig24
YuriOtani
Yes Yuri they are American citizens, they are also Japanese American citizens and given that the Japanese attacked the US and Commonwealth these people became for better or worse a risk. Much as the German and Italians did in some countries but l dont hear you complaining about their treatment.
Ah gotcha so its ok for Japan to intern civilians but its not ok for the western countries to do the same. Well actually not the same because the majority (nearly all) the Japanese interned survived the war whereas those interned by the Japanese where less fortunate and a large portion didnt live to see the end of the war. Yet you dare complain about the treatment of the Japanese at the hands of the western countries that Japan aggressively attacked. Oh the irony
You say the US must undo all it did wrong, what an insult. Maybe its you the Japanese the instigators of this whole situation that need to undo the wrongs, it was you as a nation that started this war, it was you as a nation that caused the internment of these people through your actions and it was you as a nation that caused the deaths and suffering of millions yet you dare complain about Japanese people being interned during a war caused by Japan. But really after all this time one should not expect anything different from the perpetual victims no should we...
-2
JeffLee
@Peter Esztelecky
Wiki says you're wrong:
"During the Second World War, 850 German Canadians were accused of being spies for the Nazis, as well as subversives and saboteurs. The internees were given a chance by authorities to defend themselves....Notable was that not one of these homesteaders from 1876 or their grandchildren had ever visited Germany again after 1876, yet they were accused of being German Nazi agents.
1
ReformedBasher
I'm trying to imagine just what everybody should have done (both Allies and Axis), and what should happen in future.
1) Civilians (Citizens) from enemy nations should have been allowed to leave peacefully or stay if there were mitigating circumstances (ie stay with family or they prefer to become citizens of their host nation)
2) Visiting military from enemy nations (asssuming they were unaware of impening war) should be asked to leave, again the same applies for mitigating circumstances, obviously this would involve more scrutiny.
Basically, show some common sense. Let those who got caught up leave or stay as the case may be. As for proven spies, lock them up until hostilities cease or deport them depending on the seriousness of their actions.
Just because nations fight does not mean a free-for-all. Certain allowances should be made, especially for non-combatants. The fact that this nation did something and another nation did something else does not matter.
Not related but I remember this story -
When Lord Takanobu was at the Battle of Bungo, a messenger came from the enemy camp bearing sake and food. Takanobu wanted to partake of this quickly, but the men at his side stopped him, saying, "Presents from the enemy are likely to be poisoned. This is not something that a general should eat." Takanobu heard them out and then said, "Even if it is poisoned, how much of an effect would that have on things? Call the messenger here!" He then broke open the barrel right in front of the messenger, drank three large cups of sake, offered the messenger one too, gave him a reply, and sent him back to his camp.
If we fight, let's not fight like cowards.
0
JeremiahW
I ask the very same questions about Canada.It is just so much more white than America. Please be careful Yuri Otani,if you should ever find yourself in Canada.You never know.
0
lostrune2
Japan was evil in WW2, but those immigrants didn't deserve it.
2
Nicky Washida
I am so so so so sorry for all the people that suffered in the war, both POWS and civilians, Japanese and allied forces. I just hope and pray we all never forget and pass it on to future generations to make sure this can never happen again.
-2
JeremiahW
@smithinjapan
It was more than a blight,bub.It was part of a pattern. It existed for the same reason the racist, exclusionsit Jew hating policies of Canada's longest serving prime minister, MacKenzie King, existed. Canada was a very hateful place. Outside of a handful of major urban centers hugging the border with the United States it still is very backwards and racist.
-1
BlueWitch
@Nicky WashidaDEC. 05, 2011 - 03:43PM JST
Well said, Nicky.
-1
tmarie
it still is very backwards and racist.
Compared to where? Certainly it isn't perfect but I can't think of too many other COUNTRIES, not cities, that are more tolerant of all minorities.
0
Nessie
They were a mix of 80% Canadian nationals and 20% non-nationals.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/JapaneseCanadianinternment
The non-nationals did not have full citizenship rights. Their internment was regrettable but probably not illegal. Internment of Canadian nationals was reprehensible and almost certainly unconstitutional. For nationals and non-nationals alike, the seizure of their assets without proper compensation was unquestionably illegal. Theft, pure and simple.
0
globalwatcher
@SpidaPig24, they are Japanese American (Nissei) who are American citizens born in USA that includes Senetor Inouye of Hawaii, and former Transportation Secretary Mineta from San Jose, CA. Hayakawa-a former president of Universty of San Francisco. .This is their country.
@ReformBasher
1) Civilians (Citizens) from enemy nations should have been allowed to leave peacefully or stay if there were mitigating circumstances (ie stay with family or they prefer to become citizens of their host nation)
Some Japanese with US permanent visa left. But a majority of them are Japanese Americans born in USA. They are US citizens.I beleve there are some misunderstanding here. They do not speak Japanese. They have anyone living in Japan. This is not their host nation. This is their home.
If you are interested in learning Japanese Americans, there is a book called "Nissei" written by Hosokawa - a former chef editor of Denver Post.
0
Lieberman2012
I have complete faith that Canada will get it together one day and treat her people better.
-1
tmarie
They do not speak Japanese. They have anyone living in Japan. This is not their host nation. This is their home.
So they are kind of like the Koreans here? Not saying what Canada did is right, but can understand "how" is happened. It would be nice to think that the same thing wouldn't happen in developed nations these days but sadly, I don't believe it wouldn't. This goes on now in other countries so would be rather silly to think it doesn't happen.
Lieberman, not sure what you're trying to say here. The Canadian government doesn't do this now - they have also apologized and gave compensation. What more would you like?
Again, to draw parallels, Japan has apologized and paid compensation for Korean comfort women. It should be the end of it. Taking money and accepting an apology, even if grudgingly is suppose to close the issue. In this case, as far as I am concerned, matter is closed.
0
globalwatcher
Let's make sure we will elect a responsible leader who can exercise every options in diplomacy before delivering a last option of ultimatum. Usually, the WEAK COWARDS skip this important process in negotiations and lead us into war. True strong leaders know how to negotiate as they understand the casualties associated with wars. Nobody win in wars.
Also it is very important to think about all victims who are killed in combat. They have a son, a daughter, a wife, a mother, a father and all other relatives just like we do, and they will never forget and forgive us for many generations to come. .The war has a multifier negative effect (hatred) in civilizations.
0
ReformedBasher
@GlobalWatcher
I think the story is about Canadian Japanese but it makes no difference except a line on a map.
If the people concerned are citizens who happen to have ancestry in an enemy nation, (even first generation), they still have the same rights as everybody else. I think we are in agreement, perhaps we are just looking at it from different angles.
I respect your sentiments about peace. While not a pacifist myself, I will say that harming defenceless people is something that I scorn. I'm sure a lot of people from a martial background will feel exactly the same way.
0
Nessie
As I wrote above, 80% were ciitizens and had the rights of any Canadian citizens; in other words, their rights were violated. The other 20% were nationals of a hostile foreign power.
-2
sfjp330
ReformedBasherDec. 05, 2011 - 10:18PM JST. I think the story is about Canadian Japanese but it makes no difference except a line on a map.
It does make a difference. Since U.S. and Canada is a neighbor, if you look from the outside, like yourself, most of the policy seems to be the same as U.S. However, when you get into it deeper, they are completely a different country with different policy. U.S. policy is much more liberal. Canada goverment, like their people are ultra-conservative and they will change slowly without outside interference. I visit Canada about 3-4 times a year, and you probably don't know where New Denver is located, but it's located in a isolated area about 5 hours east of Kelowna, B.C., and 5 hours north of Spokane, WA. I was there a couple months ago in Kelowna, and this area has eastern Washington state feel. It's a beautiful area. If you know Canadian people and the politics of Canada, they have somewhat of a socialist views. Canadians are wonderful people. I doubt any changes will take place on Japanese interment camp issue with Canada.
-1
sfjp330
YuriOtaniDec. 05, 2011 - 12:35PM JST I would like to think that Americans have "outgrown" these wrongs. However I wonder if it could happen again? A lot of Americans are in denial or have made excuses.
What excuses? U.S. goverment has apologized in 1988. What more do you want? Regarding Canada, they are a different country then U.S. and they make their own policies. I guess you really don't understand Canada.
0
Peter Esztelecky
A little clarafication. I don't want to go off topic, but only people of Japanese origin were put into camps as a blanket policy by the wartime Canadian government. They rounded up men, women and children, the elderly, anyone with a Japanese background, took their property, and imprisoned them. Now, I've read the comments about suspected spies being detained, some even imprisoned, and there were camps in Canada for German and Italian POWs captured in battle. What do you expect during a war? Don't question suspected spies? Germans and Italians AS A WHOLE POPULATION were not rounded up, robbed of everything, and put into camps in Canada. Clear? There would have been tens of thousands of them.
It is not an accidental policy that the Japanese were singled out, either. Around half the fishing boats on the west coast were owned by Japanese immigrants. By taking away their posessions and forbiding them to live near the Pacific, they redistributed the boats and licenses to fish. Very convienient for the longstanding lobby groups who wanted this to happen well before the war.
-1
sfjp330
YuriOtaniDec. 05, 2011 - 05:50AM JST so you are saying the government can do what it wants? The government violated the 14th amendment and it was never put right. Giving back the land or paying fair market value to the descendants is a start. The government of the United States betrayed citizens of their country and only because they were of Japanese descent. Again what about their 14th amendment rights?
Yuri, what more do you want? In 1988, PM Mulroney gave a formal apology and the Canadian government made a compensation package. The package for interned Japanese Canadians included $21,000 to each surviving internee, and the re-instatement of Canadian citizenship to those who were deported to Japan. The agreement also awarded $12 million to the NAJC to promote human rights and support the community, and $24 million for the establishment of the Canadian Race Relations Foundation to push for the elimination of racism.
1
Peter Esztelecky
Well, it was hard to find, being a small section of a large article on all concentration and interment camps in the 20th century, but I found it. Total number of German and Italian suspected spies, who all had trials in court as a result: around 1600. Many had their property taken by the government. Many probably got what history would see as unfair trials in hostile, paranoid courts. Paranoia was pretty rampent back then. Number of ethnic Japanese in Canada at the time:23 000. Number put in camps: 22 000. No trials. All lost their property. A neary total rounding up of a people. The percentage of German and Italian people imprisoned is minute compared to the total population in Canada at the time, and they got a day in court.
0
Peter Esztelecky
Spidapig24 plays a mean game of devil's advocate, and I have gained some additional information, but my assertion stands that almost the entire ethnic Japanese population of Canada was interred, while this was not what happened to the majority of German and Italian immigrants. Their treatment was very different, even though some were suspected, tried, and interred, also. Spidapig24 also tries to say what happened in WW1 has no meaning to this policy. Quite frankly, everything that happened in the fallout of WW1 effected what happened in WW11. As for the matter of distance from the then enemies, go measure it if it makes you happy, but this policy happened at the beginning of the war, so how close any forces were years later really doesn't come into what decisions were made. Race certainly was an issue and you only need to view the "educational" propoganda of the time that the government endorsed. Go find a bootleg copy of wartime Warner Bros. cartoons or watch any hollywood live action films of the era.
0
ReformedBasher
@sfjp330
Sounds like a nice place but my point is, regardless of the country, people deserve the same rights.
And if they were just shipped to an internment camp, I think they might be more concerned about their future, including their kids, rather than focusing on the lovely scenery.
At least they should have been given a choice, go "home" (and as noted above, a lot didn't even speak Japanese) or stay. To my eyes, this was a lesser evil compared to treatment of civilians and POWs by the Imperial Japanese Army but an evil all the same.
-1
Spidapig24
Peter Esztelecky
I actually dont and havent disagreed with this statement. What l disagreed with was your earlier statement that ONLY japanese Canadians where interned which you now realise isnt the truth. As others where as well.
But Peter NO Japanese Canadians where interned during WW1 because Japan was an ally of the Commonwealth so it is irrelevant.
Um Peter again you are incorrect, the war began in 1939. Japanese internment began AFTER the Pearl Harbor attack in 1941. Whereas German and Italian Canadians where interned much earlier. So to say that the Japanese where interned at the begining of the war is false. The Canadian government only did to the Japanese what they had also done to the Germans and Italians and Ukranians. You interestingly also give a hint in an earlier post as to the reasoning behind this action. You said:
Now given that the Japanese threat was on the western seaboard of North America and the Japanese captured part of the Aleutian chain just north of Canada then this makes perfect sense to stop the Japanese having access to this region. Its not about taking away their livelihood but reducing the risk they posed to the country.
Yes indeed it did, race played a big issue on both sides, you should also take note of some of the Japanese propaganda that was also put out at the time especially some comments made by Hirohito. You seem to be painting a picture that only the allies used race as a motivator when in fact both sides did that and infact nothing has changed when two nations are at war their are always racial descriptors used against the other side.
0
jonobugs
While I agree that Canada has done terrible things in the past, I do take exception to this comment. First of all, unless you can tell me that you LIVED in Canada during WWII, I would ask you to keep your comments to events that happened. How do you know that it was a very hateful place?
Secondly, visiting a small rural area such as Kelowna (yes, I know it's a "city") is hardly indicative of the general attitude of Canada. Are you saying that other countries aren't the same in more rural areas? Also, for your information, the majority of the Canadian population remains in Southern Canada because as you go north, the climate is too inhospitable. (Thus the majority of major cities are close to the states).
However, I do agree that Canada and the State are quite different. Although many people will claim that Canada is an extension of the States, this is simple not true and in fact we often disagree with a lot of the policies from our southern neighbour.
0
sfjp330
jonobugsDec. 08, 2011 - 09:43AM JST. Secondly, visiting a small rural area such as Kelowna (yes, I know it's a "city") is hardly indicative of the general attitude of Canada.
Your correct. Today, Kelowna probably has 90 percent whites. Kelowna is more isolated from rest of Canada and has ultra-conservative views compare to larger cities. If you go to large cities like Vancouver, Victoria, Toronto, or Montreal, the ethnic population is not much different than the major cities in the states with more liberal views.
-1
JeremiahW
It's not too late for Canada to make more amends, give more in reparation payment, and see that as in America the descendants of Japanese immigrants can become senators and congress men.Canada needs to try harder.
-3
smithinjapan
JeremiahW: Seriously, we're happy that you are so utterly in awe of and desiring to be Canadian, but you don't need to try so hard -- just go through the proper legal channels, drop your baggage at the door, and you are welcome to become something better than you are now -- at least according to your obsession that's how you feel.
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