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JAPAN NEWS AND DISCUSSION

Noda's declaration on Fukushima met with cynicism

National Dec. 17, 2011 - 08:50AM JST ( 37 )

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While the natural disaster claimed 20,000 lives, the nuclear emergency has recorded no direct casualties

The Fukushima plant was severely damaged by a massive earthquake and tsunami in March

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37 Comments

2

vctokyoDec. 17, 2011 - 07:47AM JST

Noda - what are you thinking? no way the japanese people are that stupid! who are the people advising you?
1

japanmanjDec. 17, 2011 - 07:58AM JST

It's actually a good thing that skeptics are questioning this. Lets have the IAEA come in for a real inspection to tell us the truth.
-11

oldsannoDec. 17, 2011 - 08:10AM JST

was met with criticism from various quarters.

the Institute for Sustainable Energy Policies, an anti-nuclear body

Greenpeace - an anti-nuclear body

New York Times - an anti-Japan body

AFP - an anti-Japan body

various? all the same
4

moomoochooDec. 17, 2011 - 08:11AM JST

I think that it is unforgivable that the Government is still trying to save face.

You can't deal with the situation properly if you keep pretending it's fixed. It's counter-intuitive.
2

Tim_FoxDec. 17, 2011 - 08:18AM JST

It is a little like the US declaring that things in Iraq are completely under control... Well perhaps a bit of an apples and oranges comparison - but a project a good 100 years to get the area habitable again...
1

tmarieDec. 17, 2011 - 08:39AM JST

Noda - what are you thinking? no way the japanese people are that stupid!

Sadly, I think they are. Noda is gambling that they are and based on the government's handling of it all, brushing things under the carpet, still allowing food from the are to be sold, fish from the area being caught and sold, people cutting back on power and then getting excited about Xmas lights... yep, they ARE that stupid.
1

Frank E. DaultonDec. 17, 2011 - 09:01AM JST

Why doesn't this article mention Hatoyama's article in Nature? http://www.yomiuri.co.jp/dy/national/T111215005428.htm
2

Justina_JapanDec. 17, 2011 - 09:04AM JST

They just want to have this all cleaned up neat and tidy in time for O-shogatsu.
1

globalwatcherDec. 17, 2011 - 09:14AM JST

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WvxjZXjz648&feature=relmfu

I still give a huge credit to Japan for what they have accomplished from what it used to be. I have posted a weblink listed above (I listed the same for Nuke protesting issue), so you can refresh your memories where you were 9 months ago. I am just humble to accept what it is today,and I am very thankful. Many more hard tasks ahead for Fukushima, and somehow, we will get there.
1

HategoboDec. 17, 2011 - 09:15AM JST

JGov has a credibility problem. They created this problem by blatent lies and misinformation at the outset. They were extremely economical with the truth. Having said that, I hope what he says is the truth. Japan could do with some good news as we enter the year of the dragon.
0

KabukiloverDec. 17, 2011 - 09:45AM JST

This is Noda's "mission accomplished" moment. Truth that is under his nose if he cares to look at it is that a leaking reactor that is too hot to get at is far from stable. There is nothing new in the government line here. Since the 3/11 disaster the government has constantly downplayed the severity of the damage.
1

gaijinTechieDec. 17, 2011 - 09:54AM JST

@Oldsanno, when everybody starts to say that you guys (J-gov, Tepco, etc.) are doing almost everything wrong, a reasonable guy WOULD GET THE CLUE!!!

World would gladly support you guys, but not if you yourselves keep heading towards the cliff. There is a proper time for cultural pride. This is not one. Do not push others away if you don't like standing alone.
2

FarmboyDec. 17, 2011 - 10:01AM JST

I understand the desire to have a name for the improved condition of the plant. My understanding, though, is that since the containment vessel has been breached, with water not staying put, and with the condition of the fuel rods in one of the reactors being unknown, the term, "cold shutdown" is not applicable, even if the temperature is being maintained at a proper level.

The following article seems to support this view, and shows that some attempt was made in Japan to have a new term, "cold shutdown condition," as opposed to just "cold shutdown," to define the current state. It remains misleading, though, and I would suggest an entirely different term if they want to put a name to the current state of affairs.

<safetyfirst.nei.org/ask-an-expert/question-what-is-cold-shutdown/>
0

sasakamaDec. 17, 2011 - 10:10AM JST

We should investigate this announcement to confirm the real situation of new clear reactors which remains not completely fixed. To do this, the government needs to outline all data which covers not only radiation level but also robustness on equipments installed outside reactors, e.g. how long equipments can be used... for example.
2

zichiDec. 17, 2011 - 10:53AM JST

TEPCO knows less about what is happening in the reactors than what it knows. So many dark areas, so much unknown.

According to many experts it will take 30-70 years to totally decommission, if that's possible? Cost ¥17 TRILLION to ¥30 TRILLION.
2

Joseph Garrett BaxterDec. 17, 2011 - 10:55AM JST

oldsanno You mentioned that the NY Times was an anti-Japan body. I am curious to know whether this is really true. What are the facts to support this? Just because some organization says things you do not like about Japan does not mean they are anti-Japan. It all depends on whether the truth is said or whether there are subjective facts that are out of touch "with reality".
1

globalwatcherDec. 17, 2011 - 11:18AM JST

@zichi, the world has been estimating total cost including Fukushima would exceed Y50 trillion. There are still too many unknown we still have to deal with, but it is better than 3/11 when I first heard about it. Everyone in US was in total shock. My another concern is misplaced people who are still waiting for places to live. As you know the winter is just around the corner.My heart goes out to them. People often say Gambare, but how much Gambare do they have to do?
0

gogogoDec. 17, 2011 - 11:38AM JST

What happened to the water treatment plant? What happened to the dome they were building? Did all of these fail?
1

Charles M BurnsDec. 17, 2011 - 01:35PM JST

Honestly, what are they thinking. Cold shutdown, not even close.
1

LHommeQuiMentDec. 17, 2011 - 01:39PM JST

Governments, corporations and organized religion should never be trusted.

That's what history has taught us. And this is not specific to Japan or to this nuclear accident.
0

nandakandamandaDec. 17, 2011 - 02:01PM JST

Don't want to go too cold though.

What the experts above are saying about miles of exposed cooling water pipes, well, skipping around saying, is that these pipes might freeze solid.

Or put more simply, "Hey, TEPCO, almost time to start lagging some of those pipes, eh??

Nudge, nudge, wink, WINK!
1

buggerlugsDec. 17, 2011 - 02:05PM JST

Is it just me or does nodas nose look a little longer today?
-2

WilliBDec. 17, 2011 - 02:13PM JST

If external cooling is not needed anymore, it is a cold shutdown, period. It is a simple definition. If some commentators here think they have inside information that others dont have, it would be nice if we could see the sources.
0

buggerlugsDec. 17, 2011 - 02:19PM JST

Yep. I've got some sources. It's called previous experience of the government and tepco on numerous occasions making statements that were later proved to be at best wrong, at worst compleat life threatening lies.
0

FarmboyDec. 17, 2011 - 02:36PM JST

If external cooling is not needed anymore, it is a cold shutdown, period. It is a simple definition. If some commentators here think they have inside information that others dont have, it would be nice if we could see the sources.

WilliB,

Wikipedia and other sources (there is another link in my post above) pretty much agree that it is not THAT simple a definition:

A reactor is in cold shutdown when, in addition, its coolant system is at atmospheric pressure and at a temperature below 200 degrees Fahrenheit (approx. 95 degrees Celsius).[1] This temperature is low enough that the water cooling the fuel in a light water reactor does not boil even when the reactor coolant system is de-pressurized. It is a misuse of the term to describe a reactor after meltdown as 'in cold shutdown'. As the fuel assembly is destroyed no shutdown is possible. Fuel is melted together and impossible to control directly. Even if pressure and temperature are unalarming momentarily 'cold shutdown' implies complete control which is impossible after meltdown.
0

gogogoDec. 17, 2011 - 02:46PM JST

Cold shutdown of information from the government
0

Tigerta9Dec. 17, 2011 - 02:51PM JST

Mr. Noda needs to prove this by holding his press conference at the site of the disaster. Then he and every executive of TEPCO both present and past can toast their victory with a glass of decontaminated nuclear waste water.

Net-net, he's unfortunately damaged his credibility abroad and earned a C plus for Kabuki in the homeland.
1

YongYangDec. 17, 2011 - 02:55PM JST

It is an external ad-hoc, temporary, unorthodox cooling system cooling corium masses, they are NOT reactors. Look up a definition of reactor. Look up a definition of 'cold shutdown' neither on either count. Get real deniers. It ain't what you're being told, sold or fed. Think for yourselves and see the truth. No cold shutdown, no reactors, no all round on all counts. There will be no cold shutdown, only a containment -hopefully- and clean up -hopefully- of this unprecedented mess.
0

bajhista65Dec. 17, 2011 - 03:45PM JST

To PM Noda and your cabinet... just be transparent and Japan and the world the real facts about Fukushima Nuke power plants disaster. And your government plans and programs for the people affected and what have been done and needed to be done. Japanese are very good survivors and they will survive but you must be transparent and truthful with your announcement for them to understand and follow.
-1

Ivan CoughanoffalotDec. 17, 2011 - 03:47PM JST

I view Mr Noda's good news with the same healthy scepticism as Mrs Coughalot employed when I got home at 3 am the other night and declared I wasn't drunk.

It's not impossible that the declaration is a deliberate lie, but if not, it is optimistic to the point of folly.
1

nandakandamandaDec. 17, 2011 - 03:48PM JST

WilliB, to quote from the article above: ...the backup equipment installed at the plant since the crisis began is makeshift and may break down. He said winter cold could test their strength. “A turning point was to have successfully established a circulation system for cooling water,” said Kazuhiko Kudo, a nuclear reactor expert and professor at Kyushu University in Fukuoka. “But the circulation system is not a proper one for nuclear reactors and is still a stop-gap measure,” Kudo said. “The system in Fukushima, which is placed outside the reactor and connected with long pipes, is quite unstable,” he added. “It is necessary to further improve the system as quickly as possible.”

Does this not say to you that a necessary water-driven cooling system is still in place and functioning , however crude and rickety?

External cooling is still needed, I am afraid, and no-one is denying it.
0

kurisupisuDec. 17, 2011 - 04:15PM JST

Parts of Tokyo 11 times over the government set limit with no explanations and a media blackout -yes, I am an unbeliever!
0

Blair HerronDec. 17, 2011 - 04:37PM JST

@japanmanj

Lets have the IAEA come in for a real inspection to tell us the truth.

"The IAEA welcomes the announcement by the Government of Japan that the reactors at Fukushima Daiichi Nuclear Power Station have achieved a 'cold shutdown condition' and are in a stable state, and that the release of radioactive materials is under control."

http://www.iaea.org/newscenter/news/2011/coldshutdown.html

IAEA = pro-nuke (they promote the peaceful use of nuclear energy)
0

nandakandamandaDec. 17, 2011 - 05:56PM JST

Did he announce the ending of earthquake activity in Japan too?
0

gaijinTechieDec. 17, 2011 - 09:27PM JST

It's actually a good thing that skeptics are questioning this. Lets have the IAEA come in for a real inspection to tell us the truth.

@japanmanj, seriously? You're waiting to hear the truth from IAEA's Amano? Just how long are you prepared to wait?

Japan need somebody who doesn't have an amakudari job waiting.
0

nandakandamandaDec. 17, 2011 - 11:56PM JST

New leaks today, we are hearing.
0

bajhista65Dec. 19, 2011 - 03:18AM JST

@gogogo.... I am wondering too why media hasn't follow up further about the progress of the water treatment and the dome they were building. Mmmmm Where are the Paparazzi's of Japan. Maybe JT reporters can investigate and do more ambush interviews from the concerned officials. =)).