Russia defends bomber flights near Japan

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  • 1

    motytrah

    What's old is new again. Russia started playing these cold war games again in Europe about 5 years ago. Flying bombers and fights right up to the border to make a point with NATO forces. Make no mistake, Russia is sending a message, and it ain't peaceful.

  • 1

    YuriOtani

    The Americans should do some B-2 flights off of the Russian coast and see how they like it!

  • -3

    fabricij

    Japanese Foreign Minister Koichiro Gemba had on Friday accused Russia of flying the bombers around his country in a bid to put diplomatic pressure on the new Tokyo government.

    No.... Thats how the Japanese think.... The Islands are always going to cause issues... Hers is a thought..... Strike an agreement to Give back the territory off Korean Peninsula and Taipei in return.......

  • 5

    USNinJapan2

    YuriOtani

    The Americans should do some B-2 flights off of the Russian coast and see how they like it!

    That wouldn't work because the Russians wouldn't know that the B2's were there. : )

  • 1

    USNinJapan2

    Yes, the Russians didn't break any laws or violate sovereign airspace with their bombers, BUT, they did knowingly intrude deep into Japan and South Korea's ADIZs which most modern countries have and for which they consider intrusion by military (especially nuclear-capable) aircraft to be a hostile act, certainly diplomatically if not militarily.

  • 1

    Konsta

    So, how comes that bomber flights are now connected to "The row over the Kurils", which is copy/pasted to be 50% of this article? Where is the damn link sentence?

  • -7

    jackieng

    The Americans should do some B-2 flights off of the Russian coast and see how they like it!

    haha as if the americans have the guts to do that. do they really want to see a repeat of the 1960 U2 incident, where the russians shot down a US spy plane in russia's airspace, and caused great embarassment to the americans?

  • -2

    Asagao

    The Americans should do some B-2 flights off of the Russian coast and see how they like it!

    Actually, this is Russia's neighbourhood. Any American plane doing such a thing on the far side of the world would be an act of provocation.

  • 1

    Konsta

    @USNinJapan2 Here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AirDefenseIdentification_Zone it says that ADIZ is irrelevant:

    However, the U.S. Navy's Commander's Handbook on the Law of Naval Operations[2] states the ADIZ applies only to commercial aircraft intending to enter U.S. sovereign airspace...The manual specifically instructs U.S. military aircraft to ignore the ADIZ of other states when operating in coastal areas:

    The United States does not recognize the right of a coastal nation to apply its ADIZ procedures to foreign aircraft not intending to enter national airspace nor does the United States apply its ADIZ procedures to foreign aircraft not intending to enter U.S. airspace. Accordingly, U.S. military aircraft not intending to enter national airspace should not identify themselves or otherwise comply with ADIZ procedures established by other nations, unless the United States has specifically agreed to do so.

    But thank you for pointing out an interesting read.

  • -1

    Alphaape

    The Americans should do some B-2 flights off of the Russian coast and see how they like it!

    I don't get it. One moment some posters say that the US should leave Japan and its bases (not you but others here in Japan), and the next moment, they want the US to fly B-2's near Russia. I guess that whole base issue in Okinawa seems irrelevant in this case.

    As far as the US flying B-2's, the Russians do this type of thing to test the US too. They fly up north and get pretty close to Alaska and Canada. Back in the good old "Cold War" they would fly down the east coast and land in Cuba. I guess the Bear is awakening from its slumber.

  • -4

    jackieng

    I don't get it. One moment some posters say that the US should leave Japan and its bases (not you but others here in Japan), and the next moment, they want the US to fly B-2's near Russia. I guess that whole base issue in Okinawa seems irrelevant in this case.

    when things get serious with the big boys (russia and china), japan always runs to uncle sam for help. its typical japanese foreign policy

  • -4

    Asagao

    Like Georgia relied on America and it got dunced! Japanese are silly. Russia is too strong.

  • 0

    Laurie Ashwell

    what is an ADIZ?

  • -1

    SamuraiBlue

    Laurie AshwellSep. 13, 2011 - 10:00AM JST; what is an ADIZ?

    Air Defense Identification Zone You're required to radio in the intention and course of flight to the nation controlling the area.

  • 1

    gogogo

    Tokyo had been notified of the flights in advance.

    I bet just like the nuclear data that sat on a fax machine for 2 days

  • 0

    USNinJapan2

    Laurie Ashwell

    An Air Defense Identification Zone, or ADIZ, is an area larger than/beyond a nation's territorial boundaries that's designated as a high-interest area for air defense. It's not legally recognized but it is understood by most nations that if an aircraft from country B (particularly a military aircraft) intrudes into country A's AIDZ without consent or providing adequate information, then country A will not appreciate it and either respond military (scrambled fighters), protest through diplomatic channels, or both.

  • 0

    TakahiroDomingo

    i hate all bullies. and russia is playing the bully game and enjoying it. rather than just be honestly peaceful with their neighbors, they threaten, and then say they didn't do any threatening. they are simply hypocritical sickos, and dangerous because they have big guns. seems they miss the cold war.

  • -1

    USNinJapan2

    Konsta

    ADIZs are hardly irrelevent. I commend you for looking up and familiarizing yourself with ADIZs on wikipedia but you certainly did a one-sided job of cutting and pasting. Perhaps you should have also included the part that says:

    "Meanwhile in actual practice the U.S. does attempt to apply its external ADIZ to military aircraft which pass through its extended ADIZ without intending to enter U.S. sovereign territory [3]. A U.S. Air Force university dissertation states [4]: These regulations do not pertain to military aircraft, but to enter US airspace, without inducing the scrambling of fighter interceptors, these rules must be complied with and followed. The US does not claim sovereignty over these zones per se, but does closely monitor and request information of all objects entering the zone."

  • 0

    USNinJapan2

    Konsta

    (continued) We never fly into an ADIZ ( at least I haven't) in peacetime without the explicit approval of our commanders who in turn will not normally order/authorize such an incursion without the consent of the State Department. This is precisely because most nations do not react favorably to intrusions into their self-designated ADIZs as is evident from the F15s the ROK Air Force scrambled to intercept these Russian Bears. As you've quoted from wiki, our official policy may not be to recognize the right of a coastal nation to apply its AIDZ (because it is not a legal territorial border like an EEZ) but we ceratainly do take pains to avoid diplomatic rows by not intruding into an AIDZ unneccessarily or by complying as much as we can with the coastal nation's requests when we do. Bottomline, an ADIZ is not a legal territorial boundary so no nation is going to recognize it as a boundary of sovereign territory, hence we are instructed to (legally) ignore other nation's ADIZs, however, in practice we are more diplomatically sensitive when we operate near other nations' territories and do very much recognize and abide by ADIZs with the understanding that an intrusion into them without prior consent and/or coordination will almost certainly be taken as a provocative act and elicit an unfavorable reaction, e.g. scrambled fighter aircraft.

  • 0

    Spidapig24

    So Japan gets upset that Russia hold exercises in international airspace near Japan. Guess what Russia, or any country for that matter is allowed to do this as long as they dont enter the Japanese airspace on marine zones which they didnt. I find it interesting that Japan complained about this yet in the past have conducted large naval exercises close to the South Korean coast and then also close to the Chinese coast. So it seems that the Japanese are happy to be the instigator but dont like it when someone else does it to them

    The biggest US-Japanese exercises since 2007 will take place in Japanese waters off its southern islands, close to the southern coast of South Korea, officials said.

    a very large Japanese-American naval exercise will be held in December in the Ryuku Islands which extend from Japan nearly to Taiwan. This will include the region of the East China Sea, not far from mainland China.

  • 1

    CrazyJoe

    These TU95 strategic bombers actually circled Japan from Hokkaido in the north to Okinawa in the south taking 14 hours. They call it "standard practice". Are they crazy?

  • 2

    mokgohan

    Ah, good old sabre-rattling. Someday my daughter is going to start asking about this sort of stuff (probably because of some NK provocation, which I'm sure is penciled on to the military's calender over there), and I'll have a hard time trying to explain this without it sounding like the juvenile, petty and childish routines of grown men in power. Which is all that it is.

  • 0

    soldave

    It was only a month or 2 ago when Japan was complaining because China was moving ships in international waters close to Japanese coastal waters. They don't seem to realise that international waters means just that. Of course if the Chinese ships entered Japan's territory they would have a legitimate complaint, but they didn't. So they don't

  • -1

    globalwatcher

    The Americans should do some B-2 flights off of the Russian coast and see how they like it!

    YuriOtani, I remember you used to advocate against US base in Okinawa? Are you changing your position now? I am confused.

  • 1

    Alphaape

    These TU95 strategic bombers actually circled Japan from Hokkaido in the north to Okinawa in the south taking 14 hours. They call it "standard practice". Are they crazy?

    I remember back in the early 90's when these bombers used to fly out of Cam Ran Bay (Saigon) and circle our battle group while we were out at sea. They fly around Japan from time to time and I remember a few years ago when the JASDF scrambled fighters to escort. I think those bombers were making a practice to Guam. They are out there, so I hope Japan realizes that the world is not as friendly as they think it is.

  • -1

    Spidapig24

    USNinJapan2

    ADIZs are hardly irrelevent. I commend you for looking up and familiarizing yourself with ADIZs on wikipedia but you certainly did a one-sided job of cutting and pasting.

    Actually if you read the entire Wikipedia article on ADIZ it states only what Konsta posted and only says a small part of what you posted. And that part is:

    Meanwhile in actual practice the U.S. does attempt to apply its external ADIZ to military aircraft which pass through its extended ADIZ without intending to enter U.S. sovereign territory

    So reading these quotes the US military enforces its ADIZ, however and l quote:

    Accordingly, U.S. military aircraft not intending to enter national airspace should not identify themselves or otherwise comply with ADIZ procedures established by other nations, unless the United States has specifically agreed to do so.

    So the US will enforce its ADIZ but instructs its military not to identify themselves or comply with ADIZ of other countries unless there is an agreement with that country. Again do as l say not as l do....

  • -1

    globalwatcher

    We should set up something similar to NATO in Asia against Russia, China and NK as US no longer can do it alone.

  • 0

    Boris Yarovoy

    I live in Russia, and I know what place it occupies in the world. http://japanese-earthquake.blogspot.com/2011/09/what-price-to-pay-people-for-place-that.html This is a colossus on clay legs.

  • 0

    USNinJapan2

    Spidapig

    The directions you are quoting are the advice of military lawyers to military commanders; AIDZs are not legal territorial boundaries so the military is not legally bound to respect them and do have the right to intrude. The State Department however will counter this in the interest of diplomacy by instructing the military that it is a very bad idea to intrude on others' AIDZs. During peacetime who's advice do you think the military heeds and operates by? Do you think we routinely intrude needlessly into other nations' AIDZs without consent just because we have the legal right to do so? Or do you think that we respect those AIDZs and avoid flying into them without good cause and adequate coordination/notification? One needs to consider this before blindly stating that AIDZs are irrelevent and that the US military doesn't respect or comply with them.

  • 0

    gogogo

    i hate all bullies. and russia is playing the bully game and enjoying it.

    I hate the victim game, Japan is playing the victim card when Russia hasn't done anything wrong.

  • -1

    Spidapig24

    USNinJapan2

    One needs to consider this before blindly stating that AIDZs are irrelevent and that the US military doesn't respect or comply with them.

    Im not stating that they are irrelevant, l am merely stating what a members of the US Air force (Air COmmand and Staff College) have written in a report regarding ADIZ's. If you do not like what l am writing l suggest you take it up with your own military after all that is where the quotes originate.

  • 0

    Weasel

    Perhaps the Japanese could learn to jam the Russian's bomber communication equipment with Joruri songs, and all will be forgiven?

  • -4

    ironchef

    it's just a matter of time before WW3--Russia, China, NK, Iran, etc. vs. Japan, US, Europe, etc.

  • -1

    YuriOtani

    globalwatcher, yes with all that is going on I have changed my views. As for Futenma have finally beat the noise problem, have moved :) USNinJapan2, oh I guess the USA could fly B1 bombers just out of Russian airspace and send along some F-16s for good measure. Time to test the Russians airspace and those Bear bombers are not a threat. A pair of Pac IIIs and they are history or sidewinders or .....jackieng the U2 was shot down over Soviet airspace, well inside Soviet airspace very different from just outside of their airspace. What is good for the goose is good for the gander.

  • -1

    The Munya Times

    Russia defends bomber flights near Japan

    Russians don't need to defend until they only speaking to Japan. They are stronger, bigger, Japan is losing her power and getting poor and hasn't got a single friend in the world. No one needs Japan, they only needed her until they could make money out of Japan. If Russia defends or talks at all, they are addressing the world and talk to them not to Japan.

    Japan has been taking advantage of her money policy, economic and physical power over the smaller, poorer countries for decades, they should be more consequent understanding that the big boys do the same with them especially now when Japan down on her knees.

  • 0

    YuriOtani

    gogogo, so Russia would not mind US Bombers flying 12 miles away from their territory? It is what the Russians do all of the time. US Bombers off of the Pacific coast, over the Ukraine, off of the Bering sea coast, from the Black sea. These would not be relics from the 50's, modern Russia with less than 1/2 of the US population. Still flying Soviet garbage, provocation brings the same home Russia. Give it up Russia, stand down from your provocations and the rest of the world will stand easy as well.

  • 2

    Spidapig24

    YuriOtani,

    Do you know what international airspace is? Because that is where the planes where in international airspace, not in Japanese airspace. So Japan has nothing to complain about, it is no different from Japanese / US naval exercises in international waters just off the coasts of Korea and China. Japan is complaining about Russia doing exactly what Japan has done in the last few years.

  • -1

    SamuraiBlue

    Anybody had ever made critical analysis on why the Russians are doing this? Both the island dispute negotiation and this saber rattling is the same tactics used by NK, wanting help from Tokyo trying to coerce Tokyo through intimidation and bargaining in exchange for development of Siberia's untapped natural resources which Moscow cannot do by themselves. Well Japanese trade houses got royally shafted the last time with the bitter experience with Sakhalin-2 project which pissed a lot of oil majors as well.

  • 0

    globalwatcher

    @yuriOtani, good to hear that. Then you and I are on the same page.

  • 0

    gyouza

    Not just a Japan thing, Russian bombers are now regularly patrolling Northern Europe, and also the artic regions (covering their claim for the oil grounds up there).

    It is provocation, seeing how much they can get away with. The diplomatic responses are wonderful aren't they?

    “leave us bewildered and lead us to believe that some forces in Japan are using any excuses—even the most far-fetched—to feed anti-Russian sentiments,”

  • -2

    Asagao

    So if these potentially nuclear armed bombers can go to Okinawa and back in 14 hours, Japan stands no chance to defend against Russia. Surely just give them the islands is better than being nuked again?

  • 0

    gogogo

    gogogo, so Russia would not mind US Bombers flying 12 miles away from their territory? It is what the Russians do all of the time. US Bombers off of the Pacific coast, over the Ukraine, off of the Bering sea coast, from the Black sea.

    If the US told them they were going to do it, Russia told Japan they were going to fly the bombers.

  • -1

    SamuraiBlue

    Patrick SmashSep. 13, 2011 - 01:29PM JST; The Russians still do this to Britain, but we don't see it as any kind of threat. We sometimes scramble jets when they get too close, and they fly off again.

    You also do not hear Russian bombers flying a complete circle around the British isles passing the Dover Channel and fly between Ireland heading back either. Let's see how the British government react when the Russians pulls a stunt like that.

  • 0

    gogogo

    Anything to divert attention away from Fukushima hey new government?

  • -1

    USNinJapan2

    Patrick Smash

    The relationships between the UK and Russia and Japan are significantly different. No ongoing territorial disputes for starters. I really don't think it's a fair comparison.

  • 0

    JonnyM

    It looks like a performance for the electoral campaign. Russian voters must know that Putin and his party have big balls. A small international military-aided scandal always works well for that. Not only in Russia. Some nations start wars for the same reason. Though, as for me its quite pathetic and meaningless act after all.

  • 0

    lostrune2

    Everybody does this all the time. Russia and the US fly all over the Arctic Circle, over the Pacific.

  • -1

    smithinjapan

    They did not threaten Japan, and with Japan yet again making a big deal and having the island row brought up while Russia feigns surprise... well... it's certainly not the latter that looks foolish.

    USNinJapan2: Again you are bringing up the AZID's thing. SpidaPig make some good points in his retorts, and it sounds like you were not acknowledging the whole story when posting on the last thread about this. Regardless, Russia says they DID contact Tokyo about the flight, so it's one's word against the other, and quite frankly one side is no more believable than the other given both their history records of lying.

  • -1

    888naff

    @USNinJapan2 arnt your AZID posts just from an american perspective and point of view? welcome to the rest of the world and the point of this article where AZID could be considered relevant.

  • -1

    SamuraiBlue

    smithinjapanSep. 13, 2011 - 05:22PM JST; They did not threaten Japan, and with Japan yet again making a big deal and having the island row brought up while Russia feigns surprise... well... it's certainly not the latter that looks foolish........Regardless, Russia says they DID contact Tokyo about the flight, so it's one's word against the other,

    I'm sure they did in which Japan probably lodged a protest against such a flight plan but Russia carried it out anyways. Any nation would not feel at easy having a strategic bomber which could carry atomic warheads circling around the borders of your home. It's nothing more than a military provocation against Japan. If they needed to do an exercise, they could have easily done it over the Pacific where I believe the US does it all the time.Rattling the saber is not going to do any good and frankly speaking it harms their international reputation showing they cannot behave in the global arena.

  • 0

    Spidapig24

    SamuraiBlueS

    It's nothing more than a military provocation against Japan. If they needed to do an exercise, they could have easily done it over the Pacific where I believe the US does it all the time.Rattling the saber is not going to do any good and frankly speaking it harms their international reputation showing they cannot behave in the global arena.

    Let me ask you this simple question, are you equally critical of the US and Japan when in the past 3 years have conducted naval exercises near both the coast of South Korea and the coast of Taiwan and China or is your indignation reserved for when its Japan on the receiving end?

  • -1

    USNinJapan2

    smithinjapan, 888naf

    I think you need to go back and re-read my posts as well as Konsta's post to which I was replying because you clearly haven't understood my point on AZIDs at all. Contrary to what Konsta claims AZIDs are VERY relevent, more so diplomatically than militarily. Yes, as the quoted wiki info states, legally the US does not recognize another country's AZID because it isn't a legal boundary of sovereign territory. The lawyers (who write these handbooks) can't tell the operational commanders that they are legally bound to recognize and stay out of ADIZs. Most other countries have the same doctrine. However in practice we do very much respect AZIDs in peacetime and during non-emergency operations and realize that intruding into them is inadvisable and an easy way to start a diplomatic row. This is precisely the problem as Russia knew damn well that Japan and South Korea wouldn't react favorably to their bombers flying through their AZIDs but they did it anyway, and surprise surprise their actions elicited a military response from the ROK and a diplomatic one from Japan. Russia says they notified Japan in advance? If they did, do you think they received a favorable response from Japan in return or do you think Japan requested/advised them not to carry out their intentions? The response was most likely the latter and normally a friendly nation in Russia's shoes would respect it. That's what the US and any number of other nations would do because they understand the importance of the ADIZ from the defending nation's perspective and because their intention isn't to cause trouble.

    On a different note, some people here are comparing large naval exercises held in international waters in the vicinity of certain countries with this contested flight of bombers but in my line of work they are apples and oranges. For one, there isn't a surface counterpart to an ADIZ. A foreign military's aircraft intruding into your ADIZ is a real-time emergency which causes military commands to go on alert and requires immediate and sometimes drastic action like scrambling interceptor aircraft. The ADIZ is there preceisely because anything unfriendly flying into that zone poses a real threat to national defense and the further into the zone the aircraft flies the less time and opportunity you have to defend against it in the event that it is actually hostile. To the contrary, although they may publically protest, in actuality nations welcome a naval exercise that's held in broad view in international waters in their vicinity because it gives them an excellent opportunity to conduct surveillance on the forces in action and collect valuable intel.

  • 2

    JonnyM

    USNinJapan2

    ...a friendly nation in Russia's shoes would respect it. That's what the US and any number of other nations would do...

    US is a friendly nation. LOL facepalm

  • 0

    Spidapig24

    USNinJapan2

    I would like to make one point and that is ADIZ's (in the US, and l am assuming other nations too) only apply to "commercial aircraft intending to enter U.S. sovereign airspace" and whats more "in actual practice the U.S. does attempt to apply its external ADIZ to military aircraft which pass through its extended ADIZ without intending to enter U.S. sovereign territory".

    So that being said, l believe that this well and truly scuttles your ADIZ argument once and for all.

    On a different note, some people here are comparing large naval exercises held in international waters in the vicinity of certain countries with this contested flight of bombers but in my line of work they are apples and oranges.

    Well, let me just say this by those examples of the naval exercises l was asking the person if they had a problem with their military conducting military exercises on their neighbors doorstep. Whether the military exercise land, air, or naval that is close to a neighbors borders it is a source of concern for the country involved. My whole point was that some posters are up in arms that Russia has done this to Japan yet Japan has recently done the same to its neighbors.

    For one, there isn't a surface counterpart to an ADIZ.

    Well what would you call the territorial waters, contagious zone and eez then?

    A foreign military's aircraft intruding into your ADIZ is a real-time emergency which causes military commands to go on alert and requires immediate and sometimes drastic action like scrambling interceptor aircraft. The ADIZ is there preceisely because anything unfriendly flying into that zone poses a real threat to national defense and the further into the zone the aircraft flies the less time and opportunity you have to defend against it in the event that it is actually hostile.

    I actually agree but as per your own USN handbook these rules do not apply to foreign military aircraft and last time l looked these aircraft where Russian airforce.

  • 0

    CptCrunch

    Japanese Foreign Minister to President Medvedev:

    Thank you so much for arranging the bomber flights. They have taken my people's minds off the irradiated food they are eating, our plans to continue making big bucks off nuclear power, and also garned support for the status quo of the American bases.

    Also thank you for your blunt refusal to listen to our complaints about those worthless islands. Your act is most convincing.

    P.S. The check is in the mail!

  • 0

    Konsta

    USNinJapan2Sep. 13, 2011 - 06:48PM JST To the contrary, although they may publically protest, in actuality nations welcome a naval exercise that's held in broad view in international waters in their vicinity because it gives them an excellent opportunity to conduct surveillance on the forces in action and collect valuable intel.

    Now I see, why Russia is sending old bombers over to patrol.

    On a serious note, I find it ridiculous that the new Japanese government is falling to the same black hole as all the previous ones and waists its energy on nonsense and little issues. Russia, China, S. Korea, N. Korea, Nothern territories, enemies around, bombers, need US bases, don’t need US bases. It goes on and on with the same thing. Aren’t people tired to re-elect already? As I’ve already said in a different thread, Russia is not unreasonable and can be agreed with. Hell, China and Norway agreed with Russia on territorial issues. Why Japanese government can’t?

  • 0

    USNinJapan2

    Spidapig24

    I give up. Put aside wikipedia for just one minute, and ask yourself whether an Air DEFENSE Identification Zone would really not be applicable in practice to military aircraft, not legally/militarily but diplomatically. Do you really think any nation that has an issue with a commercial aircraft that flies into its ADIZ would be okay with a foreign military aircraft that does the same? If you can't accept that militaries do indeed purposefully avoid flying into other nations' published ADIZs from a military pilot that's had to file indirect flight plans countless times over the years then there's no point in continuing this discussion.

  • 0

    zichi

    Korean Air Lines Flight 007, 1983.........

  • 0

    Spidapig24

    USNinJapan2

    Spidapig24 I give up. Put aside wikipedia for just one minute, and ask yourself whether an Air DEFENSE Identification Zone would really not be applicable in practice to military aircraft, not legally/militarily but diplomatically.

    Good on USN guess what the information l got didnt come from Wikipedia (initially yes), it came from a little report called "SOVEREIGNTY AND PROTECTIVE ZONES IN SPACE AND THE APPROPRIATE COMMAND AND CONTROL OF ASSETS" written by Richard J. Butler, Major, USAF. It was written for the "AIR COMMAND AND STAFF COLLEGE AIR UNIVERSITY"

    And in it, it states "These regulations do not pertain to military aircraft, but to enter US airspace, without inducing the scrambling of fighter interceptors, these rules must be complied with and followed. The US does not claim sovereignty over these zones per se, but does closely monitor and request information of all objects entering the zone. Passage over US air space does require full compliance to the guidelines of the zones."

    Do you see the part that states does not pertain to military aircraft!!!!! That is written by your own military for you Airforce staff college. Maybe airforce and navy need to talk a bit more as you seem to be on the wrong page.

    Do you really think any nation that has an issue with a commercial aircraft that flies into its ADIZ would be okay with a foreign military aircraft that does the same?

    Oh l understand the idea and the principal and how it can be applied to civilian aircraft, however military aircraft from non aligned nations are another matter. As the intruding aircraft cannot be engaged in any way due to ADIZ being non legal boundaries then l see it merely as a way of testing responses and response times. Afterall isnt that what the US used to do to Russia and still does to China and Nth Korea. Fly along the edge of their territory probing them?

    If you can't accept that militaries do indeed purposefully avoid flying into other nations' published ADIZs from a military pilot that's had to file indirect flight plans countless times over the years then there's no point in continuing this discussion

    I can understand that militaries of partnered nations would try to abide by the unofficial rules around ADIZ's however as they are not legal many countries US included do breach them for many reasons including to elicit a response and as a military pilot you should be well aware of that. After all your military does it time and again in Pakistan for example, you have in the past with Russia and North Korea, and also China.

  • 0

    Arthur Dumbolov

    I live in Russia and I don't understand why government and military are doing this. They knew that japanese gov will overreact and still doing this. BTW, most russians don't trust to government, because of corruption, poverty, degradation...

  • 0

    USNinJapan2

    Spidapig24

    Hey, you know, you're absolutely right. The views contained in an academic research paper written by a Masters student at the AF ACSC is what we operators always execute in the field. What do I know. Sorry for wasting your time.

    USNinJapan2, out.

  • 0

    oberst

    dudes and dudettes, the world economy is on the brink, it would not be helpful to anyone's pocket books to start a pi#@ing contest over something that is SOP in the region.
    If Japan wants to act tough towards Mother Russia, it's her right BUT do not drag US of A into it unless Russia actually drops a stinker onto her territory first. Japan, last I heard, still has a SELF DEFENSE FORCE that includes some fighter jets.

    Cheers

  • 0

    JonnyM

    Arthur Dumbolov

    I live in Russia and I don't understand why government and military are doing this.

    I know, dude. To make you vote for Putin and his big balls. They protect the borders from "enemies" and show the "kuzkina mat'" to the whole world. The world is not impressed, thats not a problem. In soviet russia military acts to impress you.

  • 1

    Arthur Dumbolov

    JohnnyM, I'll never vote for Putin neither for Medvedev. Actually I won't vote for any candidate, they are all one big gang who robs Russian people.

  • 1

    Konsta

    USNinJapan2Sep. 13, 2011 - 07:33PM JST. I give up. Put aside wikipedia for just one minute, and ask yourself whether an Air DEFENSE Identification Zone would really not be applicable in practice to military aircraft, not legally/militarily but diplomatically. Do you really think any nation that has an issue with a commercial aircraft that flies into its ADIZ would be okay with a foreign military aircraft that does the same? If you can't accept that militaries do indeed purposefully avoid flying into other nations' published ADIZs from a military pilot that's had to file indirect flight plans countless times over the years then there's no point in continuing this discussion.

    Hey, don't give up. It is kind of nice to hear an opinion of a military person, who knows things firsthand. But it is also nice to argue with you. This is forum, after all. I understand that you speak out of experience and describe things how they are usually done between serious people, who have an understanding. Neither Russia nor Japan, and I mean BOTH; do not look like they do. Japan is shouting not towards Russia, but towards the US. It is quite clear: "Please, get involved!" You know that the US parliament voted that the islands are Japanese. Now, according to the US-Japanese defence agreement, the US simply MUST militarily intervene.

  • 0

    Raymasaki

    i don't see why Russia wants the northern islands they have NO use for them & Russia has the biggest land mass of any country on Earth. Japan is NO threat to them so whats so great about these islands? Bombers is a wrong stupid move on Russias part. Not many countries trust Russia. the only ones that do are, Iran,china,North Korea & Lybia. what does that tell you?

  • -1

    SamuraiBlue

    JonnyMSep. 13, 2011 - 08:52PM JST; I know, dude. To make you vote for Putin and his big balls. They protect the borders from "enemies" and show the "kuzkina mat'" to the whole world. The world is not impressed, thats not a problem. In soviet russia military acts to impress you.

    Although I do not know how Russian election system works I suggest going to the voting office and placing a blank vote. Usually blank votes are counted as invalid but the amount of voter participating will be registered. Invalid votes will be considered a vote for no confidence to all candidates and in some voting systems if the majority is invalid then voters can demand a recall placing pressure towards the candidates.

  • 0

    JonnyM

    SamuraiBlue, This is cancelled several years ago. As well as a special option like "none of the above". You still can place a blank vote, but its just not counted. Only valid votes are counted, that makes elections be a joke, cause last ten years there was a choice between Putin, commies and a couple of clowns. So many people (especially young) just don't vote at all.

    That's a little bit off-topic though.

  • 0

    JonnyM

    Raymasaki

    i don't see why Russia wants the northern islands

    First of all they own the islands. =) What they want is a peace treaty and Japanese investments in Far-East.

    Giving up with islands is considered as a defeat in diplomacy and will be responded negative by many Russians. Government doesn't want to loose its face. The agreements about territorial issues with China and Norway had been done silent, so not many voters noticed them. But as for Northern territories, Japan always keep the issue hot, so a quite agreement isn't possible.

    Also, giving up with the islands is equal to giving up with a big part of Okhotsk sea, which is used very active now. Many of those crabs, shrimps, squids and salmons labeled "from Hokkaido" are actually from Russian waters in Okhotsk sea.

  • -1

    beangry

    Typical Japanese hypocrisy. Let's see, why might the Russians do this? Simple. The Japanese do it numerous times every year when they have their 'drills' close to N Korea or China. Notice how the rhetoric is toned down with the Russians, unlike with the Chinese.

    Btw, all of you talking about the cold war havent got a clue. The Japanese took Okinawa by aggression and are in no position to talk about the Russians. Those of talking about the US needing to send it's armies here or there forget that they do that each year with the Japanese in those joint drills, and that's not all that far from Russia.

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