Saitama provides schools with gov't document allowing Yasukuni trips

Saturday 04th October, 06:50 AM JST

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TheGreatEscape at 07:29 AM JST - 6th October

dreamdrifter- False. You will not see a memorial with Hitler, Bormann etc, let alone a shrine and a museum that excuses Japans atrocities.

You have never seen a memorial with the names of convicted war criminals in Germany.
TheGreatEscape at 07:31 AM JST - 6th October

Correction, should say "excuses German atrocities".
dreamdrifter at 07:58 AM JST - 6th October

TheGreatEscape - the point you initially disagreed about was whether or not Germany commemorates its war dead, was it not?
TheGreatEscape at 08:03 AM JST - 6th October

dreamdrifter- False again i said Germany did not have a place where the dead are listed and honored.

Tell me where in Germany ther is a place where Nzai war criminals can be remembered please, because at Yasakuni, people like HItler are enshrined.

Moderator: No more comparisons to Germany please.
dreamdrifter at 08:13 AM JST - 6th October

Yawn. I posted:

at the end of the day it's a place where a country commemorates its war dead. This has been said countless times before but don't all countries do that?

and you replied:

dreamdrifter- The answer is negative.

So which part of my post does your "negative answer" refer to? I said "war dead" not "war criminals", in case you can't see the difference.
Sarge at 08:19 AM JST - 6th October

They should schedule the trips during the cherry blossom season - Yasukuni is especially beautiful then.
TheGreatEscape at 08:24 AM JST - 6th October

dreamdrifter- Tell me of a German memorial that has a criminal convicted at Nuremberg on it, you cannot.

Germany reflects on the war, and peopel are taught they were wrong.

Japanese regret losing, not waht they did, and of course thye were victims of Abomb, yawn....

Yasakuni is not a place for imprssionable kids and to compare it with anything in Germany shows great ignorance re what Yasakuni is all about.

Moderator: Readers, no more comparisons with Germany please.
FandB at 08:50 AM JST - 6th October

I understand TheGreatEscape's posts. I think you should look at the Yasakuni website as he/she suggested. The BBC website has a very good eport on why Yasakuni is not suitable for kids, to compare in anyway with a GErman memorial is very naive to say the least.

Yasakuni is not peace shrine, it has an underbelly that glorifies the Imperial army and their actions and whitewashes their atrocities, something the Germans do not do. I think most Germans would be insulted by your comparison.
dreamdrifter at 09:02 AM JST - 6th October

What I am saying is that all countries have a right to commemorate their war dead, Japan included.

The problems with Yasukuni are - The propagandist museum attached to the shrine, and - The fact that class A war criminals (who do NOT even fall under the category of "war dead", so hell knows why they put them there) are enshrined alongside the true war dead.

..but not the existence of the shrine itself.
memyselfI at 09:18 AM JST - 6th October

Every country candy coats their history. This Shrine is about people who dedicated / sacraficed their own country. This is their country let the children look for themselves. Plus, if they really want to know both views of the war. They can go to the public library or search the internet. The school trips are to open their minds and hearts. Seeing war for what it really is, war never solves any problems. It just makes the wounds deeper.
FandB at 09:27 AM JST - 6th October

memyself- You are also either very naive or choose to ignore the truth.

Go to the shrine see the people dressed in Impreial army uniforms and say it is hteir country.

If Japan wants kids to be brain washed and nobody to criticise the shrine, they should stop asking to get a UN seat. They should become self sufficient and go back to feudal ways.

Japan only survives through exports, it should be carefull who it angers. This shrine should be demolished, it causes many people great pain, and it glorifies the bactions of the IMperial army.

School kids in Japan aren'T taught and don'T ahve time to go seeking bthe truth for themselves, independent thinking and debate are not part of the education syatem. Conforming and following the rules is the norm.

Gee, why do people post here about subjects they have zero knowledge of?
dreamdrifter at 09:48 AM JST - 6th October

An old lady who I know - a stauch pacifist - sometimes visits Yasukuni for her brother who died aboard a Navy ship, and to genuinely pray for peace from the bottom of her heart. Knowing her, she most likely reviles the fact that the shrine considers Tojo et al the "war dead" alongside her brothers. However you can see that for her, Yasukuni means something personal.

I say forcibly nationalise the shrine, take it away from the bunch of right wing dinosaurs who privately run the place outside of public control. Sure, it'll just be another bunch of right wing dinosaurs it will pass onto, but at least there'll be some degree of public accountability to it. I can't imagine the goverment getting away with the contents of the museum exhibits as they are today.
yasukuni at 03:13 PM JST - 10th October

It's a little bit more complicated than that as the government just can't take control of it. Yes, there are many old ladies who go there to pay respects to family members. Of course they can also do the same thing at a grave site or family altar, but yasukuni has special meaning for them. The problem is of course that it has special meaning in a wrong way for some seriously strange people too.

My idealistic best solution is that if schools can send their students there, that they also spend more time studying the war, the war crimes and then they will be able to put things into perspective.

I have one question for people though. Why does everyone talk about A class criminals. If the A's weren't there, but the B's and C's were, would that change your attitude? And do people know the difference between A's and B's and C's?

The bottom line of course is that, in reality, the principals in Saitama who want their kids to go to Yasukuni, are not the types who see the need for an impartial teaching of history, so it's not a good development.
bytmyhnd at 04:05 PM JST - 10th October

Who cares???> I mean realy??? so what they go to a shrine, so what they are suprised that other countries have four seasons also, dumb sheep, but arent most of us??? and as fandb said, they are taught to conform, dont rock the boat, be good little sheep, well I say lert them, after I know some of their war history and it gives me great sadistic satisfaction to rub it in..lol
nandakandamanda at 04:06 PM JST - 10th October

The Emperor himself refuses to visit Yasukuni? Why is that?

Saitama Pref Govt prefers to take their lead from a political party.

Let us hope then that instead they will now teach children the real reason that the Emperor feels it is wrong for him to visit Yasukuni.

Let us continue to hope that the families of convicted Class A war criminals will understand the need for those names to be moved to a suitable alternative shrine.

Let us also hope that in the absence of anyone taking the initiative to solve the problem of 'tainted' names, a LARGE white sign will be erected at the main Torii entering Yasukuni, written in several different languages, including Chinese and Korean:

"Please be aware that the names of A Class War Criminals are also inluded in the list here of those who died in the service of Japan. They are included because they died believing in a peaceful future for Japan.

What they did, what they were responsible for, how they died, and why they were sentenced to death at the Tokyo Tribunals is important for everyone to study and understand. For the sake of peaceful co-existence for future generations of Japanese people."