Sea Shepherd says Japanese whalers rammed two of its ships

The requested article has expired, and is no longer available. Any related articles, and user comments are shown below.

  • 2

    The Chronic

    What's that famous English Proverb: Play with a bull and you get the horns?? LOL!!

  • 0

    Cricky

    Japan should send several SDF ships with orders to shoot, that will show the whole world the seriousness that Japan has about spending tax payers money on getting this meat frozen for all time.

  • 3

    taj

    They are admitted liars. And repeat colliders. (Canadian Coast Guard, Costa Rican fishing vessel, Japanese whaler,...)

    Why does everyone keep picking on them? /s

  • -2

    Probie

    It is up to the SS to stay more than 500yards away from the Japanese ships.

    “This is grand piracy,” he said, adding that the actions of the Japanese breached a number of international and domestic laws.

    Funny how they show off when they ram ships, but whine like little kids when it happens to them.

    “We’re now under attack with concussion grenades,” he told ABC television. “We’re very concerned for the safety of our crew at the moment.”

    Well, you shouldn't be closer than 500 yards, so move away and stop whining. Idiots.

  • -8

    basroil

    Guess what, doesn't matter if that did happen because it just means they were well inside the half kilometer injunction zone! If they want to throw eggs at a guy's car they shouldn't cry when they get a baseball bat to the knee.

  • -4

    marcelito

    Must be a new kind of "made in Japan " scientific researcher" out there...one that uses concussion grenades as scientific equipment since these are "reserach ships". Then again, we foreign barbarians can just never understand the "uniqueness of Japanese culture and traditions " can we?

  • -1

    marcelito

    " research"

  • -4

    basroil

    marcelitoFeb. 20, 2013 - 04:07PM JST

    Must be a new kind of "made in Japan " scientific researcher" out there...one that uses concussion grenades as scientific equipment since these are "reserach ships".

    It was actually probably (civilian defense) percussion grenades, not the ridiculous claim of (military attack) concussion grenades. The hippies at Sea Shepherd are probably too stupid to realize the difference, but if it actually had been concussion grenades they would all be dead and we wouldn't hear about it.

    Percussion grenades are for the most part harmless, at least compared to the use of shrapnel cannons to lob glass shards at energies greater than a rifle bullet that the SS guys use.

  • -4

    Alex Roncelli

    And people wonder why no one respects Japan on the world stage... Killing Earth's creatures and lying about it is an international crime.

  • 6

    gogogo

    Japan says they are killing for "research"

    SS says they got rammed...

    all I know the whales are dieing and Australia and the rest of the world don't have the balls to confront Japan about it.

  • -1

    basroil

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X0Xnd4aTjjk

    Here's a video of a percussion grenade like those that the guys on the Japanese ships are likely using. If you consider that to be more dangerous than the following video, then you have some issues!

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d4UC_2Ewhbk

    This is a video of a air cannon much less powerful than the ones used by Sea Shepherd to lob acid filled glass bottles at the whaling ships. Yes, it's far more dangerous than what the whalers send back.

  • 5

    AriesKJJ

    Can't understand why the Japanese news keeps missing the best part: The whalers also accidentally rammed the Korean refueling vessel. The Koreans are very angry and everyone is headed north. If the Koreans keep going the season is done with 1 whale killed and Japanese Whaling is done with one MORE massive waste of public funds.

  • -3

    Shumatsu_Samurai

    And people wonder why no one respects Japan on the world stage...

    http://www.globescan.com/images/images/pressreleases/bbc2012countryratings/2012bbccountry%20rating%20final%20080512.pdf

    Japan is seen as having the most positive influence in the world among all countries evaluated, and views have improved slightly since 2011.

  • -3

    Disillusioned

    I live to see the day when the Nissin Maru becomes an artificial reef and the harpoon ships are scuttled and turned into coffee cans! This farce has to be stopped and SS is the only group with balls enough to actively pursue an end to Japan's commercial whale hunt promoted as BS research!

  • 6

    cabadaje

    Well, it's because everyone else fears the violent psychopathic Japanese whalers who make a regular habit of killing anyone who looks at them wrong...or, wait, no, it's actually because everyone else in the world is wrong in regards to morality and law, and don't like the SS because they make the rest of the world feel guilty...or because every government is actually in the pockets of the mighty economic powerhouse that is the whaling industry, which gives out million dollar bribes like pillow chocolates...or...

    Huh...It's gotten pretty bad when your reputation is so bad that even if it was true that a Japanese ship had rammed the SS, half the people would have a hard time believing it, another 40% would have trouble condemning it, and only the ones who were already convinced the SS were right would actually consider it an unwarranted escalation.

    @marcelito

    Must be a new kind of "made in Japan " scientific researcher" out there...one that uses concussion grenades as scientific equipment since these are "reserach ships".

    You, sir, have obviously never spent time with a field researcher ;-)

    Then again, we foreign barbarians can just never understand the "uniqueness of Japanese culture and traditions " can we?

    You really think its a cultural thing, let alone unique?

    Not sure what culture you hail from, but tell me, if you were on board a ship hauling in a load of tuna and a bunch of foreigners started chucking glass bottles of acid on your deck, ramming their ships against yours, and trying to foul your propeller with ropes and chains, what would be a common cultural reaction amongst your people on board?

    Incidentally, has anyone priced propellers recently? Yikes!

    @Alex Roncelli

    And people wonder why no one respects Japan on the world stage...

    Who wonders that?

    Killing Earth's creatures and lying about it is an international crime.

    You're a vegan? Or is your rational on food as solidly grounded as your concept of international law?

    @AriesKJJ

    Can't understand why the Japanese news keeps missing the best part: The whalers also accidentally rammed the Korean refueling vessel. The Koreans are very angry and everyone is headed north.

    This is probably (finally) one of the brighter ideas the SS has come up with. Simply put, like good little terrorists, the SS figured out that if you can't eliminate the main target, then target all the people around him for elimination.

    Although, reading the preliminary reports, I can't help but wonder how a ship that's a good 4-5 times the mass of another ship can repeatedly ram it (ignoring the actual physics of how you get a ship that large to move back and forth as if it was a tugboat), and not sink it in the first blow, let alone merely leave it with a minor leak that was apparently patched within the hour by the crew.

    Those SS guys must be fabulous sailors to be able to maneuver away from danger like that, particularly when under fire from weapons Marines regularly use to kill enemy soldiers in pillboxes when incendiaries would be too dangerous.

  • 2

    Heda_Madness

    (ignoring the actual physics of how you get a ship that large to move back and forth as if it was a tugboat

    Don't ignore that. The SS are suggesting that they hit. Reversed. Hit. Reversed. Hit. Reversed. Someone has just reinvented the rules of physics.

  • 1

    Disillusioned

    Here is the report from Sydney. It reads a bit differently to this one though.

    http://www.smh.com.au/environment/whale-watch/ships-collide-in-antarctic-whaling-protest-20130220-2eqyg.html

  • 5

    cabadaje

    Here is a clip of the transmission that SS claims proves the Japanese spilled fuel-oil. I've listened to it three times, and I didn't hear anything remotely like that.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jo5tpkx3PLE

    I am a little curious about the SS mayday claim, though. A Mayday is like calling 9-1-1 (or 1-1-9, or whatever the emergency number is in your country). You don't make a call like that lightly. If the SS send a Mayday signal and it cannot show a valid reason to believe the ship was in imminent danger, well, most countries have jail terms for that sort of thing. It is kind of serious. If it actually was an actual Mayday, both the tanker and the Japanese ship would be required to render assistance, and would be in deep trouble if they didn't.

    I think the SS has backed itself into a corner with this one. The group that intentionally scuttled one of their ships (along with its complement of fuel-oil, greases, toxics, and various other things you cannot legally dump into the Antartic waters) is accusing a fuel tanker (that they freely admit to harassing while a fuel operation is underway) of endangering the environment, and in the clip they give as evidence, you don't hear the slightest little hitch in the captain's voice as he confirms everything has been properly stowed and shut that would indicate they have just done something that could well lose them their license, their ship, and their company.

    The SS also claims that they were attacked to the point of having to issue a Mayday. If this is the case, the both the tanker and the Japanese ship will be facing charges when they return to port, ranging from reckless endangerment to attempted manslaughter, as well as refusing to render aid on the high seas. However, if it turns out there wasn't an actual emergency, then the SS has to show that at the very least, it thought it was in a life or death situation. This isn't a contempt of court thing anymore. This is jail time people are looking at. You don't mess around with emergency rescue systems.

  • 1

    Yubaru

    And people wonder why no one respects Japan on the world stage... Killing Earth's creatures and lying about it is an international crime.

    I would rather have the Japanese kill a few whales every year for research or whatever, than see the rest of the world kill HUMANS in the name of peace.

  • -5

    funkymofo

    The moronic poachers accidentally rammed their own refuelling ship.

  • 0

    Laguna

    Ram ships? Ewe had it coming! Still, when the lion lies with the lamb, it is better not to be a sheep.

  • 2

    USNinJapan2

    So Sea Shepherd ships disrupt refueling operations between the whaling vessels and the tanker and are surprised when a collision occurs? Does anyone appreciate how difficult it is to conduct a CONREP (alongside connected replishment) even in perfect conditions? It would be impossible to do with ships trying to physically block you. The Sea Shepherd vessels are totally responsible for causing the collisions that occured. The masters of each SS vessel that were participating in the operation should be summarily revoked for willfully endangering the lives of all crews involved and for potentially causing an environmental disaster had any fuel spilled as a result of the collisions.

  • 4

    Inspector Norse

    Watson has in the past claimed to have been shot by the Japanese, he sunk his own vessel. He has compared Japan's hunt to the barbaric nature of the Japanese by referring to WW2. This unstable man has less credibility than the most extreme Holocaust denier.

    I can understand that many of you think whales are super cute and you want to hug them and all, it's just that if you guys really want to save the whales you'd be much better off getting a new organization with at least some credibility.

  • -3

    smithinjapan

    basroil: "This is a video of a air cannon much less powerful than the ones used by Sea Shepherd to lob acid filled glass bottles at the whaling ships."

    True to form, basroil; concussion grenades are suddenly 'percussion grenades', and wrotten butter is 'acid filled glass bottles'. Classic.

    Anyway, everyone knows what terorrists the Japanese whalers are, and here is further proof. Acoustic weapons fired at helicoptors, ramming ships, firing water cannons, lobbing concussion grenades, refusing to allow help in finding lost crewmen, spilling diesel oil into pristine waters, etc. All in the name of 'science', until it's in the name of cultural tradition, I mean.

  • -1

    Yubaru

    Japanese aren't forcing others to eat whales. So others have no right to tell the Japanese to stop hunting and eating whales.

    Be like the people in India telling the rest of the world not to eat cow, but they don't now do they?

  • -3

    smithinjapan

    "Japanese aren't forcing others to eat whales. So others have no right to tell the Japanese to stop hunting and eating whales."

    Actually, they force it on kids in school lunches after the government simply cannot sell the massive stockpile they've subsidized the whalers for.

  • -4

    smithinjapan

    Inspector Norse: "This unstable man has less credibility than the most extreme Holocaust denier. "

    No, but someone who would make that comparison certainly has less credibility than Watson at least.

  • -3

    smithinjapan

    Inspector Norse: "Some people are extremely ethnocentric and close minded and have no sense of shame."

    Change every mention of 'whale-huggers', etc., in your post to Japanese whalers and you're bang on. Don't forget where they force children to eat stock-piled whale, until a foreign science report forces a certain mayor to stop making kids eat the stuff, with it's major mercury levels and what not. Oops!

  • 1

    smithinjapan

    I have no doubt the Japanese have video proof that it was in fact the SS who tried to ram the Japanese vessels and who threw things onto the decks of the whaling ships, etc. They just won't show you the proof and will ask you to please cooperate and believe them because not doing so would be very regrettable.

  • 10

    USNinJapan2

    Forget the damn whales. Sea Shepherd, by their own proud admission, is willfully using vessels to impede other vessels from navigating and operating safely. That's fundamentally dangerous and illegal anywhere in the world. Why is it excusable simply because whales are involved? The only circumstance I can think of in which actions like Sea Shepherd's would be remotely acceptable would be if they were in an effort to save a HUMAN life, nothing less. Those of you who support Sea Shepherd are, like them, placing higher value on the lives of animals above human beings and need to get your priorities straight. And how about the environment? You don't think that a significant and harmful fuel spill could have resulted from these collisions that Sea Shepherd are all but orchestrating? Seriously, take a step back away from the whaling issue and see how irrational, absurd, and dangerous Sea Shepherd's modus operandi is.

  • -6

    smithinjapan

    USNinJapan2: "Those of you who support Sea Shepherd are, like them, placing higher value on the lives of animals above human beings..."

    Same can be said of the whalers, but there's is literally 'value', as in monetary gain.

    "And how about the environment? You don't think that a significant and harmful fuel spill could have resulted from these collisions that Sea Shepherd are all but orchestrating?"

    You mean like Japanese ships intentionally releasing diesel fuel like they did the other day? nah!

  • 2

    USNinJapan2

    smithinjapan

    I thought it was for science.

    Yes, the science of researching sustainable whaling and the potential to retain whale as a part of the human diet. How is that so hard for you to understand?

  • -2

    Verisimilitude

    The irony is, there are countries in Europe who hunt whales.. and turn them into kebabs and what not.. the shepherds do not seem to care for those whales.. in reality, there is not economic value for hunting whales so far south.. the trips on the balance sheets are always red.. its much more economical, in revitalizing the tohoku region, by reintroducing whale hunting in the regional fishing industry.. i.e. hunt the minike whales, which by the way.. are not endangered. Of course, international law prohibits this.. and i doubt the politicians care... let alone will do anything.

  • 1

    Heda_Madness

    Spud man, you know the SS threw away their GPS after the Ady Gil incident don't you?

    This would have allowed the exact tracking of the vessel's path to be retrieved.

  • 2

    Inspector Norse

    According to IWC rules. Scientific Reaearch is conducted so that countries can calculate how many whales can be hunted without depleting the stocks. That's the point of the research and not so that smithinjapan and other whale hugging extremists can go on a whale safari.

  • -1

    AriesKJJ

    ...So sensitive for those who would harpoon a whale?

    Forget about science proving anything about sustainable whaling. Science has proven that whales have spindle cells which are for self awareness, given that and some other exceptional characteristics anyone with sense and any heart would stop killing them period.

    Arguing for killing an animal unnecessarily (via a loophole?) best go have a talk with the person in the mirror!

  • 1

    Heda_Madness

    Smith, no he means like the time that the SS deliberately scuttled the Ady Gil full of oil for better TV.

  • -4

    smithinjapan

    Verisimilitude: "The irony is, there are countries in Europe who hunt whales.."

    That's not irony, for starters. Second, do they hunt them in the Southern Ocean and claim it's 'tradition' to do so, forgetting they claim to be doing it as science and not for food?

  • 0

    Heda_Madness

    So why is Ady Gil suing the SS? If it didn't happen?

    Bit bizarre...

  • -9

    Steve Christian

    Why anyone would choose sides in this is beyond me. The world would be better off if both groups sank to the bottom.

    I view both SS and the Japanese whalers with suspicion. Both are proven liars and proven violent. SS has a slight moral high ground because its the whalers that started this by whaling with no good reason but that is about it. But of course if you believe this scientific whaling hype then I am afraid you are lost at sea.

  • 4

    megosaa

    Sea Shepherd says Japanese whalers rammed two of its ships

    and you deserved it.

  • 0

    USNinJapan2

    Of course we should believe Sea Shepherd's claims. After all, they'd never do anything dangerous for impact and attention would they?

    <http://www.3news.co.nz/Ady-Gil-sues-Sea-Shepherd-over-Antarctic-sinking/tabid/417/articleID/282601/Default.aspx >

  • -4

    Arian Garcia

    Long life to Seashepherds! Let more people within this world become councious about the main reason Japan is involved in this slaughter. EGO and pure ego....

    I would be very ashame of this whaling campaign if I would be Japanese...

    Seashepherd rules!

  • 1

    funkymofo

    Japan has suspended it's Antarctic whale hunt :) http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-02-20/japan-halts-whale-hunt-after-sea-shepherd-clashes/4530854

  • -2

    funkymofo

    *its

  • -6

    letsberealistic

    funkymofoFEB. 20, 2013 - 08:59PM JST Japan has suspended it's Antarctic whale hunt :) http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-02-20/japan-halts-whale-hunt-after-sea-shepherd-clashes/4530854

    A job well done SS though I can't agree with aggressive and potentially dangerous manoeuvres at sea the sooner the Japanese whaling ends, the better for all: for whales, Sea Shepard and most importantly for the Japanese tax money and reputation.

    Japanese whalers returning to Japan now is a victory for the Japanese people more than a victory for anyone else in my opinion.

  • 0

    redmanshow

    Truth prevails and Lies die in the middle of the ocean.

    http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-02-20/japan-halts-whale-hunt-after-sea-shepherd-clashes/4530854

  • -4

    Outta here

    USNinJapan2

    "I thought it was for science." Yes, the science of researching sustainable whaling and the potential to retain whale as a part of the human diet. How is that so hard for you to understand?

    Obviously it's extremely hard to understand. Especially when your own countries government calls the Japanese actions "commercial whaling in disguise". And that was only part of what your own IWC people said I the congressional a hearings on the matter. I guess your own government is at odds with your position USN

  • 3

    cabadaje

    @smithinjapan

    True to form, basroil; concussion grenades are suddenly 'percussion grenades',

    True, that's a guess on Basroil's part, but in all fairness, it is supported by the Sea Shepherd sailors not being dead.

    and wrotten butter is 'acid filled glass bottles'. Classic.

    Rancid butter (and for that matter, regular butter, and pretty much all lactic products) contain butyric acid, however butyric acid is not "rancid butter". Just because they used the Greek name for rancid butter doesn't mean that is what it actually is.

    And, again, to be fair, it isn't an extremely vicious acid. If you spilled some on yourself (in the concentrations used by the SS), and left it there, after about three minutes you would start to feel an unpleasant, sunburnish, sort of sensation. Of course, you would probably be more concerned about your stomach attempting to exit through your mouth, but hey, science.

    However, here's the thing: Japanese skin isn't the same as Western skin. I know, sounds weird, and it isn't my area of expertise, but I have had friends tell me that they tried American skin care products not regularly sold here, and they reacted badly to it. As for myself, last winter I bought a Japanese face moisturizer recommended by a co-worker, and I had to wash it off because it started burning. It actually caused a little bit of skin peeling.

    I don't know how Japanese skin would react to Buteric acid. I do know that when Peter Bethune was on trial and the guy with the facial burns was brought in, the marks were not life-threatening, but they were clearly visible. It wasn't a major part of the case, and one gets the impression that everyone involved agreed that it was really an unpredictable accident (the burns, that is. Bethune still got punished for actually throwing bottles of anything at other ships).

    Anyway, everyone knows what terorrists the Japanese whalers are, and here is further proof.

    I can honestly say that this is the first time I have ever heard the Japanese being referred to as terrorists.

    Acoustic weapons fired at helicoptors,

    Such a terrorist cliche,

    ramming ships,

    Sorry, the Law of Mass Tonnage may be recognized by international law, but it is enforced by the sea herself. Complain to her if you have a problem with how she handles physics.

    firing water cannons, lobbing concussion grenades,

    Water, sure, grenades...still waiting on data for that one. The articles that have been coming out now seem to be backing away from that.

    refusing to allow help in finding lost crewmen,

    Can't say I blame them.

    Can you really not see that the Sea Shepherd has so little credibility that it cannot even be trusted to help assist in a man overboard search? That the overwhelming judgement is that any involvement by them would reduce the effectiveness of the search, not increase it?

    The Sea Shepherd does some seriously antagonizing, seriously dangerous, seriously stupid sh!t. Antarctic waters aren't a place where that sort of thing can be tolerated (few places in the ocean are).

    spilling diesel oil into pristine waters, etc.

    Still waiting on some actual proof of that (why does the video show the ships, the fuel lines, then suddenly cuts out, and then comes back on with someone holding a sample cup of dirty water? Why didn't they video the guy reaching down into the ocean to take the sample?)

    All in the name of 'science', until it's in the name of cultural tradition, I mean.

    Until the IWC get's off it's keister and admits they have no further reason to maintain the absolute moratorium. Then they can go back to whaling to actually create a whaling industry.

  • -1

    basroil

    smithinjapanFeb. 20, 2013 - 06:51PM JST

    True to form, basroil; concussion grenades are suddenly 'percussion grenades', and wrotten butter is 'acid filled glass bottles'. Classic.

    Got any proof that they used military grade explosives rather than a perfectly legal percussion grenade that they have been shown using in the past? Have any video or photo proof of the explosive damage to the ship, which is impossible not to have with a concussion grenade?

  • 1

    Azzprin

    he told ABC television.

    What has happened to the normal film footage they take ?

    Anyone seen any fotage of the collisions ?

  • 0

    cabadaje

    @smithinjapan

    You mean like Japanese ships intentionally releasing diesel fuel like they did the other day? nah!

    Wait...

    What possible reason could the Japanese ships have for intentionally releasing diesel fuel?

    Unlike, for instance, intentionally scuttling someone else's boat, and exposing the environment to all the fuel and toxics on board (and, incidentally, setting up formerly mentioned Peter Bethune as the patsy, denying and separating themselves from him, and leaving him to rot in jail, without so much as a couple of bucks for court fees)?

    Second, do they hunt them in the Southern Ocean and claim it's 'tradition' to do so, forgetting they claim to be doing it as science and not for food?

    You...are really having trouble with the concept of doing something for multiple reasons.

  • 2

    cabadaje

    From the article about the Japanese withdrawl:

    The institute says work has stopped for the time being because it is too difficult to refuel.

    Notice this? Understand what it means?

    The whaling ships aren't going to blow up if the SS interferes with the fueling operation. The fuel tanker isn't going to be in danger unless the SS ships decide to go full kamikaze on them.

    Why are they withdrawing?

    Because they care about the environment. And the Sea Shepherd is using it as a hostage.

    The only result of the Sea Shepherd blocking a refueling operation is that eventually, something is going to break and hundreds of gallons of fuel-oil is going to pollute the Southern Ocean. The Japanese refuse to risk that, and they are willing to back down and walk away from a fight that they have rigidly endured for almost 5 decades. They will not continue the fight if it means that the environment might get destroyed in the process.

    Well done, Sea Shepherd. You have successfully engaged in threatening the safety and existence of something completely unconnected and innocent of your political cause in order to force your actual opponent, who you were unable to stop, to retreat.

    Congratulations. You have graduated from eco-terrorism to terrorism.

  • -10

    BurakuminDes

    Looks like the Japanese whalers and their Korean comrades are heading back home with their tails between their legs! Lowest catch in years. Sea Shepherd - your mission was a success.

  • -11

    SwissToni

    I for one hope that the whalers 'Research in Force' is genuinely over for this season. I'm glad Seashepherd didn't back off and have again forced the whalers to embarrass the Japanese authorities . So far a good result this season and if the hunt is over, a great win again for Seashepherd.

    Now maybe the Australian government can be embarrassed into action. They really need to be overseeing the hunt and getting the whalers to wind their necks in.

  • 7

    highcrayons

    Sea Shepherd began its campaign when whale catches were at their lowest, and catches have increased since then. Despite their claims of preventing whaling, we can see that more whales were killed per year after 2004 than any year before 2004. In other words, more whales are dying on Sea Shepherd’s watch.

    So where do they get the claim that SSCS is reducing the numbers of whales caught? Remember they always report whales saved in relation to the Japanese quota, a reasonable value since the quota provides the absolute upper limit for how many whales will be killed each year. What they ignore is that, in 2005, the quota increased from ~350 to ~1000, and at no point since that increase has Japan ever reached quota.

    All of this points towards the fact that Sea Shepherd’s claim that direct action is saving the whales is bunk. More whales have been killed per annum on Sea Shepherd’s watch than during the 16 years before Watson declared a Whale War. The only conclusion that can be drawn from these data is that Sea Shepherd’s claim that they are preventing whales from being slaughtered is not supported.

    http://www.southernfriedscience.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/06/scientificwhaling.png

  • -3

    avigator

    All these posts will not change anything in favor or against the facade hunting. Those in favor, whether truly or just to be in harmony with Japanese friends or family, then eat as much whale meat as you can. Those against it, boycott Japanese products as much as possible, and encourage others around the World to do the same. May the strongest prevail. And by the way, there are such movements already in the Internet and in Facebook. I have eaten the meat and it is not anything to kill those animals for. Whales come down to Okinawa in spring, so why do not Japanese kill them in their own backyards like they do with the dolphins of Taji? Case closed!

  • 2

    Magnet

    Just for the sake of curiosity, I'd love to see how many similar events would occur if there were naval vessels present, and whether or not their presence would result in fewer or more whales being slaughtered.

  • 0

    Kobuta Chan

    Bob Brown is crazy guy. Who will take serious him? That water is not Australian territorial water. UN does not recognized as Australian Antarctic territorial water claim by Australian Government.

  • 2

    marcelito

    Cabadje " Why are they withdrawing? Because they care about the environment ."

    That is the funniest thing I read on this thread - the J whalers care about the environment... Hats off to you sir for this gem :-)

  • 0

    nigelboy

    As predicted, it appears anti-whalers and SS supporters have failed not only failed in "Science" (unable to comprehend the report submitted to Scientific Committee) but skipped the entire "Physics" class as well.

    It appears that SS wants us to believe that an 8,000 ton class vessel which is manuevering towards a 5,700 ton refueling tanker combined has the manuevering/agility capability of a much smaller SS vessels where in tandem, could actually ram the smaller SS vessels.

    And as for the "heavy fueld" accusation by the SS member, the Japanese vessel now run on Type A fuel which is equivalent to "MDO" as opposed to the previous heavy fuel (type C) which is equivalent to "MFO"

    In any case, ramming while conducting refueling procedure is beyond childish in anybody's standards

  • 1

    T-Mack

    The Sea Sheppard brought this on themselves. Each year the violent nature of the crew of the SS seem's to grow and grow. I am not be surprized if Japan starts giving SS some of their own medicine...

  • -1

    Stranger_in_a_Strange_Land

    Hunting non-endangered animals is ok. Sea Shephard fanatics should all be thrown in jail.

  • 1

    Xeno23

    These two, SS & the Japanese whaling industry, deserve each other - it's a match made in heaven, or hell; probably both. This isn't a comment about legality, international or otherwise, or justification of industry or government policy or bad behavior on the high seas; simply karma - if I may use such a mystical metaphor.

    The Japanese government's support of the whaling industry is an entirely normal thing for a government to do, but it's an ailing industry with virtually zero economic viability; it will die in due course - and likely before Minke whales become dangerously threatened. In the meantime, we have a spectacle of distasteful notoriety apparently fascinating to all; a real reality show.

    It is interesting to note that SS doesn't conduct operations nearly as strenuously against Norway; is that perhaps because Norway sends out their Navy to oppose them? Japan doesn't do this (AFAIK - if I'm wrong, please correct) - is this indicative of a tacit annoyance even within the Japanese government for this whole mess?

    That the international maritime community hasn't already done something definitive about SS seems to indicate tacit approval of their mission too - even if no one will admit it. All the international court panoply isn't much more than that: fancy dress. It isn't too much of an imaginative stretch to conclude it's all a delaying action until the whaling industry just dies out - when the issue will become moot.

    The whaling industry is widely reviled, and to ignore this, or call it something else, is irrational. Which isn't to say the disdain for whaling isn't itself irrational; that's not the point. This matter is so suffused with irrationality it's become nearly impossible for reason to prevail. So the Grand Guignol of industrial whaling and its intractable foes continues - at least until its inevitable extinction.

  • 3

    gelendestrasse

    So the SS guys have interfered with a refueling operation at sea by putting their ship into close proximity with two ships with limited manuvering ability. This is clearly a violation of SOLAS and the skipper of the Bob Barker could be stripped of his license. This will also trigger the US court ruling and quite possible end the SS non-profit status.

    The SS has really put themselves between a rock and a hard place this time. Stupid risk to take.

  • -2

    AriesKJJ

    The good news is ... only 1 whale was killed in the Southern Ocean Sanctuary this year and all whaling vessels are headed North.

    Millions of yen were once again wasted but hundreds of lives were not. The Japan gov can likely stop paying their shills now. ( who were a waste of money to begin with and couldn't win an argument with a stuttering monkey)

  • 1

    cabadaje

    @AriesKJJ

    The good news is ... only 1 whale was killed in the Southern Ocean Sanctuary this year and all whaling vessels are headed North.

    I disagree. The good news is that, despite the Sea Shepherd's actions, the southern sea and the antarctic region has been temporarily spared a major environmental catastrophe. The Sea Shepherd was willing to place the entire region in jeopardy for years to come, including endangering not just future whale stock, but all other life in that area, for their selfish desires.

    Millions of yen were once again wasted but hundreds of lives were not.

    No, but thousands of lives were put at risk. All so that the Sea Shepherd could waste millions of Japan's yen, and then, with that curious ability to mentally dodge any and all responsibility for their actions, claim that the whaling industry never makes a profit.

    The Japan gov can likely stop paying their shills now. ( who were a waste of money to begin with and couldn't win an argument with a stuttering monkey)

    Really? Because the stuttering monkeys seem to be in the radical minority, considering that the best they can field is a couple of pirate boats that are already in legal trouble, and can't even get any country to come to their aid when they call a Mayday.

  • 0

    cabadaje

    @marcelito

    That is the funniest thing I read on this thread - the J whalers care about the environment... Hats off to you sir for this gem :-)

    I'm not laughing. At this point, continuing to support the SS out of the belief that they are worried about the environment is, at best, utter naivete, at worst complete denial. It is one thing to to bias an opinion based on perspective, particularly regarding morality; it is another thing entirely to completely disregard the reality that is occurring right in front of your eyes, and is being blatantly admitted to by the actual group.

    The Sea Shepherd really must think that everyone on the outside are utter idiots. They released a video claiming to have evidence that the Japanese vessels had released heavy fuel-oil into the ocean, yet their video only shows two ships, refueling hoses, and then cuts out, only to come back with a man holding a sampling cup. Really, when you are filming something for the purpose of providing evidence, exactly what goes through your mind when you make the decision to not film the part where you are actually gathering the evidence?

    Perhaps they have become just a little too complacent with their regular cheerleaders, who not only make no effort to actually analyze their claims, but cheerfully go on to expand on them, to the point that now you hear people claiming that the fuel-oil release was intentional (why?). Similarly, you would think that a tanker that has to register its cargo and its destination prior to departure would be very hesitant to load an illegal fuel and head towards a known fragile ecosystem, particularly when a group that has previously endangered the craft has publicly announced that it will be there, so you know that any illegal activity is going to be filmed, and that their cargo was going to be checked as soon as they got back to port.

    They have also released a video about the alleged ramming incident.
    http://www.stuff.co.nz/world/south-pacific/8332975/Japan-puts-whaling-mission-on-hold You see the tanker, you see the Nisshan Maru coming in along-side; all perfectly normal procedure. Then you notice the tiny little Bob Barker right between the two...what the Hell is that ship doing there? First and foremost, if you are not refueling, you do not go to a tanker's fuel side, particularly for a small boat like that (if you need to board, you go aft and board from the rear). But that's academic because the Sea Shepherd has no problem claiming that it was intentionally interfering with a re-fueling in progress, seeing absolutely nothing wrong with doing something that includes some of the most dangerous, idiotic, and and amateurish actions one can physically perform on a ship without actually having a monkey tied to the wheel.

    Hopefully I don't have to explain why a small ship getting between two massive ships is dangerous, or why interrupting a re-fuel in the middle of fragile Antarctic waters is idiotic. But why amateurish? Well, most sailors do know this, but it may not be so obvious to non-sailors:

    Two large ships moving close together have to be wary of the water speed and conditions between the two ships, because once they get within a certain distance of each other, they will be drawn together by the force of the water moving between them. This is a force in addition to all the other forces involved in moving large ships, which is why ships carrying out any sort of RAS need to be careful, unlike smaller ships that are less affected by all these forces. Now, if you take that small space between the large ships, where the water is moving faster and drawing the ships in, and stick another boat in there, the alleyway where the water is rushing through has just dramatically decreased in size, which has made the water move much faster, which has increased the draw between the two ships, which, because they are massive ships and not exactly capable of stopping on a dime, will cause all three ships to collide together. This will not be good news for the ship in the middle, particularly if it is a much smaller ship.

    The video not only demonstrates this principle in action (and this video will likely become a standard part of future navigation education, as it is very rare that you see sailors demonstrating such an utterly idiotic combination of dangerous maneuvers leading to inevitable failure), it also provides a bit of insight to some of the more ridiculous claims made by the Sea Shepherd.

    To begin with, it is blatantly obvious even to the most inexperienced mariner that the Bob Barker is entirely too damn close to either ship, and there is no way under the currently known laws of physics that either ship is going to be physically capable of stopping. The international community refers to this as the Law of Mass Tonnage; the Sea Shepherd refers to this as "ramming".

    We also see explained another of the Sea Shepherds claims: That they were rammed over and over again. Again, ships this large don't stop as if they were cartoon coyotes hitting a brick wall. If they hit something they can't go through, they rise upwards due to the force having to go somewhere, and then they come back down. The Sea Shepherd calls this "repeatedly ramming". The rest of us call it gravity.

    Doesn't stop there. The way the Sea Shepherd makes it out, it sounds like the Nisshan Maru crashed into them, backed up, hit them again, repeated this a few times, and then suddenly missed and hit the tanker instead. But if we look at the video clip released by the SS, we see the Nisshin Maru attempting to veer off to the clear side (as is procedure in the event of an emergency and which would normally work), however the Bob Barker, still the tiny little ship unable to really compete with the draft of the big ships, gets sucked and crashes into the forward hull of the larger ship, which, for those who understand physics, causes the back half of the ship to swing forward and sideways (aided by the decreasing draft of water between the ships), striking the tanker. So, according to the video supplied to us by the SS, the Nisshan Maru didn't actually ram the tanker, intentionally or otherwise. The aft sections of both ships where drawn together by the forces that inevitably and solely resulted due to the much more maneuverable Bob Barker intentionally putting itself in exactly the worst place to be in terms of safe navigation.

    The Sea Shepherd, never one to lose an opportunity to cheer itself on for its gullible fanboys, promptly referred to this as "They have rammed the Sun Laurel, putting them in perilous danger, and simply abandoned them".

    So, what happened to the tanker? Well, unfortunately, the tankers emergency raft was destroyed, and because the tanker is smart enough to knows its laws and regs (although, apparently, it also carries illegal fuel to a fragile ecosystem) it is forced to head back to dock because it cannot legally navigate without safety equipment. Maritime agencies aren't stupid; they would not have a problem with the tanker finishing the re-fueling and then heading back to port, particularly if the alternative is to leave a vessel low on fuel in such dangerous and remote waters. However, it was fairly obvious that the Sea Shepherd was going to go out of their way to make an already difficult procedure much more dangerous, and it didn't much care how badly the environment would be damaged by any sort of catastrophe. Knowing this would not be a quick operation, they had no choice but to head back for a new lifeboat.

    This is what the Sea Shepherd means when they claim to have "escorted" the tanker out of Antarctic waters. Really, they have absolutely no shame left.

  • -2

    cleo

    On the subject of irrationality, it tickled me that the whalers ordered the SS Australian-registered ships to leave the Australian Antarctic Territory on the orders of the government of Japan.

    The hunt is apparently suspended for now (hopefully for the season), but if the whalers come back next season I doubt the Koreans will be willing to act as refuellers. It seems the Nisshin Maru smashed up the Sun Laurel's lifeboats then headed off north, leaving the refuelling ship to its own resources, with no lifeboats and with damage tot he superstructure and hull, in potentially dangerous icy waters. Talk about fine-weather friends.

  • 2

    cabadaje

    The Sea Shepherd claims have reached a level of silliness not seen since the Iraqi information minister debuted in the Gulf War.

    According to them, the Korean tanker sent the Sea Shepherd a message in a bottle (apparently, the Sea Shepherd considers lobbing bottles at other ships a form of communication) stating that "they (the Koreans) did not support how the Japanese were dealing with the situation", and that they (the Koreans) were "being held against their will". I don't know if this is true or not. I do know that it is unlikely that a company who has been regularly fueling the Japanese whaling fleet for years is unlikely to take the side of an extremist organization. Particularly when a ship from that organization intentionally put their tanker in immediate jeopardy, and caused several hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of damage. Particularly when they make it sound like the Koreans were helpless to do anything other than load up their tanker with illegal fuel, sail under duress all the way down to the Antarctic, forced to do what their company does for a living, i.e. re-fuel ships at sea, and could only be rescued and escorted home safely by the white knight that is the Sea Shepherd.

    The levels of arrogance there are astounding. But par for the course for the Sea Shepherd organization. Please read the infamous Bob Brown interview (because reading lets you notice some things that don't quite make sense if you just hear them rushing out in words). http://indymedia.org.au/2013/02/20/whaling-fleet-committed-multiple-breaches-of-international-law-says-sea-shepherd-director

    I will let you come to your own conclusion regarding the content and viewpoint, but there are a few points I would like to highlight:

    "Watercannon played on the ships and concussion grenades were lobbed on the ships from the Japanese Government escort vessel."

    Concussion grenades are military grade weapons, and using them on a civilian ship can be considered an act of war in the right circumstance. As we read the latest reports, we see these being described as stun grenades, percussion grenades, noise grenades, and lately, they haven't really made it to any current reports.

    "The Sea Shepherd ships are now escorting that tanker north with the whaling fleet holding off, but it is very dangerous."

    "Tagging along" isn't escorting, and there is absolutely nothing dangerous about sailing back to port on a ship without any damage to either its structure or machinery.

    These are Australian territorial waters. Tokyo has taken over Australia's territorial waters. It's time the Australian Government re-asserted itself.It should send naval vessels down there to reassert international law as well as domestic law.

    Well, the Australian government probably doesn't want people to confuse it with China.

    This is the worst incident we have seen certainly since the sinking of a Sea Shepherd ship by the Japanese fleet two years ago.

    Possibly the last man to not have heard about the Sea Shepherd intentionally scuttling its own ship (again, full of fuel-oil and toxics, in the fragile Antarctic ecosystem).

    "I am very concerned and alarmed that Japan has decided to become pirates in our territorial waters."

    Actions speak louder than words. We have video showing us the actions. We only have words for everything else.

    "Sea Shepherd is a nonviolent protector of the whales and they have gotten between the illegal South Korean tanker's trespass into Antarctic waters and this factory ship and the result has been escalating violence under directions from Tokyo from the Japanese whaling fleet."

    "Nonviolent" doesn't just mean that you are not actively violent (being actively violent would mean that you are throwing things, or intentionally causing damage, or...oh...). Causing violence through passive means is just as bad. Intentionally stepping out into traffic so that cars will swerve and crash into each other is not considered non-violent protest of the car industry.

    Journalist: But if there are injuries, if there are deaths from the ramming of these ships, who holds responsibility? Bob Brown: The responsibility must go for these waters to Australia's requirement to uphold international law. But the Australian Government, and the New Zealand Government, and the U.S. Government have all opted to turn a blind eye, to turn their back, not to send, a policing operation to uphold international law.

    This is getting to be scarily similar to terrorist talk. "We are not violent people! We have been forced to act by the inaction of the government! We will not be responsible for the deaths; their blood is on your hands!"

    So, at what point does the Sea Shepherd get held accountable for its actions? If someone got crushed when the little Bob Barker decided to play chicken with the massive Nisshan Maru, would the Japanese ship be responsible for not being able to change the laws of physics? Had the Nisshan Maru successfully hooked up to the tanker and was forced to do an emergency break-away due to the Bob Barker, would the Sea Shepherd be responsible for the hundreds of gallons of fuel-oil spilled? Is physically threatening, as in setting up an environmental disaster unless two giant ships veer off-course, a logical way to protect the environment? The Sea Shepherd keeps telling stories, yet their level of evidence has been getting smaller and smaller as their claims get larger and larger.

    We are now at a point where the Sea Shepherd actively endangered the fragile Antarctic ecosystem, and the Japanese backed away to avoid putting that environment at risk, despite having to suffer the loss of face, the loss of culture, the loss of income, or any other reason they have given over the last several decades to continue. They were willing to dump all that and walk away, even when they themselves were not in physical danger, but the environment was. The eco-system of the Southern Ocean, not just the whales, but the entire environment, was put in imminent danger by the Sea Shepherd, and they have claimed that not only where they in the right, should any accidents have occurred, and any lives lost, then it would not have been their fault, nor would it be in the future.

    At what point does even the staunchest believer begin to wonder if the ends do actually justify the means?

  • -2

    wtfjapan

    Japan has just suspended it whale hunt for this season V for Victory for SS, special snowflake thats turned into a avalanche. LOL

  • 2

    cabadaje

    @wtfjapan

    Japan has just suspended it whale hunt for this season

    Unless you have a source on that, no, they haven't. They have temporarily suspended it because their ships are low on fuel and can't chase after whales.

    V for Victory for SS, special snowflake thats turned into a avalanche. LOL

    Hardly. Go to the Sea Shepherd website. Take note of their claims of success. Then notice their charts on how whaling kills have been increasing over the years. Note how every year they claim they managed to chase away the Japanese from the sea, and yet the Japanese always seem to have so much whale meat.

    Take a look at their most current video. Look at how they are interrupting a fueling operation. Do you understand the significance of that? They intentionally got in the way of an operation where hundreds of gallons of fuel-oil where being transferred from ship to ship, and if they didn't go into a ship, they would be spilling into the ecosystem. Is that a victory? Threatening a massive fuel-oil spill if you don't get your way?

    No, it is indeed an avalanche. Out of control, utterly recklessly, destructive, and completely uncaring what it destroys in its rampage.

  • -3

    Scrote

    So the Japanese whalers take out an injunction preventing Sea Shepherd from approaching their ships. This injunction does not include the Sun Laurel. Next, the Japanese deliberately approach and ram Sea Shepherd ships near the Sun Laurel. Bizarre behaviour by the Japanese, to say the least.

    Still, it looks like it's game over for the "researchers" this year. Well done Sea Shepherd.

  • 3

    Heda_Madness

    Even if the season is over, this is actually far from over. The Japanese have filed a contempt of court against the SS for their interference in the Antarctic. Whilst their supporters on here claim that the US have no legal right to prevent them in Antarctica, crucially the SS do and even more importantly the US courts do. The SS will go to court and lose. And this will cost them a LOT of money.

    Secondly, if the Japanese claims are right (and history suggests they may well be) then the SS have caused damage on their ships. US organisation causing criminal damage = bankruptcy in the US courts.

    Thirdly, at what point can anyone support intentionally blockading the fuelling process and then trying to sabotage it. If I tried to stop you filling up your car at your local BP garage I would get arrested. Think about that and then think about the consequences of what they were doing in seas on the ocean. And say if you think that’s a good thing.

    And finally, I’m loathed to call anyone a terrorist. To me, that should be left to the likes of the IRA, Al Qaeda etc. However… when you use force and physical threats and danger to force your will on someone, I’m struggling to think of a word that describes it.

    As I said, this isn’t over but I really don’t see how the SS can be celebrating.

  • -3

    smithinjapan

    USNInJapan2: "Of course we should believe Sea Shepherd's claims. After all, they'd never do anything dangerous for impact and attention would they?"

    Nor would the Japanese whalers, I guess. But a fool would believe them just as quick.

  • -2

    smithinjapan

    Heda_Madness: "The Japanese have filed a contempt of court against the SS for their interference in the Antarctic."

    You mean in Australian waters.

  • -2

    smithinjapan

    Heda: "Thirdly, at what point can anyone support intentionally blockading the fuelling process and then trying to sabotage it."

    While the Japanese ships ram, throw concussion grenades, fire acoustic weapons at helicoptors, etc.

    "If I tried to stop you filling up your car at your local BP garage I would get arrested. Think about that and then think about the consequences of what they were doing in seas on the ocean..."

    Do you listen to yourself? Are they at a gas station IN JAPAN down in Australian territory?

    Man when you guys are desperate for comparisons you really are desperate for comparisons!

  • 0

    Heda_Madness

    Are they at a gas station IN JAPAN down in Australian territory?

    Just because Australia (and 4 or 5 other countries) say it's Australian territory does not make it Australian territory. There's a huge reason that the Australian government aren't taking the whalers to international court over this. And that is that no-one thinks it's their territory.

  • -1

    cabadaje

    Nor would the Japanese whalers, I guess. But a fool would believe them just as quick.

    A fool would, sure. Intelligent people, on the other hand, would look at the evidence and see where it leads them. The Sea Shepherd, an organization that relies almost exclusively on volunteer help and donations, as well as a TV show, does indeed have a reason to do things and make claims that bring in the viewers. Japanese whalers, on the other hand, would like nothing more than to carry out their jobs in relative obscurity. They most certainly do not want to be front page material.

    You mean in Australian waters.

    According to Australians. Who have gone out of their way to not have to be on site to enforce their public stance. And whose claims are not recognized by the US, who are the ones dealing with the Contempt of Court charge.

  • 1

    Heda_Madness

    No, I mean international waters.

  • 0

    Heda_Madness

    While the Japanese ships ram, throw concussion grenades, fire acoustic weapons at helicoptors, etc.

    From the SS PR team. Remember what the SS PR team after Ady Gil? And how much of those claims stood the test of time? The answer is none.

  • 0

    cabadaje

    @Scrote

    So the Japanese whalers take out an injunction preventing Sea Shepherd from approaching their ships. This injunction does not include the Sun Laurel.

    I think you will find the US courts to be supremely humorless when it comes to coy little games like that. If they specifically tell you to stay away from this ship because you are a creating a dangerous situation, they aren't going to have much sympathy for you deliberately getting in the way of that ship when it is attempting to re-fuel. That would be like standing in the doorway and claiming that you aren't actually preventing people from getting out, you just happen to be standing there, so you are innocent.

    Next, the Japanese deliberately approach and ram Sea Shepherd ships near the Sun Laurel.

    Not according to the video. The Japanese deliberately approach the tanker, the Sea Shepherd ship gets in between, and to the surprise of absolutely no one involved, there is a collision.

    Bizarre behaviour by the Japanese, to say the least.

    Bizarre behaviour is a preference to be confused by fiction instead of accepting reality. If we attempt to believe the fiction that a Japanese vessel has the maneuverability to attack a much, much, smaller vessel, and that it does so in the most dangerous possible situation while alongside a fuel tanker, along with a video of the Bob Barker facing both the tanker and the Nisshan Maru (meaning that it was on a course directly headed towards the two much larger ships), and additionally believe that this was all done intentionally, then we have to be confused at the increasingly blatant inconsistencies in the story.

    Alternatively, if we choose to abandon the fiction, and just look at the reality of the situation, suddenly the confusion vanishes:

    Two large ships, underway, in a refueling operation. Much smaller ship pointing in their direction, either underway or recently stopped (or, I suppose, it could have been moving in the same direction, and then inexplicably stopped and did a 180 spin). There are no circumstances under which the smaller ship is in the right. Not under the law of mass tonnage, not under navigation laws, not under any conservation and environmental protection laws, nowhere is that sort of maneuver consider either appropriate or anything less than reckless endangerment. It doesn't matter which side of the whaling issue you are on.

    Whether you choose to be confused or not is up to you. But at least you should acknowledge that the very reason you use that expression (albeit sarcastically) is precisely because the claim makes no sense. Something in there isn't quite right. You have chosen not to question the issue and simply believe one side of the story. That does not, however, make the video disappear.

  • 1

    cabadaje

    What I find continuously amusing in all this is that the Sea Shepherd ramming the other vessels is considered so normal that it isn't even reported in the news anymore. You don't hear about the Bob Barker not just ramming the tanker alongside, but holding fast and pushing it outwards. You don't hear about the first successful interception, when they got the timing right, and literally wedged themselves between the two ships and physically pushed them apart, before they had a chance to get drawn together. You certainly don't hear about the tanker being put in danger when it was surrounded by all the SS ships (seriously, that's not piracy? Surrounding a foreign ships, forcing it to a halt, threatening its safety, what, do they have to wear eyepatches and use peglegs or fly the Jolly...oh...).

    No, you don't notice these things unless you watch the videos and see the photos.

    No, the only thing you hear about is when the Sea Shepherd screwed up, got bulldozed, and blamed the other guy for it.

  • -3

    USNinJapan2

    smithinjapan

    You mean in Australian waters.

    Based on your history of level-headed posts here on JT and the respect you normally show for the UN and the 'international community' I'm frankly surprised that you support Australia's rather selfish and unrecognized claim over the Australian Antarctic Territory.

  • -2

    SwissToni

    Cabadaje, people do notice things, even having watched the videos. Disappointingly for you I suppose, their interpretation must be different to yours. But whine on, hopefully the hunt is over and sea shepherd have shifted plenty of funds out of the US....just in case. Chalk up another PR win for sea shepherd and more embarrassment for the whalers.

  • -1

    cabadaje

    @SwissToni

    Cabadaje, people do notice things, even having watched the videos.

    "Even" having watched the videos?

    As in "I already decided what I was going to see, and even watching these videos is unlikely to change my mind"?

    Disappointingly for you I suppose, their interpretation must be different to yours.

    Very disappointing indeed. It's a sad day when barbarians, violence, and threats are cheered over the rule of law, compromise, and tolerance.

    But whine on, hopefully the hunt is over and sea shepherd have shifted plenty of funds out of the US....just in case.

    I will "whine on". I will whine on about how the Sea Shepherd's own charts show that they have been ineffective at lowering the amount of whales captured. I will whine on about the undisputed fact that The only thing the Japanese have done to the Southern ocean is hunt a non-endangered whale, while the Sea Shepherd already intentionally polluted the Antarctic environment once, and today threatened to do so again on a much, much, larger scale.

    I will also whine about how some of us include links to videos and discuss points in those videos, while others simply repeat themselves and neither support their points nor counter the ones presented. I will whine about how people seem to believe that certain absolutes, such as momentum and drag, seem to be a matter of interpretation as opposed to physics. For that matter, I will whine about how some people seem to be under the impression that their opinion is actually an interpretation.

    I will whine like the Australian government whined to the ICJ about the Japanese whalers. I will whine like New Zealand whined about the proceeding filed by the Australian government. I will continue to whine as long as non-criminals are accused of crime and actual criminals are cheered for their violence.

    Because, Swiss, what you call "whining" is referred to as "talking" by some, and even "reasoning" depending on the format. It involves communication, it involves understanding, and it involves logic. Whining is limited to the emotional range. If you find yourself making claims that have not been validated, or making assumptions simply because you believe they are true, or worse of all, trying to shut people up as if discussion were some sort of contest for victory as opposed to a search for reason, then you are dealing with emotions. And emotions have never had a good history of solving complex problems.

  • 1

    cabadaje

    AriesKJJ

    @cabadaje Let me ask you this are you upset because only 1 whale was killed and you really like when animals die ... or because you're an ineffective shill who just lost a job?

    None of the above. What disgusts me about this is the sheer irrationality, the utter abandonment of reason and logic in favor of good TV ratings. Regardless of the position one holds, the ability to reason and rational should not change. If one is capable of looking at evidence objectively, if one is capable of determining probable behavior based on past behavior it is an absolute crime to the intellect to refuse to do so simply because the particular topic in question is in or out of favor. My reactions to the Sea Shepherd and its supporters are not markedly different than my reaction to China and its supporters. Most of the perceived difference is in whether you agree or do not agree with my position.

    It doesn't offend your sense of logic that the Sea Shepherd intentionally risked a fuel-oil spill in the Antarctic in the name of saving whales?

    You do not see any discrepancy in the Japanese ships being referred to as poachers and criminals, and yet not a single government bothers to show up at their known destination to arrest them?

    You don't find anything the slightest bit duplicitous about the Sea Shepherd claiming success after success, and yet this is the first year that the whale catch has actually been lower than the last?

    BTW 'whining' Not something to be proud of.

    Intellect, however, is. If for no other reason that it gives people the ability to read subtext.

    Looks like that's a rap JT doesn't even have a story on the front page anymore, almost like they are concealing something. Have fun ...... ☠

    Time marches on, indeed.

  • -4

    SwissToni

    Cabadaje, "As in "I already decided what I was going to see, and even watching these videos is unlikely to change my mind"?"

    Well, I'll tell you what I'll do with that one, I'll speak for myself.

    I don't agree with your interpretation. I saw the Bob Barker and Steve Irwin standing off to the left and rear of the Sun Laurel, effectively blocking any refuel. The captain of the Nisshin Maru took the decision to attempt to ram both ships aside to take possesion of the refueling position. In the attempt the Nisshin Maru caused damage to itself, the Sea Shepherd ships and importantly, the Sun Laurel leaving it without a lifeboat and potentially causing a major oil spill. Demonstrably irresponsible behaviour by the captain of the factory ship and no doubt the reason he's been told to stop the hunt by the Japanese authorities.

    The figures published by the institute for Cetacean Research show a clear drop off in whale catch, particularly since Sea Shepherds active denial campaign. Those are the figures I've drawn my opinions from.

    I think you'll find I haven't made any claims, I've simply given my opinion and observations. If that frustrates you, then I'm afraid you'll remain frustrated. The game of circular argument and insult continues, Im not going to do that with you. I would encourage all to do a little of their own research and form their own opinions and not allow you and other ranters to do their thinking for them.

    Hopefully Sea Shepherds campaign has disappointed the whalers Antarctic hunt for another year. Well done!

  • -1

    Heda_Madness

    Any of the SS fans care to guess how they will do here... I'd imagine the video evidence, from the SS, will be pretty damning for the SS

    On 17 December 2012 the U.S. Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals issued an Injunction Order enjoining Sea Shepherd, Paul Watson and anyone acting in concert with them from physically attacking the Japanese research vessels or any person on them and from navigating in a manner that is likely to endanger the safe navigation at sea of any such vessel. The Injunction Order also prohibits them from approaching any vessel engaged by the Institute of Cetacean Research (ICR) or Kyodo Senpaku (KS) any closer than 500 yards (about 457 meters) when the research vessels are navigating on the open sea.

    The ICR and KS filed a Motion for Contempt against Sea Shepherd for approaching the research vessels last January in violation of the U.S. Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals Injunction Order. The ICR and KS will provide the Court with additional evidence concerning the 15 and 20 February obstruction actions by Sea Shepherd.

  • -6

    AriesKJJ

    @cabadaje - Zero chance Im reading all that drivel

    thousands of lives were put at risk OMG !!! ? Now even for a brutal shill like you, you must realize ships aren't cities. They are the big floaty thing that carry 10's of people.

  • 4

    Heda_Madness

    I love how the SS supporters vote negative to a news report. Not an opinion but a proven fact...

    It must be like what stroke victims feel like. They have an opinion but due to their severe aneurism they are unable to express it so they just click bad.

    The fact is the US court told them they couldn't get within 500 yards. The fact is they lost their appeal. The fact is THEIR video proves they ignored that court order

    So once again I ask, how do you think this is going to materialise?

  • 0

    Houseinsect

    Prejudiced people defining other people's culinary preference. This outdated close minded thinking belongs in a historic garbage can.

  • -1

    Thunderbird2

    BBC have a video showing the factory ship and a couple of SS ships getting intimate on the high seas... be warned though it shows a whale being dragged onto a ship - sick-making.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-21528711

  • -1

    cabadaje

    @SwissToni

    Well, I'll tell you what I'll do with that one, I'll speak for myself.

    Excellent. That is all I can and have ever asked of anyone.

    I don't agree with your interpretation. I saw the Bob Barker and Steve Irwin standing off to the left and rear of the Sun Laurel, effectively blocking any refuel.

    But the Steve Irwin didn't stay there, did it? For whatever reason (and I suspect it is because the captain knew that a vessel the size of the Nisshin Maru was not going to be able to come to a complete stop before a collision), the Steve Irwin did decide to move away and avoided being part of the collision.

    Now, can we agree that parking your vessel next to a tanker that is attempting a refuel is, at a minimum, dangerous, as the captain of the Steve Irwin hopefully realized before his ship got hit?

    The captain of the Nisshin Maru took the decision to attempt to ram both ships aside to take possesion of the refueling position.

    Wait...what video are we talking about? Remember that the Sea Shepherd made multiple attacks on the refueling; they just complained about the last one when they got hit.

    The ICR released the video from the Nisshin Maru as it made its final approach to the tanker. In that video, we see the Steve Irwin alongside the tanker, and the Bob Barker to the rear and running parallel to the Nisshin Maru.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HdYgJ5N4u0k

    In the collision video from the Sea Shepherd,

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QvsLkLD32ME

    The Steve Irwin had moved away from the tanker, and the Bob Barker is now directly in front of the Nisshin Maru. It would not have been physically possible for the Nisshin Maru to have rammed both ships, as the Steve Irwin wasn't anywhere close, and the Bob Barker was along side (large vessels are notoriously bad at drifting).

    We can see in the video that the Bob Barker surged ahead a little too early...No, wait, let me correct myself--the Nisshin Maru video with the Bob Barker alongside cuts out and then in the Sea Shepherd video we see both ships now even with the tanker, with the Bob Barker directly in front of the Nisshin Maru. We do have pictures (I haven't found a video, if one exists) of the Bob Barker doing this:

    http://www.icrwhale.org/gpandsea-img415ENG.html

    Note how the Bob Barker is going full speed while the two other vessels are at minimum headway. They are doing this precisely to reduce the force of the drag between the two ships, so they don't get sucked together. The Bob Barker, jumping in between full speed pretty much blew that plan out of the water.

    So, now the Bob Barker is exactly where the Steve Irwin didn't want to be for precisely the reason that we see in the video. The Nisshin Maru is now getting sucked towards the tanker and we can see the captain ordering full speed to try and avoid a collision by looking behind the ship and seeing the now hard churning water. We know he wasn't going full speed before because he was matching the tanker (so they could dock for refueling); even though we couldn't see the Nisshin Maru's wake, we could see the tanker's wake, and the tanker was at minimal speed, barely any wash behind it.

    Unfortunately, at that point it was too late. We can see in the Sea Shepherd video that the tanker is now barely ten feet away from the tanker, and as it attempts to veer away, the Bob Barker, who was no match for the drag of the huge vessel, crashes into it. Attempt to veer away failed, the captain very wisely cuts the engines and the Nisshin Maru succumbs to the laws of physics and gets dragged back into the tanker.

    We see the Nisshin Maru succumb to the laws of physics and slowly drift it's way over to the tanker. Without engines on and with the two other ships still moving forward, it seems fairly evident that the captain of the Nisshin Maru was hoping his ship could fall back fast enough to avoid colliding with the tanker and with the tiny little ship that he was sure was probably down there somewhere as well, assuming it was still afloat. It almost worked, too. Just as it looks like they are clear, the two ships list towards each other again, and the davits get clipped.

    Can we agree that this long slow list and scrape of the Nisshin Maru along the side of the tanker cannot be referred to as "ramming"? That it is almost the polar opposite of ramming, in that the two vessels are trying to move away from each other?

    In the attempt the Nisshin Maru caused damage to itself, the Sea Shepherd ships and importantly, the Sun Laurel leaving it without a lifeboat and potentially causing a major oil spill.

    Attempt to do what, Swiss? To ram two ships it was not physically capable of ramming? Moving at bare ahead speed? You kind of jumped from "I see two ships." to "The Nisshin Maru rammed them." Is there anything that influenced your interpretation?

    Demonstrably irresponsible behaviour by the captain of the factory ship and no doubt the reason he's been told to stop the hunt by the Japanese authorities.

    Yes, very irresponsible behavior, if that's what he actually did. The videos don't bear that out, however.

    I think you'll find I haven't made any claims, I've simply given my opinion and observations. If that frustrates you, then I'm afraid you'll remain frustrated.

    In and of itself, no, it doesn't frustrate me (although please realize that your opinions are not derived from your observations: You cannot observe two ships and derive that a third ship chose to ram them. there are other factors there beyond your observations that are influencing your opinion). At a minimum, you are making an effort to think it through.

    The game of circular argument and insult continues, Im not going to do that with you.

    Good. I don't tolerate it either.

    I would encourage all to do a little of their own research and form their own opinions and not allow you and other ranters to do their thinking for them.

    I would encourage all to not immediately dismiss any opinions that disagree with your own as mere ranting, even if they do actually happen to be in "rant" format.

  • 0

    cabadaje

    @AriesKJJ

    @cabadaje - Zero chance Im reading all that drivel

    Wow, and that's not even close to the normal size of my posts!

    Hey, your call. No one is forcing you to do anything.

    Least of all to agree with someone else's opinion's on what is right and wrong.

    • Moderator

      Readers, please keep the discussion civil.

  • 0

    SwissToni

    Cabadaje, "Now, can we agree that parking your vessel next to a tanker that is attempting a refuel is, at a minimum, dangerous".

    Perhaps we can agree that deciding to shove two ships aside to force access to a tanker is dangerous? That's what I saw.

  • 0

    cabadaje

    @SwissToni

    Perhaps we can agree that deciding to shove two ships aside to force access to a tanker is dangerous? That's what I saw.

    Where did you see this? Can you give me a link?

  • -1

    SwissToni

    "I would encourage all to not immediately dismiss any opinions that disagree with your own as mere ranting, even if they do actually happen to be in "rant" format."

    While I agree opinions shouldn't simply be dismissed I see noone wanting to trawl through an emotional rant full of misdirection and repeated rhetoric. I understand your frustration but if you want to be taken seriously I suggest a change of format.

  • 0

    cabadaje

    @AriesKJJ

    thousands of lives were put at risk OMG !!! ? Now even for a brutal shill like you, you must realize ships aren't cities. They are the big floaty thing that carry 10's of people.

    Ships, what? Weren't you talking about whales?

    The good news is ... only 1 whale was killed in the Southern Ocean Sanctuary this year and all whaling vessels are headed North. Millions of yen were once again wasted but hundreds of lives were not. The Japan gov can likely stop paying their shills now. ( who were a waste of money to begin with and couldn't win an argument with a stuttering monkey)

    I was under the impression that the hundreds of lives you were referring to were whales. I extended it to include all the animals that live in the Southern Sea which would be affected by a fuel spill.

    My mistake, I suppose, but...who were the hundreds of lives that would have been wasted had they been allowed to fishing the last 18 days of the season?

  • -1

    cabadaje

    @SwissToni

    While I agree opinions shouldn't simply be dismissed I see noone wanting to trawl through an emotional rant full of misdirection and repeated rhetoric.

    There was no misdirection. Nor is ranting a normal mode of communication for myself.

    I understand your frustration but if you want to be taken seriously I suggest a change of format.

    The rant was the change of format. And it ended some time ago.

    Were you able to determine how these ships came to shove each other?

  • -2

    SwissToni

    Cabadaje, I've seen the same publicly available videos everyone has access to from multiple news websites and of course I reviewed the link you posted. From the pictures I did manage to identify the Nishin Maru manoeuvring itself between the Sea Shepherd ships standing off the Sun Laurel. I did manage to identify the Nishin Maru coming into contact with Sea Shepherd and the Korean tanker. I interpreted the Nishin Maru's acts as belligerent following an active decision by the man in control, but that's a reasonable assumption given the history between the two sides and the Nisshin Maru's regular need for fuel. I have also assumed it was the captain that took the decision but I will confess I'm not au fait with procedure on the Japanese whalers so I suppose he could conceivably have been asleep and one of his crew had a sudden fit of pique. I suppose that will come out in the enquiry once the ships have returned to Japan. If you interpret differently perhaps you should revisit the material with a more open mind.

    I doubt we'll ever be 100% sure unless the Japanese authorities release the results of their enquiry. What do you think the chances are of that?

  • -5

    SwissToni

    "There was no misdirection. Nor is ranting a normal mode of communication for myself."

    That's no doubt why the moderator asked you to keep the discussion civil.

    Night night all.

  • -3

    wtfjapan

    @cabbage only a few weeks to go in the season and japan have caught stuff all whales, season is basically over for them, and many millions yen down the toilet once again, another victory for Special Snowflake anyway you want to look and it, GO SS!! LOL

  • -3

    wtfjapan

    @cabbage Japans target quota is 1000 whales/year theyd be lucky if they caught that in the last three years. LOL

  • 1

    Kobuta Chan

    Bob Brown wants Australian Government to send Police and Custom Ship to that area. However, Australian Channel 9 News reader asked fugitive Paul Watson "Do you want Australian Government to send Police and Custom to Southern Antarctic Water?". He replied to News reader "No". Because, Australian police has to arrest him if police was called in.

    What their ships were doing between Waling ship and Fuel Tanker in first place? They don't obey US court order to stay away 500 yards from waling ships. It's their fault anyway. Tony Burke refused to send Police and Custom ship to southern Anttarctic water because he understood UN doesn't recognize as what Australian claimed as Australian Southern Antarctic Territorial Water. So Bob Brown let Bob Brown cry.

  • 0

    cabadaje

    @Swisstoni

    Cabadaje, I've seen the same publicly available videos everyone has access to from multiple news websites and of course I reviewed the link you posted. From the pictures I did manage to identify the Nishin Maru manoeuvring itself between the Sea Shepherd ships standing off the Sun Laurel.

    Okay, good, but no one is arguing about that, considering that the Nisshin Maru was trying to re-fuel with the Sun Laurel and all.

    The claim you made was that the Nisshin Maru attempted to ram both the Bob Barker and the Steve Irwin aside to get to the fuel tanker. I pointed out how we can see that the Bob Barker was alongside the Nisshin Maru, and we have pictures of it suddenly surging ahead and getting in front of it at the last moment (which it had already done earlier, in a previous attempt by the Nisshin Maru to dock for fuel). I don't see the Steve Irwin anywhere in the collision video. I am asking you to explain how you came to your claim that the Nisshin Maru intentionally rammed both ships.

    I did manage to identify the Nishin Maru coming into contact with Sea Shepherd and the Korean tanker.

    Okay...again, good, but again, no one is arguing about that. Do you agree with the Seas Shepherd claim that the Nisshin Maru "rammed" the tanker, with both the intention and the increased speed that "ramming" implies?

    I interpreted the Nishin Maru's acts as belligerent following an active decision by the man in control, but that's a reasonable assumption given the history between the two sides and the Nisshin Maru's regular need for fuel.

    Is it?

    In the history of this conflict, have we seen the Japanese vessels begin a physical confrontation with the whalers? Have we seen them ever launch a preliminary attack on the whaling ships? Have the Japanese vessels ever actively targeted and attempted to ram any of the SS ships?

    How about the Sea Shepherd? Have they ever begun a physical confrontation with the Japanese whaling ships? Have they ever launched an attack on Japanese vessels prior to being attacked themselves (i.e. self-defense). Have they ever actively targeted and attempted to ram any of the Japanese vessels?

    I do commend you for looking at their behaviour instead of the claims made by either side, as behaviour is often a far truer way to determine probabilities than claims are (people are notoriously bad at being subjective). Anyone can make claims and flip-flop on them at a moments notice, however behaviour is a far, far, more difficult thing to change (and even when people think they have changed it, they usually keep the same behaviour and just change the content). However, looking at their past history, I am having difficulty seeing how a sudden shift in behaviour on the part of the Japanese vessels is more probable than a continuity of the same behaviour is on the part of the Sea Shepherd (who openly admit to using this strategy, and used it on at least one previous occasion captured in film in this specific incident).

    I have also assumed it was the captain that took the decision but I will confess I'm not au fait with procedure on the Japanese whalers so I suppose he could conceivably have been asleep and one of his crew had a sudden fit of pique.

    A reasonable enough assumption, I suppose. Although, again, not seemingly supported by the data we actually have.

    I suppose that will come out in the enquiry once the ships have returned to Japan. If you interpret differently perhaps you should revisit the material with a more open mind.

    I am not sure how much more open I can be, short of intentionally concluding the guilt prior to reviewing the data.

    I doubt we'll ever be 100% sure unless the Japanese authorities release the results of their enquiry. What do you think the chances are of that?

    The same as that of any of the major countries doing the same. Pretty high, although by the time it actually happens (years from now), few will care enough to find the information. After all, we have people here regularly bringing up the court ruling of past years between all the maritime and law enforcement agencies and the Sea Shepherd.

    That's no doubt why the moderator asked you to keep the discussion civil.

    Earlier you spoke of having an open mind. If you see a post which has one comment from one person referring to the other person's post as "drivel", and you have the other person replying that it is their choice to read it, let alone agree with it, and no one is forcing them to, which comment do you believe a moderator would consider as uncivil?

  • -3

    cleo

    In the history of this conflict, have we seen the Japanese vessels begin a physical confrontation with the whalers?

    Ady Gil.

    Have we seen them ever launch a preliminary attack on the whaling ships?

    Ady Gil.

    Have the Japanese vessels ever actively targeted and attempted to ram any of the SS ships?

    Ady Gil.

    I am having difficulty seeing how a sudden shift in behaviour on the part of the Japanese vessels is more probable than a continuity of the same behaviour

    No sudden shift, more an escalation of what has gone before. Someone somewhere likened it to 'road rage'. Someone on the Nisshin Maru is pee'd off at the prospect of having to go home without the promised piles of cardboard boxes of salted whalemeat to finance their new houses and cars.

  • -2

    SwissToni

    Cabadaje, I like your line of enquiry, edited for efficacy I'd say. It's clear from the pictures that the Sun Laurel is surrounded by Sea Shepherd vessels standing off to the rear and sides is it not? Care to explain how the Nisshin Maru got amongst all those vessels without an active decision by it's master to do so? The laws of physics are well known, as are the mechanical relationships between engine, propeller, wheel and rudder.

    In terms of behavioural analysis. I think there is much evidence of both sides animosity toward each other, not least the whalers eagerness to respond to Sea Shepherds active denial campaigns. And in recent years as Sea Shepherds number have increased and their ability to track the whalers has improved, there is plenty of evidence of the whalers growing impatience, or some might say, desperation and willingness to escalate the level of conflict.

    Don't play the whalers as innocents, it won't wash.

  • -4

    SwissToni

    Cabadeje, ""I suppose that will come out in the enquiry once the ships have returned to Japan. If you interpret differently perhaps you should revisit the material with a more open mind. "I am not sure how much more open I can be, short of intentionally concluding the guilt prior to reviewing the data.""

    Are you somehow admitting you're part of the Japanese whaling establishment?

  • -2

    eyeonwarson

    Another thing about the videos regarding the listing / rolling of the Barker to port - if you look closely at the foremast of the Barker, youll see the smoke pouring from the stack as the person on the bridge slams the throttle on the bow thrusters - I wouldnt be in the least surprised that Hammerstedt was operating the PORT side bow thruster to keep the bow of the barker at the hull of the Laurel even as hes being pushed to port by the N Maru & Id like to see video looking down on the Barker from the N Maru to see if this what actually happened. Also note the Yokohama fender on the portside deck of the Laurel - I wouldnt be surprised if it was pushed onto deck by the Barker Will be interesting to read about the contempt of court proceedings in the US shortly - SSCS are up Sh** creek without the proverbial paddle with that one.

  • 0

    cabadaje

    @cleo

    Ady Gil.

    The Ady Gil had to travel all the way down to Antarctica, for the publicly stated purpose of confronting the whalers. They went to the whalers; the whalers didn't go them.

    Ady Gil.

    The Ady Gil used the potato cannon, threw the buteryc acid bottles, and dropped fouling chains in front of the whaler for several days prior to the incident.

    Ady Gil.

    According to the courts, and acknowledged by Peter Bethune, the Ady Gil was guilty of not maintaining a proper lookout. Considering that his stated purpose for being there was to intercept the whaling ship, and that the whaling ship was about 40 times the tonnage of the Ady Gil, that's a little bit like riding your bicycle, stopping in the middle of the street in front of a large truck, and then accusing it of actively targeting and ramming you.

    Cleo, doesn't it bother you that you believe a single word can dismiss any and all arguments that oppose your belief, without the need of explanation or rational? You don't find that sort of thing...a bit close-minded, or maybe overly limiting of yourself?

    No sudden shift, more an escalation of what has gone before. Someone somewhere likened it to 'road rage'. Someone on the Nisshin Maru is pee'd off at the prospect of having to go home without the promised piles of cardboard boxes of salted whalemeat to finance their new houses and cars.

    I think you are giving the profitability of whaling (or any kind of fishing for that matter) a bit too much credit, if you believe these fishermen are going to be purchasing new houses and cars even if they managed a decent haul.

    In all cases, we aren't talking about a car, where all it takes is a flick of the wrist to swerve sharply at another vehicle next to, or a tap of the brakes to come to a sudden halt. We are talking about an 8000 ton vessel pushing through the water at a relatively low speed. If this was road rage, it was certainly a rather long and slow version of it, and the captain must have been able to dispense with it remarkably quickly to have taken the emergency measures that he took.

  • 1

    cabadaje

    @SwissToni

    Cabadaje, I like your line of enquiry, edited for efficacy I'd say. It's clear from the pictures that the Sun Laurel is surrounded by Sea Shepherd vessels standing off to the rear and sides is it not? Care to explain how the Nisshin Maru got amongst all those vessels without an active decision by it's master to do so?

    I...I just wrote two ridiculously long posts about that specific point...

    Is there any specific part you want further clarification on?

    The laws of physics are well known, as are the mechanical relationships between engine, propeller, wheel and rudder.

    Yes, I agree. Is there any part of my explanation where you believe this applies in a way contrary to what I proposed?

    In terms of behavioural analysis. I think there is much evidence of both sides animosity toward each other, not least the whalers eagerness to respond to Sea Shepherds active denial campaigns. And in recent years as Sea Shepherds number have increased and their ability to track the whalers has improved, there is plenty of evidence of the whalers growing impatience, or some might say, desperation and willingness to escalate the level of conflict.

    I would agree. Anyone would get pissed off at having a bunch of hooligans harassing them, vandalizing their property, and threatening their livelihood. Imagine a salesperson from the US having to deal with Japanese delinquents every time he sets foot in Japan, throwing rancid butter on him, ramming his car, stealing or destroying his products. It would be almost abnormal for anyone not to get incensed at such behavior.

    However, here we have a situation where this person has been regularly harassed by the criminals. And the criminals have been regularly escalating their actions, to the point that now they are making accusations that have been found to be false, and even attempted to frame him for the destruction of something they did themselves, in addition to their publicly stated intent to continue harassing him, continue vandalizing him, and continue physically attacking him.

    Now, this group claims that this guy rammed their cars. They claim that he intentionally rammed them, intentionally repeated the action, then turned and rammed the gas pump next to them. There is a video of this happening, and from what you can see, if ramming is being done, it is being done in a ridiculously slow manner. The hooligans, incidentally, have no problem whatsoever telling you that they did in fact, spent the previous few hours ramming him and the fuel pump, and they have pictures of that too. They take pride in it, as a matter of fact. They accuse the foreigner of road rage.

    The accusation...that doesn't raise a skeptical eyebrow? Even in a situation where by all rights and expectations we would not be surprised at all to see road rage, we don't actually see it, in fact, the evidence indicates that it wasn't present. Meaning that even if there was road rage, it wasn't actually acted on?

    Actions speak louder than words. What the intent of the whalers or the SS are, that you can read about on their respective websites (hint: One advocates and celebrates the results of their tactics, and the other just wishes they would be let the **** alone). What matters is their behaviour: None one cares if you are pissed off at the world as long as you don't swerve your car at others, just like no one cares if you are happy and smiling as you step into traffic and watch all the cars crash into each other in their attempts to avoid you.

    Don't play the whalers as innocents, it won't wash.

    Innocence has nothing to do with it. I sincerely doubt they are any more or less innocent than you or I. This is about behavior, not about judgement. It's about what they do, not about what you think they are.

  • 1

    cabadaje

    @SwissToni

    Are you somehow admitting you're part of the Japanese whaling establishment?

    Hmm...several points here...

    Okay, first--if I was admitting I was part of the Japanese whaling establishment, I would do so in the following manner: "I am part of the Japanese whaling establishment, and my job is yadda yadda".

    Second, I would do so because I would find absolutely no shame or conflict in doing so, whereas one can almost taste the disdain in your voice, as if you were talking about someone having porn on their company computer or something.

    Third, if I was part of the Japanese whaling establishment, I would demand a pay check. Even though I spend roughly less than a couple of hours a day responding to these comments, if you can get paid for doing something, it would be rather silly to do it for free.

    Fourth, and possibly most important, HOW, in the name of any and all comprehension of the English language or base reasoning systems, could you possibly read a sentence stating that one can't see any other alternative unless one decides the conclusion beforehand, and interpret that as evidence of working for the whaling industry?

    • Moderator

      Readers, please keep the discussion civil and do not go around in circles.

  • -2

    cabadaje

    @eyeonwarson

    I wouldnt be in the least surprised that Hammerstedt was operating the PORT side bow thruster to keep the bow of the barker at the hull of the Laurel even as hes being pushed to port by the N Maru

    Not...so sure about that. Towards the end of the video, after the collision, we see the Nisshin Maru finally clear and able to veer away from the two ships, and the Bob Barker is in the middle, even with the keels. If it had been pushing the tanker, I suspect it would have been further up, as it wouldn't have gotten caught by the drag between the two boats and pulled towards the Nisshin Maru. I do see the smoke, but I can't tell if it's from the bow thrusters, or if it's from the captain realizing that there is an imminent collision and they need to get away.

  • -4

    cleo

    I think you are giving the profitability of whaling (or any kind of fishing for that matter) a bit too much credit, if you believe these fishermen are going to be purchasing new houses and cars even if they managed a decent haul.

    For the people on the ships, whaling is very profitable; they can take home up to two tons of prime meat from under the table.

    http://www.greenpeace.org/international/en/campaigns/oceans/whaling/ending-japanese-whaling/Tokyo-Two-Trial/Key-facts-heard-in-the-trial-of-Junichi-Sato--Toru-Suzuki/

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2010/jun/14/whistleblower-expose-japanese-whaling

  • -2

    eyeonwarson

    @ cabadaje

    I`m Referring to this one http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y6zdl4bOY2c

    The Maru is pushing the Barker to port - the bow thruster stack is idling till around 0:14 or so then you see the smoke increase considerably as the barker is slightly pushed over.( Incidentally, the Barker was nowhere near capsizing, far from it, Hammerstedts ridiculous claim that they were 15 seconds away from rolling over is just the usual dramatisation.)

    It certainly looks like hes using the Port side bow thruster to keep the Barkers bow into the Laurel, even when hes being pushed by the Maru, which in terms of seamanship is truly terrifying ( Im listing to one side so Ill help list the ship even more with the thrusters )

    It will all come out in the Marine inquiries by Oz and Nz anyway

    For the people on the ships, whaling is very profitable; they can take home up to two tons of prime meat from under the table

    That`s not important in the discussion - the discussion is about whaling by Japan, not the crew, otherwise we could argue about Paul Watsons $121,000 salary from SSCS in 2010 and how many houses and cars he has :)

  • -1

    cabadaje

    @cleo

    For the people on the ships, whaling is very profitable; they can take home up to two tons of prime meat from under the table.

    If you wish to believe that, it's up to you. As we have gotten to the point where your claim that whaling is profitable for individual people because two people were convicted of stealing expensive meat from their catch, I don't see further merit in continuing.

    @eyeonwarson

    I`m Referring to this one http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y6zdl4bOY2c

    Ah, excellent, I hadn't seen that one. Yes, now I can see what you are saying. I am still a little unsure, as I would expect to see some roiling water off the port bow, but there is no doubt that something made the captain rev the engine.

    It will all come out in the Marine inquiries by Oz and Nz anyway

    Particularly considering that the SS made a Mayday call. That's not the kind of thing you get off lightly with.

  • -2

    eyeonwarson

    @ cabadaje

    Ah, excellent, I hadn't seen that one. Yes, now I can see what you are saying. I am still a little unsure, as I would expect to see some roiling water off the port bow, but there is no doubt that something made the captain rev the engine.

    This is why I would like to see the view from the NM when this happened - the view from the Simon blocks any view of bow thruster wash.

    One small point, I doubt if Hammerstedt is a licensed Captain - we all know Watson isn`t :

    *A ship's captain must have a master's license or certificate, issued by the ship's flag state, or a state licensing authority if operating within "non-federal" waters. Various types of licenses exist, specifying the maximum vessel size indicated in gross tonnage and in what geographic areas the captain can operate. *

    The Bob Barker is Flagged in the Cook Islands currently

    SSCS boats are usually classified / flagged as private yachts by SSCS so they should actually be named MY "whatever" to be factually correct. I can call my cocker spaniel Captain on my 9m fibre glass yacht - it doesn`t make my dog a licensed Captain though ..

  • -1

    cabadaje

    Okay then, looks like the answer to how the approach occurred has been made available thanks to the Sea Shepherd releasing its video (sort of. It was actually live feed from their webcam).

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zfanNxRfus4

    The first part is the Steve Irwin positioning itself for a good view (incidentally, this also answers the question as to where the Steve Irwin was when the Nisshin Maru allegedly rammed both ships aside: It was way the hell behind everyone, filming the action). Around the 8:00 minute mark, we see the SI filming one of the previous attacks. We see both the Nisshan Maru and the Sun Laurel at idle speed, matching course and velocity in preparation for docking. At around 8:45 or so, we see the Bob Barker pop in between the two ships. Unfortunately, due to the satellite lag probably, the frame freezes and we only get one or two images until 13:20, where we see the Nisshin Maru go full ahead to make an emergency veer away from the Bob Barker. Being that the Nisshin Maru has little to fear from an alongside collision from the smaller boat, we can only assume that even at this point, after several hours of harassment, the captain was still trying to avoid capsizing the little boat. Why they had to do an emergency veer is not clear, but it involved proximity; either the Bob Barker tried to ram them (unlikely), or they got a bit too close and got pulled in by the draft (more likely).

    If road rage was an issue, it certainly hadn't made its appearance yet. I'm not sure if large vessels use the same terminology, but the captain executes a rather well-done hove to, where he turns his sharp veer away into a 90 degree turn, effectively using the water to arrest his momentum and come close to a full stop. This little trick works, leaving the Nisshin Maru behind the Sun Laurel, and ready to set himself up for another pass; had he gone too far ahead, he would have had to circle around for another try. At 13:47 we see the Nisshin Maru again moving forward to match speed with the Sun Laurel.

    At 16:40 or so we see the Bob Barker again getting a bit too close. It is difficult to tell due to the resolution, but it does seem from the tilt of the Bob Barker, that the skipper is fighting the drag. At 17:05 and 17:15, we see the skipper hitting the speed, to get out of the drag. Playing along that thin edge, where a moment's distraction will slap your tiny little ship up against the behemoth right next to you, that's not a smart or safe, not for the fragile little fleshbags bouncing around inside the metal ships.

    In all cases, we see the Bob Barker fall back a little to contemplate their recent brush with mortality, and another SS ship steams up the port side of the Nisshin Maru. Emboldened once again, at 19:11 we see both ships speed up and box the Nisshin Maru in from both sides. Now, please remember that this is the same harassment tactic they tried and almost failed at two minutes ago, and tried and DID fail at earlier in this clip. The only addition is that this time, if they failed, the Nisshin Maru would not be able to swerve out of the way without hitting the other ship...which may well be the plan on the SS side.

    The Nisshin Maru isn't willing to let itself be in this position, so at the same time, we see it break off from the tanker again, steaming forward to prevent the second ship from boxing it in. Again, it turns to eat up the speed and tries to parallel up for docking. Again, the film lags, but at around 22:00 we see the two SS ships falling back, probably because the Nisshin Maru, at this point, is too far away to parallel for docking.

    What came as a mild surprise to everyone, including the skipper on the Steve Irwin, as he repositions the webcam to view it, is the Sun Laurel repositioning itself to parallel the Nisshin Maru. While there are no actual prohibitions about it, usually the tanker maintains course and the other ship adapts to it. That said, usually you don't have other boats actively trying to prevent you from refueling. The Nisshin Maru, spotting this chance, guns the engines at 28:00 to line up. The Bob Barker tries to intercept, and the Steve Irwin gets left behind, giving us a crappy video at a kinda important part of the story.

    At 30:48 there is a sudden skip, so we don't know what happened beyond the Nisshin Maru suddenly cutting her engines, as she is now behind the two other ships and the Steve Irwin is all caught up. At 32:35, we see a flip-flop of roles as the Nisshin Maru maintains course and speed and the Sun Laurel actually turns starboard to line up with it. The beauty of this little move is that the Bob Barker, which was previously slightly between and behind the two ships, is now slightly outside to the starboard line of the tanker, parallel to the Nisshin Maru. I am having a lot of trouble believing the Sea Shepherd statement that the Koreans claimed (by way of message in a bottle), that they were being held against their will by the Japanese and that they didn't approve of the whalers. This isn't the kind of coordination that occurs without trust and communication; the tanker and the whaler needed to be working together for this to happen.

  • -2

    cabadaje

    At around 33:45, we see the Nisshin Maru and the Bob Barker running along side, which is around the time the video from the Nisshin Maru begins. At 33:50 we start to hear and see the Bob Barker revving up the engines, although there doesn't seem to be a full commitment yet, as if the crew is trying to determine if they are too late for an intercept. At 35:43 we see them decide they can, and start to shoot forward. Again, it gets difficult because at this most crucial time, the feed begins to lag yet again. At 37:15~ we see the Bob Barker do its own hove too across the stern of the tanker, and the only reason I can imagine it doing that is because it approached a bit too fast and got caught in the tanker's drag. At 37:26 we see it realign itself with the Sun Laurel. At 38:00~ it cuts engine and matches speed (i.e. idle ahead), directly in the path of the incoming Nisshin Maru. Unfortunately, we can't see the Nisshin Maru, because the camera, which the skipper had no trouble moving before when he wanted to capture the Sun Laurel's unexpected moves, is now apparently stuck filming half the Bob Barker, the tanker, and more than half the entire screen of just plain ocean for about five minutes.

    This kind of caught me by surprise, because in the Nisshin Maru video we see the relative position of the NM to the Sun Laurel, and the matching speed. Five minutes should have been more than enough time for the vessel to have stopped. Around 42:00, the Steve Irwin repositions itself, and we see the Bob Barker sitting still right where the Nisshin Maru was headed, except now it has done an entire 180. We also see it tooling around a bit, so it is unlikely that it stayed still after we lost the feed (come to think of it, it couldn't have stayed still because the tanker was moving at idle speed and would have left the Bob Barker behind). The twist ending here, though, explains it all. The tanker is no longer moving at idle ahead. Why? Because there is an SS ship directly in front of it. Now it makes sense that the Bob Barker was able to stop and turn around in such a short time. It also makes sense that the Nisshin Maru, that was still moving forward and not expecting the tanker to come to a stop, was suddenly caught short.

    I think, EyeonWarson, this might also explain the Bob Barker's sudden burst of speed, along with the tanker moving forward again. At 43:51, just before we see the feed cut out (Really? The feed cut out just before the collision? There are an amazing number of coincidences going here.) we see the ship ahead of the tanker beat feet, and the tanker again starts moving forward again, probably because it sees the imminent collision coming up behind it. The Bob Barker crew, now realizing that they were in a really bad place, tried to match speed too, but the little boat gets caught once again in the draft and pointed into the tanker (which is what I think we are seeing in your video). Either that, or it was intentionally ramming the tanker, which, while I wouldn't put it past the SS normally (indeed, they did precisely this earlier in the day), would have been somewhat suicidal at this point.

    There is obviously a few minutes between videos as the Steve Irwin feed ends and the Bob Barker feed begins, but we see the end results. I already explained this part before, so I won't repeat myself.

  • -2

    cleo

    As we have gotten to the point where your claim that whaling is profitable for individual people because two people were convicted of stealing expensive meat from their catch, I don't see further merit in continuing.

    Because two people were convicted of stealing? No, because the stuff was not labelled properly (in an apparent attempt to pretend it wasn't whale meat at all) and there was so much closing of ranks and back-tracking over 'explanations' of why and how crew members were sending themselves dodgy boxes marked 'cardboard' and containing huge amounts of prime meat.

    But if you're having trouble finding more excuses for the big annual southern junket to kill as many whales as possible, feel free to bow out. :-)

    For the people on the ships, whaling is very profitable

    That`s not important in the discussion - the discussion is about whaling by Japan

    The discussion is about the Nisshin Maru ramming the Bob Barker and why. Loss of perks is an obvious reason for 'road rage' on the part of the whalers. Or are you suggesting that the Government of Japan phoned down to the captain of the NM and told him to ram, ram, ram?

  • -2

    eyeonwarson

    The discussion is about the Nisshin Maru ramming the Bob Barker and why. Loss of perks is an obvious reason for 'road rage' on the part of the whalers. Or are you suggesting that the Government of Japan phoned down to the captain of the NM and told him to ram, ram, ram?

    Loss of perks? damn thats pretty funny even fornormalSSCS claims. I rather suspect SSCS USA will be losing many of theirperks quite shortly once contempt of court proceedings get under way` and rightly so.

  • -3

    eyeonwarson

    On another note :

    On the subject of irrationality, it tickled me that the whalers ordered the SS Australian-registered ships to leave the Australian Antarctic Territory.

    It`s not Australian territory or EEZ. I suggest reading up in Article four of the Antarctic treaty. Even Australia admits they are not going to attempt to enforce any EEZ claims as long as the ATS is in force.

    Getting funnier by the minute :-)

  • -3

    eyeonwarson

    Yep, getting into classic status now :-)

    Anti-whaling activists are alarmed at the Japanese military presence in Australian Antarctic waters, saying they are there to assist in the "bloody slaughter of a protected species". A 12,500-tonne military icebreaker, the Shirase, has been sent to where a Japanese factory ship and fuel tanker is located.

    The Shirase, operated by the Japan Maritime Self-Defence Force, has appeared near whalers and Sea Shepherd activists 50 nautical miles off the coast of the territory, the group said. Sea Shepherd representatives believe the military presence is to bolster Japan's whaling fleet in the conflict with Sea Shepherd off the Australian Antarctic Territory.

    Even better,

    "They're heavily armed helicopters," Mr Watson told News Limited from the Steve Irwin, one of three Sea Shepherd boats in the area.

    "They carry three of these big helicopters.

    ROFLMAO, funnee ....

    Especially when you read this :

    The Japanese Government had no immediate comment on the Shirase's use but an informed Australian source said the Shirase was scheduled to be in the region conducting Antarctic scientific work off nearby Cape Darnley. While the activity would include working on ocean moorings, which are used to collect oceanographic data, Sea Shepherd representatives say this is a cover.

    I laughed so hard that I thought for a minute I`d pee myself :-)

    Thereally funny part is that sea shepherd supporters probably believe this as gospel :-)

  • 2

    4649Julian

    @ jeff

    What make the difference and who decide and how? Which living organism may kill which one may not. All life is equal,we must respect each other. Your kind of idea is the root of racism. Will you answer? I can see your wrong picture and your posting is off topic for sure.This is the article about what S.S. said about rammed ships each other. I think they have been ignoring the 500 yards restriction bu US court order.If they had respected the law, it would not have happened. Japan has no illegal activity there at the international waters with IWC approval.

  • 1

    SwissToni

    4649Julian, Japan's scientific whaling is not with IWC approval. Japan issues its own scientific whaling permits, it's this issue that's at the centre of the controversy.

Login to leave a comment

OR
  • 営業

    営業
    MB Japan 株式会社、東京都
    給与:月給 25万円 ~ 25万円 相談可 歩合制
  • Teacher for Children and After School Care

    Teacher for Children and After School Care
    Spike and Ai International After School、神奈川県
    給与:月給 26万円 ~ 30万円
  • スクールスタッフ | School Staff

    スクールスタッフ | School Staff
    ファーストラーニング松戸校 - First Learning (Matsudo)、千葉県
    給与:月給 22万円 ~ 25万円 相談可 3ヶ月のトレーニング/見習い期間は18万円/月からスタート
  • External Affairs Media Coordinator

    External Affairs Media Coordinator
    The American Chamber of Commerce in Japan / 在日米国商工会議所 (ACCJ)、東京都
    給与:給与についての記載なし
  • リサ―チ アナリスト

    リサ―チ アナリスト
    Promar Consulting / プロマーコンサルティング、東京都
    給与:給与要相談 Depends on experience

More in National

View all

View all