Shibuya Ward issues Japan's first same-sex partnership certificate

That's nice, but why not marriage licenses?

I wish them a very happy future.

turbotsatNOV. 05, 2015 - 02:39PM JST That's nice, but why not marriage licenses?

Because it isn't constitutional to issue marriage licenses, so they aren't legally able to.

It would require constitutional amendment to allow same-sex marriage, and while I think they should allow it, I don't see that happening in Japan.... at least not for a very long time.

See the case in the Supreme Court right now about allowing women to remarry immediately after a divorce, or allowing married couples to use different surnames...

This is a great development. Let's hope that over time a momentum builds behind this and leads towards full recognition under law. Moreover, before anybody gets on their moral hobby horse about this I would offer two brief comments. Don't criticize others until you have walked in their shoes. Secondly, you cannot openly discriminate against minorities in society and expect them to just suck it up.

Thank God for that.

nice for a starting point in JP

Heh, why the Life Insurance and Mobile Carrier getting in on the action? Just goes to show that even- they too- will throw their own morals under the bus just to make ends meet and exploit themselves along w gay couples while they're @it.

Wc626NOV. 05, 2015 - 02:50PM JST Heh, why the Life Insurance and Mobile Carrier getting in on the action? Just goes to show that even- they too- will throw their own morals under the bus just to make ends meet and exploit themselves along w gay couples while they're @it.

Allowing same-sex couples the same rights as heterosexual couples is "throwing their morals under the bus"?

You do realise that same-sex relationships weren't uncommon and were open, before the Black Ships came and forced Christian "Morals" on Japan, right?

Just goes to show that even- they too- will throw their own morals under the bus just to make ends meet

Who says that their morals are anti-homosexual?

Best of luck to the two, and hats off to Shibuya Ward and the companies willing to acknowledge same-sex couples!

Given Japan's dire demographic situation anything that encourages homosexual relationships is against the national interest. It is disappointing that Shibuya ward has followed through with this.

Given Japan's dire demographic situation anything that encourages homosexual relationships is against the national interest.

How so? Explain the logic behind this comment.

AkulaNOV. 05, 2015 - 03:16PM JST Given Japan's dire demographic situation anything that encourages homosexual relationships is against the national interest. It is disappointing that Shibuya ward has followed through with this.

You act as if gay and lesbian couples would just simply go and marry the opposite sex just to have babies, if they aren't allowed to marry....

There is a logical disconnect there that you aren't seeing...

well abe has started the tradition of reinterpreting the constitution so the gay community should, too. equality for all, damnit!

You do realise that same-sex relationships weren't uncommon and were open, before the Black Ships came and forced Christian "Morals" on Japan, right?

Then Japan has had more than enough time to throw off these Christian morals that in any case had no grounding in Japanese traditional morals anyway. There are countries that were a good deal more Christian 150 years ago than Japan has ever been that have managed to come round to official same-sex marriage. I have never agreed with this excuse that Japanese morals were so corrupted by the West that their alleged previous liberal permissiveness has never had chance to re-emerge.

You never see homosexuality in Shunga Art Publications. I wonder why.

You never see homosexuality in Shunga Art Publications. I wonder why.

Cognitive dissonance?

https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Homosexuality_in_shunga

You never see homosexuality in Shunga Art Publications. I wonder why.

After seeing SenseNotSoCommon's post, I guess the answer to your question is: because you haven't looked for it.

Personally I don't think what Shibuya Ward has done is a good thing and I don't agree with it.

You do realise that same-sex relationships weren't uncommon and were open, before the Black Ships came and forced Christian "Morals" on Japan, right?

No. I'm ignorant to that. I didn't know same sex relationships were common at that time in Japan.

Perry wasn't a crusader like his potuguese counterparts. He only wanted to force open trade, not Christian "Morals."

I think it would be better to focus on mental health research on bigots in today's world, as they are bigger problems than any perceived threat to morals or whatever they're calling their self-imposed quests these days. It's time that the low-educated, unskilled, and bigoted step up and start contributing to society rather than leaching from it

@SenseNotSoCommon. YIKES! That was a truly disturbing link you provided. . . . But put shonanbb's 'foot n' mouth".

Chris Whitmore: Because it isn't constitutional to issue marriage licenses, so they aren't legally able to.

I'm not in favor of the incremental approach. People should follow the golden rule and stop discriminating. Particularly the apparatchiks.

Turbostat: I'm not in favor of the incremental approach. People should follow the golden rule and stop discriminating. Particularly the apparatchiks.

I mean, neither am I, but really its all that is going to happen. Japan isn't about to change itself overnight completely, sadly we have to just deal with slow and hopeful continual change for the better.

Only a first step, but a good one all the same. This is good for everyone, not just LGBT, because everyone is a potential victim of the koseki system.

fwiw, I'm pretty sure you can take out life insurance on non-relatives in Japan, so recognition for same-sex couples might be more a case of feel-good publicity for the insurance company rather than much of a change in policy. In a notorious case, before she poisoned the curry at the local festival in Wakayama, that Masumi woman took out insurance policies on several men she wasn't married to who then all died in similar circumstances. She collected the money.

Just goes to show that even- they too- will throw their own morals under the bus just to make ends meet and exploit themselves along w gay couples while they're @it.

Can we just be done we this morality argument already? Extramarital affairs and all sorts of other immoral behavior existed long before gay marriage.

Personally, I would appreciate it people with opinions similar to yours would just say, "gay sex is gross and I don't like it." At the very least the honesty would be refreshing.

Recognition of will to consider somebody else as partner has nothing to do with marriage, which is about raising a family. They are complementary. Respect to all, in both directions. And yes, gay sex is gross. LOL.

Good luck to Japan demography.

Recognition of will to consider somebody else as partner has nothing to do with marriage, which is about raising a family.

Is it now? So, remind me why old people and infertile people can marry? Lololol

Good luck to Japan demography.

As homosexuality is an orientation and not a preference, this will 0 effect on fertility rates in Japan.

@Wc626

"That was a truly disturbing link you provided..."

You should try to get to the root of why it disturbs you. Perhaps some feelings are lurking there?

Recognition of will to consider somebody else as partner has nothing to do with marriage, which is about raising a family.

Who decided that marriage is about raising a family? That's certainly not something I signed on to when I got married, and I have no intention of disbanding my marriage when my children leave the house and I'm done raising them.

I'm sure he's relieved it's a foot. Art has always reflected reality

LoL. Yes, if he's a guy, sure he's relieved too.

You should try to get to the root of why it disturbs you

LoL, Again. Whatever do you mean? That "is" what's disturbing tho. If I'm the only one on this thread who is disturbed by those godforsaken images, then so be it.

I'm a straight guy. Is that so "disturbing" nowadays??

This is all good - progressive and positive advances towards equality and fairness. The more businesses that offer same-sex households the same deals as they do heterosexual couples, the more people will start to reject businesses which do not, and expect equal treatment in other areas of life. Well done!

I'm a straight guy. Is that so "disturbing" nowadays??

You are allowed to feel strange about homosexual art, thats fine, in fact, if you are on the 100% heterosexual side of the Kinsey Scale of human sexuality, then arguably, its not strange for you to feel that way.

Again, your feelings arent under attack, the point is that people who don't sit on the same point as you on the scale, still have a right to live their life the way they wish, as long as that does not hurt anyone else.

People being gay doesn't hurt your ability to be straight. So, why stand in their way just because you think its "gross"?

Yes, I am upset when libs try to preach the acceptance of same-sex to the world. And when you do not agree, suddenly "you" aren't normal anymore.

Again with gusto, you are allowed to have your own freaking opinion, but you don't get to shape the world based on your opinion if that opinion negatively affects others.

People being gay doesn't have any impact on your life, nobody is forcing you to be gay, nobody is forcing you to accept less than other peoples rights, nobody is forcing you to hide who you are from the world.

The conservatives like yourself who don't want homosexuality out in the world, are saying all of that to those who are gay. That they should hide their life away, that they shouldnt be allowed to express themselves exactly like you are allowed to with the person you love.

@Wc626 I wanted to articulate that you seem upset. But I'm very sorry if you feel it was unfair. You do seem pretty upset. It's not only liberals. You know how much us "liberals" love to be on his team. But, you don't have to accept anything you don't want to. It's your life. As someone said to you before, you want to restrict other people's freedom and they're not having it. Personally, I can't find the logic in this desire to make other people unhappy over something that doesn't affect you in the least. On the other hand, I understand what it's like to be pissed that the world isn't the way we want it. We have to learn to be happy even when the world doesn't march to our drum.

Again with gusto, you are allowed to have your own freaking opinion

Yeah . . . but when people start using (cutting, pasting bits) my "quotes" out of context, my freakin' opinion is gonna get a little louder.

@Chris Whitmore. I'd never misquote your posts for my own advantage.

'Recognition of will to consider somebody else as partner has nothing to do with marriage, which is about raising a family'

I'm married with no kids and it's too late to have any now. What's my marriage about? I'd suggest love, friendship, mutual kicks up the arse when needed and shared values in my case but I'm wondering if you could set me straight.

Gays are wonderful!

This is a good (baby) step and I wish all the people every happiness. It's great to be with someone you truly love (as opposed to being forced into a loveless marriage). I do honestly think that most people who are upset or disgusted with the idea of civil unions for gays and lesbians and SMS are somewhat self-insecure or have some sort of problems and need to take their anger out on others.

This is none of my business but separating boys and girls in different schools were creating gays and lesbians. Gay danshoku lesbian joshoku straight furyo. homo love ... doseiai. straight love ... iro kichigai. none people. honkichigai

Strangerland - all smugly caught up on the meaning of "Sour Grapes"? OK. Good.

Now, I've done a little research, and theres a thread from August, 2012 where you forgot to smugly call someone's innocuous opinion "incorrect". Better get on that.

Also, I saw a headline from June, 2011 that you forgot to smugly opine might have a dangling participle. If you don't smugly get on this right away, readers might smugly not be smugly reminded that you are smug. Furthermore, smug smug smug cannot help smug something smug of smug.

Smug? smug.

These are the same young ladies who were "married" at Tokyo Disneyland in 2013. They were the first in line to apply for a certificate back in April. Apparently it's taken some seven months for the officials in Shibuya to grant their request. Is that just the normal pace at which the Japanese bureaucracy acts, or is the delay indicative of how controversial this decision is?

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/03/05/tokyo-disneyland-lesbian-wedding_n_2811588.html

JT needs a like button.

Good for these ladies.

I fail to see someone else's sexuality either helps or harms me or society.

@theFuNOV. 06, 2015 - 12:15AM JST Good for these ladies.

I fail to see someone else's sexuality either helps or harms me or society.

''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''

Because you are not biased in any subject or issue.

Need more but it's a start for sure.

I fail to see someone else's sexuality either helps or harms me or society. ''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''

Because you are not biased in any subject or issue.

I am definitely biased, but begin with looking to allow people to live their own lives without interference first.

Perhaps naively, this applies for pretty much everything in my thoughts. Marriage is just one of the places, but if something doesn't harm someone else (unwillingly) or their property, I'm inclined to allow it.

Well done.. Its a start.

@hAWAIT:My comment is my observation when I was students in Japanese schools l. added Japanese words what Japanese calls gay for generations to explain Japan had gay culture.

Toshiko: My comment is my observation when I was students in Japanese schools l. added Japanese words what Japanese calls gay for generations to explain Japan had gay culture.

Your "theory" about all boy/girl schools "creating" homosexuals is amusing, because it makes the assumption that no students ever come out of co-ed schools being gay..... When I know at least three of my ex-students who have graduated in the past few years from co-ed schools who are openly gay, and who knows how many who aren't open about it.

Good.

Personally I don't think what Shibuya Ward has done is a good thing and I don't agree with it.

Yep

Chris: There was no coed the time I was in middle sxhool. That was a long time ago. Gen Mqc tried to make coed and Japan created Jr and /Sr Hs ayarwm but no coed yet. Then Gen Mac recommended Public Univ to accept girls. 1951. I applied in out prefecture Univ. Only 1 girl for Economic major. i passed but I went girls college donated. by lord family.

A bunch of #Chris: There was no coed the time I was in middle sxhool. That was a long time ago. Gen Mqc tried to make coed and Japan created Jr and /Sr Hs ayarwm but no coed yet. Then Gen Mac recommended Public Univ to accept girls. 1951. I applied in out prefecture Univ. Only 1 girl for Economic major. i passed but I went girls college donated. by lord family. A bunch of rich brat girls. It took many more years Japanese Jr and Sr HS became coed.

What does that have to do with this...........move? The oyajis at Nagatacho will never legalise it nationwide anyway.

The oyajis at Nagatacho will never legalise it nationwide anyway.

Sure they will. They will wait until most of the rest of the first world has done it already, but they will eventually follow suit. So it's probably only 20-30 years away.

They won't without different politicians in the diet. Probably more like 30. Fingers crossed

Recognition of will to consider somebody else as partner has nothing to do with marriage, which is about raising a family.

Is it now? So, remind me why old people and infertile people can marry? Lololol

because law allow so ? Adoption has always existed... Not my fault if people marry for fun. It is an important tool to know where you are supposed to come from and set common understanding. If I am in love with 5 women who would all accept to marry me altogether, why is not allowed then? Because marriage has been set this way for family purposes. Not saying it is good or bad, it is human history So saying gay marriage affects no one is scam, it affects the whole system and thus history. I would follow and accept if permitted anytime if made lawful, like in my home country. But hey, they are asking now right to get kids...imagine issues raiising instead of making it smoother.

Good luck to Japan demography.

As homosexuality is an orientation and not a preference, this will 0 effect on fertility rates in Japan.

wrong about fertility effect. Promoting gayness will at leadt marginally impact fertility rate. I am straight but if I decide to be gay because it is cool, guess my chance to make kids is reduced no? Rational thinking. It is a society choice. Not bad or good thing.

Thanks for all talks everyone. All opinions welcome, with all due respect.

wrong about fertility effect. Promoting gayness will at leadt marginally impact fertility rate. I am straight but if I decide to be gay because it is cool, guess my chance to make kids is reduced no? Rational thinking. It is a society choice. Not bad or good thing.

People don't just ~choose~ to be gay....

Supporting links please. At the end of the day, if the US hadn't legalised gay marriage, Shibuya wouldn't be doing this. It is merely a tool for doing what appears cool and trendy

At the end of the day, if the US hadn't legalised gay marriage, Shibuya wouldn't be doing this. It is merely a tool for doing what appears cool and trendy

1) your timelines don't work here. This was already in the works when the US legalized gay marriage.

2) and even so, so what? It's good Shibuya is doing the right thing no matter what the trigger.

@ChristopherG

You know full well you can find links showing scientific evidence. Here's one:

http://www.natureworldnews.com/articles/10443/20141118/homosexuality-genetic-strongest-evidence.htm

Beliefs, of course, shape perceptions and strong beliefs are often used to deny scientific evidence that might be contradictory.

You believe the decision was made because of the US and because it was cool and trendy; I believe it was made by the government to acknowledge the reality that couples of the same sex are deserving of rights equal to couples of the opposite sex.

Kudos to Shibuya for taking this position!

We will agree to disagree

I don't agree to that. I disagree with your premise, and do not agree with you.

"Housewives" in Japan receive pension benefits according to their husband's income without doing a lick of work if they so choose. I have heard from a lot of Japanese people that this little benefit is deeply resented by young women who want to get out and earn some honest pay.

I am guessing that the new rules, which give plenty of rights and benefits to people, will be balanced somehow by increasing people's responsibilities. But you know. I am likely to be wrong in this regard. People seem way too giddy to be concerned about that.

"Housewives" in Japan receive pension benefits according to their husband's income without doing a lick of work if they so choose.

The fact is the majority of housewives in Japan take care of the house and the children while their husbands work ridiculously long hours. This allows the husband to still have meals, clean clothes, a clean house, and kids - something they wouldn't be able to do otherwise. So to say that they don't do a lick of work is ignoring reality, and disrespects the hard work that they do.

I don't agree to that. I disagree with your premise, and do not agree with you.

Whatever helps you sleep at night. The fact is, there often comes times where people have irreconcilable views. We are such a case. And I will continue to state that I disagree with this move

So to say that they don't do a lick of work is ignoring reality, and disrespects the hard work that they do.

There we go, agreement. Common ground

"Housewives" in Japan receive pension benefits according to their husband's income without doing a lick of work if they so choose. I have heard from a lot of Japanese people that this little benefit is deeply resented by young women who want to get out and earn some honest pay.

It's only the non-earning wives of sararimen who get a free pension, and it's the national pension, regardless of hubby's earnings. While Strangerland is correct in saying that in the case of most housewives it isn't true that they don't do a lick of work, you are also correct in saying that they can still get their pension even if they don't do a lick of work if they choose. Meanwhile the non-earning wives of the self-employed and others not in the pension scheme are obliged to pay into the National Pension and get no more pension when they reach old age than their sisters married to sararimen, despite having contributed equally to providing meals, clean clothes, a clean house and kids so that self-employed hubby can keep his nose on the grindstone.

This is not a 'little' benefit, it's quite a significant benefit that the beneficiaries fight tooth and nail to retain - any politician suggesting scrapping the free pension for (some) housewives can say goodbye to his seat. It's deeply resented by most working women who are forced to not only pay for their own pension (naturally) but also contribute to the free pension of the sahw. As well as by the sararimen with working wives (paying for their own pension) who are also contributing to the free pensions of other men's wives.

Hopefully growing acceptance of same-sex marriages, with partners on an equal footing, will lead to greater recognition that people should be paying for their own pensions, not expecting others to pay for it simply because they have a bit of paper saying they're married.

Agreed about most of the last paragraph