Standing up when singing 'Kimigayo' is 'common sense,' minister says

Wednesday 19th November, 06:53 AM JST

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cleo at 11:46 AM JST - 20th November

The reasons people choose to stand and sing, or not, are by the by. As long as it is a choice, the flag/national anthem has some meaning. The moment people stand and sing because they're forced to, not because they choose to, is the moment the flag becomes nothing but a scrap of cloth and the national anthem nothing but a wailing dirge.

I've attended school graduation ceremonies where a number of parents sat through the national anthem. While I chose to stand and sing rhubarb (don't know the words past the first line), it made me feel good to know that I and the people round me didn't have to stand and sing if we didn't want to (for whatever reason).

Sixty years ago dire things happened to people in Japan who didn't tow the line. I for one would not want to see this fine country go back to that.
Patrick Smash at 12:01 PM JST - 20th November

USNinJapan2

Actually I wish I hadn't mentioned America. I don't really have many anti-American feelings myself, I just don't think patriotism and pride in one's country relies on national anthems and singing at flags. If Britain (thanks to the mods for allowing the continued comparison) were to replace the current anthem with something less politically charged, I would stand up and sing it.

I think Kimigayo is the same thing. The song is steeped in the worship of an emperor and an imperialistic past that America had to go to war over, and many people do not feel this anthem reflects Japan's achievements or the things that are great about the country. If you gave them a song more reflecting modern Japan, they would not object I think.

It's not about manners or common sense to me, and the Japanese government should stop wasting money fighting a legal battle in an attempt to force people to sing it if they don't want to. It should be so trivial an issue that the government smiles and ignores the few people who object to this song.

In a democracy I don't think people should be forced to do things like this against their will. If I want to stand up and sing God save the Queen, in a free democracy, that should be my choice. But equally it is my choice not to. As for respecting other nations, I would always stand up for the US anthem in America or the Japanese one here. I have no politically-charged motive to not do so, and it would be disrespectful to another's country to not do so. But being a Brit of Irish extraction, I can see why some people can object heavily to the words of the British and Japanese anthems. They have no right to criticize those who want to stand up and sing either, but I think they should not be threatened and harassed for a personal decision made in a democratic country over what should be a non-issue.
omarbabilon at 02:18 PM JST - 20th November

My son was born in Japan, my wife is japanese, i'm not, and of course in fact my son is japanese. Certainly i agree with standing up when LISTENING "Kimigayo", as respect for the country and the people, BUT NOT SINGING OR FORCE TO SING. In fact i will never accept my son to be taught or told to sing "kimigayo", not at all. At first, because i am from a democratic country, then... to sing something about "long life to the emperor" or "i surrender to the emperor" is completely unacceptable as a free world's citizen, of course i know it's a cultural issue, but "he", i mean the emperor, is not politicaly representative and of course "he" is not a real symbol of a nation making its way into democracy. In case "He" is the symbol of the insanity of the Japanese Army during the II World War, the symbol of an old and arcaic institution what refuses to accept its enormous guilty about many war crimes, the symbol of the totalitarian and abusive power, the symbol of inequality between equals. No, i would never accept my son to sign it, when i was in my country i used to sing the national anthem, but the difference is... You can sing about honor, loyalty or devotion to your country, your nation or the values and ideals wich support your country, but never... NEVER TO HONOR A SINGLE MAN or his figure, because "he" doesn't represent you or your beliefs and values. About the flag... you can respect things even if you don't believe in it, anyway it deserves respect as any other country's flag, But to sing an anthem... having in the lyrics something like "long life to the emperor" or something like that is completely different, and not acceptable under any circunstance, to sing "YOUR" national anthem must come from the heart..., not from some fascist who want to order what to do.
spudman at 11:09 PM JST - 20th November

seesaw that is a very fascist thing to say. If you don't like it you should say work to change it. Their was no vote on the national anthem and kimigayo breaks the vow to separate the emperor from politics. Sounds like you are unaware of Japans constitution.
gonemad at 02:53 AM JST - 21st November

You seem to have forgotten that public schools were started, and continue to operate, for the purpose of indoctrinating the young as well as teaching them the basics necessary to survive in modern society.

You confuse indoctrination with education. The first one is entirely out of place in a school. A national anthem is certainly not belonging to basics necessary to survive in modern society.

Standing for Kimigayo is a harmless token of respect to Japan.

It could be - if authorities wouldn't try to enforce it. Here it is becoming a matter of freedom of expression.
GJDailleult at 09:20 AM JST - 21st November

Two points for those who missed them. One, countries with non-political anthems, like Canada and the USA, are not comparable with countries where the anthem has a political slant. That means the attitudes of Canadians or Americans towards their own anthems are irrelevant when talking about Japanese attitudes. Apples and oranges, different kettle of fish, etc. Two, for the Americans on this thread who have criticized the teachers, what you are basically doing is supporting the people who think that attacking your country was justified and the right course of action, and criticizing those who think it wasn't. Amazing.
ultradodgy at 01:44 PM JST - 21st November

This shouldn't be an issue about teachers and lists and blah blah blah.

It should trigger an intense debate about why some/many Japanese do not feel represented by their country, and why they do not feel patriotic.

This is pretty big stuff, and deserves some deep discussion. I would offer that the unsettled issues from WWII and the rapid transformation to a bureacratic, staid, bland system of government and corporatism would be a good place to start.
superesonator at 01:38 AM JST - 22nd November

So it's proper to keep a dossier on anyone whose "common sense" is questionable.
greensatindress at 11:52 AM JST - 22nd November

This is one of those hot button topics that never ceases to amuse me how people get so worked up over the national anthem here. Personally, I think it would be nice if the anthem was completely scraped and they (again, the vague 'they' out there) composed a new piece with a different melody and lyrics. But that's just my two yen.
yasukuni at 08:32 PM JST - 22nd November

I totally understand the position of teachers in Japan who don't want to stand for the anthem. I am also aware that many or perhaps even most of the people who want to punish those who don't stand(or even don't sing as loudly and passionately as they could), have an mistaken view of history.

Having said that, if a school has rules about standing for anthems, or school songs, and rules about uniforms and all sorts of things that an individual may think are wrong, strange, unnecessary, stupid or whatever, then it seems to me that they should be obeyed.

I have relatives who were murdered by Japanese in WW2, others who were POWs etc, but my children will be taught to stand up for the anthem and sing.

Maybe if the teachers who don't stand, stand but take other opportunities to teach history, then they will be listened to more. Maybe. I don't really know the answer to that.

But given that its protocol to stand even for other country's anthems at sporting events, then until the anthem changes, I agree that it's "common sense" to stand.

I wonder what would be wrong with having a referendum on it. Anthems can be changed. There are probably many Japanese who would like to sing a different anthem with gusto, and get misty eyed over their country (like many other people do), but can't to the hinomaru and kimigayo.

I am old enough to remember "God Save the Queen" being played in Australia as the national anthem, but it was changed for reasons you can imagine. It's actually possible to stand for an anthem that you aren't totally happy with until an alternative is decided upon. I was taught to stand up for God Save the Queen (even though I hated having the same anthem as those loathesome pommies!), but was happier to stand up for Advance Australia Fair. Every country has shameful things in its past, but if that negates standing for your anthem, then we may as well all stay seated.

As for not agreeing with the words, well what do atheists do? Many anthems have religious words, and if references to God saving and blessing etc offend you then half the population of many countries will have to sit their anthems out.

So, yes, it's "common sense". Btw, was joushiki the word he used?
GW at 04:57 PM JST - 23rd November

the teachers shud stand imo but if they are against the hinomaru & kimigayo(which I totally understand) then simply do one of 2 things:

Stand silent

Stand silent with a small piece of tape over yr mouth if you want to actively protest.

Finally people clearly need to be allowed to make their own choices whether to stand or not etc
browny1 at 08:37 PM JST - 23rd November

I posted before but i think this is the key point in the discussion -

The emperor himself has stated only a few years ago to the effect that.,

"No one should be forced to stand & sing the anthem"

So the logical conclusion of this then can only be he lacks common sense and manners,

or he should be believed.
bagofrom at 10:32 AM JST - 24th November

well what do atheists do?

I myself used to work as a handicaphelper for a Christian guy. When going to ceremonies in his church I remained seated unlike all the Christians. It wasn't out of protest, but I sort of felt the rituals would loose their meaning if I, not believing in the rituals, would stand up among the people believing in the rituals. I feel the same way about religious as national rituals. The one time a person asked me to stand up, they guy I was working for defended my stand, and applied that it underlined my professionality - I wasn't there to take part in a ceremony, I was working. I did however stand up during baptizings and funerals out of respect for the kids or the dead people, but not for religion.

The teachers are in school to teach kids usefull stuff, nut to attend semi-religious ceremonies. And in general one should respect people not symbols.
uperjer at 10:45 AM JST - 25th November

when in rome, do as the romans do.
notimpressed at 11:18 AM JST - 25th November

Its a crappy song with not enough lyrics or meaning to mean anything as a national anthem. All its says in a nut shell is "may the emperor be the emperor for ages and ages." How is that a good national anthem? It says nothing about the land, the people, or even anything that is relevant to the country as a whole. Just hoping that a person keeps his job. One that requires no work and yet pays very well. I would change the lyrics to "may all of Japan be well and good forever and ever, screw the emperor, what has he done for me lately?"