U.S. Navy restricts nighttime drinking by all personnel throughout Japan

SASEBO —

The U.S. Navy on Monday toughened restrictions on drinking by its personnel throughout Japan.

A U.S. Naval Forces spokesman said that active-duty sailors are prohibited from drinking alcohol from 10 p.m.- 8 a.m., even in their homes, regardless of leave or liberty status, Stars & Stripes newspaper reported. The latest measure is in addition to a nationwide curfew that is in effect from 11 p.m. until 5 a.m.

However, the Navy did not say how it intends to enforce the new rule, nor what the penalties will be for offenders.

The U.S. military is under intense pressure to take action following a series of alcohol-related incidents involving U.S. servicemembers in Okinawa, Yokohama, Sasebo and elsewhere.

Stars & Stripes also reported that the new restrictions stipulate that sailors must be on-base or in off-base quarters for the curfew hours, and that all sailors on leave or in transit must be in a hotel pre-approved by their chain of command.

U.S. forces on Okinawa last week began late-night patrols in Naha during curfew hours. The patrols include plain-clothes service members from all branches who walk the streets of the city between 11 p.m. and 5:30 a.m. Similar teams already patrol areas around major bases on the island.

Japan Today

  • 2

    Farmboy

    If you think sailors who drink are a problem, I wonder how sailors who can't drink will be... In the meantime, would you like coffee, or whiskey, with your breakfast?

  • -2

    Stephen Knight

    Well, that still gives them a good 12 hours to tie one on, I'm sure the swabbies will manage somehow.

  • 20

    sfjp330

    In the military, the U.S. goverment owns you 24 hours a day so they can enforce any rules that they want. if you get caught breaking the rules, you might end up in the brigs or court martial.

  • -2

    some14some

    Alcohol free Merry Christmas or curfew will be lifted before that?

  • 6

    Okinawamike

    Alcohol free Merry Christmas?

    I'm thinking New Year's. This will put a hell'va dent in the club system profits.

    Welcome to the new military boys and girls.

  • -13

    ebisen

    Just about time... I guess people who drink decently, will still have a cup of champagne, but alcoholics and heavy drinkers shall fear. NOW there is no justification for being caught drunk in some bush.

  • 16

    soldave

    ebisen - This was talking about drink, not womanising...

  • 3

    Yubaru

    NOW there is no justification for being caught drunk in some bush.

    There never was any justification for getting drunk and doing something stooopid. This is going to be next to impossible to enforce.

  • 1

    Saketown

    I knew it would come to this...Securing Liberty and Prohibiting Alcohol Consumption after 2200 is a bumer, BUT it does get the message across when you gotta walk back across the Brow...Sober.

  • 11

    Leonard Carlson

    I can imagine how many people will be in a race to get drunk by 10pm.

    Get off work at 1700 - Beer in the shower at 1730 - Beer with dinner at 1800 - Beer with your Beer at 1830 - Beer for next few hours - Sh!t Faced by 2200 - Unable to make good decisions and continue to drink

    Clearly the curfew has not worked in stopping problems. I don't think a no drinking order will help much either. People will find new ways to beat the system or ignore the orders all together. Those people who do should be punished and not everyone else.

    An empashis needs to be made about not causing trouble. People also need to know if they cause trouble it will not be tolorated.

    Having been stationed in Korea and experienced both a curfew and a no drinking order I have good understanding of the current situation. Although due to the close proximity of the bases and the realitivly smaller size of Korea it may be easier to implement/enforce a curfew in Korea. Town Patrol wore uniforms and eventually you learnt they were there to help you out and not to hurt you. No drinking orders were only given in preperation of readiness.

  • -18

    Betraythetrust!

    Keep the thugs away from civilians at all times and the J Govt compensate business owners for lost income. No more ids being beaten, rapes and other vile acts from these idiots.

  • 1

    combinibento

    Speaking from personal experience, it is an easy feat to get sufficiently blitzed by 10pm. There is still fair amount of trouble to be caused between the 10pm-11pm hour between cessation of drinking and the end of the curfew. These boys may even make a sport out of it.

  • 10

    hereforever

    Like to see them enforce that for those who live off base. Can't see the MPs visiting all the local pubs in and around Hayama, Zushi, Yokohama and so on. Looks like a case of give them what they want to hear.

  • 8

    Leonard Carlson

    Betraythetrust!

    Keep the thugs away from civilians at all times and the J Govt compensate business owners for lost income. No more ids being beaten, rapes and other vile acts from these idiots

    Do you know what the word ignorant means?

    It is true that the actions of the few reflect the many. I've been in stationed Japan going on 8 years and I have never commited any of those acts you listed. In fact after March 11th I probably did more to help the people of Tohoku than 99% of the Japanese that were able to help...

    And please... How would you suggest the Japanese Goverment compensate buisness owners for lost income? Where is this money comeing from? Why?

  • -1

    Ewan Huzarmy

    "The patrols include plain-clothes service members from all branches who walk the streets of the city between 11 p.m. and 5:30 a.m."

    And what are THEY going to do to relieve the boredom ?

  • 5

    saidani

    As for the no-drinking order, complaints should be directed to the 7th Fleet CO.

  • -7

    Betraythetrust!

    I have encountered many serviceman from around the world including retired, the worst offenders for loutish, loud and brash behaviour were the Americans now or recently served. The older ones seemed more clued up. The facts are the military is here to serve US interests and picks many thugs from the bottom of society to make up the numbers.

    I would gladly pay extra taxes to compensate Japanese businesses from US custom and keep the streets safer as i am sure many also would.

  • 9

    jansob1

    It's time to go. Apparently the Japanese have only two settings: 1)Yay, Americans are great when they come help us after disasters and 2) RAGE! Americans are uncontrollable rapists and drunks. And they snap to 2) the instant an American does something that is completely acceptable when done by drunk ojisans.

    Also, the Chinese are the upcoming power in this area, and the best way to avoid conflict is to get out of the way. The Japanese are capable of defending themselves if they wish to....and it's not our problem if they don't.

    Out. Now.

  • 7

    Chubaka

    Less and less fun to be stationed in Japan or Okinawa these days. I can see more servicemen applying for transfers or not extending their tours in Japan for critical specialties as a result. Why live in a place where you don't feel appreciated by some communities and where the off-duty restrictions are getting tighter? Maybe should focus on the type of people they send to Japan, than these TSA-style regs.

  • -3

    Betraythetrust!

    @ Jansob1 and Chubaka. No Japan is not your problem, you are not serving your country but a small elite who benefit from wars, some of whom come from Americas "enemies". Nobody needs the US to defend them , same as nobody wants drunken thugs in their community. I would guess that most would prefer no help from America after disasters than have them in their country,

    Problem is most U.S servicemen think they are fighting for freedom and liberty when that is so far from the truth.

  • 0

    jansob1

    betraythetrust, where is our disagreement on the needed next step? We both think the US troops should leave.

  • 1

    Alphaape

    RAGE! Americans are uncontrollable rapists and drunks. And they snap to 2) the instant an American does something that is completely acceptable when done by drunk ojisans.

    I agree fully. Just curious, what ever happened to the two guys who started all of this. Funny you haven't heard much about that case in the news. From what I am hearing that woman that was attacked was not a full blooded "Japanese woman" and the press has not been pushing that story. It is still wrong what those guys did to her, regardless of what her nationality is, and they should be punished fully. But it goes to show a deeper problem I think with Japan and their attitudes about foreigners overall.

    The amount of incidents that gets reported here in JT concerning US military members since this first incident, is still far fewer than the incidents that JT has posted in the same time frame on the misdeeds of the Japanese police and what some of their officers have been doing. I am sure that the J-cops have a screening process just as the US military does, but yet some bad people make it through. No need to say that all J-cops are bad because of the actions of a few, just like saying that all miltary are bad because of the actions of a few.

    This is really intrusive leadership by the Navy, and to some it may seem like lip service, but trust me, those who have to implement these new controls find it very time consuming and you are really punishing people who have to administer these new steps for the actions of others. My advice for any young Sailors, save up you money by not going out and drinking for three weekends, and on the 4th weekend, take a trip to either Osaka, or Singapore or HK and have a blast and then come back to Japan. That's what I would do if I were still in.

  • 3

    sfjp330

    Betraythetrust!Nov. 27, 2012 - 09:14AM JST Problem is most U.S servicemen think they are fighting for freedom and liberty when that is so far from the truth.

    Maybe you should move to China. Military personnels are unappreciated and underpaid for the job they do. I salute all who have fought and or die for our freedomes here at home. It's a sad day when some of government officials, don't give a crap about good, decent and honorable men and women serving in the military. Screw the people that take freedom for granted. The only thing these people know how to do is bash brave soldiers, and make them out to be all the bad guys. They are true heroes in U.S. and they get treated the worst, what a shame.

  • -1

    saidani

    Less and less fun to be stationed in Japan or Okinawa these days

    Indeed. Many Okinawans feel the same after almost 68 years. Perhaps American servicemen should adopt a more "shouganai" attitude toward being stationed in Japan and stop worrying about having fun. The military is here on a mission, after all, not R&R like during the Vietnam War.

  • 5

    combinibento

    RAGE! Americans are uncontrollable rapists and drunks.

    Hey, not all of us are rapists.

  • 0

    JA_Cruise

    I think patrolling the streets is a good idea and prevent further mayhem.

  • 0

    MoBass4u

    Will this work? Doubtful but I guess something must be attempted. Now if only the blanket statements could drop........

  • -6

    Betraythetrust!

    sfjp330 With all due respect, it is your type of mindset that is the problem. You cannot see that they are NOT fighting for your freedom but to ensure a few remain rich and/or become richer. Funny things is when i hear Americans say things like "take freedom for granted" when the US is taking so much freedom from it's own people, all in the name of liberty and security, doncha know! Same with many of those serving in Japan, many are honest people fed the same stuff from when a child, but many are indeed thugs to make up the numbers and that is a fact.

    Wish Americans would ask more why the need to spend so much on military and thinking maybe "why do they hate us?"

  • 8

    jansob1

    If they want to meet Japanese expectations, it's simple: don't let anyone off-base at all, ever. No in-country liberty, no restaurant or bar visits, nothing. Make Japan a hardship post, send all dependents home, forbid fraternization with locals, and forget community involvement. In disasters, hand over pallets of supplies to the JSDF, but no personnel should go. Constantly remind service members that the Japanese do not want them here, think they are subhuman, and publicize only the worst of Japanese culture. That should keep them from wanting to mix with the natives.

    Of course, it would just be easier to leave.

  • 1

    daviddd1212

    This is so stupid! It tell the Japanese we are all dangerous...it is just a few that are stupid...not dangerous. There are MANY more stupid Japanese in this country than military! Limit the Japanese drinking also if u want to really prevent crime....

  • -4

    AKBfan

    Stay on base and take your aggression out on each other.

  • 3

    sfjp330

    Betraythetrust!Nov. 27, 2012 - 09:30AM JST You cannot see that they are NOT fighting for your freedom but to ensure a few remain rich and/or become richer. Funny things is when i hear Americans say things like "take freedom for granted" when the US is taking so much freedom from it's own people, all in the name of liberty and security, doncha know!

    This is a insult to all the people that is in the military. If you don't think they are fighting for your freedom, you have choice to leave.

  • -5

    Betraythetrust!

    sfjp30; My standards are the same for any military which is supposed to be highly disciplined. Servicemen are unable to commit many crimes of civilians and are not in J juristiction for the same amount of time. If you could decipher my posts you would see that i am not hating or against anyone, but the inbuilt defense mechanisms of most military huys due to environment causes a lack of empathy with those who disagree with them.

    Americans would be better off asking themselves why they spend as much on military as the next 14 countries put together and who benefits from this. Not your average American or average serviceman.

  • 0

    daviddd1212

    Japan cannot protect themselves.....they cannot afford it and the gereral nature of the gereral nature of the Japanese is not aggressive enough to make a military....look around someday on teh train and see all the salary men....think to yourself "would they make a good army?" NO WAY!

  • -4

    saidani

    then let Japan protect themselves

    The US set up this situation after the war. It has continued its heavy presence in Japan since then. America tells the Chinese and other Asian nations that it is in Japan to keep the Japanese from going all Imperialistic on the rest of Asia. It tells Americans it is in Japan to protect American interests in Asia (and, as Betraythetrust! points out, to keep America "free"), and it tells the Japanese that it is there to protect Japan from China and North Korea (or the Soviets before they collapsed).

    Be truthful, has Japan ever had an opportunity to cast off the Americans and protect themselves?

  • -3

    Thomas Anderson

    Japan cannot protect themselves

    They already have the SDF.

  • -1

    Outta here

    Thomas Anderson

    "Japan cannot protect themselves" They already have the SDF.

    And as the earlier poster said " Japan cannot protect themselves" even with their SDF.....

    • Moderator

      All readers back on topic please. Your posts should focus on the nighttime drinking restrictions.

  • 7

    sfjp330

    Betraythetrust!Nov. 27, 2012 - 09:43AM JSTbut the inbuilt defense mechanisms of most military huys due to environment causes a lack of empathy with those who disagree with them.

    I guess you must never served in the military. When you go through Basic, AIT, and eventually permanent MOS duty assignments, it is not easy relocating to a new cramp surroundings. It is stressful for many of these young soldiers. I doubt you could handle the stress of being in the military. Majority of the U.S. citizens have utmost respect of these men and women that gives their lives for their country. These servicemen in Japan much less committ less crime in percentage than the civilian population, but they are contantly criticized. Sure, there are some few bad apples, but 99 percent are good people.

  • 3

    sidesmile

    Could this be the tolling of the bell for US forces in Japan? I doubt it. These stories always bring the "America out!" crowd from under their stones. If (and its a big if) the US military throws up its hands, admits defeat and leaves Japan it would be a bad thing. The nuts who cant see the worth of having the Americans here would be stuck for something to whinge about...until, for example, the Chinese come knocking a little closer than the Senkakus that is. As for the drinking curfew..it looks nice on headed paper but as a few posters above have pointed out its unlikely to change anything other than the speed at which folks drink and/or at what time they start. In actual fact there isnt a great deal anyone can do about drinking (im not going to label it a problem) short of banning the sale of alcohol to any non-japanese off base..and that would definetely be a problem. Its practically impossible to enforce this latest curfew. All the US can do is hope that it kerbs the majority of the idiot element. I feel sorry for the sensible masses in Japan right now.

  • 3

    Mark Elrod

    Technically, service members are not supposed to consume any alcohol within eight hours prior to duty, which typically covers the times involved (for most watch standers). However, it's been extended to cover all days (non-duty) & leave status.

    Just imagine if the Japanese government told ALL Japanese people that they cannot drink between the hours of 11 p.m. & 5 a.m., because two Japanese guys raped a woman & some drunk ojisan unrinated in an Internet cafe.

  • -5

    saidani

    Just imagine if the Japanese government told ALL Japanese people that they cannot drink between the hours of 11 p.m. & 5 a.m., because two Japanese guys raped a woman & some drunk ojisan unrinated in an Internet cafe.

    Irrelevant. You are comparing the free citizens of a sovereign Japan with a foreign volunteer military who are guests in Japan and ambassadors for the American people (according to the Japan forces CO).

  • 5

    Leonard Carlson

    Only time will tell how a no drink order will affect the Navy. You can keep piling on restriction but you will always have people who break them. At some point in time enough is enough. As an E5 with 9 years of services, that's not my choice to make. I can voice an opinion at the appropriate time. There is a reason the guys with 1-4 Stars and 30-40 years of service are in the position they are in. To give the no drink order when they deem necessary. So for now I will follow the orders placed by my Leadership. If I chose to break those orders I will have to suffer the consequences if caught.

  • 0

    JapanGal

    Atsugi base on lock down. Are they going to check ID's at the club, or put an arm band around each service member.

    Sir, you must go home now, but your wife and kids can stay to finish their dinner.

  • 3

    Alphaape

    There is a very simple explanation for WHY you and everyone else hasnt heard anything recently on the news.

    @ Yubaru: Why don't you go back through some of the stories about the case a few years ago in Okinawa about the Hadnott sailor who assualted a young Japanese girl. It was major news until the story of the girls background came to light and then all of a sudden, the press interest vanished. Same thing about the Army soldier there in Okinawa who supposedley raped a "buy me Drink" girl from a Phillipine club. It was big news until they found out that she was not in the country legally and wasn't Japanese. It has been over 23 days, enough time for the prosecutors to make a decision to bring the case to trial, and yet we still have not heard any news.

  • 0

    Kazuaki Shimazaki

    It is frankly, time for the US to drop the "SOFA shield" for their personnel. The main, non-arrogant argument for it is that Japan's legal protection standard for the defendant means that there is a necessity to protect American servicemen's rights.

    On the other hand, it means America takes collective responsibility for its serviceman's actions. That's what happens when you insist on what is extraterritoriality by a different name.

    There's debate on exactly how bad the SOFA is. Some say the lack of arrests by Japanese policemen is voluntary. Others point to secret protocols. And some claim there would be some jurisdictional problems.

    All right, but to me here's the bottom line. The main publicizable reason for the SOFA, of protecting the servicemen rights, plain is not happening with all these curfews and drinking restrictions. We are talking a net negative here.

    So I say the solution is for the US to give up the SOFA protect, and in exchange, treat the crimes as individual rather than collective acts.

  • 3

    Mark Elrod

    @Kazuaki Shimazaki: Actually, service members under the SOFA agreement get punished more than a regular U.S. citizen. As a U.S. citizen in Japan, I had more rights than as a U.S. citizen in Jpaan under SOFA. I am speaking from experience. After the military, I taught English in Chiba, then I started working on base & they made me surrender my spouse visa. I acutually have less personal rights & more restrictions under SOFA than I had under my spouse visa. I am esentially in "no-man's land," right now. SOFA doesn't cover certain rights I had under my spouse visa.

    Additionally, service members are punshed for a crime twice. I knew a Marine, who was in Okinawa (surprize, surprize). He & his buddy beat up a Navy ooifcer, stole his money & leather jacket off base. He was aressted, spent about a month in a Japanese jail, then after his release form Japanese jail, he was Court Marshalled, put in the brig for three months, & dischared from the Marines with a bad-conduct discharge, which has followed him all of his life & made it difficult for him to get a decent job.

    Most of the the time, for serious crimes, offenders are turned over to Japanese authorities & serve time in Japanese prison. Afterward, they still receive the same treatment, time in a brig Court Marshall loss of all benefits, & bad-conduct discharge.

    A bad-conduct discharge follows a veteran forever. It makes it hard for them to find a decent job. Trust me, service members are held to a higher standard than normal U.S. citizens. You just don't see it, because once they aer out of the Japanese-public eye, they are "out-of-sight, out-of-mind." However, the reprucussions for their actions are lifelong.

  • 0

    Mark Elrod

    Damn typos!

  • -4

    T-Mack

    "The patrols include plain-clothes service members from all branches who walk the streets of the city between 11 p.m. and 5:30 a.m. Similar teams already patrol areas around major bases on the island".......................It wont be long before these people "plain clothes" will be getting drunk, living it up, and making a nuisance, who will poke a stick at them,( "police them") . BS to me, let me spend my money in Japan,...ex-navy vet. scotch drinker extraordinare!!! Love Japanese whisky as well...and night time is when everybody like's to do it!!!.................a few fool's ruin it for all....!!!

  • 0

    Saketown

    I think the measure by CFAY & CFAS to secure Liberty at 0000 and Alchohol Consumption at 2200 is necessary for now, but I am worried about the bars in Sasebo's Sailortown and Yokosuka's Hancho that will lose business due to this measure. I just hope things get better, so everyone can have a nice time.

  • -1

    AKBfan

    How are sailors based in Japan "Securing Liberty"?

  • 1

    megosaa

    Funny when we was on a girls' night out last night (Moai), we saw a few military boys in the night club we were at on Kokusai Street. The time was after 1am, so i guess the curfew really didn't mean a thing at all.

  • 0

    jansob1

    This will shut a lot of bars and restaurants down for lack of business. But the Japanese are demanding 100% perfection from tens of thousands of people, so they will have to put up with the side effects of measures taken to achieve this unprecedented behavior. No tears from me.

    I would also like to see an end any and all community activities....there's always the chance that that sort of fraternization could lead to fights or misconduct, so it's best to just shut it down. Don't worry, the Japanese won't miss them, they're just foreign ruffians anyway.

    But again, since the demands are so high, it seems like the US is not really wanted or needed, so let's get out!

  • -3

    realdoll

    If you would stay out past curfew, wouldn't you also drink? Just another rule.. right?

  • -3

    YuriOtani

    First the new order and think it is STUPID! The thing is not to issue orders that probably will be ignored. You can close down the clubs, you can monitor barracks and send out patrols to check off base clubs. It will be next to impossible to monitor their private quarters and hotel rooms.

    Also the people of Japan do not have to follow the orders of the US military. They will serve military personnel at their pleasure. The thing to do is keep the courtesy patrols out of your establishment. I will call the police myself and claim they were harassing the bar and customers.

  • 1

    daveyb

    Forgive my ignorance. But just how do they expect to enforce this. As non Military and non American, if I'm sitting in some pub in Okinawa could I expect to have some random team of undercover super sleuths asking me if I'm active duty personel or something? I suspect not, so just how does one identify military personel if they are out on the lash?

    I do feel sorry for all the normal blokes who can't even have a beer past 10pm due to a few tools in the shed, every military and society as we know has these.

  • 1

    Dennis Bauer

    if they ignore the curfew this new order will also won't do much good. Bring back the discipline!

  • 1

    Outta here

    YuriOtani,

    Im confused, when something happens on Okinawa you are calling for US blood yet when the US military implements a strategy to reduce the incidents you call for the locals to ignore or actually hinder it. Then when there is another incident you revert back to calling for blood. Then another strategy is implemented and you are back again calling on the locals to hinder the initiatives to reduce the incidents. I just dont get your approach. Apart from wanting the US out of Japan the is.

    Maybe they should oblige you and move to another country and leave Japan to its own devices.....

  • -1

    T-Mack

    Retail sale's will go up!!!! ...club sale's will go down, time to reinvest in retail Booze...trouble in Japan will go down...???? ............ kampai!!!! ..............NOT!!!..........your trouble's have just doubled, there will be more trouble with men who always escape, and avoid, and think they are above it all.....my prayer's and thought's...go out,.......... top shelf to you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!..........again for a few idiot's all suffer, we are a team of Idiot's....problem solved.........Top brass my *ss.....................down with kill it all thinking....barbarians, and educated's know nothing Brass....this will just fan the flame's..............................this will stop all the trouble!!!....................NOT!!!

  • -2

    T-Mack

    God govern's men, men govern men, men govern themselve's, there is alway's a fool to find, who will alway's find a flaw in this kind of thinking....That is why I got out of the navy and the only reason, Idiot's govern genious, and fool's rush in. more worthless thinking..............they will alway's find a way to fool the "MAN" buttload of laugh's to me....I drink, I am, find me out................!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!.. curfew or not.......... worthless chatter.....ha ha ha....

  • 0

    YuriOtani

    Outta here it is a question of sovereignty. There was a time when the US military made all of the laws for Okinawa. We would have to obey them. I do not like obeying the US military in Okinawa. If I were to visit one of their bases would follow their rules.

    The big part is the curfew and no drinking is not going to prevent the next rape. What would have a difference is for the US military to know their troops. If someone is a crime risk downtown they should be restricted to on base or even discharged. Mass punishment never works and a felon does not worry about breaking rules.

  • 1

    Mark Elrod

    @megosaa: For one, you are assuming they are service members, just because they are not Asian. If you think there are service member who are in violation of the curfew contact the installation security & report it & give the location of the last time they were seen. Two, they may not have been service members at all. They might have been civilian contractors, DoD civilian employees, or civilians not associated with the military at all, in which case the curfew does not apply to them.

  • 2

    Mark Elrod

    @jansob:You are correct. I had a conversation with an owner of a restaurant that I go to frequently. He stays open late to make money off of the people who are out having a good time. He told me that the curfew is hurting his business & he is losing money. Additionally, Japanese media are causing a problem, because they know service members frequent the establishment. They have been showing up with cameras, attempting to corner service members for interviews, which is scaring service members away from his restaurant.

  • -1

    Yubaru

    Part of the problem is that with the 4 services all being represented here in Japan a joint policy needs to be put into place. There is no way without actually checking individual ID cards, of knowing who is of which branch of what service.

    The big part is the curfew and no drinking is not going to prevent the next rape

    You are right it won't, and it's already (sadly) happened.

  • -8

    noriyosan73

    The USA government needs to reduce their salaries. They have too much money to spend on "recreation." They need to spend it on the military base or GET OFF THE ISLAND. Is Okinawa the only place that rape, intoxication and other inappropriate behavior occur. The Japanese people do not have accept this problem.

  • 4

    irishosaru

    @daveyb

    I'm not American or military, but occasionally drink in Yokosuka, which has lots of US military and bars to cater for them.

    I've been asked many many times over the last few years, by both US military police/military patrol (whatever they are called) and by bar staff if I am military, because of some drinking/curfew restrictions.

    When I tell them I'm not military, I'm politely left alone to get even more wasted.

  • -3

    Tiger_In_The_Hermitage

    So they can't even drink at home? How are we to know? Its just public relations, no enforcement and another incident will soon arise.

  • -2

    saidani

    This is nothing more than an attempt by these clowns to put the blame on the enlisted men/women, when the blame rests at the feet of the Navy brass itself, who make no attempt to try and educate educate the majority as to how to conduct oneself properly in Japan

    Sad, their mothers didn't teach them that getting drunk, assaulting women, trespassing, stealing, beating up teenagers, etc., was not how one conducts himself in society, whether it be Japanese or anywhere else? The "brass" needs to do that?

    A former Marine Sergeant-Major (a friend) stationed on Okinawa once complained that the Marine Corps tore young men apart to rid them of the lessons their mothers taught them, then rebuilt them to be Marines, taught them how to kill, to defend the Corps, to feel the pride of being a Marine above all else, then turned them loose on a society that was unprepared for them. Could you expect the "brass" who came up through the same system to act differently?

  • 4

    David43515

    @ Betraythetrust:I have encountered many serviceman from around the world including retired, the worst offenders for loutish, loud and brash behaviour were the Americans now or recently served. The older ones seemed more clued up. The facts are the military is here to serve US interests and picks many thugs from the bottom of society to make up the numbers.

    I would gladly pay extra taxes to compensate Japanese businesses from US custom and keep the streets safer as i am sure many also would.

    I'll be the first to admit that not all American service personel are the cream of society, but given the number of servicemen here who actually commit crimes or cause trouble versus the number of trouble making Japanese men the same age, A Japanese woman has a LOT more to fear if she runs into a Japanese on the street than she does if she runs into a U.S. Sailor or Marine. I think the last statistics I saw said A Japanese was 3 times more likely to commit rape or assault. The trains don't have women only cars because we're here.

  • 1

    MoBass4u

    I will call the police myself and claim they were harassing the bar and customers.

    Yuri: Please correct me if I'm wrong but you would make this claim if it weren't the case? They are VERY aware of this and only enter a bar that has given prior permission or if a situation were in progress. The bars that Americans frequent welcome it up here. They come in, observe and move on.

  • 1

    telecasterplayer

    The morons knew they were doing wrong. It doesn't require an extraordinary amount of common sense to know that you're not supposed to break into strangers homes, punch kids, rape girls, et cetera.

    I don't buy all this whinging over the "innocent" servicemembers who can't go out and get drunk and carouse around Okinawa. Tough. That's not what you signed on for, and that's not what we're paying you to do.

    Ask yourselves and your branch why morons who can't be trusted to act like human beings keep winding up in the mix and in positions where they can do wrong.

  • 1

    tokyoguy719

    **No more night time drinking! So drinking during the day will become the next issue?? ** I think by punishing everyone and creating unnecessary rules they are just setting themselves up for further failure and embarrasement.

  • -2

    saidani

    I don't buy all this whinging over the "innocent" servicemembers who can't go out and get drunk and carouse around Okinawa. Tough.

    Indeed. Sad and boring is the life of a man who finds excessive drinking to be a primary entertainment.

  • -2

    YuriOtani

    The bars do not want to give them permission but the base people threaten placing their bars "off limits". They are not welcome but the bar owners are afraid. This has always been how the base people deal with off base people. I suppose they could do this to get bars to enforce their policies as well. Sell alcohol to a SOFA person after 10pm and get placed off limits. This is the way of the base being a bully.

  • 5

    Ms. Alexander

    Whether some of you like it or not, the US military isn't going away. They are here to stay. The higher officials acknowledge there is a problem with their troops and are trying to do something about it. First, they enforced the curfew. Now the USN is enforcing a no-drinking policy. While this may not stop the criminal activities, at least, the higher ups are trying to control it. There is no doubt about that.

    And to those who are bad-mouthing Americans, just because you're in the US military doesn't mean you're trouble. Just because you're American, doesn't mean you're a rapist. Rapists come in all nationalities. If someone is capable of rape, he's gonna do it - with or without the help of alcohol.

  • 2

    jansob1

    Yuri, you want the bases gone but you don't want any damage to the businesses that depend on them? If you get your way, and the bases leave, a lot of bars will close for good. But you pretend to be worried that they might get placed off limits. This is the perfect example of the Japanese mentality on the bases. "We want them out, but we want their business."

    The bars are what attracts the sailors offbase. You should be pushing to have them shut down completely, or have them ALL placed off limits. They'd stay on base and drink and not be out bothering people.

  • 2

    Serrano

    10:05pm at Admiral Swift's home at Yokosuka:

    Admiral Swift: Admiral, would you like a drink?

    Admiral Weigold: Sure, what kind of soda do you have?

    Admiral Swift: I got Coke, Mountain Dew and root beer.

    Admiral Weigold: Well, I need something stiff - gimme a Mountain Dew!

  • 0

    lucabrasi

    A question for military types out there: Does the word "sailors" refer to all members of the navy, or is it just the non-officer class, the same as the word "men" denotes non-officers in the army?

  • 0

    megosaa

    Mark ElrodNOV. 27, 2012 - 01:16PM JST @megosaa: For one, you are assuming they are service members, just because they are not Asian.

    LMAO.. you would think i only been on the island for a few years? anyone lived here long enough will know the difference between active servicemen and contracted civvies.. LOL

    there's was also a few tell-tales that screamed "us military" but i do not think it relevant for this thread.

  • 1

    Mark Elrod

    @lucabrasi: Some officer get offended when you call them Sailors, but in my opinion, if your job entails you working on a ship, out at sea, you are a Sailor.

  • -3

    Tom DeMicke

    Mark Elrod... you are so right! Spot on! I'm retired military non-SOFA and would never accept a job on any base in Japan if it meant giving up my Permanent Residence Status. Some of these restrictions (if not most) apply even to retirees who work on base with SOFA. However, retirees not under SOFA are exempt. Lots of "do this, don't do that" for SOFA both active and non-active duty. And yes...for a former English teacher, you did have a lot of typos, but I know it was the keyboard ;-). I have the same problem. God bless everyone here and hang in there military, 99.9% of you are doing a splendid job and that goes for military family members and civilians and their family members too!

  • 1

    USNinJapan2

    lucabrasi

    A question for military types out there: Does the word "sailors" refer to all members of the navy, or is it just the non-officer class, the same as the word "men" denotes non-officers in the army?

    Speaking for the US DOD, we refer to all members of the Army, Air Force, Navy, and Marine Corps as Soldiers, Airmen, Sailors, and Marines respectively regardless of rank or function.

  • 0

    USNinJapan2

    Tom DeMicke

    Some of these restrictions (if not most) apply even to retirees who work on base with SOFA. However, retirees not under SOFA are exempt.

    How are retirees and civilian base employees affected? The curfew and related restrictions currently in place are applicable to active duty military personnel only.

  • 0

    avigator

    I propose a total reclusion on base with no money spent off-base even on vegetables. Build more house on base and keep as many people on base. Spend as little of your hard earned money in Japan so they think about it twice about their continuous whining. Just like Gen Hailstone and Consul Maher referred to them.

  • 1

    lucabrasi

    @Mark & USN

    Thanks for the info. So our British use of "officers and men" is a symptom of our still, sadly, intense obsession with class in the UK.

  • -1

    technosphere

    Whether some of you like it or not, the US military isn't going away. They are here to stay. The higher officials acknowledge there is a problem with their troops and are trying to do something about it. First, they enforced the curfew. Now the USN is enforcing a no-drinking policy. While this may not stop the criminal activities, at least, the higher ups are trying to control it. There is no doubt about that.

    How bravely it sounds, huh! Okinawa is not a 50 plus- whatever- else state of the USA. All they need is to gather slightly more people on protest rallies and permanently block all roads to gates of your bases. Then they should refuse to provide any sort of service to your personnel. And you will sing another songs :-)

  • 2

    sailwind

    USN

    How are retirees and civilian base employees affected? The curfew and related restrictions currently in place are applicable to active duty military personnel only.

    Can't really speak for all retirees in Japan, but I believe this affects a retiree such as my old self in not so much has having to be under the curfew or the related restrictions, but in the same way it affects anyone who is now serving on active duty.

    When one of our Sailors decides to dishonor his service to our nation by breaking laws or acting out as a drunken fool, he not only dishonors himself, he dishonors and drags all US Navy members down and that includes even those of us such as myself who no longer wear the uniform. It affects me because I also know that 99.9 percent of those who currently serve are some of the finest people on the planet and saddened to see them all punished once again because the 1/10th decided that the core values of Honor, Courage and Commitment was something they could just to pay lip service to after all.

    I've never been a fan of mass punishment, always felt it is self defeating in the end as you end up denying those who should be justly rewarded for doing good things both on base and off base from continuing their good individual efforts or even lowering their morale or motivation to continue to do good things. Though I also do truly understand the need to show positive firm action by the upper Chain of Command that the Navy is serious about this and is being pro-active in the effort by imposing this 10 pm booze ban.

  • 1

    USNinJapan2

    sailwind

    Well said and I absolutely agree with you. My comment was in response to Tom DeMicke's concerns about the effect of these punitive restrictions on civilians and retirees and judging by his post I'm pretty sure his issues with them aren't as admirable as yours...

  • 1

    MoBass4u

    sailwind: Well said from one former military man to another. It saddens me when they cut up like this. It truly takes away from all who are doing the right thing.

  • 1

    hidingout

    I had a conversation with an owner of a restaurant that I go to frequently. He stays open late to make money off of the people who are out having a good time. He told me that the curfew is hurting his business & he is losing money

    No sympathy with the businesses that lose money over this whole fiasco. You want the Americans out? This is just a taste of how bankrupt Okinawa will be if the American military ever pulls out of there. And lets be honest, at this point who would blame them if they did.

    For the record I am not American, nor am I in any way affiliated with the military. I'm just a regular gaijin who's happy to have the US men and women watching our backs in case anything ever goes down.

  • 0

    mdepaiva

    How ridiculous can you get? I wonder how the Navy plans on enforcing this no drinking in your home between 10PM and 8AM policy. Maybe send the base police to everyone's home to check on them? Or maybe instituting something akin to what the Nazis and Communists governments did. Ask neighbors to spy on each other.

  • 0

    MoBass4u

    The bars do not want to give them permission

    And you know this how? Did you poll them? Really, I would like to know how you know this. If it is a fact then my apologies but I seriously doubt that ALL bars would not allow access.

  • -1

    TheDevilsAssistant

    The trains don't have women only cars because we're here.

    Oh my! i cringe at the thought if drunk soldiers were a majority of passengers on a Japanese train system

  • 1

    mdepaiva

    Sailwind: I agree with a lot of what you said. I spent 22 years on active duty and have been retired for over 30 years now. In my years on active duty I've seen the clubs on base being closed as a punitive action. I've even seen entire towns put off limits. But I never heard of any restrictions on drinking in your own home. Maybe back when you and I were on active duty the military could get away with this, but today there is an entirely different breed of person on active duty. Letters to Congress are forth coming, and you take my word for it.

  • 0

    Matthew Simon

    USNinJapan these restrictions have no effect on civilians resident or SOFA. FYI. These measures are only in affected for active duty and reserve military members in Japan.

  • 3

    Fadamor

    FYI, the enforcement will only happen after the fact. If some sailor who has a house off-base does something and it turns out he was drinking in his home after 10 p.m., then he can say "goodbye" to off-base housing privileges. If his wife and kids were also at the house, they get shipped back to the States because the odds of there being available family housing on-base are slim to none.

    As was pointed out earlier, when you're in the military, you are subject to ALL of their rules no matter how arbitrary. Those that think this is too extreme have only the morons who continued to cause trouble when tempers were already raised to thank. This is not the military command's fault, this is the idiots who can't take a hint's fault.

    Of course, this won't affect the idiots who are doing stupid stuff while sober (like climbing on other people's roofs "to practice backflips.")

  • -1

    YuriOtani

    Matthew the US military can do nothing to the retired military and non SOFA. There is only so much they can do to SOFA civilians. Oh for reservists they are only in effect when they are on duty. That is when they are on active duty for training or doing their weekend duty. .

  • -1

    Matthew Simon

    Actually Yuri retired individuals collecting money from the government still can be charged under the UCMJ and have their privileges revoked.

  • -3

    YuriOtani

    Matthew if a retired military person stays off the American bases there is nothing they can do. The MP's can not go to their residence and search, they can not tell them what to do or where to go. Retired people who are legal residents of Japan enjoy the protection of the state against intrusive American base officials. It is all very well in good they order around their military. Where it crosses the line is when they expect our silent obedience.

    Think Okinawa needs to do more to protect the community from power mad American officials. This new order is well proof they can not lead. It will not be obeyed especially by the higher ups. Do you have any ideal of the effect of issuing an order that will not be obeyed? Remember this Japanese bar owner and employees as well as residents of Japan are not under the orders of the American bases. We are a free people and the Americans are no longer our overseers. Yes the SOFA needs to be redone, NO American MP's off base in a duty status, no thug patrols.

  • 1

    Kumamoto-jo

    The U.S. Navy will never change. Instead of dealing with the people causing the problem--PUNISH EVERYBODY

  • -1

    saidani

    The U.S. Navy will never change. Instead of dealing with the people causing the problem--PUNISH EVERYBODY

    Funny, the US military seems to be an exclusive club of highly trained and disciplined men and women who are trained to work together, to depend on others in the club, and to share the pride of being in the club. At least, until it is convenient for them not to be, it appears. So, which is it?

  • 2

    Fadamor

    The U.S. Navy will never change. Instead of dealing with the people causing the problem--PUNISH EVERYBODY.

    Until the sailors stop doing stupid stuff in a foreign country, YEP! I'm ex-navy and I had to exist under a martial law curfew when we were in Subic Bay, Phillippines (Marcos was in power back then). The funny thing is we managed to go out, get drunk, carouse, and get indoors in time for the curfew. We knew what had to be done and we did it. Those that ignored the law didn't last long. The Cubi Point naval airbase was right across the bay and the navy had no qualms about confining you to the ship or packing you up and flying you back to the states rather than risk another violation of curfew. If your shipmate misbehaves, the next question is why you LET him misbehave? So yeah, you're being restricted from alcohol because others can't seem to control themselves. You want the restrictions to ease? Start taking responsibility and getting these guys cut off before they become problems for others.

  • 3

    Fadamor

    I WILL say that I find it interesting that this article is listed in the "Crime" section. What part of the alcohol prohibition involves a criminal act?

    I could see it listed in "National", but... maybe it's been a slow day for real crime, huh?

    Moderator: It is a crime-prevention measure. That means it goes in the Crime section.

  • 1

    sfjp330

    YuriOtani Nov. 28, 2012 - 01:33AM JST if a retired military person stays off the American bases there is nothing they can do.

    This is not going to happen. The retired military person has a privilage to shop at the commissaries, hospitals, and other amenites that is offered at the base. No retired person will give this up.

  • 0

    Leonard Carlson

    mdepaiva

    How ridiculous can you get? I wonder how the Navy plans on enforcing this no drinking in your home between 10PM and 8AM policy. Maybe send the base police to everyone's home to check on them? Or maybe instituting something akin to what the Nazis and Communists governments did. Ask neighbors to spy on each other.

    The power of random recalls. The Commander can direct a recall having everyone in his command come in for an urinalysis. I'm sure he can have Senior NCO's check for individuals they believe to be under the influence of alcohol. At that point it's as simple as administering a breathalyzer or having a blood test done.

    The hard part will be proving how much and when the alcohol was consumed. If a guy had 10 shots of Vodka at 2159 it will still be in his system for up to 10 hours. Where people get into trouble is lying to Leadership or opening their mouth about something. If ever accused keep your mouth shut and don't lie. Seek legal help if ever read your rights or faced with questioning about something like this.

    If they want to do the no drinking order the correct way... no drinking 24 hours a day... That way there is no question as to how much/when the alcohol was consumed. If it's in your systems you are hung out to dry.

    In the past I've been apart of 2 Squadron wide recalls for urinalysis. One was for the very reason listed above and the other was when "Spice" was becoming a new craze.

  • -2

    sfjp330

    Leonard Carlson Nov. 28, 2012 - 05:25AM JST If they want to do the no drinking order the correct way... no drinking 24 hours a day..

    Which is impossible and it's never going to happen. How low do you want to go? Build 40,000 cells and put them in during the night? Then you would have transparency this way?

  • 1

    Leonard Carlson

    sfjp330

    Which is impossible and it's never going to happen. How low do you want to go? Build 40,000 cells and put them in during the night? Then you would have transparency this way?

    I'm speaking from experience... While stationed in Korea my Commander issued a General Order 1 (no drinking). This lasted for over a month and the intention was to keep the Squadron in a state of readiness (around the same time N. Korea was starting lots of trouble). Also, during peninsula wide exercise all of Korea is on General Order 1.

    Every individual who broke General Order 1 and got caught is currently out of the Military. In the case of my friends and I it worked. We found other activities to do and filled our time to avoid the desire to drink.

    It's actually simple. Most all of the crime/misbehaviors committed since the rape/curfew started were done under the influence of alcohol. This trend shows that a small percentage of individuals cannot control their alcohol. This privilege could be taken away until it was proven that those small percentage of individuals could control their alcohol intake.

    No need to have cells for 40,000. If 1 Squadron did a random 6am recall and people were drunk. They would be made an example of and I would hope others would stop drinking. Until the order was lifted at least.

    Mass punishment does have its time and place. A good example would be from the first half of the movie "Full Metal Jacket". One individual is having trouble in basic training. The instructor punishes everyone and in turn everyone else ensures the one individuals gets his stuff together. If we looked out for each other and stepped in when needed, many of these crimes would not happen.

  • -1

    saidani

    I wonder how the Navy plans on enforcing this no drinking in your home between 10PM and 8AM policy. Maybe send the base police to everyone's home to check on them? Or maybe instituting something akin to what the Nazis and Communists governments did. Ask neighbors to spy on each other.

    In fact, you are required to spy on your neighbors to see if they are following the drinking ban. Your Commander in Chief has made this a policy by his "If you see something, say something" policy. But, beyond that, wouldn't it be in your best interest to monitor those in your unit who might cause you to suffer additional restrictions?

  • 2

    Matthew Simon

    These blanket policies solve nothing, but put yourselves in the Admiral's shoes. What choice do they have? Sailors are screwing up, Okinawan's are demanding blood. You have to show that you are trying to do something. This is really the only avenue open to them and it is an avenue that if everyone obeys it you look good. But if everyone doesn't (which is far more likely) you are screwed and look stupid. As far as enforcing it goes, most of the people in the military are honorable and will follow this order, those that don't and weren't going to anyway won't and they will either get away with it or give JT some more news stories. Its that simple. Its the analogous as laws against drugs in Japan, yes weed is illegal but that doesn't mean people don't smoke it, and if they do and get caught well then they get punished. Another thing is also in the military you are supposed to stop others when they are doing wrong, especially if you are in a leadership position. If you don't have the fortitude to step up and let someone know they are wrong you shouldn't be wearing a uniform.

    Leonard in that movie that individual they tried to correct became a murderer and committed suicide, probably not the best example to give.

  • 0

    Matthew Simon

    Yuri what the hell are you talking about thug patrols? You really thinly veil your hatred for the US military. I don't understand where this hatred is coming from.

  • 0

    sfjp330

    Leonard Carlson....At this time, there is no state of readiness or emergency that is necessary in Japan. These 40,000 plus military personnel actually have much less crime percentage than the general public. This is nothing more than politics and PR work toward Japan.

  • 2

    Alphaape

    Can't really speak for all retirees in Japan, but I believe this affects a retiree such as my old self in not so much has having to be under the curfew or the related restrictions, but in the same way it affects anyone who is now serving on active duty.

    @ sailwind: As you mentioned in a later post, the only way it affects you if you try to buy a drink at a base club after 2130, or buy liquor at the NEX on base. They have instituted last call at 2130 on the bases in Yokosuka for all clubs. Still there is no restriction for you as a retiree or as a SOFA civilian if that is your status on what you do at home or where you can go and at what time you can go.

  • -1

    YuriOtani

    Matthew substitute it for thinly veil dislike of MP's and you would be correct. I like most of the troops and the vast majority are good people. A lot of them go out of their way to help. Am very happy as to how these cases are being handled. The Navy is overeating to this problem. Using group punishment instead of finding out who has problems and dealing with them. It is so much easier to issue a blanket order instead of taking care of the problem. Leadership and Discipline are the problems and it seems to come from the top down. The military needs to take care of their people from 1st line supervisor to the commander of Japan Forces. If a sailor has a problem his shipmates and leadership should be looking for it and then helping the person before it becomes crime.

  • -3

    LH10

    haha! take that!

  • -1

    MoBass4u

    It is so much easier to issue a blanket order instead of taking care of the problem.

    Your post was good until I came upon this little gem. The way you swing back and forth is.........confusing but I respect your views. You never answered an earlier question. Blanket statements are rampant on this matter but instead of seeing that the problem lies with the VERY few too many throw us all in the rotten apple pile.

  • 1

    Leonard Carlson

    sfjp330

    Leonard Carlson....At this time, there is no state of readiness or emergency that is necessary in Japan. These 40,000 plus military personnel actually have much less crime percentage than the general public. This is nothing more than politics and PR work toward Japan.

    Keep in mind this is all my opinion. I was simply stating previous times when a no drinking order clearly worked from my point of view. For this current situation I don't think it's the best idea. Mainly because I like to drink and would hate my privilege taken away because others were stupid... However, if I were in a Commanders point of view, I would of made the order 24 hours. Too many variables go into play when they put time limitations on it. You make it completely dry for a couple of weeks and most people will be honest and follow the order. Those who don't and get caught will quickly be out of the Military.

    On a side note. The percentage of the 40,000 service members compared to the civilian populate who commit a crime is pointless in my opinion. When I signed the contract, I knew I would be held to a higher standard than the civilian population. I would hope we would have a lower percentage of crime committed...

  • 2

    Leonard Carlson

    Continued...

    Although, it may very well be politics or PR. I have no factual data or knowledge of decisions made at higher level. I can only speculate and interpret from what I know or have seen. Hopefully, everyone at that level have the "people's" best interest in mind. Until we walk a mile in their shoe we can never really understand how hard it is to make those decisions.

    Anyone that has been in the Military more than a few years has had dozens of briefings about drinking and driving, not causing trouble, being an ambassador to the host country, being a good Wingman/Battle Buddy, preventing sexual assault, preventing suicide, practicing good decision making, bystander intervention training, and the list goes on... Fact is people either have a lapse of judgment or complete disregard for what they know to be the right thing to do.

  • 0

    D.j. KaRma

    I drank until 21:50 last night and It was great! And I didn't feel like getting crazy or violent...and I am in the military...hmmmm. Am I normal?

  • -4

    megosaa

    A U.S. Naval Forces spokesman said that active-duty sailors are prohibited from drinking alcohol from 10 p.m.- 8 a.m.

    Phew.. means they can start drinking from 0801HRS :D

  • -2

    realdoll

    YuriOtani, the military will put your establishment off limits to all military if you don't cooperate and enforce their rules.

  • 0

    Matthew Simon

    Yuri you realize there is a difference between an MP, shore patrol, and camp guard right? Those people patrolling the streets won't be MPs they will be people standing duty from their respective units.

  • -2

    Tom DeMicke

    USNinJapan2: The curfew applies not only to active duty personnel here in Okinawa but to all SOFA sponsored civilians and contractors including their families. They are, however, permitted to consume alcohol as long as they do so in their hotel room, off base private quarters, or anywhere on base. This is according to local AFN TV infomercials.

  • -1

    Tom DeMicke

    ** Correction ** The curfew at the very beginning did apply to civilians but that is no longer in effect. Indeed it only applies to active duty personnel stationed here and those that come over here on leave. What DOES apply to all DoD civilians, their families, and DoD contractors and their families is the "off limits" establishments. NO ONE with SOFA status may enter those establishments. Now back on topic ... I'm no longer sure what the answer is to all of this but I'm sure by early next year all will calm down and things may get back to normal if no one else commits any embarrassing crimes. Okay, now time for that beer!

  • 2

    Daniel Batenhorst

    the curfew never affected civilian SOFA personnel. I work in a HQ command where the restriction order was written /released....

  • 0

    Yubaru

    This even on RBC news they reported that a working committee consisting of all branches of the services, local communities and police got together for a meeting to discuss methods to assist each other in helping to alleviate the problems that have been recently occurring.

    The base folks made a request, it's not decided upon yet, to ask, and have off base establishments to have a direct line to contact the base in case ANY military member was out in their establishment after the curfew hours.

    (Personally speaking I hope the OFF base community tells the military to go to hell on this one. It is NOT the responsibility of any off base establishment to enforce any base rules or regulations, not to mention the fact that those businesses could also suffer as well if they rely on base customers. I highly doubt any military member would frequent any establishment that tattle-tailed on someone breaking the curfew.)

    Also discussions were held about the off base patrols, however no decisions, if any that were made, were broadcast.

    On a side note; I talked with a local Japanese police officer who is a friend of mine and who works in Naha, they do not like the idea of having these patrols walking around Naha, he feels that these patrols are problems just waiting to happen. They, the patrols, have ZERO authority to actually take any action against anyone, military or otherwise off base. If a service member, for example here, was stopped by one of these patrols, and forcibly apprehended and taken back to base, and if the police were in the area when it happened, the police MIGHT have to intervene on behalf of the military member breaking curfew, because the patrols have no authority to physically stop anyone from doing anything. They can walk the area's all they want, they can talk to people....it's a free country....but their ability to enforce anything RIGHT NOW is limited to just walking and talking.

  • 2

    Matthew Simon

    They can still give orders Yubaru, any military member who disobeys them would be digging. their own grave so to speak career wise.

  • -2

    YuriOtani

    realdoll sounds like a threat to me for not following the Americans commands. Maybe they can go back to the old "A" system in which the SOFA people could only shop in business that have these signs. Maybe they should just place the everything off base off limits.

    Matthew, it would be something if one of these "patrols" gets arrested by the Japanese Police. Of course to the military person they have to know who you are for it to be effective. So to the military person if you see a patrol, turn and walk away. Do not look at them or say a thing.

  • -1

    realdoll

    yuriotani, It's not a threat but the power they have over their people, to place them off limits to any establishment they choose... and your place would be off limits if you served them alcohol after hours. They can't force you to enforce their rules but if you don't, they can place your business off limits. :)

  • 0

    realdoll

    Yuri Otani, also they don't need an A system, everyone is an A, it's cheaper that way. They can hand an F on your establishment if you don't conform.

  • -3

    YuriOtani

    realdoll I do not take orders from the US military. First it starts with reporting soldiers. Next will come a log of what sold or served to them. I do think if Okinawa bars prohibited SOFA customers they could get new customers like tourists. Perhaps mainland people who could come to gate 2 street and after drinking stare at the Americans and their bases. We could set up special tours.

  • 1

    Konsta

    U.S. Navy restricts nighttime drinking by all personnel throughout Japan

    Even though this measure can be considered as a crime towards all personnel by some people, I think, that it is quite healthy, generally speaking, and I am not sure why it is put under the "Crime" sub-section.

  • 0

    Yubaru

    @realdoll.....I am quite sure that Yuri was referring to what was formerly in place here in Okinawa, what was once called the "A" sign. Military personnel were only allowed to enter businesses that placed an "A" sign in their window, otherwise EVERYWHERE else was considered off-limits.

  • -3

    YuriOtani

    Yabaru yes that is what I was referring. A business person had to conform to base standards and some say pay a commission (bribe) to the base people. It is the same with the housing office and off base housing. A "inspection" has to be done and I have heard the same no bribe no certification.

    real doll, I do hear what you are saying but do not think any of these measures will work. What does a rapists care if they break the no drinking rule? They will always find ways of getting alcohol and drugs. So what all of this does is put a burden on honest Okinawa business and honest American Service Persons. The local people see the patrols not in comfort but fear. The perception is the Americans claiming the entire island.

    Oh one thing I heard was service people who have been involved in previous alcohol incidents may not leave the base without permission.

  • 1

    D.j. KaRma

    If you're life doesn't consist of being out at a bar drinking every night between the hours of 2200-0800, then I'm gonna say you're probably not stressin' out too much about the new policy.

  • -1

    realdoll

    yubaru, yes I am aware of the A sign.. but thought it would save cardboard signs by assuming if they didn't have an "F" then they were automatically an A. In fact that is how it is now, noplace is offlimits unless it is on the off limits posting from the commander.

    Yuri Otani, American commanders seem to still be under the notion that they have power and Okinawans and Japanese need their business. In fact they are wrong. I know guys that own businesses and they say that a few weeks of a curfew and new customers start arriving, Okinawans who usually don't bring their families to certain areas where americans are talking loud and gawking at their wife and daughters. After the curfew ends, the establishments get "taken over" by the americans again.

  • 0

    Hayden Wellstone

    Cue this blowing up in the Navy's face in 3...2...1...

    stupid. Stupid. STUPID!

    What are they really trying to accomplish here. Why don't they just hand out flyers to the Sailors saying the Japanese don't like you. It'd be quicker. Crimeny, these people are monumentally stupid.
    You don't solve a problem by adding more stress and ill will to the mix. The brass is taking away the squids opportunities to work off some of the stress they accumulate during the day and then they get surprised when something bad happens. Then, they take Sailors who LIKE living in Japan and force them back to the U.S. after a while, replacing them with people who don't really want to be here. Again, how stupid is that?
    The Navy is spending extra money to bring people to Japan that don't want to be here, expediting the cycle of violence and crime. Allow the people who want to stay to homestead. Not only will you automatically cut down the amount of crime committed by people bitter about being in Japan, but you will save money in PCSing them. Full disclosure, I am NOT a NASA scientist but I'm capable of seeing how to curb these liberty incidents. How is it that a team of so-called leaders can't figure it out? They can't ALL be academy grads. Absolutely moronic.
    Hey CNFJ, when this blows up in your face, what's next? Supervised liberty? Base lock down? Why is it I'm certain you'll take this stupid idea and double down on it. How in hell these guys got to be in charge of anything, let alone the Navy, boggles the mind.

  • -1

    jansob1

    Curfew should stay in place as is, but tightened....those living on base should be in by 8pm, in off-base by 11pm. New military arrivals should be restricted to base for 1 year. They will value liberty more when they get it. A single violation of curfew should remove leave privileges for the remainder of their posting in Japan.

    All SOFA personnel should be banned from drinking off-base or outside their homes. The onus should be on the SOFA people to obey their own rules. Don't make business owners do anything...if this means that some bars allow them in and allow them to drink, well, it's not their job to determine who's SOFA or military, they can serve who they want. A hotline should be publicized that anyone can use to report violations to the base. If Japanese customers are bothered by rowdies, they or the owner can call, and the base will respond. If SOFA people drink responsibly and don't cause problems, no one will report them and they won't be at much risk of getting caught...but it's a risk THEY take. All businesses should be off-limits to all SOFA personnel unless they put up their own "A" signs with no inspection needed. It puts the power in the owner's hands.

    If, as yuriotani says, most businesses don't need or want SOFA people, then they need do nothing and SOFA people will stay away...and if they don't the owners can call the base or the police to have them removed. Businesses that want SOFA customers can put up 10yen of cardboard and Sharpie.

    This will certainly cause some bars and restaurants to close, and reduce community involvement to zero, but them's the breaks. Military members should come to see Japan as a place they are present in due to political decisions (Tokyo wants to rent a military, the US wants bases here) but not welcomed by the locals. It's not likely that the bases will be here in 20 years, so best to start the process of reducing ties now.

  • -1

    Mark Elrod

    "noriyosan: 73Nov. 27, 2012 - 01:53PM JST

    The USA government needs to reduce their salaries. They have too much money to spend on "recreation." They need to spend it on the military base or GET OFF THE ISLAND. Is Okinawa the only place that rape, intoxication and other inappropriate behavior occur. The Japanese people do not have accept this problem."

    Um, that money they are spending on recreation is going into the Japanese economy. Japanese business owners are making money off of them.

  • -2

    Mark Elrod

    "telecasterplayerNov. 27, 2012 - 02:58PM JST

    I don't buy all this whinging over the "innocent" servicemembers who can't go out and get drunk and carouse around Okinawa. Tough. That's not what you signed on for, and that's not what we're paying you to do.

    Ask yourselves and your branch why morons who can't be trusted to act like human beings keep winding up in the mix and in positions where they can do wrong."

    Um, for one, the blanket punishment, that is punishing the majority of service members who do have respect for other people & can control themselves is only enforced overseas. Service members stationed in the United States who misbehave are punished, but only the offenders are punished, not service members in the entire region.

    You don't think that the actions, of these few idiots, doesn't infuriate the majority of service members? I can tell you that it does. Nobody wants to see someone associated with their service go out & do stupid things, because like what the majority of the people on this forum are doing is wrongfully judging ALL service members & assuming ALL service members are lawless idiots lacking self control.

    That is not the case. Many are loving husbands, wives, fathers, mothers. Some are young people with good hearts. But, they are all being punished by the DoD for what a few idiots have done. Additionally, they are wrongfully being judged & discriminated against by Japanese nationals.

    A small group of individuals proved that they cannot control themselves & have no respect for other people. It just so happens that those particular individuals are service members (son to be ex-service members, because we don't want those people in our services).

    Judge those individuals based on their actions, but don't judge all Americans, or service members based on the acts of a few. That is defined as prejudice.

  • -1

    Mark Elrod

    @jansob1: Actually, it has been made stricter. If a service member has ONE alcohol related incident they will be put on class "C" liberty INDEFINETLY.

    That includes someone coming from anothe4r command, who had an alcohol related incident. So, a new arrival, who got drunk & did something stupid ay a previous command will be placed on class "C" liberty indefinitely, as well.

  • -1

    Mark Elrod

    The "A" signs are to let service members know it is OK for them to go in without being punished. You can thank your Japanese police for this. The rerason some places are deemed off limits is because some promote prostitution (e.g. massage parlors & some "buy-me-drink," or hostess bars), as well as bars that serve under-age drinkers.

    If the Japanese police would crack down on protitution, instead of taking bribes from the Yakuza, or crack down on bars that serve under-age drinkers, there would be no need for the "A" signs. Until the police attain morals & do their jobs there will always be "A" signs down there.

  • -1

    MoBass4u

    A business person had to conform to base standards and some say pay a commission (bribe) to the base people. It is the same with the housing office and off base housing. A "inspection" has to be done and I have heard the same no bribe no certification.

    I heard it was the "local hires" that practiced this.

  • -2

    realdoll

    Local hires? What do you mean? Not sure what you're talking about. American civilians hired locally, not transfered from civil service stateside are called "local hire". MLC and IHA Japanese govt workers are GOJ employees paid by Japanese taxpayers.

  • 1

    realdoll

    Mark, The A signs of long ago were instituted by the US in Okinawa, stating that certain sanitary requirements were met in the establishment. There are no A signs now.

  • -1

    jansob1

    Actually, it has been made stricter. If a service member has ONE alcohol related incident they will be put on class "C" liberty INDEFINETLY.

    A good idea, but it should be the norm for all for the first year in Japan. Making Japan a less desirable post will have fewer people trying to get here, and reduce the desire for people to get out and mix with the locals...which the locals do not appear to like, with the exception of bar owners and buy-me-a-drink girls.

  • 0

    YuriOtani

    jansob1 seems a bit harsh and a lot of Marines are on 6 month rotation.

  • 0

    jansob1

    I think you can't have it both ways...either 1) make it nearly impossible for them to screw up, or 2) accept the fact that you can't create any group of tens of thousands of people in which there aren't some bad apples. Okinawans seem not to be able to accept 2), so 1) is the only solution as long as the bases stay.

    I'd actually say that Marines on 6-month rotations, with no time to learn about the culture, are far more likely to get in trouble than others. It makes sense to restrict them.

    I actually think that the drunk/criminal problem is largely a proxy the problem of the bases all being in Okinawa, but that will be seen as off-topic. If the problem is solved, even by draconian measures, it makes the real issue clearer.

  • 0

    Mark Elrod

    @Tom DeMicke: They tried imposing restrictions on civilians before, but it failed. Civilians complained about it. We, civilians, did not raise out right hands & volunteer our rights away. So, for them to try & take away rights & impose curfews on us, it has to come from a much higher authority than the military-commander level. In general, civilians are not the people out drinking excessively & causing trouble. That is probably because we are much older than these young service members who are away from home & from underneath the rule of their parents' thumbs. We have all seen this crap vefore, therefore are smart enough to stay out of trouble. ^_^

  • -4

    realdoll

    It's a lot to do with lonelyness. If you have a high ratio of men vs women (that'll have anything to do with you) you're going to find guys with nothing to do, so they'll drink, hate it there and be lonely. If you put too many dogs in a cage, they'll fight. The military crammed all these military on Okinawa and it can only be corrected by removing them, at least half of them. Okinawans could care less about Americans, don't necessarily hate them where they'd be violent to them but if they went out and never seen one, it wouldn't affect them one bit, they'd be happy. Okinawans will smile at your face if they have to talk to you but they'll vote for the anti base candidate who promises to continue the fight to downsized the military on Okinawa. Lots of Americans think they have a friend or two on Okinawa, they're blind and living in an illusion. Most that are married to Okinawans are being used, and she would have married another American just as easily.. just the facts jack! It's a shallow world and it takes most idiots 30+ yrs to admit it to themselves.

  • -2

    realdoll

    Mark, I remember when they tried to impose a curfew on the civilians.. I don't know what happened but I think someone wrote their congressman and got that overturned real quick.

  • 1

    Leonard Carlson

    realdoll

    Okinawans will smile at your face if they have to talk to you but they'll vote for the anti base candidate who promises to continue the fight to downsized the military on Okinawa. Lots of Americans think they have a friend or two on Okinawa, they're blind and living in an illusion. Most that are married to Okinawans are being used, and she would have married another American just as easily.. just the facts jack! It's a shallow world and it takes most idiots 30+ yrs to admit it to themselves.

    Wow... You know you are putting down Okinawans just as much as you Americans? You basically said the people of Okinawa are not capable of friendship and love.

  • -1

    jansob1

    Okinawans will smile at your face if they have to talk to you but they'll vote for the anti base candidate who promises to continue the fight to downsized the military on Okinawa. Lots of Americans think they have a friend or two on Okinawa, they're blind and living in an illusion.

    There is no conflict with having an American friend and thinking there are too many bases crammed onto Okinawa.

  • 0

    Matthew Simon

    Yuri, See what happens to a military member who is asked a question and turns their back on those asking them. They will be standing tall in front of the man the next day guaranteed. And their would be nothing wrong with that. You seem to be confusing legal jurisdiction with UCMJ lawful orders. No they can't "arrest them on the spot but they can sure as hell charge them with disobeying a lawful order under the UCMJ.

  • 0

    YuriOtani

    Matthew understand military members are under orders and get in trouble for not following them. My point is non SOFA are not under orders from the US military. "Patrols" entering the business is a form of harassment to the customers. Not just to the SOFA customer but others who would be intimidated by their presence. As to the patrols on the streets it is a lot like the old days when the Americans were in charge.

    I suspect if this goes on you may start seeing "no foreigners" signs on Okinawa business. It is not because they dislike them but do not want to be harassed by American authorities.

  • 2

    brknarm2012

    Yuri: The patrols are really nothing new. Even before the curfew, I would see them around the Gate 2 and Kitamae area. I sometimes saw them in Naha too, 25 yrs ago. You say that locals fear the patrols, but that's not true...they could care less. It might interrupt the drinking for a second, that's it. The business owners know the patrols are there to "keep the peace" and usually accommodate. You really need to give your Okinawan brethren more credit...not many consider the military (or the patrols) a burden.

  • -3

    YuriOtani

    brknarm2012 there was a non binding vote done and the overwhelming majority want the US military out. To me and others these "patrols" are a reminder of before reversion when MP's routinely busted open the heads of Okinawa people. This no drinking stuff is all about control not of the military but the Okinawa people. It will not work and perhaps it is a means to discipline military they do not like.

  • 0

    Matthew Simon

    Yuri that is not what you said in your earlier post, but maybe you intention was different.

    > So to the military person if you see a patrol, turn and walk away. Do not look at them or say a thing.

  • -2

    Tom Webb

    Best thing to do is legalise whore houses where the sailors/marines/soldiers can blow-off their steam. Build them right on the bases.

  • -2

    YuriOtani

    Matthew it would be very wise for US military to avoid all contact with patrols. If they see your ID card, you are in big trouble. It is unlikely they would know you on sight. Then again they risk so much for a little drink. If they would ask me about breaking curfew would tell them not to but obey the order. So it comes down to what is more important to you? Your military self or your alcohol self. A little discipline and patience and you will be out of Japan and the curfew. However the medical people on base will help you with an alcohol problem. Going to them for help is much better than an alcohol incident.

  • 0

    Tom DeMicke

    Mark Elrod: Yes...you are right. I remember all that during the Okinawa Summit 2000. I agree, no civilian should be imposed upon with these restrictions...it would clearly be overboard and would pave the way to all kinds of lawsuits. Highly agreed! I am still surprised however that all non-SOFA civilians are subject to the off-limits areas that are posted on Kadena's Facebook page. Those off-limit joints do for sure apply to all SOFA personnel military and civilian but probably also for their own safety and security. But really, a bookstore? What kinda books are they selling in there, me wonders? I'm just glad I'm retired and non-SOFA, now that's freedom. By the way, I'm hearing already that these restrictions may not even last as long as the holidays. Hang in there military personnel and thanks for serving and thanks to the civilians over here serving as well!

  • 1

    Tom DeMicke

    Good advice, YuriOtani!!

  • -1

    Tom DeMicke

    Tom Webb: I vote for you to become the next 4-star General and to be in charge of the military! Great suggestion - LOL!!

  • 0

    The Marion

    Het: The big war ended 67 years ago -- isn't it about time the occupational troops returned to the country they came from? We need thoise Marines here at home.......

  • 1

    Dave Evans

    Easy way to fix this problem. Bring "ALL' of our troops homand lock down our borders. Lets start taking care of America first!

  • -5

    YuriOtani

    real doll you forget the Self Defense Force and really even if there were no American troops on Okinawa how would it change things? Any conflict might bring the Republic of China into the fight. Then add Vietnam, etc.

    Not sure how things are going with the patrols but my friends report nothing unusual. Again more strongly this time to American military. Follow the lawful command of your officers and those above you! We the non SOFA can play with the patrols, then again would probably not bother. You need to think of your future. A run in with one of these patrols could get you the "big chicken dinner"! If you need help go to your Chaplin, medical provider, etc The USAF has the ADAPT program. Found it on the internet so if you want help it is available.

  • 0

    USNinJapan2

    Tom deMicke

    By the way, I'm hearing already that these restrictions may not even last as long as the holidays.

    Then you're hearing wrong. The curfew/restrictions have been revised again as of the 1st. Now no military personnel on Okinawa are permitted to consume alcohol ANYWHERE OFF BASE 24/7 with the exception of their own residence (if they reside off base) and still only during the hours of 0800-2200. This means no drinking off base in any restaurants, bars, or even a friend's house. Consumption of alcohol is still permitted ON BASE 0800-2200 but all establishments will continue to secure their sales of alcohol by 2200. The bases are also now deploying breathalizer kits/machines to the gates to check military personnel leaving the base and will not permit anyone to leave that registers positive for alcohol consumption. Again, these measures are confined only to Okinawa.

  • 1

    D.j. KaRma

    Wow, we're still talking about this? In other news, CFAS is having an open base event next week. Should be GREAT FUN! Funnel cakes, good music, maybe a little nampa.... all before the clock strikes 11.

  • -5

    YuriOtani

    For those who do not know military slang "big chicken dinner" is a bad conduct discharge. So the US military has made ALL of our bars "off limits" for uniformed military. So much for having to follow their orders. Remember Yuriko says to follow your lawful orders. It is in YOUR best interests.

  • 0

    D.j. KaRma

    Not unless you got the system figured out wink

  • 0

    Delarapier

    The best thing for the US is to look at its long-term strategic goals and figure out if they outweigh the cost of staying in Okinawa.

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