U.S. servicepersons in Okinawa to be required to live inside base

Monday 27th July, 12:59 PM JST

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cruxman2001 at 12:21 PM JST - 28th July

yuriotani, we don't actually disagree as much as you think. We agree on all but one point.

I've said that people resent the fact that Tokyo forced these bases and their problems (including size) on them.

I also agree that forcing troops back on base will not be a bad thing for many Okinawans, because the housing prices will fall. I think it should go further....neighborhoods would be cleaned up without all those drunk horny young men running around.

I agree with you about the rents and never questioned it...they charge those prices because the US subsidizes them.

I disagree that most people have no problems with foreigners around...Ryukyu people had no problem trash-talking us and discriminating against us. They are Ryukyu when complaining to Tokyo and Japanese when complaining about Americans. They have every right to complain whether we agree or not, and we should listen to what they want. I think the majority would like the bases to go, and this is a small step in the right direction.
Mookoo at 01:09 PM JST - 28th July

Japan's system of government, with strong federal control, rather that strong state control as in the US, practically guarantees the bases will be an issue for a long time, while the local sentiments will have relatively little weight. A Subic Bay style tossing of the military right out would be a great blessing for Okinawa, even if the withdrawal symptoms were briefly painful.
cruxman2001 at 01:33 PM JST - 28th July

I'd have to agree with Mookoo, but until that happens, reducing their social and economic footprint would make life more normal for Okinawans.

Until the bases leave, keep them locked down.
Blacklabel at 02:09 PM JST - 28th July

Well I look at it this way. Making more single people live on the base doesnt mean that they are going to STAY on the base. Now that means that when they go out at night or on the weekends that they dont have an off base house to go to, they have to go back to the base when they are done.

But who wants to go "home" to a dorm with lots of other dudes instead of their own house? SO this will lead to people staying out later and longer than if they could just go to their own house off base. Plus cant bring girls to your dorm overnight whereas if you had a house you could just bring someone over and relax with them and dont even have to go out in public at all. Also no alcohol allowed in the dorms last I heard.

So now instead of people being able to just go home and relax they are going to be out in public MORE just to get out of the dorm environment and to be able to have some alcohol and get with some girls, so it might have the opposite effect of what one would think.

But luckily none of this is being done to control behavior anyway, it is simply being done to get the maximum utilization of existing housing. The guys will just have to suck it up and deal with it unless they find a girl who has her own place or something.
Klein2 at 02:44 PM JST - 28th July

They are Ryukyu when complaining to Tokyo and Japanese when complaining about Americans.

Nice quote, CRUXMAN. Certainly a useful rule of thumb. If anyone has been to the war museum, you will see this idee fixe in every exhibit. They bust on the Japanese until August 1945, then on the Americans until 1972, and then on both to the present day.

Seems like the thread has lost the "Yankee dollar" hangers on, which is great. I so looked forward to visiting Okinawa and Guam. I looked forward to seeing the bases especially, but quickly found that other places were much nicer. Someone made the comment that driving into a base was like going from the third world into middle America. I agree. My question is: why does the area surrounding every base look like a third world slum? It has more to do with the base than Japan, apparently. Pay day loans, pawn shops, rusting vehicles, guys in wife beaters driving beaters and tossing cigarette butts out of open windows at traffic lights, shops selling shuriken and samurai sword replicas... you know the drill.

If you could put all of that on the base, everyone would be much happier.

Mookoo: The national government has been pouring money into the area for decades. It has not seemed to do too much good, but as you imply, it has never been tried without the bases. Some people complain that all of the good development opportunities are on the other side of the fence. I have seen two big Okinawa tourist booms. One was in the early to mid 70s. Another was about 10 years ago. They seemed to kickstart things, but similarly to Hokkaido, it is just too far out there for Tokyo-centric Japan. Interest waxes and wanes.
Mookoo at 03:31 PM JST - 28th July

Klein2: Pouring money into an area, and actually having a workable economic plan are two totally different things. Just ask Americans where the money from the first bailout went after it was poured into the banks...nobody knows.

Without making sustainable development plans for Okinawa, and Tokyo money that pours in just gets sucked up by mainland companies doing the tourist trade in Okinawa, and sent right back to Tokyo again. That doesn't do many residents on Okinawa much good. Ideas like being a transport hub, IT hub, freetrade zones, and so forth are a good start, but they need more than just the idea and a bunch of cash. They need actual short, medium, and long-range plans that aim to boost business and self-sustainability.
alphawolf at 05:07 PM JST - 28th July

When I was a GI I was authorized 135000 yen per month and I was a single MSgt (E7). I didn't need to spend more than 50000 a month, but I spent the whole damned thing because if I didn't I wouldn't get to impress the girls I picked up with the nice "pad" at the expense of the tax payer. It was great.. now that I am not in the military, I don't mind telling of my waste... but it was under the policy of the military, but I think it should be stopped. I'd never say this if it would effect my bottom line (sex and turning on girls). Now it doesn't matter.. take away the housing allowance.. no skin off my butt. har di har har!

aw
Jbizzle at 06:07 PM JST - 28th July

Some of you guys sound old and out of touch. Cruxman sounds like he has a very bitter taste in his mouth from his time spent in Okinawa. It sounds like he may have had his heart broken by an Okinawan woman, or he has left Okinawa with no true Okinawan friends...which is sad. However, I do agree that this is a great way for for our government to save taxpayers money. But to think it may help with "crimes" being commited by US servicemembers, they are sadly mistaken.
cruxman2001 at 06:45 PM JST - 28th July

Bitter taste, yes, but not from a broken heart...moved there with my wife and 2 year-old from the US, and felt utterly unwelcome...have many good Japanese friends, but few from Okinawa...and they agree with me about the attitudes of most Okinawans.

Now on the mainland for a nother 3 years, and am much happier (there are some places in Japan that don't totally suck for foreigners to live in).

But that's all beside the point...the bases are not welcome and should be isolated if they are to stay. This plan will make things worse if anything, as the ONLY foreigners the locals will see are the young drunk horny ones.
alphawolf at 07:28 PM JST - 28th July

cruxman is right, the bases are not welcome. the only ones who really support the bases are the ones cashing in on the federal dollars. I don't care if the plan helps or hurts attitudes. We killed 30% of the civilian population during our 82 day bombing campaign during the war, then raped the land of what we wanted and still occupy 20% of the island where less than 1% of the populaton is employed as GOJ employees. Why would the Okinawans want us in Okinawa. China very well has a nuke aimed at Okinawa, not because they hate Okinawans but because the US is there.... I see no gain in bases on Okinawa, move them to Guam.. all of them.

aw
alphawolf at 07:32 PM JST - 28th July

Mooko, you are right.. but without the bases the land will be free to develop on Okinawa. There were app 74 bases on Okinawa at reversion, now 38. Them locations are now built up providing local jobs above and beyond the sewing lady and lawn boy of yesteryear. Flat land on a small mountainous island doesn't sit there doing nothing..

aw
DenDon at 12:58 AM JST - 29th July

Perhaps the burden of living under a dictatorship or not living at all would be preferable?

old chestnuts roasting on sarge's open fire. bunch of crap but if it helps you sleep at night keep saying it
Mookoo at 10:53 AM JST - 29th July

There are so many things they could be planning and developing on Okinawa. One Japanese company developed a variety of sugar cane that yields more bio-ethanol at lower cost than any other on their test plots in the prefecture. Other parts of the prefecture have had success with distilling rum from the cane. Still other parts have been zoned for free-trade zones and IT hubs. The Japanese airlines want to make it a transport hub for the Asia region. They need to get real, solid business plans drawn up, and lobby to get the returned base land based on the feasibility of their plans. No more freaking shopping malls and chintzy hotels. The place is awash in rent-a-cars and parking lots and half-empty hotels, and all the half-baked attractions land owners think the great hordes of unwashed want to see.
Klein2 at 04:59 PM JST - 29th July

Well Mookoo. I am not sure whether we are agreeing or disagreeing, but I don't care really. I admire your optimism, but so many people have fallen for it before. Japan has not had much luck with Hokkaido development either, depending on whom you ask, but it HAS been pouring money into Okinawa over the years, and even if a lot of that is boondoggles, the infrastructure has stayed there. Nobody runs with the ball. God knows that "a workable economic plan" is an oxymoron no matter where you visit and seems to have more to do with luck than anything.

There are great places there and I thought of moving there once. Real estate is cheap. The Japan system is in place there. Development loans are nice. BUT.... The work ethic is not so good. IT hubs? I am under the impression that the education level there is the worst in Japan, but I might be wrong. It is certainly a great place for an ambitious person, but let's just say that it does not offer anyone Japan's low hanging fruit. I suppose if the US leaves the air and port facilities, there could be instant opportunities, but such facilities are being abandoned here and there in Japan as it is.

So if you take all of Alphawolf's "flat land" and Mookoo's ban on "shopping malls and chintzy hotels" and rule out factories, you are pretty well left with what... farm land for cane sugar? Figuring in the leaching that occurs during typhoons and the increasing price for urea, I am thinking that biofuel and cane profits would be marginal. Pyrolysis of Akita cedars is likely to give a better energy yield.

For what it is worth, there is a lot of information here about everything but history. Check out the age demographic. I find that interesting. Since back in Namie Amuro days, the youth have been the hope of the Ryukyus. Maybe they CAN do a good job with their grandparents' land back in their own hands, but I kind of doubt it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Okinawa_Prefecture
YuriOtani at 02:13 AM JST - 30th July

Kadena AFB needs to be turned into a civilian Airport. Civilian aircraft make a lot less noise than military aircraft especially the F-15 and F-18 fighters. They can make a straight in approach over the pacific ocean on one side and over undeveloped land on the other. It would make a great cargo hub and some passenger flights could land there for people going to the north part of the island. If need be perhaps the Americans could have the northern "navy" section for transit aircraft and perhaps some refueling aircraft with "hush" kits to hold down the noise. The jobs generated from this will be much better than the Burger King, Clubs and maid work.