IOC asks for investigation of China's gymnasts

Friday 22nd August, 03:00 PM JST

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Nessie at 04:22 AM JST - 24th August

If they have passports, they most likely have competed overseas. If so, can't the immigration departments in the countries where they competed verify the ages? If there were passport switcheroos, this might suss them out.
Nessie at 04:22 AM JST - 24th August

The most pathetic thing is that China didn't need to cheat, and it would have got more respect for playing fair than for winning.
seansezso at 12:34 PM JST - 24th August

The most pathetic thing is that China didn't need to cheat, and it would have got more respect for playing fair than for winning.

Are you kidding? China put forth their best and in at least one competition it took a wonky tie breaker for them to beat out Nastiya. They most certainly did have to have the team they put together to get those medals.

The IOC needs to realize this age restriction is unfair to the gymnasts. It throws their best years down the toilet.
seansezso at 12:43 PM JST - 24th August

LFRAgain wrote:

There are reasons age rules are in place, the most obvious being of course the harm that can come to a child’s physical development when pressed to perform in competitions of this caliber.

Wrong. Its not the competitions. Its the training. The rule will not change the ages that training begins in this sport. Therefore, it is pointless.

Should it be acceptable for a 20-year old athlete with greater physical strength and experience to play in under-12 youth-league football simply because he has a chance to bring his team to victory?

You are glossing over the fact that the under 12 league was not meant to be the pinnacle of achievement.
Xennon at 12:48 PM JST - 24th August

I'm glad to see the conversation has come back on topic instead of a USA bashfest.

Those here who still continue to say since the passport said He is 16 then it must be true need to open their eyes...

In 2000 Yang Yun presented the IOC with my passport saying she was 16 and she got to compete. Later, after the Olympics, she even admitted in an interview that she was in fact 14 at the time. Ya.... China's passport age verification test is reliable....

And with the IOC closing the case about 12 hours after it was open??? Wonderfully thorough "investigation" guys.

Before half of you jump on me saying that I am merely jealous of China's overall gold medal dominance over USA, please think again.

Regardless of what happens, China will still be on top and I congratulate them. Also, as mentioned before, China would no doubt have had an amazing team with all 16 years plus athletes. But the point here people, is the possibility that China cheated.
Nessie at 01:08 PM JST - 24th August

China put forth their best and in at least one competition it took a wonky tie breaker for them to beat out Nastiya. They most certainly did have to have the team they put together to get those medals.

I'm talking about the overall medal count, Sean.
chardk1 at 01:49 PM JST - 24th August

The people who say that the age limit of 16 is unfair anyway are totally missing the point. That is the thing about rules. Some are good, some are bad, but the fairest thing is for everyone to abide by them as long as the rule stands. How is fair to those who played by the rules, or to the international sports community, that underaged Chinese girls get to compete because as their country creates forged passports for them in violation of international law?
seansezso at 02:31 PM JST - 24th August

The people who say that the age limit of 16 is unfair anyway are totally missing the point.

Not at all. If they are not 16 then their scores should be made unofficial. I know most would take the medals away, but I would let the girls keep the medals, congratulate them on their perfomances and simply remove their wins from the record and pass out new medals to the new winners. I see no reason to punish the girls for what the adults have done.

But calling a silly rule silly is hardly missing the point. There can be no greater point when such a silly rule gets violated. That is because until the rule is changed its just going to keep happening forever. We have our eye on the future, no just today.
seansezso at 02:34 PM JST - 24th August

I'm talking about the overall medal count, Sean.

That too would be less. Given other gymnasts, there is no guarantee they would have even scored a bronze in all those gymnastics competitions, and there were several.
seansezso at 02:37 PM JST - 24th August

Assuming these girls are underage, take a minute and consider where their skills will be in four years. They are only going down hill from hear. Its silly to keep them out when they are at their peak. In fact, its dangerous to them.
Nessie at 03:16 PM JST - 24th August

That too would be less. Given other gymnasts, there is no guarantee they would have even scored a bronze in all those gymnastics competitions, and there were several.

China is 15 gold medals in front. It would not have made much difference to the total medal count.
seansezso at 04:12 PM JST - 24th August

China is 15 gold medals in front. It would not have made much difference to the total medal count.

We know that now. Nobody knew that going in.

I count 3 gold won by Chinese women for gymnastics, and seven medals total so far, but I am not sure if all of them are in controversy.

In retrospect, you are correct that China may have damaged its image for a paltry haul of gold, but I say again, nobody knew that going in. It could have happend that China led by only one medal as easy as 15. And having got only 3 gold out its woman gymnasts all only backs up my point that that was the best team they could put together.

On a side note, Chinese men owned gymnastics. 8 gold for 9 men's events! A Polish man managed to get the single remaining gold.
LFRAgain at 09:23 AM JST - 25th August

seansezso,

Your arguments regarding the fairness or silliness of the rules are moot for one simple reason: If everyone is held to the same rules, then there is nothing unfair about it. And while it may seem a silly rule to you, if everyone is being equally silly, then there should be no problem and claims of cheating can fall to the wayside as simple sour grapes.

Interestingly, you don't seem to be arguing so much that China didn't cheat as China had an acceptable excuse for cheating, which makes me question whether you actually understand the intrinsic value of rules in sports competitions, or in anything governed by rules, for that matter, like, say, driving. For example, I think the posted speed limits on roads in Japan are ridiculously low, bordering on silly in some cases. Am I then free to drive at higher speeds because I deem the speed limit silly?

Each nation that fields a gymnastics team at the Olympics is fully aware of and agrees to abide by the rules governing competition. If they can’t follow those rules, then they shouldn’t be competing. And they certainly shouldn’t be receiving medals that are the fruit of ignoring those rules.

Do 14-year old gymnasts have a physical advantage over their 16-year old rivals? Yes, they do. You admit as much in your exhortations regarding how it’s only downhill from 14 for all gymnasts. Does a team comprised of under-16 athletes receiving gold medals for their efforts constitute unfairness? It most certainly does. You bandy about words like fairness, yet you can’t seem to grasp the fundamental unfairness of China allegedly utilizing an age advantage to best opponents who, by abiding by the rules of Olympic competition, failed to take the same road.

As to your assertion that gymnasts only go downhill from age 14, while that holds true in principle for athletes in any sport, please consider that the Silver Medal for the women’s vault at Beijing was won by German competitor Oksana Chusovitina, at the ripe old age of 33.　　
seansezso at 04:39 PM JST - 25th August

LFRAgain,

I have several posts here. If you had looked at them, you could have saved yourself a lot of typing. I said I would disqualify China if they were found to be cheating, despite how much I think the rules suck.

If everyone is held to the same rules, then there is nothing unfair about it.

I wonder if you realized the inherent flaw of that position just after striking the enter key? Of course rules can be unfair even if all are held to them equally! That is one reason why rules change over time despite the fact that they were applied equally to all! I find this rule unfair to every Olympic minded gymnast on the planet. Therefore, my underwear does not bunch when the rule gets broken.

For example, I think the posted speed limits on roads in Japan are ridiculously low, bordering on silly in some cases. Am I then free to drive at higher speeds because I deem the speed limit silly?

Yes, you are free in a sense. You do so at your own risk however, but I will salute your civil disobedience so long as you were not going too fast. This rule infraction is equally minor, as the rule itself is just as silly. And change often comes from below in just this manner. The IOC and the judges are notoriously blind.

please consider that the Silver Medal for the women’s vault at Beijing was won by German competitor Oksana Chusovitina, at the ripe old age of 33.　

I said young age was an advantage, not the holy grail. Oksana is hardly the norm. Consider that one of the Chinese athletes can no longer perform a move she perfected and is even named after her. She has been unable to do it since puberty.
Sarge at 04:43 PM JST - 25th August

Oh, for cryin' out loud... He Kexin not only turned 16 January 1, she's a great gymnast!