Japan's coaches shocked by judo medal failures

Olympics Aug. 01, 2012 - 05:00PM JST ( 54 )

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54 Comments

6

gogogoAug. 01, 2012 - 01:03PM JST

You can't win them all, it's about giving it your best effort!
8

Ben JackAug. 01, 2012 - 01:08PM JST

Just going to the Olympics is a great honor. Let the athletes enjoy themselves and let us enjoy the events without all this negativity. The Olympics should be a positive thing, win or lose.
4

lostrune2Aug. 01, 2012 - 01:08PM JST

Judo is no longer just Japan's sport anymore. Other countries have taken it as their own and become competitive.
16

cleoAug. 01, 2012 - 01:17PM JST

Judo has become a truly international sport. There is no reason now for Japan to have any kind of natural dominance. Disappointing for the Japanese athletes perhaps, but surely in the bigger picture a triumph for judo as a sport.
0

CrickyAug. 01, 2012 - 01:17PM JST

Not happy about the results?

Stay at home It's an international competition, train the competitors to a competitive standard Or remain in a local competition.
8

YubaruAug. 01, 2012 - 01:38PM JST

I find it hard to believe that the coaches being "coy" about their expectations. They may not be talking to the press but how much does anyone want to bet that they ARE talking to the athletes?

Time for Japanese Judo to wake up and smell the coffee, the world has caught up with them, and now if they want back on top they are going to have to train SMARTER not harder.
0

TSRnowAug. 01, 2012 - 01:43PM JST

Maybe not saying anything puts more pressure onto the athletes. How about saying it out loud and get the spirits up? "Let's get GOLD! Gambaro! O!"

Just a suggestion...
0

GWAug. 01, 2012 - 01:48PM JST

Cant be very much enjoyment being a j-athlete at the olympics, especially in one on one type sports, what a shame
-6

888naffAug. 01, 2012 - 01:53PM JST

They will probably have to give up the traditional Judo and throw away respect, etc and just treat it at sport, scruffy dress doesn't matter and the original Japanese judo ethics don't matter to other countries, it's a sport to them.
0

JDB829Aug. 01, 2012 - 01:54PM JST

@Ben Jack Fabulous post! I have been quite taken aback by some of the sniviling comments made on these Olympic topics. The cynicism and begrudging remarks have no place in the world of sport!
0

bass4funkAug. 01, 2012 - 02:14PM JST

Everyone wants their country to do best as well as every athlete wants to give it their best. You will always have that in competitive sports. You can't win every time, but losing, doesn't necessarily mean you "lost" As long as they trained hard, put their best effort in, there is no shame, just getting a shot to be in the Olympics is a big achievement in itself. There will be other Olympics and that should give them even more motivation and determination to be the best. This is the one time that the world can come together for 2 weeks as collective group without fighting or politics or religion clouding the issue. I personally, wish ALL athletes nothing but the best now and for any future sport or Olympic competitions.
3

SushiSake3Aug. 01, 2012 - 02:19PM JST

Ben Jack - "Just going to the Olympics is a great honor. Let the athletes enjoy themselves and let us enjoy the events without all this negativity. The Olympics should be a positive thing, win or lose."

I agree a million percent. :-)
2

UsagitoSaruAug. 01, 2012 - 02:28PM JST

On top of this being not just a Japanese sport anymore it all comes down to the physical strength and using your mind as well to defeat your opponent and many of the non Japanese have more physical strength in them. The Japanese athletes did try hard but they weren't using their heads enough. So many opportunities and I felt the majority of the athletes especially the males were trying to hard to get Ippon. These boys and girls did great though! they made it to the olympics and even won medals for the most part silver and bronze are still medals. What a rare and honorable opportunity for each of those that won a medal. These coaches just spit on that honor by complaining. When you see the other players going onto the mat and off at the end their coaches are encouraging them and congratulating them. They have a good bond with their coaches but the Japanese coaches seem only interested in the winning and have no bond at all with the athletes. it's sad.
-7

zabutonsenbeiAug. 01, 2012 - 02:45PM JST

IMHO International Judo rules have ruined the sport. Also, that new video jury system makes the need for ringside judges moot.
0

WakarimasenAug. 01, 2012 - 03:03PM JST

Judo going same way as sumo - made in Japan but foreigners gradually taking over. Like football in England.
-1

smithinjapanAug. 01, 2012 - 03:27PM JST

It's not liek they've done terribly, and it's not finished yet. I think as long as the athletes themselves feel they tried their best then the colour of the medal, or even if they didn't getting one, matters less. The problem is that the JOC went into this saying matter of factly they would end up with a certain amount of golds, and the bitterness and apparent anger of the coaches is inexcusable. It's a world sport now, and rightfully medals are being spread across the globe. Why is it 'fun' when only one team dominates?

zabutonsenbei: "IMHO International Judo rules have ruined the sport."

Only for one nation, it would seem, though this isn't the first time, and won't be the last, this argument has been thrown out there when talking about Japan's performance. They've got to attempt to the new, and they can. I agree with you on the video jury system, but shouldn't ringside judges be eliminated altogether? It's obvious they've made a LOT more mistakes in this.
-1

alliswellinjapanAug. 01, 2012 - 03:37PM JST

In addition to the fact that judo has truly become an international sport wherein Japan is no longer able to secure clear dominance, it appears that there is just too much pressure placed on each individual judoka representing the country at the Olyimpics. I would reckon every one of them should be able to compete much better in international tournaments of less importance. Just by looking at their faces before each match being watched over by the presence of past major judo figures in the spectator seats in ever so intimidating fashion it is not too difficult to imagine the heavy load of responsibility they carry in protecting the "prestige" of Japanese judo. If Japan really wants to win, people should begin to realize (even I can realize) that more focus and attention should be placed on relieving each individual from the unnecessary pressure of having to protect something that is way too huge for them to handle, enabling them to confidently focus on each match. With the other countries stronger than ever, Japan no longer has room to handle such unnecessary pressure and still win.
-2

JapanGalAug. 01, 2012 - 03:49PM JST

Sports are wars. Live with the results.
-3

PT24881Aug. 01, 2012 - 03:56PM JST

The spirit of rebuilding Japan ( via enormous individual sacrifices for the nation's advancement as no.1 in everything ) has been largely diluted with young people flocking to leisure & pop culture. Can't really blame them given no drive to achieve higher score for a generation of 20 somethings who have not experienced hardship unlike their ancestors.
-2

sakuralaAug. 01, 2012 - 04:03PM JST

They are all winners for making it that far and have received much better medals already from the children of the disaster hit area. Let them all enjoy the events and show true sportsmanship with positive comments.
0

TetranMASTERAug. 01, 2012 - 04:15PM JST

I remember when the UK was good at football.
3

kurumazakaAug. 01, 2012 - 04:22PM JST

My understanding is that in Japan the goal is to win by ippon not points. That is what they consider classic true judo. In international sport judo, it is rather win by whatever means necessary. For this same reason, the Japan Kendo Federation is fighting tooth and nail to keep kendo from becoming an Olympic sport. They are afraid kendo will go the way of judo. As an American, I miss the days when we could clean house with no effort in basketball and baseball, or even the sprints, but those days are long gone. The world has caught up. I'm sure the British can commiserate with football, rugby, cricket and tennis.
0

sf2kAug. 01, 2012 - 04:32PM JST

Maybe they're not getting world experience. Often other countries have coaches not of their own country but based on merit in their sport. While former winning players from the same country also make good coaches, having an additional larger depth in coaching helps. Perspective is everything. If this keeps up by next Olympics, Japan may not even medal. The world adapts from the successes of Japan in the past, so don't expect it to stand still.

Same with Canadian hockey, we can't assume world dominance and have lost many times. It's a matter of losing the ego and seeing what can be done. It's hit or miss though.

In any event I wish people would see this as a triumph of the world encouraged by the sport and the worldwide influence that it is making. There's joy in that too
1

sf2kAug. 01, 2012 - 04:44PM JST

@Wakariamsen

Sumo from the perspective of the sport is entirely merit based so the only means of it being more Japanese is if more Japanese play it. With low pay and hard work I think that unlikely. It's mixed rikishi however again should be seen as a success of the sport reaching out (in spite of recent troubles). Japanese judoka may also take pride in the worldwide results of the medals rather than owning them all themselves, and just have to really learn from the best in the world and not just Japan. I think that stretches real desire to learn to be the best, open more horizons, and that's what sport is all about.

It's a eye opener to be sure but it's the armchair critic that laments and not the sportsperson. The athlete who strives for greater success and achieves credit it is then well earned, and not just given.

Sport is not about race or country anymore, but striving for excellence in the world. That's the bigger challenge left open to anyone
2

LowlyAug. 01, 2012 - 05:17PM JST

The preoccupation with Japan being "special" "pure" and "deserving" is being shown up this olympics for what it is: self-centered narcissistic, arrogant thinking. Honestly, the coaches demeanor and behavior show that with the frowns, ignoring the opponents, etc.

Back home in Japan they are always talking about "beating gaijin athletes" like the whole world is one thing and Japan is something else, different and special. Ntnl pride is one thing, but this is borderline racist.

This kind of thinking will clearly not lead them to victory and golds, much less the love and respect they seem to want so badly.

Does my post seem a little harsh? It's time for Japan to join the world as a regular, non-special member, methinks.
-1

alliswellinjapanAug. 01, 2012 - 06:37PM JST

Lowly: I do think you are being harsh, if not largely inaccurate. The Japan of today overall is far from narcissistic, rather in significant lack of self-confidence. The Olympic is more or less expected to serve as a pick me up opportunity if anything else, but people are still maintaining realistic expectations nonetheless. When it comes to judo however, it does continue to be a source of national pride and perhaps different from other competitions in that regard.
2

herefornowAug. 01, 2012 - 08:48PM JST

Does my post seem a little harsh? It's time for Japan to join the world as a regular, non-special member, methinks

Lowly -- possibly a little, but after watching ten years of Olympics and other sports broadcast and covered in Japan, I believe there is quite a bit of truth in what you say.
-1

sourpussAug. 01, 2012 - 09:01PM JST

herefornow, what country isn't disappointed with losing? So Japan has high expectations for athletes, you think that they shouldn't?

if your country performed poorly at their national sport, do you think everybody would be all smiles? i can tell you that there was much wailing and gnashing of teeth in Canada after the Nagano and Torino Olympic debacles. lots of over-the-top soul-searching and what have you. the same in the US when they lost in basketball.
2

danalawton1@yahoo.comAug. 01, 2012 - 09:23PM JST

Judo is no longer a "uniquely Japanese" sport. There are no special secrets or moves only the Japanese can master... it is about focus and training, just like any other sport. The Japanese should be happy that one of their countrymen invented a sport that the rest of the world has embraced.
-1

Oz_MonsterAug. 01, 2012 - 09:28PM JST

As a Judoka back in the day I always watch the Olympics with interest.
The very patriotic Judo team reminds me of the Australian Swim Team as every Olympics they are expected without fail to bring home a swag of medals and the Swim Team is THE team in Australian Olympic sport. Lowly, that's the way every country focuses on the Olympics, is it......us vs them, and Japan in that regard is no different.
Japan in fact has been thinking like that (us vs them) for centuries and it will not change overnight. Judo is a Japanese sport which has spread across the world, as the birth place of Judo as alliswellinjapan points out there is a lot of national pride and bragging rights at stake.
There is a really big spread of countries who have won medals at London which is great. Frankly Japan needs to go back to the "Win by Ippon" policy which was a huge success for players like Ayumi Tanimoto. (Gold in Athens and Beijing) I just do not see the same aggression and determination to win from other Japanese Judoka as demonstrated by Matsumoto.
-1

alliswellinjapanAug. 01, 2012 - 09:46PM JST

herefornow: When one looks at how television and other media here tend to overdo the "Ganbare Nippon" campaign at every Olympics trying to instigate excessive excitement and attention to the games, yes this may be in a way something unique to Japan (still, not completely unique to Japan). But then again the media here also overdoes the quest for the finest foods and restaurants or celebrity gossips or everything else unrelated to sports and patriotism using every means to attract viewer attention, but the viewers are usually able to see through all the propaganda and are keeping their cool. I believe it is utterly erroneous to assess this media behavior to be all coming from Japan's self-centered narcissism or arrogance as suggested earlier. By all means the fundamental nature of the excitement over every gold medal victory (or the disppointment from lack thereof) is no different from any other country methinks.
1

DisillusionedAug. 01, 2012 - 10:46PM JST

What! No gold meals??? I see a few hazings going down in the judo stables! It's a sport! For gawd's sake!
1

avengerAug. 01, 2012 - 10:47PM JST

They will do what they did last time they got smashed. Lobby the judo federation to get rid of all the techniques that are not good for japanese Judi and claim its good for the spirit of Judo. Looks like they got outpowered so probably will want to get rid of power grips. Note the Koreans had no problem with power or rough judo.
0

TigersTokyoDomeAug. 01, 2012 - 11:46PM JST

Too much pressure on the judoka from the Japanese federation and senior coaches as usual. It's about time the federation and senior coaches took the rap and be replaced with something modern and positive (yep, I know. No chance of that happening)

What they don't realise is that this is the first new generation after the recent golden years of Japanese judo. Tani, Nomura, Inoue, Suzuki, Tanimoto, Ueno etc. This is a new generation of non-golden stars and it is ridiculous to heap so much pressure on them for gold medals.
-1

LowlyAug. 02, 2012 - 12:22AM JST

alliswellinjapan-

"not narcissistic but significant lack of self-confidence"

Those are one and the same thing, actually. Thinking you are better than anyone and thinking you are especially a failure are very self-centered patterns and show a lack of awareness and consideration of others. The whole thing about Japan is "we are so weak, Gaijin are so strong" then ties right into "we are special because we are Japanese and no-one else can understand us".

ozmonster and others,

Sure, there is pride in national sports and pride in any trained athlete going to a competition, I understand that. We have it in the USA where I am from too of course, everyone has it. But pride and determination going into a match is one thing, patriotism edging into racism and self-centered narcissistic nonsense is another. We have patriots and racists aplenty where I'm from, but everyone knows that going into the olympics, you don't just talk about "the foreign athletes" and "what will we do about the foreign athletes". It just stays at a level of x country may give us trouble, y country might easy to win. I'm just tired of everyone lumped together and the jpns getting their special suit on and not joining the human race.
0

LowlyAug. 02, 2012 - 12:23AM JST

Of course I know it is not everyone, every coach, and every athlete. But sometimes it seems like it is.
-4

peanut666Aug. 02, 2012 - 03:23AM JST

At least the Japanese compete internationally on a level playing field, unlike the Chinese which tries to cheat all the time.
-5

TigersTokyoDomeAug. 02, 2012 - 06:37AM JST

Those are one and the same thing, actually. Thinking you are better than anyone and thinking you are especially a failure are very self-centered patterns and show a lack of awareness and consideration of others. The whole thing about Japan is "we are so weak, Gaijin are so strong" then ties right into "we are special because we are Japanese and no-one else can understand us".

Sure, there is pride in national sports and pride in any trained athlete going to a competition, I understand that. We have it in the USA where I am from too of course, everyone has it. But pride and determination going into a match is one thing, patriotism edging into racism and self-centered narcissistic nonsense is another. We have patriots and racists aplenty where I'm from, but everyone knows that going into the olympics, you don't just talk about "the foreign athletes" and "what will we do about the foreign athletes". It just stays at a level of x country may give us trouble, y country might easy to win. I'm just tired of everyone lumped together and the jpns getting their special suit on and not joining the human race.

Well, seeing as JT is so keen to allow this post to remain on this story, I take it that it is only fair and transparent to be able to reply, within topic.

The accusaton here from Lowly is that the Japanese judo squad/ coaches/ supporters/ Japanese in general, are narcissistic and self-centred. The accusation then directs itself into what can only be described as a singular attack, describing the Japanese in a sweeping generalisation as "edging into racism with the Japanese getting their special suit on and not joining the human race".

My goodness. Surely the very same stereotyping and finger pointing could also be made at the mother country of the poster making these nasty generalisations and accusations of "racism" (Lowlys words). In the very same London Olympics tournament, in the very same week that this american poster is permitted to accuse Japanese in general after their supposed failures in this Olympics judo of being narcissistic, self-centred and edging on racist, didn't the americans accuse the Chinese world record breaking swimmer of doping and no good, just because the Chinese won the gold medal and the american didn't?

I guess that "special suit" that this poster is accusing Japanese in general of putting on is an american hand-me-down.....
0

MasterBapeAug. 02, 2012 - 07:14AM JST

Other nations have become more adept in an international sport created by the Japanese.

Will the Japanese coaches adapt their judo to counter that of the increasing dominance of non-Japanese judo? I seriously doubt it.

The coaches only have themselves to blame.
0

SerranoAug. 02, 2012 - 07:17AM JST

Amazing how at this point the Japanese have one more judo medal than they had in the last Olympics, yet this attitude.
0

Clément DelestradeAug. 02, 2012 - 07:53AM JST

Most of the judokas engaged were n°1 or 2 in the world so the disappointment is quite understandable, if you don't reflect about it you're bound to repeat the same mistakes. It's not about physical strength or any other BS excuse. They just failed to support the pressure. Gotta fix that. Good luck to them.
-1

alliswellinjapanAug. 02, 2012 - 08:10AM JST

Lowly: Those are one and the same thing, actually. Thinking you are better than anyone and thinking you are especially a failure are very self-centered patterns and show a lack of awareness and consideration of others. The whole thing about Japan is "we are so weak, Gaijin are so strong" then ties right into "we are special because we are Japanese and no-one else can understand us".

Still failing to understand what is specifically driving your clearly extreme assessment. You are criticizing Japan for their tendency to either be driven towards thinking they are the best in the world or the worst in the world due to their self-centric narcissistic arrogant mindset. As with any individual person, any individual country would want to think they are something special. Decades of economic stagnation and the rise of other new economic powers can obviously be a downer. Not winning as many medals as before in the Olympics would not help maintain your confidence either. But is this phenomenon really something unique to Japan? Havent other countries undergone similar symptoms before? Is it so unnatural for Japan to want to win at least a few gold medals, especially in judo where they would want to continue to see some dominance, as a pick me up to help maintain their confidence? Your assessment may have made some sense when Japan's economy was considered a potentially dominant superpower which I'm sure has helped instill some self-centric arrogance in those days, but do you honestly believe there is still a strong sign of similar ways of thinking after decades of facing the reality of being just one of the developed countries which is simply winning some, losing some as any other ordinary country would be? Most certainly the general loss of confidence and the general interest towards the Olympics seen in Japan has little to do with self-centric narcissism, and is far from anything unique to Japan.
0

sourpussAug. 02, 2012 - 06:50PM JST

allswellinjapan, as you know, there are individuals who will put a negative spin on just about anything to do with Japan. the worst offenders make general statements about a nation of 126 million individuals, making references to "the Japanese." whining about the Japanese reaction to sporting events such as this olympic judo is an indication they have some kind of ax to grind. better leave it at one post and be done with it.
0

sourpussAug. 02, 2012 - 06:51PM JST

sorry, forgot the quotes on "the Japanese," the second time there.
-2

LowlyAug. 02, 2012 - 07:08PM JST

tigerstokyo and alliswell

Don't know if anyone is still even reading this as it is cycling out of the top page of jt, but you both gravely misunderstand me. Which is understandable, as it is an anonymous forum, and I only have a few lines to write and it is a complicated topic, but since I started it and got that reaction I guess I should write back.

I suppose using the words "the Japanese" it is easy to misunderstand. I like Japan, have lived here for half my life and speak and read and write almost as good as my mother tongue. In other words it is a part of me. And as I said, later, I did nt mean all jpns, most specifically I meant the Judo team, the coaches, the Judo world in general to some extent, the "Public Japan" attitude to Judo, and then, a certain part of the "Public Japan" pathos that affects all/ most Japanese to varying degrees, but unfortunately affects public debate to a huge degree, ab out Japan and their place in the world. . That said, I have no idea about the doping case that tigers is talking about, however I know full well there are racists and cheaters and criminals of all sorts in my home country, as there are in all countries. I thought I hgad said that somewhere in my post, and certainly in my addendum post I said "of course I doN't mean ALL jpns". One big difference between my country (and a lot of countries) and Japan, though, is that certain kinds of abusive, racist, rude, whatever you want to call it, behaviors are known to be wrong or "in poor form", or rude and abusive. And that for one thing you don't do/say them in public, even if you think them. And if you do think them, it is common knowledge that you should be self-critical and try to "better" yourself and understand the other side at least if not get along with them. (And since you guys are so sharp, let me say, "common knowledge" doesn't mean "everyone" either, nor all the time. Just that it is an idea that has some currency in the common mind). This really does not exist in Japan, I think, based on 2 decades of experience and reading and talking to ppl. Never mind watching the olympics. Which is funny, because reflection, and trying to understand or do things for the other person, are things which have a big place in the culture here. But when it comes to foreigners, ppl who don' t just have a different opinion than you w/in the context of jpns society, but just do a lot of things differently, or to Japan in the world, the international stage, there is not trying to understand, and no consciousness of the necessity of working on relationships where there are fundamental differences. (ok, I said "no", ok, not "none", it depends on the person/ situation etc.)

which leads to what alliswell is saying

alliswell seems to think I want it bothe ways with the self-love, self-hate thing, but this is really basic psychology. Self-centeredness is self-centeredness, whether you think you're special and better than everyone and no-one can even understand your wonderfulness and you're sh!t don't stink, or whether you're depressed, think no-one could ever understand your problems and you'll never get a good deal. If you don't feel like reading psychology or practicing buddhism to find this out, ask any adult (=over 30 or 40, or maybe 40 or 50) who has tried very hard to do something and really worked at it over a long period of time and experienced the normal failures and setbacks along with successes, and I believe they will all tell you the same thing. Self-pity and narcissism are the same.

This has nothing to do with the economy in the 90s by the way, I would say the sakkoku jidai (closed borders for 100s of yrs) along with losing WWii. But whatever the cause there is a real blind spot in Japan in relation to the world and other cultures, and also to how to talk about it and change it. Once in awhile things like what I said above about the Judo team have got to be said, however harsh, or it will never change, and it will always be "the Japanese" and "the gaijin". Which is just silly. Not like what I said here will be seen by anyone on the Judo team...

Hope that clears things up for you.
-2

TigersTokyoDomeAug. 02, 2012 - 10:27PM JST

I think some posters are confusing their perspective on the Japanese outlook on the world since 1945, and the Japanese 2012 Olympic judo team. They are not the same.

Judo descends from Japan. It is a sport that is also a part of Japanese culture. One of the Budo self-defence arts that go back to the days of feudal lords. The Japanese believe that winning a bout by an ippon throw is the pure way to win, and that judoka should set out to try to win by an ippon throw. Most successful international non-Japanese nations have developed judo with more emphasis on defensive moves, tactical defense, and lower risk throws. And this is where the Japanese disagree with international judo and why they have fallen out with the international federation.

Do not confuse this with Japanese xenophobia and uber-patriotism (which we all know exists). This is purely Japanese judo being very proud of it's Olympic sport and believing that thousands of years of teaching a Budo sport in the purest form should result in Olympic success.

It's very much like what happened with Brazil in world cup football. Brazilian pure football was defeated by the defensive tactics of the Germans and the Italians. I do find it somewhat hypocritical that the Brazilians gained sympathy, yet Japanese judo does not.
-2

alliswellinjapanAug. 03, 2012 - 10:29AM JST

Lowly: Still following this post. Think the biggest divide here is that you find Japan (or whatever more specific you refer to as Japan) uniquely narcissistic and I don't. The self-love self-hate edges of the sword (whether based on professional psychological analysis or not) pretty much comes with every human being, every human being is different in every country in terms of how both edges of the sword actually plays out in each of their social lives, making Japan consisting of these all very different human beings as one country no different from any other country. The possible common ground to be seen between you and I are that, having said that, I do admit there are some characteristics unique to Japan (some may say weird, some may say cool, either way) and that there is a clear language and cultural barrier which have long stood as major hurdles for a better mutual understanding, but are nonetheless in the process of eventually being cleared. Again however these aspects are nothing unique to Japan in that every country has its own uniqueness, and some narcissism that comes along with it as with any individual human being.
0

LowlyAug. 03, 2012 - 04:00PM JST

Tigers-

You sort of sidestepped responding to me directly, so I don't know if I should respond or not, but I don't know that you understand Judo. It does not have a proud history going back 100s of yrs. Judo and other martial arts sports were developed after meiji and wwII for use in schools to give kids healthy sports and to socialize them to be good citizens. It/ they look nothing like the original martial arts, to me. Playing a game according to rules means the fundamental movement changes, as winning according to the rules becomes what is desired, not winning a fight or taking a throw w/o injury. Watching a match, I, too, find an ippon throw to be more exciting, however, ippon in itself is an arbitrary measure of victory and in fact a little meaningless unless the person being thrown has no training. Anyone with training can role and tumble out of a throw and right back up to fight, even use the throw to come in on a weak angle of the thrower, or, they can tumble and hang on to the thrower causing them to go down with them and easily be put into a lock or choke. Avoiding ippon at all costs results in clenched rearward posture, pushing and shoving, and messy half throws where the throwee clings to the thrower or the floor to avoid a complete throw at all costs. This style btw is what makes Judo such an injury-prone sport. To take just one rule as an example. Look at BJJ, which has less rules and is much closer to the original martial arts, and you will see swift, fluid flexible moves, very pretty, and if/when thrown, more likely to tumble thru the flow as I said above. Whether by intntnl rules or Japanese (of which there are a few versions actually), Judo is a modern sport.

So I can't really go along with this proud cultural heritage thing and wanting pure judo in the olympics. It is a sport of bastardized martial arts born out of modern times, nothing more. That said, sure, they have pride, any serious athlete is going to have pride in what they do and trained hard for. Nothing wrong with that. However, IMO, the Jteams, and Public Japan (the media + everyone's tatemae) can't seem to face losing, or accept that foreigners of different countries aren' t all the same, or that the Jpns are in fact one of a kind of foreigners, i.e. part of the human race in a normal way. I detailed all that above, but I find the jpns attitude toward foreigners in Judo esp, but in a lot of things in general, to be arrogant, self-centered etc as I wrote above.

Thois is ironic, as what does have a history of 100s of yrs here, is a code of manners which also exists in Judo, but is not limited to martial arts. I believe maybe this was a part of what you were talking about in terms of Budo, but it is in all traditional arts and crafts of jpn and buddhism, as well as (but in a softer way) everyday life of average ppl. Respect for your teacher, acknowledgement of the other (practice partner/ opponent), greetings, respect for the space etc. However, what the j athletes (and esp coaches) do is not always up to those standards and often comes across as very rude. This is what I was talking about in previous posts, so I won't repeat here. But to behave that way while espousing the code of manners, and then talk about "gaijin athletes" shows them to be small-minded, often racist, and completely lacking in their own manners never mind anyone else's. ac
1

It"S MEAug. 03, 2012 - 04:15PM JST

Judo was invented by Kano-san and he also introduced the belt-system and the keiko-gi. Not a history of centuries, just bit more than a 100yrs

Basically he took the ground-fighting/wrestling movements out of Ju-JItsu the MA it is based from. In short he focused his style on ground-fighting and ignored the rest.

If judo dated back to hundreds of years it would be a Kyuro(sic) art which has no belts or dress-code.
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It"S MEAug. 03, 2012 - 04:22PM JST

That is from a MA that has studied various arts for 30+yrs.

Granted Kano turned the MA into a sport/leisure activity same way Yang turned Tai Chi into same and Bruce Lee, long list.
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LowlyAug. 04, 2012 - 12:12AM JST

alliswell,

Basically, yes I know those traits exist in all countries, had thot I said so in previous posts. My point was there is little room for criticism, even self-criticism, i n Jpn, meaning it can be a problem that gets way out of control, is very hard for the jpns to get beyond, and can be a real problem for non-jpns and also, ultimately, hold back the jpns themselves. I see this especially in Judo, the coaches and athletes in this olympics, and in previous matches I have seen, have often had this narcissistic attitude.

The title of this article is Jpn coaches shocked by Judo medal failures. That says it all.
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LowlyAug. 04, 2012 - 12:12AM JST

alliswell,

I did reply to you but it seems to have been erased, although there was no jt message to my email.

Basically, yes I know those traits exist in all countries, had thot I said so in previous posts. My point was there is little room for criticism, even self-criticism, i n Jpn, meaning it can be a problem that gets way out of control, is very hard for the jpns to get beyond, and can be a real problem for non-jpns and also, ultimately, hold back the jpns themselves. I see this especially in Judo, the coaches and athletes in this olympics, and in previous matches I have seen, have often had this narcissistic attitude.

The title of this article is Jpn coaches shocked by Judo medal failures. That says it all.
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alliswellinjapanAug. 04, 2012 - 06:35AM JST

Lowly: Let's put everything in simple terms. What does the title of this article imply? It implies that Japan's pride was crushed. Not because Japan is uniquely narcissistic. Only because Japan wanted to continue to boast itself as the reigning king of judo. US would be similarly shocked had they failed to win any gold medals in swimming. South Korea the same for archery. This all has to do with pride, not narcissism. Pride vs loss of self-confidence at work here, not self-love vs self-hate. Nothing out of the ordinary for any individual human being to deal with. Nothing out of the ordinary for any country to deal with. Japan is obviously shocked, but not to the extent that things get way out of control as you claim. What I believe is getting way out of control is rather such false accusations over Japan being uniquely narcissistic. With all due respect, one may want to accuse such accusation itself to be driven by a unique fanaticism, which is an unbalanced accusation in itself, suggested only as an effort to try to prove how uniquely unbalanced this whole argument in itself is.
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PT24881Aug. 04, 2012 - 09:27PM JST

The coaches were shocked simply because they tried to avoid head-on blames upon returning to Japan. Agreed with a few posters who pointed out correctly -- sportsmanship is beyond simple quantifying medals ( & colors ) secured ! However, politicians want to make full use of these " glorious victories "..