Sunday May 27, 2012

Olympic opening uses girl's voice, not face

Olympics ( 75 )

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  • 0

    OssanULTRA

    I've never heard of a Chinese female named Miaoke. If I heard it I'd swear it was Japanese.

  • 0

    flammenwerfer

    so they lip synced it, so what? in a world where image is so highly valued I cant really blame them.

  • 0

    UnagiDon

    Anyone know how to say "Milli Vanilli" Mandarin? And no, it's not Mirri Banirri - that's obviously Japanese.

  • 0

    Richard_the_First

    You could see she was miming anyway. No big deal.

  • 0

    Alphaape

    Well, I guess this little girl is learning early on in life that it is not about talent, but how you look. I am sure that she will be a piece of work in later years. As for the acutal singer, another life lesson to be learned is that in a "classless society" that the offical doctrine tries to present, there is no such thing as "One China" or "United China" where everyone is equal. If you present the right image, you will get a few extra perks. If not, you will continue to contribute to the "state" and do so cheerfully, but you will still remain in the shadows.

  • 0

    LIBERTAS

    The opening ceremony is second to the key point of the games, the games themselves. It's a show. Entertainment. Flash, bang and pizazz! That's what we wanted. That's what we got. Whether lip-sync, CG fireworks or whatever. It was a show. And a good one at that. Spielberg could hardly have done better. The "Games" have begun! (Minus the saturation coverage on three channels of some guy endlessly taping and un-taping his wrists, or some girl seemingly endlessly adjusting her socks and wiping sweat away.) Enjoy!

  • 0

    Betting

    The world is becoming even more a sad place, especially with some of the above comments. They just affirm that you don't need any ability, you just need the looks to be rich and successful, because in this world being rich and successful is what life is all about.

    It is a big deal. It is a big deal because it shows how some people value success, wealth and how they are perceived by others above all else. Having a society where everyone was considered to be equal and of equal merit was just a big sham, a big sham like this song and its performance. To replace the singer in the name of "national interest" is thoroughly disgusting. Why was the singer replaced? Because she wasn't cute enough?

    As one of the Chinese bloggers wrote, "There are no ugly children". It's a pity their own government can't acknowledge this fact either.

  • 0

    Kijimuna

    This reporting that the cute singer's voice wasn't good enough is the reverse of the way it has been reported, i.e. that the singer's face wasn't cute enough. Either way, I'm surprised this story found the light of day. Re-education for a certain music director, perhaps?

  • 0

    Statistician

    Perhaps the biggest anti-China non-story yet to emerge from Beijing

  • 0

    undecidedbout08

    Perhaps the biggest anti-China non-story yet to emerge from Beijing

    and then there is this

    http://digg.com/olympics/Spanish_Basketball_Team_in_Racist_Ad

  • 0

    flammenwerfer

    the utilized the natural talents and assets of both little girls, the cute girl was the originally supposed to sing it but 'they' decided her voice wasn't good enough, so they used the voice of the other girl. Both girls got publicity out of it in the end and the singing girl will be known as the voice of the Olympics, the cute girl the face of the Olympics. Both get something out of it. Welcome to reality, where looks count, why are billions spent yearly on plastic surgery, hair loss products, beauty products etc etc.

    FWIW. The singing girl was an average looking girl, by no means ugly. There are no ugly children, some are just cuter than others ;-)

  • 0

    rajakumar

    No problems for me, with using of another girl's voice.

  • 0

    Kijimuna

    hehe, flammenwerfer, I suppose we're saying real-life mashups are okay, whether disclosed or not? Maybe that's how alter-reality we regard our media now. It no longer matters if what our eyes are showing us are real, because we use TV to get away from life, not to draw into it. That could explain a lot about American political behavior the last eight years...

  • 0

    burikko

    Chinese government doesn't need whole personality of individual but needs only their voice or face. The nationals are parts of the machine of great country.

  • 0

    burikko

    Chinese government said to the girl. "Your face isn't adaptable for TV show. You should hide yourself at backyard.". What a cruel explanation.

  • 0

    Athletes

    I have watched many movies including Japanese, Korean,India, Chinese & American musical movies before. Most of the songs they sang in the movies were dubbed by professional singers. In the reality, Actor & Actress have good looks. However their voice are not so good. Audience want to see the good looking images from screen.

    Why not movie producer hire the singers for movie instead of actor & actress? The answer is their looks are not attractive to audience. Even in the ancient time, musical concert were presented by good looking entertainers & voice came from hidden place. It has been exsited for thousand yrs. For young kid, it may be a bit dissapointment. For adult, it is a not big problem.

  • 0

    yukisnowflake

    I knew the girl was lipsynching but I am very dissappointed to learn that it was not her own singing voice she was lipsynching to but some other girls voice.

    I am left feeling I & others have been had.

  • 0

    TettoeAung

    I hope the IOC got what it hope to achieve out of the games. It's the TV and the looks rather than the substance. People living in the West may find this appalling but for us in Asia it's not a surprise any more. Truth doesn't have that much currency to some no matter in what position they are in.

  • 0

    omarbabilon

    Now you can understand why China is the motherland of fake...

  • 0

    omarbabilon

    They should do the same as Japan does... let "cute" people but not talented at all show us their "voice"...

  • 0

    Alphaape

    When they make movies, I understand that the real actors are not doing the stunts, or singing or doing some of the things on the screen. That is part of "imagination" of going to see a movie. But in this case, I think it does send a bad message.

    Yes I get that the whole opening ceremony was to showcase China to the world. But what does this tell us, that if you don't quite "measure" up, they will replace you in an effort to "save face." When the games are supposed to be about amature athletes (the IOC has left that mark a long time ago), doing their best, here we get the message, your best is not enough (singing girl with voice) so we will help you (pretty girl with face). If they would do this, I guess it would not be too far to suspect that they would probably try to help their athletes in various ways too (judges, drugs, etc).

  • 0

    burikko

    Athletes,

    Why it is not a big problem? It was a cheating by the official organization. Yeh, they had wanted to trick us.

  • 0

    PepinGalarga

    They should have saved themselves 300 Million and CG the whole thing.

    Heck, save $40 billion and just tell Lebron to stay home, they will use the NBA Live 2008 motion captures.

    these decisions may be normal in China, but not in other places. Similar things happen when ordering container fulls of things, and room service.

  • 0

    Triumvere

    Proving once again that China simply does not understand how it is viewed by, or how to present itself to, the western world.

    They used the cute girl because they were afraid that the not-so-cute one would potentially "reflect poorly" on them or "damage their national image".

    Well, using a less cute girl woundn't have, but this story certainly has. The leadership come of as phoney, callous, image obsessed and out of touch.

  • 0

    nigelboy

    Milli Vanilli of China. Wow.

  • 0

    Xennon

    Don't know about Chinese children but if they are just as cruel as other children from around the world these poor girls are gonna be in for a rough time.

  • 0

    TonyUS

    stand against what China did with this and find no excuses to make it right. Those that do can kiss my butt.....as they kiss the butts of the CCP and organizers with the mentality formed by such rule. Atleast the truth is out and just shows China's deceitful ways that are of a common occurrence of that country. Also this falls in line with the notorious treatment and degrading the government places on all its citizens, as they are used like dogs, thrown a bone every once in a while to make them think they have some sort of value. To bad this time they took the bone back..

    Just my opinion.

  • 0

    presto345

    What's the big deal? The opening ceremony of the greatest olympics in history is a big show, like someone said before. It is filled with lots of magic and hidden tricks in this perfectly orchestrated extravaganza that are designed to surprise, impress and left us in wonder. This was just a small part of it all. And I liked the result.

  • 0

    PepinGalarga

    people were looking for a reason to complain and this gives them the carte blanche. It may not be a hugely serious disaster that many were HOPING would happen, so they hold on to this and make the biggest fuss. Yeah, they screwed up, we know it, but the ceremony went very well otherwise. There's very few other countries that could put such a show.

  • 0

    burikko

    I don't like viewing games. But I'm very interested in this Olympic. How many tragedies and comedies are performed around the Olympic?

  • 0

    minkaboo

    Asians are face-obsessed? Nahhhhhh...how shocking. If this kid was an adult, she would've had plastic surgery.

  • 0

    minkaboo

    Asian need to change our obsessions with pretty face and become fascinated with characters and personality.

  • 0

    TonyUS

    Pepin .. with 40 billion dollars at anyone exposal I am sure anyone could pull it off

  • 0

    TonyUS

    Presto .. the games has went well in show and presentation of the games, no doubt, except of course some of the controversial judging which happens in all Olympics, but what is show and what is underlying truth are two different things. You can praise what you see but none should be blind to what is not seen and covered up . I find that very tragic not just for those outside of China but especially for the Chinese people. If we stood on all that nonsense then China would be no where were it is today because they would have had no incentive to make changes now or in the past, and the losers would be everyone including mainly the people of China. Not everything is so simplistic. or black and white.

  • 0

    blaze524

    TonyUS So anyone that "makes an excuse" (aren't they providing another perspective?) is kissing the butt of the CCP? And I particularly love this gem:

    "If we stood on all that nonsense then China would be no where were it is today because they would have had no incentive to make changes now or in the past, and the losers would be everyone including mainly the people of China"

    Who's we? I did not realize that the Chinese are where they are today because "we" were critical to their success. What exactly did we do to merit such high praise?

    I agree with you on one thing though, not everything is black and white, and can easily be explained away as "kissing the CCPs butt".

  • 0

    yukisnowflake

    So much for the Olympic ideals of 'Sense of Fair Play'!

  • 0

    TonyUS

    Blaze have you ever heard of engagement??? When China was this closed isolated country, you tell me who made the incentive to approach China and start negotiations which brought the country out of its isolation from the world. You can give the facts to a kindergardner and they can figure that out.

  • 0

    TonyUS

    As I have stated and the point being. China has belittled its people just for the sake of the governments own hold on power. This is just an example of that.

  • 0

    themadstudent

    I hope people don't blame the cute girl for the Olympic organizers' call. I'm sure she wouldn't have chosen to lip sinc the song if she had a choice. I'd like to hear her sing at some point before the Olympics ends, possibly in a duet with the other girl.

    It was a bad call, and really displays their paranoia, but it's far from the worst thing they have done so far. However, the Beijing organizers could still salvage this situation if they try.

  • 0

    Sarge

    This article is useless without photos of the two little charmers:

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/asia-pacific/7556058.stm

    Actually, I think Yang Peiyi is even cuter...

  • 0

    burikko

    Chinese government consider their national as a spare part of big machine. The government needs not whole personality of individual but a useful part of human.

    I would like to call it fascism.

  • 0

    SuperLib

    The lip-syncing isn't that big of a deal. It's not like we couldn't tell. And trusting a 7-year old to sing live in from of 91,000 people and TV cameras seems kind of risky.

    But where they screwed up was by awarding the part to Yang Peiyi, then taking it away from her. She was replaced just before the ceremony so up until that point in time she was going to be the singer. Someone basically had to go and tell her she's not pretty enough and that some other girl will be used instead. Not cool.

  • 0

    seansezso

    The controversy can be solved by one simple question: At the ceremony were both lasses' names announced? Was Peiyi properly identified as the voice?

    It does not matter whether you fancy lip-syncing or not. I certainly do not. I would prefer to see the true singer, but that is just my humble opinion. Where I absolutely draw the line is honesty. If they tried to snooker us and make us think it was Miaoke's voice, then they are absolutely out of bounds, and that would be fact. The blokes who made the decision (not the lasses) deserve the same derision as Milli Vanilli in such case. But if they clearly stated the situation before or during the ceremony, then they are ship shape. Which is it? One would think the reporters would tell us these things..... Ah! Sorry, I forgot an important concept! Reporters earn their bread through controversy, so they leave these things out on purpose! Blasted profit incentive!

  • 0

    seansezso

    But where they screwed up was by awarding the part to Yang Peiyi, then taking it away from her.

    Superlib, read the article mate. Particularly this part:

    During the live rehearsal, the Politburo member said Miaoke’s voice “must change,” Chen said.

    Aye, I know the start of the article has it backward. But its straightened out in the middle. Peiyi was chosen to cover Miaoke's voice, not Miaoke to cover Peiyi's face. The press is just attempting to generate more stink than there actually is.

  • 0

    TonyUS

    So Sea.. you are actually saying they took cute over talent.. Still wrong np matter how you look at it.

    It is a shame this goes on. especially involving little kids at that.

    One positive, is it was found out by the world public and the original talent was exposed. :) But another bit of dirt in China's face.

  • 0

    TheNewZen

    I don't see what the big deal is.

    Media worldwide today values goods looks and sexy more than skills and talent. There was even a report on Discovery about it where they talked to music producers worldwide and the consensus was that if you ain't got the looks you can't cut it today. They prefer a look now as it can also sell Videos, merchandise, etc more than just music. Example for that is American idol(hate that show).

    When was the last time you saw a famous singer that didn't look hot? Very few out there like Enya, etc.

  • 0

    blaze524

    TonyUS... Why don't you answer my questions and give me these facts of yours? I will pass them onto my neighbor's child and we'll put your theory to the test.

      • You use extreme language to say people who make excuses for China (regardless of the reasonableness of the excuses) are butt kissers to the CCP. I would like for you to qualify this statement.
      • You make a very strong assertion that "we" have been instrumental to China's emergence. I would like for you to explain who "we" are and roughly how we did it. Last I checked, it was Deng Xiaoping deciding to open China's doors to the world and not because of any one nation's prodding. Also please explain this point: if it is true what you say, and that we have helped China to where it is at today, the question becomes where exactly is China today? If you say that China's present situation is terrible, then we are instrumental for it being terrible. In which case, why should China listen to anything else the we have to say? If, however, you say that China's present condition is great (I defy you take this route) then it becomes why are you bashing it at every opportunity?
      • You state: "China has belittled it's people just for the sake of the governments own hold on power". I'm not that smart, so can you please clarify the link between a creative decision to use the face of one girl and the voice of another to the CCP belittling the people to maintain its hold on power?

    Failing that, you have once again demonstrated exactly what I discussed with you on the other board and that is using every single opportunity to bash China. I have stated that China has problems, it would be foolish and disingenuous to suggest otherwise. However, it would be nice if you could temperate your extreme rants with some balanced analysis. You go on the attack at the drop of a hat, bringing up issues that are wholly irrelevant to the article (notice I said article, and not irrelevant in general).

  • 0

    blaze524

    seansezso...kudos to you for pointing that line out. Can't believe I missed it completely.

  • 0

    seansezso

    So Sea.. you are actually saying they took cute over talent..

    No. They took both. Peiyi's voice could be clearly heard as Miaoke could be clearly seen. My only question is if they told us it was Peiyi's voice or tried to hide the fact.

    But lets not say cuteness. Lets say beauty. We value beauty, whether its a beautiful voice or a beautiful face. I seriously doubt that Peiyi started with a horrid voice and worked hard to make it beautiful, any more than Miaoke started with an ugly face and made it beautiful. She was born with her voice just as the other girl was born with her face. I am sure Peiyi did some work to improve her voice and singing ability. But I am sure Miaoke has also practiced her smile and her walk, etc.

    If you choose one over the other, you are stating an opinion. So long as the situation is presented honestly and up front, we can have no solid criticism. As long as Peiyi is properly credited and praised, justice is satisfied. Was she? I have my doubts.

  • 0

    seansezso

    Should have said above, but beauty has value, whether its in looks or voice. Best not to over-value looks, that is a trap mankind has faced over and over. But looks still have value.

    And blaze524, kudos to you for saying so. Always glad to help.

  • 0

    TonyUS

    First off.. Monitors, this is in direct response to Blaze’s comments made directly to me so be patient because this will end the spat.  Thanks

    Blaze you have that all wrong. Nixon's opening if China is history and fact. Do not try putting some ridiculous spin on any of that documented history. US approached China and that is when the door was cracked and then opened and if you have not looked around you in the last 20 years, take notice of the trade and country of origin stamped on the majority of products, and not just here in the US but of all western nations that engaged in the active engagement policy the US has taken with CHina.. And give credit where credit is due when it comes to reforming China’s economic policies. As it was Zhoa Ziyan . you know the one that was kept under house arrest after Tiananmen Square Slaughter until he dies a couple years back.. Would you like to read a little on that.. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zhao_Ziyang. What a sham the CCP stuck to him huh? You say so many things I state is irrelevant to a topic. I guess that one is too, haha But facts are facts and pf course some do not like the facts throughout history or want to face the facts. That is why they need to be stated again and again because all is relevant when making a point or proving a point. For issues to be not relevant it sure seems to bring the anger out in a few and try to distort the facts as being irrelevant although it does give the frame work for the initial picture. If you have a lack of articles read, I think you need to broaden your scope a little, There are thousands of articles from government agencies, independent new agencies,and major news agencies that could be of good reading even if you do not agree with what is reported, one should keep an open mind because there are many things O have seen people in denial pass off as lies, and acuse another of bad grammer or spelling because they will not admit to the truth. but when the issue is of a repeating process it is hard to pass of the facts as to be fiction. I guess you would like to have the thousands of articles listed for you to read of deceptive tactics of the CCP as with this little instance here with the singer. But you know, I took many many hours over the years reading, understanding and listening to eye witnessed events in China that if you have not taken such time to indulge in the reports and topics on a daily basis you are wasting my time and your words are the words that are groundless.

    As for belittlement of the people. That is a no brainer to anyone that knows any of China’s history and events within China today such as for keeping them with out a voice, detaining them and putting them into political re-education programs is they do not see eye to eye with the Communist rule. No reports need to be mentioned on that issue, but you can deny that fact if you like, but no one will listen

    I do not care if you want to live in some fantasy or try to give China praise of such, just shows you are one of the subjects taken in by the CCP propaganda machine or part of it, or maybe not been out of China for very long and still believe in the deception that for many years, and still being taught in China. What ever the reason is for your twist on issues, that is exactly what it is a twist or denial of the facts. If it was not for Nixon and his ( I have always seen as stupid and ignorant) move on engagement with China, China would have stayed a closed society for many years after. Go get some history books and read them , not out of China I must add, but information in history books of the free world. It is a shame you and the Chinese government will not admit to how the world had broke open China from the isolation it kept its people in for so many years to be a participant in an international setting. What a pity especially for Chinese people trying to fit into the world community, where the CCP has made it so difficult still for the world to see their nation as a threat and of a country that can not be trusted

    All is relevant when it comes to the topic of China because all that has went on in China has brought China to the way it is today and how it is seen today and that is a country that no one can trust. How many articles do you need to understand that as fact??? You see them everyday such as this one..

  • 0

    TonyUS

    seansezso

    So long as the situation is presented honestly and up front, we can have no solid criticism

    It is not stated in this artivle how the truth came out. Was it up front or was it not suppose to come out? I have not read an article that says how it came out, where do you get your information as it being presented openly and honestly? I did read in this article...

    So in a last-minute move demanded by one of China’s highest officials

  • 0

    TonyUS

    I do not know what the leaders of China think they can get away with , but as they keep trying to deceive the world, they are only making China less and less credible. As for fake singers and little girls not pretty enough, to fake fireworks on news broadcasts to faking little Chinese children as being ethnic Tibetan children trying to show the harmony that the leaders wish for all to believe , again a fantasy they could only dream about.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/othersports/olympics/2561979/Beijing-Olympics-Ethnic-children-exposed-as-fakes-in-opening-ceremony.html

    "Hey as long as they are up front and honest about it". Joke of the day! Why China continues to present itself as something that it is not is just pathetic and a disgrace to the country. Always hiding the truths, promising one thing and doing another. Telling a little girl she is not pretty enough,

    Seansezso.. I must remind you we are talking about children. You say “”But lets not say cuteness. Lets say beauty. We value beauty, whether its a beautiful voice or a beautiful face””.You know growing up and I mind you. This is about children here, not adults… Kids have always been referred to as being cute, beauty may be of the sole but as outward appearances, beautiful was not a judgment made to describe looks of a child as in outer features which we are talking about here with crooked teeth and not looking good enough to present some uplifting a song of national pride, now if we are describing a little girl put in a fancy dress, made up as an object to be admired , sure you could say she looks so beautiful, but Yang Peiyi dressed in beautiful clothes and makup also would be seen as beautiful as in presentation. But this is beauty as in material,a nd this is exactly what I see the leaders of China trying to put focus on, not the beauty of the people but the false beauty they are always trying to get everyone to believe in when at the root of all this is the deceptive ways of the government of China and it goes on and on and on

    But back to the point… Both girls have inter beauty, but on the outside they are both cute and not an object of ones affection. So if you wish to leave the cutness out, and concentrate on one being bueatiful and the other little girl as not being, I think you have a problem and put a beautiful dress on the one that is said not to have good looks!

  • 0

    seansezso

    where do you get your information as it being presented openly and honestly? I did read in this article...

    I believe every other sentence I wrote here clearly stated "if". The one you picked might be vague, but note that it says "is" not "was". I have no idea how it was found out. But I find the the omission of that fact suspicious on the part of the press. Could be an accident of stupidly not asking the relevant questions, but could also be an attempt to generate more stink.

    You know growing up and I mind you. This is about children here, not adults… Kids have always been referred to as being cute

    Beauty is a general subheading under which "cute" rests. I only made the statement because to say "cute voice" would have been strange. But in a general sense, children can be beautiful too, so I don't see any purpose to take issue saying so, except cultural bias.

    Telling a little girl she is not pretty enough,

    False. They told a little girl her voice wasn't good enough. Either that or they never told her directly, but told organizers and got the program changed. I have not read anything about either girl being upset about the situation.

    So if you wish to leave the cutness out, and concentrate on one being bueatiful and the other little girl as not being, I think you have a problem and put a beautiful dress on the one that is said not to have good looks!

    I don't think you appreciate the fact that Miaoke already had the part. If you pulled her out completely, it could have been devastating, as it would have been last minute. So either they just go with Miaoke as is, or have the girls collaberate. I have no problem either way if they are up front about the collaberation. I don't think they were up front, but I have no proof.

  • 0

    aedfed

    It's an unfortunate misstep by the Chinese Games organizers. Had they used her face and dubbed her own voice, it would have been understandable -- who knows how a child will react under that kind of pressure. That would have been the same as the Pavarotti case, which doesn't seem to have caused much controversy.

    The most bizarre comment to come out of the whole thing is by Lin's father who: “still cannot believe his daughter has become an international singing sensation.” He doesn't seem to realize that to be a singing sensation, you need to actually sing . . .

  • 0

    seansezso

    The most bizarre comment to come out of the whole thing is by Lin's father who: “still cannot believe his daughter has become an international singing sensation.” He doesn't seem to realize that to be a singing sensation, you need to actually sing . . .

    Maybe he is well aware of the fact, hence his disbelief? Who knows what the politiburo is telling him.

  • 0

    cwhite

    basically the 7 year old needed extensive cosmetic surgery is what the Chinese officials are saying...

  • 0

    cwhite

    which is much easier then doing a voice transplant...

  • 0

    blaze524

    TonyUS First off, thanks for bringing the topic of Zhao Ziyang to my attention. I wasn't aware of that. So now you've answered one of my questions. Now what about the other 2 questions?

    Now, your knowledge may or may possibly be profound, but your logic is certainly flawed. Read carefully: I don't live in a fantasy land. You're making the assumption that because I am defending the CCP, I must be part of the CCP propaganda machine and living in a fantasy land. This is quite a leap in logic seeing as how you don't know the first thing about me other than some comments I posted on a forum. And that is the reason why I asked Question #2. How are people that defend the CCP butt kissers? There are aspects of the CCP that are good. This isn't a case of the entire adminstration and all of its actions being evil and that the US is the force of good, bringing light to the darkness of the cave dwelling, unenlightened Chinese. In short, this isn't Lord of the Rings. You are the one that is making wild accusations. You need to prove that I am a CCP shill and you have practically zero evidence to back that up.

    Its funny how you say you've spent many hours reading and understanding this topic, but you don't seem to understand basic English or a word of what I wrote. I have made this clear but you constantly ignore parts of my post. Now, let me say this for the third time and please do not gloss over this again -- I never once said that China did not oppress its people or that it should not be criticized for its transgressions. I don't deny that these things happen. I merely stated that these topics are unrelated to the story people are discussing. And yet you use ad hominem attacks by constantly pigeonholing me into the role of CCP apologist as a means to discredit my arguments.

    "All is relevant when it comes to the topic of China because all that has went on in China has brought China to the way it is today and how it is seen today and that is a country that no one can trust." - that's the thing, we're not discussing China in general, but the decision by the director of an entertainment event to use one girl's voice and another girl's face. If the article was about human rights abuses in China, sure it would be fair game to bring in a host of topics. This has nothing to do with putting people in political re-education programs, human rights, or freedom of speech. What you are doing is spamming the forums with your opinions.

  • 0

    TonyUS

    Blaze.. First off since you have been enlightened By the name Zhoa Zyang, it seems your back ground on China is not that extensive or just been kept from that information if you are from China, Many sites are available and the international attention the Tiananmen Massacre received across the world it surprises me you have not read in depth about it if you are interested in China. I regret I do not have a list of all the articles I have read and gathered information from to enlighten you more of to where my so called rant and accusations originated from. It is not rant when it is truth and it is not accusations when based on regular activities of China’s government from the past and of the present as a norm. At one time I use to save articles I found informative and interesting about China, believe it or not. !00,000 troops sent into a rural farming area, farmers shot dead from protesting, which I forget the details right now, but there is always one thing after another and it all comes down to the violation of just the basics of human rights.

    Secondly I do not have to prove you are anyone, as your words, thoughts and ideas pretty much tells everyone who you are as a person and what your perception on the issues are, just as my words shape my character and beliefs.

    You say…I never once said that China did not oppress its people or that it should not be criticized for its transgressions. I don't deny that these things happen…..

    Then you tell me to show proof that the CCP belittles its people.. Come on what is this?

    Again with this…..we're not discussing China in general, but the decision by the director of an entertainment event to use one girl's voice and another girl's face. The directors decision.. We need to get this straight as for fact…

    The article states…”So in a last-minute move demanded by one of China’s highest officials….

    Now as you wish to state this is erelevant or that is irrelevent, I believe all is relevent when it comes to the norm of the CCP and its officials to continually demoralize its people. Maybe you may say this is a small incident, but when these actions come to light again and again. It is… all relevent because these actions one by one is the whole, of what the ;leadership of China stands for and yes it is relevent as to human rights and as you have agreed some what in your opwn way by your statement…

    I never once said that China did not oppress its people or that it should not be criticized for its transgressions. I don't deny that these things happen.<<<

    I am pointing out the connection and the norm of the CCP and to make excuses for them is just trying to forget or ignore the problem with the leadership that has kept its grip over society that has only hampered the rise of the people as a society based on the people, which now is based on those that have silenced them and belittled them.

    To take one issue and try to consentrate on it as a single development or issue and try and keep it separate from the other thousand incisents going on continuously in China is a mis representation of the truth, or whole issue. If there is repetition , and If you follow the topic of China, I am sure you see acts of repatition with human rights violations, which all comes down to human rights, any way as I was saying,,, If there is repetition in acts against society or breaches in human rights, then all is connected and this shows there is a problem with this type of rule. To make on incedent seem small and another one just another small incedent is not holding these guys responsible for their power exerted upon its helpless citizens that have no power. This is what I try to get across and for people to realize. That it does no good to make excuses for those that are the sole barriers of responsibility of the belittlement of people and this instance is just another form of the belittlement of the people of China by the CCP and its system forced upon 1.2 billion people.

    Just wondering.. What did you think of the substituting the local Chinese children playing them off as Tibetan children for a show of show social harmony to the world?

  • 0

    TonyUS

    I am pointing out the connection and the norm of the CCP and to make excuses for them is just trying to forget or ignore the problem with the leadership that has kept its grip over society that has only hampered the rise of the people as a society based on the people, which now is based on those that have silenced them and belittled them.

    To take one issue and try to consentrate on it as a single development or issue and try and keep it separate from the other thousand incisents going on continuously in China is a mis representation of the truth, or whole issue. If there is repetition , and If you follow the topic of China, I am sure you see acts of repatition with human rights violations, which all comes down to human rights, any way as I was saying,,, If there is repetition in acts against society or breaches in human rights, then all is connected and this shows there is a problem with this type of rule. To make on incedent seem small and another one just another small incedent is not holding these guys responsible for their power exerted upon its helpless citizens that have no power. This is what I try to get across and for people to realize. That it does no good to make excuses for those that are the sole barriers of responsibility of the belittlement of people and this instance is just another form of the belittlement of the people of China by the CCP and its system forced upon 1.2 billion people.

    Just wondering.. What did you think of the substituting the local Chinese children playing them off as Tibetan children for a show of show social harmony to the world?

  • 0

    TonyUS

    Sorry typo. 1.2 billion people was suppose to be 1.3 billion people

  • 0

    ProudKoreanGuy

    Seems there were just too many things at the ceremony that turn out not to be what they seem.

  • 0

    ProudKoreanGuy

    Sorry typo. 1.2 billion people was suppose to be 1.3 billion people

    Bleh, 1.2 billion or 1.3 billion - both are still over a billion.

  • 0

    swordfish2502

    At one time I use to save articles I found informative and interesting about China, believe it or not. !00,000 troops sent into a rural farming area, farmers shot dead from protesting, which I forget the details right now, but there is always one thing after another and it all comes down to the violation of just the basics of human rights.

    Hi Tony. Would u please tell me more about this? Especially Date. U konw we Chinese have such a long history, it could be 2008 BC!

    PS, Zhao Ziyang is a great man, and he was the Chairman of CCP at that time, but unfortunately tragedy happened after he was taken from the office. That is really the darkest moment in last 20 years. But u know who was standing next to Zhao Ziyang when he gave his last speech to the students in tiananmen before he was under hourse arrest, that is Wen Jiabao, the PM of THIS government. So, we will see. san shi nian he dong, san shi nian he xi.

  • 0

    Nessie

    A real black eye for China. It shows how backwards the nation is in face transplant technology.

  • 0

    blaze524

    TonyUS

    As for your question....What did you think of the substituting the local Chinese children playing them off as Tibetan children for a show of show social harmony to the world? ---I thought it was a bad move. They should have used children from real ethnic minorities.

  • 0

    Terrikus

    I thought it was all 56 minorities, not just "Tibetan" children.

  • 0

    lipscombe

    Zhang Yimou directed one of the most emotional, incredible and lo-fi films ever made Not One Less a central theme of which is the exploitation of children. guess he forgot about it.

  • 0

    TonyUS

    awordfish, I did do a search and found an article covering more than just the one incident I was referring too. This is sad and just one of the reasons that has shaped my opposition towards the system in China and why Human rights has to be a must for China and its continuation integrating into the global community. It is for the billion people with out a voice, without power or enforcement of laws to protect basic rights. I do not hate Chinese people, what I hate is the people living under unfair representation. pr no representation on many fronts and the only way these changes will take place is pressure and a price to pay by the CCP if they do not fall in line to society being the main element shaping society in China. No matter the argument I disagree that this is the case today when people can not speak out, or are afraid to speak out.

  • 0

    TonyUS

    Proud Korean... If you have not realized , when there are posts against China, those that wish to take a side pro-China will take any miss quote, grammar or spelling and change the issue to that mistake. I have learned that again and again, over the years. So if I catch something before submitting a post I will change it or try to correct it immediately with a follow up. But there are times I get in a hurry and read it later after posted and think, wow I am going to be criticized on this one.

  • 0

    fds

    china is a nation of cheats.

    they cheated with lip syncing this ode to the motherland they cheated with the olympic fireworks they cheated intellectual property rights owners of their rights they cheated the tibetians of their rights they cheated on their promised free internet access. they cheated using a 14 yr old gymnast. the question is what won't they cheat at.

  • 0

    TonyUS

    Terrikus, from all the different reports I have read it does state all 56 ethnic groups were substituded with Han chinese children, Some concentrate on Tibetan Children, as it is a hot topic at the time

  • 0

    TonyUS

    Sword sorry I forgot to include the site and report.

    http://articles.latimes.com/2006/apr/19/world/fg-rural19

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