Europe’s racism problem
Europeans look at citizenship in terms of race and blood. Having fought each other for so long over so little territory, an “us vs. them” mentality, accompanied by the feeling that their people are superior to others, has been bred into their national sensibilities. The immigrant integration issues plaguing European societies today can be understood in the context of this racism, pure and simple.
The legacy of colonialism, and the failure to acknowledge its lasting impacts, is an endless burden for European societies and their immigrant communities. Europeans’ deep feelings of national superiority have bred hostility towards the perceived “outsiders” living in their midst. Immigrants, some having lived for generations in France, Italy, the UK, Germany, or elsewhere, are never truly considered to be, or accepted as, citizens.
Such feelings of superiority are absent for a number of reasons in a place like Canada. Canadians have constructed a society that accounts for differences. Here, the concept of citizenship is more post-modern and inclusive.
Let’s be clear. It is not that different kinds of people in Canada necessarily agree with one another or love or have an affinity with one another. Neither does it mean there aren’t serious challenges facing immigrant communities in my country. Rather, it is that Canadian society acts to meet the needs of all people, including the “others” that are not “us.”
Canadian society treats all as citizens. In many European countries, the laws are designed in a way that makes it difficult for immigrants to ever gain citizenship. In a country like Germany, for example, people live for generations as temporary workers without any realistic prospect of becoming citizens.
When I lived in France, I had a Portuguese housekeeper – a wonderful woman who had been in France for 37 years. She had a card that said she was a temporary worker. If she had done something like run her bicycle into a truck and caused an accident, she could have been deported within 24 hours. She had never voted. She effectively had no civil voice.
Canada has been successful in large part because immigrants are brought to the country with a clear track to become citizens. That simply is not true for Europe.
When I was governor general, the Dutch ambassador to Canada told me that the reason Canada’s system works and the Dutch system doesn’t is that the Netherlands deliberately went to the most ignorant villages to get people who didn’t know left from right, who couldn’t count or read in any language, much less Dutch, so that they could use them as economic units and send them home when they didn’t want them anymore.
These people have now established their lives in the Netherlands. They have children, and their children have become citizens. But they live in a country that didn’t want them in the first place.
The Canadian experience is much different. I arrived in Canada in 1942, when I was about two and a half years old – young enough that I didn’t remember any of the traumas of war I had experienced. My family took refuge in Canada from the Japanese bombardment of Hong Kong. We were welcomed here, and were given a civic voice in this country.
Canada is very much a country of people who’ve had to begin again. It was built by people who were illiterate, who were poor, and who nobody else wanted. These are the people Canada welcomed, and these are the people who have made Canada. We can never forget that.
But Canada should not be smug about its success. We’ve had our share of shameful lapses on our way towards valuing the “other” and acting as a society to meet their needs. I believe that the heart of darkness is in every man and in every nation. We’ve seen through our world history where nationalism can lead.
Europeans must confront the racism that is preventing their immigrant communities from becoming, or even feeling like, citizens. It’s easy to find cohesion among a group of people who are familiar, and whom we like. It’s much harder, but necessary, to construct a society with those we might never like.
Author Infomation
- Adrienne Clarkson
- Adrienne Clarkson was born in Hong Kong in 1939, and came to Canada as a refugee with her parents in 1942. In 1999, after a rich and distinguished career in broadcasting, journalism, the arts, and public service, Clarkson became Canada’s 26th governor general. She was the first immigrant to receive this title. Since leaving the office of governor general, Adrienne Clarkson has founded the Institute for Canadian Citizenship (ICC), whose purpose is to help acculturate new Canadian citizens into mainstream Canadian life.
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77 Comments
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7
OMGhontoni
Whoa! Down on Europe much??! This entire article just smacks of a massive inferiority complex - "we Canadians are fab, you Europeans are crap."
Canada is indeed a wonderful place, and Europe does indeed have its problems but you cant take one or two personal examples and apply it to an entire continent. Or maybe you can.
5
Equality
When I saw that Adrienne Clarkson had written this article I couldn't believe it! Such sweeping generalizations are usually reserved for the narrow-minded and those with an overly simplified world-view, not from a (well-travelled) former attorney general! While her arguments ring true in many cases, as a Canadian, I would have preferred that she qualify some of these overarching statements and been a little more selective with her words.
2
oikawa
I think she's right in a lot of what of she says, but of course it will be true by definition when you have a country founded so recently based on equal immigration and rights for all, as opposed to a massive continent with thousands of years of violent antagonistic history. It's like commenting that Norway does better than Kenya at winter sports and questioning why..
1
FightingViking
Being of mixed European heritage myself, I never had trouble "blending in" any of the European countries where I have lived. I have been able to work "full-time" in countries of which I do not hold a passport. When I visited Canada, I was a little surprised by the number of stores displaying Red-Indian paraphernalia although there were no Red Indians anywhere to be seen...
1
NeverSubmit
Each country has a right to decide their own citizenship rules.
What right does a Canadian have to tell a Croat what the definition of a Croat is.
Each of the myriad of countries in Europe have their own language, food, history and culture. If they want to maintain that then let them.
Just because they value and respect their own culture and heritage doesn't make them racist.
6
majimekun
First of all, the whole article is full of nonsenses especially when read by a french person like me. When I'm in France and i take the train to go back home (suburb of Paris), I'm very often the only white guy in the whole wagon! If France was such a racist country, there would't be so many migrants from north-africa and africa in general. Also, i doubt that a country that lets Mohamed Merrah'father sue itself could be labelled "racist" ; http://m.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-18401787
But the most important for me is to know what kind of society we want? How far multi-cultural should we go? Personnally, I would hate to never feel a little bit of exotism whatever country I choose to travel to. When I visited Canada, I felt the country lacked its proper soul. It was like a giant mall filled with people from all over the world seemingly lacking any form of cultural cohesion. I would really hate to see all the other countries go this way.
-14
Cat5
More countries should stand up and nail Europeans to the wall.
Failing indebted economies (except germany) threatening to bring the rest of the world. Rampant open mass racism, which is the point of the article, that doesn't appear to show up anywhere else in the world except europe.
Anyone see the street brawls between russia and poland? This is used to be the exclusive domain of british hooligans fighting, mostly, german fans. I guess fighting over sport is just too much fun for these people.
Under the veneer of supposed "high society" punctuated by romantic castles, ornate churches and privileged aristocratic projections lies a harsh ugly shadow that europeans can't or refuse to see, but the rest of world totally can.
-3
Thomas Anderson
On average, I tend to think that English-speaking countries (Australia, US, Canada) etc are less racist, smug, etc (yes, even the US). They are just not very pretentious.
6
AiserX
The article fell apart with bot3 the following three 1)First paragraph 2) Title and 3) that quoted sentence.
Even the comment section is as obtuse as Clarkson. First of all the third world especially in Africa is rampant with bloody murderous racism.
Its not the role of Europeans to bend over backwards and assimilate with their immigrant populations, but the opposite. If an immigrant is not feeling "welcomed" then by this dunce women's logic its the society at large' fault. The blame can ever only go unto the individual and its only because of certain immigrants that have no idea and desire to assimilate into their new host country. Some want to bring their backwards third world customs while living under 1st world standards of living, unacceptable.
4
Frank Vaughn
Racism is as old as different races and only changes at a snails pace over the centuries. I've visited Canada and in my personal experience there is racism there, not as bad as some other countries, but it is there.
This quote is mostly correct. A society should reach out and welcome the newcomer, but if the newcomer wants to avoid racism they need to assimilate and adopt the standards of their new home. People, in general, are more accepting of someone who tries to be like themselves.
I am living expatriate in another country and by working at living as they do here and by working hard at learning their language and customs I am being accepted.
8
tmarie
As a Canadian, I HATE when Canadians are smug about their country. This is nothing but a smug article. Canada doesn't have the history that European does. Make no mistake, if Canada did, they'd have EXACTLY the same issues. Look at Quebec vs the rest of Canada for a small taste of issues that would be around if we were around the same amount of time.
Racism exists in Canada. The thing is, it is very well hidden in case the PC police catch you and burn you at the stake.
I will say, with regards to Canadians being open-minded, we have to be. ALL of our families are immigrant families except for the first nations. Doesn't matter our race, our creed, our religion... Someone somewhere in our family landed in Canada within the last 150 years and I would actually be more willing to state that most Canadian families have at least one first generation Canadian in their family via marriage.
Europe has a serious problem with racism. No one will disagree with that but what country in this world doesn't?
4
tmarie
On average, I tend to think that English-speaking countries (Australia, US, Canada) etc are less racist, smug, etc (yes, even the US). They are just not very pretentious. Less smug? I think Canada wins the award for "Most smug country". This article is a fine example. Oz isn't racist? God lord, have you been there?? Canada IS less racist but it is racist and I gave examples above as to why isn't isn't as bad as other places.
2
kurisupisu
I suggest the author look a little harder at the difference between being a migrant and naturalization Even so there plenty of countries in Europe where immigrants are welcomed. The UK has a long history of such a policy and the people living in the UK come ffrom all over the earth!
2
tmarie
The UK has a long history of such a policy and the people living in the UK come ffrom all over the earth!
And the UK right now has some very serious issues with racism.
8
Jotter Verhaeghe
Is this article a joke? I find it horrible that she can call a whole continent racist with a straight face.
11
state broken people
how can the author write about europe's problem with racism when the same canadian authorities that let her family in back in 1943 denied entry to tens of thousands of jews trying to flee hitler's germany. surely, as an expert on this issue she must be aware that the wartime pm mackenzie king , longest-serving pm in canadian history, was an anti-semite who openly praised hitler. she should get to educating her compatriots before lecturing the rest of the world.
11
Johannes Weber
The article is clearly written by a completely clueless person. Racism exists everywhere, but I do not see how it should be stronger or weaker in Europe than anywhere else. Racism is independent of culture, education and income. And the tone of the article is close to racist.
I wonder how I (as a German) will recognise an immigrant? Most immigration (and emigration) in Europe happens between different countries of the European Union. Can I discriminate against French or Polish people coming to Germany, because I can actually find out whether they immigrated just recently and not a few decades or centuries ago? No!!!
Furthermore, Euopean history is full of immigration. Some countries even shifted place. Western Poland of nowadays had once been Eastern Germany. Are people whose families originate from there immigrants in Germany, since they hail from nowadays Poland? If I live in the Rhine valley, did my ancestors suddenly become immigrants because their homeland had turned from French to German or from German to French?
Discrimination in Europe happens mainly due to different cultures, not due to different racial backgrounds (since we are all mixed). Culture is adopted by immigrants in a few generations' time. Since the original Canadian cultures have been exterminated or confined to reservations, there is no clear distinction between so-called "old Canadian" and immigrant cultures anymore. Comparing discrimination around the world is like comparing apples and pears.
7
Kabukilover
The writer says nothing about the very strict laws against hate speech in European countries, including those she singled out for abuse. France, has fined Brigitte Bardot heavily for anti-Muslim remarks that would have been moderate coming the mouth of Ann Coulter. Germany, Austria and France have made Holocaust denial a crime. France recently made denying Turkish anti-Armenian genocide a crime, The Council of Europe is very much concerned with racism. There is racism in Europe but is a also powerful anti-racism at work.
4
SuperLib
Talking about European racism is fair game, just as it is with any country, but the writer undercuts her own point when she compares it to her country, with her country coming out on top. No one wants to be talked to that way. She may very well be right but the way she is delivering her message is counterproductive.
7
johninnaha
Where does that piece of insanity come from?
This shows so little understanding of the situation, I find it difficult to believe someone actually wrote this. What on Earth is she talking about?
This lady has a severe problem confusing reality and imagination.
4
Pukey2
My eyes were already rolling when I read the first sentence:
I wonder, has the author really been to France or the UK? Why is it that I know so many BRITISH people whose parents came from India, Hong Kong, Pakistan, etc. Eastern Europe may be a different story altogether, but western Europe is no more racist than North America, in my opinion. They're accepted many immigrants which is all the more astonishing given the size of western Europe.
I hear there's a lot of hate towards Patrick Chan from his fellow Canadians. Surely not!
1
Lowly
I read the first paragraph, and then skipped to the comments. That's where the action's at, at JT!
2¢ frya, Yeah, ok, war, ok, recently too and horribly racist (Balkans). But those things always strike me as a few intense individuals get some power and start doing things that a, scare ppl and b, cause them to lash back. But not everyone's actual feeling about things.
So, yeah it happens, but is everybody racist, viewing things as race and hating their neighbors in such a way? Not the Europe I went to. I would describe it as more a family (which it is). (And we all know family rivalry and feuding can be the biggest...)
2
Mark Bellis
4
jamurai
This article is mind-boggling in its stupidity.
-1
nihoncritic
While it is fair to disagree with this article, I don't see anything wrong about the author expressing his opinion. Europe and America have a very large number of racists despite laws which attempt to entitled all groups of people of different ethnicity and religion to security and happiness. However, times have changed. When there is a lack of financial security, easily the convenient scapegoats are immigrants and those perceived to be "not a part of their original nationality." Japan for example may have a great number of racists, to which many of you gleefully criticize, but all it takes is a quick glance home to find undesirable ugliness. There really is not bastion of safety and tolerance because those two factors are contingent on the presence of economic and social security, factors which are lacking in a world which is spiraling out of control.
-2
tmarie
The article is clearly written by a completely clueless person.
YOu can bash her opinions but you really can't bash her and call her clueless. She's smug, not clueless. She's a very well educated women who has done a lot in terms of international relations.
**The writer says nothing about the very strict laws against hate speech in European countries, including those she singled out for abuse. France, has fined Brigitte Bardot heavily for anti-Muslim remarks that would have been moderate coming the mouth of Ann Coulter. **
Do you have any idea how strict Canada is on this? Indeed, France and many European countries are as well but wow, the PC police in Canada are among the strictest I have ever heard of/seen. And regardless, you can't deny that racism is an issue in France - and anti-Muslim feelings are running at a concerning rate.
Do we really need to debate which country is better/worse when it comes to racism? Racism is a problem regardless of who is worse, who is better. Do away with it and let's move on. Shame this women is attacking other countries instead of working on solving issues in Canada.
You also might like to read about Ann and Canada. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anncoulter#2010Canadianuniversitytour
-1
bass4funk
As an American, being from a multicultural that is very diverse, but far from perfect, having been to 38 states, I saw pretty much every ethnic group you can think of. Been to Canada numerous of times, nice country, I don't know if I agree that Canada is THE utopian Mecca for racial diversity. I think in general the US, Canada and Australia have been more open to other races and have embraced them more successfully than Western Europe and I don't want to even start on Eastern Europe. Having said that, All 3 countries have had problems with race, but generally they have done a much better job at integrating. I don't see Germany, France, Sweden etc or even the UK electing a Black or an Asian PM/President anytime in the near future.
@nihoncritic
100% agreed.
It is very sad that we still have to deal with racism in this day and age, but that is the reality we live in.
2
Suginamiguy
On average, I tend to think that English-speaking countries (Australia, US, Canada) etc are less racist, smug, etc (yes, even the US). They are just not very pretentious.
I tend to agree. Being relatively open countries, their problems are more visible which I think is a really good thing. They know they have problems and are working towards solving them. But because they have allowed their problems to be highly visible, many others think they are very racsist, which is not the case. It is far better to get these problems out in the open, rather than sweep it under the carpet and pretend the problems don`t exist.
-2
candyapple
Having no "CIVIL RIGHTS" when you are ILLEGALLY in a country other then your own is justified! Why should this woman not have to go through the legal process like other people who have done the right thing?
Thats the problem in the USA and other sinking economys. You have so many illegals getting money from the goverments that are not entitled that its draining their economies but who cares? The only things that matter are VOTES, even though they should not be voting they do and it counts!
These days if you do not agree with a person of color or country you are considered racist which is absurd! The word Racism has been taken out of context and its true meaning twisted and skewed with so much now that it means nothing anymore. What is really troubling is when people come into a new country and try to instill their beliefs and their rituals as law, not understanding that they can practice their beliefs in their own home just do not push it down any countrys throat. If people want to practice your belief they will come to your home or move to the country that lives like this.
In a perfect world all countries would hold hands and be singing" Kumbaya"! This will not happen, so those who have this dream, get over it and move on.
1
thywillbedone
Wow, I thought Canadians only waved their index finger of self righteousness at Americans. Now, I see Canada is the model of moral superiority for Europe to follow too. I learned something today.
2
Thunderbird2
I doubt very much you would find any country free of racism. There is also religious hatred throughout the globe, and in Africa you have the tribal hatred.
When you really think about it, we're all immigrants. Ever since we moved out of Africa humans have migrated, settled in new places and called them home. Homo Sapiens may even have killed off the Neanderthals over racism, who knows.
-4
Mocheake
Seems some people on this site are a little peeved because someone told them something they didn't want to hear or were trying to ignore.
12
Feihu
This article by the "Anglo-Canadian" Ms Clarkson is without a doubt, the single most blatant example of national chauvinism I have ever seen in print. To the point that it would be comical if it weren't so sad. I think that Ms. Clarkson has either gone totally senile or is still mired in a WWII mentality. The world today is different Ms. Clarkson, very different.
I can tell you from my own experience that the assumptions of Ms C. are not nearly as correct nor has honest as Ms. Clarkson obviously wants us to belief. I spent the decade of the 1960's in Japan. It was at a time during my life when one finds romance, love and the desire to have a family. I married a truly wonderful person who just happened to be Japanese. We were a closer family than normal and I remained married until 2008 when illness took my wife. That covers the positives of inter-cultural marriage from my perspective.
We saw at that time if we were to raise a family in Japan it would have been much more difficult for our children that it would be today. The "hapa" war babies were starting to become teenagers and it was obvious that they were in for some years of tough times. The situation in the U.S. didn't look much better for Asians and less so for hapa children. So we decided on Europe. Passing through about seven European nations we were greeted with kindness and respect. We looked at the country of my parents and decided against it. So in the end we chose Spain.
During all the years we lived there (more than a decade) we were never ever treated with disrespect neither because of ethnicity nor as an inter-cultural family. If anything the opposite. We were seen as a couple who proved that the world is divided horizontally and not vertically by race, ethnicity and other forms of social nonsense.
Very often it was brought to our attention by friends and neighbors that while my wife and I may have been foreigners ot children, who do not have any Spanish "blood" that Ms. Clarkson seems to think is so important to Europeans, those children were deemed Spanish by culture, language and custom. NOT as Ms. Clarkson insists, by BLOOD. But that was not only my family but many others who had come to Spain from various other nations. The Portuguese were just as understanding. However with the mass migrations across Africa, the Middle East and with in Europe itself, things are not the same as they were 40 years ago. But Ms Clarkson's diatribe is simply hateful and false for the most part.
I wonder a few things. How did she get to represent the Canadian people on an international level with that type of xenophobic mentality? Oh, and why is she even in Japan (i only assume she is). You'd think that if she wanted to live in an "insular" country she would have returned to her native Britain. From what this woman says she must be about my age. How did she survive all that time with so much hatred in her heart. Maybe she is living proof of the old Spanish adage, "Mala yerba nunca muere."... "Useless weeds never die."
3
SuperLib
Yeah, I picked up on that myself, but didn't mention it the first time. She talks about an "us vs. them" mentality in Europe but I'm wondering if she would apply the same theory to Canadians when they deal with Americans. Overall the Canadians I've met have been very polite and respectful of other cultures, with the one obvious exception. They have a unique position since most people don't mind a good rant about the US and that's where they spend most of their time, so in a way they kind of get a free pass. Mentally, I think they are comfortable giving themselves a free pass as well. I'm curious as to what the writer would say about this.
-6
yyj72
The article has a smug tone. So what? Clarkson's point is correct: EUROPEAN COUNTRIES' IMMIGRATION POLICIES ARE A FAILURE BECAUSE THEY ARE TAINTED BY, AND FORMULATED UPON, NATIONALIST AND RACIST MENTALITIES. Canada, the US and Australia used to be no different, but we have more experience with immigration in its modern form, and we came to realize that the fact is, you can't allow immigration without embracing multi-culturalism, otherwise all you end up with is an under-class of disenfranchised and pissed off migrant workers and their descendents, which creates more problems than it solves.
1
bass4funk
I guess, I did too.
@Thunderbird2
Very interesting point. Never thought about that, you could be right.
@Superlib
Never had any problems with Canadians, I think they have more of an issue with us, than we with them. I don't know why, but it's all good. They make fun of us, we make fun of them, all part of the game. I just chuckle when I hear Canadians trying to explain to Japanese or get so bent out of shape when they call them American. Not the end of the world. But back to racism, even among American Blacks and Africans there is quite a bit of racism. Met many Africans that work here in Japan and claim they were born in Chicago and look at them as if they have a mega-screw loose. They often try to pass themselves off as something they are not and look down on American Blacks. It's a vicious cycle. I'm sure everyone can give tons of examples. But the only thing that racism does is keeping society from progressing, as a matter of fact, one could say it's hindering the advancement in many ways.
2
Dutchduck
Put 16 million Canadians in a country the size of Kyushu, name it Canada 2.0, now influx that country with another million immigrants, with their own norms and values and let`s see what happens.....
0
Dutchduck
Well written, well thought out...uhum ,these countries are the poster children of modern immigration...pity though that immigration and integration are measured differently.....
0
whiskeysour
Adrienne Clarkson Canada has alot of discrimination especially Vancouver.
I don't know here you get your information but Europe does have racist problems especially the U.K.
But Vancouver is not the Oasis of all colors united. Hahaha !!! It's the opposite.
Check your facts honey !!!!
4
y3chome
Cat5 I guess the rioting after Ice-Hockey matches in Canada doesnt count?
8
y3chome
The title of this article and the opening paragraph simply shocked me; sounds like something a middle-school kid might write - and at least they could be forgiven for being so wrong and ignorant. Yes Europe has had hundreds of years of wars ; as do most regions with a history of over 300yrs, nothing strange about that. The horrible genralisation made by the writer might have more clout if all of the wars were based on RACE in the first place.... as this wouldnt explain wars between eng/france/germ/poland/austria/russia etc. There are far deeper socio-political factors involved in Europes wars. Actually the article is just so wrong on so many levels im just going to give up now.
3
y3chome
And the Author forgets that there is now free movement of labour within the European Union.... how many countries is that? And how many countries have free movement to go and work in Canada? none?
1
y3chome
and if anything i think that countries such as the UK may even be TOO open to immigration.
4
Christina O'Neill
Canada is mainly inhabited by European migrants,
3
GW
Haha I am heading home in the near future to get my SMUG levels raised some, watch out for when I get back, you have been warned!
5
thywillbedone
Up until the 1970s, Canada carried out government sanctioned programs to eradicate Native North American cultures in Canada through forced assimilation of children, forced deprivation of native cultural practices, and worse if reports are accurate. It was to the extent that serious international jurists regarded the Canadian Government policies as acts of genocide under the UN definition. If you don't believe me, research it. Canada certainly welcomed moneyed, politically connected Asian immigrants from the commonwealth but reviled its poor un-Christian aboriginals.
This was during a period when Ms. Clarkson grew up and thrived in Canada. It would have been decent and responsible of her to mention this repugnant episode of anti-Native ethnic cleansing in her glowing description of Canadian history and racial harmony, instead of the ridiculously sanitized and heartlessly dismissive admission to "shameful lapses".
I am probably a bit taller than Ms. Clarkson, but somehow I feel like I am looking up her nasal cavity as I read her words.
2
PeaceWarrior
I can tell that she didn't grow up in Eastern Quebec... She'd sing a different tune if she had!
1
thywillbedone
tmarie: Bless you. You have your work cut out for you. My very first experience with a Canadian-in-Japan was 11 years ago after recently arriving here. I was a new substitute teacher at a language school, and I was verbally sucker punched with an anti-America rant by a young Canadian nationalist once he found out I was from the US. His Canadian friends joined in. It forever colored my impression of expat-Canadians, though I know there are decent folks like you out there. I had never encountered such unprovoked viciousness from Canadians in Canada or the US.
Honestly, I was shaken by the experience. I wrote to the manager of the website United North America (Canadian site) and asked about this. His reply was to apologize, and for me to try and understand that is was probably more characteristic of young male Canadians English teachers in Asian countries for reasons I will not list here because they were somewhat un-kind, and I think the web master was honestly embarrassed by the behavior of his countrymen.
Anyway, more Canadians need to wake up to the fact that they are the butt of jokes because of nationalistic self righteousness, and try to shut up people like Ms. Clarkson ASAP regarding her Europe-is-racist-Canada-is-paradise rambling, because now Europeans will begin rolling their eyes too when Canadian tell them how Europe is a worse place than Canada.
If I hear that "Canada is a country of Peace Keeper" one more time, my head will explode.
4
PeaceWarrior
Canada is a country of Peace Keepers... are you there thywillbedone? ;-))
This Canadian has no problem telling you that there are many a..holes in Canada, you were just unlucky to get a boatload of them at one time. We're not all like that, promise!
0
yyj72
America broke the mold on the meaning of citizenship in the 18th century, with ideas that were considered radical at the time: democracy, separation of church and state, universal primary education, etc. Oh there was African slavery in the US, but let's remember that African slavery was introduced to the New World by Europeans and inherited by their descendents, who ultimately rejected it. America was populated by the unwanted of Europe, and those cast-offs right up and flipped it back on them, becoming the most successful, powerful, prosperous and culturally dominant civilization in the history of humanity, easily eclipsing the tired monarchies and jackbooted autocrats of the Old World. Most European conservative elites (who are by and large still the ones making government policy on things like immigration and citizenship) still find American society and its cohorts in Canada, Australia, and NZ, anaethema and vulgar. But they are now facing the stark choice: accept immigrants and multiculturalism under a "We the People" system of government; or not, and see where it leads (see Anders Breivik for a fine example of one possible outcome).
1
thywillbedone
PeaceWarrior: There, you did it. My head exploded.
Yes, I know this is true. Actually, I am a "Canadaphile" to a large extent, fascinated by her history, political system, and otherwise fine culture and people. Thanks for the support.
0
yyj72
@tmaire: smugness is a personal trait, not a national one.
@thywillbedone: (see above), it therefore stands to reason that for every smug Canadian, there are 10 smug Americans, given the two countries' populations.
I will suggest, though, that the way smug people choose to express themselves can be rooted in their national backgrounds and sense of identity. Both of you have encountered one way that a smug Canadian may choose to do so, but there are most certainly other examples from every other nationality.
1
thywillbedone
yyj72:
Yes, you are absolutely correct, and I would have slammed an American writer 100x harder for writing such absurdities, and felt a writhing shame of association.
Ms. Clarkson is an esteemed person in Canada who wrote an incredibly inarticulate, shallow essay. Canadians need to distance themselves from it, and recognize how that kind of dribble from their political and cultural elite contributes to their reputation for being annoyingly self-righteous. This article is a glowing example of the worst of this stereotype. Discerning Canadians are cringing with embarrassment, and you can see from some of the comments.
1
Kanade
There's racism everywhere you look, degree is the only thing that's different.
This article has stated some fair points but it has also stated some unfair points. This article seems to be rather biased, especially seeing that the author has lived almost her whole live in Canada.
Having been to a huge number of countries, I've got to admit that in Europe racism is more highlighted than in English-speaking countries.
Someone here said that France is not racist, since there are tons of black people there, but that doesn't make the country itself any less racist, does it? My friend who was borin in a French colony but has lived his whole life in France and has a Ph.D. in IT isn't able to find work, because of his appearance which led him to depression and now he doesn't know what to do.
When I wen to Paris with a friend from Germany, they refused to serve my friend at one restaurant, saying something bad about Germany which actually amazed me (I know it's one in a million occurence though).
The French pretend they speak no English, they speak only French whenever you try to speak to them most of the time, how is that not racist? I think France is one of the most racist countries in Europe, and I know a huge bunch of foreigners that would agree with me. Probably due to its population diversity, the French have become like that.
Canada also has its own ups and downs. Sometimes it welcomes immigrants, sometimes it doesn't. The same goes for the US. The UK and Australia are a lot tighter about this, but they're not racist once you're in their country at all.
I think it's very difficult to form a reasonable opinion on racism due to everyone having had faced that at one point in their lives. I'm not a native English speaker, nor I am black or anything (just so you know). Probably that's why I can more or less look at the situation from the side. Whichever country I came to there would be its own ups and downs, it's what you'd call adaptation, I guess. For some people it's more difficult, for some it's impossible, for some there are specific rules that wouldn't allow them to.
2
aeho11
Having read and reread this article, I have come to the conclusion that the title just doesn't match the text -- it should've been something along the lines of "Oh, Canada, My Canada - The world's only land of freedom and superiority."
My personal problem with this piece is that it lacks any concrete examples (ok, there was one, a Portuguese housekeeper in France). If you are to label a whole continent racist, it's good to back up your opinion with some examples. Instead, the writer goes on bragging about how Canada is great. While it is true that many countries in Europe have issues with racism (gypsies to name the least), it just strikes me extremely unprofessional to speak against a whole continent without offering any clear examples. Another issue is that quite often when non-Europeans say Europe they think Germany, Italy, Spain, France and few others. Yet, this continent has some 50 countries there and each one is different. You can't speak about Europe and ignore that. I am surprised that an intelligent lady like Ms. Clarkson could write such a narrow-minded article. It's a shame for journalism in general -- because in journalism you need FACTS, not only opinion. I find it particularly striking that Ms. Clarkson has chosen to praise her own country at the expense of an entire continent she seems to know very little of.
-2
tmarie
**Anyway, more Canadians need to wake up to the fact that they are the butt of jokes because of nationalistic self righteousness, and try to shut up people like Ms. Clarkson ASAP regarding her Europe-is-racist-Canada-is-paradise rambling, because now Europeans will begin rolling their eyes too when Canadian tell them how Europe is a worse place than Canada.
If I hear that "Canada is a country of Peace Keeper" one more time, my head will explode.**
Well traveled ones are. It is the annoying flag on backpack ones... I am sorry you've had to deal with it. I personally feel sorry for Americans because you guys all get tarred and feathered even before opening your mouths. That being said, I have seen some Americans having a go with the whole "51 state" crap and well... It doesn't go over well - just like it doesn't go over well with Americans and comments about everyone owning a gun. Both sides can be jerks.
Peacekeeping nation... well, we have to be! We can't defend ourselves! ;)
**@tmaire: smugness is a personal trait, not a national one.
@thywillbedone: (see above), it therefore stands to reason that for every smug Canadian, there are 10 smug Americans, given the two countries' populations.**
Oh no, someone has a flag on their backpack!
Also, seeing at how the US population is about 10 times larger, your "insult" wasn't really an insult, more a factor. But please, go on with you smug self.
0
thywillbedone
tmarie: >That being said, I have seen some Americans having a go with the whole "51 state" crap and well... It doesn't go over well - just like it doesn't go over well with Americans and comments about everyone owning a gun. Both sides can be jerks.
Definitely - inexcusable. I think that US citizens in generally really need to appreciate what a great society Canada is, learn more about Canada, and show a little more respect.
0
tmarie
I think the same can be said for Canadians! See, if everyone was like us.... Oh wait, that was smug! ;)
0
Lawrence Gordon
Many of us are tired of being hectored and labeled racist by people like this Adrienne Clarkson. Canada is a fine country, but look at its history. It was peacefully formed as a backwater of the English empire. Its character is mostly British with a little French thrown in for leavening. It has been extremely selective as to whom it lets into its country. It has been protected against foreign enemies by the might of the United States, and it never fought a war, either internally or foreign, that truly forged Canadian as a distinct nationality. Canadians that think they can call anyone racist in good conscience do so only because Canada is practicially the only country existing today that lacks an authentic history of its own.
I have news for you, Andrienne: identification with one's nationality does not a racist make.
-2
tmarie
**and it never fought a war, either internally or foreign, that truly forged Canadian as a distinct nationality. **
Interesting... I bet a whole bunch of European who aren't speaking German right now would disagree with you on this. How about you attack/disagree with the writer as opposed to attacking the country?
I'd also debate the "peacefully formed" comment, the "mostly British" comment and this nice little gem "Canadians that think they can call anyone racist in good conscience do so only because Canada is practicially the only country existing today that lacks an authentic history of its own. " But please, go on. I am sure you could come up with more? Perhaps bash our love of hockey and curling next?
-2
yyj72
My point is, don't let the tone of the Clarkson's article distract you from its purpose. Unfortunately, that seems to be impossible in this forum. Instead of having an informed discussion about immigration and citizenship policies, people here are caught up in mud-slinging about manners and national characteristics - boring! Non sequitor! Lame!
0
yyj72
@tmaire RE:
*@tmaire: smugness is a personal trait, not a national one.
@thywillbedone: (see above), it therefore stands to reason that for every smug Canadian, there are 10 smug Americans, given the two countries' populations.
Oh no, someone has a flag on their backpack!
Also, seeing at how the US population is about 10 times larger, your "insult" wasn't really an insult, more a factor. But please, go on with you smug self.*
Actually, it was *meant * to be a statement of fact, not an insult. But thank you for assuming the worst of me.
1
Feihu
Those who want to can become citizens though the process, depending on the country, may be lengthy. None of my children have Spanish blood but they all have Spanish passports and ID cards by birth-right. Even in the Americas an immigrant does not receive citizenship overnight. It takes several years. Italy has many citizens of foreign origin but the fast track is again birth-right or by having at least one parent or grandparent who was born in Italy. It differs from country to country just as the right to citizenship differs from nation to nation in the "new world".
Another marked difference is that the "New World" countries have been recently (historically speaking) been formed by IMMIGRATION whereas older nations the process was by MIGRATION. They are two distinct forms of population shift.
Another difference between old world nations and new world nations is ethnicity. We never refer to ETHNIC Americans,Brazilians, Australians etc though we do refer to indigenous Americans but that is not the same thing. Why can, for example, Germans be referred to as "ethnic" Germans but Canadians or Australians cannot be referred to as an ethnic entity? That is because those old world countries have over the centuries gone through a process known as "ethnogenesis" and the newer countries are now going thorough that process which will take centuries to complete. In the meantime we will continue to be "hyphenated" people. Like Chinese-Americans. The first label refers to our ethnicity and the second to our nationality.
0
yyj72
Thanks, Feihu. Now we're finally getting somewhere. Why is process so much more arduous and less transparent in Europe? I mean, I understand the emotional connection people feel to their own culture, but why are there so many people in Old World countries who still think that their culture is inviolable, sancrosanct, and immutable? Culture is a constantly changing thing, a dialogue under continuous revision being reborn and reworked as we evolve. Things we used to think were perfectly acceptable (like slavery) we now regard as horrific.
Culture never trumps human rights. Ever.
1
Feihu
Maybe one reasons is that these countries never thought of themselves in terms of immigration until maybe sometime during the 1950's and they are still getting used to it. 60 years. To an America (I don't mean just people from the USA but the Americas) 60 years may seem like a long time but to an old culture it is like a historical minute or an hour. Many still feel that a person of Turkish origin, for example, can never become a German but in the Americas anyone can become a Brazilian or an American or a Canadian etc. Not all people of older cultures can accept that idea. IN East Asia, at least Japan and Korea I think the idea that a Southeast Asian or an African can become a Japanese or a Korean must be more mind boggling to many because they automatically or unconsciously associate race and ethnicity with nationality. Americans (again ALL of America) don't do that.
I agree that culture is constantly changing but this change is very difficult for people anywhere to accept. We don't really like change because we have to keep readjusting to it and we don't want to. Maybe a good example of this is American Jazz music and Americans. Every generation feels that "real" jazz ended with their generation and the new is not jazz. Many my age feel that the golden age of jazz was the 1950's but others will ague that jazz has continued to evolve and and grow and that the jazz of today is just as valid as that of the 50's or the 60's even though it is not as popular as it once was. I am not sure if I am making myself clear here so I better stop before I get too far out.
0
sfjp330
The major cause of inequalities in Europe is the social and economic circumstances. Minority groups generally find it difficult to overcome inequalities in wealth, partly because of racially discriminating actions and policies of their goverment. Compare to Canada, inequalities widen in European systems because of wider economic and social goverment policies plays the important role of racism. Europe's ultimate goal is to produce effective interventions to more harmonious and fair multi-ethnic Europe. However, this is almost impossible in Europe because most people do not want change.
0
yyj72
OK, I gotcha Feihu. It makes sense what you're saying. But it's frustrating to encounter people with this mentality.
Some myths about the New World that need busting:
It was easy for us to become multicultural since we're all from somewhere else anyway.
See: Aztecs, Incas and Mayans, Clovis people, and we are part of what is commonly considered "the West" or "Western Civilization" (which is why the White House has Greek columns on it and Canada's parliament looks like a Gothic cathedral) - we experienced the Renaissance and the Victorian era too, just in a different way.
0
yyj72
Busts:
See: Aztecs, Incas and Mayans, Clovis people, and we are part of what is commonly considered "the West" or "Western Civilization" (which is why the White House has Greek columns on it and Canada's parliament looks like a Gothic cathedral) - we experienced the Renaissance and the Victorian era too, just in a different way.
Jazz. Need I say more?
Civil wars, race riots, Chinese head taxes, Japanese internments and ethnic cleansing of natives...the list goes on...all these feature prominently in our history as evidence of the struggle to live together.
-1
sourpuss
She's generally right. The article is pretty smug, and that's what' turning people off, but overall, she's correct.
The "idea" of immigrants becoming citizens of European countries is much newer. It's based on the individual history of each country, though, and won't be easily overcome by smug opinion pieces such as Clarkson's. Neither will it be overcome by overly liberal immigration policies which antagonize the locals. The only way it will be overcome is with time.
1
japan_cynic
It took me less than 30 seconds of googling to find that German citizenship is easily attained after 8 years of residence.
-4
tmarie
Unfortunately, that seems to be impossible in this forum. Instead of having an informed discussion about immigration and citizenship policies, people here are caught up in mud-slinging about manners and national characteristics - boring! Non sequitor! Lame!
Shall we take a look at YOUR comments? Boring, lame and not addressing the topic at all. Nice try with the "I'm taking the upper road" suggestion.
0
Johannes Weber
If You want to obtain citizenship, You have to integrate into the culture in most European countries. The idea that You should make efforts to learn a national language if You want to obtain citizenship is not very far from being obvious. Thus, integration in English speaking countries is more simple since English is almost trivial for most people with modest levels of education. Go for languages like Chinese, German or Japanese and people really have to invest time and brain to attain fluency - which is the reason many people don't do.
Furthermore, some details about the exemplary Turks in Germany. The majority of Turks in Germany are actually Kurds from rural areas in Anatolia. Due to the remnants of old family bonds and tribalistic aspects of the countryside culture, many Kurdish parents choose partners for their kids from their extended family networks back home, whom these poor children have to marry and live togehter with in Germany. Of course, these new family members don't know the language. In many cases - specifically labelled as "imported brides" - these women are very much confined to their houses and basically not given any opportunity to integrate and learn the language.
The story is completely different with Turks from western Turkey from the cities. Mostly rather well educated, they attain good qualifications and the majority of their second and third generation considers themselves more German than Turkish. By now, the younger generation with migrational background have mostly German passports, dual citizenship (until 18 or so, when they have to choose) and even the parents can obtain German citizenship, if they really desire so. However, the majority of larger ethnic groups often is not very interested.
Furthermore, ethnicity in Europe is just a hollow word. As I have written before, European countries and borders have shifted throughout history quite a lot. There had been extreme amounts of inner-European migration over the years and Europe deals very well with that (in most cases). There is a mainstream European culture, which is based on the Roman and Christian influences, which are central to our culture. Anyone, who doesn't share such background will find life a bit difficult in Europe. Take the Sinti and Roma as an example. Even though they are European by heritage, they were never part of the cultural mainstream and they stayed separated by their own choice. Now right-wing politician abuse them as scapegoats (e.g. in France). If You truly believe in different European ethnicities, then Europe is already multiethnic and multicultural. However, the distribution of origins on both sides of the Atlantic is drastically different.
However, in contrast to the USA, there is (as far as I know) no whatsoever law that keeps naturalised citizens from becoming head of state. That always struck me as a very racist policy. And by the way, bass4funk mentioned that there would be not chance for a black president in Europe. This is an unfair supposition by virtue of numbers. However, Germany started in the recent decade having more and more politicians with migrational background - mostly Turkish, however. But our vice-chancellor is vietnamese by family background.
Thus, the claim that Europe is more racist or the US or Canada is less racist seems to be ridiculous for me.
0
yyj72
@tmarie: all of my comments are focused on either immigration policy in Europe or the differences of perception on the issue between Europe and the Americas as they relate to racism.
0
yyj72
Thank you, Johannes, that was really informative! I had no idea of the difference in circumstances between the Turks vs Kurds in Germany, nor that a naturalized citizen could become head of state in Germany. I'm not sure that I would agree that English is an easy language to learn, but is easier than some. The Government of Canada pays for language and cultural integration lessons for immigrants - are there similar services in Germany, or elsewhere in Europe?
0
Johannes Weber
There are immigration courses for people with migrational background. They cover the language in various levels (starting from complete beginners up to those who have to improve their German for their jobs), but they are not enforced. They also involve courses about the cultural background of Germany and its history, its democratic and social order and so on, which is - admittedly - sometimes difficult to grasp for people without a European background. These courses aren't free of charge, but in cases of economic hardship, the public covers the expenses. Furthermore, these attending these courses shortens the time for naturalisation by one year (from 8 to 7, in special cases even to 6). I believe that most European countries will deal with these issues similarly, but I don't know it for sure. After all, the EU enforces similar standards wherever it can.
0
Triumvere
Some context, please. That provision was included in the US Constitution for the purposes of preventing wealthy and powerful European noblemen from coming to the US and using their influence to install themselves as king. I will agree that its day has long passed, and - being misaligned with the ideals we aspire to - it should be removed. However, "racist" is not a particularly fair characterization.
0
chenn
It is simply Amazing how Squatters in other people's countries can NOW proclaim the dubious call for immigrants to "leave their homeland"!!!! The MOST hilarious IF it wasn't so seriously Demented is europeans referring to THEMSELVES as south "AFRICANS?" HUH??!!! Whilst in sunny europe the same CANNOT be said for "europeanised" Africans!
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