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One in four Americans want their state to secede, but why?

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For the past few weeks, as Scotland debated the wisdom of independence, Reuters has been asking Americans how they would feel about declaring independence today, not from the United Kingdom, but from the mother country they left England to create. The exact wording of the question was, "Do you support or oppose the idea of your state peacefully withdrawing from the United States of America and the federal government?"

It was hard to imagine many people would support secession. Forget the fact that the cautionary lesson of the Civil War is top of mind for many people as we commemorate its 150th anniversary; just in terms of dollars and cents, who in their right minds would give up all the money they've already paid into the Social Security and Medicare systems? Besides, most states get more back from the federal government than they put in.

Then the results came in. You can see them for yourself here, and you can filter them any way you want - by age, region, income, party affiliation, etc. Any way you slice it, the data are startlingly clear: Almost a quarter (24%) of those surveyed said they were strongly or provisionally inclined to leave the United States. And take their states with them. Given the polling sample - about 8,600 people so far - the online survey's credibility interval (which is digital for "margin of error") was only 1.2 percentage points, so there is no question that that is what they said.

Secession got more support from Republicans than Democrats, more from right- than left-leaning independents, more from younger than older people, more from lower- than higher-income brackets, more from high school than college grads. But there was a surprising amount of support in every group and region, especially the Rocky Mountain states, the Southwest and the old Confederacy, but also in places like Illinois and Kansas. And of the people who said they identified with the Tea Party, supporters of secession were actually in the majority, with 53%.

Scottish unionists won by a wider-than-expected 10-percentage-point margin.

The question is, what do results like this mean for the U.S.?

First, it should be acknowledged that intramural conflict has been in character for Americans since the earliest settlements, when Puritan New England faced off against Royalist Virginia in the English Civil War. More than a century later, the Revolutionary War was barely won when the states, never quite friendly, were at each other's throats, and the infant nation came close to being strangled in its crib.

It was in part to avoid the danger that the colonies would break into competing regional confederacies that the founders plotted to hold the Constitutional Convention of 1787. But even when the new Constitution made secession illegal, the impulse to break up stayed strong. Serious state and regional threats of secession flared up in 1799, 1814 and 1828. Fifteen years before 11 Southern states did secede in 1860, sparking the Civil War, William Lloyd Garrison called for the North to secede under the banner of "No Union With Slaveholders."

All told, secessionist feints and follies have produced notional movements for more than a hundred new states and nations in North America, from Absaroka to Yazoo. A book about such causes, "Lost States," manages to be quite amusing.

Followup phone calls with a small, random sample of pro-secession respondents to the Reuters poll, however, suggest that while their wish to leave the union may not be quite what it appears, it is not amusing at all.

Those we spoke to seemed to have answered as they did as a form of protest that was neither red nor blue but a polychromatic riot - against a recovery that has yet to produce jobs, against jobs that don't pay, against mistreatment of veterans, against war, against deficits, against hyper-partisanship, against political corruption, against illegal immigration, against the assault on marriage, against the assault on same-sex marriage, against government in the bedroom, against government in general - the president, Congress, the courts and both political parties.

By the evidence of the poll data as well as these anecdotal conversations, the sense of aggrievement is comprehensive, bipartisan, somewhat incoherent, but deeply felt.

This should be more than disconcerting; it's a situation that could get dangerous. As the Princeton political scientist Mark Beissinger has shown, separatist movements can take hold around contempt for incumbents and the status quo even when protesters have no ideology in common.

The United States hardly seems to be on the verge of fracture, and the small secession movements in a handful of American states today represent a tiny percentage of those polled by Reuters. But any country where 60 million people declare themselves to be sincerely aggrieved - especially one that is fractious by nature - is a country inviting either the sophistry of a demagogue or a serious movement for reform.

© (c) Copyright Thomson Reuters 2014.

©2024 GPlusMedia Inc.

56 Comments
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Because 1 in 4 are nuts? At any rate, we already fought a war about secession. Not gonna happen.

-1 ( +7 / -8 )

The United States is only 200 plus years old from its founding. Add another couple of thousand years, because that's how old most of the European and Asian nations are, and the geographic border lines will certainly change within the continental US. I predict Hawaii will seek independence when the US is no longer any benefit to their islands, Guam included, the Marianas, if they haven't sunk into the Pacific. Texas, Arizona, New Mexico & California back to Mexico, Washington State and other northern borders to Canada, Florida either links up with Germany or France and after that the rest of the continent is up for grabs between China and Russia.

-1 ( +4 / -3 )

The constitution clearly gives the states the right to secede. Yes, there was a war that denied those rights, but the denial of a basic human right (for people to choose their own government) was one aspect of that war that is rarely taught.

The US is young, and borders change all the time. There are few places on earth where the borders are the same as they were 200 years ago, and some of them changed peacefully.

People should always have the right to secede if the wish. If a nation-state doesn't serve the needs of a territory, why should they be forced to stay? Aside from defence, there are few advantages to being part of a massive nation.

0 ( +4 / -4 )

You can see them for yourself where? Theres no link.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

Because 1 in 4 are nuts?

I think its more like their public school brainwashing didn't quite take. For example, most Americans believe the American Civil War was fought to end slavery. No. It was fought to prevent the Confederate States from leaving the Union. Trying to end slavery by Congress was just the most major reason why the Confederates wanted to leave. In no way do I support slavery, but it was their inherent right to leave if they wanted, just as inherent a right as the colonies had to leave Britain. Why can't Americans see the disparity? 12 years and more of public school brainwashing.

So when people talk of secession, the typical American gut response is, they must be nuts. No they aren't. They are no more nuts than the Scots or the Quebecois or the people of Crimea.

The sad thing is that, despite how the article puts it in a positive light, its seems most of the actual reason for people wanting to leave the Union are just as negative as wanting to continue slavery. Lots of these people want throw basic rights under the bus so they can expel illegals with greater frequency, oppress homosexuals, execute "pedophiles" and other "deviants", enforce backward religious laws, have complete gun toting freedom, pay less tax, not have to look at a Black president ever again, and stuff like that. Now those secessionists are nuts and also greedy and selfish. But I will end by saying that the U.S. government has none of my love.

-1 ( +4 / -5 )

The same reason Scotland should secede from London.

Look at the wealth map for USA. Notice the high concentration of wealth around Washington DC?

A seceding state keeps that federal money for itself, and gets an instant peace dividend. Who's going to attack an independent Arkansas?

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_9ks36c549BI/TQpmvRkZ7eI/AAAAAAAAByo/favSnEERB98/s1600/median-Household-income.png

2 ( +5 / -3 )

the online survey’s credibility interval (which is digital for “margin of error”) was only 1.2 percentage points, so there is no question that that is what they said.

Online surveys have no credibility - e.g., never has an serious election poll been conducted online. If this is an opinion piece wanting to talk about secession, fine - but trying to claim that this is an accurate poll is pure fiction.

1 ( +4 / -3 )

commanteer: The constitution clearly gives the states the right to secede.

?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Texas_v._White

... was a significant case argued before the United States Supreme Court in 1869. ..., the court further held that the Constitution did not permit states to unilaterally secede from the United States, and that the ordinances of secession, and all the acts of the legislatures within seceding states intended to give effect to such ordinances, were "absolutely null".[2]

0 ( +2 / -2 )

Give them Texas and Florida, and send all the secessionists to those two states.

The US would be better off without them (both the secessionists and the two states), and they can be happy in their vehemence in their new country.

4 ( +6 / -2 )

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/mood_of_america/congressional_performance

A new Rasmussen Reports national telephone survey finds that just six percent (6%) of Likely U.S. Voters think Congress is doing a good or excellent job, unchanged from a month ago. Sixty-five percent (65%) rate its performance as poor. (To see survey question wording, click here.)

1 ( +1 / -0 )

1 in 4 want to secede because the U.S is too heavily taxed and too heavily regulated. They are sick and tired of an ever expanding growth of the federal Govt. There are no other answers to this question. This is not like in other parts in the world like in Crimea or Scotland, where there are a nostalgic feeling for what was once an independent country or part of another more powerful country as is the case in Crimea. Or how the 4 surround provinces of mainland China don't see themselves as a part of China, such as in Tibet.

Since none of these explanations can be rationally given to 1 in 4 Americans, critics whom don't understand what's going on are left with only 3 errors. 1)They are "nuts" 2) They are "racist" 3) both. Of course painting 1 in 4 Americans of 312,000,000 is obviously absurd, but those critics don't see this.

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

They are like the kids who want to move out until they realize they're going to have to support themselves completely on their own.

5 ( +6 / -1 )

I say if they want to leave, let them go and good riddance. Most of the whine is from the ones who do very little for the Union but expect a lot. Do another survey and find out who collects the most. I bet a lot of Tea Party types who whine about the government are doing a lot of collecting from it. I went ahead and checked it: http://blogs.wsj.com/economics/2014/03/27/which-states-take-the-most-from-the-u-s-government/

2 ( +2 / -0 )

@ Turbostat

The constitution may not give the right to secede, but the Declaration of independence does.

Declaration of Independence

Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.

and

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness - That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness.

In all the U.S is a voluntary union. All 50 state chose freely to join it, as opposed to at gun point. Therefore they must also retain the right to secede, else it's an involuntary union.

4 ( +6 / -2 )

Take a moment to savor the irony of Republican support for secession.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

Those we spoke to seemed to have answered as they did as a form of protest that was neither red nor blue but a polychromatic riot - against a recovery that has yet to produce jobs,

If this is true then most people didn't read the question about secession, but rather do you like the current federal government. And as the survey offers no third option (such as support for greater independence of states) if you want to lodge any kind of show of protest you have to say you support the most extreme option, secession. I also suspect people tend to be more inclined to vote for extreme options in these kinds of abstract questions, which are divorced from any kind of practicality.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

That would be great. All the Blue states would turn eventually into 3 world status, California and New York might do well as long as the entertainment industry thrives.

-6 ( +2 / -9 )

Whatever it might say on a piece of paper somewhere, individual US states will never be allowed to become independent. They won't even be allowed a referendum. The federal government will not permit it, and they are the ones controlling the military.

3 ( +3 / -0 )

Any state that seriously tries to become independent would meet the same fate as a small shop owner who decides to stop paying 'projection" money. His shop will be burned to the ground. Much like the South was burned to the ground after their failed exit from the American Empire.

The only reason Scots voted AGAINST independence is because too many old people were getting too much free stuff (social safety net) from the government that they didn't want to give up.

This is ONE of the reasons why modern governments are MORE IN DEBT than they've ever been.

The FSA (free s*** army) caused the collapse of the Roman Empire and it will also collapse Western Civilization eventually.

The good thing about having a large FSA army within your borders is you never have to worry too much about secession. But you DO have to worry about going broke and the wheels finally coming off your ponzi con.

2 ( +3 / -1 )

well thank god for all that military training and hardware the police have, and the convenient forgetfulness of the need for search warrants when performing mass searches in neighborhoods.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Alot of these secessionists only feel this way because Obama is in office, no one is actually serious about secession like Quebec or Scotland, it's all just a phase that has no real meaning, alot of people who want to secede are just unbelievably spoiled and don't see how good they have it in America.

Secession SHOULD be about whether or not a state would be much better off independent rather than a means of spiting the current holder of the office, and I would assume 1 in 4 would support secession, but just on a different side if Ted Cruz or whoever becomes president in 2016, Americans will never secede because they aren't serious about it, it's just fake and false hatred, if you want to fix government, then fix it, but secession is just a child's reaction

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Why.... because they really don't even take the idea (other than maybe Texas) seriously.... so they might on a whim when asked say 'yes', they favor secession. I have heard... about maybe 5 times in my life, someone jokingly broach the subject of secession.... but I've never actually heard anybody seriously talk about it. It is something the vast majority of Americans never even think about. Why don't they ask the Japanese people a meaningful question... like do you feel Japan should stop Whaling? Why haven't we read any polls on serious subjects in Japan?

0 ( +0 / -0 )

The question is, what do results like this mean for the U.S.?

That a significant number of Americans being at least open to the idea of succession is more a reflection of the frustration of living under a federal government that has expanded rapidly and generated a commensurate level of distrust and alienation. America is a rather large nation with many different points of view. Under Obama the federal government has sought control over more and more aspects of peoples lives. Obama's centralized governing philosophy limits the choices available to citizens leading to resentment and division.

The Founders original idea of Federalism whereby governing decisions are pushed down to the lowest possible level of government has largely been degraded to mere formality. To entertain the idea of succession is an attempt to regain that power back.

For example, most Americans believe the American Civil War was fought to end slavery.

The US Civil War was fought over preservation of the Union. But the fact is slavery was the issue that cause the pro-slavery states to seek a separate Confederation of like-minded states. The issue came to a head when it did because of the slave states desire to maintain a balance when admitting new states carved out of the newly settled West. Once they saw it likely that the balance would be offset in favor of the free states, the pro-slavery states saw the writing on the wall and decided to split from the Union. Lincoln then had to decide if he would allow the succession and allow slavery to continue in the South; or fight to preserve the Union and end slavery.

Slavery is undoubtedly the issue that caused the US Civil War. Slavery was an abomination and the major unresolved issue dating back to America's founding.

In today's America slavery is of course not the great issue that divides the people. Now it truly is states rights or the idea of Federalism that is the great dividing line.

-2 ( +1 / -3 )

I dont see seccession in the states ever happening. It was tried once before, but failed. Once a state secceeds, its responsible for its own defense, currency etc. Going at it alone would never work. As for TX, AZ etc going back to Mexico; I cant see it. Mexico will continue to fall apart and those states will be filled with their immigrants. The states will gradually have to become more progressive and liberal. Its the ones who want no change to the status quo who support seccession. The US has too many who want to do it harm, this keeps them united against that front. Agreed, there are many who would love to do a land grab and get pay back, but that in itself keeps the US united.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

@AiserX

Declaration of Independence is not the Constitution, has different function.

Joining a union voluntarily doesn't necessarily mean leaving the union has to be permitted. Enlisting in military is an example of that.

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

Joining a union voluntarily doesn't necessarily mean leaving the union has to be permitted.

@turbotsat Yes, its completely true that some people get into unions with near-sighted, selfish, inconsistent, ill intentioned, hypocritical, anti-freedom jerks. I don't think anyone can deny that.

Whats the difference between a wife beater and a denier of self determination? Well, the wife beater can usually see there is little benefit to killing the partner!

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

There is nothing united about the united states. There is so much diversity now that It has created no sense of a unified country where for example people in california, texas and florida care about a unified country. The country has so many internal problems that many people probably feel that dividing up the USA into separate countries that can govern and solve problems in real time makes much more sense than fifty independent states which sometimes/many times don't even share common laws, tax bases or population demographics. America was once a country that attracted immigrants from mostly europe seeking the american dream but that dream is long gone and each day they are living through a wide awake nightmare. Immigrants used to embrace what was at one time an american way of life, almost a culture, but now they come and don't even try to assimilate because there is no american culture to connect to or join. All great societies rose and fell, the USA rose rapidly and fell just a quickly into a grand canyon of disarray. The party has been over for a while now and the vast majority of americans haven't sobered up to that fact. Flash forward a thousand years and the usa won't even take up a paragraph in a world history book. The constitution although modified/addef to along the way was written by a bunch of white men primarily with ancestry rooted in great britain but the fabric of today's USA does not bear any resemblance to those demographics. I for one would favor seeing a smaller group of separate countries formed from the fifty current states.

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

Whatever it might say on a piece of paper somewhere, individual US states will never be allowed to become independent. They won't even be allowed a referendum. The federal government will not permit it, and they are the ones controlling the military.

Scrote got it right. Anyone that thinks they have a chance in hell of seceding just doesn't know the history of the Civil War. America may seem weak internationally, but we spend more on defense than the next few countries combined. You think the governor of Texas has access to nuclear weapons codes? Don't make me laugh. And it is just as well, too, as someone mentioned, we got the Chinese and the Russkies to worry about and that requires more of a united front than the United Nations can provide.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

Actually many Red States that collect more money than they take in...Mississippi, Lousiana, Arkansas, Kentucky etc. would be more likely to approach third world status, than Blue States like Massachusetts, Minnesota, Washington, etc.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

High support among conservatives and right wing for breaking away. Not surprising.

The right wing has become anti-patriotic, praising ex-KGB agent Putin, hurling one insult after another against the White House and other national institutions, and sympathizing with subversive movements.

America's true patriots these days are liberals living in the blue states like California and New York.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

Since the late 1980s, we here in California have paid in to the federal government more than half a TRILLION dollars more than what we have gotten back from the federal government.

As a rule, most blue states pay more to the central government than what they get back, and most red states get more back than what they pay in. While I don't think independence from the red states is likely to happen, the thought of all that money staying here, and being made available to make California an even more desirable place than it already is, is a tempting thought.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

By contrast, a majority of Puerto Ricans want to join the USA as a state, but must remain a colony.

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

About PUERTO RICO, that is NOT true, Puerto Rico is a COMMON WEALTH just like GUAM, USA, oh PUERTO RICO, USA. Both Puerto Ricans and Guamanians are US CITIZENS but although they can VOTE for a common wealth governor they can NOT vote for the PRESIDENT of the US nor become a president of the USA if they were born on those common wealth territories. However, if Puerto Ricans are born on the mainland or in HAWAII, well they are eligible to be 100% CITIZENS, you know, JUST LIKE MR. OBAMA! Now,the question is, how many REPUBLICANS would like to have 4 or 5 million new LATINO DEMOCRATS ready to vote for the NEXT president of the USA?? So this is one reason the REPUBLICANS try to bribe Puerto Rico into keeping its COMMON WAELTH status and not the US 51st STATE after Hawaii status.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

But any country where 60 million people declare themselves to be sincerely aggrieved - especially one that is fractious by nature - is a country inviting either the sophistry of a demagogue or a serious movement for reform.

At this point, I tend to favor the rise of a demagogue. It's been over 25 years now since Frank Zappa (on Crossfire) warned that America is headed "right down the pipe" to a fascist theocracy. I don't see many indications that lead me to believe that's not where we are headed.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

The right wing has become anti-patriotic, praising ex-KGB agent Putin, hurling one insult after another against the White House and other national institutions, and sympathizing with subversive movements.

On the contrary, the Right has been warning Left wingers about Russia. Remember Romney's warning during the 2012 presidential debate? Obama and the Left wing press made fun of his concerns while Hillary pursued the failed reset.

America's true patriots these days are liberals living in the blue states like California and New York.

The blue states are less interested in what they can do for their country, but much more interested in what their country can do for them. America was founded because of an oppressive centralized government. The Left supports oppressive centralized government. Very un-American.

The US is now fairly evenly divided among those that believe in the American ideal of individual freedom (ie. Patriots) and those in the blue states that are protective of America's now strong centralized government (ie. Loyalists). America has evolved into an essentially Socialist nation. The focus is on government control from the top down through regulation and bureaucratic rule-making. Due to immigration patterns and a poor education system America will not be able to return to the ideals that inspired it's greatness. In other words, America is in decline.

-2 ( +3 / -5 )

Wolfpack is very correct. Currently we have a government that is destroying job creation in the name of the environment. Keystone Pipeline which would provide hundreds of jobs blocked for years. One billionaire offered the Democrat party100Million dollars to block it so Railroads can be used to deliver the oil to market. Higher energy costs. EPA running amok on more and more regulations. that could cause the US to lose up to 20% of their energy production. Who will do without power? Not those in Washington DC. America was built on cheap energy. Now those costs are driving some businesses to other countries. Loss of jobs in America. Country is divided not by republicans but by Democrats who want to keep a fractured US voter Groups to keep them from talking to one another and compare notes. All the broken promises of the Democrats would destroy the party if each group compared notes of promises made and not delivered. Will it take states to leave the union or will a Constitutional amendment process called by the states save the US from the corruption that is filled Washinton, DC.

-2 ( +2 / -4 )

What the American people typically don't realize is the US federal government has effectively removed the protections in the construction, James Madison stated were there to protect the country from a possible federal tyranny. This can be found in the debate between Patrick Henry and James Madison. The two protections were the feds being banned from directly taxing people. Try he feds were supposed to bill the states and those bills made valid by the second protection, a Senate appointed by state governments. Madison Also said this Senate ensured one house was not subject to mob rule or popular rule. Madison was clear, the states were to use the Senate to block the excesses of the feds and Madison stated there can be No tyranny of an all controlling pervasive federal government if the politicians have No money. These protections were removed in 1913 and less than 100 years later we now have What Patrick Henry feared. So the people of America Do not need to secede to get America back. The people need to smack down politicians by cutting the government off from the blank check to all money, and demand the states start protecting them from government. Try he media is a failure Also. The media should be effectively assuming everything government does is suspect. Instead the media protects government from people. Better to secede from media if we want a benefited here. Bottom line here is Madison said if you want to be America, keep government under control by states protecting.people against fed, feds protecting people against states, all of the government restricted from money. The last achieved because state government and corporations, where money comes from, have the means to fight the government to keep taxes low and states have a Senate to keep spending reasonable. America simply needs to get back to the concept of individual liberty, unalienable, and back to the constution and this happens by firing the political class and rejecting their socialism.

-3 ( +0 / -3 )

Liberty like the freedom to have ABORTIONS. Got it, wingers.....

0 ( +2 / -2 )

It should be noted that the United States has one of the most stable governments in world history--mostly because most of the Constitution that was ratified in 1787 still applies today. Yes, the USA did go through one civil war, but somehow, we're pretty much still ruled by the tenants of that 1787 document. Indeed, one of the few governments that stayed stable for such a long period without running into wars over the succession of leaders was the Tokugawa Shogunate, which lasted from 1600 to 1868 and despite the strong social strata system, formed much of the basis of modern Japan.

But yet, why the strong interest in succession? In my opinion, the imposition of the Federal income tax after the 16th Amendment passed in 1913 and the tremendous expansion of Federal control over the economy from 1933 on caused a lot of long term resentment from the states, and many Americans don't like the fact their lives are dictated by small number of people in Washington, DC. (Indeed, if you 've read The Hunger Games trilogy, the storyline is an expression of this resentment.) Small wonder why there are increasing calls for regulatory and income tax reform in Washington, DC to reduce the undue influence of the Federal government; anyone who's looked at the American Federal income tax code note it is too complex and rife with political corruption.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Generally speaking, people who want to secede are making emotional outbursts and they tend to come across as nutjobs. They wrap themselves in names like "patriots" as an excuse for their extremism.

scipantheist: Liberty like the freedom to have ABORTIONS. Got it, wingers.....

Yep. They hate federal interference unless it suits their ideology. Live free.....unless you want an abortion in which case we need the government to prevent that. Stop spending....but don't touch the military. Don't trust the bureaucracy....unless it's to print useless voter ID cards which puts the government between you and the ballot. Protect the Constitution....unless it's trumped by the Bible. Believe in Democracy....unless it votes against you then you should shut down the government.

Their fight is just too important to live up to the ideals they say they believe in. They are saving America, after all.

2 ( +3 / -2 )

They hate federal interference unless it suits their ideology. Live free.....unless you want an abortion in which case we need the government to prevent that. Stop spending....but don't touch the military. Don't trust the bureaucracy....unless it's to print useless voter ID cards which puts the government between you and the ballot. Protect the Constitution....unless it's trumped by the Bible. Believe in Democracy....unless it votes against you then you should shut down the government.

Republican hypocrisy defined in a single paragraph.

2 ( +3 / -1 )

Do you support or oppose the idea of your state peacefully withdrawing from the United States of America and the federal government?

I recently visited Florida and noticed that there are high number of Latino population there. Spanish an Latin songs are more popular than English. Crimea has been Ukraine territory however it is heavily populated with ethnic Russian population. It is also true in Eastern Ukraine too. During the boom time, the people feel good and enjoy the hand outs from federal government.

When the time is touch, people want to establish their separate identity and ideas. Demographically US white women birth rate is many times lower than southern immigrants. When those kids grow up in the future, it is highly possible that there will be independent movement like Scotland or Catalonia of Spain.

It will not happen overnight. However it is possible that new generation will become the trouble makers like French speaking population of Quebec.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

Generally speaking, people who want to secede are making emotional outbursts and they tend to come across as nutjobs. They wrap themselves in names like "patriots" as an excuse for their extremism.

More like the giant states being California and New York being hijacked by the tree hugging EPA Silicon Valley, nutty wood crowd that sees itself as the elite of humanity and therefore has every right to treat the rest of society as degenerates is beyond insulting and deplorable.

Liberty like the freedom to have ABORTIONS. Got it, wingers.....

Abortion is not the problem, if any, it's LATE TERM that we are talking about?

Yep. They hate federal interference unless it suits their ideology. Live free.....unless you want an abortion in which case we need the government to prevent that. Stop spending....but don't touch the military. Don't trust the bureaucracy....unless it's to print useless voter ID cards which puts the government between you and the ballot. Protect the Constitution....unless it's trumped by the Bible. Believe in Democracy....unless it votes against you then you should shut down the government.

What a hock of crap! The problem is the Fed gov. Has been trying to long to tell average Americans what they should eat, how they should live, how they should pay for their healthcare. Taking too, way too much of our money, trying to dismantle our military, while our enemies are building up theirs, creating more debt. Trying to cheat the voting system, the politicians lie and cover up everything bad that happens to our people overseas, they allow the gov. to spy on us, they send the IRS to lie and to find anything they can, they refuse to allow us to worship the way we like and yet, they call themselves Democrats.

That's the reason why some states should be allowed to secede if they want, the liberals can have their outrageous tax hikes, their vegan food and live with their smugish attitudes!

Their fight is just too important to live up to the ideals they say they believe in. They are saving America, after all.

-6 ( +0 / -6 )

The problem is the Fed gov. Has been trying to long to tell average Americans what they should eat, how they should live, how they should pay for their healthcare.

...say the republicans out of one side of their mouths, while saying that the government should control what a woman can and can't do with her body out of the other side of their mouths.

Taking too, way too much of our money, trying to dismantle our military

You do realize this is an oxymoron, right? "Don't take too much of our money" say the republicans out of one side of their mouths, while saying "fund our military for world domination" out of the other side.

creating more debt.

See last post. It's the military which is driving up debt. It's wars in countries where the US doesn't belong that is driving up debt.

Trying to cheat the voting system

Voter fraud - the problem that doesn't actually exist. Gerrymandering - the problem that does.

You basically just proved the hypocrisy outlined by SuperLib in your post. Thanks for proving his point.

3 ( +3 / -0 )

Puerto Rico is a COMMON WEALTH just like GUAM

You seem to have a problem with your caps lock, because you keep capitalizing certain words. "Commonwealth" is of course a polite term for a de facto (and willing) colony.

The fact remains that Puerto Rico would like to be a full US state, rather than 2nd class citizens. It is an interesting contrast to those people who would like there state to become independent.

I wonder which state had the most pro-independence support? Texas, probably.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

@Ah so

I wonder which state had the most pro-independence support? Texas, probably.

More likely to be Alaska, I'd have thought. The Independence Party there is the biggest third party in the whole of the States.

Ironically, they were denied a referendum by their own Alaskan court, which ruled that secession is illegal.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Slavery is undoubtedly the issue that caused the US Civil War. Slavery was an abomination and the major unresolved issue dating back to America's founding.

My ancestors fought in the civil war. They had escaped persecution in europe a generation previously, and settled quietly in New England. Part of the family became small farmers, one became a lawyer, another a doctor. None were slave owners.

When the civil war broke out, my ancestors (three cousins, all officers) traveled south and fought for the confederacy. They did not fight to maintain slavery, they fought against what they thought was oppression of the type they despised in europe. Lincoln suspended many of the rights in the constitution, 70,000 American citizens were arrested and imprisoned without ever being charged with an offense. The result of this action drove many freeminded people to join the confederacy.

At the end of the war, my ancestors did not return north, as they found living in the "United States" distasteful. They did not remain in the south, which was defeated, so they took every surviving member od their families, and moved to the western territories, where there were no states, and llttle of the federal government.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

For the past few weeks, as Scotland debated the wisdom of independence,

2 years actually, but hey ho...

Give them Texas and Florida, and send all the secessionists to those two states.

The US would be better off without them (both the secessionists and the two states), and they can be happy in their vehemence in their new country

This is actually pretty close to what the English were saying about the Scots over the last couple of months. Seems like the same mentality .

I voted to stay British... I'm one of the 55% of Scots proud to be British AND Scottish. I suspect that if such votes were to be held in America the outcome would be similar. But don't do it... thanks to this stupid referendum Scotland is divided and the UK as a whole damaged. Don't do it America.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

thanks to this stupid referendum Scotland is divided and the UK as a whole damaged.

Don't do it America.

No worries on this - America is already divided and damaged. I'm proposing a quarantine of the disease by confining it to the two most poisoned states, Texas and Florida.

-5 ( +1 / -6 )

AiserXSep. 21, 2014 - 09:21AM JST 1 in 4 want to secede because the U.S is too heavily taxed and too heavily regulated. They are sick and tired of an ever expanding growth of the federal Govt.

Would 1 in 4 give up Social Security and Medicare benefits at 65? Maybe these people should move out of the country and declare their own independence, and sign a contract stating that they will not need Social Security and Medicare. Sounds like great tax savings to people in the U.S.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

Would 1 in 4 give up Social Security and Medicare benefits at 65? Maybe these people should move out of the country and declare their own independence, and sign a contract stating that they will not need Social Security and Medicare. Sounds like great tax savings to people in the U.S.

Ah, Social Security, the fund into which I and my employer pay much into every week, but which, after I retire, will pay me back less than 20% of what I paid into it, if I am lucky. And that is the best case scenario, the Social Security trust fund is projected to be insolvent by the time I am ready to retire. Had I simply put my social security payments into my savings account, I would have a far better quality of life after I retire. If I could avoid paying Social Security payments and simply provide for my own retirement, I would, but of course we are not offered that option.

Medicare benefits? Fewer and fewer doctors and hospitals are having anything to do with medicare. And the medicare system is not any more financially sound than Social Security. One of the reasons I went to university and struggled to get a good job was because I didn't want to be stuck depending on Social Security or other government "benefits" after I retire.

People want their states to secede because though they are forced to pay income tax, social security tax, medicare/medicaid/Obamacare, they are getting little in return. The original purpose of the federal government was not to provide us with pensions, medical care, or anything else, the purpose of the government was merely to provide a safe and equal environment which would allow the people to provide these things for themselves.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

No worries on this - America is already divided and damaged. I'm proposing a quarantine of the disease by confining it to the two most poisoned states, Texas and Florida.

I think you meant, California, New York, Washington, Colorado and Vermont.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

I think you meant, California, New York, Washington, Colorado and Vermont.

No, not at all.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

If you look at the tax rate, the high cost of living and poverty rate and median household income down. Oh, they most definitely are.

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

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