G-8 summit ends with key emitters' nod for 'deep' CO2 cuts but no target

Wednesday 09th July, 07:32 PM JST

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weedkila at 01:48 AM JST - 10th July

Many South Pacific islanders have had to be moved to higher ground

Do a search yourself on global temperatures during the medieval warm period, which was about 800 years ago. It is scientific fact that temperatures were warmer then than now. Were there turbo charged carts or an over abundance of farting cows in the middle ages? No, it was the Sun.

Then there was the mini ice age in the 18th century which, until 1940, the earth was coming out of. After WW2 there was a massive increase in industrialisation yet global temperatures fell from 1940 till 1975 to such an extent that the BBC, Newsweek and other media were talking about the dangers of a new ice age. Do you remember this?

These temperature peaks and troughs have always corresponded with solar radiance and particularly sunspot activity. The fewer the number of sunspots the cooler it gets. This has little or nothing to do with CO2. Funnily enough global warming is based on global temperatures that have been taken back only to the mini ice age. Include the medieval warm period and you get a totally different picture.

I have to say that some of you people are brainwashed enough that you are not even willing to consider the other side to the argument. I can provide the links to prove this but it would be better if you did your own research instead of just repeating gloom and doom. (Or maybe you are addicted to that?)

I will add one link from a guy called Peter Taylor, a former advisor on pollution and energy policy to national governments, the EU and the UN which might help you to understand.

Former UN Environmental Advisor Climate Change Confusion

http://youtube.com/watch?v=UUUYcfsaSnw&feature=related

One more thing. This global warming thing is mostly to do with what is called the 'hegelian dialectic', or Problem, Reaction, Solution in common terms. That is, a problem (or sometimes even a non-problem like WMD in Iraq) is introduced to the public, everyone reacts and says we must do something about it. Then you find wars start, your rights are taken away or other drastic measures are introduced by the govt. Check it out.
WilliB at 02:37 AM JST - 10th July

There is also global warming on Mars, Jupiter, Venus, and even Pluto. I am waiting with baited breath for the G8 to come up up with 50-year plan to solve that.
Eccoman at 06:01 AM JST - 10th July

Weedkila, you show a pretty good understanding of what's really going on, particularly regarding the Hegelian dialectic.

UN proponents have been arguing for years for some sort of global tax to fund their wasteful activities and corruption, and a tax on carbon emissions (carbon trading) seems to be one idea that's attracting a lot of currency among governments and the UN nowadays.

While I'm a supporter of sustainable and environmentally cleaner practices in order protect resources for future generations, I strongly disagree that we need to be punished for some non-issue that's more about concentrating power and money than saving the planet.

Climate change is real: it occurs naturally and cyclically in ways we are yet to clearly understand, and there's very little the G8 twerps and their lackeys say or do that'll change this fact.
nutsagain at 06:18 AM JST - 10th July

weedkila: nor offense, but this is very much a case of; "if you can't blind them with brilliance then baffle 'em with BS." All the research in the world comes up with the same o-v-e-r-w-h-e-l-m-i-n-g evidence: we're in very deep doo-doo and the narrow window of opportunity to get out, is rapidly closing. Now there the facts and to look for obscure counter proposals is daft. Sure, google them and you'll fine them but here comes that word again; the evidence is 'overwhelming' that we are at grave risk of wiping ourselves out through global warming. Fierce and drastic measures must be take now...
nutsagain at 06:38 AM JST - 10th July

Ecoman: I just cannot believe you posted that... Nice sentences, clear, well written and you probably have a nice smile, great teeth, no chips etc. which is amazing because you've bitten off far more than you can chew on this one. Utter drivel. There is indeed more than just 'very little' the G8 can do about it and your whimsical analysis is just that: bereft of any understanding of the issue here. We are in trouble and the G8 leaders can and must do something and do it quickly. This is not a time to be daydreaming in abstractions but a time for action on a very grave problem.
Eccoman at 10:33 AM JST - 10th July

Nutsagain, G8 has been prattling and dithering about global warming and climate change for years and nothing of substance has been done.

If you can show me conclusively that they've achieved anything significant apart from producing plenty of their own CO2 by flying around the world wasting taxpayers' money instead of teleconferencing, I'm as much an audience as the next guy.

Worthwhile changes will come from the grassroots, not through diktats issued from above. You only have to see what the state government of Victoria is doing here in little ol' Oz that governments are incapable, and to some extent unwilling, to do what actually makes sense. A couple of screaming examples include plans to pipe water from one drought-stricken region to another when there's little to pipe; another is plans to build a brown coal-powered power station when they are constantly harping on about emissions. Go figure!
nutsagain at 11:04 AM JST - 10th July

I agree with you completely; they are dithering.
weedkila at 11:59 AM JST - 10th July

All the research in the world comes up with the same o-v-e-r-w-h-e-l-m-i-n-g evidence

Really? Then show your overwhelming evidence that CO2 is to blame for warming temperatures. And how do you account for a steep drop in global temperatures over the past 18 months? Google the 4 US/UK temp. tracking satellites (HadCRUT, RSS, UAH, and GISS) or check weather around the globe over the past winter and you'll see. There have been record cold spells in many areas and unusual snow falls in parts of the middle east. At least one top Russian scientist is predicting a cooling trend and recommends fur coats instead of t-shirts.

http://en.rian.ru/analysis/20080103/94768732.html

Same with one of Aussie's top geophysicists and astronautical engineers.

Sorry to ruin the fun, but an ice age cometh http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,23583376-7583,00.html

No global warming sceptics as far as I can see are against measures to deal with pollution and waste but it is people like you who fail to think by rejecting all counter-arguments that perpetuates this CO2 myth.

If the current global COOLING trend continues together with rising prices in wheat and other commodities we are going to see starvation on a mass scale (which is the plan.) The same people who brought us global warming are bringing us the food problem through biofuels and speculation. (It's done through compartmentalisation so that in most cases well meaning people don't realise what their actions lead to. Only the wealthy elite at the top of this pyramid and others like G8 leaders know what's going on.) As Ecoman pointed out this is about the concentration of power and money. That should clear up your confusion as to why the G8 does nothing but talk about this problem but I have doubts you will even consider what I'm saying.

PS; Sunspots can be massive and are often larger than the size of earth. Any affect CO2 might have would be like a piddle in the ocean.
nutsagain at 01:45 PM JST - 10th July

'this CO2 myth, huh? Well, I suppose I could spend half a day Googling and posting counter links but what's the point? You believe what you believe I suppose, and I say your dead wrong. Dangerously wrong in fact, so does just about the rest of the world. There's no 'confusion' here at all, just the empirical evidence of scientists convinced the CO2 emissions are having an enormous impact on mine, yours and everyone's futures, period.
nutsagain at 01:47 PM JST - 10th July

As I've already posted; 'blind us with your brilliance or baffle is with your BS' makes no difference and the 'weighty' links are not convincing in the least.
Zen_Builder at 01:58 PM JST - 10th July

In response to weedkilla.

Yeah, there may have been hotter times in our history.

But what was the impact on the worlds population than? How big was the worlds population and how big was their impact on the environment?

You are comparing oranges to apples. Current day human is ruining their environment and earth can't take it to support humanity.

Forget about nations being blamed in the media like japan and blue-fin tuna. Also look at how many blue-fin tuna are being caught of european/australian shores, more than twice the legal limit and done by europeans and africans.

Sharks are on the decline with some species close to extinction.

Than　look at the fish-stocks like Cod(Fish & Chips, Fish-fingers/Fish-Sticks, etc). You eat those, if so you are part of the problem.

Humanity is taking more　from mother earth than it can give. Add to that pollution and global heating(natural or not) and we are in the BIG doodoo.
weedkila at 03:10 PM JST - 10th July

'blind us with your brilliance

The truth needs nothing to support it. It's easy for me to quote facts and trends but you automatically trash anyone that tries to put across a view different to the one you have been programmed to accept, like a sheep or a robot. I'm sincere when I say be careful or you might end up with problems like this poor teenager in Australia.

Doomed to a fatal delusion over climate change

Writing in the Australian and New Zealand Journal of Psychiatry.... "A 17-year-old man was referred to the inpatient psychiatric unit at Royal Children's Hospital Melbourne with an eight-month history of depressed mood . . . He also . . . had visions of apocalyptic events."

"The patient had also developed the belief that, due to climate change, his own water consumption could lead within days to the deaths of millions of people through exhaustion of water supplies." But never mind the poor boy, who became too terrified even to drink. What's scarier is that people in charge of our Government seem to suffer from this "climate change delusion", too.

http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/story/0%2C21985%2C23991257-25717%2C00.html

Zen_Builder:

Yeah, there may have been hotter times in our history. But what was the impact on the worlds population then? How big was the worlds population and how big was their impact on the environment?

My point is what are we going to do about this when it's The Sun which drives Earth's temperatures. Shall we falsely blame CO2 for natural changes in Earth's climate which is really due to the number of sunspots, water vapour (the biggest factor for daytime/nighttime temperature differentials), cloud cover and other natural phenomenon?

The headline of this story is "G-8 summit ends with key emitters' nod for 'deep' CO2 cuts but no target"

Man-made climate change due to CO2 is what I am disputing, not pollution, over-fishing or man's greed in general. You guys are really confused. As I mentioned earlier, it would be actually better if there were an increase in CO2 as this would be great for the planet. (I'm not talking about the other pollution that is produced alongside CO2 - through better technology these gases & particulates should be filtered.)

The following is by a research scientist at a US university. Is he not correct?

...plant physiologists have known for a long time that most vegetation loves more carbon dioxide. It grows faster, is more drought-tolerant, and is more efficient in its water use.

http://article.nationalreview.com/?q=MWJlODMxYmUzYWNmZGZiM2NhNmExYTYyNDUzYmViZjQ

Nuts: I'm still waiting for your answers to my request/question:

-Then show your overwhelming evidence that CO2 is to blame for warming temperatures.

-And how do you account for a steep drop in global temperatures over the past 18 months?
nutsagain at 05:23 PM JST - 10th July

Gee, there's just no getting past you on this is there? You've gone in with an opinion and searched for facts to support it. To dick around on Google for some very big time authorities.

Overlooking CO2 emissions is too easy. As I've said, the evidence is empirical not apriori nor academic... It's right there in front of your eyes! CO2 has a lot to do with this problem. The burden of proof is not which of us can out Google each other but using good ol' commonsense. The hottest years ever have been in the last few years in direct correlation to rising tonnage of CO2 emissions.

Even Blind Freddy's dog knows that CO2 causes warming. We we do not know the likely rate within a factor of three. Ignorance is not a good basis for dealing with risk...

First, let's look at the reconstruction of the rise of carbon dioxide since the time of James Watt. Scientists derived samples from extracting air in polar ice, and measuring its carbon dioxide content. The measurements of Charles D. Keeling, since 1957, on Mauna Loa. The overall rise is from just below 280 ppm (the “pre-industrial” value) to the present values above 360 ppm, an increase of a factor of 1.3.

I rest my case. CO2 emissions DO affect global warming. Now I need a drink. Sigh....
nutsagain at 05:48 PM JST - 10th July

Error. Please read as: "CO2 emissions are one of the major causes if not THE major cause of global warming." Posted without an edit or spellcheck, sorry. Keeling's research though Wikipedia. Also, " To dick around on Google" is clearly out of context. What was I thinking about? Sorry again.
bamboohat at 11:09 PM JST - 11th July

I don't why this has to be so difficult. It's a combination of science, politics, greed, and sheep. Let me break it down for you:

Sun creates sun spots and solar radiation. They heat up the planet. The oceans (the biggest contributer BY FAR of CO2) heat up hundred years later. INCREASES IN CO2 FOLLOW WARMING. Not the other way around. Get it?

Politicians sees a statistically provable RELATIONSHIP (NOT A CAUSE AN EFFECT) between CO2 and warming.

These politicians proclaim to the populace, DANGER DANGER DANGER, and give everybody a believeable, easy smug way for otherwise unremarkable people to feel special by saying big important things like "WE NEED TO SAVE THE PLANET YOU BAD CO2 USING PEOPLE!"

Also, otherwise unremarkable researchers get easy grant money by inserting "Global Warming Effect on....." onto whatever they want to study.

It's actually quite a win/win/win bit of social engineering. Politicians get more control, everybody and their brother can get a grant to study some made up science, and sheeple get to feel special by buying hybrid cars and wringing their hands on internet message boards.