Abe likely to visit Yasukuni Shrine by end of year, aide says

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  • -3

    some14some

    Let PM Abe atleast deal with war dead since China/Korea have refused to deal with him.

  • 1

    gokai_wo_maneku

    We really should have followed McArthur's original plan to tear down the shrine and make a dog racing track. But the envoy of the Pope in Tokyo said Japanese have the right to pay respects to war dead, and the plan was dropped. Thank you Pope! Now we have to put up with these cheap political drama queens.

  • 3

    bannedacctsam

    Abe has every right to visit and pay homage to Yasukuni shrine.

    BUT why doesn't Abe visit the shrine in a private capacity, instead of making the visit a political topic?

    The Abe administration has publicly stated that they want to a dialog with China and ROK - this public/political declaration by a Abe insider isn't helping mend ties.

  • 5

    Viclovesdrama

    The question for me is always why are they hanging on this tradition? Is it meant to be a provocation or are they really honouring the war dead? Either way these people seem to be stuck in a not so glorious past.

  • 9

    Mitch Cohen

    So why do Japanese politicians overlook the beautiful Chidorigafuchi, if they are so eager to pay respects to the war dead?

    Is it because they are making a political statement with these visits, rather than merely wanting to pay respects?

    A cynic in me says that if the Chidorigafuchi was controversial and Yasukuni was not, they'd be visiting the Chidorigafuchi instead.

  • 5

    timeon

    I do understand that the Chinese and Koreans are using this for gaining political capital at home. lame, but that's politics. what I don't understand is the media hysteria here. everyday top news: "Abe's cousin's brother visited Yasukuni"; "some dude in the cabinet visited Yasukuni"; "Abe may visit Yasukuni sometimes"; "China is upset"; "Korea is upset", etc. etc.

  • 1

    smithinjapan

    Of course he will. He's pledged a dozen other things while doing the opposite, so why not renege on his pledge to improve ties with Asian neighbours as well? But let me guess, people will be exasperated and shocked when other nations get angry over his visit.

  • -6

    Get Real

    If Yasukuni didn't exist, crap politicians in these 3 countries would just invent another vehicle for cheap political point scoring.

  • -6

    tinawatanabe

    I wish people stop interfering in other country's spiritural issues.

  • 2

    marcelito

    Abe can do as he wishes , but please spare us the " we cant understand why our neighbours are upset and dont like us " comments and bewildered expressions afterwards.

  • 5

    hkitagawa

    I believe, our Emperor never visited it. Government should keep religious out of the agenda.

  • 2

    smithinjapan

    tinawatanabe: "I wish people stop interfering in other country's spiritural issues."

    Spiritual? People here have Shinto weddings and Buddhist funerals. There is nothing spiritual about the visit of a PM to a place even the Emperor, which the place supposedly honors and considers a demi-god, won't visit.

  • -4

    CH3CHO

    smithinjapanOct. 21, 2013 - 11:26AM JST

    It is a spiritual issue. If China and Korea ignore the visits, it would not be a headline anymore. The question is if you respect the freedom of religion in another country.

  • 0

    borax

    So why do Japanese politicians overlook the beautiful Chidorigafuchi, if they are so eager to pay respects to the war dead? Is it because they are making a political statement with these visits, rather than merely wanting to pay respects? A cynic in me says that if the Chidorigafuchi was controversial and Yasukuni was not, they'd be visiting the Chidorigafuchi instead.

    My understanding is that Yasukuni holds the spirits of ALL those who died fighting for Japan in wars, while Chidorigafuchi holds the remains of the dead who could not be identified. So while Chidorigafuchi is an important place for paying respects, it only applies to a small fraction of all those who died in wars. Also, Chidorigafuchi has only been around for 50-someodd years, while Yasukuni has been there, and held the same purpose, for a hundred years longer.

  • -2

    tinawatanabe

    We've been visiting Yasukuni for centuries. Trying to stop this is a very serious business. Do you think you can change Muslim people into Christians? It is as seriou as that.

  • 0

    Weasel

    This is getting to be like the person who's extremely apprehensive about going to the dentist's office out of fear of getting experiencing any type of pain. Take the Valium, get the visit over with, and deal with the subsequent fallout afterwards.

  • -2

    tinawatanabe

    Smith-san It does not matter what you think. You can not change Japanese as much as I can not change you people. The only way you can stop Yasukuni visit would be to wage all out war against Japan. If you won, that is.

  • -1

    justbcuzisay

    tinawatanabeOCT. 21, 2013 - 02:26PM JST Smith-san It does not matter what you think. You can not change Japanese as much as I can not change you people. The only way you can stop Yasukuni visit would be to wage all out war against Japan. If you won, that is.

    thats just silly. remember that war that created all these war criminals?

  • -1

    smithinjapan

    tinawatanabe: "You can not change Japanese as much as I can not change you people."

    I think that needs qualifying, especially since many Japanese are against PM visits to Yasukuni, INCLUDING THE EMPEROR! You cannot change the thoughts of right-wingers who wish only to wage war. That's all. And by visiting Yasukuni, that's what these politicians want. You can't pray for peace by making others angry while praying for the souls of criminals.

  • 0

    CH3CHO

    smithinjapanOct. 21, 2013 - 01:45PM JST

    I respect freedom of religion anywhere, of course, but like I said, Shinto wedding, Buddhist funeral for most here (as well as the fake church).

    Your definition of religion is arbitrary. Learn the history of religion in Japan. Buddhism came to Japan in 6th century. Over the centuries, people found the essence of Buddhism is not so far from that of Shintoism. So, the two religions gradually merged into one. There are quite a lot of joint Shintoism, Buddhism establishments in Japan. Believing Buddhism and Shintoism at the same time is not a contradiction. The Gods in this belief are not jealous.

  • 0

    smithinjapan

    CH3CHO: only as arbitrary as most Japanese believers ' in actual religion. Some 52% or so of people here are supposedly Buddhist, but what percent of that practices it? Abe's visit to the shrine would be as 'spiritual' as a visit to the toilet--he's doing it because he needs to.

  • 0

    CH3CHO

    smithinjapanOct. 21, 2013 - 03:58PM JST

    Some 52% or so of people here are supposedly Buddhist, but what percent of that practices it?

    The largest sect in Buddhism in Japan is Jodo Shinshu. In that sect, the only duty of a believer is to pray for Amida once in life time, and Amida will bring the soul of the believer to nirvana after death. For the rest of his life, he can live as his "true heart" wishes. I think people here practice Buddhism.

  • -2

    pochan

    The only way you can stop Yasukuni visit would be to wage all out war against Japan.

    Keep going in your willful, prideful and arrogant ways and that is exactly what will happen. Have you any idea of the scale of the atrocities that were committed against China? They haven't forgiven Japan and likely won't forgive for many more generations, such was the scale of the suffering Japan inflicted. Do people here honestly believe that Israel for example has forgiven Germany? They aren't even close to trusting them again, but the difference is that Germany doesn't give them any reason. Germany has behaved in an exemplary way since the end of WW2. Japan on the other hand gives China reason to continue to distrust Japan regularly. It isn't just these visits to Yasukuni, the depth of Japan's denial and obfuscation of history is staggering. The question is does Japan's right wing and people like you want war with China? I think the answer is probably yes.

  • -3

    tinawatanabe

    Tell me, which country did not have war criminals? Do Japanese people today have war criminals?

  • 1

    some14some

    It' too late, off-season visit might offend war dead souls. As such, Abe may consider any such visit next year.

  • 3

    CH3CHO

    pochanOct. 21, 2013 - 05:35PM JST

    The only way you can stop Yasukuni visit would be to wage all out war against Japan.

    Keep going in your willful, prideful and arrogant ways and that is exactly what will happen.

    That is the problem with China. Since China oppresses the human rights in their own country, they think they can go all the way to oppress the human rights in foreign country, too. Freedom of religion is written in the Universal Declaration of Human Rights. If China likes it or not, they cannot start a war to deny freedom of religion in a foreign country. A visit to Yasukuni does not deny anything.

    China has long way to go to respect the international laws. I think this will be the main mission of the world in this century. Otherwise, China will be an uncontrollable tyrant.

  • -1

    gokai_wo_maneku

    In spite of all this, according to the Nikkei, China is worried about falling investment in a slowig economy, and China is now asking Japan for more investment. In this case, can I say "China is hitting on Japan"? (not in the "romantic" sense)

  • -1

    pochan

    Freedom of religion is written in the Universal Declaration of Human Rights. If China likes it or not, they cannot start a war to deny freedom of religion in a foreign country.

    Do you honestly think that this is the only issue? In would say that both sides have a lot of reflection to do

  • 0

    ControlFreak

    Yasukuni's position on WWII is as follows: "Yasukuni Shrine does not regard the conduct of Japan during World War II as an act of aggression but rather matter of self-defence and a heroic effort to repel European Imperialism. "

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ControversiessurroundingYasukuni_Shrine

    In conjunction with this, it enshrines and honors 1068 tried and punished war criminals.

    In other words, it is the opinion of Yasukuni that Japan was completely justified in every little thing it did during WWII and all atrocities committed were actually necessary and even heroic. It considers the deaths of the war criminals to have come about through good and heroic service to the emperor and nothing more or less.

    Actions speak louder than words. When Abe goes to pay his respects, he is telling us through action that he agrees with Yasukuni's position on the war and the war criminals. He thinks Japan did nothing wrong and never owed anyone any apologies for anything to do with the war.

    How can such a person be respected and trusted? Its like the son of Ted Bundy saying his dad was a good man who only killed in self-defense. Its freaking scary that this " man" is the PM of Japan.

  • -5

    CH3CHO

    ControlFreakOct. 21, 2013 - 06:43PM JST

    Yasukuni's position on WWII is as follows: "Yasukuni Shrine does not regard the conduct of Japan during World War II as an act of aggression but rather matter of self-defence and a heroic effort to repel European Imperialism. "

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Controversies_surrounding_yasukuni_shrine#Debate_in_Japan

    The wikipedia article does not show the source. I am afraid wikipedia is least reliable on controversial issues. Can you get the actual source from Yasukuni, if it ever exists?

  • 0

    homleand

    Actions speak louder than words. When Abe goes to pay his respects, he is telling us through action that he agrees with Yasukuni's position on the war and the war criminals. He thinks Japan did nothing wrong and never owed anyone any apologies for anything to do with the war.

    ControlFreak

    You've set this up with your own interpretation of Yasukuni's view on WW2, which now you claim Abe also holds. This is quite a leap of logic.

    If you want to tell us what view of history Abe holds, why not quote the man himself?

  • 2

    Mike45

    Control Freak is right. Look at yasukunis english page and you can also see from the atmosphere in the muesum that yasukuni takes an extreme right position towards Japans defeat and involvment in the war.

  • -1

    CH3CHO

    Mike45Oct. 21, 2013 - 07:14PM JST

    You know how to link. Will you show us which page in Yasukuni's site says so?

  • 0

    nedinjapan

    Abe should be ashamed of what Japan did in its dark history. Paying respect to those who caused suffering to people all around the world and brought ruin to Japan is dumb and dirty. These racists politicians should realize they are Asians just like the Chinese, Koreans, and others who they treated as the Nazis treated the Jews. This is too disgusting.

  • 0

    Fox Cloud Lelean

    Is there really any need to attach such stigma onto the dead. At the end of the day, Yasukuni is a shrine to those who have died. Paying respect to the dead is fine by me, but speaking ill of the dead is widely considered a faux pas. If I were to pass by Yasukuni Shrine, I would most likely pay my respects as well. There's a certain honour in dying for what you believe in. Others may disagree with that logic, but that's their choice. I'd rather die for something I believe in than for no good reason at all, and I would be happy if someone paid their respects to me once I have passed on, regardless of whether or not they knew me. The controversy of this shrine has been imposed upon it by other countries, who hold conflicting views, and let's face it: grudges as well. Leave the past where it is, honour the dead, and move on into the future.

  • -1

    Mike45

    in fariness to those who see disrespect towards genuine Christians in the wedding ceremonies being performed in Japan, there are many in the west who it could be said are disrespecting Japanese values as well. Having gongs in Japanese resturants, creating hybrid karate and judo forms, or buddahs as decorations in homes show, at least, a lack of cultural understanding about Japanese culture. I think, though, having a whole fake Christian institution that performs a wedding ceremony in Japan for non Christians is a bit over the top strangeness.

    CHECHO, seems the link is down. I have seen it before, with a long justification.

  • -4

    toshiko

    This could be only chance he can meet his constituent from Yamaguchi Prefecture in this year.

  • -5

    Mitsuo Matsuyama

    I m glad he will make such visit to Yasukuni Shrine this year. I know PRC and ROK will oppose, but they must understand that the most important thing that they should worry is their own country. PRC should focus on making improvements regarding pollution and human rights, and ROK should focus on her own problems.

  • 3

    CoconutE3

    And so....the chess game continues....

  • 2

    Serrano

    When Abe goes to Yasukuni, will he announce he's not there to pay respects to the war criminals enshrined there?

  • -5

    TheDevilsAssistant

    This Yasukuni thing is getting just as bad as the stupid island issues and the "X" number of Chinese ships enter Japans waters stories. How long are all countries involved going to act like babies. My daddy can beat up your daddy syndrome.

  • 0

    gokai_wo_maneku

    The issue will not go away as long as there are groups in Japan, China, and S. Korea that gain from this. And there are many.

  • 0

    toshiko

    @Serrano, Since he is not Shinto Priest (Kan-nushi), the chance is that he can onlky bow, bow, and bow (san-pai). and has to keep his mouth shut. After ceremony of bowing is over, he can go to Yasukuni jinja keidai to meet with anyone including very outspoken Yamaguchi-ken people who visit there to give respect to Boshin War dead people/

  • -4

    CrisGerSan

    It is his right both as a Japanese person and as Prime Minister, not only is it is right it is his obligation to honour ancestors and to honour the war dead. Any sane and reasonable person living in the modern age understands this, the Chinese are using it as propaganda to try to bully the Japanese....and others are too. Time to drop this as an issue and allow rituals to be a personal choice. and the choice of a culture. You don't see Japan insisting that China stop honouring New Years.

  • 0

    JTDanMan

    And once again,

    many here don't seem to understand that the internment of over 1000 people who were most definatlely not "war dead" kind of, well, causes real problems.

  • -3

    gelendestrasse

    While there may be an obligation to honor the war dead there is also an obligation to the living that is, I think, more important. Abe would do a better job of diplomacy if, for the moment, he would skip Yasukuni. Just send a donation and a nice card of explanation.

    I'd say that the Chinese should just get over it but right now there are bigger issues at hand. Unless you think that both are part of the same issue. In that case I guess Abe should go.

  • -2

    tokyodoumo

    Every time Mr. Abe ventures out to Yasukuni nothing good comes from it... the economy suffers and it angers partners and neighbors abroad... So why stubbornly go on doing something like this? That's simple... it's because the PM is the Top Right Wing Nationalist, to him it is unthinkable to apologetically bow despite the wrong Japan has committed in the past. This is the reason why he continue to deny history and defy victims of brutal aggressions. Good or bad, wrong or right his honour and respect is not meant for anyone else other than Japan and it's people.

  • 0

    ControlFreak

    You know how to link. Will you show us which page in Yasukuni's site says so?

    @CH3CHO--I got a better idea. How about YOU show us the link that shows that the position of Yasukuni is otherwise?

    Can you get the actual source from Yasukuni, if it ever exists?

    Your turn to research and link. You show us something that contradicts anything I have posted about Yasukuni and Abe.

    For now here is some more info:

    One notable factor is the appointment of new Yasukuni head priest Matsudaira Nagayoshi in July 1978, following the death of head priest Tsukuba Fujimaro, who had strongly opposed the enshrinement of Class-A criminals. Shortly after his appointment, Matsudaira, who had publicly called for reversing the verdicts of the Tokyo War Crimes Tribunal to restore Japan’s national spirit, added the war criminals’ names to the already completed list of names that were to be enshrined during the fall 1978 ceremony. Matsudaira’s eagerness to enshrine the fourteen is demonstrated in his later comment reflecting back on the enshrinement as “the one act of my entire life that I can be proud of.” He went on to explain that he had proceeded with the enshrinement as a way to discredit the Tokyo War Crimes Tribunal. - See more at: http://japanfocus.org/-Akiko-Takenaka/2443#sthash.rfMwcvZu.dpuf

    Since then, when has Yasukuni ever accepted any legitimacy of the Tokyo War Crimes Tribunal?

    They just made deities of war criminals is all. How else do you explain these things?

  • -1

    sfjp330

    Abe and Yasukuni focus good for Japan? Politician like Abe should not boast before having some accomplishments to show, which he has none. Japan's relationship with its neighbor, has at best been superficial. No deep, long term friendship established. Most Asian nations view Japan as a stranger. Abe can't even commit to joining the TPP and has not delivered on the unfairness of Japanese divorce courts toward foreign parents, and on the U.S. base agreement. He is talking "Japan is back". Back from what and to where?

  • 1

    80393

    You don't see Japan insisting that China stop honouring New Years.

    cris- what a great analogy! celebrating new years is exactly like visiting yasukuni, brilliant!

  • 1

    CH3CHO

    ControlFreakOct. 22, 2013 - 03:00AM JST

    If you want to accuse someone or some nation, you should show the basis of the accusation.

    As you said before, there is a sea of misinformation about Yasukuni or Japan in general. That is because of national propaganda campaign by South Korea, North Korea and China. The people in the countries whole heartedly believe in the government run propaganda, and think Japanese do not know the "true" history. You have to sort out which accusation is true and which accusation is false. Otherwise you will be a mouthpiece to spread misinformation.

  • -3

    JohnY921

    I wonder what Jewish would do if the Chancellor of German shows respect to war criminals. Japan needs a leader like Angela Merkel, a person with decency.

    Abe, Aso, Toru, … Good luck!

  • -2

    ControlFreak

    If you want to accuse someone or some nation, you should show the basis of the accusation.

    CH3CHO--I have! Click my user name. The topic of Yasukuni has gone on for over a week now and I have presented all sorts of evidence.

    But you seem to insist on giving fascists the benefit of any possible doubt despite my presentation of evidence that should have made things very clear. Come on. We have seen this nonsense and run-around from fascists and war nuts time and time again. This is the same garbage Hitler handed Neville Chamberlain when he told him he did not want to go war again.

    As I have said, actions speak louder than words. The position of Abe and all those politicians who visit Yasukuni is either clear or they are some dupes of magnificent ignorance. I believe its the former, as these are politicians and not the village idiots.

    These men think the 1068 war criminals were not war criminals at all and Japan was totally justified in colonizing and brutalizing Asia and launching the pacific theater of WWII. Its obvious. Why do you keep denying it?

    Either accept it or provide proof to the contrary. Yeah. YOU provide some proof. Sitting there whining about mine is not going to cut it.

  • 0

    CH3CHO

    ControlFreakOct. 22, 2013 - 12:03PM JST

    The topic of Yasukuni has gone on for over a week now and I have presented all sorts of evidence.

    You still have not shown any evidence that Yasukuni's position on WWII is as follows: "Yasukuni Shrine does not regard the conduct of Japan during World War II as an act of aggression but rather matter of self-defense and a heroic effort to repel European Imperialism."

    These men think the 1068 war criminals were not war criminals

    Everyone knows there are war criminals. But as we have discussed earlier, is it wrong to pray for a murderer after he is executed? Does praying "deny" that he was a murderer?

    Either accept it or provide proof to the contrary. Yeah. YOU provide some proof.

    Good old witch hunt rhetoric. "Prove you are not a witch or we will burn you." The rule is that an accuser must prove.

  • -3

    ControlFreak

    Everyone knows there are war criminals. But as we have discussed earlier, is it wrong to pray for a murderer after he is executed? Does praying "deny" that he was a murderer?

    @CH3CHO--What do you think their prayers are? Have any of them said?

    Do you think any of it would change the fact that they so whole-heartedly support a shrine which, in the shrine's own words, has made deities of war criminals?

    Everyone knows there are war criminals.

    But for them its in name only. These politicians don't think they are guilty, same as the head priest that had the top 14 war criminals made into deities which was by his own admission to spite the war crimes trials.

    Good old witch hunt rhetoric. "Prove you are not a witch or we will burn you." The rule is that an accuser must prove.

    I have proven it! You just hope your refusal to provide a defense will buy you deniability, same with these politicians. Not one of them has ever come forward and said that Japan's wars of aggression and greed largely had Tojo responsible for them. They go pay respects to Tojo in death, but they don't say he was wrong in life. Not a peep. Why the heck not?

    Its obvious why the heck not! This is typical fascist rigamarole. They call sex slaves comfort women. They enshrine Chinese and Korean ex-soldiers over the protests of the families. They say they will allow Chinese priests to pray for the dead Chinese IJA soldiers on their grounds, but then their uyoku dantai vanguard prevent them from exiting the bus. They promote discussion of the A-bombings in junior high school, but campaign to excise Japan's barbarity from the textbooks. They made a secret deal with Korea so as to not be bothered by former slaves claiming compensation.

    Just come on. Its obvious where all this going. These are pro-imperial Japan fascists blowing smoke up our behinds. They think Japan did nothing wrong and no Japanese did anything wrong during the war years. They would like nothing more than to make Japan just as it was then. Its obvious.

  • -1

    nvna5ux02

    I don't know why Abe still wants to do that. I can understand why he did that before becoming PM, but now he'll already in power and already enjoys popular support. It's time for him to really engage China and Korea for better relations. That is where the long term interest of Japan lies. Just calling for dialog and blame the others for not engaging is not good enough.

  • 1

    CH3CHO

    ControlFreakOct. 22, 2013 - 02:33PM JST

    What do you think their prayers are? Have any of them said?

    This is a link to the media interview with Prime Minister Koizumi after he visited Yasukini on August 15, 2006. http://www.kantei.go.jp/jp/koizumispeech/2006/08/15interview.html

    The first paragraph translates as follows.

    Question. With what thought in mind did you visit Yasukuni today?

    Answer. This is what I repeat every time, but Japan must repent of the past wars and must not start a war ever again. In addition, the prosperity and peace of Japan today is not only attributable to people alive now. Upon the invaluable lives of people who were sacrificed in the war, exists Japan as is today. For the victims who went to war and had to throw away their lives for the country and for their families, I pray at Yasukuni shrine with sincere respect and gratitude. This year, my mind does not change from last.

    Last paragraph.

    Question. What do you think of the responsibility of the Class A war criminals?

    Answer. They took the responsibility of the war and received punishment. They themselves admitted it. That issue may exist, but that and this are different issues. As I repeat so many times, I do not pray for specific persons. I pray for the entire war dead to express my condolence.

    ControlFreakOct. 22, 2013 - 02:33PM JST

    I have proven it!

    Wiki article does not count.

    They call sex slaves comfort women.

    It was US translator who called so. Ianfu means prostitute in Japanese.

    They made a secret deal with Korea so as to not be bothered by former slaves claiming compensation.

    The Korea Japan Basic Treaty of 1965 is by no means secret. It was ratified by Korean Congress as was as Japanese Parliament.

  • 1

    ControlFreak

    @CH3CHO--We are not talking about Koizumi. He retired.

    Even if we were, where did he renounce Tojo? We must repent of past wars and not start more? Very weak statements. And then he immediately pushes on to point out how the sacrifice of Tojo et. al made Japan the prosperous country it is today? Whoa. What completely conflicting statements! First he almost makes it sound like he is anti-war. Then he moves on to point out how much Japan has gained by it. He goes to Yasukuni with respect and gratitute...for Tojo and the war criminals too? He calls them all victims?? Its a slap in the face!

    Then he says the war criminals took responsibility for the war, but he does not even use the word crime or any other such clear word. He is jacking us around just like every other Yasukuni loving politician.

    But again, we are not talking about Koizumi!

    Wiki article does not count.

    Everything counts until you prove it false, and you haven't.

    It was US translator who called so. Ianfu means prostitute in Japanese.

    The kanji for "ian" means comfort and the kanji for "fu" means woman! It does not matter though, because even prostitute does not mean SEX SLAVE does it? These people avoid the topic and the truth. That SEX SLAVES are not called SEX SLAVES is the point you want to avoid with your hair splitting.

    The Korea Japan Basic Treaty of 1965 is by no means secret. It was ratified by Korean Congress as was as Japanese Parliament.

    The provisions hiding the pay-offs and the barring of ordinary citizens seeking compensation were kept secret. Plaintiffs were turned away for decades and never told the real reason why.

    All this slipperiness is the hallmark of the fascist.

  • 0

    CH3CHO

    ControlFreakOct. 22, 2013 - 04:01PM JST

    We are not talking about Koizumi. He retired.

    The latest prime minister who visited Yasukuni is Koizumi. There is no "interview with Prime Minister after Yasukuni visit" since then.

    he does not even use the word crime or any other such clear word.

    Sorry. That was my mistranslation. The translation should have been this.

    They took the responsibility of the war and received punishment as war criminals.

    ControlFreakOct. 22, 2013 - 04:01PM JST

    The provisions hiding the pay-offs and the barring of ordinary citizens seeking compensation were kept secret.

    Of course not. Read Article II. The agreement was open to public in June 1965 and ratified by Korean Congress in December 1965. http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Agreement_Between_Japan_and_the_Republic_of_Korea_Concerning_the_Settlement_of_Problems_in_Regard_to_Property_and_Claims_and_Economic_Cooperation

    As you said, there is a sea of misinformation. Be careful.

  • 1

    Guru29

    If China and Korea ignore the visits, it would not be a headline anymore. The question is if you respect the freedom of religion in another country.

    The Chinese and Koreans definitely have the right to protest against the Yasukuni cult (formerly known as State Shinto or Imperial Shinto) since Japan used Hakko Ichiu (Holy war or spreading the Imperial Way), a doctrine of the Yasukuni cult as justification for invading and murdering Chinese, Koreans and other races in the world.

    "From the standpoint of Hakko Ichiu, the Emperor of Japan is the Emperor not only of Japan but all the races of the world. Judging from the present condition of our Imperial Majesty, he is the Emperor of Japan alone at the present time, but his Majesty of Japan is the Emperor of the world, for the spirit of Hakko Ichiu has been the traditional principle of our nation. To have the Hakko liberated is the traditional desire of each Emperor of Japan" (Through Japanese Eyes, p.44, October 12, 1942).

    According to the Way of the Gods, the Emperor is not to be worshiped exclusively by the Japanese alone, but is the Emperor of all the races of the earth. Japan is a divine land, and from here, the Emperor wishes to undertake his heavenly task of reconstructing one universal household embracing all mankind. Thus the slogan, Hakko Ichiu or 'The Whole World under One Roof' is used. And this is interpreted as the divine injunction to extend the Imperial Rule to the universe, to bring the whole humanity under one government -- under Japan!

    "When one Privy Councillor asked how the statement contained in the Preamble of the Tripartite Pact that each nation should have its proper place in the world could be reconciled with Hitler's principle that only the strongest should survive, Prime Minister Konoye, Foreign Minister Matsuoka (great granduncle of Shinzo Abe), and War Minister TOJO answered jointly that only the strong nations were worthy of survival. If Japan, they said, should fail in her "grand mission of spreading the Imperial Way," it could not even be helped if Japan herself went out of existence."

    Iwane Matsui in Nanking, 1937: "Now the flag of the Rising Sun is floating high over Nanking, and the Imperial Way is shining in the southern parts of the Yangtze-Kiang. The dawn of the renaissance of the East is on the verge of offering itself. On this occasion I hope for reconsideration of the situation by the 400 million people of China."

    Prime Minister General Tojo: "People often refer to this as a dictatorial government, but I should like to make the matter clear… I am just the same as you.…It is only when I am exposed to the light of His Majesty that I shine. Were it not for this light, I should be no better than a pebble by the roadside." (Asahi Shimbun, February 6, 1943)

  • 0

    ControlFreak

    The agreement was open to public in June 1965 and ratified by Korean Congress in December 1965.

    @CH3CHO--It it were that simple the release of documents of the treaty in 2005 would not have been such news.

    However, in January 2005, the South Korean government disclosed 1,200 pages of diplomatic documents that recorded the proceeding of the treaty.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TreatyonBasicRelationsbetweenJapanandtheRepublicofKorea

    Japan refuses to release those documents still. Japan and Korea conspired to hide individual compensation. And Japan continues to insist that the sex slaves are owed nothing by the treaty, even though no mention of them was ever made in it or the related documents. The fine print is vital with such generalized treaties and both Korea and Japan denied us the clarity of the fine print for 40 years. Japan still does.

    They took the responsibility of the war and received punishment as war criminals.

    In name only. Yasukuni has no obligation to enshrine war criminals. In fact, if they had been deemed war criminals by Japan, they would not have been deified. Yasukuni simply does not think they are war criminals, and I don't think Koizumi did either. All that statement suggests is that they went to slaughter like sheep for the emperor, not that they were actually guilty.

    The latest prime minister who visited Yasukuni is Koizumi.

    Why should we care? This is not about Koizumi.

    if so, why did Peoples Republic of China welcomed Japanese Emperor on his state visit to China in 1992?

    First, that was Akihito, not Hirohito. Big difference there. Second, the emperor is not at one or in agreement with yasukuni, the uyoku dantai or the war criminal wor-ship-ping politicians. Remember, Akihito does not visit yasukuni and on his trip to China he admitted that Japan caused great suffering to the Chinese people although he did not apologize.

  • -2

    sfjp330

    ControlFreak Oct. 23, 2013 - 07:13AM JST Japan and Korea conspired to hide individual compensation. And Japan continues to insist that the sex slaves are owed nothing by the treaty, even though no mention of them was ever made in it or the related documents. The fine print is vital with such generalized treaties and both Korea and Japan denied us the clarity of the fine print for 40 years. Japan still does.

    Why don't you ask the Korean goverment. The 1965 Japan and South Korea's official documents of the treaty, Park Chung-hee administration actually agreed never to make further compensation demands against Japan, either at a government or individual level, after receiving U.S. $800 million in grants and soft loans from Japan as compensation for its 1910-45 colonial rule. It's true that the South Korean government did not take sufficient interests in its people such as comfort women who actually suffered from the colonial times, but that was the responsibility of their own goverment.

    Japan settled the issue with Korea in 1965. But a treaty is a treaty. Japan had no control over who was head of Korea’s government nor the form of government at the time of the treaty of 1965. Japan made reparations in good faith to the Korean government instead of to individuals because that’s the way the Korean government wanted it. The Korean government was supposed to pay our individual reparations. It was not Japan’s fault that Park Chung-hee used the money for infrastructure instead. Many Koreans for years didn’t even know that Japan paid reparations.

    Now isn’t that interesting? Once it became South Korea’s responsibilty to compensate any losses due to Japan’s colonial rule miraculously any losses had already been compensated. And ever since early 2000's Korea has been trying to find ways to pass their financial responsibility back to Japan. If Korea had agreed back in 1965 for Japan to handle individual compensation, as Japan had first suggested, Japan would have immediately publicized, and given claimants a deadline by which to submit claims with substantiating evidence. Japan would have honored the claim. But based on the Treaty it was up to the South Korean government to set up these measures. It didn’t happen.

  • -4

    CH3CHO

    ControlFreakOct. 23, 2013 - 07:13AM JST

    However, in January 2005, the South Korean government disclosed 1,200 pages of diplomatic documents that recorded the proceeding of the treaty.

    Do you really understand what it means? During the negotiation of the 1965 treaty, there were number of documentation meetings by the diplomats and the government lawyers of the 2 nations to determine the text of the treaty. The minutes of the discussion were kept secret, which is a diplomatic custom. The 1200 page documents released in 2005 are the minutes of those meetings. But the end result, which is the treaty itself, was disclosed to the public in 1965. If you took time to read the text in the link I provided in my previous comment, you understood that the Korean Congress as well as the Korean public understood what it meant to ratify the treaty. The original treaty text is written in Korean and Japanese.

    Article II

    1 The High Contracting Parties confirm that the problems concerning property, rights, and interests of the two High Contracting Parties and their peoples (including juridical persons) and the claims between the High Contracting Parties and between their peoples, including those stipulated in Article IV(a) of the Peace Treaty with Japan signed at the city of San Francisco on September 8, 1951, have been settled completely and finally.

    3 As a condition to comply with the provisions of paragraph 2 above, no claims shall be made with respect to the measures relating to the property, rights, and interests of either High Contracting Party and its people which were brought under the control of the other High Contracting Party on the date of the signing of the present Agreement, or to all the claims of either High Contracting Party and its people arising from the causes which occurred prior to that date.

  • 0

    kuuku

    Kyodo also said Abe had told reporters on Saturday he still regretted not visiting the shrine during his earlier term as prime minister.

    he still has no willingness to balance his views between war criminals and the victims of WWII. quite natural to pay respect to war criminals in this government, as if japan is still in the samurai period. and if two or three very close countries are still making it their political agenda to maybe gain political points out of this, isn't it possible for japan to stop this and be a leader in mending ties? how about restructuring Yasukuni shrine if it is still one source of hate from our closest "to-be future allies"?

  • -4

    notasap

    Good for him, he should go! No nation, esp. China, who celebrates Mao a man responsible for over 100 MILLION dead Chinese, should tell any other nation how to act in regards to that nations religious or cultural rituals.

  • 2

    Asian2013

    At the end of the day, Abe would not dare to visit and pay respects to class1 war criminals. Visit by year end and implement the sales tax increase in April and Abe is a goner if not gone by then!

  • 0

    ControlFreak

    No nation, esp. China, who celebrates Mao a man responsible for over 100 MILLION dead Chinese, should tell any other nation how to act in regards to that nations religious or cultural rituals.

    @notasap--If you protested China's celebration of Mao, I would support you. Just because China is wrong about one thing, does not mean Japan is right about another. Celebrating Mao and celebrating Tojo are the same things. The pot may call the kettle black, but it is nonetheless completely true!

    that the problems concerning property, rights, and interests

    @CH3CHO--There is debate about what rights and interests means. That is where the fine print is needed. Because of the fine print, people are now going after the Korean government too, and its all good. Both governments are responsible for defrauding the Korean people who suffered at the hands of the IJA. Both are liable. Both should pay.

    And you cannot sign away your rights. You certainly cannot sign away the rights of others! But that is precisely what that bit is trying to do. Its disgusting. It violates basic principles of law.

    The minutes of the discussion were kept secret, which is a diplomatic custom.

    Does not make it right. Hiding the details helps prove the evil intent in this case.

  • -1

    CH3CHO

    ControlFreakOct. 24, 2013 - 05:10AM JST

    You certainly cannot sign away the rights of others! But that is precisely what that bit is trying to do. Its disgusting.

    There WAS a lawsuite on that issue in the US concerning Koreans. This is the conclusion handed down by the US court in 2004. http://caselaw.findlaw.com/ca-court-of-appeal/1010017.html Skip to "D. Conclusion".

    D. Conclusion.

    The 1951 Treaty embodies the determination of the United States that claims of non-signatory nations like Korea, and their nationals, were to be resolved with Japan by government-to-government negotiations.

    by allowing WWII slave or forced labor victims to be resolved in court, California's law conflicts with the foreign policy expressed in the 1951 Treaty. As a result, we hold the treaty preempts section 354.6.

    The 1951 Treaty means San Francisco Peace Treaty. The ruling says that the claims of Korean nationals should be resolved by government to geovernment negotiations and that compensation claims of individuals should be barred. This conclusion is well received by international legal community. This is what happens in war reparation ever since the war was invented, or we would have never ending legal battle from both sides.

  • 0

    Pacific Citizen

    So 'NERO' fiddles while 'Rome' burns..... wake up people... i see NO mention on this sight of the CATASTROPHE transpiring in the Pacific ocean right now.... untold numbers will starve and die if no urgent action is taken.... that is just a fact..... nothing else in this world will matter....... the ocean life is already broken.... if you want the real situation check enenews website... may god help us all!!

  • -4

    nigelboy

    What was "secret" to Korea was the negotiations that lead up to the said agreement which was disclosed in 2005 or so by Korea where it was they who insisted that they take on the responsibility of individual payments despite Japan's insistence to pay them individually.

    http://www.f8.wx301.smilestart.ne.jp/honyaku/honyaku-2/718.pdf

    Pg 115-117

    Hence, there is no "defrauding" by the Japanese government for they paid the sum which at that time equaled 1.5 times the national budget of Korea.

    In name only. Yasukuni has no obligation to enshrine war criminals. In fact, if they had been deemed war criminals by Japan, they would not have been deified.

    1953 Resolution by the Diet pardoned so-called war criminals followed by 1955 Resolution which demanded that the prisoner be released. The Allieds obliged.

  • 0

    CH3CHO

    nigelboyOct. 24, 2013 - 10:16AM JST

    1953 Resolution by the Diet pardoned so-called war criminals

    That alone does not change the status of the war criminals.

    San Francisco Peace Treaty Article 11

    Japan accepts the judgments of the International Military Tribunal for the Far East and of other Allied War Crimes Courts both within and outside Japan, and will carry out the sentences imposed thereby upon Japanese nationals imprisoned in Japan. The power to grant clemency, to reduce sentences and to parole with respect to such prisoners may not be exercised except on the decision of the Government or Governments which imposed the sentence in each instance, and on recommendation of Japan. In the case of persons sentenced by the International Military Tribunal for the Far East, such power may not be exercised except on the decision of a majority of the Governments represented on the Tribunal, and on the recommendation of Japan.

    While there were some class A war criminals who were pardoned by majority of the governments of allies after recommendation of Japan, I do not think those class A war criminals who received death sentence such as Tojo were not pardoned by the allies, though I could not find definitive proof.

  • 1

    Guru29

    The 1951 Treaty means San Francisco Peace Treaty. The ruling says that the claims of Korean nationals should be resolved by government to geovernment negotiations

    Regarding the issue of war reparation, the official position of Japan is that the issue had been fully resolved by the 1951 San Francisco Peace Treaty. And Japan will not pay one single cent of reparation beyond what the Americans stipulated in the treaty.

    Since the US government refused to invite China and Korea to sign the treaty with Japan, Both China and Korea have yet to receive any reparation from Japan. However, Japan did provide some ODA grants and loans to both China and Korea but they had stressed that the ODA aren't reparation.

    As for the issue of territorial disputes, the position of Japan is that the San Francisco Peace Treaty and Potsdam Declaration (terms of surrender for Japan in WWII) are both unfair treaties and they will not comply with these treaties. For example, Japan has violated at least the following articles in the treaties:

    San Francisco Peace Treaty

    Article 2 (c) Japan renounces all right, title and claim to the Kurile Islands...

    Article 3

    Japan will concur in any proposal of the United States to the United Nations to place under its trusteeship system, with the United States as the sole administering authority, Nansei Shoto south of 29 deg north latitude (including the Ryukyu Islands but excluding the Diaoyu islands)...

    Article 8 of the Potsdam Declaration (terms of surrender for Japan) :

    "The terms of the Cairo Declaration shall be carried out and Japanese sovereignty shall be limited to the islands of Honshu, Hokkaido, Kyushu, Shikoku and such minor islands as we ( US, UK, China and Russia) determine."

  • -3

    nigelboy

    While there were some class A war criminals who were pardoned by majority of the governments of allies after recommendation of Japan, I do not think those class A war criminals who received death sentence such as Tojo were not pardoned by the allies, though I could not find definitive proof

    That's not the point about the so-called war criminals who were executed or pardoned thereafter. The issue that Controlfreak asked of whether or not these so-called war criminals are in fact "war criminals" in Japan which the answer is negative. Hence, their family members were entitled to war bereavement since they are classified as "war dead". The point that I'm trying to make is that this was done IN THE FACE of many nations including the former Allieds who had already established an Embassy in Tokyo after the SF Peace Treaty without a single complaint. This followed with the enshrinment of B/C so-called war criminals without a single complaint.

    It's rather "convenient" for both China and Korea to normalize relations with Japan and subsequently receive funds (ODA, economic cooperation package) during the years that followed and complain about it decades after the fact.

  • -1

    CH3CHO

    Guru29Oct. 24, 2013 - 11:12PM JST

    Since the US government refused to invite China and Korea to sign the treaty with Japan, Both China and Korea have yet to receive any reparation from Japan.

    Korea renounced their claim to Japan by Korea Japan Basic Treaty of 1965. Republic of China renounced their claim to Japan by China Janan Peace Treaty of 1952. Peoples Republic of China renounced their claim to Japan by China Japan Joint Communique of 1972.

    As for the issue of territorial disputes,

    We have discussed this already. Senkakus are not listed in the territories that Japan renouced in SFPT. Japan trusted Okinawa including Senkakus to the US. Trusting is different from giving up sovereignty. It is like Hong Kong. UK governed Hong Kong but the soverignty remaind with China. The US governed Senkakus during the trust period but the sovereignty remaind with Japan. The trust was terminated in 1972 and Japan regained full control of Senkakus.

    nigelboyOct. 25, 2013 - 06:50AM JST

    SFPT article 11 says,

    Japan accepts the judgments of the International Military Tribunal for the Far East

    Therefore, war criminals are war criminals in Japan with full recognition and treaty obligation of the Japanese government.

  • -2

    Sir_Edgar

    Yasukuni Shrine is NOT like Arlington Cemetary. Don't you dare compare.

    Previously, the official web site for Yaksukuni Shrine made outrageous claims like "Japan was forced into WWII because of the United States" and Japan was "the only real victim" of WWII due to the atomic bombings.

    Yasukuni Shrine is ultra-rightist and does not represent the mainstream of Japan.

    But Japanese leaders visiting this despicable place makes it seem like it is what the Japanese people believe in.

  • -1

    CH3CHO

    Sir_EdgarOct. 25, 2013 - 07:11PM JST

    Previously, the official web site for Yaksukuni Shrine made outrageous claims like

    Well. I am not so sure if it is so "outrageous". In 1941, the US government froze the assets of Japanese government, Japanese citizens, Japanese corporations and Japanese Americans in the US. After months of negotiations in which the US showed no sign of unfreezing the assets, Japan attacked Pearl Harbor to reclaim their assets, rather than losing all of their assets. Just think. What will happen when some country freezes the assets of US government and its citizens in that country?

    I do not think Yasukuni said "Japan was the only real victim of WW2". Rather, they would say "Japan was the only victim of atomic bombs during WW2." You cannot show which is which, since the text is erased any way.

    What Yasukuni says has some truth in it.

  • 4

    Kabukilover

    Abe's visit will be another loser's lament. Yasukuni is so sore losers. It is not a religious shrine but a propaganda center for false history. Poor little Japan was forced into war. Poor little Japan lost when it should have won. Poor little Japan is misunderstood and bullied by everyone, most of all by its former victims (oops, that should be by those ungrateful countries that Japan was saving from Western imperialism).

    Go to Yasukuni and forget the nearly 70 years of peace that Japan has been blessed with and all that it has accomplished. Democracy. Reasonable health care. A brilliant train service. Cameras. Watches. Cars. And most important of all, the wash toilet.

    The land of the wash toilet deserves something better than Abe and his stale right-wing politics.

  • -2

    Kobuta Chan

    Abe can visit Yasukuni whenever he wishes. Japan is free and democratic country. Communist Chinese Government and S. Korean Government will never pleased whatever Japanese politicians do. Communist Chinese Government and S. Korean Government will use Japanese politicians visiting Yasukuni Shrine as their political propaganda in their country until Communist Government in China was gone and corrupted Government in S. Korea was gone.

    Communist Chinese Government and S. Korean Government should mind their own business instead of poking their nose into other peoples business.

  • -2

    akoppa

    @Kobuta Chan I agree with you, so it is superfluous to add anything else.

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