Aso calls DPJ inconsistent, irresponsible over pledges

Tuesday 28th July, 06:37 AM JST

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Hoolie at 02:31 PM JST - 29th July

Jesus Hoolie. Are you seriously going to criticize the government and/or Japan Highway Public Corporation for not following the initial intentions when it was established in 1956? Are you not aware of what happened to Japan between 1955~1973???? There's been books written about this period in time. C'mon!!!!!

Of course I'm critical of this - the LDP used the Shuto expressway system as a revenue stream to fund road construction contracts for companies owned by supporters and other political cronies, at great cost to the general public, and are still doing so even today.

To be honest, it's even more disgusting given the other economic conditions existant at the time.
Simon_Foston at 11:38 PM JST - 29th July

0.001%? That figure is accurate, is it?

Simon Fortson. I was being generous.

No, you were being glib. 0.001% of, let's say for the sake of argument, Y800 trillion, would hardly even pay for one manga museum, or the Y130 billion the largely redundant Hokuriku Express line cost. If you're going to critize other posters for not doing any basic research before stating their opinions, it would be less hypocritical to produce some facts to support your own point of view, rather than just smug put-downs.
Simon_Foston at 11:39 PM JST - 29th July

The problem with you that when the media covers these so-called waste is that you believe that it's rampant. Are all museums subsidized by the government are a waste? Are all dams built within the prefectures are a waste? Are all expressways a waste? Of course not. The media just tries to look for the ones that they feel that are waste and report it. And what happens typically when the new regime tries to fix it? It usually ends up where some really needed projects/improvements never get funded. And you can be god damn sure that the media will report this as well.

I could cite various examples of wasteful pork barrel spending that have been reported or discussed (e.g. http://ci.nii.ac.jp/naid/110000486097), but clearly there's no point. You yourself have acknowledged that there have been such reports, but would clearly prefer to dismiss them as isolated incidents and not indicators of a general trend, or not actually a problem at all. Well, believe that if you like, but I think it's quite telling that elements of the LDP itself were all in favour of cutting back on public works spending and re-allocating gas tax revenues earmarked for road construction, at least until the road lobby put a stop to it.

Forget the fact that it's Aso that said it. DPJ's manifest is irresponsible.

I've already said I agree. So? Your point?

And as for the LDP's responsibility to "manage to run up the rest of the public sector debt", I've indicated in the previous post about the Japanese low national burden rate (taxes,dues in relation to income). That may attribute to Japan's high individual savings rate but that's another subject altogether.

I'd say it's more a matter of the government not getting so much tax revenue but still feeling obliged to spend huge amounts on rewarding politicians' local donors and supporters, particularly construction firms. So if you want to reduce the burden of debt, increase the taxes. At least LDP discussed the idea(increase in consumption tax) while the DPJ didn't even want to touch it with a ten foot pole. But the problem with DPJ is that they also criticized the amount of new debt issuance and set the limit to 30 trillion yen. So they're stuck with this pie in the sky idea.

As flawed as the DPJ's plans undoubtedly are, they are at least prepared to discuss the issue of reducing wasteful spending by the government. The LDP want to increase taxes to provide the funds for increased welfare provision and economic stimulus measures, but their plan for paying for this seems to involve ramping up the public debt even further and then possibly discussing the idea of raising the consumption tax if the economy recovers, maybe in 2011. I actually applaud some of the LDP's ideas, but their plans for paying for them seem just as vague as the DPJ's.
Simon_Foston at 11:54 PM JST - 29th July

CORRECTION:

And as for the LDP's responsibility to "manage to run up the rest of the public sector debt", I've indicated in the previous post about the Japanese low national burden rate (taxes,dues in relation to income). That may attribute to Japan's high individual savings rate but that's another subject altogether.

I'd say it's more a matter of the government not getting so much tax revenue but still feeling obliged to spend huge amounts on rewarding politicians' local donors and supporters, particularly construction firms. The USA is also noted for its ideological preference for low taxes, and has some of the same problems of politicians fixing up pork barrel deals to reward loyal supporters, but successive Democrat and Republican administrations have still managed to keep public debt down to around 60% of the GDP, compared to at least 170% in Japan. Also, I don't really think that Japanese people are really that thrifty, hence low consumption tax revenues, I just think they're over-supplied with goods and services that they neither need nor want. There is a reason why around 70% of small and medium-sized enterprises, which both ruling and opposition parties tell us must be supported, are in the red - they're just inherently unprofitable. If Japanese people want to save up their money, I say good for them. It's a pity politicians are chronically incapable of following their example with tax revenues.

So if you want to reduce the burden of debt, increase the taxes.
nigelboy at 12:09 AM JST - 30th July

Of course I'm critical of this - the LDP used the Shuto expressway system as a revenue stream to fund road construction contracts for companies owned by supporters and other political cronies, at great cost to the general public, and are still doing so even today.

Hoolie. Maybe you didn't understand my message. The eighteen year period (1955~1973) is known as Japan's Rapid Growth where they achieved the #2 status in GDP from the ashes of war and just a few years removed from GHQ operation. Some plans are meant to be scrapped and this was one of them.
nigelboy at 01:01 AM JST - 30th July

I could cite various examples of wasteful pork barrel spending that have been reported or discussed (e.g. http://ci.nii.ac.jp/naid/110000486097), but clearly there's no point. You yourself have acknowledged that there have been such reports, but would clearly prefer to dismiss them as isolated incidents and not indicators of a general trend, or not actually a problem at all. Well, believe that if you like, but I think it's quite telling that elements of the LDP itself were all in favour of cutting back on public works spending and re-allocating gas tax revenues earmarked for road construction, at least until the road lobby put a stop to it.

Simon:

The article is over 10 years old and there has been few bills/amendments that passed regarding the national subsidy to locals. It would help me a great deal if you could cite some exerpts to support your arugment. And as for the gas tax argument, my position as well as those of some members of the LDP is that they should be earmarked for road construction and maintenance and not for something that's totally unrelated like DPJ tried to do in incorporating as revenue for General Accounts.

As flawed as the DPJ's plans undoubtedly are, they are at least prepared to discuss the issue of reducing wasteful spending by the government.

And I really hate to see them reduce something that's sorely needed simply because they had to meet their flawed "waste cuts" targets.

I'd say it's more a matter of the government not getting so much tax revenue but still feeling obliged to spend huge amounts on rewarding politicians' local donors and supporters, particularly construction firms

Any my take is that if you look at the public works figures, it's down. What's up is expenses in relation to social services. This is obvious because of the increase in aging population.
Simon_Foston at 07:48 AM JST - 30th July

Yes, I could, but why? You're only going to dismiss any examples of wasteful government spending as isolated incidents or anti-LDP media spin. What's the point? However, I've cited the recently-publicized example of the Y11.4 billion manga museum before. There's also the Isahaya Bay project, costing Y237 billion, that Nagasaki fishermen went to court over in 2008 (http://search.japantimes.co.jp/cgi-bin/nn20080628a1.html) because it had destroyed their livelihoods. From the final ruling:

The judge also said farming in the filled-in part of the bay, which is believed to be affected by the possible opening of the floodgates, "cannot be said to have public benefits that exceed the violation of the fisheries' rights."

Billions of yen spent, and what does it amount to? A violation of rights.

And I really hate to see them reduce something that's sorely needed simply because they had to meet their flawed "waste cuts" targets.

Is it your contention, then, that there is no wasteful spending that needs to be cut at all? Can you provide any examples of projects the DPJ plan on scrapping that are, in fact, "sorely needed?"
nigelboy at 07:08 AM JST - 31st July

Billions of yen spent, and what does it amount to? A violation of rights

But did you read the counter arguments? Expanded farming operation and prevention of floods. That was it's original intention and it succeeded in the aspect but the project failed because they did not do enough environmental impact study on the fisheries.

What about Narita Airport? What about all the routes of Shinkansen? You think these project went smoothly? Do you think there wasn't some issue of violation rights when these project were being build.

It's easy to sit here and complain about "waste" when we usually take it for granted what is already been built that benefits our society.

Is it your contention, then, that there is no wasteful spending that needs to be cut at all? Can you provide any examples of projects the DPJ plan on scrapping that are, in fact, "sorely needed?"

There is. But if DPJ is going state that their major source of funding for their new initiative (child raising allowances and free tolls)is to reduce this so-called "waste", shouldn't they be the ones disclosing what specific items are going to be cut? Spell it out so that the public can decide if these are items that need to be cut or not.
Simon_Foston at 10:05 AM JST - 31st July

It wasn't me who ruled that the drawbacks of the Isahaya Bay project outweighed the benefits, it was a judge. No one's denying the value of Narita or the shinkansen routes, they're part of Japan's essential infrastructure and they were all completed decades ago. How about all those small regional aiports that have been built, most of which are in the red, e.g. because they were built to transport farm produce when it's actually cheaper to do it by road? How about dam construction costing billions a year, based on projections of water requirements first drawn up in the 1950s? In terms of necessity and benefit, Narita simply cannot be compared to projects like the one at Isahya Bay.

There is. But if DPJ is going state that their major source of funding for their new initiative (child raising allowances and free tolls)is to reduce this so-called "waste", shouldn't they be the ones disclosing what specific items are going to be cut? Spell it out so that the public can decide if these are items that need to be cut or not.

We agree about cutting the wasteful spending, then. I think the responsiblity for that lies with the LDP, because it wasn't the DPJ who ran up that Y800 trillion deficit. If it is really necessary to raise taxes to cover essential social services expenditure, well, so be it. It's best to be honest and upfront about this kind of thing. However, I don't think there's reall that much difference between what the two parties are saying. The DPJ say the consumption tax definitely won't be raised within the next four years. The LDP say they'll discuss the possibility of raising it in 2011, which means no hike for three years at the most, and possibly not even after that. As the special gasoline tax fiasco indicated, the LDP aren't always very good at following through with ideas if vested interests groups don't like them. In the meantime I do not think the LDP have any right to criticize other parties for irresponsible spending until they produce some comprehensive and sensible cost-cutting measures of their own, although reducing the membership of the Lower House by 10% is a good start.

In any case, neither I nor any of the other online posters here are the ones that need to be convinced one way or the other. It will be interesting to see what effect the recent manifesto pledges have on opinion polls, but right now it doesn't look as if the LDP's attacks have done them much good.
nigelboy at 08:45 AM JST - 1st August

In terms of necessity and benefit, Narita simply cannot be compared to projects like the one at Isahya Bay.

Sure. Hindsight is 20/20. But consider that the necessity of Narita airport was questioned and vehemently opposed. And as a society, we tend to never look back on it or give government credit for their foresight. And you know we're not just talking about Narita. We're talking about Shinkansen routes, highway, ports, train stations, and what not. We take it for granted to those that benefit us and are part of our everyday lives but we're quick to criticize the ones that aren't

I think the responsiblity for that lies with the LDP, because it wasn't the DPJ who ran up that Y800 trillion deficit.

Interesting watching Mino Monta this morning and discussing this "waste" in bureacracy, I believe one of the LDP panel questioned to the opposition which consisted of DPJ, Mizuho of SDP, and Kokuminshinto about the historic landing of Koichi Wakata of Endeavour and asked if JAXA was a waste which I believe one (can't remember which one) definitely said "no" while the other two remained quiet.

My point. If you question the need for existence of a specific entity on camera and live, they'll shrivel. Expect the same thing on Sunday's talk show as well.

DPJ came out with their grand scheme which is going to cost 16.8 trillion yen. They knew how much "Maizou money" there's going to be and they knew how much additional tax revenue they would generate through elimination of spouse/dependent allowance. But they were still short of their target. So what do you do? Just plug in their shortfall under "cut waste".
Simon_Foston at 09:48 AM JST - 1st August

It doesn't take that much foresight to realise that it might be useful to have a shinkansen line connecting two major cities if they don't have one already, or that if lots of cars are going to and fro between them expanding the roads might be a good idea. The problem is, the Japanese government and bureaucracy are often absolutely usesless at foresight. Consider how they planted all those sugi trees, anticipating a booming logging industry that failed to boom, and instead caused millions of people to suffer from pollen allergies. Really smart thinking.

I believe one of the LDP panel questioned to the opposition which consisted of DPJ, Mizuho of SDP, and Kokuminshinto about the historic landing of Koichi Wakata of Endeavour and asked if JAXA was a waste which I believe one (can't remember which one) definitely said "no" while the other two remained quiet.

Wow! The LDP really stumped them there! As if any politician from any party is ever going to stand up and say they think space exploration is a waste of money. What a stupid, trite question.
nigelboy at 10:39 AM JST - 1st August

It doesn't take that much foresight to realise that it might be useful to have a shinkansen line connecting two major cities if they don't have one already

Well they did have line connecting to Tokyo-tokai area-Osaka-Kyoto called 東海道本線。But people were debating whether or not such high speed was necessary considering the high cost of building a new track/stations/tunnels and the uncertainty of whether they could recoup the cost because of the unknown demand (fares were very expensive). The latter part sounds familiar doesn't it?

As if any politician from any party is ever going to stand up and say they think space exploration is a waste of money.

Uhhm. So which political party has been making noise that JAXA is just an Amakudari from Ministry of Education which prompted the government to realign them to the Cabinet ministry???
Simon_Foston at 02:55 PM JST - 1st August

Yes, but having a Tokyo-Osaka shinkansen line is clearly a no-brainer, and anyone criticizing the project was wrong.

Uhhm. So which political party has been making noise that JAXA is just an Amakudari from Ministry of Education which prompted the government to realign them to the Cabinet ministry???

The DPJ, eh? Well, point taken. So someone was dumb enough to contradict the party line when questioned about it. But actually I agree that space exploration is a big, stupid, pointless waste of money, and doubtless JAXA has been set up largely for the benefit of worthless amakudari pen-pushers. The LDP panellist was just lucky that today is hardly the day to say such a thing.
Simon_Foston at 06:27 PM JST - 1st August

Anyway, considering the amount of U-turns LDP politicans have executed on various issues, especially big ones like the special gasoline tax, election campaign reform, Koizumi's structural reforms (even if they were actually pretty stupid) and whatever Mr. Aso did or didn't think about post office privatization ("I didn't actually support it, although I said I did. But now maybe I do."), a few opposition politicians getting caught saying no when they should said yes hardly registers as significant. If you think it's going to make much difference in the opinion polls you might be disappointed.
Simon_Foston at 11:38 PM JST - 1st August

P.S. If no one else mentions it I will. The ruling coalition have been slamming the DPJ for flip-flopping on their stance towards the MSDF's re-fueling mission in the Indian Ocean. They were against it, then they changed their minds, and then they were against it again. That's a much bigger issue than contradictory statements about JAXA. However, I suspect that the DPJ will get away with it. Whatever the MSDF might be doing in the Indian Ocean simply isn't as important as improving welfare services, making education cheaper and generally reviving the economy. With all this taken into consideration, i.e. the parties' manifestos and the DPJ's flip-flopping over the MSDF issue, I strongly believe that the next set of opinion polls will indicate that the DPJ are set to deprive the ruling coalition of its governing majority, if not win the election outright.