Cabinet minister, 160 Diet members visit Yasukuni Shrine

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  • 7

    therougou

    I'm really sick of these reports. Maybe if they go visit every single day the media will eventually get tired of reporting it?

  • -9

    JTDanMan

    therougou

    It is a very important part of Japanese domestic and international politics. Saying you are sick of it is the same as saying you don't care about Japan's future.

  • -4

    sighclops

    Tear the thing down for christ's sake

  • 6

    powderb

    Sick of the reports? Or sick of Cabinet ministers going?

    Since the comparison to Arlington National Cemetery was raised: An under-reported story from a few weeks ago, with Secretary of State John Kerry visiting Chidori ga Fuchi cemetery instead of Yasukuni. Japanese politicians would be wise to follow suit. That cemetery honors people who have died, minus the Class A war criminals.

    A compromise somewhere in there.

  • 3

    JTDanMan

    Arlington is a Cemetery. Yasukuni is not.

    Bad comparison.

  • -1

    rickyvee

    you know what, who cares what china and SK think. this is such a lame and over-hyped issue, on all sides.

  • 1

    BodyBoardBabe

    14 out of 2.5 million. Wow, the shock of it all.

  • -3

    NeoJamal

    So people would feel better if the place wasn't a place of worship but a war memorial like the one in Australia with all the fancy marble buildings and statues?

  • 2

    John Constantine

    Yasukuni, which honors around 2.5 million war dead including 14 leading war criminals....Maybe they went there for the other 2,499,986 individuals that lost there lives during the War.

  • 5

    gogogo

    Move the 14 leading war criminals from the shine and put them somewhere else

  • 2

    J.basher

    Move the 14 leading war criminals from the shine and put them somewhere else<

    After reading the same thing over and over again year in year out, why can't the govt move the war criminals to another cemetery, everybody wins. Sensible and logical move, time to wake up politicians from your hibernating.

  • 5

    Simon Foston

    “I offered prayers in my private capacity...” he told reporters at the shrine.

    Anyone else see the irony in this?

    “I... mourned people who lost their lives in wars and prayed for peace."

    Prayed for election campaign donations and votes, more like.

  • 3

    80393

    I don't think this will develop into a diplomatic issue at all.

    is this his first day on the job? he certainly doesnt have a finger on the chinese/korean pulse.

    Japanese conservatives say it is natural that they pay homage to people who lost their lives in the service of their country, and say the shrine is no different from Arlington National Cemetery

    this ridiculous comparison needs to stop. i dont care where these diet members want to go or what they want to pray about, but leave the US out of it. JTDanMan is right, arlington is a secular cemetary and yasukuni is a shinto shrine with a godawful, right-wing "museum" attached to it.

  • 4

    Nipporinoel

    One answer fits all situations in Japan.

    This is most " regretable" but I'm sure they will " sincerely reflect on the situation", "collect all relevant information swiftly " and "take appropriate action speedily ", "to avoid public confusion" - "we will consider forming another expert panel.

  • 7

    tmarie

    **“I offered prayers in my private capacity. I mourned people who lost their lives in wars and prayed for peace,” he told reporters at the shrine. “I don’t think this will develop into a diplomatic issue at all.” **

    I doubt that he just happened to meet up with 159 "coworkers". I also don't think private matters need to be talked about to the media so... I highly doubt he doesn't think it will develop into a diplomatic issue. That is pretty much the whole point they go there. They can pray anywhere, they just happen to pick this place year after year after year...

  • -1

    papasmurfinjapan

    Move the 14 leading war criminals from the shine and put them somewhere else

    Just curious, how many ashes of actual war criminals are there? I believe they have Tojo's, but who else?

    If they are just the "spirits", then it is really all just semantics. If there is nothing physical to move, where are they supposed to "move" them to? A different shrine just for right-wingers? They don't actually need to do anything, so why don't they just say they moved the spirits to Disneyland or whatever and be done with it?

  • 3

    JTDanMan

    No ashes.

    Since many of you don't seem to know, it is not cemetery. It is a shrine. No bones or ashes are there.

  • 0

    papasmurfinjapan

    No ashes.

    I have read (not sure of the reliability of the source) that they did secretly move some of Tojo's ashes into the inner sanctum, not just writing his name on a scroll.

    so why don't they just say they moved the spirits to Disneyland or whatever and be done with it?

    Answering my own question here, but after a bit of reading it seems in Shinto, once the name is added and the person becomes a "Kami", then they are merged with other gods and separation is no longer possible.

  • 0

    T_rexmaxytime

    Move the 14 leading war criminals from the shine and put them somewhere else

    Do you not know that in Shitoism, once you become a god(kami)(dead), they can't separate an individual soul from the other souls?

  • 3

    Mike45

    From what I have read, its privately owned. Seems to be a collaboration between state and relegion.

  • 5

    JTDanMan

    Papa

    Yes, that is a persistent rumor. Probably true, since the fanatics who run Yasukuni are, well, fanatics.

    Nevertheless, officially its a shrine.

    And about the Shinto stuff. It ain't Shinto; its State Shinto, a nationalist cult. You can read all about it Helen Hardacre's seminal english work* Shinto and the State, 1868-1988*.

    WARNING: it is...academic. Uhm, dry. But, oh, is it informative.,

  • 0

    tinawatanabe

    It was an honor and consolation for the young soldiers to know that they were to be honored in the Yasukuni Shrine. So, they parted each other saying "See you in Yasukuni !" The musium there exists for their honors .

  • 5

    powderb

    The idea that because into Shintoism once one becomes a god, they can't separate the soul from other souls is, to me, absurd.

    This is a religion created by Man. An ideology created by Man. Surely it can be changed by Man.

  • 2

    AlexNoaburg

    japanese hitler's are honored at yasukuni. it can't get much more simple than that.

  • 0

    Cricky

    A problem that emerges every year, who could believe that a state sponsored religious tail could cause so much harm. It's almost beyond comprehension that in 2013 people justify a fairy tail or that people react so strongly to a fairy tail...talk about avoiding reality. Oh that's right the attached mueasum explains exactly how the fairy tail should be interpreted. Excluding facts of barbarity and inhuman state organised sadism to lower ranking humans. Why the complaints? Don't those people know where they stand in the rankings, they should be grateful.

  • 0

    T_rexmaxytime

    The idea that because into Shintoism once one becomes a god, they can't separate the soul from other souls is, to me, absurd.

    This is a religion created by Man. An ideology created by Man. Surely it can be changed by Man.

    Well all religion is absurd. If you can reason with any religion, then you have single handedly solved the problems that are caused by religious conflicts around the world, especially between the Muslims and the Jews.

  • 0

    Tokiyo

    T_rexmaxytime: But without religion, how will everyone justify pushing their own agenda by mixing and matching the parts of a tattered rag to fit their agenda?

    Yes, I agree, the devotion to some of these absurd notions is ridiculous.

    • Moderator

      Back on topic please.

  • -3

    pochan

    Whether we like it or not this shrine has become a symbol of Japanese nationalism. The more the Chinese and Koreans complain the more intransigent these politicians will become. The spirits of dead aren't really there, it is superstitious hogwash and I doubt they believe it either. On the other hand it has become an important symbol, I hope this pandering to a the nationalistic faction in the electorate is worth it. My personal opinion is I don't care if they go or not, both sides are petty and childish

    The idea that because into Shintoism once one becomes a god, they can't separate the soul from other souls is, to me, absurd.

    Of course it is absurd because they are not there in the first place. Mind you plenty of things about all religions are absurd.

  • 7

    ControlFreak

    I am so sick of the same misinformation being repeated over and over again!

    There are not just 14 tried and convicted war criminals enshrined there. That is only the class A's, the leaders. If you include the class B's and C's, the ones who actually butchered civilian men, women, children and babies with bullets, swords, bombs and bare hands, you get a total of 1068 murderous raping barbarians who were tried, convicted and punished enshrined at Yasukuni.

    Next, no, those enshrined at Yasukuni are not all war dead. Not remotely. A great lot of them died of old age at home. Some after life imprisonment. Some were hung after the war. Some died of disease after the war. The "official" basis for enshrinement is having served the emperor. And that is the real irony because once the war criminals were known to be enshrined there, the emperor himself stopped going. Even the new emperor won't go!

    To pay respects at Yasukuni is to wipe your tush with every thin expression of remorse Japan ever made for their evil bloody rampage across Asia. Of course Japan's neighbors and former victims are incensed that the top government explicatives are paying respects at Yasukuni! It makes it hell to believe Japan can be trusted with such explicatives at the top of its government! It makes a mockery of those people's murdered and raped ancestors too! Its totally intolerable!

    Japan will always be at odds with her neighbors until these selfish, callous, laugh-in-your-face politicians stop going to Yasukuni and start going someplace that actually honors war dead only instead of war criminals.

  • -4

    Disillusioned

    Yeah, there aren't any ashes or bones there. It holds 'souls' (if there is such a thing). Maybe the Japanese should just tell the Chinese they exorsized the 'souls' of the 14 war criminals then they would have no reason to protest. I think every country has the right to honor their war dead regardless of the circumstances. I noticed the war memorial in Australia was mentioned. Yeah, it is a lavish building, but it does not glorify war.

  • 0

    CH3CHO

    ControlFreakOct. 18, 2013 - 05:30PM JST

    Next, no, those enshrined at Yasukuni are not all war dead. Not remotely. A great lot of them died of old age at home.

    I doubt it. I never heard of it. All the stuff I have read say to the contrary. It looks as if your argument comes from nowhere. Will you show us the basis of your argument?

  • -1

    ControlFreak

    I doubt it. I never heard of it. All the stuff I have read say to the contrary. It looks as if your argument comes from nowhere. Will you show us the basis of your argument?

    @CH3CHO--Yes, in this sea of misinformation, I made a mistake. However, yes indeed, if one died of disease deemed a result of the war, or after the war in a Soviet POW camp, they are eligible for enshrinement in Yasukuni. Also, and tellingly, those who died while serving life sentences were enshrined, even who got a 20 year sentence.

    But this really seals it:

    In practice, as long as the dead had not been court-martialed or executed by the Japanese military for desertion or other dishonorable acts, they were considered to have died on official duty, hence eligible for enshrinement.

    http://www.zcommunications.org/enshrinement-politics-war-dead-and-war-criminals-at-yasukuni-shrine-by-akiko-takenaka.html

    In other words, the reasons these barbarians were executed are just not good enough for Yasukuni and her adherents. Only if the Japanese military decided one was a sick and evil criminal were they excluded. In other words, zero contrition. The Japanese war criminals are white as snow as far as they are concerned and did nothing wrong.

    Next time any of you Yasukuni supporters sees a black van with a loudspeaker on top, be sure to go over and shake your buddies's hands. Be sure to tell them how much you support Yasukuni and how those 1068 men were unjustly convicted and punished despite being such good and decent men. Maybe they will even give you a crack at the loudspeaker and you can tell everybody what a good and decent place Yasukuni is and how Japanese politicians should be able to brush off Japan's WWII deeds in peace.

    And I am sure many of you have relatives that died in the war against Japan, or suffered in that war, and surely agree that enshrining the men who murdered their buddies and started that war should indeed be honored, no problem at all.

  • 1

    Open Minded

    In addition, the museum that is attached to the shrine peddles a largely unapologetic view of WWII that is not widely accepted, either at home or abroad.

    Fixing this should be the first step.

  • -4

    CH3CHO

    ControlFreakOct. 18, 2013 - 06:40PM JST

    I do not support Yasukuni. But let me ask you. If a convicted murderer was executed, what happens to his body? Is it OK to burry him and make a tomb? Is it OK to have a funeral service for the murderer? Is it OK to visit the tomb of the murderer once in a while and pray for him? If all the answers to the questions are yes, what is wrong with visiting Yasukuni?

  • -3

    pochan

    I do not support Yasukuni. But let me ask you. If a convicted murderer was executed, what happens to his body? Is it OK to burry him and make a tomb?

    These are not the same things at all in any sense, entirely unrelated examples. This is 160 elected politicians going to a controversial shrine, it is a political act and no doubt they know it will be controversial and provocative. Personally I have no opinion on whether it is right or wrong but you gave a very bad example for comparison.

  • 2

    kuuku

    another good profitable weekend for those who run this worldly known shrine, another good day for politicians to show how much they respect the so-called '14 war criminals', and i think it is also another good entertainment for neighbouring countries and perhaps the world.

  • 3

    Mike45

    Ive been to Yasukuni and was given the dirty eye by some right wing thugs who were there performing some sort of guard duty or other strange activity. Another right winger was selling T shirts, I admit I bought, something about the Japanese spirit. I couldnt find any haka or markers anywhere, but the muesum was interesting, especially its version of Japans involvement in the war. The whole place had an evil, dark feel to it. In this strange land, where Taro and Hashimoto make blatant racist remarks but remain popular, where the Japanese government for decades has endorsed a shrine that has a muesum on its properity cleary showing its connection to facism, you struggle to make sense of it all. The arguement that Yasukuni was there before WW2, and its a kind of Arlington: true, but what to make of the muesem? but its not connected to the shrine, or was built latter; one hand washes the other type of logic.

  • -4

    some14some

    Cabinet minister, 160 Diet members visit Yasukuni Shrine

    Wedding procession without a groom(?) PM Shinzo Abe should have visited this time because China is not engaging in any discussion with him anyway.

  • 0

    ControlFreak

    I do not support Yasukuni. But let me ask you. If a convicted murderer was executed, what happens to his body? Is it OK to burry him and make a tomb? Is it OK to have a funeral service for the murderer? Is it OK to visit the tomb of the murderer once in a while and pray for him?

    @CH3CHO--All fine by me if its family and friends doing it, although if I am going to have friendly relations with them, they better not be trying to deny what the murderer did or try and cast in a good light.

    If all the answers to the questions are yes, what is wrong with visiting Yasukuni?

    The priests of Yasukuni are not friends and family. They have lumped the murderers with men who may not be perfect, but may well not remotely deserve to be lumped in with murderers. They have lumped the murderers in even despite the wishes of the emperor, and they used to ask the emperor his wishes, but now ignore him. And that is as bizarre as it gets, because to be enshrined at Yasukuni you have to die in service of the emperor!

    But if the Japanese military made the decision that they were murderers, they would not be there. So by being so respectful of Yasukuni as to pray there, one is supporting Yasukuni's position that non-Japanese simply don't matter. By praying at Yasukuni, by the position of Yasukuni, you are not praying for individuals, but the entire mass of souls they have lumped together, even the war criminals, whether you want to or not. They are all one kami now. That is what they say.

    And let us not forget that they also lumped in the souls of non-Japanese who were often forced to serve in the military, and that was done totally against the wishes of the families and quite likely against the wishes of the soldiers themselves. Those are mostly Chinese and Koreans and no surprise that when the politicians visit there, they take it that the politicians support the maligning of their ancestors

    Politicians going there just goes to show how much they deny history and how rude, disrespectful and dismissive they are to their neighbors and current allies/former enemies. There is no remorse among them or even any admission of wrong doing. They whitewash the past in the hopes of profiting in both money and power in the future. There are massive amounts of darkness in their hearts. If that were not true, and they honestly only wanted to honor war dead, they would have chosen a different venue for it long ago.

  • 0

    Bear27840

    The only way this will amount to anything is if the news service keeps pushing for something to happen.

    What members of government do in their own time is their own bussiness to do what they want with it.

  • -6

    nigelboy

    Next, no, those enshrined at Yasukuni are not all war dead. Not remotely. A great lot of them died of old age at home. Some after life imprisonment. Some were hung after the war. Some died of disease after the war. The "official" basis for enshrinement is having served the emperor. And that is the real irony because once the war criminals were known to be enshrined there, the emperor himself stopped going. Even the new emperor won't go!

    Controlfreak

    I don't know where you get this information from but a war vet that returned home and died of old age at home are not enshrined. The enshrinement of so-called non class A war criminals were done during the 50's and the Emperor continued to pay respects to them.

    If we were to take Tomita memo at face value, the reason why the Showa Emperor stopped going is completely different from what you are arguing for the underlining theme was that the Emperor thought that enshrinement of Class A individuals, who are mostly non-soldiers, should not be included among the soldiers.

    What you wrote mostly is the post 1985 Chinese government arguments that evolved or still keeps evolving when the inconvenient fact that China had no objection to Prime Ministers' 21 visits from 1979-1985 with Korea joining the bandwagon recently despite their government sending two of their top military personnel to Yasukuni as late as 2002. Another "evolving" argument is that thos two nations previously had objected strictly to PM's visiting but has evolved to where they object to PM's offering and regular lawmakers.

  • -6

    OssanAmerica

    80393Oct. 18, 2013 - 11:36AM JST "Japanese conservatives say it is natural that they pay homage to people who lost their lives in the service of their country, and say the shrine is no different from Arlington National Cemetery"

    this ridiculous comparison needs to stop. i dont care where these diet members want to go or what they want to pray >about, but leave the US out of it. JTDanMan is right, arlington is a secular cemetary and yasukuni is a shinto shrine >with a godawful, right-wing "museum" attached to it.

    Arlington is a secular cemetery and Yasukuni is not a cemetery. But Yasukuni is also secular. The comparison is not so ridiculous when you stop to consider the number of people enshrined there and how vast a time period it covers. I have been to the Museum and there is nothing "right-wing" about it. It contains military artifacts going back to the 1800s right up to WWII. The presence of WWII artifacts during which time Japan was beyond right-wing and outright fascist, does not make the museum "right-wing". There is nothing in the written explanations suggesting glorification of anything, it is simply a "museum". This ridiculous view of the museum needs to be corrected and I urge everybody who can to go look at it for themselves before simply repeating this anti-J fallacy. The only thing that is truly "right-wing" about Yasukuni is not the shrine or museum but the annoying nationalist groups in their black trucks who show up every now and then. And yes, EVERYBODY dislikes them. At this point this whole topic has become played and boring. China and South Korea continue to use this shrine as a focal point in heir anti-Japan political and diplomatic agenda. This is no secret. It is also obvious that "removal" of he names of the 14 class-A war criminals elsewhere will make no difference to the Chinese and South Korean position. The fact this is that no one is getting physically hurt by anyone going to this shrine. Individuals, politicians. monkeys dogs whatever can go and pay their respects to the what 2 million dead and pray for peace. Nobody is going to pay respects specifically to war criminals and certainly nobody is "glorifying war". While China's anti-J program was instituted in the 80s, South Korea needs to come to terms with it's own history. With over 240,000 Koreans willingly serving in the Imperial Japanese military, how many of those are enshrined at Yasukuni? Remember, all Koreans were Japanese citizens then. South Korea as a democratic country should be the first to stop parroting China's position and take a realistic view towards resolving legitimate issues.

  • 0

    CH3CHO

    ControlFreakOct. 18, 2013 - 09:11PM JST

    I do not understand the flow of logic in your latest comment, but it seems this is the point you wanted to make.

    Politicians going there just goes to show how much they deny history and how rude, disrespectful and dismissive they are to their neighbors and current allies/former enemies.

    Is visiting Yasukuni denying history? What history is denyed by visiting Yasukuni? If a politician visits tomb of a murderer, is it rude? If not so, is visiting Yasukuni rude? I think it is within their freedom fo religion.

    As I said I do not support Yasukuni. But I support someone else's right to visit Yasukuni. It is just like you support someone else's right of expression even though you do not support what is expressed by them.

  • 3

    destinystring

    Imagine a kind of Yasukuni Shrine in Germany. The outcry would be massive. It is not about fallen soldiers/wardead but about how a country looks at its own war crimes. We here in Germany face one question : is the current generation somehow responsible for the German warcrimes ? Difficult for some, but one thing is for sure. Denying the past is wrong. Long I lived in Japan and I know what is taught there in school. What warcrimes ?

  • -2

    Saketown

    Thorny Topic, I'm telling you all there is NO WAY in Japan's Rising Sun Country will they ever remove the names of the Class A B & C War Criminals and every other soul enshrined from the Yasukuni Shrine.

    1. The Shrine is privately funded by the public and not the Government.

    2. It's against the Japanese Constitution for their government to interfere in religious shrines and monuments such as Yasukuni.

    3. It's a violation of Shinto belief to remove a Kami (spirit) from a Shinto Shrine once the name has been placed in the shrine.

    My J-Wife and I were married at a Shinto Shrine in Nagoya and our names were placed in the shrine - never to be removed even after our mortal deaths.

    That just Shinto Law and Shinto Belief - The Core of the Japanese Culture.

  • -1

    Fadamor

    Tear the thing down for christ's sake

    I'm sure a believer in Christ would love for ALL the "heathen" Shinto shrines to be torn down. Less competition that way.

    The shrine should not be torn down because of some whining reporters.

    The shrine is there to record the names of people who served the Emperor with distinction. Yes, people who were classified as war criminals (some justly, some unjustly) are entered into the rolls, but ANYBODY who served the Emperor with distinction is there, not just soldiers. We may not like that war criminals are listed there, but what they did WAS in service to the Emperor so they have just as much right to be listed as others. There are 2,466,532 names in the rolls of the shrine. Of those, only 1,068 names belong to people convicted of war crimes after WWII. Of THOSE 1,068, only 14 names belong to people convicted as Class "A" (i.e. Crimes against Humanity) war criminals. It's ridiculous to call for the shutdown of a shrine based on only 0.04% of the people enshrined there.

    What CAN be torn down is the shrine's "war museum". Stick with the kami rolls and drop the history lessons that appear to be revisionist.

  • -5

    Mitsuo Matsuyama

    The more those guys talk about this Shrine, the more I want to visit this shrine.

    Serious, I dont see any problem on visiting this shrine.

    If such Shrine has 14 class A war criminals, so the same occur with others shrines and cementeries around the world.

    Every single cementery were buried good souls and bad souls as well. Just because of the bad ones, should I ignore the good ones?

    Get rid of this jealous feelings and think about the future.

  • 3

    sf2k

    Japan needs to get a new list. You can't pray for the victims in the presence of criminals by picking and choosing your morals on a menu. Also note that Japan nor anyone can control spirits. You just can't.

    End decades of nonsense and turmoil for once rather than continuing every issue without resolution. Find another shrine. It's just a shrine. There are no cemetery remains. It's basically a fancy booth.

    Sigh. These visits will continue to be Japan's undoing and shackle it to the war forever. I guess I'll be reading about it forever too and the apologists who are still at the menu.

  • 0

    Fadamor

    Japan needs to get a new list. You can't pray for the victims in the presence of criminals by picking and choosing your morals on a menu. Also note that Japan nor anyone can control spirits. You just can't.

    Some of those supposed "criminals" were actually victims. I know of at least one General (Tomoyuki Yamashita) who was tried, convicted, and executed as a Class "A" war criminal when a small unit ostensibly under his command participated the Manila massacre. The actual criminals had died later in the war (the naval rear admiral who had taken over occupation of Manila committed suicide when it was obvious his troops would fall) so the Allies were denied the chance to kill them after a trial, but SOMEBODY was going to die for the massacre, by God! If they couldn't try the actual perpetrators, they would try one of the perpetrators' commanding officers. Despite evidence backing up the General's stance that he had ordered all units to depart Manila except for a small security force of 3,750 and had not authorized the massacre AND despite the fact that a rear admiral re-occupied Manila with 16,000 of the rear admiral's sailors and incorporated the security force into his command prior to the massacre, the Tribunal declared that Gen. Yamashita was responsible for the actions of his troops (generally true now, though a radical idea at the time), and therefore must face the same punishment his troops would have if they had lived (not true even now).

    Yeah. I'm American and even I can see how hugely f@*#ed-up this tribunal was. So the next time you start ranting about the "victims" and the "criminals", look a little deeper into the facts. The fact is, some were convicted who shouldn't have, and some were not brought to trial who SHOULD have because it wasn't politically expedient to try the Emperor for the crimes committed by his officers, even though the Emperor was the prime candidate for Class "A" war criminal status for authorizing the war against the Allies. Politics determined who went to trial and who didn't, not actual guilt.

  • 3

    sfjp330

    These politicians who insist that they are only paying tribute to those who died for their country when they visit Yasukuni are not telling the truth. If that’s all they wanted to do, they could walk five minutes down to Chidorigafuchi National Cemetery. Emperor Hirohito stopped visiting Yasukuni after 1978 because the shrine had been tainted by the presence of the Class A war criminals. His son, current Emperor Akihito, has maintained the imperial embargo on visits. Yasukuni is not about dignified homage, it is about scoring political points and drawing attention to revisionist history. The only thing that Japan’s modern reactionaries regret about the war is defeat, and they are still fighting an uphill battle against Japanese public opinion to justify wartime Japan’s “noble mission.” No amount of sanitizing will change that. The only way to end the controversy is to impose a moratorium on visits to Yasukuni by any serving Cabinet minister. If Abe is truly looking for a new beginning for Japan’s relations with its neighbors, that’s where he should start.

  • -2

    OssanAmerica

    sfjp330Oct. 19, 2013 - 03:54AM JST These politicians who insist that they are only paying tribute to those who died for their country when they visit Yasukuni are not telling the truth. If that’s all they wanted to do, they could walk five minutes down to Chidorigafuchi National Cemetery. Emperor Hirohito stopped visiting Yasukuni after 1978 because the shrine had been tainted by the presence of the Class A war criminals.

    His son, current Emperor Akihito, has maintained the imperial embargo on visits. Yasukuni is not about dignified >homage, it is about scoring political points and drawing attention to revisionist history.

    What "revisionist history" is that? Where can I see this? In the Shrine? Because it's sure not in the Museum.

    The only thing that Japan’s modern reactionaries regret about the war is defeat, and they are still fighting an uphill >battle against Japanese public opinion to justify wartime Japan’s “noble mission.” No amount of sanitizing will change >that.

    Japan's modern reactionaries? How may are there? A few hundred? A few thousand? And are they a threat to peace in the region?

    The only way to end the controversy is to impose a moratorium on visits to Yasukuni by any serving Cabinet minister. >If Abe is truly looking for a new beginning for Japan’s relations with its neighbors, that’s where he should start.

    Well considering that the Shrine is located in Japan, that these are Japanese politicians, that there are no laws prohibiting them or any of he public from visiting the shrine, that their visiting the shrine causes no physical harm to people or property, and that apart from China and Korea nobody on the planet cares whether they visit or not, I don't see that happening.

    Fadamor's comments are very true but well over the heads of the J-bashers as it has no role in their agenda.

  • 0

    Chamkun

    ControlFreak

    You said Class C. is there any class C? If any? who was that? The issue is if Korea and China did not produce the issue for the issue and let the past rest based on San Francisco peace treaty. The world would have been quiet. The last 68 year, Japan has had no aggression. Their bringing back the old bad blood is a problem based on their political purposes. Japan would not have said anything include me.Japan accepted once and many people accepted so many wrong accusations. But if now China and Korea bring up war criminal issue, I must say there is no war criminals technically. The law was established after the war had been finished. How people could be jugged by the laws which did not exist when the actions were made.

    Also according to the International law, the amnesty provision for international law, the 2nd article of the Westfalia peace treaty in 1648 which made the 30 year war end.It has been specified "There shall be permanent oblivion, a pardon, or acquittal between hostilities countries" about all the things performed in the form of violence, hostile activities.Thus, the amnesty provision based on the soul of "complete oblivion" which passes all in water, It is needed in order to calm hatred between the states agitated by war and to restore peace, It is incorporated in many peace treaties concluded during the 19th century from the 17th century.Based on the custom of the above, before World War II, Even if an amnesty provision is not installed into a peace treaty, that effectuation itself of a peace treaty has the amnesty effect an international treaty.

    The based on the these reason, after the SF treaty, there is no war criminal in Japan theoretically and as an actual proof, Korea and China should pay their attention to the last last 68 years. In stead of keep bringing back their weapon called history.I do not want to repeat any bad history.

    There are many Koreans and Chinese at Yasukuni as well. Also, Japan and Korea did not have a war. President Park's father was a high ranking officer of Japanese military.

  • -1

    4649Julian

    *ControlFreak 1068 murderous raping barbarians

    Be careful what you say on the media. There are not.

  • 2

    sf2k

    it's basically a guest list. Just take them off the list. Maybe the Emperor will return to the shrine. As long as Japan cannot face its hypocrisy it shall remain forever burdened by it.

    It doesn't have to be this way, and that's why I feel sorry for the Japanese people for having to put up with this never ending and unnecessary debacle.

  • -1

    federale

    There is very little revisionism at the Yasukuni Shrine museum. In fact it has no information on recently discovered evidence that Roosevelt sought to provoke war with Japan. Nothing about how the Japanese naval and diplomatic codes were broken by cryptologists and discovered the Japanese war plans as well as the location of the attacking Japanese fleet, nothing about the plan to send a U.S. naval vessel from the Philippines into Japanese home waters to provoke an attack, etc.

  • -4

    nigelboy

    Japan needs to get a new list. You can't pray for the victims in the presence of criminals by picking and choosing your morals on a menu. Also note that Japan nor anyone can control spirits. You just can't.

    I always wondered about this. If you personally don't believe in it, why do you bother yourself protesting and having angiuush over it?? It's almost like those nuts you see on city streets preaching randomly to passerbys that "Jesus Christ is your only savior!!! You're all doomed!!"

  • 1

    bannedacctsam

    I guess any chance of a trilateral summit between Xi,Abe, and Park is absolutely off the table.

    What a shame.

    China and Japan share atleast two thousand years of cultural and economic exhange - yet two countries can't set aside their egos for the sake of mutual prosperity.

    What a DAMN shame!

  • 1

    Mitch Cohen

    It was a private visit you see.. imagine their surprise when they ran into the other 159 Diet members.. "Oh, you're here today too? Hey look the cameraman's here too, what gives?"

    It was a political move, carefully planned and carried out with media being aware days before, with the only purpose being to score a political point.

    They chose to visit Yasukuni BECAUSE it is controversial. If somehow Yasukuni was unopposed by neighbouring countries but some other place was, they'd be at that place and not Yasukuni.

  • 1

    WilliB

    Shame on them. If they are trying to match the mainland Chinese government in its aggressive nationalist policy, they are doing a good job.

    None of them should go to Yasukuni, until that shrine separates itself from the political message presented there under the guise of "religion".

    Japan has a perfectly good national monunent to honor the war dead in Chidorigafuji; they can go there, and nobody could complain about that.

  • -2

    OssanAmerica

    bannedacctsamOct. 19, 2013 - 12:16PM JST I guess any chance of a trilateral summit between Xi,Abe, and Park is absolutely off the table. What a shame. China and Japan share atleast two thousand years of cultural and economic exhange - yet two countries can't set >aside their egos for the sake of mutual prosperity. What a DAMN shame!

    Japan and South Korea settled all pre-1945 matters in 1965. China and Japan settled them in 1972 and even reaffirmed them again in 1978. Both South Korea and China got apologies and money. Yet these two countries ignore these facts and act like they never happened. What a DAMN shame! Shame on China and South Korea! Would you remain friends with someone who did this to you personally? Think about it.

  • 1

    papasmurfinjapan

    They chose to visit Yasukuni BECAUSE it is controversial. If somehow Yasukuni was unopposed by neighbouring countries but some other place was, they'd be at that place and not Yasukuni.

    I think you're (unfortunately) probably right on the ball there.

  • -2

    CH3CHO

    Mitch CohenOct. 19, 2013 - 01:49PM JST

    They chose to visit Yasukuni BECAUSE it is controversial. If somehow Yasukuni was unopposed by neighbouring countries but some other place was, they'd be at that place and not Yasukuni.

    Your point is wide off the mark. Korea and China started campaigning against Yasukuni around 1980's. Even before that many politicians regularly visited Yasukuni.

  • 0

    smithinjapan

    Mitsuo: "The more those guys talk about this Shrine, the more I want to visit this shrine."

    So again, it's less about wanting to honor the dead than it is about the politics. THAT is the problem.

  • -1

    SpeaklikeGandhi

    "I mourned people who lost their lives in wars and prayed for peace", said Shindo. I do not see it anything wrong for anyone to visit Ysukuni Shrine. It seems to me very strange that nobody asks the U.S. to apologize for the drops of bombs to Japan that killed 200,000, instead of discussing on this matter every year.

  • -1

    toshiko

    @sighclop wrote Tear the thing down for christ's sake: ......................... It is a private property. Are you planning to tear down?

    I have feeling that Japanese politicians are instigating China and S. Korea to attack Japan so that Japan can attack back with that upgrading of weapons Japan will get next year/ Japan can't begin war so one way to have war is to be attacked. USA? It will abandon Kprea. Just my guess/

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